Just got a new dishwasher (Kenmore model 665.13834) and I'm having
trouble with the water hookup. I bought the required elbow that goes
between the water supply line and the water inlet valve. I just CANNOT
get it to not leak. I think I've finally gotten it to stop dripping
from the supply-side of the joint with the use of some teflon tape, but
I can't seem to stop the leak from the valve side.

Here's a picture of the assembly (the dishwasher is turned on its side
to expose the bottom):

http://home.comcast.net/~esionder/temp/dishwasher1.jpg

I've tried two different elbows. I've tried it with and without teflon
pipe tape. I've run out of ideas. Does anyone have any other tricks for
making water-tight connections in this kind of situation?

Nil wrote:
....
http://home.comcast.net/~esionder/temp/dishwasher1.jpg

I've tried two different elbows. I've tried it with and without teflon
pipe tape. I've run out of ideas. Does anyone have any other tricks for
making water-tight connections in this kind of situation?

Doesn't appear the elbow is screwed into the fitting very far -- what
are you using for a wrench and how much are you tightening the fitting?

Should tighten right up.

How many wraps of teflon? I'm old fashioned but I still like plumbers
dope although the teflon should do the trick.

Only reason otherwise would perhaps be oversized or poorly cut threads
on the valve; I've seen quite a lot of Chinese fittings w/ very poor
tolerances. If you're tightening w/ (say) 10" wrench and putting a good
pull and have 5-6 wraps of teflon and it still doesn't hold, ask for a
replacement valve assembly.

--


--

Nil writes:
Just got a new dishwasher (Kenmore model 665.13834) and I'm having
trouble with the water hookup. I bought the required elbow that goes
between the water supply line and the water inlet valve. I just CANNOT
get it to not leak. I think I've finally gotten it to stop dripping
from the supply-side of the joint with the use of some teflon tape, but
I can't seem to stop the leak from the valve side.

Here's a picture of the assembly (the dishwasher is turned on its side
to expose the bottom):

http://home.comcast.net/~esionder/temp/dishwasher1.jpg

I've tried two different elbows. I've tried it with and without teflon
pipe tape. I've run out of ideas. Does anyone have any other tricks for
making water-tight connections in this kind of situation?

First, take a look inside the female threaded end on the flex water
line. I'll bet that there is a rubber gasket in there. If so, you
should *not* use Teflon tape on that connection. The rubber seals
between the end of the water line and the elbow, while the nut simply
holds the joint together under pressure. You don't need Teflon tape
between the nut and the elbow, since water shouldn't ever reach the nut.
(But using Teflon tape can make it difficult to tighten the nut enough,
leaving the rubber gasket uncompressed, and allowing water to leak
between the hose and the nut).

On the other hand, the elbow to water valve connection is metal to
metal, and should have Teflon tape. It doesn't look like you've screwed
the elbow in very tight. You should tighten hand tight and then another
turn or two with a wrench. When you're done, half or more of the width
of the original Teflon tape is usually hidden inside the connection. In
the photo, assuming normal half-inch wide tape, it looks like almost the
entire width of the tape is still outside the joint.

Dave

On 28 Jul 2008, dpb wrote in alt.home.repair:

http://home.comcast.net/~esionder/temp/dishwasher1.jpg

Doesn't appear the elbow is screwed into the fitting very far --
what are you using for a wrench and how much are you tightening
the fitting?

Should tighten right up.

You're right, it's not in very far, maybe 1/3 or 1/2 the way. But
that's as far in as it goes, and it's about as tight as I dare.

How many wraps of teflon? I'm old fashioned but I still like
plumbers dope although the teflon should do the trick.

I've tried it several times with 1 - 3 wraps. I think it's got about
two on it right now.

Only reason otherwise would perhaps be oversized or poorly cut
threads on the valve; I've seen quite a lot of Chinese fittings w/
very poor tolerances. If you're tightening w/ (say) 10" wrench
and putting a good pull and have 5-6 wraps of teflon and it still
doesn't hold, ask for a replacement valve assembly.

Maybe I'll try a few more wraps of teflon. Then maybe I'll take the
valve to the hardware store and see if I fan find yet another elbow
that fits better. If all else fails I'll call Sears, but based on a
recent experience, finding someone there who knows what they're talking
about and is willing to help me by swapping a part is an unlikely
scenario.

On 28 Jul 2008, (Dave Martindale) wrote in
alt.home.repair:

http://home.comcast.net/~esionder/temp/dishwasher1.jpg

First, take a look inside the female threaded end on the flex
water line. I'll bet that there is a rubber gasket in there. If
so, you should *not* use Teflon tape on that connection. The
rubber seals between the end of the water line and the elbow,
while the nut simply holds the joint together under pressure. You
don't need Teflon tape between the nut and the elbow, since water
shouldn't ever reach the nut. (But using Teflon tape can make it
difficult to tighten the nut enough, leaving the rubber gasket
uncompressed, and allowing water to leak between the hose and the
nut).

I tried it without the teflon, and it was leaking. I understand that it
shouldn't be necessary, but I was careful to not cover the tip of the
tube where the rubber gasket would hit. It seems to be watertight, so
I'll leave it alone.

It's possible that the leak was from the valve side all along. It was
hard to see what was happening when the unit was in its upright
position.

On the other hand, the elbow to water valve connection is metal to
metal, and should have Teflon tape. It doesn't look like you've
screwed the elbow in very tight. You should tighten hand tight
and then another turn or two with a wrench. When you're done,
half or more of the width of the original Teflon tape is usually
hidden inside the connection. In the photo, assuming normal
half-inch wide tape, it looks like almost the entire width of the
tape is still outside the joint.

It's already screwed in quite tight, maybe 3/4 to not-quite-one full
turn after finger tightening. I was afraid the brass might crack if I
tightened it more. Is that a valid concern? Or can brass stand that
kind of stress?

Nil wrote:
....
It's already screwed in quite tight, maybe 3/4 to not-quite-one full
turn after finger tightening. I was afraid the brass might crack if I
tightened it more. Is that a valid concern? Or can brass stand that
kind of stress?

Unless it's terribly _tight_ as opposed to loose tolerances, 1 turn
after fingers can't be very tight at all...how much actual torque are
you applying is the key...

Give it another turn and your problems will all go away I'm betting.

--

On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 14:08:02 -0500, Nil wrote:

Just got a new dishwasher (Kenmore model 665.13834) and I'm having trouble
with the water hookup. I bought the required elbow that goes between the
water supply line and the water inlet valve. I just CANNOT get it to not
leak. I think I've finally gotten it to stop dripping from the supply-side
of the joint with the use of some teflon tape, but I can't seem to stop
the leak from the valve side.

Here's a picture of the assembly (the dishwasher is turned on its side to
expose the bottom):

http://home.comcast.net/~esionder/temp/dishwasher1.jpg

I've tried two different elbows. I've tried it with and without teflon
pipe tape. I've run out of ideas. Does anyone have any other tricks for
making water-tight connections in this kind of situation?

The tape won't stop leaks but rather permit the joint to be tightened
more.

On Jul 28, 1:18*pm, (Dave Martindale) wrote:
Nil writes:
Just got a new dishwasher (Kenmore model 665.13834) and I'm having
trouble with the water hookup. I bought the required elbow that goes
between the water supply line and the water inlet valve. I just CANNOT
get it to not leak. I think I've finally gotten it to stop dripping
from the supply-side of the joint with the use of some teflon tape, but *
I can't seem to stop the leak from the valve side.
Here's a picture of the assembly (the dishwasher is turned on its side
to expose the bottom):
http://home.comcast.net/~esionder/temp/dishwasher1.jpg
I've tried two different elbows. I've tried it with and without teflon
pipe tape. I've run out of ideas. Does anyone have any other tricks for
making water-tight connections in this kind of situation?

First, take a look inside the female threaded end on the flex water
line. *I'll bet that there is a rubber gasket in there. *If so, you
should *not* use Teflon tape on that connection. *The rubber seals
between the end of the water line and the elbow, while the nut simply
holds the joint together under pressure. *You don't need Teflon tape
between the nut and the elbow, since water shouldn't ever reach the nut.
(But using Teflon tape can make it difficult to tighten the nut enough,
leaving the rubber gasket uncompressed, and allowing water to leak
between the hose and the nut).

On the other hand, the elbow to water valve connection is metal to
metal, and should have Teflon tape. *It doesn't look like you've screwed
the elbow in very tight. *You should tighten hand tight and then another
turn or two with a wrench. *When you're done, half or more of the width
of the original Teflon tape is usually hidden inside the connection. *In
the photo, assuming normal half-inch wide tape, it looks like almost the
entire width of the tape is still outside the joint.

* * * * Dave

I'm with Dave, no tape on the hose side. In addition that brass elbow
does not look like the correct elbow to connect to that hose or the
valve.

The hose is a 3/8" compression hose, yes? The elbow should have a
corresponding 3/8" compression end and an NPT end for going into the
DW valve.

When the elbow is not screwed into the DW the portion that does screw
into it should be tapered slightly.
see he
http://images.sector29.com/Large_Ima...AM4572DWSS.jpg
Notice that the end that goes into DW is slightly cone shaped. If
yours is not it is wrong. If you did screw the wrong fitting in you
can usually fix it by getting the right fitting and screwing it in
with no tape to clean things up. Then install with tape.

The end that the hose screws to should look like the right hand side
of this fitting:
http://www.scary-terry.com/ggshooter/comp_fitting.jpg
notice that the brass sleeve on the pipe does the sealing (rubber in
your case).

I think if you get the correct elbow you'll be fine.
check it out before you take a BFW to it and break something.

On Jul 28, 8:01*pm, Limp Arbor wrote:
On Jul 28, 1:18*pm, (Dave Martindale) wrote:



Nil writes:
Just got a new dishwasher (Kenmore model 665.13834) and I'm having
trouble with the water hookup. I bought the required elbow that goes
between the water supply line and the water inlet valve. I just CANNOT
get it to not leak. I think I've finally gotten it to stop dripping
from the supply-side of the joint with the use of some teflon tape, but *
I can't seem to stop the leak from the valve side.
Here's a picture of the assembly (the dishwasher is turned on its side
to expose the bottom):
http://home.comcast.net/~esionder/temp/dishwasher1.jpg
I've tried two different elbows. I've tried it with and without teflon
pipe tape. I've run out of ideas. Does anyone have any other tricks for
making water-tight connections in this kind of situation?

First, take a look inside the female threaded end on the flex water
line. *I'll bet that there is a rubber gasket in there. *If so, you
should *not* use Teflon tape on that connection. *The rubber seals
between the end of the water line and the elbow, while the nut simply
holds the joint together under pressure. *You don't need Teflon tape
between the nut and the elbow, since water shouldn't ever reach the nut..
(But using Teflon tape can make it difficult to tighten the nut enough,
leaving the rubber gasket uncompressed, and allowing water to leak
between the hose and the nut).

On the other hand, the elbow to water valve connection is metal to
metal, and should have Teflon tape. *It doesn't look like you've screwed
the elbow in very tight. *You should tighten hand tight and then another
turn or two with a wrench. *When you're done, half or more of the width
of the original Teflon tape is usually hidden inside the connection. *In
the photo, assuming normal half-inch wide tape, it looks like almost the
entire width of the tape is still outside the joint.

* * * * Dave

I'm with Dave, no tape on the hose side. *In addition that brass elbow
does not look like the correct elbow to connect to that hose or the
valve.

The hose is a 3/8" compression hose, yes? *The elbow should have a
corresponding 3/8" compression end and an NPT end for going into the
DW valve.

When the elbow is not screwed into the DW the portion that does screw
into it should be tapered slightly.
see hehttp://images.sector29.com/Large_Ima...AM4572DWSS.jpg
Notice that the end that goes into DW is slightly cone shaped. *If
yours is not it is wrong. *If you did screw the wrong fitting in you
can usually fix it by getting the right fitting and screwing it in
with no tape to clean things up. *Then install with tape.

The end that the hose screws to should look like the right hand side
of this fitting:http://www.scary-terry.com/ggshooter/comp_fitting.jpg
notice that the brass sleeve on the pipe does the sealing (rubber in
your case).

I think if you get the correct elbow you'll be fine.
check it out before you take a BFW to it and break something.

Good advice above. But I'd skip the Teflon tape (it isn't a sealant)
and use a real sealant like Permatex #3 (at any auto supply store).
Likely the car you're driving right now has some of its vital fluids
confined by this well known sealant. Teflon tape is a great thread
lubricant, so use the right material for the job.

Joe

Nil writes:

On the other hand, the elbow to water valve connection is metal to
metal, and should have Teflon tape. It doesn't look like you've
screwed the elbow in very tight. You should tighten hand tight
and then another turn or two with a wrench. When you're done,
half or more of the width of the original Teflon tape is usually
hidden inside the connection. In the photo, assuming normal
half-inch wide tape, it looks like almost the entire width of the
tape is still outside the joint.

It's already screwed in quite tight, maybe 3/4 to not-quite-one full
turn after finger tightening. I was afraid the brass might crack if I
tightened it more. Is that a valid concern? Or can brass stand that
kind of stress?

You *can* break brass parts if you try hard enough, so don't use a pipe
wrench with an "extension" on it.

However, it looks like very little of the Teflon tape made it inside the
joint. Did you apply the tape so it went all the way out to the end
thread on the elbow, or did you keep it back a ways from the end?
Teflon that you can still see when the joint is screwed together is not
doing you any good.

Another thought: look at the threads on the elbow and inside the
solenoid valve. They should be smooth and clean, cut with a tap or die,
with no obvious discontinuities (except at the thread start and end).
I *have* seen Chinese-made compressed air parts that had die cast
threads, and the mold separation lines still present in the threads
prevented them from ever sealing properly.

Dave

"Nil" wrote in message
...
Just got a new dishwasher (Kenmore model 665.13834) and I'm having
trouble with the water hookup. I bought the required elbow that goes
between the water supply line and the water inlet valve. I just CANNOT
get it to not leak. I think I've finally gotten it to stop dripping
from the supply-side of the joint with the use of some teflon tape, but
I can't seem to stop the leak from the valve side.

Here's a picture of the assembly (the dishwasher is turned on its side
to expose the bottom):

http://home.comcast.net/~esionder/temp/dishwasher1.jpg

I've tried two different elbows. I've tried it with and without teflon
pipe tape. I've run out of ideas. Does anyone have any other tricks for
making water-tight connections in this kind of situation?

Your problem might not be the elbow but the dishwasher itself. Had a
similar problem with a water heater and a couple of valve replacements (with
all the appropriate fixes) did not stop the leak. What stopped the leak was
running down the female heater threads with a thread making tool (senior
moment, can't think of its name) to clean them up and fix any burrs etc..
MLD

"MLD" wrote in message ...

"Nil" wrote in message
...
Just got a new dishwasher (Kenmore model 665.13834) and I'm having
trouble with the water hookup. I bought the required elbow that goes
between the water supply line and the water inlet valve. I just CANNOT
get it to not leak. I think I've finally gotten it to stop dripping
from the supply-side of the joint with the use of some teflon tape, but
I can't seem to stop the leak from the valve side.

Here's a picture of the assembly (the dishwasher is turned on its side
to expose the bottom):

http://home.comcast.net/~esionder/temp/dishwasher1.jpg

I've tried two different elbows. I've tried it with and without teflon
pipe tape. I've run out of ideas. Does anyone have any other tricks for
making water-tight connections in this kind of situation?

Your problem might not be the elbow but the dishwasher itself. Had a
similar problem with a water heater and a couple of valve replacements
(with all the appropriate fixes) did not stop the leak. What stopped the
leak was running down the female heater threads with a thread making tool
(senior moment, can't think of its name) to clean them up and fix any
burrs etc..
MLD

die, as in the other part of a tap and die set

On Jul 29, 12:08*pm, "charlie"
wrote:
"MLD" wrote in ...

"Nil" wrote in message
...
Just got a new dishwasher (Kenmore model 665.13834) and I'm having
trouble with the water hookup. I bought the required elbow that goes
between the water supply line and the water inlet valve. I just CANNOT
get it to not leak. I think I've finally gotten it to stop dripping
from the supply-side of the joint with the use of some teflon tape, but
I can't seem to stop the leak from the valve side.

Here's a picture of the assembly (the dishwasher is turned on its side
to expose the bottom):

http://home.comcast.net/~esionder/temp/dishwasher1.jpg

I've tried two different elbows. I've tried it with and without teflon
pipe tape. I've run out of ideas. Does anyone have any other tricks for
making water-tight connections in this kind of situation?

Your *problem might not be the elbow but the dishwasher itself. *Had a
similar problem with a water heater and a couple of valve replacements
(with all the appropriate fixes) did not stop the leak. *What stopped the
leak was running down the female heater threads with a thread making tool
(senior moment, can't think of its name) to clean them up and fix any
burrs etc..
MLD

die, as in the other part of a tap and die set

Female threads...he used a tap, right?

Joe

Joe

"Joe" wrote in message
...
On Jul 29, 12:08 pm, "charlie"
wrote:
"MLD" wrote in ...

"Nil" wrote in message
...
Just got a new dishwasher (Kenmore model 665.13834) and I'm having
trouble with the water hookup. I bought the required elbow that goes
between the water supply line and the water inlet valve. I just CANNOT
get it to not leak. I think I've finally gotten it to stop dripping
from the supply-side of the joint with the use of some teflon tape, but
I can't seem to stop the leak from the valve side.

Here's a picture of the assembly (the dishwasher is turned on its side
to expose the bottom):

http://home.comcast.net/~esionder/temp/dishwasher1.jpg

I've tried two different elbows. I've tried it with and without teflon
pipe tape. I've run out of ideas. Does anyone have any other tricks for
making water-tight connections in this kind of situation?

Your problem might not be the elbow but the dishwasher itself. Had a
similar problem with a water heater and a couple of valve replacements
(with all the appropriate fixes) did not stop the leak. What stopped the
leak was running down the female heater threads with a thread making
tool
(senior moment, can't think of its name) to clean them up and fix any
burrs etc..
MLD

die, as in the other part of a tap and die set

Female threads...he used a tap, right?

Joe
--
duh, yes.

On 28 Jul 2008, dpb wrote in alt.home.repair:

Unless it's terribly _tight_ as opposed to loose tolerances, 1
turn after fingers can't be very tight at all...how much actual
torque are you applying is the key...

Give it another turn and your problems will all go away I'm
betting.

Well, you were right. I had tightened it quite a lot, so I thought, but
I forced it another turn... and it's been holding perfectly dry now for
almost two days. I could probably have turned it even a little farther,
but I was afraid that it would end pointing in a direction that would
have made impossible to attach the water supply.

So, I was being a wuss. I guess I just needed to assert my masculinity,
and I now feel more aggressive and hairier. Thanks!

Group hug!

On 28 Jul 2008, Limp Arbor wrote in
alt.home.repair:

I'm with Dave, no tape on the hose side.

I took the tape off the water supply hose side and it's still good and
dry.

When the elbow is not screwed into the DW the portion that does
screw into it should be tapered slightly.
see he
http://images.sector29.com/Large_Ima...AM4572DWSS.jpg
Notice that the end that goes into DW is slightly cone shaped. If
yours is not it is wrong.

I have two elbow fittings. The one that's in there now I bought when I
thought I was going to use 3/8" copper tube and a compression fitting.
I changed my mind and bought a flexible braided tube kit, so I could
more easily work on the unit with it pulled away from the cabinet. That
kit came with an elbow.

Now that you mention it, the kit elbow DOES look slightly tapered,
although maybe not as much as the one in the picture. The other elbow
is now installed and is screwed in hard and is not leaking, so I'm not
going to mess with it any more. I don't know if it was tapered. But
maybe this is a clue:

The installation book calls for a "90-degree elbow with 3/8" N.P.T.
external threads." The elbow I bought at the hardware store was labeled
"MPT". I asked the guy in the store if they were equivalent, and he
said they were. Are they? Does NPT == MPT?

I think if you get the correct elbow you'll be fine.
check it out before you take a BFW to it and break something.

Big F-n' Wrench?

All seems well - I've got the dishwasher hooked up and have run a few
loads. Everything is dry and seems solid. Thanks for your help.

Thanks to everybody for your helpful advice. In the end it seems that I
was too gentle with the fittings and just needed to screw them together
much harder. Everything is now together and working and DRY.

Another learning experience.


On 28 Jul 2008, Nil wrote in
alt.home.repair:

Just got a new dishwasher (Kenmore model 665.13834) and I'm having
trouble with the water hookup. I bought the required elbow that
goes between the water supply line and the water inlet valve. I
just CANNOT get it to not leak. I think I've finally gotten it to
stop dripping from the supply-side of the joint with the use of
some teflon tape, but I can't seem to stop the leak from the
valve side.

Here's a picture of the assembly (the dishwasher is turned on its
side to expose the bottom):

http://home.comcast.net/~esionder/temp/dishwasher1.jpg

I've tried two different elbows. I've tried it with and without
teflon pipe tape. I've run out of ideas. Does anyone have any
other tricks for making water-tight connections in this kind of
situation?

On Jul 30, 3:00*pm, Nil wrote:

I have two elbow fittings. The one that's in there now I bought when I
thought I was going to use 3/8" copper tube and a compression fitting.
I changed my mind and bought a flexible braided tube kit, so I could
more easily work on the unit with it pulled away from the cabinet. That
kit came with an elbow.

Now that you mention it, the kit elbow DOES look slightly tapered,
although maybe not as much as the one in the picture. The other elbow
is now installed and is screwed in hard and is not leaking, so I'm not
going to mess with it any more. I don't know if it was tapered. But
maybe this is a clue:

The installation book calls for a "90-degree elbow with 3/8" N.P.T.
external threads." The elbow I bought at the hardware store was labeled
"MPT". I asked the guy in the store if they were equivalent, and he
said they were. Are they? Does NPT == MPT?

Two common pipe thread sizes exist, the tapered National Pipe Thread
(NPT) and the straight National Standard Free-Fitting Straight
Mechanical Pipe Thread (NPSM). The tapered threads are for joining and
sealing, the straight threads are only for joining. The Dry-seal
thread (NPTF) allows for joining without sealants. Three less common
threads exist, the Garden Hose Thread (GHT), Fire Hose Coupling (NST)
and British Standard Taper Pipe Thread (BSPT). The NPT and NPTF
threads are interchangeable with sealants such as PTFE tape. None of
the other thread standards are interchangeable. Female NPT threads can
be designated as "FPT" and male NPT threads can be designated as
"MPT."

from he
http://www.plumbingsupply.com/pipethreadsizing.html


I think if you get the correct elbow you'll be fine.
check it out before you take a BFW to it and break something.

Big F-n' Wrench?

Yes. Most things can be fixed with:

WD40 - loosens
a BFW - tightens
a BFH - adjusts
duct tape - does everything else


All seems well - I've got the dishwasher hooked up and have run a few
loads. Everything is dry and seems solid. Thanks for your help.

Glad to hear all worked out.

Nil wrote:
On 28 Jul 2008, dpb wrote in alt.home.repair:

Unless it's terribly _tight_ as opposed to loose tolerances, 1
turn after fingers can't be very tight at all...how much actual
torque are you applying is the key...

Give it another turn and your problems will all go away I'm
betting.

Well, you were right. I had tightened it quite a lot, so I thought,
but I forced it another turn... and it's been holding perfectly dry
now for almost two days. I could probably have turned it even a
little farther, but I was afraid that it would end pointing in a
direction that would have made impossible to attach the water
supply.

So, I was being a wuss. I guess I just needed to assert my
masculinity, and I now feel more aggressive and hairier. Thanks!

This is a not uncommon problem. I used to teach a PC hardware class
in which one of the exercises was to install RAM. The women in the
class always did better at it than the men because the women weren't
afraid to put their weight on it when seating the SIMMs.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Limp Arbor wrote:
On Jul 30, 3:00 pm, Nil wrote:

I have two elbow fittings. The one that's in there now I bought
when
I thought I was going to use 3/8" copper tube and a compression
fitting. I changed my mind and bought a flexible braided tube kit,
so I could more easily work on the unit with it pulled away from
the
cabinet. That kit came with an elbow.

Now that you mention it, the kit elbow DOES look slightly tapered,
although maybe not as much as the one in the picture. The other
elbow
is now installed and is screwed in hard and is not leaking, so I'm
not going to mess with it any more. I don't know if it was tapered.
But maybe this is a clue:

The installation book calls for a "90-degree elbow with 3/8" N.P.T.
external threads." The elbow I bought at the hardware store was
labeled "MPT". I asked the guy in the store if they were
equivalent,
and he said they were. Are they? Does NPT == MPT?

Two common pipe thread sizes exist, the tapered National Pipe Thread
(NPT) and the straight National Standard Free-Fitting Straight
Mechanical Pipe Thread (NPSM). The tapered threads are for joining
and
sealing, the straight threads are only for joining. The Dry-seal
thread (NPTF) allows for joining without sealants. Three less common
threads exist, the Garden Hose Thread (GHT), Fire Hose Coupling
(NST)
and British Standard Taper Pipe Thread (BSPT). The NPT and NPTF
threads are interchangeable with sealants such as PTFE tape. None of
the other thread standards are interchangeable. Female NPT threads
can
be designated as "FPT" and male NPT threads can be designated as
"MPT."

from he
http://www.plumbingsupply.com/pipethreadsizing.html


I think if you get the correct elbow you'll be fine.
check it out before you take a BFW to it and break something.

Big F-n' Wrench?

Yes. Most things can be fixed with:

WD40 - loosens
a BFW - tightens
a BFH - adjusts
duct tape - does everything else

You forgot the gray paint. Covers damage from the BFW and the BFH,
and if you put enough on maybe it will hold together until you get
transferred.

All seems well - I've got the dishwasher hooked up and have run a
few
loads. Everything is dry and seems solid. Thanks for your help.

Glad to hear all worked out.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Nil writes:

The installation book calls for a "90-degree elbow with 3/8" N.P.T.
external threads." The elbow I bought at the hardware store was labeled
"MPT". I asked the guy in the store if they were equivalent, and he
said they were. Are they? Does NPT == MPT?

Close enough. NPT is National Pipe thread, Tapered, or something very
close. (There's also NPS, same dimensions but Straight instead of
tapered). The "M" in "MPT" means "male", so you'd expect the full
acronym to be "MNPT". But somebody shortened it to "MPT"; dunno why.

Dave

I think if you get the correct elbow you'll be fine.
check it out before you take a BFW to it and break something.

Big F-n' Wrench?

I expect so. It's closely related to the BFH needed for breaking
concrete.

Dave

ana had written this in response to
http://www.thestuccocompany.com/main...ak-321845-.htm
:
Nill,
I know it's been a while since this posting but I'm wondering if you got
this fixed and how. I am now having the same problem. I have tighten both
ends as much as they go without breaking and I still have a leak on the
water supply hose side.

Thanks
ana
-------------------------------------
Napoleon Blownapart wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 14:08:02 -0500, Nil wrote:

Just got a new dishwasher (Kenmore model 665.13834) and I'm having
trouble
with the water hookup. I bought the required elbow that goes
between the
water supply line and the water inlet valve. I just CANNOT get it
to not
leak. I think I've finally gotten it to stop dripping from the
supply-side
of the joint with the use of some teflon tape, but I can't seem to
stop
the leak from the valve side.

Here's a picture of the assembly (the dishwasher is turned on its
side to
expose the bottom):

http://home.comcast.net/~esionder/temp/dishwasher1.jpg

I've tried two different elbows. I've tried it with and without
teflon
pipe tape. I've run out of ideas. Does anyone have any other
tricks for
making water-tight connections in this kind of situation?

The tape won't stop leaks but rather permit the joint to be tightened
more.






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##-----------------------------------------------##

(ana) wrote in
:

ana had written this in response to
http://www.thestuccocompany.com/main...-hookup-leak-3
21845-.htm
:
Nill,
I know it's been a while since this posting but I'm wondering if you
got this fixed and how. I am now having the same problem. I have
tighten both ends as much as they go without breaking and I still have
a leak on the water supply hose side.

Thanks
ana
-------------------------------------
Napoleon Blownapart wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 14:08:02 -0500, Nil wrote:

Just got a new dishwasher (Kenmore model 665.13834) and I'm having
trouble
with the water hookup. I bought the required elbow that goes
between the
water supply line and the water inlet valve. I just CANNOT get it
to not
leak. I think I've finally gotten it to stop dripping from the
supply-side
of the joint with the use of some teflon tape, but I can't seem to
stop
the leak from the valve side.

Here's a picture of the assembly (the dishwasher is turned on its
side to
expose the bottom):

http://home.comcast.net/~esionder/temp/dishwasher1.jpg

I've tried two different elbows. I've tried it with and without
teflon
pipe tape. I've run out of ideas. Does anyone have any other
tricks for
making water-tight connections in this kind of situation?

The tape won't stop leaks but rather permit the joint to be tightened
more.






##-----------------------------------------------##
Delivered via http://www.thestuccocompany.com/
Building Construction and Maintenance Forum
Web and RSS access to your favorite newsgroup -
alt.home.repair - 348447 messages and counting!
##-----------------------------------------------##


I have
tighten both ends as much as they go without breaking

Whatever seals, washers, compression washers, etc are there are probably
destroyed. I'm no plumber and in fact have a lot of nads using the word.
But after years of doing the common DIY'r plumbing mistake of
overtightening, it finally sunk in. Many plumbing seals, once
overtightened, are NG.

It's like cutting lumber. You can always cut it shorter - cut longer.
You can always make it tighter - under tighten.

Tighten a fitting until you can feel the sealing surface make contact
then just 1 nut facet (usually 1/6 turn) more...no not 1-1/2 and not 2.
Don't even try to get it on the first try. Turn on supply, Plan on it
leaking/dripping. If it doesn't leak DON'T snug it just for a good
feeling. If it leaks then tighten it 1 more facet. Repeat until it
stops. I'll often put a piece of paper towel under the fitting
overnight for a warm fuzzy.

If this doesn't work then something is wrong with the seating surfaces.

The teflon tape is correct for what you're doing or you can use pipe
dope. Make sure to get the one for water lines.
http://finehomebuilding.taunton.com/...he-difference-
joint-sealing-with-teflon-tape-and-pipe-dope

Compression fittings: Read the package. It will often say how much to
tighten after contact. Do it just like it says. No more, no less. You can
always tighten a hair if it leaks. These ESPECIALLY cannot be loosened and
retightened.

PVC sink drain slip joint nuts. Don't even bring a pair of pliers under the
sink. You might as well beat the whole damn thing with a brick before
assembling. Hand tighten only. That's why many of them have a
tab/wing...for your finger(s) to grip. Undertighten is safe. You can always
make it tighter

Just my experience. A real plumber would go broke using this approach.

Red...

Red Green wrote in
:

(ana) wrote in
:

ana had written this in response to
http://www.thestuccocompany.com/main...r-hookup-leak-
3 21845-.htm
:
Nill,
I know it's been a while since this posting but I'm wondering if you
got this fixed and how. I am now having the same problem. I have
tighten both ends as much as they go without breaking and I still
have a leak on the water supply hose side.

Thanks
ana
-------------------------------------
Napoleon Blownapart wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 14:08:02 -0500, Nil wrote:

Just got a new dishwasher (Kenmore model 665.13834) and I'm having
trouble
with the water hookup. I bought the required elbow that goes
between the
water supply line and the water inlet valve. I just CANNOT get it
to not
leak. I think I've finally gotten it to stop dripping from the
supply-side
of the joint with the use of some teflon tape, but I can't seem to
stop
the leak from the valve side.

Here's a picture of the assembly (the dishwasher is turned on its
side to
expose the bottom):

http://home.comcast.net/~esionder/temp/dishwasher1.jpg

I've tried two different elbows. I've tried it with and without
teflon
pipe tape. I've run out of ideas. Does anyone have any other
tricks for
making water-tight connections in this kind of situation?

The tape won't stop leaks but rather permit the joint to be
tightened more.






##-----------------------------------------------##
Delivered via http://www.thestuccocompany.com/
Building Construction and Maintenance Forum
Web and RSS access to your favorite newsgroup -
alt.home.repair - 348447 messages and counting!
##-----------------------------------------------##


I have
tighten both ends as much as they go without breaking

Whatever seals, washers, compression washers, etc are there are
probably destroyed. I'm no plumber and in fact have a lot of nads
using the word. But after years of doing the common DIY'r plumbing
mistake of overtightening, it finally sunk in. Many plumbing seals,
once overtightened, are NG.

It's like cutting lumber. You can always cut it shorter - cut longer.
You can always make it tighter - under tighten.

Tighten a fitting until you can feel the sealing surface make contact
then just 1 nut facet (usually 1/6 turn) more...no not 1-1/2 and not
2. Don't even try to get it on the first try. Turn on supply, Plan on
it leaking/dripping. If it doesn't leak DON'T snug it just for a good
feeling. If it leaks then tighten it 1 more facet. Repeat until it
stops. I'll often put a piece of paper towel under the fitting
overnight for a warm fuzzy.

If this doesn't work then something is wrong with the seating
surfaces.

The teflon tape is correct for what you're doing or you can use pipe
dope. Make sure to get the one for water lines.
http://finehomebuilding.taunton.com/...ats-the-differ
ence-
joint-sealing-with-teflon-tape-and-pipe-dope

Compression fittings: Read the package. It will often say how much to
tighten after contact. Do it just like it says. No more, no less. You
can always tighten a hair if it leaks. These ESPECIALLY cannot be
loosened and retightened.

PVC sink drain slip joint nuts. Don't even bring a pair of pliers
under the sink. You might as well beat the whole damn thing with a
brick before assembling. Hand tighten only. That's why many of them
have a tab/wing...for your finger(s) to grip. Undertighten is safe.
You can always make it tighter

Just my experience. A real plumber would go broke using this approach.

Red...


p.s. Read the Comment at the bottom. It ends with:

i occasionally had tightened teflon joints to the point of
distortion and was unable to make them stop leaking. never
had that problem with Pipe Dope.

http://finehomebuilding.taunton.com/...-and-pipe-dope

ana wrote:
ana had written this in response to
http://www.thestuccocompany.com/main...ak-321845-.htm
:
Nill,
I know it's been a while since this posting but I'm wondering if you got
this fixed and how. I am now having the same problem. I have tighten both
ends as much as they go without breaking and I still have a leak on the
water supply hose side.

Thanks
ana
-------------------------------------
Napoleon Blownapart wrote:


On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 14:08:02 -0500, Nil wrote:


Just got a new dishwasher (Kenmore model 665.13834) and I'm having
trouble
with the water hookup. I bought the required elbow that goes
between the
water supply line and the water inlet valve. I just CANNOT get it
to not
leak. I think I've finally gotten it to stop dripping from the
supply-side
of the joint with the use of some teflon tape, but I can't seem to
stop
the leak from the valve side.

Here's a picture of the assembly (the dishwasher is turned on its
side to
expose the bottom):

http://home.comcast.net/~esionder/temp/dishwasher1.jpg

I've tried two different elbows. I've tried it with and without
teflon
pipe tape. I've run out of ideas. Does anyone have any other
tricks for
making water-tight connections in this kind of situation?


The tape won't stop leaks but rather permit the joint to be tightened
more.


If the valve side of the elbow is NPT threaded then TFE tape ought to
prevent leaks, why don't you think it will on that side?

I agree that TFE tape on the threads probably won't stop leaks on the
supply side, which appears to be a coned compression fitting.

But, I have stoped leaks on such fittings by wrapping TFE tape so it's
on the angled cone sealing surface and then assembling the joint. I've
done similar on compression fittings which "just won't seal" by wrapping
the compression sleeve (aka ferrule) with TFE tape.

Unorthox, true. But the essence of pragmatism can be summed up as, "If
it works, do it."

Jeff

Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.






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Web and RSS access to your favorite newsgroup -
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##-----------------------------------------------##


--

In article
communications,
Jeff Wisnia wrote:


A response to spam.

Roomies, if you *insist* on replying to SUCK-O company spam, will you
please *at least* delete their friggin' SUCK-O company links?

Smitty Two wrote:
In article
communications,
Jeff Wisnia wrote:



A response to spam.


Roomies, if you *insist* on replying to SUCK-O company spam, will you
please *at least* delete their friggin' SUCK-O company links?

Sorry, I didn't realize that was a spam link. I looked at it and it
seemed to be just a forum group in the professional & homeowner venues.

Is what they're doing harvesting e-mail addies from forum members and
then selling them to spammers?

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

On 09 Apr 2009, (ana) wrote
in alt.home.repair:

ana had written this in response to
http://www.thestuccocompany.com/main...sher-hookup-le
ak-321845-.htm
:
Nill,
I know it's been a while since this posting but I'm wondering if
you got this fixed and how. I am now having the same problem. I
have tighten both ends as much as they go without breaking and I
still have a leak on the water supply hose side.

Yes, I did fix the problem. My problem was that I was being too gentle
with the fittings. I did crank it down pretty hard, or so I thought,
but I was afraid to force it for fear of cracking the brass fitting on
the dishwasher side, and also to avoid having the L-bend wind up facing
the wrong way. But it still leaked. Finally I was encouraged to tighten
it even harder, and I managed almost once complete turn. That did it -
no more leaks, and it's held tight ever since then.

I'm surprised to see my old usenet post show up on that web site, and
I'm impressed that you knew to respond back here. I hope you're able to
fix your leak.

In article
communications,
Jeff Wisnia wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:
In article
communications,
Jeff Wisnia wrote:



A response to spam.


Roomies, if you *insist* on replying to SUCK-O company spam, will you
please *at least* delete their friggin' SUCK-O company links?

Sorry, I didn't realize that was a spam link. I looked at it and it
seemed to be just a forum group in the professional & homeowner venues.

Is what they're doing harvesting e-mail addies from forum members and
then selling them to spammers?

Jeff

No, they're providing a "portal" to ahr from their website. Then they
post bogus help queries. Every time their company link gets posted, by
themselves or by respondents, their google ranking climbs. Maybe it
isn't spam by strict definition, but it's company advertising on usenet.

And they posture themselves as real helpful good guys. They oughta be
shot.