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#1
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Railway ties oozing creosote
I foolishly used some old RR ties as risers in a landscaping walkway. With
the hot sun this past weekend, old tars starting softening on the surface, and folks tracked creosote up onto my deck. I can sand it off the deck, but is there any way to treat the surface of these ties to prevent this? Tearing up the risers would be somewhere between inconvenient and really hard. Tnx |
#2
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Railway ties oozing creosote
On May 19, 3:36*pm, "Mamba" wrote:
I foolishly used some old RR ties as risers in a landscaping walkway. *With the hot sun this past weekend, old tars starting softening on the surface, and folks tracked creosote up onto my deck. *I can sand it off the deck, but is there any way to treat the surface of these ties to prevent this? Tearing up the risers would be somewhere between inconvenient and really hard. Tnx I dought it, maybe cover them with 1" treated, screwed on. |
#3
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Railway ties oozing creosote
Mamba wrote: I foolishly used some old RR ties as risers in a landscaping walkway. With the hot sun this past weekend, old tars starting softening on the surface, and folks tracked creosote up onto my deck. I can sand it off the deck, but is there any way to treat the surface of these ties to prevent this? Tearing up the risers would be somewhere between inconvenient and really hard. Tnx Visit your materials place and get a bucket of stone dust. Apply a thick layer of stone dust on the ties while they're hot and oozing. Pretty much the same idea as the chip seal they do on roads. |
#4
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Railway ties oozing creosote
On May 19, 3:36*pm, "Mamba" wrote:
I foolishly used some old RR ties as risers in a landscaping walkway. *With the hot sun this past weekend, old tars starting softening on the surface, and folks tracked creosote up onto my deck. *I can sand it off the deck, but is there any way to treat the surface of these ties to prevent this? Tearing up the risers would be somewhere between inconvenient and really hard. Tnx You do know that creosote is now listed as toxic and is a restricted use product, right? Red |
#5
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Railway ties oozing creosote
You do know that creosote is now listed as toxic and is a restricted use product, right? Red its unlikely to be creosote, in newer ties older ties are less likely to bleed. i heard creosote is no longer used in railroad ties |
#6
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Railway ties oozing creosote
"Red" wrote in message
... On May 19, 3:36 pm, "Mamba" wrote: You do know that creosote is now listed as toxic and is a restricted use product, right? Red --------------- Well, they were resold to me by the local farm supply store in rural WA. I certainly wouldn't buy them again, for my current reasons and because of the environmental issues. Some of my bunch are perhaps older, as they seem bone dry on the outside. They were used in full length as borders for the steps. Some are quite smooth on the outside, and these are the ones I selected to use as risers - they are also the ones with the "surface" creosote. Sadly, I now have this 50' walkway with uniform ties as borders and step risders, and 4 or 5 of them will need a different treatment. It was looking pretty good too. As an aside on this, wonder if there's any restrictions on the sale of the old ones they tear up. I drive past a BNSF fail yard every weekend, and they have stacks of them (hundreds, maybe thousands) with a big "4 sale" sign painted on the side. Sure hope nobody would try to use them for a cheap dock or anything like that. |
#7
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Railway ties oozing creosote
Pete C. wrote:
Mamba wrote: I foolishly used some old RR ties as risers in a landscaping walkway. With the hot sun this past weekend, old tars starting softening on the surface, and folks tracked creosote up onto my deck. I can sand it off the deck, but is there any way to treat the surface of these ties to prevent this? Tearing up the risers would be somewhere between inconvenient and really hard. Tnx Visit your materials place and get a bucket of stone dust. Apply a thick layer of stone dust on the ties while they're hot and oozing. Pretty much the same idea as the chip seal they do on roads. If you have a cement manufacturer nearby get a load of "crusher dust," the stuff that is produced as a byproduct of Portland cement manufacturing. I've found that it is a bit better than plain stone dust for this purpose. |
#8
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Railway ties oozing creosote
"rural WA" is that rural Washington or rural Western Australia
or somewhere else? Remember this is the Internet and it has no borders. I'm from Western Australia myself and also have local creosote soaked railway sleepers as a retaining wall but no bleeding problems. -- Regards Blue Remove ZX from email address to reply directly. |
#9
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Railway ties oozing creosote
On May 19, 5:45*pm, "Mamba" wrote:
You do know that creosote is now listed as toxic and is a restricted use product, right? Red --------------- Well, they were resold to me by the local farm supply store in rural WA. *I certainly wouldn't buy them again, for my current reasons and because of the environmental issues. * As an aside on this, wonder if there's any restrictions on the sale of the old ones they tear up. *I drive past a BNSF fail yard every weekend, and they have stacks of them (hundreds, maybe thousands) with a big "4 sale" sign painted on the side. *Sure hope nobody would try to use them for a cheap dock or anything like that. The seller does not know what you will be using them for and probably doesn't want to know. There are a lot of uses where people do not come in contact with the creosote and are probably safe for that usage. Rural barbwire fence corner posts come to mind. When you mentioned it being tracked onto your deck that raised a flag in my mind as possibly getting into the house also - something I would worry about. Red |
#10
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Railway ties oozing creosote
On May 19, 7:23*pm, Red wrote:
On May 19, 5:45*pm, "Mamba" wrote: You do know that creosote is now listed as toxic and is a restricted use product, right? Red --------------- Well, they were resold to me by the local farm supply store in rural WA. *I certainly wouldn't buy them again, for my current reasons and because of the environmental issues. * As an aside on this, wonder if there's any restrictions on the sale of the old ones they tear up. *I drive past a BNSF fail yard every weekend, and they have stacks of them (hundreds, maybe thousands) with a big "4 sale" sign painted on the side. *Sure hope nobody would try to use them for a cheap dock or anything like that. The seller does not know what you will be using them for and probably doesn't want to know. *There are a lot of uses where people do not come in contact with the creosote and are probably safe for that usage. *Rural barbwire fence corner posts come to mind. *When you mentioned it being tracked onto your deck that raised a flag in my mind as possibly getting into the house also - something I would worry about. Red- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - The "Oh my God, Creosote!!, panic, run" is/was nothing but a political movement. Yes, you could have health problems if you chewed up and ate enough of the treated wood but short of that, no. Same with the dreaded "leaching". The ban is on using it to treat wood members, there is no restriction on selling and using already treated salvaged members. Any RR ties for sale will almost always be the creosoted ones and likely will be for a long while to come. Age of RR ties is no gaurantee that they will, or won't, bleed. I have retaining walls (5 ft high) and border edgings from RR ties that are 20 years old that have a few that still bleed. The ties were probably a lot older than that when I bought them. The OP's problem is with tracking it. All that I can think of is to either cover it up somehow or replace the ones that bleed. In my case, it is the odor on a hot day that is a minor problem. Harry K |
#11
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Railway ties oozing creosote
On May 19, 11:14*pm, Harry K wrote:
The "Oh my God, Creosote!!, panic, run" is/was nothing but a political movement. * Yes, you could have health problems if you chewed up and ate enough of the treated wood but short of that, no. *Same with the dreaded "leaching". The EPA Restricted Use Pesticides listing lists creosote as having oncogenic effects (capable of producing tumors) and mutagenic effects (capable of mutating DNA & causing cancer). A political movement? Do I take your word it's safe or the EPA's word that it isn't safe? |
#12
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Railway ties oozing creosote
You could screw on some cedar boards or whatever material you like the
looks of. Less messy and longer lasting than the powder type solutions. |
#13
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Railway ties oozing creosote
"Red" wrote in message ... On May 19, 11:14 pm, Harry K wrote: The "Oh my God, Creosote!!, panic, run" is/was nothing but a political movement. Yes, you could have health problems if you chewed up and ate enough of the treated wood but short of that, no. Same with the dreaded "leaching". The EPA Restricted Use Pesticides listing lists creosote as having oncogenic effects (capable of producing tumors) and mutagenic effects (capable of mutating DNA & causing cancer). A political movement? Do I take your word it's safe or the EPA's word that it isn't safe? Do they mention any dose or exposure level? |
#14
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Railway ties oozing creosote
On May 20, 5:24*pm, "stu" wrote:
"Red" wrote in message ... On May 19, 11:14 pm, Harry K wrote: The "Oh my God, Creosote!!, panic, run" is/was nothing but a political movement. Yes, you could have health problems if you chewed up and ate enough of the treated wood but short of that, no. Same with the dreaded "leaching". The EPA Restricted Use Pesticides listing lists creosote as having oncogenic effects (capable of producing tumors) and mutagenic effects (capable of mutating DNA & causing cancer). *A political movement? *Do I take your word it's safe or the EPA's word that it isn't safe? Do they mention any dose or exposure level? No, but I assume as with all products it would vary with each individual. Some may never be affected and other's could be affected with minimal contact. |
#15
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Railway ties oozing creosote
On May 20, 2:46*pm, Red wrote:
On May 19, 11:14*pm, Harry K wrote: The "Oh my God, Creosote!!, panic, run" is/was nothing but a political movement. * Yes, you could have health problems if you chewed up and ate enough of the treated wood but short of that, no. *Same with the dreaded "leaching". The EPA Restricted Use Pesticides listing lists creosote as having oncogenic effects (capable of producing tumors) and mutagenic effects (capable of mutating DNA & causing cancer). *A political movement? *Do I take your word it's safe or the EPA's word that it isn't safe? As I said. It was a political movement run by the ecofreaks and mommies who thought their little darlings were in danger on the playground. That battle raged for years before the EPA caved in even though noone ever came up with a case were it caused a problem. One of the problems was the ?arsenic? content (may have been one of the other highly dangerous poisons) in spite of the fact that many regions have that chemical as a natural portion (very slight) of the drinking water. The truth is that almost _everything_ is carcinogenic given a large enough doseage. Even water is fatal if overdosed. Harry K |
#16
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Railway ties oozing creosote
The EPA Restricted Use Pesticides listing lists creosote as having
oncogenic effects (capable of producing tumors) and mutagenic effects (capable of mutating DNA & causing cancer). A political movement? Do I take your word it's safe or the EPA's word that it isn't safe? And you would trust the EPA with their history of fraudulent research? |
#17
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Railway ties oozing creosote
As I said. �It was a political movement run by the ecofreaks and mommies who thought their little darlings were in danger on the playground. �That battle raged for years before the EPA caved in even though noone ever came up with a case were it caused a problem. Harry K note thats what said about so much, global warming hazardous products, heck even smoking, and most recently secondhand smoke.......... I seriously doubt RR ties still use creosote, and the new power pole just installed doesnt have the tell tail creosote appearance either |
#18
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Railway ties oozing creosote
On May 21, 5:08Â*am, " wrote:
As I said. �It was a political movement run by the ecofreaks and mommies who thought their little darlings were in danger on the playground. �That battle raged for years before the EPA caved in even though noone ever came up with a case were it caused a problem. Harry K note thats what said about so much, global warming hazardous products, heck even smoking, and most recently secondhand smoke.......... I seriously doubt RR ties still use creosote, and the new power pole just installed doesnt have the tell tail creosote appearance either NO, nothing is treated with creosote any more. Harry K |
#19
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Railway ties oozing creosote
Creosote is still legal and widely available in Australia (and
my State of WA). See http://www.auspine.com.au/ProductsEx...=33&Parent=295 http://www.safersolutions.org.au/ind...3&Itemi d=133 http://www.tpaa.com.au/creosote.htm http://www.worksafemedics.com.au/PDF...s/Creosote.pdf -- Regards Blue Remove ZX from email address to reply directly. |
#20
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Railway ties oozing creosote
On May 22, 3:48*am, "aussiblu" wrote:
Creosote is still legal and widely available in Australia (and my State of WA). *Seehttp://www.auspine.com.au/ProductsExpanded.asp?menu=4&Expanded=33&Par...http://www.safersolutions.org.au/ind...0Fact%20Sheets... -- Regards Blue Remove ZX from email address to reply directly. Thanks. I checked your cites and found the discussions interesting in that they support my position that the 'danger' of it is marginal at best. I could not find anything in any of the four cites that discuss the legality of use. Could you point it out? I am hoping you are right but the "in the state of WA" doesn't sound right as the ban was a federal, not state law and thus WA should be included. I didn't dig into any of the 'side' links on those pages so it may have been in their someplace. Harry K |
#21
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Railway ties oozing creosote
On May 20, 4:04*pm, Red wrote:
On May 20, 5:24*pm, "stu" wrote: "Red" wrote in message ... On May 19, 11:14 pm, Harry K wrote: The "Oh my God, Creosote!!, panic, run" is/was nothing but a political movement. Yes, you could have health problems if you chewed up and ate enough of the treated wood but short of that, no. Same with the dreaded "leaching". The EPA Restricted Use Pesticides listing lists creosote as having oncogenic effects (capable of producing tumors) and mutagenic effects (capable of mutating DNA & causing cancer). *A political movement? *Do I take your word it's safe or the EPA's word that it isn't safe? Do they mention any dose or exposure level? No, but I assume as with all products it would vary with each individual. *Some may never be affected and other's could be affected with minimal contact.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I suggest you check the references that 'aussiblu' posted. Much more valid than the opinions of the people who pushed for the ban. Harry K |
#22
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Railway ties oozing creosote
Red wrote:
The EPA Restricted Use Pesticides listing lists creosote as having oncogenic effects (capable of producing tumors) and mutagenic effects (capable of mutating DNA & causing cancer). A political movement? Do I take your word it's safe or the EPA's word that it isn't safe? Nobody said creosote was safe. If you eat it you'll get sick. If you roll around in it day in and day out for years and years without protective clothing, you'll probably get cancer, or at least some pretty nasty skin problems. Everything isn't black and white. There are shades of gray, and this one is a pretty light shade of gray. The amount of creosote leaching from railroad ties used as landscape timbers in your yard is tiny. The amount of contact you have with these railroad ties is tiny. Unless you have an obsessive compulsive need to roll around naked on bleeding railroad ties, or chew on them like a beaver, you will not experience any adverse effects from the simple presence of creosote. You get more direct exposure to creosote from bonfires, your fireplace, or your wood stove, but none of those are subject to the same PANIC ALERT that these creosote-coated railroad ties are receiving. |
#23
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Railway ties oozing creosote
On May 22, 8:20*am, wrote:
Red wrote: The EPA Restricted Use Pesticides listing lists creosote as having oncogenic effects (capable of producing tumors) and mutagenic effects (capable of mutating DNA & causing cancer). *A political movement? *Do I take your word it's safe or the EPA's word that it isn't safe? Nobody said creosote was safe. If you eat it you'll get sick. If you roll around in it day in and day out for years and years without protective clothing, you'll probably get cancer, or at least some pretty nasty skin problems. Everything isn't black and white. There are shades of gray, and this one is a pretty light shade of gray. The amount of creosote leaching from railroad ties used as landscape timbers in your yard is tiny. The amount of contact you have with these railroad ties is tiny. Unless you have an obsessive compulsive need to roll around naked on bleeding railroad ties, or chew on them like a beaver, you will not experience any adverse effects from the simple presence of creosote. You get more direct exposure to creosote from bonfires, your fireplace, or your wood stove, but none of those are subject to the same PANIC ALERT that these creosote-coated railroad ties are receiving. For sure. the cites 'aussiblui' gave above pretty well lays it out. If you aren't taking a bath in it or 'huffing' it - no problem. Of course facts have never stopped the ecofreaks and the like from raising a dust storm in the middle of a flood. Harry K |
#24
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Railway ties oozing creosote
"My state of WA" is the state of Western Australia.
-- Regards Blue Remove ZX from email address to reply directly. |
#25
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Railway ties oozing creosote
Actually I am now confused too about its legality in Australia.
See http://www.baddevelopers.green.net.a...oxictimber.htm "Currently in Australia that are about 130 CCA plants, 35 boron plants and baths, 11 light organic solvent preservative (LOSP) plants, 4 creosote plants, ...." but it also notes: "Since the introduction of bans on the use of creosote and pentachlorophenol, chromated copper arsenate (CCA) has emerged as the most popular form of wood treatment. " A check through the Australian legislation database at http://www.austlii.edu.au does indicate it is scheduled poison and a Class B Activity under Section 42 of the Commonwealth (Federal) Environmental Protection Act but all this means is that areas covered by Commonwealth rather than state jurisdiction: ' person shall not conduct an activity listed in Schedule 1 as a Class B activity unless the person- (a) is a party to an environmental protection agreement that is in effect in respect of that activity; or (b) holds an environmental authorisation in respect of that activity. " There is also a lot of various Australian State legislation preventing its use in the marine environment and prescribing occupational health and safety requirements for its use. My conclusion is while its list and sales is restricted its use is not yet banned. NB In Australia the constitution restricts the legislative powers of the Commonwealth to things like: trade and commerce with other countries, and among the States [s 51(i)]; taxation [s 51(ii)]; defence [s 51(vi)]; corporations [s 51(xx)]; immigration [s 51(xxvii)]; and external affairs [s 51(xxix)]. Of course having power over tax legislation gives it a very powerful lever over the states. -- Regards Blue Remove ZX from email address to reply directly. |
#26
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Railway ties oozing creosote
One of our State government Departments is recommending the use
of creosote here http://agspsrv34.agric.wa.gov.au/Ento/termites.htm (the Agriculture Department of WA) so I doubt it is banned. "Creosote can be an effective timber preservative, preventing termite attack and wood rot. Protection depends upon the depth of penetration. Simply brushing creosote on wood surfaces gives little protection. Multiple applications by brush are better, but preferably soak the timber in creosote for at least 48 hours. All cutting and hole boring should be completed before soaking. Round fence posts of seasoned softwood timber, with sapwood present and the bark removed, can be successfully treated in a similar manner. " -- Regards Blue Remove ZX from email address to reply directly. |
#27
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Railway ties oozing creosote
And our Ag Department again "
"The oil-borne preservative high temperature creosote, (HTC) is recommended for treating posts on the farm. A 205 L drum of HTC (ex Perth) costs about $240 if a pallet of four drums is bought. Costs can be reduced by including mineral oil or distillate, for example a 60:40 mixture of creosote and furnace oil. Some commercial creosote treaters a Norman Bario, Mt Barker; Dryandra Timber Products, Cuballing; and C.C. and J. Russell, Narrogin. " http://www.agric.wa.gov.au/content/L.../TREENOTE8.HTM -- Regards Blue Remove ZX from email address to reply directly. |
#28
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Railway ties oozing creosote
On May 23, 6:30*am, "aussiblu" wrote:
One of our State government Departments is recommending the use of creosote herehttp://agspsrv34.agric.wa.gov.au/Ento/termites.htm(the Agriculture Department of WA) so I doubt it is banned. "Creosote can be an effective timber preservative, preventing termite attack and wood rot. Protection depends upon the depth of penetration. Simply brushing creosote on wood surfaces gives little protection. Multiple applications by brush are better, but preferably soak the timber in creosote for at least 48 hours. All cutting and hole boring should be completed before soaking. Round fence posts of seasoned softwood timber, with sapwood present and the bark removed, can be successfully treated in a similar manner. " -- Regards Blue Remove ZX from email address to reply directly. Hmmm...I was hoping to find a date on that with no luck. I did find dates at the end in the list of cites for other documents with the latest one of 1993 - that would be near the time the ban was enacted but I think it was prior. That report is also another one from Australia - looks like the WA.GOV agency just stole it in it's entirety. Harry K |
#29
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Railway ties oozing creosote
On May 23, 5:34*am, "aussiblu" wrote:
"My state of WA" is the state of Western Australia. -- Regards Blue Remove ZX from email address to reply directly. And once again I was bitten by the 'parochrial bug'. I got bit by that not very many days ago also. Harry K |
#30
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Railway ties oozing creosote
On May 23, 5:34*am, "aussiblu" wrote:
"My state of WA" is the state of Western Australia. -- Regards Blue Remove ZX from email address to reply directly. And I see I did it again in my other reply. Harry K |
#31
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Railway ties oozing creosote
On Wednesday, May 21, 2008 at 8:08:23 AM UTC-4, wrote:
As I said. �It was a political movement run by the ecofreaks and mommies who thought their little darlings were in danger on the playground. �That battle raged for years before the EPA caved in even though noone ever came up with a case were it caused a problem. Harry K note thats what said about so much, global warming hazardous products, heck even smoking, and most recently secondhand smoke.......... I seriously doubt RR ties still use creosote, and the new power pole just installed doesnt have the tell tail creosote appearance either I have had these Railroad ties that leach Creosole for 38 years. I want to sell the house and the leaching log is close to my front door and the buyers will notice it as they walk on the walk way. Also, they will track the creosole into my house & get it on the wood floor & carpets. Do you suggest that I cover it with a light coat of concrete to seal it. there are bricks on either of the long sides. My handyman suggested that he could use outdoor paint on the concrete to look just like the bricks and cement on the walkway. do you think that will work? |
#32
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Railway ties oozing creosote
I have had these Railroad ties that leach Creosole for 38 years. I want to sell the house and the leaching log is close to my front door and the buyers will notice it as they walk on the walk way. Also, they will track the creosole into my house & get it on the wood floor & carpets. Do you suggest that I cover it with a light coat of concrete to seal it. there are bricks on either of the long sides. My handyman suggested that he could use outdoor paint on the concrete to look just like the bricks and cement on the walkway. do you think that will work? Decorate them with fabric - old neck ties would be perfect - the brighter the better. sympatico rail ties neck ties https://www.aliexpress.com/cheap/cheap-tie-g.html ... I'm a genious ! :-) John T. |
#33
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Railway ties oozing creosote
replying to Harry K, nuncha wrote:
wow you are a special kind of stupid arentcha harry this stuff is deadly when you are dying of cancer think about your asinine comments -- for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...te-307680-.htm |
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