All,

We're about to start on doing some major work to the back garden, including
replacing a retaining wall (about 500mm). We were planning on using
recycled railway sleepers for this, laid horizontally.

We knew there were certain caveats on these - something to do with the
preservatives that had been used causing anybody that goes within a mile of
'em to grow three heads or something - but we're finding some of the people
quoting are more than a bit reluctant.

We've heard that they're just plain illegal and unobtainable.

Then we've heard that they're illegal anywhere near where you may be
growing food. We probably won't be, but there's a possibility there'll be a
few veggies or more likely herbs in a bed bordered with them.

Now we've heard they're really not all that suitable, and likely to warp
and not hold well.

Thoughts? Is it just that they don't much like the idea of lugging the
bloody things through the house to the back garden but don't want to say
so?

In message . 170,
Adrian writes
All,

We're about to start on doing some major work to the back garden, including
replacing a retaining wall (about 500mm). We were planning on using
recycled railway sleepers for this, laid horizontally.

We knew there were certain caveats on these - something to do with the
preservatives that had been used causing anybody that goes within a mile of
'em to grow three heads or something - but we're finding some of the people
quoting are more than a bit reluctant.

We've heard that they're just plain illegal and unobtainable.

Then we've heard that they're illegal anywhere near where you may be
growing food. We probably won't be, but there's a possibility there'll be a
few veggies or more likely herbs in a bed bordered with them.

Now we've heard they're really not all that suitable, and likely to warp
and not hold well.

Thoughts? Is it just that they don't much like the idea of lugging the
bloody things through the house to the back garden but don't want to say
so?

Just think of how many people have ****ed on them over the years


--
geoff

On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 00:06:37 GMT, raden babbled
like a waterfall and said:

In message . 170,
Adrian writes
All,

We're about to start on doing some major work to the back garden, including
replacing a retaining wall (about 500mm). We were planning on using
recycled railway sleepers for this, laid horizontally.

We knew there were certain caveats on these - something to do with the
preservatives that had been used causing anybody that goes within a mile of
'em to grow three heads or something - but we're finding some of the people
quoting are more than a bit reluctant.

We've heard that they're just plain illegal and unobtainable.

Then we've heard that they're illegal anywhere near where you may be
growing food. We probably won't be, but there's a possibility there'll be a
few veggies or more likely herbs in a bed bordered with them.

Now we've heard they're really not all that suitable, and likely to warp
and not hold well.

Thoughts? Is it just that they don't much like the idea of lugging the
bloody things through the house to the back garden but don't want to say
so?

Just think of how many people have ****ed on them over the years

That's rubbish!

The **** makes em waterproof so the **** won't soak in.

"Adrian" wrote in message
. 244.170...
All,

We're about to start on doing some major work to the back garden,
including
replacing a retaining wall (about 500mm). We were planning on using
recycled railway sleepers for this, laid horizontally.

We knew there were certain caveats on these - something to do with the
preservatives that had been used causing anybody that goes within a mile
of
'em to grow three heads or something - but we're finding some of the
people
quoting are more than a bit reluctant.

We've heard that they're just plain illegal and unobtainable.

Then we've heard that they're illegal anywhere near where you may be
growing food. We probably won't be, but there's a possibility there'll be
a
few veggies or more likely herbs in a bed bordered with them.

Now we've heard they're really not all that suitable, and likely to warp
and not hold well.

Thoughts? Is it just that they don't much like the idea of lugging the
bloody things through the house to the back garden but don't want to say
so?

Old recycled sleepers are not really suitable for a garden where people are
sitting on them, or making use of them as flower bed borders and veggie bed
borders (if that's what you'd call them), because they were pressure treated
and embedded with very strong chemical preservatives. These chemicals were
known to cause skin irritation and sometimes cancers. They would also leak
these chemicals into the surrounding soil and kill off the plants that were
grown there. But that was the old recycled sleepers which I think are now
illegal to sell to the general public for all those very reasons.

New sleepers are obtainable though, and these have not been given the strong
treatment that the older ones got. These can be used quite safely for
around the house uses. So you can have the newer ones without worries.

This site tells some more tales on them:
http://www.rdgservices.com/newsleepers.html

On 01 Jun 2005 22:24:12 GMT, Adrian said:

All, We're about to start on doing some major work to the back
garden, including replacing a retaining wall (about 500mm). We were
planning on using recycled railway sleepers for this, laid
horizontally.

We knew there were certain caveats on these - something to do with
the preservatives that had been used causing anybody that goes
within a mile of 'em to grow three heads or something - but we're
finding some of the people quoting are more than a bit reluctant.

http://railwaysleepers.net/

Given the comments about toxic preservatives in other replies to this
question, does anyone have any comments on the furniture at
http://www.jarabosky.co.uk/ ?

Are sleepers imported from tropical countries made from high quality
hardwoods, and treated with nothing more unpleasant that creosote?

--
Alan J. Wylie http://www.wylie.me.uk/
"Perfection [in design] is achieved not when there is nothing left to add,
but rather when there is nothing left to take away."
-- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

On 01 Jun 2005 22:24:12 GMT, Adrian wrote:

All,

We're about to start on doing some major work to the back garden, including
replacing a retaining wall (about 500mm). We were planning on using
recycled railway sleepers for this, laid horizontally.

We knew there were certain caveats on these - something to do with the
preservatives that had been used causing anybody that goes within a mile of
'em to grow three heads or something - but we're finding some of the people
quoting are more than a bit reluctant.

We've heard that they're just plain illegal and unobtainable.

Then we've heard that they're illegal anywhere near where you may be
growing food. We probably won't be, but there's a possibility there'll be a
few veggies or more likely herbs in a bed bordered with them.

Now we've heard they're really not all that suitable, and likely to warp
and not hold well.

Thoughts? Is it just that they don't much like the idea of lugging the
bloody things through the house to the back garden but don't want to say
so?

I have used railway sleepers ....

They can be joined by drilling 10mm holes throught them, and then
hammeriing in 10mm rebar - this is hard work.

They stink - especially if cut, I ended up putting decking on mine to
make seats and the like.

You can still buy them, they are about 20 quid each

I'd use bricks for this application

On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 07:38:34 +0100, (Alan J. Wylie)
wrote:

Given the comments about toxic preservatives in other replies to this
question, does anyone have any comments on the furniture at
http://www.jarabosky.co.uk/ ?

It's plug ugly, made from nasty wood ?

I admit I've made some of this stuff myself, but I don't _like_ this
"timber brutalist" styling - even as bar fitting or lofts. We're so
divorced from decent timber these days that we've forgotten what good
furniture looks like. A bit of plasticy veneer from Ikea passes as
"wood" and the horror that is "naughty pine" gets passed off as an
antique. Then we see recycled outdoor timbers pretending to be quality
cabinetry, sealed under a layer of sprayed lacquer to keep the smell and
the oils in. I make _timber_framing_ that's more like cabinetry than
this stuff. Get yourself to bath, or somewhere else with decent
galleries full of 18th century work, and take a look at real
craftsmanship in the best of materials.

(and yes, I've looked _very_ closely at Jarabosky's work in Camden)


Are sleepers imported from tropical countries made from high quality
hardwoods,

As a general rule, UK sleepers are Australian Jarrah and were creosoted.
Some are Rhodesian timbers. Anything older than that is probably
pre-Beeching and you aren't going to find them now.

treated with nothing more unpleasant that creosote?

Creosote is pretty unpleasant. I cycle past a BT pole depot and on a
good Summer's day I can start smelling it about 1/4 mile away.

--
Cats have nine lives, which is why they rarely post to Usenet.

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 07:38:34 +0100, (Alan J. Wylie)
wrote:

Given the comments about toxic preservatives in other replies to this
question, does anyone have any comments on the furniture at
http://www.jarabosky.co.uk/ ?

It's plug ugly, made from nasty wood ?

Hear hear.

I admit I've made some of this stuff myself, but I don't _like_ this
"timber brutalist" styling - even as bar fitting or lofts.

It's certainly brutal. It's creeping into mediaeval events too :-(

We're so
divorced from decent timber these days that we've forgotten what good
furniture looks like. A bit of plasticy veneer from Ikea passes as
"wood" and the horror that is "naughty pine" gets passed off as an
antique. Then we see recycled outdoor timbers pretending to be quality
cabinetry, sealed under a layer of sprayed lacquer to keep the smell and
the oils in. I make _timber_framing_ that's more like cabinetry than
this stuff. Get yourself to bath, or somewhere else with decent
galleries full of 18th century work, and take a look at real
craftsmanship in the best of materials.

Well said.

Mary

On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 12:14:59 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

It's certainly brutal. It's creeping into mediaeval events too :-(

How do you think oak should be finished for re-enactor events ?
White, brown or black ? Personally I like my Stickley-style ammonia
fumed work (mid-brown) but I've also made "Jacobean" work that's as back
as I can get it. However both of these are anachronistic for "period"
repro - that's not the colour such timber would have been when it was
made.

Hollywood tends to disagree of course - "Shakespeare in Love" being one
of the worst offenders. I haven't seen "Team Templars vs. bin Laden"
yet

EricP wrote:
On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 00:06:37 GMT, raden babbled
like a waterfall and said:

In message . 170,
Adrian writes
All,

We're about to start on doing some major work to the back garden, including
replacing a retaining wall (about 500mm). We were planning on using
recycled railway sleepers for this, laid horizontally.

We knew there were certain caveats on these - something to do with the
preservatives that had been used causing anybody that goes within a mile of
'em to grow three heads or something - but we're finding some of the people
quoting are more than a bit reluctant.

We've heard that they're just plain illegal and unobtainable.

Then we've heard that they're illegal anywhere near where you may be
growing food. We probably won't be, but there's a possibility there'll be a
few veggies or more likely herbs in a bed bordered with them.

Now we've heard they're really not all that suitable, and likely to warp
and not hold well.

Thoughts? Is it just that they don't much like the idea of lugging the
bloody things through the house to the back garden but don't want to say
so?

Just think of how many people have ****ed on them over the years

That's rubbish!

The **** makes em waterproof so the **** won't soak in.

hahahah. too true




RT

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 12:14:59 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

It's certainly brutal. It's creeping into mediaeval events too :-(

How do you think oak should be finished for re-enactor events ?

I don't! Except by a wax polish. Which I make and sell ... whistles

But I was talking about the imported heavy thick dark planks which are
assembled with 'wrought iron' parts and sold to the gullible public - not,
as far as I know, to re-enactors. Even they know better.

*You* know that if you make a new piece of furniture it looks exctly as it
would when it was new in whatever period it belongs in. A patina of dirt or
whatever takes a long time to accumulate.

White, brown or black ? Personally I like my Stickley-style ammonia
fumed work (mid-brown) but I've also made "Jacobean" work that's as back
as I can get it. However both of these are anachronistic for "period"
repro - that's not the colour such timber would have been when it was
made.

Quite.

Hollywood tends to disagree of course - "Shakespeare in Love" being one
of the worst offenders. I haven't seen "Team Templars vs. bin Laden"
yet

You probably also know that we don't have a telly so we don't see things,
nor do we get to the pictures. When we've been 'treated' to films at others'
houses we've cringed ... The most enjoyable was A Knight's Talebut that was
probably because it was done as a spoof of period pictures. I was told.

Mary

On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 02:24:07 GMT, EricP
wrote:


The **** makes em waterproof so the **** won't soak in.

Have you seen the price they sometimes charge for recycled sleepers.
Now that is taking the ****.

Graham

In message , EricP
writes

Thoughts? Is it just that they don't much like the idea of lugging the
bloody things through the house to the back garden but don't want to say
so?

Just think of how many people have ****ed on them over the years

That's rubbish!

I think "crap" was the word you wanted there


The **** makes em waterproof so the **** won't soak in.


--
geoff

On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 19:25:25 GMT, babbled like a
waterfall and said:

On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 02:24:07 GMT, EricP
wrote:


The **** makes em waterproof so the **** won't soak in.

Have you seen the price they sometimes charge for recycled sleepers.
Now that is taking the ****.

Graham

DO tell! ))

On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 11:28:22 +0100, Andy Dingley
babbled like a waterfall and said:

It's plug ugly, made from nasty wood ?

I admit I've made some of this stuff myself, but I don't _like_ this
"timber brutalist" styling - even as bar fitting or lofts. We're so
divorced from decent timber these days that we've forgotten what good
furniture looks like. A bit of plasticy veneer from Ikea passes as
"wood" and the horror that is "naughty pine" gets passed off as an
antique. Then we see recycled outdoor timbers pretending to be quality
cabinetry, sealed under a layer of sprayed lacquer to keep the smell and
the oils in. I make _timber_framing_ that's more like cabinetry than
this stuff. Get yourself to bath, or somewhere else with decent
galleries full of 18th century work, and take a look at real
craftsmanship in the best of materials.

(and yes, I've looked _very_ closely at Jarabosky's work in Camden)

There was one of those recycling in the home type shows on last year
and they were going around showing what people had done.

One woman lived on the shore and collected driftwood. I have seen some
stunning art made from this stuff. This woman made her kitchen
cupboard doors from it. The turnip doing the show was purring about
the stunning use of the wood for the doors. They were the raw
driftwood tied together to roughly fill the carcase fronts. No attempt
appeared to have been made to work them or even to get them to fit.
They were what a 5 year old would make a "den" out of and looked like
that. I wonder they didn't get put up for the Turner Prize.

I worried for months about being so far out of touch with art. Then I
realised they were both turnips and felt better.

"EricP" wrote in message
...

There was one of those recycling in the home type shows on last year
and they were going around showing what people had done.

One woman lived on the shore and collected driftwood. I have seen some
stunning art made from this stuff. This woman made her kitchen
cupboard doors from it. The turnip doing the show was purring about
the stunning use of the wood for the doors. They were the raw
driftwood tied together to roughly fill the carcase fronts. No attempt
appeared to have been made to work them or even to get them to fit.

That's a completely different kettle of fish from trying to sell it.

Mary

Adrian wrote in
. 244.170:

All,

We're about to start on doing some major work to the back garden,
including replacing a retaining wall (about 500mm). We were planning
on using recycled railway sleepers for this, laid horizontally.

We knew there were certain caveats on these - something to do with the
preservatives that had been used causing anybody that goes within a
mile of 'em to grow three heads or something - but we're finding some
of the people quoting are more than a bit reluctant.

We've heard that they're just plain illegal and unobtainable.

Then we've heard that they're illegal anywhere near where you may be
growing food. We probably won't be, but there's a possibility there'll
be a few veggies or more likely herbs in a bed bordered with them.

Now we've heard they're really not all that suitable, and likely to
warp and not hold well.

Thoughts? Is it just that they don't much like the idea of lugging the
bloody things through the house to the back garden but don't want to
say so?

have a look he http://tinyurl.com/d4e6j

It gives you the details about the EU directive on railway sleepers.

You'd be better buying new TBH. I've just bought new tanilised softwood
sleepers for £18 each to make a retaining wall for flower beds round the
patio.

Alan J. Wylie ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying :

http://railwaysleepers.net/

"Sleepers do contain creosote & as such are not ideal for children's play
areas" - given that any sprogs in my back garden are likely to be
trespassing...

BigWallop ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

Old recycled sleepers are not really suitable for a garden where
people are sitting on them

They'd have a fence going straight up from the back, so not going to be the
most comfortable seat. "Perch", possibly, but not really seat.

or making use of them as flower bed
borders and veggie bed borders (if that's what you'd call them),

Mmm. Some of them were going to be for that.

But that was the old recycled sleepers which I think are
now illegal to sell to the general public for all those very reasons.

Unless all the various websites are w-a-a-a-a-y out of date, it would seem
they're still legal for sale. But obviously, they've got a vested interest
in playing down any health risks.

New sleepers are obtainable though, and these have not been given the
strong treatment that the older ones got. These can be used quite
safely for around the house uses. So you can have the newer ones
without worries.

Yes, but the newer ones aren't as thoroughly preserved, are some tatty
softwood, and just plain don't have the "look" of the old ones...

This site tells some more tales on them:
http://www.rdgservices.com/newsleepers.html

"Railways sleepers cannot be used in the following circumstances."
"Areas where there is the risk of prolonged human contact. i.e. Retaining
walls which people walk past all the time."

Mmmm. That's starting to sound likely.

Danny Monaghan ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

have a look he http://tinyurl.com/d4e6j

It gives you the details about the EU directive on railway sleepers.

Still confused!

You'd be better buying new TBH. I've just bought new tanilised softwood
sleepers for £18 each to make a retaining wall for flower beds round the
patio.

Yebbut - and no offence to your undoubtedly lovely wall...

Just look at these :-
http://www.railwaysleeper.com/Sleepe...an%20beech.jpg
*Gorgeous*. Perfect. Imagine a wall four courses high, down one side of an
8m long x 4m wide paved courtyard garden. Lovely.

Now compare with these :-
http://www.railwaysleeper.com/Sleepe...tic%20pine.jpg
yawn

(But, yes, these ones do look terrible...)
http://www.railwaysleeper.com/Sleepe...ish%20pine.jpg

Before all this confusion, I was leaning towards getting Oak Grade A from
http://railway-sleepers.com/reclaimed.asp

raden ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

Just think of how many people have ****ed on them over the years

shrug
S'all natural, innit?

In message . 170,
Adrian writes
raden ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

Just think of how many people have ****ed on them over the years

shrug
S'all natural, innit?

So are volcanos and tsunamis, it still doesn't make them very healthy

--
geoff

I had 2 railway sleeper walls built a few years ago from reclaimed
sleepers, which were creosoted red hardwood. Tough as they are it did
not stop the wall from starting to collapse, the builders of this wall
returned a couple of months ago an redid it under the supervision of a
structural engineer. Now though these walls are almost twice the height
of yours the interesting thing is that the engineer insisted that they
were canted back a few degrees, might be worth thinking about. As
regards problems I have (yet) suffered no ill effects, except in hot
weather the creosote "bubbles" out and can get onto clothes etc. unless
careful.

Broadback ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying :

Now though these walls are almost twice the height
of yours the interesting thing is that the engineer insisted that they
were canted back a few degrees, might be worth thinking about.

Yes, they were going to be.