SteveB wrote:
Just going over some proposals from a recently completing project ......

Hang six interior doors
Install baseboard in a 1,000 sf addition
Install door knobs and locks
Install door trim

NO PAINT OR TOUCH UP

$1,524 LABOR ONLY

I did the work myself. First doors I ever hung. A couple of burps, but the
doors work fine. Locks I know. Bought a second hand DeWalt compound miter
saw for $50. Bought a used Porter Cable nailer, $40.

Total cost, less than $250. Whoops, forgot the paint, which is another $25.
And I own the saw and nailer, which are slick. I can use them for lots of
other projects.

Why do some people think they're worth so much?

I can understand hvac and electric and plumbing and some of the specialty
trades. What's so hard about doors and trim?

Steve



What is so hard about HVAC, electrical and plumbing?

--
Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
Georgetown, TX

"SteveB" wrote in message
...
Just going over some proposals from a recently completing project ......

Hang six interior doors
Install baseboard in a 1,000 sf addition
Install door knobs and locks
Install door trim

NO PAINT OR TOUCH UP

$1,524 LABOR ONLY

I did the work myself. First doors I ever hung. A couple of burps, but
the doors work fine. Locks I know. Bought a second hand DeWalt compound
miter saw for $50. Bought a used Porter Cable nailer, $40.

Total cost, less than $250. Whoops, forgot the paint, which is another
$25. And I own the saw and nailer, which are slick. I can use them for
lots of other projects.

Why do some people think they're worth so much?

I can understand hvac and electric and plumbing and some of the specialty
trades. What's so hard about doors and trim?

Steve



The person who gave you the quote - how long did he say all this work might
take?

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
....

The person who gave you the quote - how long did he say all this work might
take?

More to the point, how long did it take him and what was his hourly wage
(exclusive, of course, of taxes including self-employment/FICA/workmans
comp, health and other benefits, etc., etc, etc., ...?

--

"dpb" wrote in message ...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
...

The person who gave you the quote - how long did he say all this work
might take?

More to the point, how long did it take him and what was his hourly wage
(exclusive, of course, of taxes including self-employment/FICA/workmans
comp, health and other benefits, etc., etc, etc., ...?

--


It didn't take "him" any time at all, because the OP didn't have the guy do
the work.

Just going over some proposals from a recently completing project ......

Hang six interior doors
Install baseboard in a 1,000 sf addition
Install door knobs and locks
Install door trim

NO PAINT OR TOUCH UP

$1,524 LABOR ONLY

I did the work myself. First doors I ever hung. A couple of burps, but the
doors work fine. Locks I know. Bought a second hand DeWalt compound miter
saw for $50. Bought a used Porter Cable nailer, $40.

Total cost, less than $250. Whoops, forgot the paint, which is another $25.
And I own the saw and nailer, which are slick. I can use them for lots of
other projects.

Why do some people think they're worth so much?

I can understand hvac and electric and plumbing and some of the specialty
trades. What's so hard about doors and trim?

Steve

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"dpb" wrote in message ...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
...

The person who gave you the quote - how long did he say all this work
might take?
More to the point, how long did it take him and what was his hourly wage
(exclusive, of course, of taxes including self-employment/FICA/workmans
comp, health and other benefits, etc., etc, etc., ...?

--


It didn't take "him" any time at all, because the OP didn't have the guy do
the work.

"HIM" was referring to OP...to provide "him" w/ a proper frame of
reference...

--

SteveB wrote:

Just going over some proposals from a recently completing project ......

Hang six interior doors
Install baseboard in a 1,000 sf addition
Install door knobs and locks
Install door trim

NO PAINT OR TOUCH UP

$1,524 LABOR ONLY

I did the work myself. First doors I ever hung. A couple of burps, but the
doors work fine. Locks I know. Bought a second hand DeWalt compound miter
saw for $50. Bought a used Porter Cable nailer, $40.

Total cost, less than $250. Whoops, forgot the paint, which is another $25.
And I own the saw and nailer, which are slick. I can use them for lots of
other projects.

Why do some people think they're worth so much?

I can understand hvac and electric and plumbing and some of the specialty
trades. What's so hard about doors and trim?

Steve




License? Advertising? Vehicle? Insurance? Phone? Wages? Heck, the guy
probably also wants to
make a livng. What did you think a fair price?

"dpb" wrote in message ...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"dpb" wrote in message ...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
...

The person who gave you the quote - how long did he say all this work
might take?
More to the point, how long did it take him and what was his hourly wage
(exclusive, of course, of taxes including self-employment/FICA/workmans
comp, health and other benefits, etc., etc, etc., ...?

--


It didn't take "him" any time at all, because the OP didn't have the guy
do the work.

"HIM" was referring to OP...to provide "him" w/ a proper frame of
reference...

--


OK, but that's the other side of the coin. If I'm a neurosurgeon and my
time's worth (random guess) $1400 per hour, I'd have to be nuts to think I'd
be saving money by doing a $1500 home project myself if it means losing a
day of work.

I want to know how long the contractor said the work would take.

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
....
I want to know how long the contractor said the work would take.


Fine, but I was answering the original question -- "why do people think
they're worth so much?" -- if the OP will calculate his time even
reduced by some factor for the contractor's experience, he'll discover
that time isn't worth nearly as much as he thought it was...

--

On Jan 25, 3:02 pm, "SteveB" wrote:

Why do some people think they're worth so much?

I can understand hvac and electric and plumbing and some of the specialty
trades. What's so hard about doors and trim?


There is a large portion of society (the majority?) that can't fix
anything on their own. I feel so sorry for them.

Imagine what it would be like to walk out to your car on a cold
morning, put your key in the ignition, turn it, see that nothing
happened, and have absolutely no clue what might be wrong. What a
sense of helplessness that must be - when the only option is to call
for a tow and pay a repair bill. Total dependence on others.

There is a flip side, though.

I miss brushing my teeth in peace. Now as I perform the morning
ritual, instead of thinking of nothing more than the tasty toothpaste,
my mind is filled with images of well pumps, pitless adapters,
casings, polyethylene pipes, header tanks, pressure switches, copper,
valves, fittings, filters, drains, traps, tanks, baffles, terracotta
pipes, and gravel. I can't drive a car without a constant sense of
the thousands of parts - each one totally essential to the operation
of the vehicle - that can so easily fail at any moment.

I have to wonder how a medical doctor feels, knowing that the human
body is basically on the edge of death at any moment. The smallest
microvolts keeping the heart beating. Solitary nucleotides in endless
clumps of DNA, under constant attack by ambient radiation, each with a
sole responsibility of keeping cancer at bay. A never ending battle
of bacteria, fungi, and immune system all in a delicate balance. But,
it must satisfying to know how to fix it all.

On Jan 25, 5:17 pm, "Kirk R." wrote:

If you're satisfied with an unprofessional job, why pay a professional?


I've been dissatisfied with the quality and workmanship of everything
I've ever paid a "professional" to do. DIY quality should be *at
least* as good as professional.

Professionals just don't have the time to do a really nice job. A pro
tiler has to start and finish a bathroom remodel in two days. I have
two months of spare time if that's what it takes to make the results
perfect.

On Jan 25, 3:02 pm, "SteveB" wrote:
Why do some people think they're worth so much?

Simple: because those are the prices people are willing to pay.

A contractor can't stay in business if nobody will hire them. So the
fact that so many contractors exist, and have existed for many years,
makes it pretty obvious that people are willing to pay for them. The
people who tell contractors what they're "worth" are their customers.

And they pay those prices because a lot of people just don't want to
be bothered. What's wrong with that? I'd probably hang those doors
and install those locks myself too, but there are other things I
probably wouldn't do. (Installing windows, for instance, or a new
roof.) Who's to tell me what things I "should" do myself? There are
things we're all comfortable with and other things we're not and those
things are different for everybody. And if I feel like hanging doors
and installing trim and locksets is worth $1,500, then maybe I'll pay
that. If I don't, I won't.

So you're good at hanging doors and don't need a contractor. Good for
you. But nothing wrong with someone else who feels differently about
it.

On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 12:02:17 -0800, "SteveB"
wrote:

Just going over some proposals from a recently completing project ......

Hang six interior doors

Type? (pocket/game room glass pane French type)

8 foot solid core heavy *******s?

Install baseboard in a 1,000 sf addition

MDF/Oak/Maple?

Install door knobs and locks

Comes with the door install. At least by me!

Install door trim

Requires few fasteners.


NO PAINT OR TOUCH UP

$1,524 LABOR ONLY

I did the work myself. First doors I ever hung. A couple of burps, but the
doors work fine. Locks I know. Bought a second hand DeWalt compound miter
saw for $50. Bought a used Porter Cable nailer, $40.

Total cost, less than $250. Whoops, forgot the paint, which is another $25.
And I own the saw and nailer, which are slick. I can use them for lots of
other projects.

Why do some people think they're worth so much?

I can understand hvac and electric and plumbing and some of the specialty
trades. What's so hard about doors and trim?

Steve


I was lucky on my first door (exterior metal). The more I learn about
doors the less I know. Every one is different ) Carry many levels...

Oren
--

Robert Allison wrote:

SteveB wrote:
Just going over some proposals from a recently completing project ......

Hang six interior doors
Install baseboard in a 1,000 sf addition
Install door knobs and locks
Install door trim

NO PAINT OR TOUCH UP

$1,524 LABOR ONLY

I did the work myself. First doors I ever hung. A couple of burps, but the
doors work fine. Locks I know. Bought a second hand DeWalt compound miter
saw for $50. Bought a used Porter Cable nailer, $40.

Total cost, less than $250. Whoops, forgot the paint, which is another $25.
And I own the saw and nailer, which are slick. I can use them for lots of
other projects.

Why do some people think they're worth so much?

I can understand hvac and electric and plumbing and some of the specialty
trades. What's so hard about doors and trim?

Steve



What is so hard about HVAC, electrical and plumbing?

Nothing at all, which is why I do all that myself. The savings in labor
costs offsets the fact that I use higher grade parts.

"Kirk R." wrote in message
...
The Reverend Natural Light wrote:
On Jan 25, 5:17 pm, "Kirk R." wrote:
If you're satisfied with an unprofessional job, why pay a professional?


I've been dissatisfied with the quality and workmanship of everything
I've ever paid a "professional" to do. DIY quality should be *at
least* as good as professional.

Professionals just don't have the time to do a really nice job. A pro
tiler has to start and finish a bathroom remodel in two days. I have
two months of spare time if that's what it takes to make the results
perfect.


Most DIYers are satisfied with their projects. But, they wouldn't know
where they messed up, unless their mistakes are pointed out by a
professional.
It's unfortunate, you do not know the meaning of a professional. A
professional always does the job correct, regardless the field or nature
of work.
If you don't know how to hire a professional, at least consult with
someone, which knows the industry and can hire a professional for you. As
you pointed out, you didn't know how to hire a professional, and the work
preformed can be very disappointing. Unfortunately, a large part of the
blame is on you. Thanks for sharing some of life's lessons.

What a bunch of crap. You must be a "professional". If everyone believed
this crap you could charge double.

"Kirk R." wrote:

The Reverend Natural Light wrote:
On Jan 25, 5:17 pm, "Kirk R." wrote:
If you're satisfied with an unprofessional job, why pay a professional?


I've been dissatisfied with the quality and workmanship of everything
I've ever paid a "professional" to do. DIY quality should be *at
least* as good as professional.

Professionals just don't have the time to do a really nice job. A pro
tiler has to start and finish a bathroom remodel in two days. I have
two months of spare time if that's what it takes to make the results
perfect.


Most DIYers are satisfied with their projects. But, they wouldn't know
where they messed up, unless their mistakes are pointed out by a
professional.

It's unfortunate, you do not know the meaning of a professional. A
professional always does the job correct, regardless the field or nature
of work.

If you don't know how to hire a professional, at least consult with
someone, which knows the industry and can hire a professional for you.
As you pointed out, you didn't know how to hire a professional, and the
work preformed can be very disappointing. Unfortunately, a large part of
the blame is on you. Thanks for sharing some of life's lessons.

I've seen many jobs of various types done by professionals that were not
up to my DIY standards, which is another reasons I DIY pretty much
everything.

When I DIY I know the job will be done not only 100% correctly, but also
to my standards which exceed code minimums that a professional would
typically work to. I use higher quality materials as well, such as
Square D QO panels, vs. the low end brands many professionals would
install.

My work is done to a higher level of detail and neatness than that of
many professionals I've seen. My DIY work also is completed in nearly
the same time frame as that of most professionals, perhaps 25% longer at
most for jobs I'm in no hurry on.

Certainly DIY isn't appropriate for everyone, but neither is
professional always better than DIY.

"Moo" wrote

What a bunch of crap. You must be a "professional". If everyone
believed this crap you could charge double.

I am a professional in my field, which is not construction. So, I totally
understand Kirk's point.

In most fields, newbies, apprentices, and such have a _lot_ to learn before
becoming a professional. All of us must start at the beginning, and it
takes years to become a professional.

I wouldn't dream of going back and starting at an inexperienced wage and
having to start at the beginning. Although, even being a professional,
learning new & better techiniques is an every day occurrence.

Practice doesn't make perfect, but perfect practice does. Exactly, what
don't you understand about being a professional?

On Jan 25, 6:04 pm, "Kirk R." wrote:

But, they wouldn't know
where they messed up, unless their mistakes are pointed out by a
professional.


It's pretty easy to tell if a wall is straight, a door closes, a
drywall joint is smooth, or a grout line is correct. This work isn't
rocket science.


It's unfortunate, you do not know the meaning of a professional. A
professional always does the job correct, regardless the field or nature
of work.


A professional does enough work to get paid and then leaves. They
don't have to live with the results.

As you pointed out, you didn't know how to hire a professional, and the
work preformed can be very disappointing. Unfortunately, a large part of
the blame is on you. Thanks for sharing some of life's lessons.

Sounds like I struck a nerve. You must be a contractor.

I can do *anything* any pro can do and I can do a better job - but -
it will take me 20 times as long to finish. I'm not doing it for a
paycheck. And I couldn't do it for a paycheck.

Comments inserted.


"The Reverend Natural Light" wrote
But, they wouldn't know
where they messed up, unless their mistakes are pointed out by a
professional.


It's pretty easy to tell if a wall is straight, a door closes, a
drywall joint is smooth, or a grout line is correct. This work isn't
rocket science.

Reading over the comments in this thread, I can't help but comment on your
silly comments.

I'm not in the construction business, but, even I know there is more to a
wall than being straight. Plumb comes to mind.

Not only must a door close, the gap reveal must be symmetrical, and hit
symmetrical on the stop. There must be no binding on the hinges when
opening or closing.



It's unfortunate, you do not know the meaning of a professional. A
professional always does the job correct, regardless the field or nature
of work.


A professional does enough work to get paid and then leaves. They
don't have to live with the results.


You sir, are an idiot. You either do not work, or have never held
meaningful employment. You entirely miss Kirk's point of being a
professional.



As you pointed out, you didn't know how to hire a professional, and the
work preformed can be very disappointing. Unfortunately, a large part of
the blame is on you. Thanks for sharing some of life's lessons.

Sounds like I struck a nerve. You must be a contractor.

I can do *anything* any pro can do and I can do a better job - but -
it will take me 20 times as long to finish. I'm not doing it for a
paycheck. And I couldn't do it for a paycheck.

I'm not a contractor, but I smell a wannabe.

"Robert Allison" wrote in message
news:GQqmj.131$ar6.84@trnddc07...
SteveB wrote:
Just going over some proposals from a recently completing project ......

Hang six interior doors
Install baseboard in a 1,000 sf addition
Install door knobs and locks
Install door trim

NO PAINT OR TOUCH UP

$1,524 LABOR ONLY

I did the work myself. First doors I ever hung. A couple of burps, but
the doors work fine. Locks I know. Bought a second hand DeWalt compound
miter saw for $50. Bought a used Porter Cable nailer, $40.

Total cost, less than $250. Whoops, forgot the paint, which is another
$25. And I own the saw and nailer, which are slick. I can use them for
lots of other projects.

Why do some people think they're worth so much?

I can understand hvac and electric and plumbing and some of the specialty
trades. What's so hard about doors and trim?

Steve

What is so hard about HVAC, electrical and plumbing?

--
Robert Allison

There's a big cost if they're not done right.

Steve

"dpb" wrote in message ...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
...

The person who gave you the quote - how long did he say all this work
might take?

More to the point, how long did it take him and what was his hourly wage
(exclusive, of course, of taxes including self-employment/FICA/workmans
comp, health and other benefits, etc., etc, etc., ...?

--

Your reading comprehension sucks, dudes. I DID THE WORK MYSELF. I did not
offer to hire the man as a handyman at an hourly rate.

Steve

"dpb" wrote in message ...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
...
I want to know how long the contractor said the work would take.


Fine, but I was answering the original question -- "why do people think
they're worth so much?" -- if the OP will calculate his time even reduced
by some factor for the contractor's experience, he'll discover that time
isn't worth nearly as much as he thought it was...

I can see you are ignorant of contracting. In a contract, you say, "I will
build your spare bedroom for $6,789." Notice the period. There's usually a
deadline for completion, but no hourly rate is quoted. A total price for a
specified job is a contract. Other than that, it qualifies as hourly
handyman rate. Any time either of the two parties is dissatisfied, they can
part. In a contract, things are entirely different.

But you knew that, right?

Steve

"Kirk R." wrote in message
...
SteveB wrote:
Just going over some proposals from a recently completing project ......

Hang six interior doors
Install baseboard in a 1,000 sf addition
Install door knobs and locks
Install door trim

NO PAINT OR TOUCH UP

$1,524 LABOR ONLY

I did the work myself. First doors I ever hung. A couple of burps, but
the doors work fine. Locks I know. Bought a second hand DeWalt compound
miter saw for $50. Bought a used Porter Cable nailer, $40.

Total cost, less than $250. Whoops, forgot the paint, which is another
$25. And I own the saw and nailer, which are slick. I can use them for
lots of other projects.

Why do some people think they're worth so much?

I can understand hvac and electric and plumbing and some of the specialty
trades. What's so hard about doors and trim?

Steve

Exactly. I got an estimate to paint my car, $3,750.00. I bought a couple
of gallons of SW, a brush & roller, total cost: $60.00

Another example is, a landscaper wanted $80 each time to cut my lawn. I
have grandma doing it for free. Reminds me, I'm going to have to go out
and see how she's coming along. Haven't seen her for a couple of days.

If you're satisfied with an unprofessional job, why pay a professional?

Exactly. Why pay someone what comes out to over fifty dollars an hour for
something so simple as hanging doors, installing baseboard and putting on
locks?

Steve

"Kirk R." wrote in message
...
The Reverend Natural Light wrote:
On Jan 25, 5:17 pm, "Kirk R." wrote:
If you're satisfied with an unprofessional job, why pay a professional?


I've been dissatisfied with the quality and workmanship of everything
I've ever paid a "professional" to do. DIY quality should be *at
least* as good as professional.

Professionals just don't have the time to do a really nice job. A pro
tiler has to start and finish a bathroom remodel in two days. I have
two months of spare time if that's what it takes to make the results
perfect.


Most DIYers are satisfied with their projects. But, they wouldn't know
where they messed up, unless their mistakes are pointed out by a
professional.

It's unfortunate, you do not know the meaning of a professional. A
professional always does the job correct, regardless the field or nature
of work.

If you don't know how to hire a professional, at least consult with
someone, which knows the industry and can hire a professional for you. As
you pointed out, you didn't know how to hire a professional, and the work
preformed can be very disappointing. Unfortunately, a large part of the
blame is on you. Thanks for sharing some of life's lessons.

"A professional always does the job correct, regardless the field or nature
of the work"?

Boy, you've either been smoking some REALLY GOOD **** or you are not from
this solar system. Which is it?

Steve

"U.L. Tested" wrote in message ...

"Moo" wrote

What a bunch of crap. You must be a "professional". If everyone
believed this crap you could charge double.

I am a professional in my field, which is not construction. So, I totally
understand Kirk's point.

In most fields, newbies, apprentices, and such have a _lot_ to learn
before becoming a professional. All of us must start at the beginning, and
it takes years to become a professional.

I wouldn't dream of going back and starting at an inexperienced wage and
having to start at the beginning. Although, even being a professional,
learning new & better techiniques is an every day occurrence.

Practice doesn't make perfect, but perfect practice does. Exactly, what
don't you understand about being a professional?

How long do YOU think it would take a person of average intelligence to
learn to hang prehung doors, cut baseboard, and install indoor passage
locksets? With good tools.

Steve

SteveB wrote:
"Kirk R." wrote in message
...

If you're satisfied with an unprofessional job, why pay a
professional?

Exactly. Why pay someone what comes out to over fifty dollars an
hour for something so simple as hanging doors, installing baseboard
and putting on locks?

I can think of three possible reasons:

1. The hirer hasn't a clue as to how to do the work

2. The hirer has no desire to do the work

3. The hirer knows that some things that seem simple aren't. Hanging
doors, for example. How many DIY know how to use shims? Know that
their purpose is not just to fill space but to tweak jambs
perpendicular to the wall and themselves? In the case of baseboards,
how many know how to spile? Cope inside corners? Or *why* inside
corners should be coped? Hmm?

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

How long did he say the work would take to complete? Why are you
afraid to answer this simple, yet revealing question, Steve?

He's too busy admiring his cheapo HD doors, tinny passage locks and
MDF baseboards.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

SteveB wrote:

"U.L. Tested" wrote in message ...

"Moo" wrote

What a bunch of crap. You must be a "professional". If everyone
believed this crap you could charge double.

I am a professional in my field, which is not construction. So, I totally
understand Kirk's point.

In most fields, newbies, apprentices, and such have a _lot_ to learn
before becoming a professional. All of us must start at the beginning, and
it takes years to become a professional.

I wouldn't dream of going back and starting at an inexperienced wage and
having to start at the beginning. Although, even being a professional,
learning new & better techiniques is an every day occurrence.

Practice doesn't make perfect, but perfect practice does. Exactly, what
don't you understand about being a professional?

How long do YOU think it would take a person of average intelligence to
learn to hang prehung doors, cut baseboard, and install indoor passage
locksets? With good tools.

Steve

Highly variable. Since our failing public schools no longer teach any
manual skills, most of the public has no exposure to actually doing
anything physical. Some people would learn and get it right in a couple
days, other could keep trying for months and still not get it right.

On Jan 26, 2:10 am, "SteveB" wrote:
"marson" wrote in message

...



On Jan 25, 2:02 pm, "SteveB" wrote:
Just going over some proposals from a recently completing project ......

Hang six interior doors
Install baseboard in a 1,000 sf addition
Install door knobs and locks
Install door trim

NO PAINT OR TOUCH UP

$1,524 LABOR ONLY

I did the work myself. First doors I ever hung. A couple of burps, but
the
doors work fine. Locks I know. Bought a second hand DeWalt compound
miter
saw for $50. Bought a used Porter Cable nailer, $40.

Total cost, less than $250. Whoops, forgot the paint, which is another
$25.
And I own the saw and nailer, which are slick. I can use them for lots
of
other projects.

Why do some people think they're worth so much?

I can understand hvac and electric and plumbing and some of the specialty
trades. What's so hard about doors and trim?

Steve

For the simple reason that they need to make a living. While the
amount they charge may seem high, consider that it is their total
compensation package: Overhead (truck and tools), bookkeeping,
liability insurance, license, worker's comp, medical, vacation, sick
pay, etc. A good rule of thumb for a self employed person is that the
real take home is about half of the hourly rate--that is, a self
employed carpenter that is charging 30 bucks and hour is doing as well
as the guy making 15 bucks and hour at a regular job.

On the other had, judging from the tone of your post, they may have
smelled that you are a jerk and charged accordingly. That's what I
would have done.

Been there, done that, got the T shirt. Was a steel erection contractor.
And no, I wouldn't show up with a truck full of equipment and two men for
less than $800 a day. But we were doing REAL work requiring NDT and
industrial inspector's approval, and not using very simple hand tools to do
a VERY simple job that a teen ager could be taught in a week.

Jerk? Hardly. Just someone who can smell a rat. I'm a jerk for asking him
to come into my home, and do work for money? And then I'm a jerk for not
paying a lot of money for a little work?

If that's what you would have done, then you would have been sitting there
idle while your overhead motor was running ............ intake zero, outgo
passing sixty ........... just like he did. He preferred to stay at home
instead of work. Living a half assed life in a manufactured home on
relative's property, and getting unemployment about three months a year.
Driving a piece of **** truck, and living a underachiever life.

Whatever winds yer clock.

Hardly a jerk? My mind's made up.

In article , JoeSpareBedroom says...

"dpb" wrote in message ...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"dpb" wrote in message ...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
...

The person who gave you the quote - how long did he say all this work
might take?
More to the point, how long did it take him and what was his hourly wage
(exclusive, of course, of taxes including self-employment/FICA/workmans
comp, health and other benefits, etc., etc, etc., ...?

--


It didn't take "him" any time at all, because the OP didn't have the guy
do the work.

"HIM" was referring to OP...to provide "him" w/ a proper frame of
reference...

--


OK, but that's the other side of the coin. If I'm a neurosurgeon and my
time's worth (random guess) $1400 per hour, I'd have to be nuts to think I'd
be saving money by doing a $1500 home project myself if it means losing a
day of work.

I want to know how long the contractor said the work would take.



Yeah, I'm an engineer ("I are an engineer") and I do count my time againt what I
pay, and it's usually a positive equation.

That said, I'd do my own locks, and doors and baseboards probably would be
folded into another bigger project I hire out. The carpentry skills are ones
that I just don't have the time or wherewithall to develop. Think, the first
time doing the baseboards - I'd be going through some trial and error or at
least proceeding very slowly, then never doing that again for a long time.

That said, the OP quote does sound like a lot - presumably he got more quotes.
Mebbe the contractor put on a PIA 'combat pay' bonus for himself... ;-)

Banty

"SteveB" wrote in message

Exactly. Why pay someone what comes out to over fifty dollars an hour for
something so simple as hanging doors, installing baseboard and putting on
locks?

Steve

Just two of may possible reasons.

You don't have the skill to DIY
You can earn $100 an hour at your skill/trade while paying someone $50 to
use theirs.

Not everyone has, or wants, the skills needed to hang a door. While you are
evidently fully capable, others are not. Just as you don't have the skills
to do some other jobs.

On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 08:59:54 -0500, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:


"SteveB" wrote in message

Exactly. Why pay someone what comes out to over fifty dollars an hour for
something so simple as hanging doors, installing baseboard and putting on
locks?

Steve

Just two of may possible reasons.

You don't have the skill to DIY
You can earn $100 an hour at your skill/trade while paying someone $50 to
use theirs.

Not everyone has, or wants, the skills needed to hang a door. While you are
evidently fully capable, others are not. Just as you don't have the skills
to do some other jobs.


Even if you are a skilled DIY'er, it is good to hire a professional
the first time you do something complex. My pride can allow me to
admit not knowing all of the fine details and techniques of every
possible task in my home improvement projects on the first time that I
do them.

Bernardo

In article , Bernardo Gui wrote:

Even if you are a skilled DIY'er, it is good to hire a professional
the first time you do something complex. My pride can allow me to
admit not knowing all of the fine details and techniques of every
possible task in my home improvement projects on the first time that I
do them.

Amen! Part of our kitchen renovation on house 2.0 involved removing a
large window, and filling in the hole. Redwood clapboard siding on the outside
(which I am perfectly competent to repair), and plaster walls on the inside
(which I was not). Patching small holes in plaster walls, sure -- but filling
in a 42x60 inch cavity? Naaah. Especially since the lower 2/3 of the kitchen
walls had a faux-brick pattern tooled into the whitecoat. I hired a pro for
that. And told him, when he came out to quote the job, that one of the
conditions of getting the job was letting me watch, and ask questions, while
he worked.

He agreed. And what I learned from watching and listening was easily worth the
price of the repair.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article , "SteveB" wrote:

Funny thing, though. This guy lives two doors down from me. I notice that
during the time I'm doing this job, his truck and work trailer are sitting
at his house. If he had given me a reasonable price, I'd have had him do
the work. I consider over $300 a day for very simple work to be
unreasonable. I guess he considers working for less than $300 a day to be
unreasonable, so he sits at home and makes zero.

$300 / 8 hours = $37.50/hour. If the guy is self-employed (and thus paying
both sides of the FICA tax), then taxes alone eat about 1/3 of that. Down to
$25 an hour already. Now subtract whatever he has to pay for insurance
(liability, health, disability). Just a guess here, but that probably leaves
him below $20 an hour.

Still think it's unreasonable?

But I get the last laugh when he asks if I'm ready to have that work done
and I get to say I did it myself.

Who laughs in the end may depend on how good a job you did... g

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Doug Miller wrote:

In article , Bernardo Gui wrote:

Even if you are a skilled DIY'er, it is good to hire a professional
the first time you do something complex. My pride can allow me to
admit not knowing all of the fine details and techniques of every
possible task in my home improvement projects on the first time that I
do them.

Amen! Part of our kitchen renovation on house 2.0 involved removing a
large window, and filling in the hole. Redwood clapboard siding on the outside
(which I am perfectly competent to repair), and plaster walls on the inside
(which I was not). Patching small holes in plaster walls, sure -- but filling
in a 42x60 inch cavity? Naaah. Especially since the lower 2/3 of the kitchen
walls had a faux-brick pattern tooled into the whitecoat. I hired a pro for
that. And told him, when he came out to quote the job, that one of the
conditions of getting the job was letting me watch, and ask questions, while
he worked.

He agreed. And what I learned from watching and listening was easily worth the
price of the repair.

Absolutely learning from watching pros is very helpful. Reading "pro"
reference books also helps a lot as can lurking in some of the
non-dysfunctional "pro" forums.

I am something of a "certified jack of all trades" and I generally find
the couple days of research it typically takes me to learn about
something I haven't done before is still cheaper than hiring a pro.

While your time has value, if you are salary, your "free" time really is
since you can't be working your regular job for overtime pay. Even if
you aren't salary, if you don't actually have regular work available to
potentially do during your "free" time, your "free" time is still free,
even if your regular work time is $500/hr.

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "SteveB" wrote:
....
... I consider over $300 a day for very simple work to be
unreasonable. I guess he considers working for less than $300 a day to be
unreasonable, so he sits at home and makes zero.

$300 / 8 hours = $37.50/hour. ...

Or, if he does work 2000 hrs/year on average, that's only 75K gross --
certainly not an extravagant standard of living. Wonder what the OP
takes home and if that's too much (or maybe his work isn't "very
simple")...

--

"SteveB" wrote in message
...


How long did he say the work would take to complete? Why are you
afraid to answer this simple, yet revealing question, Steve?


He didn't say how long it would take him. Probably because he knew I
could use a calculator.

Steve



What do you do for a living and how much do you get paid?

"SteveB" wrote in message
...

"dpb" wrote in message ...
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "SteveB"
wrote:
...
... I consider over $300 a day for very simple work to be unreasonable.
I guess he considers working for less than $300 a day to be
unreasonable, so he sits at home and makes zero.

$300 / 8 hours = $37.50/hour. ...

Or, if he does work 2000 hrs/year on average, that's only 75K gross --
certainly not an extravagant standard of living. Wonder what the OP
takes home and if that's too much (or maybe his work isn't "very
simple")...

I'm retired. Life is structured. Living trusts, family trusts, LLCs. If
I need or want something, I just go put it on a credit card. The
accountant takes care of it. I'm conservative on spending, so the
principal keeps working. I avoid things that are wastes of money. As
long as I don't get stupid, the principal keeps snowballing.

Stupid like paying people $50 an hour to do monkey work. I saved about a
thousand on this job by my calculations. I saved $1400 on the drywall by
running off the stupid Mexicans someone had doing the work at an inflated
price and hiring an experienced rocker who is a retired friend of mine.


Drywall? Your original list only mentioned these procedures:

Hang six interior doors
Install baseboard in a 1,000 sf addition
Install door knobs and locks
Install door trim

Is this a different project you're talking about now, with the drywall?

In article , "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
Drywall? Your original list only mentioned these procedures:

Hang six interior doors
Install baseboard in a 1,000 sf addition
Install door knobs and locks
Install door trim

Is this a different project you're talking about now, with the drywall?

Yes, it's a different project. He was whining about here some six months ago.

Funny thing about Steve... every time he thinks somebody's trying to screw
him, he bitches and moans for weeks. He's also the same guy who, about a year
ago, was bragging here about how he screwed Home Depot on a couple of doors.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article , "SteveB" wrote:

"dpb" wrote in message ...
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "SteveB"
wrote:
...
... I consider over $300 a day for very simple work to be unreasonable.
I guess he considers working for less than $300 a day to be
unreasonable, so he sits at home and makes zero.

$300 / 8 hours = $37.50/hour. ...

Or, if he does work 2000 hrs/year on average, that's only 75K gross --
certainly not an extravagant standard of living. Wonder what the OP takes
home and if that's too much (or maybe his work isn't "very simple")...

I'm retired. Life is structured. Living trusts, family trusts, LLCs. If I
need or want something, I just go put it on a credit card. The accountant
takes care of it. I'm conservative on spending, so the principal keeps
working. I avoid things that are wastes of money. As long as I don't get
stupid, the principal keeps snowballing.

Stupid like paying people $50 an hour to do monkey work.

Maybe you'd better dig out that calculator that you supposedly know how to
use, then, cause you sure can't do math in your head. $300 a day doesn't equal
$50 an hour.

I saved about a
thousand on this job by my calculations.

As long as you did as good a job as the pro would have done, yes.

But I wonder...

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.