Red wrote:
On Jan 12, 10:01 am, Kevin Ricks wrote:
Isn't that limited to people who have NO TV source other than antenna?
Here is a quote from the official web site:https://www.dtv2009.gov/

.... but supplies are limited. There are 22.25 million coupons available
to all U.S. households. Once those coupons have been used, there are an
additional 11.25 million coupons available only to households that
solely receive their TV broadcasts over-the-air using an antenna.
Households with TVs connected to cable, satellite or other pay TV
service are not eligible for this second batch of coupons. Consumers can
apply for coupons until March 31, 2009, or until the funds are exhausted.
.....


Apparently no one is concerned that the analog VCR's are going to be
obsolete also. As I understand it, they will no longer be able to be
programmed for multiple OTA channels, but limited to the single
channel that the converter box is set to. Correct??
Correct, channel 3-4, but hopefully the converter box also has the jacks
for the 3-wire RCA component cables. Fancy converter boxes may have a
timer with channel chooser. If your TV setup is OTA only, taping stuff
on vacation will likely be limited to one channel, if you have a
entry-level converter box.

Using a VCR on a satt box is already a pain. They really, really want
VCRs and other stand-alone time shifting devices to Go Away, and for
everyone to just get used to paying a monthly fee to be able to do what
they used to be able to do on their own.

aem (who owns at least 3 vcrs, but hasn't looked in the junk room
lately), sends...

wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 18:36:35 -0600, (Chris)
wrote:

Hello all....not sure where to ask this question but I know there are
alot of knowledgible people in this group so here goes.

I have a 27" Toshiba flat screen (#27AF44) I bought in 2004, it has a
real good picture,. I'm trying to figure out if this televison is
digital or not? I've done some research but still not sure.
I know it has a 3-line digital comb filter, but not sure that makes
it a digital tv?

As we know...in 2009 all tv's must be digital to function with new
digital signal in 09. I have the website to order a digital converter
box but want to make sure if this Toshiba is digital ready or....it's
not?
I would call best buy but figure they won't know or I would get
run-around, they probably don't carry this model anymore.
TIA.

To answer your question, I highly doubt a 2003 or 2004 model has a
digital tuner. If you use an antenna, you will need to buy one of
those add-on boxes. Dont waste your time with Best Buy. All they
know is how to take your money. I quit doing business with that place
years ago, at least as far as electronics. I might buy some blank CDs
or VHS tapes or a cable from them if the price is right, but thats
about all.

As far as this whole change to digital, this whole topic ****es me off
to no end. It goes something like this. The cellphone companies have
run out of air space. They knew that the current TV channels are
their only place to expand. It seems that no one really knows how
much they paid the government to steal our tv airwaves, but I'm sure
it was a sizable amount. The govt. is claiming that they need this
air space for emergency communications, but dont be fooled by their
lies. It's all going to be used for cellphones, so that these cell
companies can make sure that every child under the age of 18 has one
to text each other and cause disruptions in schools. Of course these
cell companies are getting filthy rich from all these kids using their
useless "toys".

Then, one wonders how much the cable and satellite tv companies paid
the gov't to bribe them to make this change. I'm sure they will
benefit in a big way as soon as people can no longer get reception
from their antenna.

The whole thing is a conspiracy, and while the gov't is offering
coupons valued at $40 toward these convertors, the consumer will still
have to pay at least $50 more, unless the prices drop on them. I'd
not be happy if the gov't paid ALL of the cost for these convertors,
because I will still not be able to use my 12volt (and "D" battery
powered) portable tv when I go camping, and I will have to have yet
another remote control to locate at home, and TWO of them will be
required to control the tv.

On top of that, those with numerous tv's in the home will have to buy
one convertor for EACH tv, and you may be paying the FULL price for
each one of them, because the gov't only allows 2 coupons per home.

In addition to this, those who live in rural areas and are already in
fringe areas for reception, (like myself), may find the convertors
will not work at all, and we will no longer have tv. I will mention
that I do not have cable tv as an option either, since it ooes not
exist out here in farm country. Satellite would be my only option at
around $100 per month. I may end up being only able to get the news
on my dialup internet connection, because there will not be any other
connection to the world.

They commercials which they keep airing for DTV.gov claim that digital
tv is so superior, blah blah blah. What they're really doing is
brainwashing us so that we just accept their bull**** without
complaining or protest. The present air waves have been in use since
the beginning of television, and they always worked fine. Now the
gov't is going to steal them from us so that private companies can
profit from them. This is one of the biggest scams of the 21st
century, yet few people are protesting.

If you're as angry as I am about this whole thing, dont just idley sit
on your couch potato ass, and do nothing. We have about one year to
stop this theft of our air waves, or many of us will lose our tv
signals. We need to organize and protest, and do so now. Begin by
going to DTV.gov, and using the "comments/questions" option, where you
can email them. DO email them, and tell them exactly how you feel in
no uncertain terms. I did this a few months ago. I received a reply
email and was just repeated more of the same bull**** lies on their
site. I'm now writing them an actual hard copy letter, and will be
trying to encourage EVERYONE to protest. I'd like to ask everyone to
do the same. It only takes a few minutes of time to email them, and
write them, or phone them, and express your dissatisfaction. Our air
waves are being STOLEN from us. Don't just sit there and let them get
away with it. We've already seen them start a war in our names, under
false pretences, rob our wallets with inflated gas prices, and cause
much more disruption in our country. If we dont start fighting back,
we will soon not even recognize America as it was originally designed,
and we will have less rights than most foreign countries.

You might think that the theft of our tv airwaves is minor compared to
the war, and to gas prices, etc., and in many ways it is. But it's
just another step in losing our rights. What will be next? Will they
start charging us to breathe? That might sound funny, but don't laugh
too long, it might be next.

PROTEST DTV.GOV NOW !!!!!!!

Wow, you're just full of misinformation and BS.

wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 20:29:27 -0600, (Chris)
wrote:

Thanks for the input everyone....Yeah, thats what I thought it might
be non-digital.
and yes I'm using the free deal with the rabbit ears....I get enough
channels that way and prefer to keep it free....the local cable co
(cox) just wants too much.
Anyway...here's the website for the converter box...
DTV Answers : DTV Converter Box Details
Address:http://www.dtvanswers.com/dtv_converterbox.html
So if I go with their deal it should only cost me like $20 after
coupon to keep my Toshiba up and running in the year 2009. But on
the bright side they claim you will get more channels with better
quality picture. Thanks!

Looks like they did a good job of brainwashing YOU !!!!

And just where are you seeing these boxes for $60?
The least price I have seen thus far are selling for around $100.

An when you are at DTV.gov be sure to use the part entitled "locate a
local store to purchase the converter" (not necessarily those exact
words). When you get there, there are ZERO places listed for any part
of the country. Just shows how little they know or care.....

According to the mapper on antennaweb.org I will not get ANY digital
stations. I currently get 3 analog stations fairly well, (two local,
plus PBS) and 2 more that are poor quality at best, sometimes do not
come in at all. My closest tv station is 55 miles away.

PROTEST DTV.gov NOW !!!!!

I'd rather protest assholes. I protest you!

wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:34:09 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:47:38 -0800 (PST), Red
wrote:

On Jan 12, 10:01 am, Kevin Ricks wrote:

Isn't that limited to people who have NO TV source other than
antenna?

Here is a quote from the official web site:https://www.dtv2009.gov/

.... but supplies are limited. There are 22.25 million coupons
available to all U.S. households. Once those coupons have been
used, there are an additional 11.25 million coupons available only
to households that solely receive their TV broadcasts over-the-air
using an antenna. Households with TVs connected to cable,
satellite or other pay TV service are not eligible for this second
batch of coupons. Consumers can apply for coupons until March 31,
2009, or until the funds are exhausted. .....


Apparently no one is concerned that the analog VCR's are going to be
obsolete also. As I understand it, they will no longer be able to
be programmed for multiple OTA channels, but limited to the single
channel that the converter box is set to. Correct??

Yes, this is correct. You will have to set the convertor to the
channel you want to record, and can only record that channel, until
you reset the programming or change the convertor channel.

VCR's? Are you worried about your 8-track player and phonograph,
too? Time marches on. At some point you have to make at least a
minimal effort to keep up, or expect to be left behind.

No one really cares about your attitude. If you want to "keep up"
feel free to do so, some of us like things the way they were, and for
clearity, I still do enjoy my vinyl records. If anyone ends up being
left behind, it's people with your attitude, because one of these days
you'll be old and will realize that your whole life was wasted trying
to keep up with the Joneses.

BOYCOTT DTV.gov NOW !!!!!

What's that? You're getting too far away to hear! Shout it again,
before you get too far away and disappear.

wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 13:58:51 -0600, wrote:

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:34:09 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:47:38 -0800 (PST), Red
wrote:

On Jan 12, 10:01 am, Kevin Ricks wrote:

Isn't that limited to people who have NO TV source other than
antenna?

Here is a quote from the official web
site:https://www.dtv2009.gov/

.... but supplies are limited. There are 22.25 million coupons
available to all U.S. households. Once those coupons have been
used, there are an additional 11.25 million coupons available
only to households that solely receive their TV broadcasts
over-the-air using an antenna. Households with TVs connected to
cable, satellite or other pay TV service are not eligible for
this second batch of coupons. Consumers can apply for coupons
until March 31, 2009, or until the funds are exhausted. .....


Apparently no one is concerned that the analog VCR's are going to
be obsolete also. As I understand it, they will no longer be able
to be programmed for multiple OTA channels, but limited to the
single channel that the converter box is set to. Correct??

Yes, this is correct. You will have to set the convertor to the
channel you want to record, and can only record that channel, until
you reset the programming or change the convertor channel.

VCR's? Are you worried about your 8-track player and phonograph,
too? Time marches on. At some point you have to make at least a
minimal effort to keep up, or expect to be left behind.

No one really cares about your attitude. If you want to "keep up"
feel free to do so, some of us like things the way they were, and for
clearity, I still do enjoy my vinyl records. If anyone ends up being
left behind, it's people with your attitude, because one of these
days you'll be old and will realize that your whole life was wasted
trying to keep up with the Joneses.

BOYCOTT DTV.gov NOW !!!!!

I have some bad news for you. When your current ice man dies, you are
gonna have to get one of those new-fangled refrigerator thingys.

You struggle far more resisting change than I do welcoming it. And
I'm not anywhere near "young".

You're also not anywhere near intelligent or open minded or technically
educated. You sound more like a phobe, actually.

Bob wrote:
Red wrote:

Apparently no one is concerned that the analog VCR's are going to be
obsolete also. As I understand it, they will no longer be able to be
programmed for multiple OTA channels, but limited to the single
channel that the converter box is set to. Correct??

Red is correct here. However, converter boxes may be available with
timers that change the channel at a predetermined time, as some cable
and satellite set-top boxes do. You can get a new VCR (or VCR/DVD
combo) with a built-in ATSC tuner, but those won't be eligible for the
$40 coupon discount.

Jeez, do some research and figure out what you're talking about!

wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 13:58:51 -0600, wrote:

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:34:09 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:47:38 -0800 (PST), Red wrote:

On Jan 12, 10:01 am, Kevin Ricks wrote:
Isn't that limited to people who have NO TV source other than antenna?
Here is a quote from the official web site:https://www.dtv2009.gov/

.... but supplies are limited. There are 22.25 million coupons available
to all U.S. households. Once those coupons have been used, there are an
additional 11.25 million coupons available only to households that
solely receive their TV broadcasts over-the-air using an antenna.
Households with TVs connected to cable, satellite or other pay TV
service are not eligible for this second batch of coupons. Consumers can
apply for coupons until March 31, 2009, or until the funds are exhausted.
.....

Apparently no one is concerned that the analog VCR's are going to be
obsolete also. As I understand it, they will no longer be able to be
programmed for multiple OTA channels, but limited to the single
channel that the converter box is set to. Correct??
Yes, this is correct. You will have to set the convertor to the
channel you want to record, and can only record that channel, until
you reset the programming or change the convertor channel.

VCR's? Are you worried about your 8-track player and phonograph, too? Time
marches on. At some point you have to make at least a minimal effort to keep up,
or expect to be left behind.
No one really cares about your attitude. If you want to "keep up"
feel free to do so, some of us like things the way they were, and for
clearity, I still do enjoy my vinyl records. If anyone ends up being
left behind, it's people with your attitude, because one of these days
you'll be old and will realize that your whole life was wasted trying
to keep up with the Joneses.

BOYCOTT DTV.gov NOW !!!!!

I have some bad news for you. When your current ice man dies, you are gonna have
to get one of those new-fangled refrigerator thingys.

You struggle far more resisting change than I do welcoming it. And I'm not
anywhere near "young".


I don't resist change, I'm just not in any hurry to go out looking for
it. My obsolete technology still works fine. When it craps out, I'll
replace it with whatever the current technology is. But by all means,
you go ahead and pay top dollar for the latest and greatest. Folks like
you are what brings the price of new stuff down, for folks like me. I
can wait a couple of years to save probably a third on the price.

(Not like I need any more excuses to waste any more time watching the
idiot box than I already do, after all.)

aem sends...

On Sat 12 Jan 2008 10:47:38a, Red told us...

On Jan 12, 10:01*am, Kevin Ricks wrote:

Isn't that limited to people who have NO TV source other than antenna?

Here is a quote from the official web site:https://www.dtv2009.gov/

.... but supplies are limited. There are 22.25 million coupons available
to all U.S. households. Once those coupons have been used, there are an
additional 11.25 million coupons available only to households that
solely receive their TV broadcasts over-the-air using an antenna.
Households with TVs connected to cable, satellite or other pay TV
service are not eligible for this second batch of coupons. Consumers can
apply for coupons until March 31, 2009, or until the funds are
exhausted.
.....


Apparently no one is concerned that the analog VCR's are going to be
obsolete also. As I understand it, they will no longer be able to be
programmed for multiple OTA channels, but limited to the single
channel that the converter box is set to. Correct??

I'm not the least bit concerned. I never change the channel on my VCR. My
cable box is capable of programming the sequence of channels I want to
record and the timing for them. I only need to coordinate the same times
on the VCR.

My cable box is already digital. My VCR is a combo VCR/DVD
player/recorder.

--
Wayne Boatwright

*******************************************
Date: Saturday, 01(I)/12(XII)/08(MMVIII)
*******************************************
Mmmmmm, something smells good! It's
me.' * Cat
*******************************************

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 03:15:48 GMT, aemeijers wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 13:58:51 -0600, wrote:

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:34:09 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:47:38 -0800 (PST), Red wrote:

On Jan 12, 10:01 am, Kevin Ricks wrote:
Isn't that limited to people who have NO TV source other than antenna?
Here is a quote from the official web site:https://www.dtv2009.gov/

.... but supplies are limited. There are 22.25 million coupons available
to all U.S. households. Once those coupons have been used, there are an
additional 11.25 million coupons available only to households that
solely receive their TV broadcasts over-the-air using an antenna.
Households with TVs connected to cable, satellite or other pay TV
service are not eligible for this second batch of coupons. Consumers can
apply for coupons until March 31, 2009, or until the funds are exhausted.
.....

Apparently no one is concerned that the analog VCR's are going to be
obsolete also. As I understand it, they will no longer be able to be
programmed for multiple OTA channels, but limited to the single
channel that the converter box is set to. Correct??
Yes, this is correct. You will have to set the convertor to the
channel you want to record, and can only record that channel, until
you reset the programming or change the convertor channel.

VCR's? Are you worried about your 8-track player and phonograph, too? Time
marches on. At some point you have to make at least a minimal effort to keep up,
or expect to be left behind.
No one really cares about your attitude. If you want to "keep up"
feel free to do so, some of us like things the way they were, and for
clearity, I still do enjoy my vinyl records. If anyone ends up being
left behind, it's people with your attitude, because one of these days
you'll be old and will realize that your whole life was wasted trying
to keep up with the Joneses.

BOYCOTT DTV.gov NOW !!!!!

I have some bad news for you. When your current ice man dies, you are gonna have
to get one of those new-fangled refrigerator thingys.

You struggle far more resisting change than I do welcoming it. And I'm not
anywhere near "young".


I don't resist change, I'm just not in any hurry to go out looking for
it. My obsolete technology still works fine. When it craps out, I'll
replace it with whatever the current technology is. But by all means,
you go ahead and pay top dollar for the latest and greatest. Folks like
you are what brings the price of new stuff down, for folks like me. I
can wait a couple of years to save probably a third on the price.

(Not like I need any more excuses to waste any more time watching the
idiot box than I already do, after all.)

aem sends...

That's exactly what I do in most cases. When my tv dies, I might get
a digital one if they are comparable in price by then. It took me a
long time to get used to CDs for music, but eventually I got one. I
still like my vinyl too, and in same ways, it has a warmer sound. I
too am in no hurry to change things that work. Thats what irritates
me about the DTV thing, it's being forced on us. If they created
Digital and still kept analog, I'd have no problem with it.

Not only do those who must have the latest stuff immediately bring
down the prices, but they keep the economy alive. The advertisers
look for suckers like them, and the credit card companies make a
killing on them.

There's one thing where I resist change, and I will have to admit to
it. I refuse to use Windows XP or Vista. I absolutely cant stand
them. I use 98 or 2K, and thats it. I do get somewhat of a laugh
about all the "got to have it now" folks who bought Vista as soon as
it was released. All I hear are complaints about it now.

Anyhow, have a good day....

Oh yeah, I should mention that this thread added a few names to my
killfile, but I wont mention which names, that part is obvious.
Usenet sure has it's share of assholes these days.

On Sat 12 Jan 2008 09:30:49p, told us...

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 03:15:48 GMT, aemeijers wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 13:58:51 -0600, wrote:

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:34:09 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:47:38 -0800 (PST), Red
wrote:

On Jan 12, 10:01 am, Kevin Ricks wrote:
Isn't that limited to people who have NO TV source other than
antenna?
Here is a quote from the official web
site:https://www.dtv2009.gov/

.... but supplies are limited. There are 22.25 million coupons
available to all U.S. households. Once those coupons have been
used, there are an additional 11.25 million coupons available only
to households that solely receive their TV broadcasts over-the-air
using an antenna. Households with TVs connected to cable,
satellite or other pay TV service are not eligible for this second
batch of coupons. Consumers can apply for coupons until March 31,
2009, or until the funds are exhausted. .....

Apparently no one is concerned that the analog VCR's are going to
be obsolete also. As I understand it, they will no longer be able
to be programmed for multiple OTA channels, but limited to the
single channel that the converter box is set to. Correct??
Yes, this is correct. You will have to set the convertor to the
channel you want to record, and can only record that channel, until
you reset the programming or change the convertor channel.

VCR's? Are you worried about your 8-track player and phonograph,
too? Time marches on. At some point you have to make at least a
minimal effort to keep up, or expect to be left behind.
No one really cares about your attitude. If you want to "keep up"
feel free to do so, some of us like things the way they were, and for
clearity, I still do enjoy my vinyl records. If anyone ends up being
left behind, it's people with your attitude, because one of these
days you'll be old and will realize that your whole life was wasted
trying to keep up with the Joneses.

BOYCOTT DTV.gov NOW !!!!!

I have some bad news for you. When your current ice man dies, you are
gonna have to get one of those new-fangled refrigerator thingys.

You struggle far more resisting change than I do welcoming it. And
I'm not anywhere near "young".


I don't resist change, I'm just not in any hurry to go out looking for
it. My obsolete technology still works fine. When it craps out, I'll
replace it with whatever the current technology is. But by all means,
you go ahead and pay top dollar for the latest and greatest. Folks like
you are what brings the price of new stuff down, for folks like me. I
can wait a couple of years to save probably a third on the price.

(Not like I need any more excuses to waste any more time watching the
idiot box than I already do, after all.)

aem sends...

That's exactly what I do in most cases. When my tv dies, I might get
a digital one if they are comparable in price by then. It took me a
long time to get used to CDs for music, but eventually I got one. I
still like my vinyl too, and in same ways, it has a warmer sound. I
too am in no hurry to change things that work. Thats what irritates
me about the DTV thing, it's being forced on us. If they created
Digital and still kept analog, I'd have no problem with it.

I have neither the desire nor the money to "jump" into digital, and am
satisfied with our two 32" tube sets adn a small 15" set. Analog,
obviously. I haven't read much of this thread, and what I'm going to say
may have already been addressed, but it as my understanding that cable
companies such as Cox will still provide converted to analog signals
through their converter boxes. I can certainly live with that. Not sure
what I'll do if there are no analog signals.

Not only do those who must have the latest stuff immediately bring
down the prices, but they keep the economy alive. The advertisers
look for suckers like them, and the credit card companies make a
killing on them.

There's one thing where I resist change, and I will have to admit to
it. I refuse to use Windows XP or Vista. I absolutely cant stand
them. I use 98 or 2K, and thats it. I do get somewhat of a laugh
about all the "got to have it now" folks who bought Vista as soon as
it was released. All I hear are complaints about it now.

I hated 98, but used 2K for a good number of years. I moved on to XP when
my office did because I work at home several days a week and the
compatibility of OS and applications was better through my VPN connection.
I've come to really like XP Pro because I've configured it well and have a
good firewall. I have no plans to move on to Vista unless at some point
there is no alternative.

From a work perspective, I will have to stay with Windows "something", as
they're not likely to go with any other OS or compatible applications.

Anyhow, have a good day....

Oh yeah, I should mention that this thread added a few names to my
killfile, but I wont mention which names, that part is obvious.
Usenet sure has it's share of assholes these days.


--
Wayne Boatwright

*******************************************
Date: Saturday, 01(I)/12(XII)/08(MMVIII)
*******************************************
Pandemonium doesn't reign here... It pours!
*******************************************

On Jan 12, 12:36*pm, Red wrote:
*I didn't say a strike, I said a surge.
*I've lost 3 tv's at a different location fromlightningsurges
(nearby but not direct strike) coming into the tuner section via
CATV.

First a lightning strike is a surge.

Second, sacrificial protection does not exist - is a myth. A surge
is electricity. That means electricity flows through everything in
that path from cloud to earth. Only after does something or multiple
things fail. You have assumed surges do damage like waves crashing on
a beach. Electricity does not work that way.

Third, protection is defined in another post on 11 January 2008 in
the newsgroup newsguy.general entitled "Lightning Strikes" at:
http://tinyurl.com/22race
Everything in that post defines what provides TV protection.

Fourth, you have assumed lightning surge entered on cable. Then what
is the outgoing path to earth? Any properly installed cable first
connects to earth ground before rising up to enter the building.
Connected to earth means a surge will not seek earth ground,
destructively, via the TV. What is the incoming surge path? What
good is a 'sacrificial' amp when cable should already dump the
incoming surge to earth before entering the building?

Fifth, surges typically enter from wires located highest on poles -
AC electric. Incoming on AC electric, into TV, and out to earth
ground via tuner and cable. Protection means the incoming wire should
be earthed before entering the building. That is what one properly
earthed 'whole house' protector does. Earthed to the same electrode
that cable TV wire connects.

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:47:38 -0800 (PST), Red
wrote:

On Jan 12, 10:01*am, Kevin Ricks wrote:

Isn't that limited to people who have NO TV source other than antenna?

Here is a quote from the official web site:https://www.dtv2009.gov/

.... but supplies are limited. There are 22.25 million coupons available
to all U.S. households. Once those coupons have been used, there are an
additional 11.25 million coupons available only to households that
solely receive their TV broadcasts over-the-air using an antenna.
Households with TVs connected to cable, satellite or other pay TV
service are not eligible for this second batch of coupons. Consumers can
apply for coupons until March 31, 2009, or until the funds are exhausted.
.....


Apparently no one is concerned that the analog VCR's are going to be
obsolete also.

There's DVD recorders, although they're newer can you can get one with
ATSC/QAM tuners.

As I understand it, they will no longer be able to be
programmed for multiple OTA channels, but limited to the single
channel that the converter box is set to. Correct??

Yes and no. The converter box could contain a timer. That's what
happened with my first cable box. You program the VCR (no channel
setting here) AND program the converter with the channel to receive.

There's also the possibility of having one device than can control the
other.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"God was invented by man for a reason, that
reason is no longer applicable."

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:58:58 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 07:38:05 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 03:28:52 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Jan 11, 10:11*pm, wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 00:59:55 GMT, "Twayne"

wrote:
wrote:
There are many digital circuits on most electronic equipment.

High Definition is one of those digital circuits.

Actually, High Def has nothing to do with whether the cktry is digital
or not. A set can have ALL digital components in it but still only be
capable of managing analog TV signals. *It's the TV signal that becomes
digital for HDTV, so the set requires a tuner which is capable of
receiving and handling digital signals. *And it will of course, use
digital components; it'd be a bear to design an analog digital TV signal
receiverG.

So a tuner that can handle a HD broadcast signal isn't digital?
That's news to me.


What he's saying is that TV's for decades have had some digital
components, like the digital comb filter in the OP's 2004 27" set,
which almost certainly does not have an ATSC tuner, which is what the
real issue is. Even the ATSC tuners have some analog components as
well.

The OP is confused in thinking that for the ATSC converter boxs to
work, his TV needs to be "digital". It does not. The converters are
designed to take ATSC and offer various outputs, including RF NTSC
which you can hook up to any old NTSC TV, just like hooking up a VCR.
Bottom line, his TV almost certainly doesn't have a built-in ATSC
tuner and the converter boxes will work with it to receive std def
ATSC that is replacing NTSC OTA, but the TV will not be capable of HD
resolutions unless the specs say it's HDTV ready.

Almost certainly requiring 2 remote controls (TV & converter), making
watching TV more complicated. This problem could be avoided if TVs
could have their power interrupted (switched outlet on converter)
without forgetting any settings. Few TVs are like that.

Many remotes supplied with converter boxes can be programed to operate the TV as
well. I have directv, and the remote turns the converter and the TV on and off
with one press of a button. It also controls TV volume and all on screen
programming fuctions for picture and audio settings, etc. The same remote also
controls my DVD player and my stereo system.


Universal remote controls help some, but it ISN'T as easy as a single
TV with a remote control designed for it.

You might not notice because you're used to it. That won't be true for
some people. I had an older relative who had trouble with anything
other than a SINGLE 6-button (ch up/ch dn/vol up/vol dn/mute/power)
remote.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"God was invented by man for a reason, that
reason is no longer applicable."

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:47:38 -0800 (PST), Red
wrote:

On Jan 12, 10:01*am, Kevin Ricks wrote:

Isn't that limited to people who have NO TV source other than antenna?

Here is a quote from the official web site:https://www.dtv2009.gov/

.... but supplies are limited. There are 22.25 million coupons available
to all U.S. households. Once those coupons have been used, there are an
additional 11.25 million coupons available only to households that
solely receive their TV broadcasts over-the-air using an antenna.
Households with TVs connected to cable, satellite or other pay TV
service are not eligible for this second batch of coupons. Consumers can
apply for coupons until March 31, 2009, or until the funds are exhausted.
.....


Apparently no one is concerned that the analog VCR's are going to be
obsolete also. As I understand it, they will no longer be able to be
programmed for multiple OTA channels, but limited to the single
channel that the converter box is set to. Correct??

I use a VCR mostly for playing tapes and for making copies for people
without DVD. Neither use has anything to do with as tuner.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"God was invented by man for a reason, that
reason is no longer applicable."

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 13:58:51 -0600, wrote:

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:34:09 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:47:38 -0800 (PST), Red wrote:

On Jan 12, 10:01*am, Kevin Ricks wrote:

Isn't that limited to people who have NO TV source other than antenna?

Here is a quote from the official web site:https://www.dtv2009.gov/

.... but supplies are limited. There are 22.25 million coupons available
to all U.S. households. Once those coupons have been used, there are an
additional 11.25 million coupons available only to households that
solely receive their TV broadcasts over-the-air using an antenna.
Households with TVs connected to cable, satellite or other pay TV
service are not eligible for this second batch of coupons. Consumers can
apply for coupons until March 31, 2009, or until the funds are exhausted.
.....


Apparently no one is concerned that the analog VCR's are going to be
obsolete also. As I understand it, they will no longer be able to be
programmed for multiple OTA channels, but limited to the single
channel that the converter box is set to. Correct??

Yes, this is correct. You will have to set the convertor to the
channel you want to record, and can only record that channel, until
you reset the programming or change the convertor channel.

VCR's? Are you worried about your 8-track player and phonograph, too? Time
marches on. At some point you have to make at least a minimal effort to keep up,
or expect to be left behind.

No one really cares about your attitude. If you want to "keep up"
feel free to do so, some of us like things the way they were, and for
clearity, I still do enjoy my vinyl records.

No law keeps you from playing existing recordings on your own
equipment. At least not the older ones without DRM.

If anyone ends up being
left behind, it's people with your attitude, because one of these days
you'll be old and will realize that your whole life was wasted trying
to keep up with the Joneses.

BOYCOTT DTV.gov NOW !!!!!
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"God was invented by man for a reason, that
reason is no longer applicable."

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 13:15:30 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

There's DVD recorders, although they're newer can you can get one with
ATSC/QAM tuners.

Yes, I saw a DVD/VCR combination recorder with a Digital Tuner in one
store. The price was enough to make me fall to the floor and I came
close to having to call 911 for oxygen treatments.

I initially had gone there to inquire if they sold the convertor
boxes. They did not have them, but the salesman was quick to show me
this overpriced thing.

I still wonder why anyone would want to record a DVD rather than a
tape. Tapes can be erased and used over and over. As far as I know,
these DVD recorders are for only one time use (unlike the computer
ones). Maybe that will change in the future, but for now, just
recording a tv show to watch later could get costly for one time use
per disk.

wrote:

I still wonder why anyone would want to record a DVD rather than a
tape. Tapes can be erased and used over and over. As far as I know,
these DVD recorders are for only one time use (unlike the computer
ones).

Most dvd recorders use the RW format in addition to whatever single record
fromat they use. So until a RW dvd is finalized it can be recorded over and
over.

BTW there are very good dvd recorders out there for under $300.00. What was
the price of the one you saw?
--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

On Jan 13, 11:56*am, w_tom wrote:
On Jan 12, 12:36*pm, Red wrote:

*I didn't say a strike, I said a surge.
*I've lost 3 tv's at a different location fromlightningsurges
(nearby but not direct strike) coming into the tuner section via
CATV.

* First a lightning strike is a surge.

* Second, sacrificial protection does not exist - is a myth. *A surge
is electricity. *That means electricity flows through everything in
that path from cloud to earth. *Only after does something or multiple
things fail. *You have assumed surges do damage like waves crashing on
a beach. Electricity does not work that way.

* Third, protection is defined in another post on 11 January 2008 in
the newsgroup *newsguy.general *entitled "Lightning Strikes" at:
*http://tinyurl.com/22race
Everything in that post defines what provides TV protection.

* Fourth, you have assumed lightning surge entered on cable. Then what
is the outgoing path to earth? *Any properly installed cable first
connects to earth ground before rising up to enter the building.
Connected to earth means a surge will not seek earth ground,
destructively, via the TV. *What is the incoming surge path? *What
good is a 'sacrificial' amp when cable should already dump the
incoming surge to earth before entering the building?

* Fifth, surges typically enter from wires located highest on poles -
AC electric. *Incoming on AC electric, into TV, and out to earth
ground via tuner and cable. *Protection means the incoming wire should
be earthed before entering the building. *That is what one properly
earthed 'whole house' protector does. *Earthed to the same electrode
that cable TV wire connects.

I'm not going to get into this argument again - it was fought long &
hard many times before. All I'm saying is that theory is one thing
and experience is another. As to cable input, the shield is grounded
but the center conductor is not. Any induced voltage on the center
conductor goes into the tv's tuner section before it finds a path to
ground. And I've had 3 tv's to prove it despite what theory says.
Also, it does not take a strike to create a surge. Many, many times
I've had static electricity jumping 1" to 2" arcs between appliances
in my kitchen when there was a storm in the area but no strikes. I've
had items vibrate on my glass coffee table many seconds before a
strike a half mile away. And yes, my house is properly grounded.
And yes, I have had a lot of experience installing commercial
lightning protection sysyems. Enough experience to say that lightning
will do what it damn well pleases despite what precautions we take.
So the more we do, even it is not within norm, increases our chances
of minimal damage. And that is what I said I did.

Red

Red wrote:
On Jan 13, 11:56 am, w_tom wrote:

On Jan 12, 12:36 pm, Red wrote:


I didn't say a strike, I said a surge.
I've lost 3 tv's at a different location fromlightningsurges
(nearby but not direct strike) coming into the tuner section via
CATV.

First a lightning strike is a surge.

Second, sacrificial protection does not exist - is a myth. A surge
is electricity. That means electricity flows through everything in
that path from cloud to earth. Only after does something or multiple
things fail. You have assumed surges do damage like waves crashing on
a beach. Electricity does not work that way.

Third, protection is defined in another post on 11 January 2008 in
the newsgroup newsguy.general entitled "Lightning Strikes" at:
http://tinyurl.com/22race
Everything in that post defines what provides TV protection.

Fourth, you have assumed lightning surge entered on cable. Then what
is the outgoing path to earth? Any properly installed cable first
connects to earth ground before rising up to enter the building.
Connected to earth means a surge will not seek earth ground,
destructively, via the TV. What is the incoming surge path? What
good is a 'sacrificial' amp when cable should already dump the
incoming surge to earth before entering the building?

Fifth, surges typically enter from wires located highest on poles -
AC electric. Incoming on AC electric, into TV, and out to earth
ground via tuner and cable. Protection means the incoming wire should
be earthed before entering the building. That is what one properly
earthed 'whole house' protector does. Earthed to the same electrode
that cable TV wire connects.


I'm not going to get into this argument again - it was fought long &
hard many times before. All I'm saying is that theory is one thing
and experience is another. As to cable input, the shield is grounded
but the center conductor is not. Any induced voltage on the center
conductor goes into the tv's tuner section before it finds a path to
ground. And I've had 3 tv's to prove it despite what theory says.
Also, it does not take a strike to create a surge. Many, many times
I've had static electricity jumping 1" to 2" arcs between appliances
in my kitchen when there was a storm in the area but no strikes. I've
had items vibrate on my glass coffee table many seconds before a
strike a half mile away. And yes, my house is properly grounded.
And yes, I have had a lot of experience installing commercial
lightning protection sysyems. Enough experience to say that lightning
will do what it damn well pleases despite what precautions we take.
So the more we do, even it is not within norm, increases our chances
of minimal damage. And that is what I said I did.

Red
Hi,
Yes, speaking of experience, when I was an EIC at LARGE data center in
the basement of a building, we suffered a direct hit. No visible damage
to any equipment per se, but alas, our data stored in the mass storage
devices were all garbled(trashed) needing 3 days non-stop restore
operation from a back up we kept off site. I think when hit direct,
there is no real 100% protection.

On Jan 13, 5:30 pm, Red wrote:
I'm not going to get into this argument again - it was fought long &
hard many times before. All I'm saying is that theory is one thing
and experience is another. As to cable input, the shield is grounded
but the center conductor is not. Any induced voltage on the center
conductor goes into the tv's tuner section before it finds a path to
ground.

First, your conclusion contradicts what industry professional say -
including an inline amp as sacrificial protection.

Second, your amp solution (as others noted) does nothing if a surge
is on either conductor.

Third, one with experience learned by doing this stuff decades ago -
me. Your 'theory only' of using an amp as a protector comes from no
practical experience, from denying how electricity works, and from
ignoring science as well published even in industry application notes.
(Electrical knowledge also would not have asked if the inline amp was
digital.)

If you believed an earthed coax shield was insufficient, then
experience would have obtained well proven products from an industry
benchmark - Polyphaser. Your experience was unaware of highly
regarded products from Polyphaser - an industry benchmark? I thought
you said you knew this stuff?

Fourth, is the building properly grounded? Proper earthing only for
human safety, or earthing enhanced for appliance protection? Does
every wire in every cable make a 'less than 10 foot' connection to the
same (single point) earthing electrode? If not, then earthing is not
sufficient.

Fifth, a major difference exists between installing equipment verses
learning why damage occurs. If earthing was sufficient, then you were
not suffering electronics damage and not suffering 1" sparks inside
the kitchen. 1" or 2" sparks inside a kitchen means one corrects an
earthing defect. Those 1" sparks exist when you ignore an obvious
earthing defect.

Your reply implies that you will ignore what professional say.
Fine. This post demonstrates for others why you suffered repeat
damage; what happens when one refuses to learn from and correct a
defect. Posted only for the benefit of others. Three TVs and you
still ignored the problem? 1" sparks in the kitchen and you call that
acceptable?

Routine is to have direct lightning strikes without damage.
Otherwise telco service would be lost periodically for five days while
telco replaces their computer. Telcos suffer typically 100 surges
during every thunderstorm - and no damage. That means no 1" sparks
inside the building. If damage does occur, a human locates and
corrects the earthing defect - as Orange County FL did:
http://www.psihq.com/AllCopper.htm

Their facilities also were properly grounded. How did Orange
County eliminate unacceptable damage? "Properly grounded" earthing
system was upgraded to eliminate surge damage. 1" sparks inside a
building due to lightning means a defective earthing system, which
also explains three damaged TVs.

Lightning is not facetious - except where science is ignored.
Reasons for damage are so well understood that damage is considered a
human failure. When lightning does something unexpected, then a human
learns from his mistake. Another human failure is to suffer damage
three times and still not fix the defective earthing.

wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 15:14:02 -0600, wrote:


On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 13:15:30 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:


There's DVD recorders, although they're newer can you can get one with
ATSC/QAM tuners.

Yes, I saw a DVD/VCR combination recorder with a Digital Tuner in one
store. The price was enough to make me fall to the floor and I came
close to having to call 911 for oxygen treatments.

I initially had gone there to inquire if they sold the convertor
boxes. They did not have them, but the salesman was quick to show me
this overpriced thing.

I still wonder why anyone would want to record a DVD rather than a
tape. Tapes can be erased and used over and over. As far as I know,
these DVD recorders are for only one time use (unlike the computer
ones). Maybe that will change in the future, but for now, just
recording a tv show to watch later could get costly for one time use
per disk.


The one I bought from Sams for $120 will record DVD RWs
Hmmm,
Also there is DVD-RAM.

On Sun 13 Jan 2008 02:14:02p, told us...

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 13:15:30 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

There's DVD recorders, although they're newer can you can get one with
ATSC/QAM tuners.

Yes, I saw a DVD/VCR combination recorder with a Digital Tuner in one
store. The price was enough to make me fall to the floor and I came
close to having to call 911 for oxygen treatments.

I initially had gone there to inquire if they sold the convertor
boxes. They did not have them, but the salesman was quick to show me
this overpriced thing.

I still wonder why anyone would want to record a DVD rather than a
tape. Tapes can be erased and used over and over. As far as I know,
these DVD recorders are for only one time use (unlike the computer
ones). Maybe that will change in the future, but for now, just
recording a tv show to watch later could get costly for one time use
per disk.


On the contrary, there are re-writable DVD disks, just as there are re-
writable CDs. They are a bit more expensive than once-only disks, but you
can record ~1000 times on them before they begin to really degrade.

I have a JVC combo VHS tape and DVD player/recorder. I can't remember the
last time I recorded a tape. I always record on DVDs, then reform/erase
them for the next time. The recording quality is so much better.

--
Wayne Boatwright

*******************************************
Date: Sunday, 01(I)/13(XIII)/08(MMVIII)
*******************************************
3 kinds of people: those who can count
& those who can't.
*******************************************

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 15:14:02 -0600, wrote:

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 13:15:30 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

There's DVD recorders, although they're newer can you can get one with
ATSC/QAM tuners.

Yes, I saw a DVD/VCR combination recorder with a Digital Tuner in one
store. The price was enough to make me fall to the floor and I came
close to having to call 911 for oxygen treatments.


The one (DVR recorder with ATSC/QAM tuner) cost more than a cheap VCR,
but the price wasn't that high for a DVD recorder. Mine was $169 a few
months ago.

I initially had gone there to inquire if they sold the convertor
boxes. They did not have them, but the salesman was quick to show me
this overpriced thing.

I still wonder why anyone would want to record a DVD rather than a
tape.

Some reasons:

1. Recording is digital. It can then be copied to computer without the
problems associated with handling analog signal and A/D conversion
within the computer.

2. DVDs take less storage space than VHS cassettes. I just checked and
got FIVE DVDs (in slim cases) in somewhat less space than OVE VHS
cassette. As for capacity, I can get around 27 hours on those DVDs
(single sided DVD, with TV quality compression) compared to 10 hours
on some tapes.

3. DVDs are not susceptible to magnetic fields. This makes it easier
to find a suitable storage location for them.

4. a DVD is one solid piece rather than a long stringy thing that can
get stuck in the mechanism, destroying the media and (sometimes)
leading to the need for repair of the recorder.

5. A DVD is random access. Pressing 'RECORD' will never overwrite
existing recordings.

6. Getting recordings into the computer is easy. You just copy a few
..VOB files (which are actually MPEG).

7. Some recorders even allow simultaneous independent record and
playback (like a DVR, for buffering live TV).

8. Picture is higher quality and doesn't degrade nearly as quickly as
with tape.

Tapes can be erased and used over and over. As far as I know,
these DVD recorders are for only one time use (unlike the computer
ones).

Forget about rewritable DVDs?

Maybe that will change in the future, but for now, just
recording a tv show to watch later could get costly for one time use
per disk.

That's the sort of thing you want a DVD-RW or DVD+RW for. Your DVD
recorder should have no problem using such a disk.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"God was invented by man for a reason, that
reason is no longer applicable."

On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 05:29:46 GMT, Tony Hwang wrote:

wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 15:14:02 -0600, wrote:


On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 13:15:30 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:


There's DVD recorders, although they're newer can you can get one with
ATSC/QAM tuners.

Yes, I saw a DVD/VCR combination recorder with a Digital Tuner in one
store. The price was enough to make me fall to the floor and I came
close to having to call 911 for oxygen treatments.

I initially had gone there to inquire if they sold the convertor
boxes. They did not have them, but the salesman was quick to show me
this overpriced thing.

I still wonder why anyone would want to record a DVD rather than a
tape. Tapes can be erased and used over and over. As far as I know,
these DVD recorders are for only one time use (unlike the computer
ones). Maybe that will change in the future, but for now, just
recording a tv show to watch later could get costly for one time use
per disk.


The one I bought from Sams for $120 will record DVD RWs
Hmmm,
Also there is DVD-RAM.

DVD-RAM is a different format, that is incompatible with most players.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"God was invented by man for a reason, that
reason is no longer applicable."

In article ,
Mark Lloyd wrote:

Tapes can be erased and used over and over. As far as I know,
these DVD recorders are for only one time use (unlike the computer
ones).

Forget about rewritable DVDs?
Even w/o rewritable DVDs, VHS tapes at Circuit City's website ran
around 4.00 each at worst while DVDs (even without the various rebates,
etc., being offered) listed less than a buck each (around $40 for stack
of 50 and most of those were actually closer to $10 for the stack).

Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 05:29:46 GMT, Tony Hwang wrote:


wrote:

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 15:14:02 -0600, wrote:



On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 13:15:30 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:



There's DVD recorders, although they're newer can you can get one with
ATSC/QAM tuners.

Yes, I saw a DVD/VCR combination recorder with a Digital Tuner in one
store. The price was enough to make me fall to the floor and I came
close to having to call 911 for oxygen treatments.

I initially had gone there to inquire if they sold the convertor
boxes. They did not have them, but the salesman was quick to show me
this overpriced thing.

I still wonder why anyone would want to record a DVD rather than a
tape. Tapes can be erased and used over and over. As far as I know,
these DVD recorders are for only one time use (unlike the computer
ones). Maybe that will change in the future, but for now, just
recording a tv show to watch later could get costly for one time use
per disk.


The one I bought from Sams for $120 will record DVD RWs

Hmmm,
Also there is DVD-RAM.


DVD-RAM is a different format, that is incompatible with most players.
Hi,
My recorder records/plays DVD+/-R, RW, RAM.

Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
Mark Lloyd wrote:


Tapes can be erased and used over and over. As far as I know,
these DVD recorders are for only one time use (unlike the computer
ones).

Forget about rewritable DVDs?

Even w/o rewritable DVDs, VHS tapes at Circuit City's website ran
around 4.00 each at worst while DVDs (even without the various rebates,
etc., being offered) listed less than a buck each (around $40 for stack
of 50 and most of those were actually closer to $10 for the stack).



Hi,
If you are trying to argue the advantage of tape, you lose!

wrote:

On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 09:25:25 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:


I still wonder why anyone would want to record a DVD rather than a
tape.

Some reasons:


Downside of DVD, if you drop a recordable and it lands on the edge,
throw it away. I just had that happen and the disk delaminated.
Memorex DVD-R.
I lost the data
Hmmm,
Memorex? El Cheapo DVD brand. How many toaster have you made with it.

w_tom wrote:
On Jan 12, 12:36 pm, Red wrote:
I didn't say a strike, I said a surge.
I've lost 3 tv's at a different location fromlightningsurges
(nearby but not direct strike) coming into the tuner section via
CATV.

Third, protection is defined in another post on 11 January 2008 in
the newsgroup newsguy.general entitled "Lightning Strikes" at:
http://tinyurl.com/22race
Everything in that post defines what provides TV protection.

Direct strikes to a house are very uncommon and lightning rods are
seldom cost-effective. The post has minimal information relevant to
Red's cable TV.

Excellent information on surges and surge protection is in an IEEE guide at:
http://omegaps.com/Lightning%20Guide...ion_May051.pdf
And one from the NIST at:
http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/p.../surgesfnl.pdf

The IEEE guide is aimed at those with some technical background. The
NIST guide is aimed at the unwashed masses.


Fourth, you have assumed lightning surge entered on cable. Then what
is the outgoing path to earth? Any properly installed cable first
connects to earth ground before rising up to enter the building.
Connected to earth means a surge will not seek earth ground,
destructively, via the TV. What is the incoming surge path? What
good is a 'sacrificial' amp when cable should already dump the
incoming surge to earth before entering the building?

As Red points out, a cable entry ground block only grounds the shield,
leaving the center conductor unprotected. The IEEE guide notes that the
voltage between cable center conductor and sheath is then limited by the
breakdown of F-connectors which is typically 2-4,000V. The guide notes
that connected equipment can be damaged at those voltages

A plug-in suppressor, with the cable going through the suppressor, will
clamp the voltage.

Or a ground block that clamps the voltage could be used. These must be
grounded to the common ground point at entry (as below) to be effective.


Fifth, surges typically enter from wires located highest on poles -
AC electric. Incoming on AC electric, into TV, and out to earth
ground via tuner and cable. Protection means the incoming wire should
be earthed before entering the building. That is what one properly
earthed 'whole house' protector does. Earthed to the same electrode
that cable TV wire connects.

Not just to the same electrode. The IEEE guide has an example of too
long a ‘ground’ wire from a cable entry ground block to the earthing
wire at the power service starting pdf page 40. The distance to the
common bonding point for power, cable, phone is critical, not the
distance to the grounding electrode. The author of the NIST guide, has
written “the impedance of the grounding system to ‘true earth’ is far
less important than the integrity of the bonding of the various parts
of the grounding system.” If the entry protector for phone or cable is
distant from the power service a short connection is not possible. In
that case, the IEEE guide says "the only effective way of protecting the
equipment is to use” a plug-in suppressors with power plus cable and/or
phone going through the suppressor.

According to NIST guide, US insurance information indicates equipment
most frequently damaged by lightning is
computers with a modem connection
TVs, VCRs and similar equipment (presumably with cable TV
connections).
All can be damaged by high voltages between power and signal wires.
The 2 examples of surge protection in the IEEE guide are for TV/related
equipment with cable connection, and a computer with phone connection.

A cable amp should eliminate the hazard from high voltage on the center
conductor, but would not necessarily eliminate problems with power and
cable ground references being at high voltage with respect to each other.

A power service surge suppressor is a real good idea, but will provide
no protection from the 2 problems above.

--
bud--

On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:29:36 GMT, Tony Hwang wrote:

Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 05:29:46 GMT, Tony Hwang wrote:


wrote:

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 15:14:02 -0600, wrote:



On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 13:15:30 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:



There's DVD recorders, although they're newer can you can get one with
ATSC/QAM tuners.

Yes, I saw a DVD/VCR combination recorder with a Digital Tuner in one
store. The price was enough to make me fall to the floor and I came
close to having to call 911 for oxygen treatments.

I initially had gone there to inquire if they sold the convertor
boxes. They did not have them, but the salesman was quick to show me
this overpriced thing.

I still wonder why anyone would want to record a DVD rather than a
tape. Tapes can be erased and used over and over. As far as I know,
these DVD recorders are for only one time use (unlike the computer
ones). Maybe that will change in the future, but for now, just
recording a tv show to watch later could get costly for one time use
per disk.


The one I bought from Sams for $120 will record DVD RWs

Hmmm,
Also there is DVD-RAM.


DVD-RAM is a different format, that is incompatible with most players.
Hi,
My recorder records/plays DVD+/-R, RW, RAM.

And I said MOST. Obviously, you have one of the exceptions. Your
DVD-RAM should work fine in your recorder, but will have limited
playability elsewhere. DVD-R(W) and DVD+R(W) discs can be played in
almost all players.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"God was invented by man for a reason, that
reason is no longer applicable."

On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 10:39:41 -0500, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

In article ,
Mark Lloyd wrote:

Tapes can be erased and used over and over. As far as I know,
these DVD recorders are for only one time use (unlike the computer
ones).

Forget about rewritable DVDs?
Even w/o rewritable DVDs, VHS tapes at Circuit City's website ran
around 4.00 each at worst

I remember sub-$1 prices on blank tapes while they were popular.
Prices are going up now, so the advantage of DVD here is improving.

while DVDs (even without the various rebates,
etc., being offered) listed less than a buck each (around $40 for stack
of 50 and most of those were actually closer to $10 for the stack).



--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"God was invented by man for a reason, that
reason is no longer applicable."

On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:31:55 GMT, Tony Hwang wrote:

wrote:

On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 09:25:25 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:


I still wonder why anyone would want to record a DVD rather than a
tape.

Some reasons:


Downside of DVD, if you drop a recordable and it lands on the edge,
throw it away. I just had that happen and the disk delaminated.
Memorex DVD-R.
I lost the data
Hmmm,
Memorex? El Cheapo DVD brand. How many toaster

coaster?

have you made with it.

Sam E wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:31:55 GMT, Tony Hwang wrote:


wrote:


On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 09:25:25 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:



I still wonder why anyone would want to record a DVD rather than a
tape.

Some reasons:


Downside of DVD, if you drop a recordable and it lands on the edge,
throw it away. I just had that happen and the disk delaminated.
Memorex DVD-R.
I lost the data

Hmmm,
Memorex? El Cheapo DVD brand. How many toaster


coaster?


have you made with it.
Hi,
Sorry, yes, coaster. Damn finger problem.

On Jan 14, 9:25*am, Mark Lloyd wrote:

Forget about rewritable DVDs?

Maybe that will change in the future, but for now, just
recording a tv show to watch later could get costly for one time use
per disk.

That's the sort of thing you want a DVD-RW or DVD+RW for. Your DVD
recorder should have no problem using such a disk.
--

How many re-writes can you get per disk and still retain quality?? A
salesperson told me less than 10. True?

KC