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#1
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It's not flush with the ceiling, has about 1/8th inch all around.
It worked good for 3 months, now it's wobbling like mad. I don't know much about how to fix or replace the box in the ceiling the fan is attached to. How much wobble is normal? How can I fix the fan, box, or both? thanks |
#2
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"Crackles McFarly" wrote in message
... It's not flush with the ceiling, has about 1/8th inch all around. It worked good for 3 months, now it's wobbling like mad. I don't know much about how to fix or replace the box in the ceiling the fan is attached to. How much wobble is normal? How can I fix the fan, box, or both? thanks I wouldn't be using that fan until the installation mistakes have been fixed. Ask friends & co-workers if they know an electrician they've been happy with in the past. Electrician because if the installation is mechanically incorrect, there's a good chance the wires may be funny too. |
#3
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#4
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According to :
On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 09:57:48 -0500, Crackles McFarly wrote: It's not flush with the ceiling, has about 1/8th inch all around. It worked good for 3 months, now it's wobbling like mad. I don't know much about how to fix or replace the box in the ceiling the fan is attached to. How much wobble is normal? How can I fix the fan, box, or both? NO wobble is normal. Sounds like a poorly done installation that is falling apart. A bit of wobble is normal - uneven distribution of dust alone can do it. However, it's a new installation, and the 1/8" gap is suggestive that it (possibly the box) is working itself loose. Could be common nails in the back of the box slowly getting vibrated out. I'd keep it shut off until you can diagnose/repair the problem. If the box is working loose, the whole unit might fall down. Is the bezel moving, or just the fan? Check that the mounting screws in the bezel are tight. If they are, it's probably the box coming loose. Depending on how it's mounted, a couple of #10 or #12 screws driven through the back of the box may be sufficient. Code has gotten stricter over ceiling fan mounting. I prefer to use a piece of 2x4 or 2x6 backing screwed between the joists, mounting the box with several heavy wood screws into the backing. A "U channel" of wood with the sides of the box screwed in to the legs is even better. Very heavy fixtures may need additional brackets straddling the tops of the joists with bolts to hold onto the lower bracket. Some of the prefab metal brackets are fine too, as long as they're solidly attached. -- Chris Lewis, Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them. |
#5
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"Chris Lewis" wrote in message
... According to : On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 09:57:48 -0500, Crackles McFarly wrote: It's not flush with the ceiling, has about 1/8th inch all around. It worked good for 3 months, now it's wobbling like mad. I don't know much about how to fix or replace the box in the ceiling the fan is attached to. How much wobble is normal? How can I fix the fan, box, or both? NO wobble is normal. Sounds like a poorly done installation that is falling apart. A bit of wobble is normal - .... .....only for a lousy fan. I've lived with 3 Casablanca fans. No wobble. |
#7
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Run the fan at slow speed until you can get it fixed.
---MIKE--- In the White Mountains of New Hampshire (44° 15' N - Elevation 1580') |
#8
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#9
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On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 15:57:25 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
sayd the following: "Chris Lewis" wrote in message ... According to : On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 09:57:48 -0500, Crackles McFarly wrote: It's not flush with the ceiling, has about 1/8th inch all around. It worked good for 3 months, now it's wobbling like mad. I don't know much about how to fix or replace the box in the ceiling the fan is attached to. How much wobble is normal? How can I fix the fan, box, or both? NO wobble is normal. Sounds like a poorly done installation that is falling apart. A bit of wobble is normal - .... ....only for a lousy fan. I've lived with 3 Casablanca fans. No wobble. This fan is made by HUNTER. |
#10
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"Crackles McFarly" wrote in message
... On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 15:57:25 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" sayd the following: "Chris Lewis" wrote in message ... According to : On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 09:57:48 -0500, Crackles McFarly wrote: It's not flush with the ceiling, has about 1/8th inch all around. It worked good for 3 months, now it's wobbling like mad. I don't know much about how to fix or replace the box in the ceiling the fan is attached to. How much wobble is normal? How can I fix the fan, box, or both? NO wobble is normal. Sounds like a poorly done installation that is falling apart. A bit of wobble is normal - .... ....only for a lousy fan. I've lived with 3 Casablanca fans. No wobble. This fan is made by HUNTER. You have to differentiate between the minor wobble from a low quality fan, and a really abnormal situation due to bad installation, which seems to be the issue you're having. |
#11
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According to JoeSpareBedroom :
"Chris Lewis" wrote in message A bit of wobble is normal - .... ....only for a lousy fan. I've lived with 3 Casablanca fans. No wobble. At _all_ speeds, and a bit of dust unevenly distributed? We have a ceiling fan on a 2' drop shaft in a cathedral ceiling. Has been running almost 7x24 since 1984. At certain speeds it shakes a bit. At others it doesn't, so if it shakes, we tweak it. And dusting helps ;-) Not bad performance. I'd hate to have to replace that thing - 17' up over a brick floor and cast iron woodstove. And not a lot of room to get in a ladder. -- Chris Lewis, Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them. |
#12
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"Crackles McFarly" wrote in message
... On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 10:53:19 -0500, sayd the following: On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 10:44:26 -0500, Crackles McFarly wrote: On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 15:01:26 GMT, sayd the following: On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 09:57:48 -0500, Crackles McFarly wrote: It's not flush with the ceiling, has about 1/8th inch all around. It worked good for 3 months, now it's wobbling like mad. I don't know much about how to fix or replace the box in the ceiling the fan is attached to. How much wobble is normal? How can I fix the fan, box, or both? thanks NO wobble is normal. Sounds like a poorly done installation that is falling apart. Does it need a new box? Reason I ask is, the fan is as high as possible on the box, it cannot be moved higher. I'm the one who installed the fan and it worked perfect for 2.5-3 months, now the wobble. All the screws are tight. Would shims around the base to make it tight work or be safe? thanks to all. Box? To install a fan, you need more than just the electrical box that would be used for a light fixture. You need braces between the ceiling joists. They sell ceiling fan mounting kits for this. If you have accces from an attic above, it's easier, but it can be done from below if that's all you can get at. Here's an example: http://www.hardwareandtools.com/invt/6742753 If you can't get the fan mounted tight against the ceiling, then you box isn't mounted correctly anyway. Time to remove everything and start over. I suspect the reason the box was never mounted correctly is because it was to hold a simple 110 volt bulb with cover [maybe 3 pounds of weight] as opposed to this very heavy fan. Thanks and I'll check that URL. I would be very surprised if the instruction manual didn't mention using a braced box. Take another look at the instructions. |
#13
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"Chris Lewis" wrote in message
... According to JoeSpareBedroom : "Chris Lewis" wrote in message A bit of wobble is normal - .... ....only for a lousy fan. I've lived with 3 Casablanca fans. No wobble. At _all_ speeds, and a bit of dust unevenly distributed? Honest. No wobble. If you've never owned a Casablanca fan, you don't know what you're missing. I suspect most fan buyers don't own them because they're not sold at the big box stores. You have to make a major effort to open the phone book and find a lighting or electrical specialty store. And, they're not cheap. |
#14
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wrote in message
... On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 11:02:22 -0500, Crackles McFarly wrote: On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 10:53:19 -0500, sayd the following: On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 10:44:26 -0500, Crackles McFarly wrote: On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 15:01:26 GMT, sayd the following: On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 09:57:48 -0500, Crackles McFarly wrote: It's not flush with the ceiling, has about 1/8th inch all around. It worked good for 3 months, now it's wobbling like mad. I don't know much about how to fix or replace the box in the ceiling the fan is attached to. How much wobble is normal? How can I fix the fan, box, or both? thanks NO wobble is normal. Sounds like a poorly done installation that is falling apart. Does it need a new box? Reason I ask is, the fan is as high as possible on the box, it cannot be moved higher. I'm the one who installed the fan and it worked perfect for 2.5-3 months, now the wobble. All the screws are tight. Would shims around the base to make it tight work or be safe? thanks to all. Box? To install a fan, you need more than just the electrical box that would be used for a light fixture. You need braces between the ceiling joists. They sell ceiling fan mounting kits for this. If you have accces from an attic above, it's easier, but it can be done from below if that's all you can get at. Here's an example: http://www.hardwareandtools.com/invt/6742753 If you can't get the fan mounted tight against the ceiling, then you box isn't mounted correctly anyway. Time to remove everything and start over. I suspect the reason the box was never mounted correctly is because it was to hold a simple 110 volt bulb with cover [maybe 3 pounds of weight] as opposed to this very heavy fan. Thanks and I'll check that URL. I think we've establishjed what the problem is! That box was never intended to support the loads of a spinning ceiling fan. You'll need to get a proper braced box like the one I gave a link to. You can probaly find one at the same place you bought the fan for $20 or so. At least you already have all the wiring right there, and the fan is assembled, so this whole job shouldn't take more than an hour or two to correct. I would strongly suggest not using that fan at all until you fix this. It's not safe. Hey...let him use it. Maybe he wants to be the star of a news story that makes you think "Where do they FIND this stuff???" :-) |
#15
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"Crackles McFarly" wrote in message
... It's not flush with the ceiling, has about 1/8th inch all around. It worked good for 3 months, now it's wobbling like mad. I don't know much about how to fix or replace the box in the ceiling the fan is attached to. How much wobble is normal? How can I fix the fan, box, or both? thanks I looked at an installation manual at the Hunter site, and sure enough, it doesn't go into enough detail about proper support for the electrical box (although that should've been intuitive). But, the manual mentions a separate booklet that should've come with your fan: "The location of a ceiling fan and how the fan is attached to the building structure are essential for reliable operation, maximum efficiency, and energy savings. For this reason, we have included a separate booklet - "Guide to Choosing and Preparing a Ceiling Fan Site" - to help you select the best location for your fan. The booklet also provides information to ensure your fan support and electric outlet box meet UL-approved safety codes for ceiling fans. The instructions in this installation manual assume that you have used "Guide to Choosing and Preparing a Ceiling Fan Site" to pick the fan location and make certain the proper fan support and outlet box are installed." Did you check that booklet? It sounds like it would contain more detail about proper support methods. |
#16
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If it rocks, it is out of balance and with a poor installation it is tearing
itself loose from the ceiling. You need to do two things: 1 - You need to balance the fan, clean it first, if this doesn't work move blades around or add special weights they sell. 2 - You need to fix the anchor so that it is solid and doesn't come apart. There is a lot of info available on how to do this, do some research and fix it before it falls down. "Crackles McFarly" wrote in message ... It's not flush with the ceiling, has about 1/8th inch all around. It worked good for 3 months, now it's wobbling like mad. I don't know much about how to fix or replace the box in the ceiling the fan is attached to. How much wobble is normal? How can I fix the fan, box, or both? thanks |
#17
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JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Crackles McFarly" wrote in message ... It's not flush with the ceiling, has about 1/8th inch all around. It worked good for 3 months, now it's wobbling like mad. I don't know much about how to fix or replace the box in the ceiling the fan is attached to. How much wobble is normal? How can I fix the fan, box, or both? thanks I wouldn't be using that fan until the installation mistakes have been fixed. Ask friends & co-workers if they know an electrician they've been happy with in the past. Electrician because if the installation is mechanically incorrect, there's a good chance the wires may be funny too. You should also check to see if the fan blades mounting bolts are all tight. |
#18
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---MIKE--- wrote:
Run the fan at slow speed until you can get it fixed. ---MIKE--- In the White Mountains of New Hampshire (44° 15' N - Elevation 1580') I wouldn't run the fan at all till it's fixed. |
#19
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![]() wrote in message news:0EZ4j.213357$Xa3.106141@attbi_s22... ---MIKE--- wrote: Run the fan at slow speed until you can get it fixed. I wouldn't run the fan at all till it's fixed. Shhh!!! Let Darwin do his job! |
#20
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Get almost any electrical book from the library and it points out what
products and methods are req'd to isolate the electricity parts form the structrual parts, and how to install them. I believe there may be special products depoending on how/where you want to do this. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#21
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On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 22:44:32 GMT, "Noozer" sayd
the following: wrote in message news:0EZ4j.213357$Xa3.106141@attbi_s22... ---MIKE--- wrote: Run the fan at slow speed until you can get it fixed. I wouldn't run the fan at all till it's fixed. Shhh!!! Let Darwin do his job! There was no need for that comment. |
#22
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"Crackles McFarly" wrote in message
... On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 22:44:32 GMT, "Noozer" sayd the following: wrote in message news:0EZ4j.213357$Xa3.106141@attbi_s22... ---MIKE--- wrote: Run the fan at slow speed until you can get it fixed. I wouldn't run the fan at all till it's fixed. Shhh!!! Let Darwin do his job! There was no need for that comment. Your fan was supposed to come with a booklet separate from the instructions, which described the structural issues involved with mounting the fan securely. Did you read that booklet? |
#23
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Crackles McFarly wrote:
On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 22:44:32 GMT, "Noozer" sayd the following: wrote in message news:0EZ4j.213357$Xa3.106141@attbi_s22... ---MIKE--- wrote: Run the fan at slow speed until you can get it fixed. I wouldn't run the fan at all till it's fixed. Shhh!!! Let Darwin do his job! There was no need for that comment. What do you mean? |
#24
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On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 20:43:50 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
sayd the following: "Crackles McFarly" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 22:44:32 GMT, "Noozer" sayd the following: wrote in message news:0EZ4j.213357$Xa3.106141@attbi_s22... ---MIKE--- wrote: Run the fan at slow speed until you can get it fixed. I wouldn't run the fan at all till it's fixed. Shhh!!! Let Darwin do his job! There was no need for that comment. Your fan was supposed to come with a booklet separate from the instructions, which described the structural issues involved with mounting the fan securely. Did you read that booklet? It was a cheap fan and I read everything related to installation. Why does this make me a bad person? |
#25
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"Crackles McFarly" wrote in message
... On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 20:43:50 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" sayd the following: "Crackles McFarly" wrote in message . .. On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 22:44:32 GMT, "Noozer" sayd the following: wrote in message news:0EZ4j.213357$Xa3.106141@attbi_s22... ---MIKE--- wrote: Run the fan at slow speed until you can get it fixed. I wouldn't run the fan at all till it's fixed. Shhh!!! Let Darwin do his job! There was no need for that comment. Your fan was supposed to come with a booklet separate from the instructions, which described the structural issues involved with mounting the fan securely. Did you read that booklet? It was a cheap fan and I read everything related to installation. Why does this make me a bad person? I don't care what the price was. If a fan falls and hurts a customer, the manufacturer could be out a few million bucks after the lawsuit is settled. I would be very surprised if the instruction manual did NOT contain explicit instructions about how to make sure the electrical box was braced properly. So, let's assume the manual contained this information, but you ignored it. That *does* make you a bad person. You rushed the job and risked the safety of people in your home. Even without the information in the manual, you should've been observant enough to notice that the electrical box probably wasn't mounted in a way that would support a fan. Normally, the law says that for the first such offense, you are required to do what this guy did to himself: http://www.geocities.com/tcartz/sacrifice.htm We'll let you slide this time, but you'd better get with the program. |
#26
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wrote in message
... On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 17:49:27 -0500, Crackles McFarly wrote: On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 20:43:50 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" sayd the following: "Crackles McFarly" wrote in message ... On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 22:44:32 GMT, "Noozer" sayd the following: wrote in message news:0EZ4j.213357$Xa3.106141@attbi_s22... ---MIKE--- wrote: Run the fan at slow speed until you can get it fixed. I wouldn't run the fan at all till it's fixed. Shhh!!! Let Darwin do his job! There was no need for that comment. Your fan was supposed to come with a booklet separate from the instructions, which described the structural issues involved with mounting the fan securely. Did you read that booklet? It was a cheap fan and I read everything related to installation. Why does this make me a bad person? It doesn't. You now know what went wrong and how to fix it pretty easily. Ignore all the self-important a**holes who had no idea how to diagnose or fix your problem. No, not self-important. He didn't really read the instructions. He explicitly asked for the problem he's having now. |
#27
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On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:55:49 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
sayd the following: "Crackles McFarly" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 20:43:50 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" sayd the following: "Crackles McFarly" wrote in message ... On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 22:44:32 GMT, "Noozer" sayd the following: wrote in message news:0EZ4j.213357$Xa3.106141@attbi_s22... ---MIKE--- wrote: Run the fan at slow speed until you can get it fixed. I wouldn't run the fan at all till it's fixed. Shhh!!! Let Darwin do his job! There was no need for that comment. Your fan was supposed to come with a booklet separate from the instructions, which described the structural issues involved with mounting the fan securely. Did you read that booklet? It was a cheap fan and I read everything related to installation. Why does this make me a bad person? I don't care what the price was. If a fan falls and hurts a customer, the manufacturer could be out a few million bucks after the lawsuit is settled. I would be very surprised if the instruction manual did NOT contain explicit instructions about how to make sure the electrical box was braced properly. So, let's assume the manual contained this information, but you ignored it. That *does* make you a bad person. You rushed the job and risked the safety of people in your home. Even without the information in the manual, you should've been observant enough to notice that the electrical box probably wasn't mounted in a way that would support a fan. Normally, the law says that for the first such offense, you are required to do what this guy did to himself: http://www.geocities.com/tcartz/sacrifice.htm We'll let you slide this time, but you'd better get with the program. Yeah, whatever. |
#28
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"Crackles McFarly" wrote in message
... On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:55:49 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" sayd the following: "Crackles McFarly" wrote in message . .. On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 20:43:50 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" sayd the following: "Crackles McFarly" wrote in message g... On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 22:44:32 GMT, "Noozer" sayd the following: wrote in message news:0EZ4j.213357$Xa3.106141@attbi_s22... ---MIKE--- wrote: Run the fan at slow speed until you can get it fixed. I wouldn't run the fan at all till it's fixed. Shhh!!! Let Darwin do his job! There was no need for that comment. Your fan was supposed to come with a booklet separate from the instructions, which described the structural issues involved with mounting the fan securely. Did you read that booklet? It was a cheap fan and I read everything related to installation. Why does this make me a bad person? I don't care what the price was. If a fan falls and hurts a customer, the manufacturer could be out a few million bucks after the lawsuit is settled. I would be very surprised if the instruction manual did NOT contain explicit instructions about how to make sure the electrical box was braced properly. So, let's assume the manual contained this information, but you ignored it. That *does* make you a bad person. You rushed the job and risked the safety of people in your home. Even without the information in the manual, you should've been observant enough to notice that the electrical box probably wasn't mounted in a way that would support a fan. Normally, the law says that for the first such offense, you are required to do what this guy did to himself: http://www.geocities.com/tcartz/sacrifice.htm We'll let you slide this time, but you'd better get with the program. Yeah, whatever. Yeah whatever go find the instructions and read them. If you can't do that, hire a pro to reinstall the fan the right way. |
#29
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Would THIS ONE work at all???
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...926&lpage=none Thanks fellas. On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 09:57:48 -0500, Crackles McFarly sayd the following: It's not flush with the ceiling, has about 1/8th inch all around. It worked good for 3 months, now it's wobbling like mad. I don't know much about how to fix or replace the box in the ceiling the fan is attached to. How much wobble is normal? How can I fix the fan, box, or both? thanks |
#30
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"Crackles McFarly" wrote in message
... Would THIS ONE work at all??? http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...926&lpage=none Thanks fellas. That's the right idea. You threw away your instructions, didn't you? :-) C'mon. You can tell us. |
#31
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In article ,
Crackles McFarly wrote: Would THIS ONE work at all??? http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...273-427-926&lp age=none Thanks fellas. Yeah but you don't need it. You can do the same thing with lumber. The idea is just to fasten that ceiling box to the joists in some substantial way. I use a 2 x 4 spanning two joists from above, and build down from there with shorter pieces between the joists until I get to something I can screw the box to. I'm sure I could hang a V-8 engine block from my fans. |
#32
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On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 15:58:46 -0800, Smitty Two
sayd the following: In article , Crackles McFarly wrote: Would THIS ONE work at all??? http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...273-427-926&lp age=none Thanks fellas. Yeah but you don't need it. You can do the same thing with lumber. The idea is just to fasten that ceiling box to the joists in some substantial way. I use a 2 x 4 spanning two joists from above, and build down from there with shorter pieces between the joists until I get to something I can screw the box to. I'm sure I could hang a V-8 engine block from my fans. Ok, so the lowes product will work? |
#33
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"Crackles McFarly" wrote in message
... On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 15:58:46 -0800, Smitty Two sayd the following: In article , Crackles McFarly wrote: Would THIS ONE work at all??? http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...273-427-926&lp age=none Thanks fellas. Yeah but you don't need it. You can do the same thing with lumber. The idea is just to fasten that ceiling box to the joists in some substantial way. I use a 2 x 4 spanning two joists from above, and build down from there with shorter pieces between the joists until I get to something I can screw the box to. I'm sure I could hang a V-8 engine block from my fans. Ok, so the lowes product will work? Yes, it will work. The thing you're talking about was probably discussed in your fan's instruction manual, which you threw away. |
#34
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JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Crackles McFarly" wrote in message ... On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 15:58:46 -0800, Smitty Two sayd the following: In article , Crackles McFarly wrote: Would THIS ONE work at all??? http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...273-427-926&lp age=none Thanks fellas. Yeah but you don't need it. You can do the same thing with lumber. The idea is just to fasten that ceiling box to the joists in some substantial way. I use a 2 x 4 spanning two joists from above, and build down from there with shorter pieces between the joists until I get to something I can screw the box to. I'm sure I could hang a V-8 engine block from my fans. Ok, so the lowes product will work? Yes, it will work. The thing you're talking about was probably discussed in your fan's instruction manual, which you threw away. Real men don't read the instructions. They just whine when an item doesn't work like it should. Hence the tv show Home Improvement. Ooooo Ooooo Ooooo |
#35
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wrote in message news:jxJ6j.224543$Xa3.17865@attbi_s22...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote: "Crackles McFarly" wrote in message ... On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 15:58:46 -0800, Smitty Two sayd the following: In article , Crackles McFarly wrote: Would THIS ONE work at all??? http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...273-427-926&lp age=none Thanks fellas. Yeah but you don't need it. You can do the same thing with lumber. The idea is just to fasten that ceiling box to the joists in some substantial way. I use a 2 x 4 spanning two joists from above, and build down from there with shorter pieces between the joists until I get to something I can screw the box to. I'm sure I could hang a V-8 engine block from my fans. Ok, so the lowes product will work? Yes, it will work. The thing you're talking about was probably discussed in your fan's instruction manual, which you threw away. Real men don't read the instructions. They just whine when an item doesn't work like it should. Hence the tv show Home Improvement. Ooooo Ooooo Ooooo That's what I've heard, but I took a different approach: Overkill. Eliminate any possible reason for the wife to complain. Indirectly, this benefited me because when I said I needed a new power tool, there were never any questions. :-) |
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