"kool" wrote in message

Galvanized pipe and fittings are for water, not gas.

Or more specifically for OP if indeed didn't know, galvanized is not used
for gas because impurities in natural gas can react negatively w/ the
zinc.


That's an old wives(husbands) tale.This used to be the case years ago when
the zinc coating would flake off, but methods of bonding have improved
over the years. Galvanized sched. 40 pipe is not only approved but is
recommended for natural gas use, specially outdoors and/or underground,in
most juridictions.

Better read up
http://www.mesacounty.us/building/res_plumbing.htm
6. Galvanized coated pipe is not deemed adequate coating for underground
use.

http://www.acehardware.com/sm-learn-...g-1267591.html
Galvanized pipe is commonly used for water systems, black pipe for
manufactured and natural gas. Galvanized pipe should never be used for gas
installations. Plumbing codes in many areas require that black pipe,
especially that used underground, be coated and wrapped.

Our local inspect still does not allow galvanized for any gas. That varies
by jurisdiction.

kool wrote:
"dpb" wrote in message ...
Doug Miller wrote:
In article AcBni.130604$NV3.28701@pd7urf2no, "kool"
wrote:
wrote in message
.net...
That's why you should buy hardware at a real hardware store, to keep
them in business for when you need quality and service.

Recently I was picking up small parts for a couple of projects at once.
Walking through the plumbing department I had a couple of galvanized
pipe fittings and a roll of yellow gas-grade Teflon tape in my hand.

As I walked by the guy stocking the shelves, without being asked, he
politely asked, "Excuse me, but were you going to use those fittings
for
gas?"
I don't get it.?
Galvanized pipe and fittings are for water, not gas.
Or more specifically for OP if indeed didn't know, galvanized is not used
for gas because impurities in natural gas can react negatively w/ the
zinc.


That's an old wives(husbands) tale.This used to be the case years ago when
....

No, it's code in many places and was based on corrosion tests/results.

There's a fairly recent paper on it on the web that confirms some issues
still (mostly w/ imported LNG) that I looked at not very long ago but
I'm not interested enough to dig it up again at the moment.

--

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
news:FFOni.6724$Wh4.695@trndny06...

"kool" wrote in message

Galvanized pipe and fittings are for water, not gas.

Or more specifically for OP if indeed didn't know, galvanized is not
used for gas because impurities in natural gas can react negatively w/
the zinc.


That's an old wives(husbands) tale.This used to be the case years ago
when the zinc coating would flake off, but methods of bonding have
improved over the years. Galvanized sched. 40 pipe is not only approved
but is recommended for natural gas use, specially outdoors and/or
underground,in most juridictions.

Better read up
http://www.mesacounty.us/building/res_plumbing.htm
6. Galvanized coated pipe is not deemed adequate coating for underground
use.

http://www.acehardware.com/sm-learn-...g-1267591.html
Galvanized pipe is commonly used for water systems, black pipe for
manufactured and natural gas. Galvanized pipe should never be used for gas
installations. Plumbing codes in many areas require that black pipe,
especially that used underground, be coated and wrapped.

Our local inspect still does not allow galvanized for any gas. That
varies by jurisdiction.

One of us has "read up"

From YOUR first link

2. Shall be standard weight wrought iron or steel (galvanized or black),
yellow brass (containing not more than 75% copper) or internally tinned or
equivalently treated copper of iron pipe size.
http://www.pgworks.com/documents/piping%20specs.pdf
1.4.2 Pipe exposed to the weather must be properly sized. Galvanized pipe or
protectively coated wrought iron or steel pipe shall be used.
http://www.uniongas.com/business/cha...rification.pdf
Due to the changes in natural gas content
and plumbing practices, it was decided
that "galvanized" pipe and fittings is now
acceptable for use with natural gas if a
person wishes to use it.

Who do you believe True hardware or Union Gas?

"kool" wrote in message
Galvanized sched. 40 pipe is not only approved but is recommended for
natural gas use, specially outdoors and/or underground,in most
juridictions.


One of us has "read up"

From YOUR first link

2. Shall be standard weight wrought iron or steel (galvanized or black),

Who do you believe True hardware or Union Gas?

You ignored and left out
6. Galvanized coated pipe is not deemed adequate coating for underground
use.

In the first post (see what I left above for your reference) you stated
galvanized is recommended for underground. This specifically states that it
is not acceptable. Read what you wrote, read what was posted in the link
that you referenced. See the contradiction?

Furthermore, I referenced Ace Hardware. Why are you bringing True Value
into this? Having reading comprehension problems?

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
. net...

"kool" wrote in message
Galvanized sched. 40 pipe is not only approved but is recommended for
natural gas use, specially outdoors and/or underground,in most
juridictions.


One of us has "read up"

From YOUR first link

2. Shall be standard weight wrought iron or steel (galvanized or black),

Who do you believe True hardware or Union Gas?

You ignored and left out
6. Galvanized coated pipe is not deemed adequate coating for underground
use.

In the first post (see what I left above for your reference) you stated
galvanized is recommended for underground. This specifically states that
it is not acceptable. Read what you wrote, read what was posted in the
link that you referenced. See the contradiction?

Furthermore, I referenced Ace Hardware. Why are you bringing True Value
into this? Having reading comprehension problems?


Excuse me Edwin, you did reference Ace Hardware and not True Value, I did
have a reading comprehension problem with that, I am not sure that matters
much but I think I would take the word of a utility authority such as Union
Gas over ANY hardware store chain regarding gas code regulations, wouldn't
you?

I also said that galvanized pipe is prefered over black pipe for underground
installation , and left out the fact that ALL underground pipe , including
galvanized ,MUST be coated and wrapped except approved plastic.
I recently installed 130ft. of 1" galvanized sched.40 pipe across a flat
roof on a commercial building and had it approved and passed by local
inspector as I am a Class 1 gas fitter. Are you?

Just in case you didn't check the reference:

Use of galvanized pipe in a natural
gas piping system
Code Clarification
procedures issue date 1998-07
supercedes
page issue date
approved by
section
reference 01.9

QUESTION
The new Code no longer specifically
bans the use of galvanized piping in a
natural gas system. By the Code silence
on the use of it, is it now acceptable?

ANSWER
Refer to Clause 5.2.1 in the Ontario Gas
Utilisation Code.
Galvanized pipe is steel, hot-dipped,
zinc coated, welded and seamless pipe
which complies with the ASTM A53
Standard. Black pipe is actually
galvanized pipe that is treated with a
black coating but still complies with the
ASTM A53 Standard.
In the past, the high sulphur and
moisture content in the gas caused a
vapour to form which was corrosive to
the galvanised coating resulting in
flaking off of the coating which plugged
gas valves. Gas supplies are now dried
and processed in a manner that removes
95% or more of the moisture and
sulphur content.
Also, at one time prior to the use of copper
tubing, all water piping was galvanized
pipe, which after installation could
become confused with galvanized natural
gas piping.
Due to the changes in natural gas content
and plumbing practices, it was decided
that "galvanized" pipe and fittings is now
acceptable for use with natural gas if a
person wishes to use it.

"kool" wrote in message +

I think I would take the word of a utility authority such as Union Gas
over ANY hardware store chain regarding gas code regulations, wouldn't
you?


No, I'd take the word of the local inspector. In the town where our factory
is, galvanized is still not allowed. Easier to use black pipe than to try
and argue with him.



I also said that galvanized pipe is prefered over black pipe for
underground installation , and left out the fact that ALL underground pipe
, including galvanized ,MUST be coated and wrapped except approved
plastic.


That is what I questioned. That is why I referenced
6. Galvanized coated pipe is not deemed adequate coating for underground
use.

From your statement it is easy to infer galvanized is all that is needed
underground. We both know that it is not.


I recently installed 130ft. of 1" galvanized sched.40 pipe across a flat
roof on a commercial building and had it approved and passed by local
inspector as I am a Class 1 gas fitter. Are you?

No, I hire one as needed. That is not always a good thing. I certainly hope
you are better than the first one I used.

When I had a boiler installed, the pipefitters were from the next state and
did not have a local gasfitters license. I had to hire a gasfitter. What a
joke. He had the plant shut down for four hours to thread a 4" pipe that
the other guys could have cut and welded in 15 minutes. He had the right
piece of paper to satisfy the inspector though. Fortunately, I've since
found a good one.

On Jul 17, 5:47 am, wrote:
I went to Walmart to get a few tubes of silicone caulk to fix some
leaks on my barn roof. Just loose nails mostly. They were out of
silicone and I asked a worker to check for some in the back. He comes
back and says they dont have any. That should have been the end of
the discussion but the idiot tells me regular caulk will work and
hands me a tube. I said no, it wont stick well enough. Then he hands
me some construction adhesive and says "this will stick". I begin to
explain that is not intended to be a caulk, when the asshole butts in
and tells me I am wrong, and it IS a caulk. About this time another
worker, a woman comes over and asks me what is wrong, I explain
fixing my roof and she hands me a tube of asphalt roof patching, and
insists this is better than silicone. Thats when I got ****ed and
said "I only want silicone", and announced I will go to Home Depot.

I worked in the home construction trades for over 30 years. I know
what I want. and know what to use. I pity the average homeowner who
takes this advice and ends up with a real mess because these idiot
Walmart employes dont know anything but act like they do, just to make
a quick sale. I never asked for their opinions in the first place. I
only asked of they had any silicone caulk in the stock room.

Am I the only one who thinks silicone sucks for most things? Seems to
me that unless the silicone is going to be pressed between 2 objects,
it's pretty useless. I see people using silicone to seal windows on
the outside [for example] and it ends up coming off in long strings.

Oh, and unless you know the guy is on the ball, explaining yourself to
a bigbox retailer employee is stupid. As someone mentioned, I'm just
thrilled if the dope knows where the damn thing is.

And I must say it's heartening to see others not buy into the
"SprawlMart is so cheap" mythology.

In article om,
says...
On Jul 17, 5:47 am, wrote:
I went to Walmart to get a few tubes of silicone caulk to fix some
leaks on my barn roof. Just loose nails mostly. They were out of
silicone and I asked a worker to check for some in the back. He comes
back and says they dont have any. That should have been the end of
the discussion but the idiot tells me regular caulk will work and
hands me a tube. I said no, it wont stick well enough. Then he hands
me some construction adhesive and says "this will stick". I begin to
explain that is not intended to be a caulk, when the asshole butts in
and tells me I am wrong, and it IS a caulk. About this time another
worker, a woman comes over and asks me what is wrong, I explain
fixing my roof and she hands me a tube of asphalt roof patching, and
insists this is better than silicone. Thats when I got ****ed and
said "I only want silicone", and announced I will go to Home Depot.

I worked in the home construction trades for over 30 years. I know
what I want. and know what to use. I pity the average homeowner who
takes this advice and ends up with a real mess because these idiot
Walmart employes dont know anything but act like they do, just to make
a quick sale. I never asked for their opinions in the first place. I
only asked of they had any silicone caulk in the stock room.

Am I the only one who thinks silicone sucks for most things? Seems to
me that unless the silicone is going to be pressed between 2 objects,
it's pretty useless. I see people using silicone to seal windows on
the outside [for example] and it ends up coming off in long strings.

Maybe you(they) didn't clean the windows first? I put elastomeric
silicon/acrylic caulk around an window air conditioner (mounted
through the wall) ten years ago. The caulk still looks like new.

Oh, and unless you know the guy is on the ball, explaining yourself to
a bigbox retailer employee is stupid. As someone mentioned, I'm just
thrilled if the dope knows where the damn thing is.

Maybe your explanations aren't any better than your cleaning of the
windows. ;-) Most of the employees at the BORG here are pretty good.
They're really the only game in town for most things.

And I must say it's heartening to see others not buy into the
"SprawlMart is so cheap" mythology.

You're not required to shop there, are you?

--
Keith

Is reading comprehension a problem -- I'm talking about silicone
caulking, not siliconized acrylic. And I'm talking about run-of-the-
mill homeowners. sheesh



On Jul 20, 9:26 pm, krw wrote:
In article om,
says...



On Jul 17, 5:47 am, wrote:
I went to Walmart to get a few tubes of silicone caulk to fix some
leaks on my barn roof. Just loose nails mostly. They were out of
silicone and I asked a worker to check for some in the back. He comes
back and says they dont have any. That should have been the end of
the discussion but the idiot tells me regular caulk will work and
hands me a tube. I said no, it wont stick well enough. Then he hands
me some construction adhesive and says "this will stick". I begin to
explain that is not intended to be a caulk, when the asshole butts in
and tells me I am wrong, and it IS a caulk. About this time another
worker, a woman comes over and asks me what is wrong, I explain
fixing my roof and she hands me a tube of asphalt roof patching, and
insists this is better than silicone. Thats when I got ****ed and
said "I only want silicone", and announced I will go to Home Depot.

I worked in the home construction trades for over 30 years. I know
what I want. and know what to use. I pity the average homeowner who
takes this advice and ends up with a real mess because these idiot
Walmart employes dont know anything but act like they do, just to make
a quick sale. I never asked for their opinions in the first place. I
only asked of they had any silicone caulk in the stock room.

Am I the only one who thinks silicone sucks for most things? Seems to
me that unless the silicone is going to be pressed between 2 objects,
it's pretty useless. I see people using silicone to seal windows on
the outside [for example] and it ends up coming off in long strings.

Maybe you(they) didn't clean the windows first? I put elastomeric
silicon/acrylic caulk around an window air conditioner (mounted
through the wall) ten years ago. The caulk still looks like new.

Oh, and unless you know the guy is on the ball, explaining yourself to
a bigbox retailer employee is stupid. As someone mentioned, I'm just
thrilled if the dope knows where the damn thing is.

Maybe your explanations aren't any better than your cleaning of the
windows. ;-) Most of the employees at the BORG here are pretty good.
They're really the only game in town for most things.

And I must say it's heartening to see others not buy into the
"SprawlMart is so cheap" mythology.

You're not required to shop there, are you?

--
Keith

Are you looking for an argument? sheesh I'm talking about silicone,
not siliconized acrylic; and I'm talking about homeowners' use of it.
The rest of your post wasn't even necessary.

On Jul 20, 9:26 pm, krw wrote:


Maybe you(they) didn't clean the windows first? I put elastomeric
silicon/acrylic caulk around an window air conditioner (mounted
through the wall) ten years ago. The caulk still looks like new.

Maybe your explanations aren't any better than your cleaning of the
windows.

You're not required to shop there, are you?

Keith

Don't gas fittings have threads the opposite way? To prevent people
from accidentally/stupidly attaching gas pipes to water pipes? Or am
I wrong about this?

Anyway, I stopped believing in trusting advice given in mom & pop
hardware stores. The first time the clerk told me, when I was buying
lamp cord, which color was for positive and which for negative... it
took me ten minutes to explain alternating current to him.

The second time, in a different store, I was looking for ground wire
for an outlet (replacing old two-wire outlets with three-wire,
grounded, outlets). I told him I wanted 12 gauge green wire. He kept
telling me that color didn't matter. And I insisted that I was pretty
sure that either green or uninsulated was the standard for ground.

I don't like my local Home Depot (and I'm a shareholder) but I don't
see a greater level of service/advice from my local hardware stores.
And when I bought a new house and wanted cover plates for outlets and
light switches, they were around 12 cents at HD and 79 cents at the
local store.

In article .com,
says...

Are you looking for an argument? sheesh I'm talking about silicone,
not siliconized acrylic; and I'm talking about homeowners' use of it.
The rest of your post wasn't even necessary.

No, but evidently you are. You didn't need to answer twice with the
same ****-for-brains attitude each time.

On Jul 20, 9:26 pm, krw wrote:


Maybe you(they) didn't clean the windows first? I put elastomeric
silicon/acrylic caulk around an window air conditioner (mounted
through the wall) ten years ago. The caulk still looks like new.

Maybe your explanations aren't any better than your cleaning of the
windows.

You're not required to shop there, are you?

Keith




--
Keith

"Shaun Eli" wrote in message
Anyway, I stopped believing in trusting advice given in mom & pop
hardware stores. The first time the clerk told me, when I was buying
lamp cord, which color was for positive and which for negative... it
took me ten minutes to explain alternating current to him.

Uh, take a good look at some of your cords; note the subtle difference.
Take a look at the plugs for polarity. If you don't see the differences,
go to a good hardware store and ask the guy about it.

On Jul 27, 10:33 pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"Shaun Eli" wrote in message
Anyway, I stopped believing in trusting advice given in mom & pop
hardware stores. The first time the clerk told me, when I was buying
lamp cord, which color was for positive and which for negative... it
took me ten minutes to explain alternating current to him.

Uh, take a good look at some of your cords; note the subtle difference.
Take a look at the plugs for polarity. If you don't see the differences,
go to a good hardware store and ask the guy about it.

I know the difference between hot, neutral and ground, and about
polarized plugs.

I also know that positive and negative don't apply to alternating
current (or apply to it differently around 120 times each second). So
when he said that one was positive and the other was negative, and
that "This cord will give you a good current" I knew to shop
elsewhere.

Sure, the guy in the plumbing department of Home Depot may not know
about plumbing (although my last trip to the plumbing aisle of HD
revealed an employee who's a plumber working at HD on one of his days
off), but at least they're trying to specialize. I can't expect even
the most experienced hardware store guy to be an expert in plumbing,
painting, electrical, roofing...

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Shaun Eli" wrote in message
The first time the clerk told me, when I was buying
lamp cord, which color was for positive and which for negative... it
took me ten minutes to explain alternating current to him.

Uh, take a good look at some of your cords; note the subtle difference.
Take a look at the plugs for polarity. If you don't see the differences,
go to a good hardware store and ask the guy about it.

So tell us, which color of lamp cord is positive and which is negative?

--
"Liberals used to be the ones who argued that sending U.S. troops abroad
was a small price to pay to stop genocide; now they argue that genocide
is a small price to pay to bring U.S. troops home."
-- Jonah Goldberg

In article .com, Shaun
Eli wrote:
On Jul 27, 10:33 pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"Shaun Eli" wrote in message
Anyway, I stopped believing in trusting advice given in mom & pop
hardware stores. The first time the clerk told me, when I was buying
lamp cord, which color was for positive and which for negative... it
took me ten minutes to explain alternating current to him.

Actually the issue is hot and neutral, and usually the coding is a few
fine ridges running along the hot side of the cord.

In my experience, mom and pop hardware stores on average do a little
better in that area and comparable areas than big box home centers do, and
*a lot better* than big-box-stores other than home centers.

Uh, take a good look at some of your cords; note the subtle difference.
Take a look at the plugs for polarity. If you don't see the differences,
go to a good hardware store and ask the guy about it.

I know the difference between hot, neutral and ground, and about
polarized plugs.

I also know that positive and negative don't apply to alternating
current (or apply to it differently around 120 times each second). So
when he said that one was positive and the other was negative, and
that "This cord will give you a good current" I knew to shop
elsewhere.

You must have run into someone at a mom-and-pop hardware store who
needed more training, possible "The Wrong" mom-and-pop hardware store.
I suspect that person called "hot" "positive" and "neutral" "negative".

Sure, the guy in the plumbing department of Home Depot may not know
about plumbing (although my last trip to the plumbing aisle of HD
revealed an employee who's a plumber working at HD on one of his days
off), but at least they're trying to specialize. I can't expect even
the most experienced hardware store guy to be an expert in plumbing,
painting, electrical, roofing...

I expect that the local hardware store has some or most of their staff
knowing some stuff about plumbing and some electrical stuff.

I also expect a big box home center to ideally desire a retired
electrician to serve people looking for answers in the electrical aisle
and a retired plumber to serve people looking for answers in the plumbing
aisle, etc.
Sounds good so far - but here is where I see things falling apart: The
big box stores are owned by publicly traded corporations, whose shares are
mostly owned by mutual funds, pension funds, and whatever else cares about
bottom line more than anything else. The corporation's management at all
levels from top to lowest level supervisor has Priority 1 being maximizing
"The Bottom Line".
As a result, I expect at many to most "big box home centers" some
hotshot manager figures he can hire *some* electrical expert and *some*
plumbing expert at wages only a inor to minorish-moderate improvement over
burger-flipper. It appears to me that such a manager expects that he can
find someone to take such jobs at such wages - plenty-often true as I see.
It appears to me that such a manager hopes to get, for example, an
electrician who retired from electrician work to retire from bending his
back in a painful way but still needs employment.
Now the rub: People with good work attitude, good time management
skills and good "people skills" and with "can do work ethic" can make
not-too-bad a living as delivery drivers for package shipping companies
and for some pizza (and other delivery food) outfits that are willing to
pay for good delivery drivers.
Heck, what do "Big Box" stores pay retired licensed electricians to help
people in the electrical aisle? Can a retired good electrician do better
than that as a good pizza delivery driver or as a staffer in an electrical
or lighting supply shop?

I really suspect that all-too-many "big box home centers" want to hire
"plumbing experts", "electrical experts", whatever, at wages that can only
buy the labor of someone unable to do well as a truck driver, pizza
delivery driver, etc. I also suspect that the big-box managers will get
what they pay for, and that this pushes for shifting some responsibility
of knowledge from the too-busy or not-the-best staffers to the customers.

As I see it, family-owned businesses and for that matter all businesses
owned by so much as tyrants have an advantage over publicly owned
corporations: Some tyrants have such things as consciences and hearts.
I see consciences and hearts being all-too-often expendable if they have
any negative impact on the bottom line of a publicly owned corporation,
since a "publicly owned corporation" is typically owned mostly by those
who care about bottom line or growth thereof more than anything else.

- Don Klipstein )

On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 22:40:56 -0500, clifto wrote:

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Shaun Eli" wrote in message
The first time the clerk told me, when I was buying
lamp cord, which color was for positive and which for negative... it
took me ten minutes to explain alternating current to him.

Uh, take a good look at some of your cords; note the subtle difference.
Take a look at the plugs for polarity. If you don't see the differences,
go to a good hardware store and ask the guy about it.

So tell us, which color of lamp cord is positive and which is negative?

It isn't that there is a pos and neg. it is which is hot and ehcich is
neutral. think of it this way, would you rather have the outer shell
of the socket hot or the innner dot of the socket hot?

"clifto" wrote in message
...
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Shaun Eli" wrote in message
The first time the clerk told me, when I was buying
lamp cord, which color was for positive and which for negative... it
took me ten minutes to explain alternating current to him.

Uh, take a good look at some of your cords; note the subtle difference.
Take a look at the plugs for polarity. If you don't see the
differences,
go to a good hardware store and ask the guy about it.

So tell us, which color of lamp cord is positive and which is negative?


Take a look at the typical lamp cord. One side will have some grooves in
the extruded side of the rubber and that is on the positive side of the
polarized plug. Note that one side of the plug is larger so it can only
fit one way. Speaker wire, for instance is usually a copper wire on one
side a silver wire on the other. Same reason, it allows you to keep the
polarity the same on the entire system. I've seen extension cord wire made
like that years ago, but I don't think it is today. Easier and cheaper to
make the insulation different.

On Jul 29, 7:54 am, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"clifto" wrote in message

...

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Shaun Eli" wrote in message
The first time the clerk told me, when I was buying
lamp cord, which color was for positive and which for negative... it
took me ten minutes to explain alternating current to him.

Uh, take a good look at some of your cords; note the subtle difference.
Take a look at the plugs for polarity. If you don't see the
differences,
go to a good hardware store and ask the guy about it.

So tell us, which color of lamp cord is positive and which is negative?

Take a look at the typical lamp cord. One side will have some grooves in
the extruded side of the rubber and that is on the positive side of the
polarized plug.

You must have DC in your house. The rest of us have AC and there is
no positive, only a hot, neutral and ground.




Note that one side of the plug is larger so it can only
fit one way. Speaker wire, for instance is usually a copper wire on one
side a silver wire on the other. Same reason, it allows you to keep the
polarity the same on the entire system. I've seen extension cord wire made
like that years ago, but I don't think it is today. Easier and cheaper to
make the insulation different.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"clifto" wrote...
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Shaun Eli" wrote in message
The first time the clerk told me, when I was buying
lamp cord, which color was for positive and which for negative... it
took me ten minutes to explain alternating current to him.

Uh, take a good look at some of your cords; note the subtle difference.
Take a look at the plugs for polarity. If you don't see the
differences,
go to a good hardware store and ask the guy about it.

So tell us, which color of lamp cord is positive and which is negative?

Take a look at the typical lamp cord. One side will have some grooves in
the extruded side of the rubber and that is on the positive side of the
polarized plug.

I know about the grooves. I don't know anything about a positive side of
the AC line or of the plug that connects to the AC line. I also never
found any standard for the grooved wire's use.

On a polarized 110V 15A plug, the smaller prong is hot and the larger is
neutral. Where there is a third wire for ground, as the contacts are
facing away from the holder and toward an outlet, the smaller hot contact
is on the right when the ground is down.

--
"Liberals used to be the ones who argued that sending U.S. troops abroad
was a small price to pay to stop genocide; now they argue that genocide
is a small price to pay to bring U.S. troops home."
-- Jonah Goldberg

In article , clifto wrote:
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"clifto" wrote...
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Shaun Eli" wrote in message
The first time the clerk told me, when I was buying
lamp cord, which color was for positive and which for negative... it
took me ten minutes to explain alternating current to him.

Uh, take a good look at some of your cords; note the subtle difference.
Take a look at the plugs for polarity. If you don't see the
differences,
go to a good hardware store and ask the guy about it.

So tell us, which color of lamp cord is positive and which is negative?

Take a look at the typical lamp cord. One side will have some grooves in
the extruded side of the rubber and that is on the positive side of the
polarized plug.

I know about the grooves. I don't know anything about a positive side of
the AC line or of the plug that connects to the AC line. I also never
found any standard for the grooved wire's use.

I have heard of one - grooves on the neutral side. I have tested for
that a few times from about 1980 to a few minutes ago and found that to be
always true with exception only by homebrewers unaware of this.

On a polarized 110V 15A plug, the smaller prong is hot and the larger is
neutral. Where there is a third wire for ground, as the contacts are
facing away from the holder and toward an outlet, the smaller hot contact
is on the right when the ground is down.

--
"Liberals used to be the ones who argued that sending U.S. troops abroad
was a small price to pay to stop genocide; now they argue that genocide
is a small price to pay to bring U.S. troops home."

Back in the pre-911 days, I saw most liberal complaints in that area not
asking for sending troops but for merely stopping support of undemocratic
regimes and repudiating past support thereof (such as the ones of
Pinochet and Samoza).

As for Iraq, I think best-to-have-done was to not get into that sideshow
detracting from the war on terrorism. Second-best was to go in with the
troop strength advised by the less-Bush-favored higher generals advising
higher troop strength, as in having in place double-triple what we had
once Saddam lost power as opposed to ignoring history to be optimistic
that mid-easterners will be optimistic and mostly quick to work hard to
build a democracy out of a nation liberated from a dictator. That
high side troop strength would have prevented the Sunni insurgents
from discrediting USA via taking advantage of inability to maintain
adequate security.

-- Jonah Goldberg

- Don Klipstein )