Just had new roof, eavestroughs with flashing installed last spring.
This year we have these wet streaks running down one side of the house
(see pic here http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?i...898931qq3.jpg).

Did they screw up? Prior to having the work done, our original 40+ year
old gutters never did this at any time of the year (rain or snow melt
down)...

Been trying to get a hold of the roofer but wouldn't you know it they
never seem to return our calls! : (

If anybody could offer their wisdom I'd really appreciate it...it will
also help once I get a hold of our roofer...

Thanks in advance!
Melanie

There's been a whole lot of snow/ice build up and a very quick melt this
year. That aid, this shouldn't happen. I'd say that melting snow has caused
ice dams that have forced the water between the gutter edge and the roof
edge, then it melted and you've got the water you see. It's probalby caused
damage to the gutter/roof at these spots so it should be fixed. It was
problaby a bad install, but this year has seen a lot of stuff liek this --
ice dams are quite common this year.I think the freaky weather and lots of
ice has revealed problems that come form poor workmanship or faulty
materials. So in a way it's a good thing -- better to find out now than ten
years form now.

Get them up on the roof and fixing it. If they don't call you back, tell
them you're getting a home inspection done and get a home inspector to check
the damage and sign off on the estimated costs of repair, and tell them
you'll be hiring someone else and suing them in small claims court. If they
don't fix it, do that.

"Melanie" wrote in message
...
Just had new roof, eavestroughs with flashing installed last spring. This
year we have these wet streaks running down one side of the house (see pic
here http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?i...898931qq3.jpg).

Did they screw up? Prior to having the work done, our original 40+ year
old gutters never did this at any time of the year (rain or snow melt
down)...

Been trying to get a hold of the roofer but wouldn't you know it they
never seem to return our calls! : (

If anybody could offer their wisdom I'd really appreciate it...it will
also help once I get a hold of our roofer...

Thanks in advance!
Melanie

In article ,
wrote:

: On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 22:39:31 -0500, Melanie
: wrote:
:
: Just had new roof, eavestroughs with flashing installed last spring.
: This year we have these wet streaks running down one side of the house
: (see pic here http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?i...898931qq3.jpg).
:
: Did they screw up? Prior to having the work done, our original 40+ year
: old gutters never did this at any time of the year (rain or snow melt
: down)...
:
: Been trying to get a hold of the roofer but wouldn't you know it they
: never seem to return our calls! : (
:
: If anybody could offer their wisdom I'd really appreciate it...it will
: also help once I get a hold of our roofer...
:
: Thanks in advance!
: Melanie
:
:
: If you haven't had ice dams you have a roof leak

Another possibility is improper venting causing humidity buildup on the
underside of the roof.

The picture shows some soffit vents which is a good start. You should check to
be sure these aren't obstructed in any way. You'll also need some sort of vent
higher up the roof, usually near the peak.

You'll also want to check to see that any bathroom or kitchen vents vent
directly to the outside, *not* to the attic space. The same goes for any
plumbing vents. These may have been covered over by a lazy/incompetent roofing
crew.

Some of these checks will require rummaging around in the attic. While you're up
there, keep a lookout for any insulation that looks sooty or dirty, which is an
indication of an air leak from the building.

Also examine the underside of the sheathing. There should not be any signs of
moisture like staining of the wood, rust marks from nails, etc.

Ensure that there are baffles near the eaves to hold the insulation back and
allow air to pass from the soffit vents up through the rest of the attic.

Be sure to post your findings.


Cheers - Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler

--
Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler - Master of Code-fu
-- -- http://www.ubb.ca/ --

On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 00:18:30 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 22:39:31 -0500, Melanie
wrote:

Just had new roof, eavestroughs with flashing installed last spring.
This year we have these wet streaks running down one side of the house
(see pic here http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?i...898931qq3.jpg).

Did they screw up? Prior to having the work done, our original 40+ year
old gutters never did this at any time of the year (rain or snow melt
down)...

You never had them before, but you don't say when you have them now.

After rain maybe, but I've learned not to assume things.

I would tie my ankle to door and lean out the window to find out if
the eave is wet between the gutter and the wall. You might be able to
see that it is while still inside the window, especially if you use
binoculars, even for 3 or 4 feet, but I can imagine that the water
runs thin and you won't be able to see it.

You can probably take a piece of paper or cloth on a stick and touch
it to the eave and see if it comes back wet.

Maybe that is good enough. When I started I wanted you to touch the
eave in the middles horizontally of the wet marks, to make sure the
water was coming across the eave. But if you can tell with cloth on a
stick, you may not need to tie your ankle to the door. (STill, better
safe than sorry.)

If it is coming from the gutter, I guess it is his responsibility.

Been trying to get a hold of the roofer but wouldn't you know it they
never seem to return our calls! : (

I guess you call another gutter guy and get an estimate on what is
wrong, and what it will cost to fix. Best if he says on the estimate
that the current gutters were installed wrong.

Even better if he says that on the paid bill, but if he says it, I
would insist that he put it on the bill before I hired him to do it.

Because courts want some connection between your second bill that
shows inferior work done by the first guy. The pictures will help a
bit but a statement by an expert, anotehr gutter guy, will help much
more.

And the next step is to sue the first guy if you are honestly
convinced that the water is coming from the gutter and that it's the
guttery guy's fault.

Maybe you should leave a message saying what you plan to do, hire
someone else and sue for the cost, and that will get him to return
your call.

There comes a point where one loses faith, and wants someone else. I
don't know where that point is.

But you should also consider the possibility that his wife was in an
accident and is in a coma and he's spending every minute by her side
in the hospital, and can't be bothered with calls from anyone but
doctor and the specialist. Or a hundred other possilities that could
fairly prevent him from returning the calls.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't hire someone else, or sue, and collect
your damages, but you shouldn't rush it except to prevent damage to
your house, if that is going to happen. Nor should you delay
excessively. But you shouldn't feel anger or hate.

We judge others by their actions and we judge ourselves by our
intentions. Which is pretty much like saying that when we have a good
excuse for not getting something done, we take that into consideration
and don't blame ourselves (Heck, we do that even the reason isn't a
good one.)


If anybody could offer their wisdom I'd really appreciate it...it will
also help once I get a hold of our roofer...

Thanks in advance!
Melanie


If you haven't had ice dams you have a roof leak

There should be NO insulation in the overhanging area. I think what
happened is that water made it's way under the edge of the shingles into
the eaves area, and then ran down towards the house.

This is just ****ty work, plain & simple. Did you take any pictures
during the work? I think they forget the edge flashing.

To fix this, they will need to open up the overhang in a few spots to
check for damage (there's a chance this could have gone into the walls).

It shouldn't take much to fix if they forgot JUST the flashing, but
still, they missed something, and it just doesn't work.

You won't have much problems after the last of the snow is gone off the
roof, but this needs to be fixed soon.

Chili Finger


Melanie wrote:
Just had new roof, eavestroughs with flashing installed last spring.
This year we have these wet streaks running down one side of the house
(see pic here http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?i...898931qq3.jpg).

Did they screw up? Prior to having the work done, our original 40+ year
old gutters never did this at any time of the year (rain or snow melt
down)...

Been trying to get a hold of the roofer but wouldn't you know it they
never seem to return our calls! : (

If anybody could offer their wisdom I'd really appreciate it...it will
also help once I get a hold of our roofer...

Thanks in advance!
Melanie

On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 01:07:45 -0400, mm
wrote:


You can probably take a piece of paper or cloth on a stick and touch
it to the eave and see if it comes back wet.

Of course the best time to do this might be while it is raining.

You also have to exclude the possibity that the wind is blowing the
rain under the eaves, or things like that, so you need either to know
it's not blowing that hard, or to change the piece of cloth or paper
towel you are using, and touch places that are not opposite the damp
spots on the wall, and these places should be dry.

Check as many places as you can.

If you get confusing results, then you may have to put a step stool
there and get half your body out of the window and feell with your
hands, drying it periodically, because you'll gather much more
information more quickly with your hands.

And look with your eyes. You may perhaps see droplets beginning at
the crack between the wall and the eave, while the eave 2 inches in
front of that spot is dry.

Or use a tall ladder from the outside. (It looks like the second
floor, but if you set the ladder right and are careful nothing will
slip. Wear shoes with stiff rubber soles. Stiff is more comfortable
on ladders.)

In order to fix my leaking convertible top, I spent over an hour in
the car in the rain in the middle of the night with a flashlight
tracking down exactly where the water was coming from. When I was
done, I had found it, and I eliminated the problem in 20 minutes for
20 cents, and it never reappeared.

Maybe that is good enough. When I started I wanted you to touch the
eave in the middles horizontally of the wet marks, to make sure the
water was coming across the eave. But if you can tell with cloth on a
stick, you may not need to tie your ankle to the door. (STill, better
safe than sorry.)

On Mar 26, 10:56 am, wrote:

Water getting under the shingles and the saturating the plywood
underneath. Getting in the soffit, and then running down the outside
wall. Looks like the flashing wasn't done properly, should have
atleast 18" under the shingles to the edge of the roof to prevent ice
damns. Better have someone have a look at it very quick.

The Ice & Water Shield membrane (or approved equal - would somebody
kindly offer up a generic term so I don't have to keep writing "or
approved equal"? Thanks!) should extend from the edge of the roof up
to about 3' inside the line of the exterior wall. The ice damming
problem is usually due to heat from the house interior. Just dealing
with the roof overhang portion won't solve the problem.

R

"RicodJour" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 26, 10:56 am, wrote:

Water getting under the shingles and the saturating the plywood
underneath. Getting in the soffit, and then running down the outside
wall. Looks like the flashing wasn't done properly, should have
atleast 18" under the shingles to the edge of the roof to prevent ice
damns. Better have someone have a look at it very quick.

The Ice & Water Shield membrane (or approved equal - would somebody
kindly offer up a generic term so I don't have to keep writing "or
approved equal"? Thanks!) should extend from the edge of the roof up
to about 3' inside the line of the exterior wall. The ice damming
problem is usually due to heat from the house interior.

Our code calls it "eaves protection". Has a nice, blandish ring to it.
Dontch think?

On Mar 26, 12:33 pm, "Michael Bulatovich" wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message

The Ice & Water Shield membrane (or approved equal - would somebody
kindly offer up a generic term so I don't have to keep writing "or
approved equal"? Thanks!) should extend from the edge of the roof up
to about 3' inside the line of the exterior wall. The ice damming
problem is usually due to heat from the house interior.

Our code calls it "eaves protection". Has a nice, blandish ring to it.
Dontch think?

If Eve had used protection there would never have been a Cain or
Abel. Screaming babies don't fit into anyone's idea of Paradise. =:O

R

On 26 Mar 2007 09:00:34 -0700, "RicodJour"
wrote:

On Mar 26, 10:56 am, wrote:

Water getting under the shingles and the saturating the plywood
underneath. Getting in the soffit, and then running down the outside
wall. Looks like the flashing wasn't done properly, should have
atleast 18" under the shingles to the edge of the roof to prevent ice
damns. Better have someone have a look at it very quick.

The Ice & Water Shield membrane (or approved equal - would somebody
kindly offer up a generic term so I don't have to keep writing "or
approved equal"? Thanks!) should extend from the edge of the roof up
to about 3' inside the line of the exterior wall. The ice damming
problem is usually due to heat from the house interior. Just dealing
with the roof overhang portion won't solve the problem.

Why do so many here point to this, when I thought the OP only had
gutters changed? A real question.

R

On Mar 26, 1:39 pm, mm wrote:
On 26 Mar 2007 09:00:34 -0700, "RicodJour" wrote:

The Ice & Water Shield membrane (or approved equal - would somebody
kindly offer up a generic term so I don't have to keep writing "or
approved equal"? Thanks!) should extend from the edge of the roof up
to about 3' inside the line of the exterior wall. The ice damming
problem is usually due to heat from the house interior. Just dealing
with the roof overhang portion won't solve the problem.

Why do so many here point to this, when I thought the OP only had
gutters changed? A real question.

I thought the OP's first sentence was clear, and from the picture I
don't think the gutters...sorry...eavestroughs! is responsible for all
of that. Here's what she wrote:

On Mar 25, 11:39 pm, Melanie wrote:
Just had new roof, eavestroughs with flashing installed last spring.
This year we have these wet streaks running down one side of the house
(see pic herehttp://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1898931qq3.jpg).

You may have read it as "roof eavestroughs" - with the comma being a
typo, but in that case the word roof is entirely superfluous as they
can be nowhere else. It would be akin to saying "my bathroom
toilet" (please note, I am aware that the British have loos - toilets
in rooms without baths - but they're on the other side of the pond and
like being difficult anyway, so let's just ignore them, okay?). I
think she simply left out an "and" - roof and eavestroughs.

I guess only the OP knows for sure, but the word "flashing" would
require shingle work on an existing roof to install the flashing
correctly. In any event, there's definitely more messed up than just
the gutters.

R

On 26 Mar 2007 11:01:28 -0700, "RicodJour"
wrote:

On Mar 26, 1:39 pm, mm wrote:
On 26 Mar 2007 09:00:34 -0700, "RicodJour" wrote:

The Ice & Water Shield membrane (or approved equal - would somebody
kindly offer up a generic term so I don't have to keep writing "or
approved equal"? Thanks!) should extend from the edge of the roof up
to about 3' inside the line of the exterior wall. The ice damming
problem is usually due to heat from the house interior. Just dealing
with the roof overhang portion won't solve the problem.

Why do so many here point to this, when I thought the OP only had
gutters changed? A real question.

I thought the OP's first sentence was clear, and from the picture I
don't think the gutters...sorry...eavestroughs! is responsible for all
of that. Here's what she wrote:

On Mar 25, 11:39 pm, Melanie wrote:
Just had new roof, eavestroughs with flashing installed last spring.
This year we have these wet streaks running down one side of the house
(see pic herehttp://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1898931qq3.jpg).

You may have read it as "roof eavestroughs" - with the comma being a
typo, but in that case the word roof is entirely superfluous as they
can be nowhere else. It would be akin to saying "my bathroom
toilet" (please note, I am aware that the British have loos - toilets
in rooms without baths - but they're on the other side of the pond and
like being difficult anyway, so let's just ignore them, okay?). I

Okay.

I did misunderstand. My bad. Thanks.

think she simply left out an "and" - roof and eavestroughs.

I guess only the OP knows for sure, but the word "flashing" would
require shingle work on an existing roof to install the flashing
correctly. In any event, there's definitely more messed up than just
the gutters.

R

Melanie wrote:

Just had new roof, eavestroughs with flashing installed last spring.
This year we have these wet streaks running down one side of the house
(see pic here http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?i...898931qq3.jpg).

Did they screw up? Prior to having the work done, our original 40+ year
old gutters never did this at any time of the year (rain or snow melt
down)...

Been trying to get a hold of the roofer but wouldn't you know it they
never seem to return our calls! : (

If anybody could offer their wisdom I'd really appreciate it...it will
also help once I get a hold of our roofer...

Thanks in advance!
Melanie

Wow...thanks for all the input! I can tell there's a lot of experience
here with these things!

We had new shingles and flashing and eavestroughs done last year..all by
the same outfit.

We insulated the attic in '02 with bats to R50 making sure the vents
were clear (hubby had to clear away some wood chips that were spread up
there partially blocking vents). There's no insulation in the overhang.
Hubby also removed and replaced old soffit vents last summer further
clearing them out to ensure proper ventilation when refitting new ones.
There are plenty of vents on the roof as well that the roofers installed.

We did not have icicles hanging from our eaves this winter/spring as I
saw on other houses in the neighborhood suggesting heat escaping through
attic/roof. NOt sure if these are ice dams?

Nothing vents to the attic. Only bedrooms and bath on second floor and
no exhaust fan even in the upstairs bath. Plumbing vents were not
shingled over either.

We never had this problem until we had roof/eaves re-done last year.
This did not occur either during the rains following roof/eaves
replacement...only with the spring meltdown. And it pretty much is only
happening on the one side of the house.

We're working on getting another gutter person down to evaluate and
estimate costs for replacment (thank you guys for that sound piece of
advice!). Unfortunately these guys left a bit of a sour taste in our
mouths right after the job was done which I won't get into here...hoping
they'll come through and do the decent thing and fix this up!

In the meantime I'm going to get hubby to go up there and inspect things
....check for flashing at least.

Thanks again everybody!!

Melanie

RicodJour wrote:

On Mar 26, 10:56 am, wrote:

Water getting under the shingles and the saturating the plywood
underneath. Getting in the soffit, and then running down the outside
wall. Looks like the flashing wasn't done properly, should have
atleast 18" under the shingles to the edge of the roof to prevent ice
damns. Better have someone have a look at it very quick.


The Ice & Water Shield membrane (or approved equal - would somebody
kindly offer up a generic term so I don't have to keep writing "or
approved equal"? Thanks!) should extend from the edge of the roof up
to about 3' inside the line of the exterior wall. The ice damming
problem is usually due to heat from the house interior. Just dealing
with the roof overhang portion won't solve the problem.

R

Wow...thanks for all the input! I can tell there's a lot of experience
here with these things!

We had new shingles and flashing and eavestroughs done last year..all by
the same outfit.

We insulated the attic in '02 with bats to R50 making sure the vents
were clear (hubby had to clear away some wood chips that were spread up
there partially blocking vents). There's no insulation in the overhang.
Hubby also removed and replaced old soffit vents last summer further
clearing them out to ensure proper ventilation when refitting new ones.
There are plenty of vents on the roof as well that the roofers installed.

We did not have icicles hanging from our eaves this winter/spring as I
saw on other houses in the neighborhood suggesting heat escaping through
attic/roof. NOt sure if these are ice dams?

Nothing vents to the attic. Only bedrooms and bath on second floor and
no exhaust fan even in the upstairs bath. Plumbing vents were not
shingled over either.

We never had this problem until we had roof/eaves re-done last year.
This did not occur either during the rains following roof/eaves
replacement...only with the spring meltdown. And it pretty much is only
happening on the one side of the house.

We're working on getting another gutter person down to evaluate and
estimate costs for replacment (thank you guys for that sound piece of
advice!). Unfortunately these guys left a bit of a sour taste in our
mouths right after the job was done which I won't get into here...hoping
they'll come through and do the decent thing and fix this up!

In the meantime I'm going to get hubby to go up there and inspect things
....check for flashing at least.

Thanks again everybody!!

Melanie

On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 22:39:31 -0500, Melanie
wrote:

Just had new roof, eavestroughs with flashing installed last spring.
This year we have these wet streaks running down one side of the house
(see pic here http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?i...898931qq3.jpg).

Did they screw up? Prior to having the work done, our original 40+ year
old gutters never did this at any time of the year (rain or snow melt
down)...

Been trying to get a hold of the roofer but wouldn't you know it they
never seem to return our calls! : (

If anybody could offer their wisdom I'd really appreciate it...it will
also help once I get a hold of our roofer...

Thanks in advance!
Melanie


Did you have ice dams?

tom @ www.FindMeShelter.com

Just Joshin wrote:

On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 22:39:31 -0500, Melanie
wrote:


Just had new roof, eavestroughs with flashing installed last spring.
This year we have these wet streaks running down one side of the house
(see pic here http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?i...898931qq3.jpg).

Did they screw up? Prior to having the work done, our original 40+ year
old gutters never did this at any time of the year (rain or snow melt
down)...

Been trying to get a hold of the roofer but wouldn't you know it they
never seem to return our calls! : (

If anybody could offer their wisdom I'd really appreciate it...it will
also help once I get a hold of our roofer...

Thanks in advance!
Melanie



Did you have ice dams?

tom @ www.FindMeShelter.com


Not that we could see...there were no icicles hanging off the edges of
the roof if that's what icedams are?...

"Michael Bulatovich" wrote in message
...

"RicodJour" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 26, 10:56 am, wrote:

Water getting under the shingles and the saturating the plywood
underneath. Getting in the soffit, and then running down the outside
wall. Looks like the flashing wasn't done properly, should have
atleast 18" under the shingles to the edge of the roof to prevent ice
damns. Better have someone have a look at it very quick.

The Ice & Water Shield membrane (or approved equal - would somebody
kindly offer up a generic term so I don't have to keep writing "or
approved equal"? Thanks!) should extend from the edge of the roof up
to about 3' inside the line of the exterior wall. The ice damming
problem is usually due to heat from the house interior.

Our code calls it "eaves protection". Has a nice, blandish ring to it.
Dontch think?


just call it roof membrane, i think everyone will know it then

"JS" wrote in message
news:4HVNh.75241$zU1.1406@pd7urf1no...

"Michael Bulatovich" wrote in message
...

"RicodJour" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 26, 10:56 am, wrote:

Water getting under the shingles and the saturating the plywood
underneath. Getting in the soffit, and then running down the outside
wall. Looks like the flashing wasn't done properly, should have
atleast 18" under the shingles to the edge of the roof to prevent ice
damns. Better have someone have a look at it very quick.

The Ice & Water Shield membrane (or approved equal - would somebody
kindly offer up a generic term so I don't have to keep writing "or
approved equal"? Thanks!) should extend from the edge of the roof up
to about 3' inside the line of the exterior wall. The ice damming
problem is usually due to heat from the house interior.

Our code calls it "eaves protection". Has a nice, blandish ring to it.
Dontch think?


just call it roof membrane, i think everyone will know it then

That phrase can also describe the membrane in a low slope roof, so I'd stay
clear of that one.
--


MichaelB
www.michaelbulatovich.ca

"mm" wrote in message
...
On 26 Mar 2007 11:01:28 -0700, "RicodJour"
wrote:

On Mar 26, 1:39 pm, mm wrote:
On 26 Mar 2007 09:00:34 -0700, "RicodJour" wrote:

The Ice & Water Shield membrane (or approved equal - would somebody
kindly offer up a generic term so I don't have to keep writing "or
approved equal"? Thanks!) should extend from the edge of the roof up
to about 3' inside the line of the exterior wall. The ice damming
problem is usually due to heat from the house interior. Just dealing
with the roof overhang portion won't solve the problem.

Why do so many here point to this, when I thought the OP only had
gutters changed? A real question.

I thought the OP's first sentence was clear, and from the picture I
don't think the gutters...sorry...eavestroughs! is responsible for all
of that. Here's what she wrote:

On Mar 25, 11:39 pm, Melanie wrote:
Just had new roof, eavestroughs with flashing installed last spring.
This year we have these wet streaks running down one side of the house
(see pic herehttp://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1898931qq3.jpg).

You may have read it as "roof eavestroughs" - with the comma being a
typo, but in that case the word roof is entirely superfluous as they
can be nowhere else. It would be akin to saying "my bathroom
toilet" (please note, I am aware that the British have loos - toilets
in rooms without baths - but they're on the other side of the pond and
like being difficult anyway, so let's just ignore them, okay?). I

Okay.

I did misunderstand. My bad. Thanks.

It's also because of the pattern of the moisture. The OP hasn't said there's
water leaking in everywhere in the house,
so it seems to be coming from under the shingles just over the outside
wall....right where ice-dams would form. The melting dams then soak the
outside face of the wall otherwise protected under the eaves.

--


MichaelB
www.michaelbulatovich.ca

Two ways to fix this. First (and best) is to remove the shingles up to a
point three ft. from the outside wall. Then overlay with ice shield
(self-adhesive roofing paper designed for this), or two layers of roofing
felt, glued together. Make certain that the existing roof paper is placed
over the ice shield protection (direct of water flow.) Then re-shingle
eaves. Second way is to install ice melting coils at the eaves and down the
downspouts. This runs up the electric bill but will melt any snow and ice at
the eaves and eliminates the problem. In any case it's important to fix this
as it will deteriorate the structure and cost more in the long run.

"RicodJour" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 26, 10:56 am, wrote:

Water getting under the shingles and the saturating the plywood
underneath. Getting in the soffit, and then running down the outside
wall. Looks like the flashing wasn't done properly, should have
atleast 18" under the shingles to the edge of the roof to prevent ice
damns. Better have someone have a look at it very quick.

On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 07:46:35 -0500, "S. Cargo"
wrote:

Melanie wrote:

Just had new roof, eavestroughs with flashing installed last spring.
This year we have these wet streaks running down one side of the house
(see pic here http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?i...898931qq3.jpg).

Did they screw up? Prior to having the work done, our original 40+ year
old gutters never did this at any time of the year (rain or snow melt
down)...

Like Peter D says, most houses in Winnipeg developed large ice dams
around the troughs this year. They were larger than normal.

We had some freaky weather in January where we had two weeks of daily
snow with the odd day above freezing mixed in. This caused the snow
to melt, fill up the evestroughs, then freeze again. The snow kept
building up and freezing causing a layer of ice that was several inches
higher than the troughs.

When the spring melt came, this layer of built up ice acted as a dam
and water pooled on the roof near the eves. Since it couldn't go down
the eves, it leaked behind them. I'm pretty sure that's what you are
seeing.

If it's just running down the outside of our wall, you're lucky.
Many people had the water back up through the shingles and leak in
the attic.


*Raises hand*


"Nothing matters but the weekend, from a Tuesday point of view."

Michael Bulatovich wrote:
"mm" wrote in message
...

On 26 Mar 2007 11:01:28 -0700, "RicodJour"
wrote:


On Mar 26, 1:39 pm, mm wrote:

On 26 Mar 2007 09:00:34 -0700, "RicodJour" wrote:


The Ice & Water Shield membrane (or approved equal - would somebody
kindly offer up a generic term so I don't have to keep writing "or
approved equal"? Thanks!) should extend from the edge of the roof up
to about 3' inside the line of the exterior wall. The ice damming
problem is usually due to heat from the house interior. Just dealing
with the roof overhang portion won't solve the problem.

Why do so many here point to this, when I thought the OP only had
gutters changed? A real question.

I thought the OP's first sentence was clear, and from the picture I
don't think the gutters...sorry...eavestroughs! is responsible for all
of that. Here's what she wrote:

On Mar 25, 11:39 pm, Melanie wrote:

Just had new roof, eavestroughs with flashing installed last spring.
This year we have these wet streaks running down one side of the house
(see pic herehttp://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1898931qq3.jpg).

You may have read it as "roof eavestroughs" - with the comma being a
typo, but in that case the word roof is entirely superfluous as they
can be nowhere else. It would be akin to saying "my bathroom
toilet" (please note, I am aware that the British have loos - toilets
in rooms without baths - but they're on the other side of the pond and
like being difficult anyway, so let's just ignore them, okay?). I

Okay.

I did misunderstand. My bad. Thanks.


It's also because of the pattern of the moisture. The OP hasn't said there's
water leaking in everywhere in the house,
so it seems to be coming from under the shingles just over the outside
wall....right where ice-dams would form. The melting dams then soak the
outside face of the wall otherwise protected under the eaves.



There is nothing to say that the ice dam would show only in the outer
faces of a wall. It depends on weather conditions, the extent of the
defects in the envelope itself, pitch, and other details, as to how far
up the roof the ice dam will extend and then at what point it will begin
to leak to the interior.

This could be an extreme stretch but in the image there is also
streaking on the soffit which could mean problems other than ice dam
like no, or insufficient drip edge, gutter tucked under the drip, water
clinging to the fasica/soffit, and so on. There could be water getting
behind the fasicia and then on top of the soffit, flowing back and
exiting at the exterior wall/soffit joint (first leak path). This would
make sense if there was no ice and water shield stripped from the roof
(likely not) and the problem never occurred in the past. It would mean
its a newly introduced problem new to the roof. If there were no ice
barrier there before, and no problem, a new problem has been introduced.
If there were no changes beneath the roof or inside it is likely not the
omission of icebarrier though it may have mitigated the new problem
(doubtfull).

A home that has never suffered ice dams, and upon installation of a new
roof with no other changes, now leaks, is likely not experiencing ice
dams as it would have experienced them before.

It seems odd to me that this quantity of water would not also be showing
itself on the interior if it were an ice dam. With the properties of
stucco it seems odd for those streaks to be 10+ feet in length and as
wet as they look and yet there are no mentions of water inside. Of
course there could details mitigating this but...

I would be looking for problems in the fascia/soffit/gutter part of the
equation.

Mark

"M&S" wrote in message
ink.net...
Michael Bulatovich wrote:
"mm" wrote in message
...

On 26 Mar 2007 11:01:28 -0700, "RicodJour"
wrote:


On Mar 26, 1:39 pm, mm wrote:

On 26 Mar 2007 09:00:34 -0700, "RicodJour" wrote:


The Ice & Water Shield membrane (or approved equal - would somebody
kindly offer up a generic term so I don't have to keep writing "or
approved equal"? Thanks!) should extend from the edge of the roof up
to about 3' inside the line of the exterior wall. The ice damming
problem is usually due to heat from the house interior. Just dealing
with the roof overhang portion won't solve the problem.

Why do so many here point to this, when I thought the OP only had
gutters changed? A real question.

I thought the OP's first sentence was clear, and from the picture I
don't think the gutters...sorry...eavestroughs! is responsible for all
of that. Here's what she wrote:

On Mar 25, 11:39 pm, Melanie wrote:

Just had new roof, eavestroughs with flashing installed last spring.
This year we have these wet streaks running down one side of the house
(see pic herehttp://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1898931qq3.jpg).

You may have read it as "roof eavestroughs" - with the comma being a
typo, but in that case the word roof is entirely superfluous as they
can be nowhere else. It would be akin to saying "my bathroom
toilet" (please note, I am aware that the British have loos - toilets
in rooms without baths - but they're on the other side of the pond and
like being difficult anyway, so let's just ignore them, okay?). I

Okay.

I did misunderstand. My bad. Thanks.


It's also because of the pattern of the moisture. The OP hasn't said
there's water leaking in everywhere in the house,
so it seems to be coming from under the shingles just over the outside
wall....right where ice-dams would form. The melting dams then soak the
outside face of the wall otherwise protected under the eaves.



There is nothing to say that the ice dam would show only in the outer
faces of a wall. It depends on weather conditions, the extent of the
defects in the envelope itself, pitch, and other details, as to how far up
the roof the ice dam will extend and then at what point it will begin to
leak to the interior.

This could be an extreme stretch but in the image there is also streaking
on the soffit which could mean problems other than ice dam like no, or
insufficient drip edge, gutter tucked under the drip, water clinging to
the fasica/soffit, and so on. There could be water getting behind the
fasicia and then on top of the soffit, flowing back and exiting at the
exterior wall/soffit joint (first leak path). This would make sense if
there was no ice and water shield stripped from the roof (likely not) and
the problem never occurred in the past. It would mean its a newly
introduced problem new to the roof. If there were no ice barrier there
before, and no problem, a new problem has been introduced. If there were
no changes beneath the roof or inside it is likely not the omission of
icebarrier though it may have mitigated the new problem (doubtfull).

It's possible if the soffit is sloping towards the wall.

A home that has never suffered ice dams, and upon installation of a new
roof with no other changes, now leaks, is likely not experiencing ice dams
as it would have experienced them before.

They also monkeyed with the insulation, IINM....

It seems odd to me that this quantity of water would not also be showing
itself on the interior if it were an ice dam. With the properties of
stucco it seems odd for those streaks to be 10+ feet in length and as wet
as they look and yet there are no mentions of water inside. Of course
there could details mitigating this but...

I would be looking for problems in the fascia/soffit/gutter part of the
equation.

They've got problems for sure. You'd have to be there to tell what it is.
--


MichaelB
www.michaelbulatovich.ca

"Melanie" wrote in message
...
Just had new roof, eavestroughs with flashing installed last spring.
This year we have these wet streaks running down one side of the house
(see pic here http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?i...898931qq3.jpg).

Did they screw up? Prior to having the work done, our original 40+ year
old gutters never did this at any time of the year (rain or snow melt
down)...

Been trying to get a hold of the roofer but wouldn't you know it they
never seem to return our calls! : (

If anybody could offer their wisdom I'd really appreciate it...it will
also help once I get a hold of our roofer...

Thanks in advance!
Melanie


Look for streaks on the soffit. The gutter is below the drip edge, water is getting
between the gutter and the fascia, there's no break on the soffit edge so the water slowly
trickles across the soffit and to the wall.

"Rick" wrote in message
link.net...

"Melanie" wrote in message
...
Just had new roof, eavestroughs with flashing installed last spring.
This year we have these wet streaks running down one side of the house
(see pic here http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?i...898931qq3.jpg).

Did they screw up? Prior to having the work done, our original 40+ year
old gutters never did this at any time of the year (rain or snow melt
down)...

Been trying to get a hold of the roofer but wouldn't you know it they
never seem to return our calls! : (

If anybody could offer their wisdom I'd really appreciate it...it will
also help once I get a hold of our roofer...

Thanks in advance!
Melanie


Look for streaks on the soffit. The gutter is below the drip edge, water is getting
between the gutter and the fascia, there's no break on the soffit edge so the water
slowly
trickles across the soffit and to the wall.

After adjusting the brightness and zooming in, it looks like the fascia and soffit are
separate..second guess is water getting behind the fascia and running across the soffit.

Looks like they did not install "Ice & Water Shield", required by law in
this area, although cheap roofers often skimp on the installation. On my
last roof I had a double row installed on the gutter edge, up both sides of
all valleys and across the peak and down gable end edges. I watched to
ensure they installed it all.

"Melanie" wrote in message
...
Just had new roof, eavestroughs with flashing installed last spring. This
year we have these wet streaks running down one side of the house (see pic
here http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?i...898931qq3.jpg).

Did they screw up? Prior to having the work done, our original 40+ year
old gutters never did this at any time of the year (rain or snow melt
down)...

Been trying to get a hold of the roofer but wouldn't you know it they
never seem to return our calls! : (

If anybody could offer their wisdom I'd really appreciate it...it will
also help once I get a hold of our roofer...

Thanks in advance!
Melanie

I've got the same problem on my new roof.

Mine is caused by the metal drip edge being improperly installed.

The metal drip edge is supposed to cause the water to drip into the
gutter but when it was installed, it was shoved too tight against the
edge and caused the outside edge to be level or slightly elevated.
Thus the rainwater goes over the edge of the drip edge and runs back
down the side of the house instead of dripping into the gutter or off
the house.

The fix is put a slope on the drip edge with a pair of pliars. Very
easy to do on my one story roof but don't ask me to do it for yours.






On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 14:55:07 -0500, Melanie
wrote:

Just Joshin wrote:

On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 22:39:31 -0500, Melanie
wrote:


Just had new roof, eavestroughs with flashing installed last spring.
This year we have these wet streaks running down one side of the house
(see pic here http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?i...898931qq3.jpg).

Did they screw up? Prior to having the work done, our original 40+ year
old gutters never did this at any time of the year (rain or snow melt
down)...

Been trying to get a hold of the roofer but wouldn't you know it they
never seem to return our calls! : (

If anybody could offer their wisdom I'd really appreciate it...it will
also help once I get a hold of our roofer...

Thanks in advance!
Melanie



Did you have ice dams?

tom @ www.FindMeShelter.com


Not that we could see...there were no icicles hanging off the edges of
the roof if that's what icedams are?...

On Mar 26, 1:34 pm, Melanie wrote:
RicodJour wrote:
On Mar 26, 10:56 am, wrote:

Water getting under the shingles and the saturating the plywood
underneath. Getting in the soffit, and then running down the outside
wall. Looks like the flashing wasn't done properly, should have
atleast 18" under the shingles to the edge of the roof to prevent ice
damns. Better have someone have a look at it very quick.

The Ice & Water Shield membrane (or approved equal - would somebody
kindly offer up a generic term so I don't have to keep writing "or
approved equal"? Thanks!) should extend from the edge of the roof up
to about 3' inside the line of the exterior wall. The ice damming
problem is usually due to heat from the house interior. Just dealing
with the roof overhang portion won't solve the problem.

R

Wow...thanks for all the input! I can tell there's a lot of experience
here with these things!

We had new shingles and flashing and eavestroughs done last year..all by
the same outfit.

We insulated the attic in '02 with bats to R50 making sure the vents
were clear (hubby had to clear away some wood chips that were spread up
there partially blocking vents). There's no insulation in the overhang.
Hubby also removed and replaced old soffit vents last summer further
clearing them out to ensure proper ventilation when refitting new ones.
There are plenty of vents on the roof as well that the roofers installed.

We did not have icicles hanging from our eaves this winter/spring as I
saw on other houses in the neighborhood suggesting heat escaping through
attic/roof. NOt sure if these are ice dams?

Nothing vents to the attic. Only bedrooms and bath on second floor and
no exhaust fan even in the upstairs bath. Plumbing vents were not
shingled over either.

We never had this problem until we had roof/eaves re-done last year.
This did not occur either during the rains following roof/eaves
replacement...only with the spring meltdown. And it pretty much is only
happening on the one side of the house.

We're working on getting another gutter person down to evaluate and
estimate costs for replacment (thank you guys for that sound piece of
advice!). Unfortunately these guys left a bit of a sour taste in our
mouths right after the job was done which I won't get into here...hoping
they'll come through and do the decent thing and fix this up!

In the meantime I'm going to get hubby to go up there and inspect things
...check for flashing at least.

Thanks again everybody!!

Melanie



When Hubby insulated in "02", did he leave enough space between the
roof sheathing and the insulation for air to circulate from the eaves
to the inside of the attic? Or did he stuff as much insulation in
between the rafters as he could?
When the gutters where installed, did they use any kind of flashing
from the roof to the gutters?
Lou

Lou wrote:
On Mar 26, 1:34 pm, Melanie wrote:

RicodJour wrote:

On Mar 26, 10:56 am, wrote:

Water getting under the shingles and the saturating the plywood
underneath. Getting in the soffit, and then running down the outside
wall. Looks like the flashing wasn't done properly, should have
atleast 18" under the shingles to the edge of the roof to prevent ice
damns. Better have someone have a look at it very quick.

The Ice & Water Shield membrane (or approved equal - would somebody
kindly offer up a generic term so I don't have to keep writing "or
approved equal"? Thanks!) should extend from the edge of the roof up
to about 3' inside the line of the exterior wall. The ice damming
problem is usually due to heat from the house interior. Just dealing
with the roof overhang portion won't solve the problem.

R

Wow...thanks for all the input! I can tell there's a lot of experience
here with these things!

We had new shingles and flashing and eavestroughs done last year..all by
the same outfit.

We insulated the attic in '02 with bats to R50 making sure the vents
were clear (hubby had to clear away some wood chips that were spread up
there partially blocking vents). There's no insulation in the overhang.
Hubby also removed and replaced old soffit vents last summer further
clearing them out to ensure proper ventilation when refitting new ones.
There are plenty of vents on the roof as well that the roofers installed.

We did not have icicles hanging from our eaves this winter/spring as I
saw on other houses in the neighborhood suggesting heat escaping through
attic/roof. NOt sure if these are ice dams?

Nothing vents to the attic. Only bedrooms and bath on second floor and
no exhaust fan even in the upstairs bath. Plumbing vents were not
shingled over either.

We never had this problem until we had roof/eaves re-done last year.
This did not occur either during the rains following roof/eaves
replacement...only with the spring meltdown. And it pretty much is only
happening on the one side of the house.

We're working on getting another gutter person down to evaluate and
estimate costs for replacment (thank you guys for that sound piece of
advice!). Unfortunately these guys left a bit of a sour taste in our
mouths right after the job was done which I won't get into here...hoping
they'll come through and do the decent thing and fix this up!

In the meantime I'm going to get hubby to go up there and inspect things
...check for flashing at least.

Thanks again everybody!!

Melanie




When Hubby insulated in "02", did he leave enough space between the
roof sheathing and the insulation for air to circulate from the eaves
to the inside of the attic? Or did he stuff as much insulation in
between the rafters as he could?
When the gutters where installed, did they use any kind of flashing
from the roof to the gutters?
Lou

Yes, lots of space in our attic...probably another 5' to the roof from
the insulation I'm guessing...

They billed us for flashing so we're assuming they did...

"Melanie" wrote in message
...
Lou wrote:
On Mar 26, 1:34 pm, Melanie wrote:

RicodJour wrote:

On Mar 26, 10:56 am, wrote:

Water getting under the shingles and the saturating the plywood
underneath. Getting in the soffit, and then running down the outside
wall. Looks like the flashing wasn't done properly, should have
atleast 18" under the shingles to the edge of the roof to prevent ice
damns. Better have someone have a look at it very quick.

The Ice & Water Shield membrane (or approved equal - would somebody
kindly offer up a generic term so I don't have to keep writing "or
approved equal"? Thanks!) should extend from the edge of the roof up
to about 3' inside the line of the exterior wall. The ice damming
problem is usually due to heat from the house interior. Just dealing
with the roof overhang portion won't solve the problem.

R

Wow...thanks for all the input! I can tell there's a lot of experience
here with these things!

We had new shingles and flashing and eavestroughs done last year..all by
the same outfit.

We insulated the attic in '02 with bats to R50 making sure the vents
were clear (hubby had to clear away some wood chips that were spread up
there partially blocking vents). There's no insulation in the overhang.
Hubby also removed and replaced old soffit vents last summer further
clearing them out to ensure proper ventilation when refitting new ones.
There are plenty of vents on the roof as well that the roofers
installed.

We did not have icicles hanging from our eaves this winter/spring as I
saw on other houses in the neighborhood suggesting heat escaping through
attic/roof. NOt sure if these are ice dams?

Nothing vents to the attic. Only bedrooms and bath on second floor and
no exhaust fan even in the upstairs bath. Plumbing vents were not
shingled over either.

We never had this problem until we had roof/eaves re-done last year.
This did not occur either during the rains following roof/eaves
replacement...only with the spring meltdown. And it pretty much is only
happening on the one side of the house.

We're working on getting another gutter person down to evaluate and
estimate costs for replacment (thank you guys for that sound piece of
advice!). Unfortunately these guys left a bit of a sour taste in our
mouths right after the job was done which I won't get into here...hoping
they'll come through and do the decent thing and fix this up!

In the meantime I'm going to get hubby to go up there and inspect things
...check for flashing at least.

Thanks again everybody!!

Melanie




When Hubby insulated in "02", did he leave enough space between the
roof sheathing and the insulation for air to circulate from the eaves
to the inside of the attic? Or did he stuff as much insulation in
between the rafters as he could?
When the gutters where installed, did they use any kind of flashing
from the roof to the gutters?
Lou

Yes, lots of space in our attic...probably another 5' to the roof from the
insulation I'm guessing...

They billed us for flashing so we're assuming they did...

There's flashing, complete and proper, and then there's flashing, partial
and/or improper. An invoice is unlikely to tell you which the did.
--


MichaelB
www.michaelbulatovich.ca