HeyBub spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

It is what it is. I have two TV's, a cordless phone and a couple of
other things - all saved from the waste stream.

Did you get all that from Freecycle?

In my neighborhood, we have "heavy trash" pickup once a month. I call it
"foraging night." In addition to a shop-vac, a recliner, and other goodies,
my prize is a WW2 jerry can. It's a military five-gallon gas can and is in
perfect shape. What makes this one so neat is the stencil on the bottom:

09-44 IIIArmy

Well, I was asking about freecycle.org. But since you mentioned it,
FreeStuffAtTheCurb.yourtown.org is actually, to me, a better method of
exchange than freecycle. At least there's always plenty of stuff to
choose from, and no stupid "moderators" to deal with.


--
Just as McDonald's is where you go when you're hungry but don't really
care about the quality of your food, Wikipedia is where you go when
you're curious but don't really care about the quality of your knowledge.

- Matthew White's WikiWatch (http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/wikiwoo.htm)

Goedjn spake thus:

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 02:58:39 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:

"Beloved Leader" wrote in message

The woman who supervises the dump takes a dim view of this personal
recycling. She yells at me when she sees me in there, so I've had to
stop helping myself to the swag. It's a shame, too, as there is a
mountain of decent stuff that ought to be free for the taking.

There are some silly laws that say once something is in the dump, it must
stay there. Our town used to have an area where you could put unwanted
stuff for others to take, but no more.

I suspect that this is a regulation, not a law.
And it's probably because the people running the
dump are absolutely convinced that some ****head
is going to haul a gas-powered appliance out of the
dump, cut their finger, have the appliance blow
up, (explaining why it was in the dump in the
first place) and then sue them.

What you need to do is set up a non-profit junkyard.

Like Urban Ore, in Berkeley, CA, which, while not exactly a "junkyard",
is a store with items that would otherwise be in the dump. There are
many places like it sprouting up all over the country, and, I'm sure,
the world. I've gotten all kinds of good stuff there.

Interestingly, UO started as an operation *at the dump* way back in the
good old days, where people would retrieve potentially useful items
before they were bulldozed under, lay them on tables, and you could go
and take them for free. I heard that this system lasted a couple of
years before it was shut down by the "sanitary landfill" authorities.


--
Just as McDonald's is where you go when you're hungry but don't really
care about the quality of your food, Wikipedia is where you go when
you're curious but don't really care about the quality of your knowledge.

- Matthew White's WikiWatch (http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/wikiwoo.htm)

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
.com...
Arfa Daily spake thus:

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
.com...

It's not so much a matter of the lead "escaping" (I'm guessing you're
visualizing it going off into the air somehow) as leaching into water in
a landfill, where it can form all kinds of lead-containing compounds that
can come back to poison us. So yes, it's a real problem, not just
something that some environmental bureaucrat dreamed up.

That's a matter of opinion ... There are many more much more serious
sources of environmental pollutants that represent a far greater risk to
health than lead in electronic waste.

Well, it's all relative, isn't it? My point was that lead pollution from
discarded electronics is a serious problem. If you live here in West
Oakland, then you're going to be more concerned about getting asthma from
all the trucks going in and out of the Port of Oakland.


You are correct that it is all relative, but unfortunately, the responses
are not relative pro rata, which was my point. No one would disagree that if
you get lead into your body in sufficient quantity, it's not gonna do you a
lot of good. The point is that it is actually quite difficult to get lead
into your body in sufficient quantity to do damage. Lead in gasoline was a
good way. Lead in solder or CRT glass faceplates, is not. Tin / lead solder
is a stable substance. No matter how much you run water over solder, the
lead ain't gonna leach out of it in sufficient concentration to be a
problem. Even if you factor in acid rain - and there's a lot less of that
now that there are laws against noxious airborne waste discharges of nasty
stuff like sulphur dioxide - you still have a hard job washing lead out of
solder into the water table.

Europe is renowned for having committes and workgroups and think-tanks who
come up with hysterical reactions to non-problems. Lead in solder is a good
example. Don't get me wrong. I am not against recycling per se, but for the
right reasons. Whilst on the surface, any actions that genuinely contribute
to " saving the planet " are laudable, and indeed desirable, you also have
to look at the other side of the coin which is often forgotten, and that is
the energy budget to carry out the recycling.

By the time you have collected your goods, sorted them in a heated and
well-lit worker-friendly warehouse that you had to custom build, dismantled
them, recovered any reusable materials, repurified them, remanufactured
them, and finally disposed of whatever is left, you may well have used more
energy, and contributed more to pollution, than if you had not bothered.
Just looking at lead free solder. I wonder how much additional energy is now
being used worldwide, to heat all of those solder baths up another 40
degrees, heat up all those rework stations another 40 degrees, heat up all
those millions of hand soldering irons another 40 degrees ? How much
additional transport energy to get goods suffering from lead-free bad joints
back to a repair centre, and then back to the customer ? Quite a lot I would
wager, and certainly more than a few wind turbines can make up ...

Arfa

aspasia wrote:

maybe you're interested? For money, not love.

Aspasia

Thanks, but I already have three Teacs. I paid $1 for the first one, at
a church rummage sale, in 1992. No one could make it work. It was
missing the shorting plug in the back where the hardwired remote
control plugged in. I added a lead shorting the two appropriate pins,
and it worked flawlessly.

The next Teac was left out for the trash. I saw it on one of my
after-dinner walks. I picked it up, intending to carry it a mile back
home. I had to stop a few times on the way to catch my breath. Do you
know that a 7" three-motor Teac weighs 55 pounds?

Goedjn wrote:

What you need to do is set up a non-profit junkyard.

I already have one. I call it "home."

David Nebenzahl wrote:

Well, I was asking about freecycle.org. But since you mentioned it,
FreeStuffAtTheCurb.yourtown.org is actually, to me, a better method of
exchange than freecycle. At least there's always plenty of stuff to
choose from, and no stupid "moderators" to deal with.

I'm a member of that group too. I used to put a lot of stuff on
Freecycle, but I found it much easier just to put things out at the end
of the sidewalk with a sign on it, "FREE - GRATIS." That way, people
who don't own computers have a crack at having my old stuff. It
disappears in broad daylight; it disappears after dark. All I care
about is that it disappears.

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 02:10:41 -0400, mm
wrote:

[...]

I once told the story of drivign down 2nd Avenue in NYC, somewhere in
the 20's and seeing a big (though only 5 or 6 foot high dumpster full
of books.

There were about 6 guys inside gathering books, plus I joined them of
course. All hardback, on every subject. There were 3 kinds of
people, those who would get in for a while, those who would just walk
by, and those who would stand outside once in a while pointing to a
book and asking someone to get it for them. How they could see the
title on a hardback book with no dust cover, I don't know.

I got about 20 or 25 books the first day, and I went back 2 out of the
next 4 days. The level of books kept getting lower. There must have
been 20,000 to start, and maybe 10,000 when I stopped going. But they
were probably adding more books every day also. (I had to come from
Brooklyn.) The weather was beautiful every day. New Yorkers are used
to finding good stuff in the trash,

AMAZED at what I find on the curbs when I visit family in NYC! Always
want to take stuff home to CA, but not much room in the overhead bins
for filing cabinets, etc. g

because most apartments are small
and even in the 70's people couldnt even keep a broken 12 inch tv
waiting for a time to fix it. No room.

I got about 35 books in total.

And you probably READ them! More power to you.

Just to mention: If one wanted to take the time & trouble, one could
collect and donate to "minority/disadvantaged" public (and perhaps
parochial?) schools that have tiny budgets than the Beverly Hills-type
public schools with their higher property tax base.

I've done that; called schools and arranged to take them boxes of
books and magazines. Eager, alert kids* can mine these donations for
information that is not in their canned textbooks. And
overworked/underpaid teachers can use these materials for lesson
plans, clip art, etc.

* Yes, there ARE some!

Closing anecdote: Years ago I was on (camera) safari in Kenya.
We'd stop at these villages - basically wide places in the road --
and visit the schools. Pathetic facilities; almost no basic supplies
& teaching materials. I just boil, all these years later, thinking of
how materials -- from paper to computers to AV equipment --
are disrespected and WASTED!

Grrr...people should see how the other 1/2 -- or rather 7/8 -- lives.

Aspasia

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 11:04:00 -0400, Goedjn wrote:

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 06:18:22 -0400, JW wrote:

On 17 Oct 2006 06:36:10 -0700 wrote in Message id:
s.com:

I see no reason why the plastic and occasional metal casings can't be
recycled. The rest can go into an incinerator.

Somehow, the thought of incinerating lead does not make me comfortable.
Not to mention the toxic gases from the electronic bits.

There isn't much in the universe that couldn't be recycled
if you could figure out a convenient way to separate it
from other bits.

Quite right.

Actually,WE are recycled from star material. The original "bits" from
the Big Bang are still around, whether as matter or energy (or dark
energy E=MC2.). Kopf hoch!

Aspasia

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 00:40:57 GMT, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

[...]
You are correct that it is all relative, but unfortunately, the responses
are not relative pro rata, which was my point. No one would disagree that if
you get lead into your body in sufficient quantity, it's not gonna do you a
lot of good. The point is that it is actually quite difficult to get lead
into your body in sufficient quantity to do damage. Lead in gasoline was a
good way. Lead in solder or CRT glass faceplates, is not. Tin / lead solder
is a stable substance. No matter how much you run water over solder, the
lead ain't gonna leach out of it in sufficient concentration to be a
problem. Even if you factor in acid rain - and there's a lot less of that
now that there are laws against noxious airborne waste discharges of nasty
stuff like sulphur dioxide - you still have a hard job washing lead out of
solder into the water table.

[...]

Tell that to the Romans, whose much-lauded plumbing systems-- a marvel
of the ancient world -- were made with lead pipes, which many
historians have indicted as one of the reasons for the Decline and
Fall (crazy emperors, etc.)

Aspasia

aspasia wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 00:40:57 GMT, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

[...]
You are correct that it is all relative, but unfortunately, the responses
are not relative pro rata, which was my point. No one would disagree that
if
you get lead into your body in sufficient quantity, it's not gonna do you
a
lot of good. The point is that it is actually quite difficult to get lead
into your body in sufficient quantity to do damage. Lead in gasoline was a
good way. Lead in solder or CRT glass faceplates, is not. Tin / lead
solder
is a stable substance. No matter how much you run water over solder, the
lead ain't gonna leach out of it in sufficient concentration to be a
problem. Even if you factor in acid rain - and there's a lot less of that
now that there are laws against noxious airborne waste discharges of nasty
stuff like sulphur dioxide - you still have a hard job washing lead out of
solder into the water table.

[...]

Tell that to the Romans, whose much-lauded plumbing systems-- a marvel
of the ancient world -- were made with lead pipes, which many
historians have indicted as one of the reasons for the Decline and
Fall (crazy emperors, etc.)

Aspasia

But you see this is just the sort of unsubstantiated hearsay that
perpetuates these myths, and gets the eco-crazies going in the first place.
" Which many historians have indicted etc ". These people are just that -
historians with an idea, not scientists with facts. All of the water in the
UK was distributed by lead pipes up until a few years ago. In some rural
areas, and certainly within many houses, it still is. My generation, and
certainly up to mine, weren't crazy. Judging by what I see of kids now,
including my own, we had a far higher level of inherent intelligence. The
current craziness of the society here, could be said to have commenced with
the introduction of plastic water pipes, so perhaps we should jump right on
the bandwagon here, and start making all sorts of unsubstantiated claims
about brain-destroying substances from oily plastics such as polythene,
getting into the water supply. And just maybe, I've got something there,
with all the current stuff about short term memory loss that everyone claims
to be suffering from - even to the point where Nintendo or whoever it is,
have brought out a memory exercising game for busy execs on the move ... !!

As far as lead in the water from lead pipes goes, again, in general, this is
nonsense. I sincerely hope that for the most part, the water treatment
company supply me with water that is largely pure and neutral. This will not
cause the lead to break down and wash out in any quantity that is a problem.
If there is anything else in the water in substantial quantity, it is likely
to be some flouride compound, added by the water company, and thus
representing *definite* proven, and government-sponsored pollution of the
water supply with a harmful substance ( no one is really sure what the real
long-term effects of poisoning people in this way are ), or calcium
compounds which were in the water in the first place. As we all know, these
rapidly precipitate out of the water, and coat the insides of the pipes as
limescale, be them copper or lead. Once this has occured, there can no
longer be even any perceived threat, let alone a real one, from the lead
that the pipe is fundamentally made from.

Arfa

aspasia wrote:

Tell that to the Romans, whose much-lauded plumbing systems-- a marvel
of the ancient world -- were made with lead pipes, which many
historians have indicted as one of the reasons for the Decline and
Fall (crazy emperors, etc.)

Aspasia


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_acetate


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

aspasia wrote:

Closing anecdote: Years ago I was on (camera) safari in Kenya.
We'd stop at these villages - basically wide places in the road --
and visit the schools. Pathetic facilities; almost no basic supplies
& teaching materials. I just boil, all these years later, thinking of
how materials -- from paper to computers to AV equipment --
are disrespected and WASTED!

Grrr...people should see how the other 1/2 -- or rather 7/8 -- lives.

Aspasia

There were several overhead projectors thrown in the dumpster behind a
branch of my city's public library last week. No one in the school or
library system has any use for them. I assume that they made no effort
whatsoever to find them a good home. I doubt that they even thought of
offering them on Freecycle. If they had, though, it's possible that
whoever took them would turn around and place them on eBay.

There were several overhead projectors thrown in the dumpster behind a
branch of my city's public library last week. No one in the school or
library system has any use for them. I assume that they made no effort
whatsoever to find them a good home. I doubt that they even thought of
offering them on Freecycle. If they had, though, it's possible that
whoever took them would turn around and place them on eBay.

Apparently, some people would see that end result as a bad
thing. For myself, I can't quite figure out why.

aspasia wrote in message
...

Tell that to the Romans, whose much-lauded plumbing systems-- a marvel
of the ancient world -- were made with lead pipes, which many
historians have indicted as one of the reasons for the Decline and
Fall (crazy emperors, etc.)

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/...poisoning.html

Lead Poisoning and Rome

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 15:41:58 GMT, "Homer J Simpson"
wrote:


aspasia wrote in message
m...

Tell that to the Romans, whose much-lauded plumbing systems-- a marvel
of the ancient world -- were made with lead pipes, which many
historians have indicted as one of the reasons for the Decline and
Fall (crazy emperors, etc.)

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/...poisoning.html

Lead Poisoning and Rome

Gee, thanks -- I guess - for filling up the little free time I have!
Great article.

That Encyclopedia Romana looks so fascinating, I want to follow each
link!


Aspasia

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:47:46 GMT, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

aspasia wrote:

Tell that to the Romans, whose much-lauded plumbing systems-- a marvel
of the ancient world -- were made with lead pipes, which many
historians have indicted as one of the reasons for the Decline and
Fall (crazy emperors, etc.)

Aspasia


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_acetate

Thanks also for this link.

"Beloved Leader" wrote in message
ps.com...

Goedjn wrote:

What you need to do is set up a non-profit junkyard.

I already have one. I call it "home."

Chuckle. I resemble that remark, or at least my house does. It runs in my
family- when my grandpa passed, it took us a month to empty the basement.

aem sends...

aspasia wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:47:46 GMT, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

aspasia wrote:

Tell that to the Romans, whose much-lauded plumbing systems-- a marvel
of the ancient world -- were made with lead pipes, which many
historians have indicted as one of the reasons for the Decline and
Fall (crazy emperors, etc.)

Aspasia


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_acetate

Thanks also for this link.

That's a fine story, but it refers to a lead compound, deliberately
introduced to a foodstuff that the Romans were consuming, not to lead pipes
dissolving as a result of drinking water passing through them ...

Arfa

"Homer J Simpson" wrote in message
news:a1NZg.20281$P7.17560@edtnps90...

aspasia wrote in message
...

Tell that to the Romans, whose much-lauded plumbing systems-- a marvel
of the ancient world -- were made with lead pipes, which many
historians have indicted as one of the reasons for the Decline and
Fall (crazy emperors, etc.)

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/...poisoning.html

Lead Poisoning and Rome


This is a better reasoned piece ...

Arfa

On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 01:08:32 GMT, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:


aspasia wrote in message
m...
On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:47:46 GMT, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

aspasia wrote:

Tell that to the Romans, whose much-lauded plumbing systems-- a marvel
of the ancient world -- were made with lead pipes, which many
historians have indicted as one of the reasons for the Decline and
Fall (crazy emperors, etc.)

Aspasia


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_acetate

Thanks also for this link.

That's a fine story, but it refers to a lead compound, deliberately
introduced to a foodstuff that the Romans were consuming, not to lead pipes
dissolving as a result of drinking water passing through them ...

Arfa

Got to wondering whether -- with all this encyclopediac (pun intended)
talk about whether the pipes were earthen or lead -- hasn't there been
any serious archeology, digging up said pipes for analysis?

aspasia wrote in message
...
On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 01:08:32 GMT, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:


aspasia wrote in message
om...
On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:47:46 GMT, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

aspasia wrote:

Tell that to the Romans, whose much-lauded plumbing systems-- a marvel
of the ancient world -- were made with lead pipes, which many
historians have indicted as one of the reasons for the Decline and
Fall (crazy emperors, etc.)

Aspasia


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_acetate

Thanks also for this link.

That's a fine story, but it refers to a lead compound, deliberately
introduced to a foodstuff that the Romans were consuming, not to lead
pipes
dissolving as a result of drinking water passing through them ...

Arfa

Got to wondering whether -- with all this encyclopediac (pun intended)
talk about whether the pipes were earthen or lead -- hasn't there been
any serious archeology, digging up said pipes for analysis?



That's an interesting point. I'm sure that someone will find some. I'm
almost willing to bet that any such pipes turned up, would be nearly as good
as the day they were buried. I'm going away for a couple of weeks in a day
or two, but I'll flag the thread, and have a look when I get back ...

Arfa

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...

That's an interesting point. I'm sure that someone will find some. I'm
almost willing to bet that any such pipes turned up, would be nearly as
good as the day they were buried. I'm going away for a couple of weeks in
a day or two, but I'll flag the thread, and have a look when I get back
...

I'm sure the locals would have dug them up a thousand years ago. After all,
they stripped the pyramids and Stonehenge.

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 00:40:57 GMT, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

I wonder how much additional energy is now
being used worldwide, to heat all of those solder baths up another 40
degrees, heat up all those rework stations another 40 degrees, heat up all
those millions of hand soldering irons another 40 degrees ?

Lead free solder! Does this mean I have to stock up on leaded solder,
for my own use?

How much
additional transport energy to get goods suffering from lead-free bad joints
back to a repair centre, and then back to the customer ? Quite a lot I would
wager, and certainly more than a few wind turbines can make up ...

Arfa


Remove NOPSAM to email me..

mm wrote:
Baltimore County just started accepting, at one of its solid waste
facilities, tv's, computer monitors, vcr's, and some other electronic
things.

How much recycling is actually done to these things and how important
is it to recycle them?

They always mention lead first as a dangerous substance in tv's and
monitors, but it seems to me, all the lead is in the front panel of
the CRT, and it can't escape to poison the earth. Even if the glass
is broken, only a little surface is exposed, and I'm not sure if even
the lead along that surface can escape.

As to the rest, do they clip out the transistors to recycle the
germanium? How much recycling do they really do? I was told by a
recycler that no one will pay for the stuff, and the counties have to
pay them to come and get it. If it were really recycled, wouldn't it
be worth something?



(The radio didn't say one way or the other if they would now refuse to
pick up such things curbside, as they have been doing.)

Remove NOPSAM to email me..

Turns out, from some sites I saw a few months back and am too lazy to
look up, a lot of the stuff gets sent to third world countries where,
as usual, badly paid and often underage workers get to snarf up lots of
heavy metals and assorted other toxins in order to disassemble the crap
to reclaim the 30 cents of gold plating on the contacts, or some such.
So goeth the world.

"mm" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 00:40:57 GMT, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

I wonder how much additional energy is now
being used worldwide, to heat all of those solder baths up another 40
degrees, heat up all those rework stations another 40 degrees, heat up all
those millions of hand soldering irons another 40 degrees ?

Lead free solder! Does this mean I have to stock up on leaded solder,
for my own use?

Absolutely ! Home use for non-commercial reasons, is not subject to the
diktats of the lead-free solder eco-police ... Commercial items originally
constructed with leaded solder, need not be - and indeed *should* not be -
repaired using lead-free. Go for it fella !!

Arfa

spake thus:

"Beloved Leader" wrote in message
ps.com...

Goedjn wrote:

What you need to do is set up a non-profit junkyard.

I already have one. I call it "home."

Chuckle. I resemble that remark, or at least my house does. It runs in my
family- when my grandpa passed, it took us a month to empty the basement.

I've decided the goal in life should be to have as much crap and
unfinished projects around when you die.


--
Just as McDonald's is where you go when you're hungry but don't really
care about the quality of your food, Wikipedia is where you go when
you're curious but don't really care about the quality of your knowledge.

- Matthew White's WikiWatch (http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/wikiwoo.htm)

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
.com...
spake thus:

"Beloved Leader" wrote in message
ps.com...

Goedjn wrote:

What you need to do is set up a non-profit junkyard.

I already have one. I call it "home."

Chuckle. I resemble that remark, or at least my house does. It runs in my
family- when my grandpa passed, it took us a month to empty the basement.

I've decided the goal in life should be to have as much crap and
unfinished projects around when you die.


Hey David

I wonder what it is that causes us to abandon projects without finishing
them? My shop is full of half done designs and modifications that seemed
like the most important thing in the world when I started them ...

Arfa

Arfa Daily spake thus:

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
.com...

spake thus:

"Beloved Leader" wrote in message
roups.com...

Goedjn wrote:

What you need to do is set up a non-profit junkyard.

I already have one. I call it "home."

Chuckle. I resemble that remark, or at least my house does. It runs in my
family- when my grandpa passed, it took us a month to empty the basement.

I've decided the goal in life should be to have as much crap and
unfinished projects around when you die.

I wonder what it is that causes us to abandon projects without finishing
them? My shop is full of half done designs and modifications that seemed
like the most important thing in the world when I started them ...

Short attention span.


--
Just as McDonald's is where you go when you're hungry but don't really
care about the quality of your food, Wikipedia is where you go when
you're curious but don't really care about the quality of your knowledge.

- Matthew White's WikiWatch (http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/wikiwoo.htm)

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...

I wonder what it is that causes us to abandon projects without finishing
them? My shop is full of half done designs and modifications that seemed
like the most important thing in the world when I started them ...

The realisation that Mt Everest is not an afternoon's walk.

On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 20:52:50 GMT, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:


"mm" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 00:40:57 GMT, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

I wonder how much additional energy is now
being used worldwide, to heat all of those solder baths up another 40
degrees, heat up all those rework stations another 40 degrees, heat up all
those millions of hand soldering irons another 40 degrees ?

Lead free solder! Does this mean I have to stock up on leaded solder,
for my own use?

Absolutely ! Home use for non-commercial reasons, is not subject to the
diktats of the lead-free solder eco-police ...

But that means they should still be selling it a few places, probably
at a higher price, for use at home. Right?

It's hard to know how much is needed to stock up. It's getting hard
to buy double edge razor blades. Not twin edge, but the standard
double edge for the standard safety razor that's been in use for 60 to
100 years. So I just bought over the internet 200 for 20$. It's
especially hard to say how long that will last, because I haven't
shaved for 10 years except my neck, and sometimes not even that. But
if I lose enough weight, I'm going to take off my beard, and who knows
how long I'll live or how many blades I'll need each year?

Commercial items originally
constructed with leaded solder, need not be - and indeed *should* not be -
repaired using lead-free. Go for it fella !!

Arfa



Remove NOPSAM to email me..

"GWB" wrote in message
news
A lot of what's on TV may be "hazardous waste," but I've never had a
problem getting rid of one. I put it on the curb and it disappears
long before the garbage men get to it. G

It's interesting that you are still able to do that, there. Over here now,
the eco-police in the form of the local council, would be liable to
prosecute you. Under laws that were brought in in 1990, but have only
started to be enforced since 1999, they can prosecute you for all sorts of
garbage related 'offences', including leaving trash out on the street on the
wrong collection day. My bin men come round at 7am, so everyone leaves their
garbage out the night before. Strictly speaking, this can now be declared
illegal, and subject to prosecution. A person was recently prosecuted, at a
cost of £6000, for putting out her rubbish a day early, because she was
going on holiday. In today's paper, there is a case of a man who has been
fined £100 plus another £100 in costs, because a piece of junk mail with his
name on it, was found in a bag designated as being for glass and tins only.
The guy was actually taking part in the scheme voluntarily, but as a result,
now has a criminal record, with all the job and travel-related implications
of that. There was not even any CCTV or witness evidence to support the case
and, despite the guy's insistence that he did not put the item in there,
because it was not even his bag, the court declared the case proved. So how
does nonsense like this encourage people to become more eco and recycle
friendly ?

Arfa

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...

In today's paper, there is a case of a man who has been fined £100 plus
another £100 in costs, because a piece of junk mail with his name on it,
was found in a bag designated as being for glass and tins only. The guy
was actually taking part in the scheme voluntarily, but as a result, now
has a criminal record, with all the job and travel-related implications of
that. There was not even any CCTV or witness evidence to support the case
and, despite the guy's insistence that he did not put the item in there,
because it was not even his bag, the court declared the case proved. So
how does nonsense like this encourage people to become more eco and
recycle friendly ?

IMO the UK is becoming ever more like Nazi Germany. Where, in this case is
the actus reus let alone the mens rea? I doubt they could prove that the
junk mail was even delivered to the accused - a lazy postman could have
dumped it there.

"Arfa Daily" hath wroth:

So how
does nonsense like this encourage people to become more eco and recycle
friendly ?
Arfa

It doesn't. Bureaucratic abuse as in your examples is very common
when the value of revenue enhancement exceeds the value of the crime.
The garbage collectors probably had a quota of violations that were
necessary to make their manager look good. Lacking the necessary
violations, planting the junk mail letter would have been expedient.
Aggressive enforcement also helps the legal system perpetuate itself
with a steady case load. Meanwhile, recycling continues as a minor
aspect of the revenue enhancement.

I don't have any brilliant suggestions as to how to solve the problem.
At one time, the bureaucratic overhead raised the cost of recycling
auto batteries to the point where it was cheaper to leave them by the
road side, than to do the manditory paperwork. So, a law was passed
requiring that an old battery be supplied with every new battery
purchase. That actually worked quite well and has resulted in a high
lead recycling rate. Something similar could be done for major
appliances and general recycling. Turn in your old whatever before
you can buy a new one, or pay a huge deposit, fee, tax, or whatever.
In effect, remove the penalty cost of not recycling from the grossly
inefficient legal machinery, and move it to the commercial
establishment at the time of sale. If anything, it might create a
demand for items to recycle.

As for the lead content in CRT's, we've had this discussion before.
Briefly, there's very little lead in todays CRT's.
http://www.eiae.org/chemicals/files/EIA_CRT_5-01.pdf
At this time, all CRT glass manufacturers in the USA are shipping so
called no-lead CRT glass. Unfortunatly, there is still some lead in
these CRT's and some CRT's have a temporary RoHS exemption. I expect
all CRT's to be lead free in about 5-10 years, but also expect the
lead recycling fee to be permanent.

What glass enclosed lead is in the CRT is stored in the safest
possible manner which will take many thousand years to extract. The
standard test for leaching the lead out of glass requires that the CRT
be ground down to dust, and attacked by caustics. The law is being
applied equally to LCD's as well, which have almost no lead in the
glass. The logic is that the recycling workmen cannot be expected to
differentiate between a CRT and an LCD.

In California, we pay a $10 tax at the time of purchase on all CRT and
LCD displays over 4" diagonal.
http://www.ciwmb.ca.gov/Electronics/Act2003/
In effect, we pay the recycling fees in advance. There are no added
charges at the dump, and the tax allegedly goes to pay for the
requisite special handling as anything containing lead is considered
hazardous waste. Actual recycling and lead recovery is done by
competative contract service companies. The proceedure for collecting
the tax is 48 pages thick:
http://www.boetaxes.ca.gov/business/Vol4/Fcp/fcpl.pdf
which mostly deals with penalties imposed on merchants that can't
decode the required collection proceedures. There are also Federal
recycling rules which must be met:
http://www.epa.gov/epaoswer/hazwaste...ectron/crt.htm
http://www.epa.gov/fedrgstr/EPA-WAST...y-28/f6490.htm
Only 108 pages.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 17:42:17 -0500, GWB wrote:

A lot of what's on TV may be "hazardous waste," but I've never had a
problem getting rid of one. I put it on the curb and it disappears
long before the garbage men get to it. G

Even though the people in my n'hood are not rich, I dont' get the
feeling that many know how to fix much.

That's ok. I'm usually the last stop before things can't be repaired
by an amateur. And pros don't want to bother.

Remove NOPSAM to email me..