Ignoramus16532 wrote:
On 19 Jul 2006 20:45:56 -0700, wyredog wrote:
Okay...one more time: The professional DID a diagnosis, then gave me a
quote for a new compressor, dryer, and capacitor.

And one more time, WHAT DID HE SAY WHEN YOU ASKED HIM WHY HE THINKS
THAT STUFF NEEDS TO BE REPLACED.

Thought I answered that...really the only other stuff he said was that
the compressor was pulling 90A and did not kick on so he thought it was
seized.....but then right before he left he was able to get it to kick
on. Can a compressor be shot even though it occationally runs okay? I
thought it would be a go or no go sort of thing.

I do not wish to pretend I know what a multi-meter would be telling me.

That's why it should be used to find out.

I wouldn't know what to put where or what it would be telling me....All
I know is the AC will run through about 4 or 5 cycle of on and off and
then it will throw a breaker...Really that is all the HVAC prof.
said...Then he checked to see if my comp was under warranty and said it
would be a couple days before it came in....I since had a thrid party
(prof) order the comp and have them holding off on installing it until
I at least try a new cap.

As far as additional diagnosis and forming hypothesis..well I just
don't know enough about it to do more than I have already done..based
on what the profs have said they were going to replace.

Now I can just shell out lots of money for a new compressor which
doesn't make much sense to me because as I speak the compressor is
cooling my home...Or I can replace a $40 cap first because the prof.
who did the diagnosis said it would need to be replaced if he came to
do the work anyway. Good God what is so hard for "Ma sees me in my
PJ's" to understand about that!

Or you can systematically approach the issue, collect data and form
hypotheses, which you would then test.

He most likely made a living giving false info to people and ripping
them off becaseu all he seems capable of is redicule to anyone who trys
to tread on his "holy field of expertice"

Quite likely, yes, it is very difficult for honest people to stay
competitive in such businesses.

Capacitors are cheap, really likely worth less than the value of time
that you spent here discussing your question. But this intermittent
situation does not seem like a capacitor problem.

Did you open up your compressor cover, disconnect, etc, did you try
tracing where is electricity with your multimeter etc?

Do you have a schematic of your unit?

Get yourself a multimeter with a clamp ammeter. Try to be systematic,
I do not see evidence of a systematic thought process/investigation yet.

I see some traces of same mentality "let's start replacing stuff" that
we do not like about some paid "servicepersons". I think that your
advantage here could be having time, persistence and a systematic
approach. Try to use this advantage.

I think that the above is worth responding to.

i

i

Ignoramus16532 wrote:
On 19 Jul 2006 19:31:46 -0700, wyredog wrote:
" Professional " wanted to charge me $950 to replace the compressor
(which is under warrranty) and dryer and cap. Schwew...ran the same
stuff by antoher and got a 350 estimate...thought a cap and breaker
were good simple places to start


But what did the professional say, did he give you a coherent
explanation of what he thought was wrong? Did he explain what problems
cause what symptoms?

He may be right, maybe, or maybe he is not, it is good to know
details.

i

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 03:48:14 +0000 (UTC), Ignoramus16532
wrote:

pjm, as much as you sound rather unpleasant, I have a feeling that
you actually may know a thing or two about troubleshooting HVAC
equipment. The key word here is "may".

Mighty ****ing white of you.

What was your first clue ? The 14 years of field experience ?
The 5 statewide Masters licenses ? The fact that I've TAUGHT at som
eof the most respected organizations in the industry ? The fact that
I'm the author of some of the most widely used technical sofrtware in
the industry ? Really - which one turned that dim bulb on for you ?


Is there any chance at all that you could help us appreciate the
wisdom and knowledge of your profession, by actually sharing some of
it here, specifically what kinds of issues could cause observed
problems (intermittent breaker popping at startup).

I've shared all you can handle, and all I care to.


I mean, both great experts as well as ignorant assholes could say
something like "dumbass, you need to talk to professionals". That's an
easy thing to say in all circumstances.

So... How can we know that you are a knowledgeable person in your

Send me money if you want me to owe you something. other
than that, I owe you NOTHING, including 'proofs' you're not entitled
to.


field? Can you share with us what is applicable to his case. I would
then be the first to acknowledge the depths of your expertise. I am
not kidding or posturing.

And I don't give a **** WHAT you are.

Here's one of the most common things that can cause his
symptoms - low on freon. Yes, that ****ing simple. Does he have the
tools required to test it ? No. Does he have the knowledge to know
how to USE those tools ( we ain't talking about a ball peen hammer
here ) ? No.

Low freon = low compressor cooling = compressor overheats =
bearings seize up or drag = high amps = MORE heat = breaker trip.
After a while 'off' it cools down, and runs again until next time.

Now go away, properly ashamed and chastised.


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Is this another freon sniffer or is this just PJ under another
name...Sounds just like him grouchy and useless.

Oscar_Lives wrote:
"Ignoramus16532" wrote in message
...
pjm, as much as you sound rather unpleasant, I have a feeling that
you actually may know a thing or two about troubleshooting HVAC
equipment. The key word here is "may".

Is there any chance at all that you could help us appreciate the
wisdom and knowledge of your profession, by actually sharing some of
it here, specifically what kinds of issues could cause observed
problems (intermittent breaker popping at startup).

I mean, both great experts as well as ignorant assholes could say
something like "dumbass, you need to talk to professionals". That's an
easy thing to say in all circumstances.

So... How can we know that you are a knowledgeable person in your
field? Can you share with us what is applicable to his case. I would
then be the first to acknowledge the depths of your expertise. I am
not kidding or posturing.

He already did, dumb****. PJM is extremely knowlegible about the proper use
of newsgroups, and specifically alt.hvac. You got good advice, now heed it
and take your hacking whining freakshow out of here.

On 19 Jul 2006 21:00:09 -0700, wyredog wrote:

Ignoramus16532 wrote:
On 19 Jul 2006 20:45:56 -0700, wyredog wrote:
Okay...one more time: The professional DID a diagnosis, then gave me a
quote for a new compressor, dryer, and capacitor.

And one more time, WHAT DID HE SAY WHEN YOU ASKED HIM WHY HE THINKS
THAT STUFF NEEDS TO BE REPLACED.

Thought I answered that...really the only other stuff he said was that
the compressor was pulling 90A and did not kick on so he thought it was
seized.....but then right before he left he was able to get it to kick
on. Can a compressor be shot even though it occationally runs okay? I
thought it would be a go or no go sort of thing.

I also think so as far as being "seized" is concerned.

I do not wish to pretend I know what a multi-meter would be telling me.

That's why it should be used to find out.

I wouldn't know what to put where or what it would be telling me...

Then, perhaps, some effort needs to be invested in finding a good
professional.

I mean, yeah, go ahead and replace the caps and see if it helps, if
you insist. But if it does not help, perhaps hiring someone would make
sense if you find someone somewhat honest.

All I know is the AC will run through about 4 or 5 cycle of on and
off and then it will throw a breaker...Really that is all the HVAC
prof. said...Then he checked to see if my comp was under warranty
and said it would be a couple days before it came in....I since had
a thrid party (prof) order the comp and have them holding off on
installing it until I at least try a new cap.

As far as additional diagnosis and forming hypothesis..well I just
don't know enough about it to do more than I have already done..based
on what the profs have said they were going to replace.

does it seize at particular time of day? (like midday) and restart in
the evening?

Maybe one of your caps is bad and if th pressure in the system exceeds
something, the compressor cannot start. And then in the evening, when
the refrigerant cools and pressure drops, that one cap can get the
compressor going?

I mean, there has to be something to explain this intermittency.

i

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 03:37:09 GMT, wrote:
His 'advantage' would be to stop listening to wrong advice
from ignorant guessers like you.

I repeat - a bad cap CAN NOT cause the symptoms he described.
It CAN NOT.

And what can?

i

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 04:07:04 +0000 (UTC), Ignoramus16532
wrote:

On 19 Jul 2006 21:00:09 -0700, wyredog wrote:

Ignoramus16532 wrote:
On 19 Jul 2006 20:45:56 -0700, wyredog wrote:
Okay...one more time: The professional DID a diagnosis, then gave me a
quote for a new compressor, dryer, and capacitor.

And one more time, WHAT DID HE SAY WHEN YOU ASKED HIM WHY HE THINKS
THAT STUFF NEEDS TO BE REPLACED.

Thought I answered that...really the only other stuff he said was that
the compressor was pulling 90A and did not kick on so he thought it was
seized.....but then right before he left he was able to get it to kick
on. Can a compressor be shot even though it occationally runs okay? I
thought it would be a go or no go sort of thing.

I also think so as far as being "seized" is concerned.

I do not wish to pretend I know what a multi-meter would be telling me.

That's why it should be used to find out.

I wouldn't know what to put where or what it would be telling me...

Then, perhaps, some effort needs to be invested in finding a good
professional.

I mean, yeah, go ahead and replace the caps and see if it helps, if
you insist. But if it does not help, perhaps hiring someone would make
sense if you find someone somewhat honest.

All I know is the AC will run through about 4 or 5 cycle of on and
off and then it will throw a breaker...Really that is all the HVAC
prof. said...Then he checked to see if my comp was under warranty
and said it would be a couple days before it came in....I since had
a thrid party (prof) order the comp and have them holding off on
installing it until I at least try a new cap.

As far as additional diagnosis and forming hypothesis..well I just
don't know enough about it to do more than I have already done..based
on what the profs have said they were going to replace.

does it seize at particular time of day? (like midday) and restart in
the evening?

Maybe one of your caps is bad and if th pressure in the system exceeds
something, the compressor cannot start. And then in the evening, when
the refrigerant cools and pressure drops, that one cap can get the
compressor going?

I mean, there has to be something to explain this intermittency.

i

Your stupid-ass wrong guesses sure ain't it.


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 04:21:51 GMT, wrote:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 04:07:04 +0000 (UTC), Ignoramus16532
wrote:
I mean, there has to be something to explain this intermittency.

i

Your stupid-ass wrong guesses sure ain't it.



Well, you do not seem to have better guesses, maybe you can tell us
what the right guess is?

i

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 17:49:43 GMT,
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 17:44:20 GMT, Ignoramus16532
wrote:

On 19 Jul 2006 10:42:57 -0700, rigger wrote:

CJT wrote:
Never_Enough_Tools wrote:

The last time I calls a "professional," he proceeded to rip the wires
off all the terminal blocks and then pronounced I'd need a whole new
unit. When I asked him to instead put it back the way he'd found it so
I could get a second opinion, he refused, got in his truck, and drove
away.


Note to self:
Take photo of connections before allowing work on air conditioner.

and while you are at it, take photos of the professional and his truck

i

While you're at it, bend over and take a picture of your own
ass.

You are living proof that the HVAC industry is a scam business, or has
a serious number of scammers.

If they were honest and cared about their reputations, they would have
by now, hunted you down, given you an R-12 enema and then run you
through a large fan unit, feet first and slowly.

plink

Gunner



"If I'm going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third
hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun while they're
around."

"Democrat. In the dictionary it's right after demobilize and right
before demode` (out of fashion).
-Buddy Jordan 2001

"wyredog" wrote in message
ups.com...
Geez what is it with HVAC does it attract
nothing but the lowest characters that couldn't get into law school?


If I hadda guess, then I'd have to say it's mainly cheap cocksuckers like
you that's the underlying cause.

--

SVL

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...

We'd like to know a few things like

snipped drivel

Speak for yourself, asshole....

--

SVL

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 02:32:24 GMT, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

We'd like to know a few things like the model number. and the tonnage.

Speak for youself, you ****ing dip****.

'WE' want this amateur parts-changing ****-fest taken the hell
out of here.


Beers ?

--

SVL

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 17:44:20 GMT, Ignoramus16532
wrote:

On 19 Jul 2006 10:42:57 -0700, rigger wrote:

CJT wrote:
Never_Enough_Tools wrote:

The last time I calls a "professional," he proceeded to rip the wires
off all the terminal blocks and then pronounced I'd need a whole new
unit. When I asked him to instead put it back the way he'd found it
so
I could get a second opinion, he refused, got in his truck, and drove
away.


Note to self:
Take photo of connections before allowing work on air conditioner.

and while you are at it, take photos of the professional and his truck

i

I guess I've been lucky with my HVAC service co. Always prompt,always
reasonable, always done a good job and always gave me good advice.

Last winter, when my packaged heat pump compressor went down (after 16
years) they gave me a choice of replacement of the compressor or the
entire unit. They strongly advised I replace the unit, about three
times the cost of the compressor replacement. Being naturally frugal
(read cheap) I almost didn't take their advice, but they persisted
with the logical arguments. Boy am I glad I gave in. New higher SEER
unit much more quiet, effective, and power bills much lower. On the
seven months compared about 25% less KWH used per month, and the only
thing I changed in the house is the heat pump. I know that you have to
do a specific degree day comparison to be totally accurate, but I
don't think it would be much different.


Good move, Frank.

Same thing here...it seems to have amounted to an appx 30 reduction in power
usage.

--

SVL

"Ignoramus16532" wrote in message
...
pjm, as much as you sound rather unpleasant, I have a feeling that
you actually may know a thing or two about troubleshooting HVAC
equipment. The key word here is "may".

Is there any chance at all that you could help us appreciate the
wisdom and knowledge of your profession, by actually sharing some of
it here, specifically what kinds of issues could cause observed
problems (intermittent breaker popping at startup).

I mean, both great experts as well as ignorant assholes could say
something like "dumbass, you need to talk to professionals". That's an
easy thing to say in all circumstances.

So... How can we know that you are a knowledgeable person in your
field? Can you share with us what is applicable to his case. I would
then be the first to acknowledge the depths of your expertise. I am
not kidding or posturing.


Igor,

Suggest quit trying to make waves with your excesasive crossposting,
bull****, and what not and try and just mainly lurk in alt havoc for at
least a year or so. ( To everything, turn turn )

For the rest of you, seems fair enough that I should at least let you know
exactly whom it is you're dealing with in the case that you might not
already know:

See:

http://tinyurl.com/rhoyw

--

SVL

When the unit runs it runs great...just doesn't start every
time....Curious...What leads you to suspect the thermostat...it appears
to be functioning normally as does everything else...when it
starts.....start....capacitor...am I really all that "shooting in the
dark?"


Actually yes you are.
In a previous post you said that the tech measured 90 amps on the
compressor, and you have a 30 amp breaker....
Whats wrong with this picture??? throwing parts at it because they are cheap
is bull****... thats what your accusing the folks in the trade of doing, and
then when somebody comes along and says you need an expensive repair, then
you blow them off and continue to screw around with paper clips and bubble
gum. FWIW, $900 for a compressor change is damn cheap..... in fact half the
price of what it is in the real world. A resi compressor that is drawing 90
AMPS is probably toast.... if not, it will be very shortly unless the
problem is corrected.

Maybe you will figure that out once you get over your capacitor fetish.....
and is doesn't matter if you put one in today, and the compressor gets
replace tomorrow... it *STILL* gets a new capacitor and a filter drier so it
hasn't saved you a dime....it actually cost you more money for the capacitor
that you put in.
Heres a news flash for you sport.... the new compressor may or may not even
use the same value of capacitor as the old one.

"wyredog" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi I just joined the group so please forgive any unintended rudeness on
my part.

Oh and don't let my nickname be misinterpreted as my being any sort of
self-proclaimed electrical genius.....It is a spin on our breed of dogs
..Wire hair fox terriers.

My question is this: I am about to replace the dual capacitor on my
heat pump. I have a vague understanding that it contains a charge that
could be lethal or could otherwise knock me on my @ss. What should I
do/not do as I remove the capacitor.....I know to turn the power off to
the outside unit but beyond that welcome any and all honest advice.

Thanks

Wyredog (fox terrier)


Simple...trick your ****ing dog into licking across the terminals.....

Serious though, just short it out with a screwdriver or somesuch...though
it's hard for me to believe anyone is as incredibly stupid as you are
appearing to be here.

--

SVL

wrote:

On 19 Jul 2006 20:02:25 -0700, "wyredog"
wrote:


wrote:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 02:37:15 GMT, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Yes, I do.

No you don't, you clueless freak show.

Hey PJ Ma see me,

Are you looking for the "Disgruntled, out of work, cause I got the
business manners of a Jackass" Group......Cause your opinions aren't
worth a damn to me here

Your probably one of the guys who's already been here and charged me
for pullin in the driveway. Geez what is it with HVAC does it attract
nothing but the lowest characters that couldn't get into law school?

**** off, ****y little home-moaner.

You clueless twit, I was slamming Stormy Mormy, not you.

Just plainly go **** yourself, asshole. Just plainly go ****
youself. And btw - a real good indicator that I haven't been to your
house, aside from the fact that I graduated from running service calls
years ago, and never bothered with little residential **** anyway
except as a favor to people, is that your AC is all ****ed up.

Enjoy your heat wave, mother****er.

--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

I see the problem... You're jealous because we own real homes while your
pathetic ass is still stuck in a cockroach infested rented trailer.

Pete C.

wyredog wrote:

I get the feeling several on this site think I tossed a coin to see
what I would start replacing: Here's some history:

A few days ago I cam home to a silent outside unit (no fan no
compressor nothing). Found that the 30A breaker was thrown. Turned
it
back on and it flipped off after a couple seconds. Later I tried it
again jsut because I was hot hand had nothing else to think about.
This time it worked...the heat pump turned on and ran as if nothing
were wrong.

So I replaced the breaker hoping it was just to weak. Same scenario
with it. The AC will run ..on ...off on...off through several cooling
cycles then one time it will throw the breaker and that's all she
wrote
until I go into the crawl space and turn the breaker on again.

Other relavent factors: The unit is only 3 years old, Arco Air made
by
Carrier. And it has been record heat here since just before this
began......causing the unit to run very frequently

When the unit runs it runs great...just doesn't start every
time....Curious...What leads you to suspect the thermostat...it appears
to be functioning normally as does everything else...when it
starts.....start....capacitor...am I really all that "shooting in the
dark?"

The main problem is that alt.hvac is just a social club for pathetic,
paranoid union types to get their jollies attacking anyone who asks a
question. The fact that their "profession" is heavily infested with the
incompetent, barely competent and outright crooks should be what they're
attacking if they were truly the competent ones, but they're too stupid
to realize that they are their own worst enemy.

Pete C.

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 04:28:11 +0000 (UTC), Ignoramus16532 wrote:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 04:21:51 GMT, wrote:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 04:07:04 +0000 (UTC), Ignoramus16532
wrote:
I mean, there has to be something to explain this intermittency.

i

Your stupid-ass wrong guesses sure ain't it.



Well, you do not seem to have better guesses, maybe you can tell us
what the right guess is?

Igor, don't waste your time with that guy. Seen his type before.

I agree with Dave Hinz. Your posts are not worth reading. I doubt you
know much about yor trade either, probably a just a "part swapper". I am
killfiling you as of right now.

i

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 04:02:00 GMT, wrote:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 03:48:14 +0000 (UTC), Ignoramus16532
wrote:

pjm, as much as you sound rather unpleasant, I have a feeling that
you actually may know a thing or two about troubleshooting HVAC
equipment. The key word here is "may".

Mighty ****ing white of you.

What was your first clue ? The 14 years of field experience ?
The 5 statewide Masters licenses ? The fact that I've TAUGHT at som
eof the most respected organizations in the industry ? The fact that
I'm the author of some of the most widely used technical sofrtware in
the industry ? Really - which one turned that dim bulb on for you ?


Is there any chance at all that you could help us appreciate the
wisdom and knowledge of your profession, by actually sharing some of
it here, specifically what kinds of issues could cause observed
problems (intermittent breaker popping at startup).

I've shared all you can handle, and all I care to.


I mean, both great experts as well as ignorant assholes could say
something like "dumbass, you need to talk to professionals". That's an
easy thing to say in all circumstances.

So... How can we know that you are a knowledgeable person in your

Send me money if you want me to owe you something. other
than that, I owe you NOTHING, including 'proofs' you're not entitled
to.


field? Can you share with us what is applicable to his case. I would
then be the first to acknowledge the depths of your expertise. I am
not kidding or posturing.

And I don't give a **** WHAT you are.

Here's one of the most common things that can cause his
symptoms - low on freon. Yes, that ****ing simple. Does he have the
tools required to test it ? No. Does he have the knowledge to know
how to USE those tools ( we ain't talking about a ball peen hammer
here ) ? No.

Low freon = low compressor cooling = compressor overheats =
bearings seize up or drag = high amps = MORE heat = breaker trip.
After a while 'off' it cools down, and runs again until next time.

Now go away, properly ashamed and chastised.

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 00:38:56 -0500, Noon-Air wrote:
In a previous post you said that the tech measured 90 amps on the
compressor, and you have a 30 amp breaker....
Whats wrong with this picture???

There is nothing wrong with a motor to draw 3x its rated amperate at
startup. That should not last very long and the breaker should not
trip if such startup current is brief. Most breakers are designed to
handle motor loads.

As motors go, 3x running current at startup is relatively mild.

My homemade phase converter's first idler motor draws 120 amps at
startup, it is rated at 10 HP.

i

"Ignoramus10329" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 00:38:56 -0500, Noon-Air wrote:
In a previous post you said that the tech measured 90 amps on the
compressor, and you have a 30 amp breaker....
Whats wrong with this picture???

There is nothing wrong with a motor to draw 3x its rated amperate at
startup. That should not last very long and the breaker should not
trip if such startup current is brief. Most breakers are designed to
handle motor loads.

As motors go, 3x running current at startup is relatively mild.

My homemade phase converter's first idler motor draws 120 amps at
startup, it is rated at 10 HP.

All true.... but thats not what he said.
I'm still waiting on the make/model/serial number of the unit.

Ignoramus10329 wrote in message ...

I agree with Dave Hinz. Your posts are not worth reading. I doubt you
know much about yor trade either, probably a just a "part swapper". I
am
killfiling you as of right now.

i


Good plan. He's obviously one of those wannabe know it all a-hole types.

Cheri

wrote in article
...
On 19 Jul 2006 20:02:25 -0700, "wyredog"
wrote:

and never bothered with little residential **** anyway
except as a favor to people,



And, they all agree that the biggest "favor" you ever performed for them
was leaving.........

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 06:49:25 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

wrote:

On 19 Jul 2006 20:02:25 -0700, "wyredog"
wrote:


wrote:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 02:37:15 GMT, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Yes, I do.

No you don't, you clueless freak show.

Hey PJ Ma see me,

Are you looking for the "Disgruntled, out of work, cause I got the
business manners of a Jackass" Group......Cause your opinions aren't
worth a damn to me here

Your probably one of the guys who's already been here and charged me
for pullin in the driveway. Geez what is it with HVAC does it attract
nothing but the lowest characters that couldn't get into law school?

**** off, ****y little home-moaner.

You clueless twit, I was slamming Stormy Mormy, not you.

Just plainly go **** yourself, asshole. Just plainly go ****
youself. And btw - a real good indicator that I haven't been to your
house, aside from the fact that I graduated from running service calls
years ago, and never bothered with little residential **** anyway
except as a favor to people, is that your AC is all ****ed up.

Enjoy your heat wave, mother****er.

--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

I see the problem... You're jealous because we own real homes while your
pathetic ass is still stuck in a cockroach infested rented trailer.

Pete C.

The problem is you and your mother - you're not supposed to
have sex with her, you know. No matter HOW much she wants it.


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 06:57:29 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

wyredog wrote:

I get the feeling several on this site think I tossed a coin to see
what I would start replacing: Here's some history:

A few days ago I cam home to a silent outside unit (no fan no
compressor nothing). Found that the 30A breaker was thrown. Turned
it
back on and it flipped off after a couple seconds. Later I tried it
again jsut because I was hot hand had nothing else to think about.
This time it worked...the heat pump turned on and ran as if nothing
were wrong.

So I replaced the breaker hoping it was just to weak. Same scenario
with it. The AC will run ..on ...off on...off through several cooling
cycles then one time it will throw the breaker and that's all she
wrote
until I go into the crawl space and turn the breaker on again.

Other relavent factors: The unit is only 3 years old, Arco Air made
by
Carrier. And it has been record heat here since just before this
began......causing the unit to run very frequently

When the unit runs it runs great...just doesn't start every
time....Curious...What leads you to suspect the thermostat...it appears
to be functioning normally as does everything else...when it
starts.....start....capacitor...am I really all that "shooting in the
dark?"

The main problem is that alt.hvac is just a social club for pathetic,
paranoid union types to get their jollies attacking anyone who asks a
question. The fact that their "profession" is heavily infested with the
incompetent, barely competent and outright crooks should be what they're
attacking if they were truly the competent ones, but they're too stupid
to realize that they are their own worst enemy.

Pete C.

At what age did your father stop molesting you ? Or DID he
stop yet ?


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 08:09:31 -0500, "*" wrote:



wrote in article
...
On 19 Jul 2006 20:02:25 -0700, "wyredog"
wrote:

and never bothered with little residential **** anyway
except as a favor to people,



And, they all agree that the biggest "favor" you ever performed for them
was leaving.........


How clever. Come with that one all by yourself, or did you
get help ?


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

wrote in article
...

Mighty ****ing white of you.



Racist Asshole !!!!!!



What was your first clue ? The 14 years of field experience ?
The 5 statewide Masters licenses ? The fact that I've TAUGHT at som
eof the most respected organizations in the industry ? The fact that
I'm the author of some of the most widely used technical sofrtware in
the industry ? Really - which one turned that dim bulb on for you ?


Send me money if you want me to owe you something. other
than that, I owe you NOTHING, including 'proofs' you're not entitled
to.



Given the coast-to-coast heat wave that is currently embracing the USA, and
your boastful claims of superior knowledge and experience, one would expect
you to be straight-out busy keeping up with A/C demands.....with little -
if any - time, energy, or desire to troll around on the 'net.....regardless
of where you live.

If you are REALLY that much of an A/C expert, how in the world do you find
as much time as you do to read all the posts you do, write all the wise-ass
comments each day - given the current weather patterns in the USA?

The A/C and commercial refrigeration guys in MY neck of the woods
(Northeast) are working 16-hour days......

.....yet, YOU - "God's gift to the HVAC industry" - have all sorts of time
to troll the newsgroups.

Kinda' says something about the demand for your "...skills and knowledge".




And I don't give a **** WHAT you are.



Given your continuous requests for oral sex from the male population here,
I STILL think you're just an out-of-work, gay waiter with AIDS who is
trying to find another unsuspecting partner or two.

You're probably trolling MYSPACE in between these posts, looking for a
"clean" 13-to-14-year-old boy.

That.....or simply a bored Junior High-Schooler who would rather spend time
trolling on the computer than go outside and experience life.





I've shared all you can handle, and all I care to.


More like, "I've shared all I am capable of sharing - given the fact that
Mr. Russell's Grade eight shop class hasn't gone past basic electricity,
yet."

Ignoramus10329 wrote in article
...
I agree with Dave Hinz. Your posts are not worth reading. I doubt you
know much about yor trade either, probably a just a "part swapper". I am
killfiling you as of right now.


Just look at the various times he posts throughout the day......

Is there a REAL HVAC guy in the USA who is NOT straight-out busy with the
coast-to-coast heat we are experiencing?

How does Mr. Know-It-All find time to piddle around here if he is THAT good
in HVAC?

He's just a trolling asshole who knows a little bit about how A/C works.

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 08:56:39 -0500, * wrote:


Ignoramus10329 wrote in article
...
I agree with Dave Hinz. Your posts are not worth reading. I doubt you
know much about yor trade either, probably a just a "part swapper". I am
killfiling you as of right now.


Just look at the various times he posts throughout the day......

Is there a REAL HVAC guy in the USA who is NOT straight-out busy with the
coast-to-coast heat we are experiencing?

How does Mr. Know-It-All find time to piddle around here if he is THAT good
in HVAC?
He's just a trolling asshole

I agree with up to here.


who knows a little bit about how A/C works.

And that I disagree with, he has not given us any reason to think so
-- all I heard from him was insults.

i

"wyredog" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi I just joined the group so please forgive any unintended rudeness on
my part.


Hey wyredog,

Just so you know, this ****bag PJ only crawled in here a week or so ago,
this was / is a very useful group of NICE helpful folks.

Ignore ****face and soon enough he will slink back to the homo room.....

Jeff

( ready for your weak ass insults, little man.....PJ ?? )

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 11:50:11 -0400, "Never_Enough_Tools"
wrote:


"wyredog" wrote in message
roups.com...
Hi I just joined the group so please forgive any unintended rudeness on
my part.


Hey wyredog,

Just so you know, this ****bag PJ only crawled in here a week or so ago,
this was / is a very useful group of NICE helpful folks.

Hey, asshole - some dickwad started cross-posting, is what
happened !

As soon as that **** stops, I disappear from your group like a
bad dream.

Do your part ! Make it happen ! Stop cross-posting !!!!


Ignore ****face and soon enough he will slink back to the homo room.....

Jeff

( ready for your weak ass insults, little man.....PJ ?? )


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 05:08:29 GMT, Gunner
wrote:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 17:49:43 GMT,
wrote:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 17:44:20 GMT, Ignoramus16532
wrote:

and while you are at it, take photos of the professional and his truck

While you're at it, bend over and take a picture of your own
ass.

You are living proof that the HVAC industry is a scam business, or has
a serious number of scammers.

If they were honest and cared about their reputations, they would have
by now, hunted you down, given you an R-12 enema and then run you
through a large fan unit, feet first and slowly.

Yanno Gunner, this guy is just BEGGING for the "50,000 acres of
backyard and a backhoe" treatment.

Note to RCM Participants: No matter how tempting, please stop
crossposting to the HVAC group - even though it may be off topic, you
are much more likely to get a proper answer here - because we're not
pretentious enough to think that "I know it all, all knowledge must be
sold, and only to the highest bidder."

If you haven't figured it out yet, there are a bunch of assholes
there. If they get too old and decrepit to get up on a roof or into
an attic, they sit at home and snipe at those of us who can.

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 00:05:03 GMT, Bruce L Bergman wrote:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 05:08:29 GMT, Gunner
wrote:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 17:49:43 GMT,
wrote:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 17:44:20 GMT, Ignoramus16532
wrote:

and while you are at it, take photos of the professional and his truck

While you're at it, bend over and take a picture of your own
ass.

You are living proof that the HVAC industry is a scam business, or has
a serious number of scammers.

If they were honest and cared about their reputations, they would have
by now, hunted you down, given you an R-12 enema and then run you
through a large fan unit, feet first and slowly.

Yanno Gunner, this guy is just BEGGING for the "50,000 acres of
backyard and a backhoe" treatment.

Note to RCM Participants: No matter how tempting, please stop
crossposting to the HVAC group - even though it may be off topic, you
are much more likely to get a proper answer here - because we're not
pretentious enough to think that "I know it all, all knowledge must be
sold, and only to the highest bidder."

If you haven't figured it out yet, there are a bunch of assholes
there. If they get too old and decrepit to get up on a roof or into
an attic, they sit at home and snipe at those of us who can.



I agree, Bruce, but what do you think about OP's problem?

i

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 02:21:46 +0000 (UTC), Ignoramus10329
wrote:

I agree, Bruce, but what do you think about OP's problem?

Okay, quick mind dump, I'm not going searching for every detail.

Rule Number One: You have to use the most important tool you have
in your arsenal, everyone has one and it's free - it's that ~4-pound
lump of wet wrinkly gray stuff between your ears. The "wetware
programming" takes a lot of time, but it's worth the effort.

This (Stuff) isn't Rocket Science, you just have to think. Get a
clear handle on all the signs and symptoms, and all will be revealed.
When you get the right facts clear in your head and the proverbial
"Eureka!" light bulb blinks on, you'll know it.

On to substance...

The OP mentioned something about a warranty - if the unit is only a
few years old, he needs to call the AC manufacturer or the Compressor
manufacturer and have them get someone else, someone /honest/ out
there - BEFORE dinking around on his own, which might make it worse
and void the warranty. Tell the corporate rep the names of the first
two dinks, so they don't get called back.

The bigger service companies have specialized "Hermetic Compressor
Analyzers" that measure all the nuances of the start and run coils in
the motor - inductance, ground faults, inter-winding faults, etc., and
they'll pick up most flaky compressors, and tell you WHY they failed,
without opening up the can. And they'll flag voltage or capacitor
problems. You can even kick it in reverse to free up a locked rotor.

I never bought one because I was with a small company, and I don't
drop $300 to $700 on a whim. If you don't use them often...

Could be something as stupid as burned contacts on the main
contactor - when they cheap out and use the "1-1/2-Pole" contactors,
there is a single point of failure that takes all the abuse. The
stupid things are under $20 - some under $10, if the contacts are
visibly burned and pitted, yank it.

But DO NOT change to a 2-pole contactor and modify the wiring to
match without checking the wiring diagram - they might do something
stupid like run a compressor crankcase heater using the open-circuit
voltage going across the relay. (Just like a block heater on a car -
keep the oil warm so it will flow on startup.)

I still think it's a very bad practice to use a single-pole
contactor (the "1/2" pole is just a strap between the Line and Load
lugs) and leave 120V to ground power on the motor coils - too many
things can go wrong.

It is ILLEGAL to single-phase switch the power like that on a pool
pump motor because they don't like pool service men (who didn't
properly kill the breaker, or check that it's really dead) lighting up
like neon signs, I don't see why HVAC gets a break on that rule.

Make sure there is NOT a "Break Delay" timer in the circuit, or a
delay function on one of the fancy new furnace control boards that is
messing you up - they are installed so that kiddies can't play 'Toggle
The Thermostat' and blow it up by constant locked-rotor starts against
head pressure.

Same thing with hidden "Duct Limiter" thermostats that keep people
from setting the thermostat at 45F for a week (which the AC can never
reach) and turning the evaporator core into a solid block of ice.
Been there, Thawed that.

Unless they shipped a bad capacitor, you shouldn't need to change a
run cap for several years. If you ever have to change one and it
isn't marked as "Internal Resistor" (or even if it is...) have a few
1-Meg or 2.2 Meg 1/2 watt carbons handy, and red .250 female crimp
connectors for the leads.

Shorting the terminals is very hard on the shafts of your
screwdrivers, they start getting scorch marks. And unless you leave a
bleeder on it, a charge can build back up.

You really should not need to add a "Kick-Start" kit (start
capacitor and potential relay) to a new unit. That's a dodge for
getting an old and weak compressor to fire up for a few more years,
and will probably void the warranty on a new unit.

If a new - or fairly new - compressor won't start, there may be too
much head pressure on it, or there's a voltage drop problem. If the
condenser fan isn't working right, the high side pressures will go
through the roof, and take a long time to bleed back down.

Which reminds me, check for a high-side or low-side cutoff pressure
switch opening...

-- Bruce --


--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 04:01:02 GMT, Bruce L Bergman wrote:
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 02:21:46 +0000 (UTC), Ignoramus10329
wrote:

I agree, Bruce, but what do you think about OP's problem?

Okay, quick mind dump, I'm not going searching for every detail.

Rule Number One: You have to use the most important tool you have
in your arsenal, everyone has one and it's free - it's that ~4-pound
lump of wet wrinkly gray stuff between your ears. The "wetware
programming" takes a lot of time, but it's worth the effort.

Yes, an amazing amount of troubleshooting can be done using simple
observations and deductive thinking.

This (Stuff) isn't Rocket Science, you just have to think. Get a
clear handle on all the signs and symptoms, and all will be revealed.
When you get the right facts clear in your head and the proverbial
"Eureka!" light bulb blinks on, you'll know it.

yes.


The bigger service companies have specialized "Hermetic Compressor
Analyzers" that measure all the nuances of the start and run coils in
the motor - inductance, ground faults, inter-winding faults, etc., and
they'll pick up most flaky compressors, and tell you WHY they failed,
without opening up the can. And they'll flag voltage or capacitor
problems. You can even kick it in reverse to free up a locked rotor.

I never bought one because I was with a small company, and I don't
drop $300 to $700 on a whim. If you don't use them often...

Could be something as stupid as burned contacts on the main
contactor - when they cheap out and use the "1-1/2-Pole" contactors,
there is a single point of failure that takes all the abuse. The
stupid things are under $20 - some under $10, if the contacts are
visibly burned and pitted, yank it.

Would that cause OVERcurrent, though?

Unless they shipped a bad capacitor, you shouldn't need to change a
run cap for several years. If you ever have to change one and it
isn't marked as "Internal Resistor" (or even if it is...) have a few
1-Meg or 2.2 Meg 1/2 watt carbons handy, and red .250 female crimp
connectors for the leads.

One meg could take quite a while to discharge a cap (say, 200 uF *
1,000,000 ohm = 200 second RC constant).

Shorting the terminals is very hard on the shafts of your
screwdrivers, they start getting scorch marks. And unless you leave a
bleeder on it, a charge can build back up.

You really should not need to add a "Kick-Start" kit (start
capacitor and potential relay) to a new unit. That's a dodge for
getting an old and weak compressor to fire up for a few more years,
and will probably void the warranty on a new unit.

If a new - or fairly new - compressor won't start, there may be too
much head pressure on it, or there's a voltage drop problem. If the
condenser fan isn't working right, the high side pressures will go
through the roof, and take a long time to bleed back down.

Which reminds me, check for a high-side or low-side cutoff pressure
switch opening...


These are good guesses. If I was the OP, I would start working on them
systematically (look at contactor, condenser fan etc)

i

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 14:07:18 +0000 (UTC), Ignoramus5766
wrote:

These are good guesses. If I was the OP, I would start working on them
systematically (look at contactor, condenser fan etc)

Some days you can't figure out what's wrong - so rather than stand
there and scratch your head, you go through it again and this time
find out what's NOT wrong. After you've eliminated everything else...
Bingo!

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 15:29:44 GMT, Bruce L Bergman wrote:
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 14:07:18 +0000 (UTC), Ignoramus5766
wrote:

These are good guesses. If I was the OP, I would start working on them
systematically (look at contactor, condenser fan etc)

Some days you can't figure out what's wrong - so rather than stand
there and scratch your head, you go through it again and this time
find out what's NOT wrong. After you've eliminated everything else...

Yes. Very few problems can stand up to and resist the process of
elimination. That's been my experience.

i

Ignoramus10329 wrote:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 08:56:39 -0500, * wrote:

Ignoramus10329 wrote in article
...
I agree with Dave Hinz. Your posts are not worth reading. I doubt you
know much about yor trade either, probably a just a "part swapper". I am
killfiling you as of right now.

Just look at the various times he posts throughout the day......

Is there a REAL HVAC guy in the USA who is NOT straight-out busy with the
coast-to-coast heat we are experiencing?

How does Mr. Know-It-All find time to piddle around here if he is THAT good
in HVAC?
He's just a trolling asshole

I agree with up to here.


who knows a little bit about how A/C works.

And that I disagree with, he has not given us any reason to think so
-- all I heard from him was insults.

He hasn't worked AC in 10 years, he's a friggin' software geek!
http://www.pmilligan.net/milligan_resume.htm

Stuart Wheaton wrote in article
...

He hasn't worked AC in 10 years, he's a friggin' software geek!

.....which explains his prediliction to "Buy the Book" versus "By the
Book"...LOL!!

He's off giving two-word profane answers to opposite sides in another
thread about sheet metal work hoping, I suppose, to put the embarrassment
he caused himself here behind him.

As I said before, if he were truly a good HVAC guy, he'd be too busy with
the coast-to-coast heat wave to spend time here.

What a TROLL!!!!