On 19 Jul 2006 18:17:45 -0700, wyredog wrote:
Hi I just joined the group so please forgive any unintended rudeness on
my part.

Oh and don't let my nickname be misinterpreted as my being any sort of
self-proclaimed electrical genius.....It is a spin on our breed of dogs
..Wire hair fox terriers.

My question is this: I am about to replace the dual capacitor on my
heat pump. I have a vague understanding that it contains a charge that
could be lethal or could otherwise knock me on my @ss. What should I
do/not do as I remove the capacitor.....I know to turn the power off to
the outside unit but beyond that welcome any and all honest advice.

In most cases, there is a resistor across the terminals of the
capacitor, so that it loses its charge in a few minutes (or sooner)
after being turned off.

You cannot assume that it is the case for YOU without knowing for sure
(ie, seeing and identifying the bleed resistor).

The first thing to do is to identify two terminals of the
capacitor. If you cannot do that, safety considerations suggest to put
everything back and call a "qualified expert". If you see two
terminals, take an isolated screwdriver by its isolated handle
(without touching metal) and make sure that you connect two ends of
the capacitor with the screwdriver.

Most likely (as would be in the case of a bleed resistor), nothing
would happen, but if the cap holds a charge, you can hear a loud
discharge. After you make 100% sure that the cap is discharged, it is
safe to handle it (and if you like to be really careful, you do not
have to touch the terminals anyway).

Why do you think that you need to replace the caps?

i

In most cases, there is a resistor across the terminals of the
capacitor, so that it loses its charge in a few minutes (or sooner)
after being turned off.

You cannot assume that it is the case for YOU without knowing for sure
(ie, seeing and identifying the bleed resistor).

The first thing to do is to identify two terminals of the
capacitor. If you cannot do that, safety considerations suggest to put
everything back and call a "qualified expert". If you see two
terminals, take an isolated screwdriver by its isolated handle
(without touching metal) and make sure that you connect two ends of
the capacitor with the screwdriver.

Most likely (as would be in the case of a bleed resistor), nothing
would happen, but if the cap holds a charge, you can hear a loud
discharge. After you make 100% sure that the cap is discharged, it is
safe to handle it (and if you like to be really careful, you do not
have to touch the terminals anyway).

Why do you think that you need to replace the caps?

Thanks for the info!

I think the cap is the cheapest thing that may be the likely fix. See
what you think:

A few days ago I cam home to a silent outside unit (no fan no
compressor nothing). Found that the 30A breaker was thrown. Turned it
back on and it flipped off after a couple seconds. Later I tried it
again jsut because I was hot hand had nothing else to think about.
This time it worked...the heat pump turned on and ran as if nothing
were wrong.

So I replaced the breaker hoping it was just to weak. Same scenario
with it. The AC will run ..on ...off on...off through several cooling
cycles then one time it will throw the breaker and that's all she wrote
until I go into the crawl space and turn the breaker on again.

Other relavent factors: The unit is only 3 years old, Arco Air made by
Carrier. And it has been record heat here since just before this
began......causing the unit to run very frequently

On 19 Jul 2006 19:10:17 -0700, wyredog wrote:
In most cases, there is a resistor across the terminals of the
capacitor, so that it loses its charge in a few minutes (or sooner)
after being turned off.

You cannot assume that it is the case for YOU without knowing for sure
(ie, seeing and identifying the bleed resistor).

The first thing to do is to identify two terminals of the
capacitor. If you cannot do that, safety considerations suggest to put
everything back and call a "qualified expert". If you see two
terminals, take an isolated screwdriver by its isolated handle
(without touching metal) and make sure that you connect two ends of
the capacitor with the screwdriver.

Most likely (as would be in the case of a bleed resistor), nothing
would happen, but if the cap holds a charge, you can hear a loud
discharge. After you make 100% sure that the cap is discharged, it is
safe to handle it (and if you like to be really careful, you do not
have to touch the terminals anyway).

Why do you think that you need to replace the caps?

Thanks for the info!

I think the cap is the cheapest thing that may be the likely fix. See
what you think:

A few days ago I cam home to a silent outside unit (no fan no
compressor nothing). Found that the 30A breaker was thrown. Turned it
back on and it flipped off after a couple seconds. Later I tried it
again jsut because I was hot hand had nothing else to think about.
This time it worked...the heat pump turned on and ran as if nothing
were wrong.

Do you have a wife or anyone else who can turn on the breaker from
inside while you are outside, listening? Does it pop instantly or
after some little time? Does the A/C make a humming noise during that
time?

i

So I replaced the breaker hoping it was just to weak.

The breaker has to match the A/C, you know.

Same scenario with it. The AC will run ..on ...off on...off through
several cooling cycles then one time it will throw the breaker and
that's all she wrote until I go into the crawl space and turn the
breaker on again.

Other relavent factors: The unit is only 3 years old, Arco Air made by
Carrier. And it has been record heat here since just before this
began......causing the unit to run very frequently


I dunno, it possibly is not the capacitor. If you have a multimeter
(as you should) with a capacitance, tester, you can test it (it could
be bad at 220VAC even if tests OK by the tester, but still it is good
to test).

Do not assume too much too soon. Could be that something makes the
motor run harder than it should, for example. Some good investigation
and careful writing down of the facts could help.

You may need to "hire a pro", eventually, but you would run less of a
chance of being taken to cleaners if you form a good picture of what
is going on. Or maybe you can just fix it.

i

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 02:16:03 GMT, Ignoramus16532
wrote:

On 19 Jul 2006 19:10:17 -0700, wyredog wrote:
In most cases, there is a resistor across the terminals of the

Why do you think that you need to replace the caps?

Thanks for the info!

I think the cap is the cheapest thing that may be the likely fix. See
what you think:

So I replaced the breaker hoping it was just to weak.

Throw some MORE parts at it, why don't you ?

How's about take this ****ing amateur hour comedy routine somewhere
else ????



You may need to "hire a pro", eventually, but you would run less of a
chance of being taken to cleaners if you form a good picture of what
is going on. Or maybe you can just fix it.

i

--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

"Ignoramus16532" wrote in message
news
On 19 Jul 2006 19:10:17 -0700, wyredog wrote:
In most cases, there is a resistor across the terminals of the
capacitor, so that it loses its charge in a few minutes (or sooner)
after being turned off.

You cannot assume that it is the case for YOU without knowing for sure
(ie, seeing and identifying the bleed resistor).

The first thing to do is to identify two terminals of the
capacitor. If you cannot do that, safety considerations suggest to put
everything back and call a "qualified expert". If you see two
terminals, take an isolated screwdriver by its isolated handle
(without touching metal) and make sure that you connect two ends of
the capacitor with the screwdriver.

Most likely (as would be in the case of a bleed resistor), nothing
would happen, but if the cap holds a charge, you can hear a loud
discharge. After you make 100% sure that the cap is discharged, it is
safe to handle it (and if you like to be really careful, you do not
have to touch the terminals anyway).

Why do you think that you need to replace the caps?

Thanks for the info!

I think the cap is the cheapest thing that may be the likely fix. See
what you think:

A few days ago I cam home to a silent outside unit (no fan no
compressor nothing). Found that the 30A breaker was thrown. Turned it
back on and it flipped off after a couple seconds. Later I tried it
again jsut because I was hot hand had nothing else to think about.
This time it worked...the heat pump turned on and ran as if nothing
were wrong.

Do you have a wife or anyone else who can turn on the breaker from
inside while you are outside, listening? Does it pop instantly or
after some little time? Does the A/C make a humming noise during that
time?

i

So I replaced the breaker hoping it was just to weak.

The breaker has to match the A/C, you know.

Same scenario with it. The AC will run ..on ...off on...off through
several cooling cycles then one time it will throw the breaker and
that's all she wrote until I go into the crawl space and turn the
breaker on again.

Other relavent factors: The unit is only 3 years old, Arco Air made by
Carrier. And it has been record heat here since just before this
began......causing the unit to run very frequently


I dunno, it possibly is not the capacitor. If you have a multimeter
(as you should) with a capacitance, tester, you can test it (it could
be bad at 220VAC even if tests OK by the tester, but still it is good
to test).

Do not assume too much too soon. Could be that something makes the
motor run harder than it should, for example. Some good investigation
and careful writing down of the facts could help.

You may need to "hire a pro", eventually, but you would run less of a
chance of being taken to cleaners if you form a good picture of what
is going on. Or maybe you can just fix it.

I hate working on stuff *after* some fool (the home owner) has screwed with
it..... thats even worse(and a lot more expensive) that fixing jackleg
screw-ups.
A breaker that trips is NOT a good thing... a breaker is a SAFETY
DEVICE...if it trips, there is a reason.
Call a competent tech to find out WHY the breaker tripped, and get it
repaired correctly.

Pretty much turn off the power. It's my experience that I've shorted a
bunch of caps, and never had one come up "hot".

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"wyredog" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi I just joined the group so please forgive any unintended rudeness
on
my part.

Oh and don't let my nickname be misinterpreted as my being any sort of
self-proclaimed electrical genius.....It is a spin on our breed of
dogs
...Wire hair fox terriers.

My question is this: I am about to replace the dual capacitor on my
heat pump. I have a vague understanding that it contains a charge
that
could be lethal or could otherwise knock me on my @ss. What should I
do/not do as I remove the capacitor.....I know to turn the power off
to
the outside unit but beyond that welcome any and all honest advice.

Thanks

Wyredog (fox terrier)

Do you have a wife or anyone else who can turn on the breaker from
inside while you are outside, listening? Does it pop instantly or
after some little time? Does the A/C make a humming noise during that
time?
The outside unit makes a snap or click noise and then the breaker is
thrown..no humming as if the compressor is tryiing to start at all.

The breaker has to match the A/C, you know.

Good of you to mention....but yes I replaced the 30A with a new 30A



I dunno, it possibly is not the capacitor. If you have a multimeter
(as you should) with a capacitance, tester, you can test it (it could
be bad at 220VAC even if tests OK by the tester, but still it is good
to test).

Do not assume too much too soon. Could be that something makes the
motor run harder than it should, for example.
Do you know what would make the compressor harder starting than it
should be but still it runs okay when started?

I think I have a pretty good picture of what is happening ..just lack
the technical knowledge to isolate the problem...II'm a mechanical
designer but know little to nothing about electrical..trying to deduce
this from a mechanical standpoint but am kind of backed into an
electrical "corner".

"wyredog" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi I just joined the group so please forgive any unintended rudeness on
my part.

Which Group? Ya cross posted to three of them. You may remove alt.hvac from
your list.

Oh and don't let my nickname be misinterpreted as my being any sort of
self-proclaimed electrical genius.....It is a spin on our breed of dogs
..Wire hair fox terriers.

My question is this: I am about to replace the dual capacitor on my
heat pump. I have a vague understanding that it contains a charge that
could be lethal or could otherwise knock me on my @ss. What should I
do/not do as I remove the capacitor.....I know to turn the power off to
the outside unit but beyond that welcome any and all honest advice.

Why are you replacing a capacitor on your heat pump? As a preventative
maintenance measure? Or is the heat pump not working so you thought you'd
take a crap shoot (completely blindly) Start by replacing the thermostat, as
most problems are related to bad thermostats.

To answer your other question, yes, certain capacitors can retain a charge
that can easily be lethal, and/or remove parts of your body upon contact.
Sometimes getting close enough will do the trick.

As far as "What should I do/not do as I remove the capacitor" goes, the key
words are "do not". You do not know what you are doing. You do not know what
to do. And you do not know why you are doing what you are thinking about
doing.

So, the best answer based on the information you have provided is "do not".

Call a real tech, and the problem will be solved.



Thanks

Wyredog (fox terrier)

We'd like to know a few things like the model number. and the tonnage.

If your neighborhood has been having brownouts.

And if you've ever had your AC professionally serviced. Unit cleaned,
freon levels checked, etc.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"wyredog" wrote in message
ups.com...

Thanks for the info!

I think the cap is the cheapest thing that may be the likely fix. See
what you think:

A few days ago I cam home to a silent outside unit (no fan no
compressor nothing). Found that the 30A breaker was thrown. Turned
it
back on and it flipped off after a couple seconds. Later I tried it
again jsut because I was hot hand had nothing else to think about.
This time it worked...the heat pump turned on and ran as if nothing
were wrong.

So I replaced the breaker hoping it was just to weak. Same scenario
with it. The AC will run ..on ...off on...off through several cooling
cycles then one time it will throw the breaker and that's all she
wrote
until I go into the crawl space and turn the breaker on again.

Other relavent factors: The unit is only 3 years old, Arco Air made
by
Carrier. And it has been record heat here since just before this
began......causing the unit to run very frequently

As you will find out rapidly, there are a few folks here who are
impolite. They will self identify rapidly.

Using your logic, I went to my doctor and asked for the cheapest Rx I
could have. Figuring cause I was sick, I wanted to take the cheapest
pills. I'd try the cheaper pills, and work up to the more expensive
ones later. I'm up to about four dollars a bottle, and I'm still sick.

My neighbor had the same condition. He went into the doc and told him
the symptoms. The doc did an examination, wrote the pills that he
really needed, and he's just fine now. My neighbor says I may have
craneo rectal invertitis.

Actuallly, since you write and ask for advice on changing caps instead
of asking for help diagnosing, you may have CRI also. Incidentally,
take two asprin. And, when the asprin take effect, replace your
thermostat.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"wyredog" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi I just joined the group so please forgive any unintended rudeness
on
my part.

Thanks

Wyredog (fox terrier)

Yes, I do.

Please post the tech specs requested.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"wyredog" wrote in message
oups.com...

Do you know what would make the compressor harder starting than it
should be but still it runs okay when started?

I think I have a pretty good picture of what is happening ..just lack
the technical knowledge to isolate the problem...II'm a mechanical
designer but know little to nothing about electrical..trying to deduce
this from a mechanical standpoint but am kind of backed into an
electrical "corner".

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 02:32:24 GMT, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

As you will find out rapidly, there are a few folks here who are
impolite. They will self identify rapidly.

And there are some who are clueless hacks that never worked on
anything that didn't slide in and out of a window.

Stormy Mormy is one of them.


Using your logic, I went to my doctor and asked for the cheapest Rx I
could have. Figuring cause I was sick, I wanted to take the cheapest
pills. I'd try the cheaper pills, and work up to the more expensive
ones later. I'm up to about four dollars a bottle, and I'm still sick.

My neighbor had the same condition. He went into the doc and told him
the symptoms. The doc did an examination, wrote the pills that he
really needed, and he's just fine now. My neighbor says I may have
craneo rectal invertitis.

Actuallly, since you write and ask for advice on changing caps instead
of asking for help diagnosing, you may have CRI also. Incidentally,
take two asprin. And, when the asprin take effect, replace your
thermostat.

--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 02:32:24 GMT, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

We'd like to know a few things like the model number. and the tonnage.

Speak for youself, you ****ing dip****.

'WE' want this amateur parts-changing ****-fest taken the hell
out of here.



If your neighborhood has been having brownouts.

And if you've ever had your AC professionally serviced. Unit cleaned,
freon levels checked, etc.

Why don't you just plain shut the **** up ????


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 02:37:15 GMT, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Yes, I do.

No you don't, you clueless freak show.


Please post the tech specs requested.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
.

"wyredog" wrote in message
roups.com...

Do you know what would make the compressor harder starting than it
should be but still it runs okay when started?

I think I have a pretty good picture of what is happening ..just lack
the technical knowledge to isolate the problem...II'm a mechanical
designer but know little to nothing about electrical..trying to deduce
this from a mechanical standpoint but am kind of backed into an
electrical "corner".


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

I get the feeling several on this site think I tossed a coin to see
what I would start replacing: Here's some history:

A few days ago I cam home to a silent outside unit (no fan no
compressor nothing). Found that the 30A breaker was thrown. Turned
it
back on and it flipped off after a couple seconds. Later I tried it
again jsut because I was hot hand had nothing else to think about.
This time it worked...the heat pump turned on and ran as if nothing
were wrong.


So I replaced the breaker hoping it was just to weak. Same scenario
with it. The AC will run ..on ...off on...off through several cooling
cycles then one time it will throw the breaker and that's all she
wrote
until I go into the crawl space and turn the breaker on again.


Other relavent factors: The unit is only 3 years old, Arco Air made
by
Carrier. And it has been record heat here since just before this
began......causing the unit to run very frequently

When the unit runs it runs great...just doesn't start every
time....Curious...What leads you to suspect the thermostat...it appears
to be functioning normally as does everything else...when it
starts.....start....capacitor...am I really all that "shooting in the
dark?"

Stormin Mormon wrote:
We'd like to know a few things like the model number. and the tonnage.

If your neighborhood has been having brownouts.

And if you've ever had your AC professionally serviced. Unit cleaned,
freon levels checked, etc.


hhp436akc1

no brownouts..had the asshole who installed show up at my house without
first returning my message and say "yup breaker switch is
thrown...nothing else".

Soyou can see between that and the $950 estimat I am not real eager to
try a third " professional"

wrote:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 02:37:15 GMT, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Yes, I do.

No you don't, you clueless freak show.

Hey PJ Ma see me,

Are you looking for the "Disgruntled, out of work, cause I got the
business manners of a Jackass" Group......Cause your opinions aren't
worth a damn to me here

Your probably one of the guys who's already been here and charged me
for pullin in the driveway. Geez what is it with HVAC does it attract
nothing but the lowest characters that couldn't get into law school?

On 19 Jul 2006 19:41:30 -0700, "wyredog"
wrote:

I get the feeling several on this site think I tossed a coin to see
what I would start replacing:

Yep.

When the unit runs it runs great...just doesn't start every
time....Curious...What leads you to suspect the thermostat...it appears
to be functioning normally as does everything else...when it
starts.....start....capacitor...am I really all that "shooting in the
dark?"

Yes you are.

Any tech here ( that leaves out Stormy Mormy, who has been the
laughingstock of this group for years, and he's only here because it
satifies his need for self-flagellation ) already knows the list of
things, in order of likelyhood, that can cause this. 'Bad compressor'
is VERY far down the list. Bad breaker and bad cap aren't even on it.

What IS on it is : You need a qualified tech with the right
knowledge and equipment to come out and fix it. You have neither.
You might be a regulation gene-e-us at whatever you do, but you
working on your AC is like asking me to pilot an F-22- you're just not
going to get very far before you crash and burn.


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

On 19 Jul 2006 20:02:25 -0700, "wyredog"
wrote:


wrote:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 02:37:15 GMT, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Yes, I do.

No you don't, you clueless freak show.

Hey PJ Ma see me,

Are you looking for the "Disgruntled, out of work, cause I got the
business manners of a Jackass" Group......Cause your opinions aren't
worth a damn to me here

Your probably one of the guys who's already been here and charged me
for pullin in the driveway. Geez what is it with HVAC does it attract
nothing but the lowest characters that couldn't get into law school?

**** off, ****y little home-moaner.

You clueless twit, I was slamming Stormy Mormy, not you.

Just plainly go **** yourself, asshole. Just plainly go ****
youself. And btw - a real good indicator that I haven't been to your
house, aside from the fact that I graduated from running service calls
years ago, and never bothered with little residential **** anyway
except as a favor to people, is that your AC is all ****ed up.

Enjoy your heat wave, mother****er.


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Nice and cool here now..no thanks to your bitchy ass ..take some midol
and come back when you have something to offer other than abuse

On 19 Jul 2006 20:12:13 -0700, "wyredog"
wrote:

Nice and cool here now..no thanks to your bitchy ass ..take some midol
and come back when you have something to offer other than abuse

You would know more about Midol than I do, bitch.


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Nice and cool here now..no thanks to your bitchy ass ..take some midol
and come back when you have something to offer other than abuse

You would know more about Midol than I do, bitch.


Ooooooo tough comeback genius...not wasting anymore time on you ..bye
now :^)

On 19 Jul 2006 19:31:46 -0700, wyredog wrote:
" Professional " wanted to charge me $950 to replace the compressor
(which is under warrranty) and dryer and cap. Schwew...ran the same
stuff by antoher and got a 350 estimate...thought a cap and breaker
were good simple places to start


But what did the professional say, did he give you a coherent
explanation of what he thought was wrong? Did he explain what problems
cause what symptoms?

He may be right, maybe, or maybe he is not, it is good to know
details.

i

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 22:30:30 -0400, Mo Hoaner wrote:

Why are you replacing a capacitor on your heat pump? As a preventative
maintenance measure? Or is the heat pump not working so you thought you'd
take a crap shoot (completely blindly) Start by replacing the thermostat, as
most problems are related to bad thermostats.

He said that his problem is related to a popping 220V breaker. Is a
popping breaker caused by a bad thermostat?

To answer your other question, yes, certain capacitors can retain a charge
that can easily be lethal, and/or remove parts of your body upon contact.
Sometimes getting close enough will do the trick.

As far as "What should I do/not do as I remove the capacitor" goes, the key
words are "do not". You do not know what you are doing. You do not know what
to do. And you do not know why you are doing what you are thinking about
doing.

But would he not be able to obtain good advice? That's why he is
posting here, to understand how to handle capacitors.

It does not take an Einstein to understand what a capacitor is and how
to discharge one that is going to be replaced. An ape can probably be
taught how to discharge capacitors.

i

Actually he suggested I replace the cicuit breaker which I did.
Was professional and all...just his company quote book was really high.

He seemed to thing I would need a new compressor. Said I would also
need to replace the dryer and capasitor in order to not void the
warranty on the new compressor.

So I got to thinking...if I am going to pay for a new cap anyway and
the compressor seems to bee running fine just not starting all the time
well why not replace the cap myself and see if that works....Good Lord
I didn't expect the abuse from a few grumpy blokes here. But then I'm
new to the group...Hey thanks for your advice you were one of the few
who offered something useful.

Ignoramus16532 wrote:
On 19 Jul 2006 19:31:46 -0700, wyredog wrote:
" Professional " wanted to charge me $950 to replace the compressor
(which is under warrranty) and dryer and cap. Schwew...ran the same
stuff by antoher and got a 350 estimate...thought a cap and breaker
were good simple places to start


But what did the professional say, did he give you a coherent
explanation of what he thought was wrong? Did he explain what problems
cause what symptoms?

He may be right, maybe, or maybe he is not, it is good to know
details.

i

"It does not take an Einstein to understand what a capacitor is and how

to discharge one that is going to be replaced. An ape can probably be
taught how to discharge capacitors"

Funny how the same types that would ridicule someone for asking a
question about a device that could hold the potentail to kill...Will
also ridicule anyone who is killed due to ignorance of the device.
(caps)

Does inhaling to much freon make you grumpy and uncooperative...maybe
someone should conduct a study.

On 19 Jul 2006 20:24:00 -0700, wyredog wrote:
Actually he suggested I replace the cicuit breaker which I did.
Was professional and all...just his company quote book was really high.

He seemed to thing I would need a new compressor. Said I would also
need to replace the dryer and capasitor in order to not void the
warranty on the new compressor.

What did he say in response to question WHY (why was he suggesting
what he was suggesting). That's what is important. What's his
explanation.

So I got to thinking...if I am going to pay for a new cap anyway and
the compressor seems to bee running fine just not starting all the time
well why not replace the cap myself and see if that works....Good Lord
I didn't expect the abuse from a few grumpy blokes here. But then I'm
new to the group...Hey thanks for your advice you were one of the few
who offered something useful.

Capacitors are cheap, really likely worth less than the value of time
that you spent here discussing your question. But this intermittent
situation does not seem like a capacitor problem.

Did you open up your compressor cover, disconnect, etc, did you try
tracing where is electricity with your multimeter etc?

Do you have a schematic of your unit?

Get yourself a multimeter with a clamp ammeter. Try to be systematic,
I do not see evidence of a systematic thought process/investigation yet.

I see some traces of same mentality "let's start replacing stuff" that
we do not like about some paid "servicepersons". I think that your
advantage here could be having time, persistence and a systematic
approach. Try to use this advantage.

i

Ignoramus16532 wrote:
On 19 Jul 2006 19:31:46 -0700, wyredog wrote:
" Professional " wanted to charge me $950 to replace the compressor
(which is under warrranty) and dryer and cap. Schwew...ran the same
stuff by antoher and got a 350 estimate...thought a cap and breaker
were good simple places to start


But what did the professional say, did he give you a coherent
explanation of what he thought was wrong? Did he explain what problems
cause what symptoms?

He may be right, maybe, or maybe he is not, it is good to know
details.

i

On 19 Jul 2006 20:16:43 -0700, "wyredog"
wrote:


Nice and cool here now..no thanks to your bitchy ass ..take some midol
and come back when you have something to offer other than abuse

You would know more about Midol than I do, bitch.


Ooooooo tough comeback genius...not wasting anymore time on you ..bye
now :^)

You LIVE to read my every word, punk.


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 03:23:45 +0000 (UTC), Ignoramus16532
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 22:30:30 -0400, Mo Hoaner wrote:

Why are you replacing a capacitor on your heat pump? As a preventative
maintenance measure? Or is the heat pump not working so you thought you'd
take a crap shoot (completely blindly) Start by replacing the thermostat, as
most problems are related to bad thermostats.

He said that his problem is related to a popping 220V breaker. Is a
popping breaker caused by a bad thermostat?

To answer your other question, yes, certain capacitors can retain a charge
that can easily be lethal, and/or remove parts of your body upon contact.
Sometimes getting close enough will do the trick.

As far as "What should I do/not do as I remove the capacitor" goes, the key
words are "do not". You do not know what you are doing. You do not know what
to do. And you do not know why you are doing what you are thinking about
doing.

But would he not be able to obtain good advice? That's why he is
posting here, to understand how to handle capacitors.

It does not take an Einstein to understand what a capacitor is and how
to discharge one that is going to be replaced. An ape can probably be
taught how to discharge capacitors.

i

However, it apparently escapes you that a bad capacitor CAN
NOT cause the symptoms he has.


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

On 19 Jul 2006 20:24:00 -0700, "wyredog"
wrote:

Actually he suggested I replace the cicuit breaker which I did.
Was professional and all...just his company quote book was really high.

He seemed to thing I would need a new compressor. Said I would also
need to replace the dryer and capasitor in order to not void the
warranty on the new compressor.

So I got to thinking...if I am going to pay for a new cap anyway and
the compressor seems to bee running fine just not starting all the time
well why not replace the cap myself and see if that works....Good Lord
I didn't expect the abuse from a few grumpy blokes here. But then I'm
new to the group...Hey thanks for your advice you were one of the few
who offered something useful.

Yeh- he gave you WRONG advice that CAN NOT rsult in your AC
working, or even in making progress towards that goal.

Thank him some more.


Ignoramus16532 wrote:
On 19 Jul 2006 19:31:46 -0700, wyredog wrote:
" Professional " wanted to charge me $950 to replace the compressor
(which is under warrranty) and dryer and cap. Schwew...ran the same
stuff by antoher and got a 350 estimate...thought a cap and breaker
were good simple places to start


But what did the professional say, did he give you a coherent
explanation of what he thought was wrong? Did he explain what problems
cause what symptoms?

He may be right, maybe, or maybe he is not, it is good to know
details.

i

--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

On 19 Jul 2006 20:31:23 -0700, wyredog wrote:

"It does not take an Einstein to understand what a capacitor is and how

to discharge one that is going to be replaced. An ape can probably be
taught how to discharge capacitors"

Funny how the same types that would ridicule someone for asking a
question about a device that could hold the potentail to kill...Will
also ridicule anyone who is killed due to ignorance of the device.
(caps)

Does inhaling to much freon make you grumpy and uncooperative...maybe
someone should conduct a study.


Do not get sidetracked, you need to have your problem solved, not
argue with unfriendly people late at night. Drop the hvac newsgroup
from the list, if you do not get useful responses, and keep digging
deeper and post to alt.home.repair and rec.crafts.metalworking.

You need to call tomorrow and ask the company for a manual, maybe they
will give you one. I am not saying that you can fix any problem, but
you should hope to come across some "troubleshooting checklist" for
your model that you could apply.

i

On 19 Jul 2006 20:31:23 -0700, "wyredog"
wrote:


"It does not take an Einstein to understand what a capacitor is and how

to discharge one that is going to be replaced. An ape can probably be
taught how to discharge capacitors"

Funny how the same types that would ridicule someone for asking a
question about a device that could hold the potentail to kill...Will
also ridicule anyone who is killed due to ignorance of the device.
(caps)

Does inhaling to much freon make you grumpy and uncooperative...maybe
someone should conduct a study.

Maybe you should kiss our great collective ass.


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 03:31:36 +0000 (UTC), Ignoramus16532
wrote:

On 19 Jul 2006 20:24:00 -0700, wyredog wrote:
Actually he suggested I replace the cicuit breaker which I did.
Was professional and all...just his company quote book was really high.

He seemed to thing I would need a new compressor. Said I would also
need to replace the dryer and capasitor in order to not void the
warranty on the new compressor.

What did he say in response to question WHY (why was he suggesting
what he was suggesting). That's what is important. What's his
explanation.

So I got to thinking...if I am going to pay for a new cap anyway and
the compressor seems to bee running fine just not starting all the time
well why not replace the cap myself and see if that works....Good Lord
I didn't expect the abuse from a few grumpy blokes here. But then I'm
new to the group...Hey thanks for your advice you were one of the few
who offered something useful.

Capacitors are cheap, really likely worth less than the value of time
that you spent here discussing your question. But this intermittent
situation does not seem like a capacitor problem.

Did you open up your compressor cover, disconnect, etc, did you try
tracing where is electricity with your multimeter etc?

Do you have a schematic of your unit?

Get yourself a multimeter with a clamp ammeter. Try to be systematic,
I do not see evidence of a systematic thought process/investigation yet.

I see some traces of same mentality "let's start replacing stuff" that
we do not like about some paid "servicepersons". I think that your
advantage here could be having time, persistence and a systematic
approach. Try to use this advantage.

His 'advantage' would be to stop listening to wrong advice
from ignorant guessers like you.

I repeat - a bad cap CAN NOT cause the symptoms he described.
It CAN NOT.


i

Ignoramus16532 wrote:
On 19 Jul 2006 19:31:46 -0700, wyredog wrote:
" Professional " wanted to charge me $950 to replace the compressor
(which is under warrranty) and dryer and cap. Schwew...ran the same
stuff by antoher and got a 350 estimate...thought a cap and breaker
were good simple places to start


But what did the professional say, did he give you a coherent
explanation of what he thought was wrong? Did he explain what problems
cause what symptoms?

He may be right, maybe, or maybe he is not, it is good to know
details.

i


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 03:34:21 GMT, wrote:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 03:23:45 +0000 (UTC), Ignoramus16532
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 22:30:30 -0400, Mo Hoaner wrote:

Why are you replacing a capacitor on your heat pump? As a preventative
maintenance measure? Or is the heat pump not working so you thought you'd
take a crap shoot (completely blindly) Start by replacing the thermostat, as
most problems are related to bad thermostats.

He said that his problem is related to a popping 220V breaker. Is a
popping breaker caused by a bad thermostat?

To answer your other question, yes, certain capacitors can retain a charge
that can easily be lethal, and/or remove parts of your body upon contact.
Sometimes getting close enough will do the trick.

As far as "What should I do/not do as I remove the capacitor" goes, the key
words are "do not". You do not know what you are doing. You do not know what
to do. And you do not know why you are doing what you are thinking about
doing.

But would he not be able to obtain good advice? That's why he is
posting here, to understand how to handle capacitors.

It does not take an Einstein to understand what a capacitor is and how
to discharge one that is going to be replaced. An ape can probably be
taught how to discharge capacitors.

i

However, it apparently escapes you that a bad capacitor CAN
NOT cause the symptoms he has.



It did not escape my attention, here's what I said in a previous post:

``But this intermittent situation does not seem like a capacitor
problem.''

i

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 03:35:52 +0000 (UTC), Ignoramus16532
wrote:

On 19 Jul 2006 20:31:23 -0700, wyredog wrote:

"It does not take an Einstein to understand what a capacitor is and how

to discharge one that is going to be replaced. An ape can probably be
taught how to discharge capacitors"

Funny how the same types that would ridicule someone for asking a
question about a device that could hold the potentail to kill...Will
also ridicule anyone who is killed due to ignorance of the device.
(caps)

Does inhaling to much freon make you grumpy and uncooperative...maybe
someone should conduct a study.


Do not get sidetracked, you need to have your problem solved, not
argue with unfriendly people late at night. Drop the hvac newsgroup

Yes, please do.

from the list, if you do not get useful responses, and keep digging
deeper and post to alt.home.repair and rec.crafts.metalworking.

Yes, please do.


You need to call tomorrow and ask the company for a manual, maybe they
will give you one. I am not saying that you can fix any problem, but
you should hope to come across some "troubleshooting checklist" for
your model that you could apply.

i

You could hope to get laughed at, is what.


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Okay...one more time: The professional DID a diagnosis, then gave me a
quote for a new compressor, dryer, and capacitor.

I do not wish to pretend I know what a multi-meter would be telling me.
That is why I had a professional come here. He gave me what seemed
like a really high quote to replace a compressor, etc....($950 mostly
labor)....as I said.

Now I can just shell out lots of money for a new compressor which
doesn't make much sense to me because as I speak the compressor is
cooling my home...Or I can replace a $40 cap first because the prof.
who did the diagnosis said it would need to be replaced if he came to
do the work anyway. Good God what is so hard for "Ma sees me in my
PJ's" to understand about that!

He most likely made a living giving false info to people and ripping
them off becaseu all he seems capable of is redicule to anyone who trys
to tread on his "holy field of expertice"

Capacitors are cheap, really likely worth less than the value of time
that you spent here discussing your question. But this intermittent
situation does not seem like a capacitor problem.

Did you open up your compressor cover, disconnect, etc, did you try
tracing where is electricity with your multimeter etc?

Do you have a schematic of your unit?

Get yourself a multimeter with a clamp ammeter. Try to be systematic,
I do not see evidence of a systematic thought process/investigation yet.

I see some traces of same mentality "let's start replacing stuff" that
we do not like about some paid "servicepersons". I think that your
advantage here could be having time, persistence and a systematic
approach. Try to use this advantage.

i

Ignoramus16532 wrote:
On 19 Jul 2006 19:31:46 -0700, wyredog wrote:
" Professional " wanted to charge me $950 to replace the compressor
(which is under warrranty) and dryer and cap. Schwew...ran the same
stuff by antoher and got a 350 estimate...thought a cap and breaker
were good simple places to start


But what did the professional say, did he give you a coherent
explanation of what he thought was wrong? Did he explain what problems
cause what symptoms?

He may be right, maybe, or maybe he is not, it is good to know
details.

i

pjm, as much as you sound rather unpleasant, I have a feeling that
you actually may know a thing or two about troubleshooting HVAC
equipment. The key word here is "may".

Is there any chance at all that you could help us appreciate the
wisdom and knowledge of your profession, by actually sharing some of
it here, specifically what kinds of issues could cause observed
problems (intermittent breaker popping at startup).

I mean, both great experts as well as ignorant assholes could say
something like "dumbass, you need to talk to professionals". That's an
easy thing to say in all circumstances.

So... How can we know that you are a knowledgeable person in your
field? Can you share with us what is applicable to his case. I would
then be the first to acknowledge the depths of your expertise. I am
not kidding or posturing.

i

On 19 Jul 2006 20:45:56 -0700, wyredog wrote:
Okay...one more time: The professional DID a diagnosis, then gave me a
quote for a new compressor, dryer, and capacitor.

And one more time, WHAT DID HE SAY WHEN YOU ASKED HIM WHY HE THINKS
THAT STUFF NEEDS TO BE REPLACED.

I do not wish to pretend I know what a multi-meter would be telling me.

That's why it should be used to find out.

That is why I had a professional come here. He gave me what seemed
like a really high quote to replace a compressor, etc....($950 mostly
labor)....as I said.

Now I can just shell out lots of money for a new compressor which
doesn't make much sense to me because as I speak the compressor is
cooling my home...Or I can replace a $40 cap first because the prof.
who did the diagnosis said it would need to be replaced if he came to
do the work anyway. Good God what is so hard for "Ma sees me in my
PJ's" to understand about that!

Or you can systematically approach the issue, collect data and form
hypotheses, which you would then test.

He most likely made a living giving false info to people and ripping
them off becaseu all he seems capable of is redicule to anyone who trys
to tread on his "holy field of expertice"

Quite likely, yes, it is very difficult for honest people to stay
competitive in such businesses.

Capacitors are cheap, really likely worth less than the value of time
that you spent here discussing your question. But this intermittent
situation does not seem like a capacitor problem.

Did you open up your compressor cover, disconnect, etc, did you try
tracing where is electricity with your multimeter etc?

Do you have a schematic of your unit?

Get yourself a multimeter with a clamp ammeter. Try to be systematic,
I do not see evidence of a systematic thought process/investigation yet.

I see some traces of same mentality "let's start replacing stuff" that
we do not like about some paid "servicepersons". I think that your
advantage here could be having time, persistence and a systematic
approach. Try to use this advantage.

I think that the above is worth responding to.

i

i

Ignoramus16532 wrote:
On 19 Jul 2006 19:31:46 -0700, wyredog wrote:
" Professional " wanted to charge me $950 to replace the compressor
(which is under warrranty) and dryer and cap. Schwew...ran the same
stuff by antoher and got a 350 estimate...thought a cap and breaker
were good simple places to start


But what did the professional say, did he give you a coherent
explanation of what he thought was wrong? Did he explain what problems
cause what symptoms?

He may be right, maybe, or maybe he is not, it is good to know
details.

i

On 19 Jul 2006 20:45:56 -0700, "wyredog"
wrote:

Okay...one more time: The professional DID a diagnosis, then gave me a
quote for a new compressor, dryer, and capacitor.

And you seem to think you can just try them one at a time and
seem what happens.

Let me explain to you, asshole - he quoted you for a BAD
COMPRESSOR ( a diagnosis I can not confirm or refute with the
absolutely ZERO FACTS presented ). The drier and the cap are
'secondary' to that, and are simply 'always changed with the
compressor. As, in good practice, is the contactor, and the freon.


I do not wish to pretend I know what a multi-meter would be telling me.
That is why I had a professional come here. He gave me what seemed
like a really high quote to replace a compressor, etc....($950 mostly
labor)....as I said.

Now I can just shell out lots of money for a new compressor which
doesn't make much sense to me because as I speak the compressor is
cooling my home...Or I can replace a $40 cap first because the prof.

$ 40 ??????

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!!!


who did the diagnosis said it would need to be replaced if he came to
do the work anyway. Good God what is so hard for "Ma sees me in my
PJ's" to understand about that!

You complete ****ing clueless idiot. I hope he bends you over
TWICE AS HARD when you finally have to call him and say 'When can you
do it ?'.


He most likely made a living giving false info to people and ripping
them off becaseu all he seems capable of is redicule to anyone who trys
to tread on his "holy field of expertice"

Capacitors are cheap, really likely worth less than the value of time
that you spent here discussing your question. But this intermittent
situation does not seem like a capacitor problem.

Did you open up your compressor cover, disconnect, etc, did you try
tracing where is electricity with your multimeter etc?

Do you have a schematic of your unit?

Get yourself a multimeter with a clamp ammeter. Try to be systematic,
I do not see evidence of a systematic thought process/investigation yet.

I see some traces of same mentality "let's start replacing stuff" that
we do not like about some paid "servicepersons". I think that your
advantage here could be having time, persistence and a systematic
approach. Try to use this advantage.

i

Ignoramus16532 wrote:
On 19 Jul 2006 19:31:46 -0700, wyredog wrote:
" Professional " wanted to charge me $950 to replace the compressor
(which is under warrranty) and dryer and cap. Schwew...ran the same
stuff by antoher and got a 350 estimate...thought a cap and breaker
were good simple places to start


But what did the professional say, did he give you a coherent
explanation of what he thought was wrong? Did he explain what problems
cause what symptoms?

He may be right, maybe, or maybe he is not, it is good to know
details.

i


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

"Ignoramus16532" wrote in message
...
pjm, as much as you sound rather unpleasant, I have a feeling that
you actually may know a thing or two about troubleshooting HVAC
equipment. The key word here is "may".

Is there any chance at all that you could help us appreciate the
wisdom and knowledge of your profession, by actually sharing some of
it here, specifically what kinds of issues could cause observed
problems (intermittent breaker popping at startup).

I mean, both great experts as well as ignorant assholes could say
something like "dumbass, you need to talk to professionals". That's an
easy thing to say in all circumstances.

So... How can we know that you are a knowledgeable person in your
field? Can you share with us what is applicable to his case. I would
then be the first to acknowledge the depths of your expertise. I am
not kidding or posturing.

He already did, dumb****. PJM is extremely knowlegible about the proper use
of newsgroups, and specifically alt.hvac. You got good advice, now heed it
and take your hacking whining freakshow out of here.