I have to respectfully disagree with some members of alt.hvac who seem
to imply that any A/C problem requires a "specialist", and that chumps
like those who frequent rec.crafts.metalworking have no business even
looking at A/C problems.

Just one case in point. A year ago my A/C sometimes would not
start. (most of the time it would, but it kept getting worse)

A symptom was that in those cases, it would start if I gently kicked
the outside unit.

After asking on newsgroups, and receiving responses from alt.hvac
members about the need for "experts", and other responses from
alt.home.repair boiling down to "open up the damn thing and use your
multimeter", I opted for the latter.

Opened it up and quickly discovered that, drumroll, the quick
disconnect that connected a 24V line to the contactor, simply broke
from too much vibration and being made cheaply. It still kept contact
most of the time, enough to operate the coil, and when it did not, the
"kick" would bring it back into contact.

Another quick disconnect crimped on, and guess what, the A/C unit is
operating quite trouble free since then.

If I simply called some "service company", I can imagine that the less
scrupulous ones would try to sell me a lot of crap I did not need. The
most optimistic scenario would be that after taking a day off work,
and paying $75 for a service call, a tech would replace that same
quick disconnect for free. Whether that optimistic scenario would be
realized, is not clear.

So, while, no doubt, sometimes learned experts are necessary, they are
not always necessary, and should not be called without some
preliminary investigation.

i

I agree, I kept my old unit running replacing wires and capacitors &
even fans and blowers for 10 years before replacing the whole thing.
I've found that unless you can find an open connection it is likely a
capacitor & often a bad capacitor will fry a wire which will also need
to be replaced. Caps are a good first try, and much cheaper than a
house call. The main thing is that after you run through it with the
multimeter, turn off the power before poking around and still you
should treat it like it is hot.

"Eric in North TX" wrote in message
oups.com...

I agree, I kept my old unit running replacing wires and capacitors &
even fans and blowers for 10 years before replacing the whole thing.
I've found that unless you can find an open connection it is likely a
capacitor & often a bad capacitor will fry a wire which will also need
to be replaced. Caps are a good first try, and much cheaper than a
house call. The main thing is that after you run through it with the
multimeter, turn off the power before poking around and still you
should treat it like it is hot.


Count me in too....My AC stopped working once and in a moment of weakness I
let the wife call a service company out of the newspaper. The guy came over,
poked around inside and out, then declared the compressor dead and started
to sell me a whole new unit.

I told him I'd think about it, then did some poking around of my own.
Re-opened up the panel on the outside unit, looked inside for about 30
seconds and found the problem.

A very unlucky mouse had found his way on top of the start cap and in the
process of frying himself also burnt one wire off its terminal. A couple
minutes of stripping and crimping a new terminal and its been golden
since.....

I really wanted to deliver the smoked mouse carcass to that service company,
I gotta tell ya......That's the last time I'll ever call anyone without at
least LOOKING myself !!!

No guts, No glory, Right?

And of course I did all this with the power OFF....I may have moments of
stupidity but I'm not dumb

Jeff

Never_Enough_Tools wrote:

"Eric in North TX" wrote in message
oups.com...

I agree, I kept my old unit running replacing wires and capacitors &
even fans and blowers for 10 years before replacing the whole thing.
I've found that unless you can find an open connection it is likely a
capacitor & often a bad capacitor will fry a wire which will also need
to be replaced. Caps are a good first try, and much cheaper than a
house call. The main thing is that after you run through it with the
multimeter, turn off the power before poking around and still you
should treat it like it is hot.



Count me in too....My AC stopped working once and in a moment of weakness I
let the wife call a service company out of the newspaper. The guy came over,
poked around inside and out, then declared the compressor dead and started
to sell me a whole new unit.

The last time I calls a "professional," he proceeded to rip the wires
off all the terminal blocks and then pronounced I'd need a whole new
unit. When I asked him to instead put it back the way he'd found it so
I could get a second opinion, he refused, got in his truck, and drove
away.


I told him I'd think about it, then did some poking around of my own.
Re-opened up the panel on the outside unit, looked inside for about 30
seconds and found the problem.

A very unlucky mouse had found his way on top of the start cap and in the
process of frying himself also burnt one wire off its terminal. A couple
minutes of stripping and crimping a new terminal and its been golden
since.....

I really wanted to deliver the smoked mouse carcass to that service company,
I gotta tell ya......That's the last time I'll ever call anyone without at
least LOOKING myself !!!

No guts, No glory, Right?

And of course I did all this with the power OFF....I may have moments of
stupidity but I'm not dumb

Jeff




--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

"CJT" wrote in message
...
The last time I calls a "professional," he proceeded to rip the wires
off all the terminal blocks and then pronounced I'd need a whole new
unit. When I asked him to instead put it back the way he'd found it so
I could get a second opinion, he refused, got in his truck, and drove
away.

No guns in your house?

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 22:03:50 GMT, CJT wrote:
Never_Enough_Tools wrote:

"Eric in North TX" wrote in message
oups.com...

I agree, I kept my old unit running replacing wires and capacitors &
even fans and blowers for 10 years before replacing the whole thing.
I've found that unless you can find an open connection it is likely a
capacitor & often a bad capacitor will fry a wire which will also need
to be replaced. Caps are a good first try, and much cheaper than a
house call. The main thing is that after you run through it with the
multimeter, turn off the power before poking around and still you
should treat it like it is hot.



Count me in too....My AC stopped working once and in a moment of weakness I
let the wife call a service company out of the newspaper. The guy came over,
poked around inside and out, then declared the compressor dead and started
to sell me a whole new unit.

The last time I calls a "professional," he proceeded to rip the wires
off all the terminal blocks and then pronounced I'd need a whole new
unit. When I asked him to instead put it back the way he'd found it so
I could get a second opinion, he refused, got in his truck, and drove
away.

Hm, why did he do it?

i

Ignoramus18860 wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 22:03:50 GMT, CJT wrote:

Never_Enough_Tools wrote:


"Eric in North TX" wrote in message
egroups.com...


I agree, I kept my old unit running replacing wires and capacitors &
even fans and blowers for 10 years before replacing the whole thing.
I've found that unless you can find an open connection it is likely a
capacitor & often a bad capacitor will fry a wire which will also need
to be replaced. Caps are a good first try, and much cheaper than a
house call. The main thing is that after you run through it with the
multimeter, turn off the power before poking around and still you
should treat it like it is hot.



Count me in too....My AC stopped working once and in a moment of weakness I
let the wife call a service company out of the newspaper. The guy came over,
poked around inside and out, then declared the compressor dead and started
to sell me a whole new unit.

The last time I calls a "professional," he proceeded to rip the wires
off all the terminal blocks and then pronounced I'd need a whole new
unit. When I asked him to instead put it back the way he'd found it so
I could get a second opinion, he refused, got in his truck, and drove
away.


Hm, why did he do it?

i

I assume he hoped I'd buy as he proposed.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

CJT wrote:
Never_Enough_Tools wrote:

The last time I calls a "professional," he proceeded to rip the wires
off all the terminal blocks and then pronounced I'd need a whole new
unit. When I asked him to instead put it back the way he'd found it so
I could get a second opinion, he refused, got in his truck, and drove
away.


Note to self:
Take photo of connections before allowing work on air conditioner.

dennis
in nca

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 15:41:16 GMT, Ignoramus18860
wrote:

I have to respectfully disagree with some members of alt.hvac who seem
to imply that any A/C problem requires a "specialist", and that chumps
like those who frequent rec.crafts.metalworking have no business even
looking at A/C problems.

The thing is, these home-moaner questions are along the lines
of someone posting to your group rec.crafts.metalworking and asking 'I
have aluminum siding and I want to install a satellite dish. What
kind of tools should I use ?'. It may have to do with 'working with
metal', in some sense, but it's just not appropriate to the group.


So, while, no doubt, sometimes learned experts are necessary, they are
not always necessary, and should not be called without some
preliminary investigation.

That's fine. I don't think anyone in alt.hvac would argue
against that. Then on the other hand, most of us are real tired of
being instructors for that 'preliminary investigation'.



i

--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 16:07:59 GMT, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 15:41:16 GMT, Ignoramus18860
wrote:

I have to respectfully disagree with some members of alt.hvac who seem
to imply that any A/C problem requires a "specialist", and that chumps
like those who frequent rec.crafts.metalworking have no business even
looking at A/C problems.

The thing is, these home-moaner questions are along the lines
of someone posting to your group rec.crafts.metalworking and asking 'I
have aluminum siding and I want to install a satellite dish. What
kind of tools should I use ?'. It may have to do with 'working with
metal', in some sense, but it's just not appropriate to the group.

Maybe so. In the case of a recent poster, though, his problem was
clearly stated, and sensible questions were asked.


So, while, no doubt, sometimes learned experts are necessary, they are
not always necessary, and should not be called without some
preliminary investigation.

That's fine. I don't think anyone in alt.hvac would argue
against that. Then on the other hand, most of us are real tired of
being instructors for that 'preliminary investigation'.

Well, if you get phone calls like that, I share the sentiment
somewhat. (somewhat being the key word) Phone calls also involve more
liability, e.g if you tell some dumbass to try to use a multimeter and
poke around, and he dies from being electrocuted, you may have some
legal problems.

In case of newsgroups, though, that's exactly what they are designed
for, for people asking questions and getting help. Some people may
start off asking stupid questions, or wrong questions, or not giving
sufficient information, but if they have some capacity to learn, they
can benefit from advice. And people can tell good advice from bad,
too.

And if HVAC experts provide good advice, that would, in my opinion,
only increase respect for their profession.

I had huge luck asking for advice on repairing things (A/C, hot tub,
generator etc), simply because smart people felt like sharing their
knowledge. And in most cases, I started off with more or less complete
ignorance of the issues involved in every particular case.

I wish it was more so for the case of HVAC type questions.

i

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 16:07:59 GMT,
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 15:41:16 GMT, Ignoramus18860
wrote:

I have to respectfully disagree with some members of alt.hvac who seem
to imply that any A/C problem requires a "specialist", and that chumps
like those who frequent rec.crafts.metalworking have no business even
looking at A/C problems.

The thing is, these home-moaner questions are along the lines
of someone posting to your group rec.crafts.metalworking and asking 'I
have aluminum siding and I want to install a satellite dish. What
kind of tools should I use ?'. It may have to do with 'working with
metal', in some sense, but it's just not appropriate to the group.

Yet we answer those questions readily enough, without invective or
demonizing the questioner. Those sort of questions do come up quit
regularly.


So, while, no doubt, sometimes learned experts are necessary, they are
not always necessary, and should not be called without some
preliminary investigation.

That's fine. I don't think anyone in alt.hvac would argue
against that. Then on the other hand, most of us are real tired of
being instructors for that 'preliminary investigation'.


Find another line of work. Perhaps mortician? Business is stiff,
clients are dying to get in to your business and they never talk back.

Gunner




i

The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose
and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology
has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence,
and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years
.. It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints,
and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been
as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,

wrote in
:


The thing is, these home-moaner questions are along the lines
of someone posting to your group rec.crafts.metalworking and asking 'I
have aluminum siding and I want to install a satellite dish. What
kind of tools should I use ?'. It may have to do with 'working with
metal', in some sense, but it's just not appropriate to the group.


Actually, that would be quite appropriate.


That's fine. I don't think anyone in alt.hvac would argue
against that. Then on the other hand, most of us are real tired of
being instructors for that 'preliminary investigation'.

That's easy to fix, if you are tired of it..just don't answer the
post..fairly simple...eh? But no, you have to answer it as smart-assed
as you can, then b*tch about answering it. What a LAMER.


--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
better idiots.

Remove sp to reply via email

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 21:18:30 GMT, Anthony
wrote:

wrote in
:


The thing is, these home-moaner questions are along the lines
of someone posting to your group rec.crafts.metalworking and asking 'I
have aluminum siding and I want to install a satellite dish. What
kind of tools should I use ?'. It may have to do with 'working with
metal', in some sense, but it's just not appropriate to the group.


Actually, that would be quite appropriate.

Actually, no, it would not.


That's fine. I don't think anyone in alt.hvac would argue
against that. Then on the other hand, most of us are real tired of
being instructors for that 'preliminary investigation'.

That's easy to fix, if you are tired of it..just don't answer the
post..fairly simple...eh? But no, you have to answer it as smart-assed
as you can, then b*tch about answering it. What a LAMER.

**** off, bitch-boi.

BTW - you had the SAME choice here - looky looky which option
YOU picked !!

So shut your ****ing mouth and bugger off silently, asshole.


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

wrote in
:


Actually, no, it would not.

Hrmm..I think it would, and I've been participating in this newsgroup for
quite some time. You've been here, what...2 days? How could you possibly
have a clue as to what is appropriate?

**** off, bitch-boi.

Heh...immaturity at it's finest....what..you all of 18 yrs old?..mentally
anyway.


BTW - you had the SAME choice here - looky looky which option
YOU picked !!


Yup, I replied to some immature little ass. Make a capital case out of
it.

So shut your ****ing mouth and bugger off silently, asshole.



Heh..I'll be here giving good, solid, accurate help long after you are
gone off whining somewhere else.
HVAC isn't rocket science, or a black art as you so rudely imply. It's a
fairly simple concept actually. You know this, which is why you do not
want to give aide. If everyone knew how relatively simple it was, there
would be no need for a "Professional" such as claim to be. Btw, nice
little post for a "Professional".



--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
better idiots.

Remove sp to reply via email

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 23:52:13 GMT, Anthony
wrote:

wrote in
:


Actually, no, it would not.

Hrmm..I think it would, and I've been participating in this newsgroup for
quite some time. You've been here, what...2 days? How could you possibly
have a clue as to what is appropriate?

I'm not 'in' your group at ALL, and if you ****s would stop
cross-posting this crap to alt.hvac, I'd be gone from YOUR group.


**** off, bitch-boi.

Heh...immaturity at it's finest....what..you all of 18 yrs old?..mentally
anyway.


BTW - you had the SAME choice here - looky looky which option
YOU picked !!


Yup, I replied to some immature little ass. Make a capital case out of
it.

So shut your ****ing mouth and bugger off silently, asshole.



Heh..I'll be here giving good, solid, accurate help long after you are
gone off whining somewhere else.
HVAC isn't rocket science, or a black art as you so rudely imply. It's a
fairly simple concept actually. You know this, which is why you do not
want to give aide. If everyone knew how relatively simple it was, there
would be no need for a "Professional" such as claim to be. Btw, nice
little post for a "Professional".

--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 21:18:30 GMT, Anthony
wrote:


wrote in
m:



The thing is, these home-moaner questions are along the lines
of someone posting to your group rec.crafts.metalworking and asking 'I
have aluminum siding and I want to install a satellite dish. What
kind of tools should I use ?'. It may have to do with 'working with
metal', in some sense, but it's just not appropriate to the group.



Actually, that would be quite appropriate.


Actually, no, it would not.



That's fine. I don't think anyone in alt.hvac would argue
against that. Then on the other hand, most of us are real tired of
being instructors for that 'preliminary investigation'.

That's easy to fix, if you are tired of it..just don't answer the
post..fairly simple...eh? But no, you have to answer it as smart-assed
as you can, then b*tch about answering it. What a LAMER.


**** off, bitch-boi.

BTW - you had the SAME choice here - looky looky which option
YOU picked !!

So shut your ****ing mouth and bugger off silently, asshole.


What happened ? Your pimp bitch-slapped ya again........
You must be the $29.95 AC check up special bitch...
Replaced how many frederstats on old folks HVAC units today ?
Gee, we must have touched a goonuion nerve.
Scam bagger
Marc

On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 02:01:06 GMT, Marc wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 21:18:30 GMT, Anthony
wrote:


wrote in
:



The thing is, these home-moaner questions are along the lines
of someone posting to your group rec.crafts.metalworking and asking 'I
have aluminum siding and I want to install a satellite dish. What
kind of tools should I use ?'. It may have to do with 'working with
metal', in some sense, but it's just not appropriate to the group.



Actually, that would be quite appropriate.


Actually, no, it would not.



That's fine. I don't think anyone in alt.hvac would argue
against that. Then on the other hand, most of us are real tired of
being instructors for that 'preliminary investigation'.

That's easy to fix, if you are tired of it..just don't answer the
post..fairly simple...eh? But no, you have to answer it as smart-assed
as you can, then b*tch about answering it. What a LAMER.


**** off, bitch-boi.

BTW - you had the SAME choice here - looky looky which option
YOU picked !!

So shut your ****ing mouth and bugger off silently, asshole.


What happened ? Your pimp bitch-slapped ya again........
You must be the $29.95 AC check up special bitch...
Replaced how many frederstats on old folks HVAC units today ?
Gee, we must have touched a goonuion nerve.
Scam bagger
Marc

Go suck your buddy's dick again, faggot.


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Anthony wrote:

wrote in
:



The thing is, these home-moaner questions are along the lines
of someone posting to your group rec.crafts.metalworking and asking 'I
have aluminum siding and I want to install a satellite dish. What
kind of tools should I use ?'. It may have to do with 'working with
metal', in some sense, but it's just not appropriate to the group.



Actually, that would be quite appropriate.



That's fine. I don't think anyone in alt.hvac would argue
against that. Then on the other hand, most of us are real tired of
being instructors for that 'preliminary investigation'.


That's easy to fix, if you are tired of it..just don't answer the
post..fairly simple...eh? But no, you have to answer it as smart-assed
as you can, then b*tch about answering it. What a LAMER.


Indeed. It's a sign of insecurity and lack of manhood.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 00:14:20 GMT, CJT wrote:

Anthony wrote:

wrote in
:



The thing is, these home-moaner questions are along the lines
of someone posting to your group rec.crafts.metalworking and asking 'I
have aluminum siding and I want to install a satellite dish. What
kind of tools should I use ?'. It may have to do with 'working with
metal', in some sense, but it's just not appropriate to the group.



Actually, that would be quite appropriate.



That's fine. I don't think anyone in alt.hvac would argue
against that. Then on the other hand, most of us are real tired of
being instructors for that 'preliminary investigation'.


That's easy to fix, if you are tired of it..just don't answer the
post..fairly simple...eh? But no, you have to answer it as smart-assed
as you can, then b*tch about answering it. What a LAMER.


Indeed. It's a sign of insecurity and lack of manhood.

Indeed, you can blow me.


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

wrote:

On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 00:14:20 GMT, CJT wrote:


Anthony wrote:


wrote in
:




The thing is, these home-moaner questions are along the lines
of someone posting to your group rec.crafts.metalworking and asking 'I
have aluminum siding and I want to install a satellite dish. What
kind of tools should I use ?'. It may have to do with 'working with
metal', in some sense, but it's just not appropriate to the group.



Actually, that would be quite appropriate.




That's fine. I don't think anyone in alt.hvac would argue
against that. Then on the other hand, most of us are real tired of
being instructors for that 'preliminary investigation'.


That's easy to fix, if you are tired of it..just don't answer the
post..fairly simple...eh? But no, you have to answer it as smart-assed
as you can, then b*tch about answering it. What a LAMER.



Indeed. It's a sign of insecurity and lack of manhood.


Indeed, you can blow me.


Not interested. But you can kiss my *ss.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

"CJT" wrote in message
...
Anthony wrote:

wrote in
:



The thing is, these home-moaner questions are along the lines
of someone posting to your group rec.crafts.metalworking and asking 'I
have aluminum siding and I want to install a satellite dish. What
kind of tools should I use ?'. It may have to do with 'working with
metal', in some sense, but it's just not appropriate to the group.



Actually, that would be quite appropriate.



That's fine. I don't think anyone in alt.hvac would argue
against that. Then on the other hand, most of us are real tired of
being instructors for that 'preliminary investigation'.


That's easy to fix, if you are tired of it..just don't answer the
post..fairly simple...eh? But no, you have to answer it as smart-assed
as you can, then b*tch about answering it. What a LAMER.


Indeed. It's a sign of insecurity and lack of manhood.

You'd like a mouthful of manhood?