I only want to use it for a few minutes to run the well pump. I want to
keep it in the basement. I'm assuming that if I open the windows and
start it (assuming its a new generator), I will not be in any major
danger. My basement is 70' x 30' x 10' tall (i.e. huge) and has 4
windows, 2 at each end.

Alternatively I have to trudge outside with it through deep snow
(usually we get blackouts after such a thing), plonk it down and run
the cable through the window, which I do not want to do.

TIA!

Dean

can you vent the exhaust out a window? I mean with some real
redneck-like plumbing and the tractor stack and everything.

I'm only half-kidding.

If at all possible I'd get some flex-metal tubing and endeavor to
lead as much of the exhaust out a window as I could..
Also if you have a chimney opening in your basement then use that it
would have an up draft.

You can do it if your wife isn't home, otherwise, put a fan in the window,
pointing out.
P.S. Be sure to open the window, and turn the fan on.

"dean" wrote in message
oups.com...
I only want to use it for a few minutes to run the well pump. I want to
keep it in the basement. I'm assuming that if I open the windows and
start it (assuming its a new generator), I will not be in any major
danger. My basement is 70' x 30' x 10' tall (i.e. huge) and has 4
windows, 2 at each end.

Alternatively I have to trudge outside with it through deep snow
(usually we get blackouts after such a thing), plonk it down and run
the cable through the window, which I do not want to do.

TIA!

Dean

"Bob" wrote in message
. ..
You can do it if your wife isn't home, otherwise, put a fan in the window,
pointing out.
P.S. Be sure to open the window, and turn the fan on.

What a bone head reply. Don't you realize how much heat he'll be losing?

"PanHandler" wrote in message

What a bone head reply. Don't you realize how much heat he'll be losing?

What a bone head reply. Maybe he lives in Panama or Arizona. Maybe he does
not care about heat loss compared to getting water out of the basement.

running an ICE inside a structure where people live is way too
dangerous - build you a small shed outside and punch a hole through the
wall for the wire connection. Several people lost their lives after
Katrina due to unvented gasoline generators.

I look for small gas leaks with a match - that is a safe practice
compared to running an ICE inside a building where people live - that
is my opinion.

"Commodore Joe Redcloud" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 23:52:18 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:


"PanHandler" wrote in message

What a bone head reply. Don't you realize how much heat he'll be losing?

What a bone head reply. Maybe he lives in Panama or Arizona. Maybe he
does
not care about heat loss compared to getting water out of the basement.


What a bone head reply. The original poster already explained that he gets
very
heavy snowfall. And he's not trying to get water out of the basement. He's
trying to operate his well pump.

My reply was a totally asinine response to a totally stupid question. The OP
should just shoot himself if he's that determined to die. That way, at least
his family would survive and the house wouldn't be as likely to burn down.

Sure why not, people use turkey deep fryers, charcoal bbq grills all the
time inside. They sometimes die, but so what, start a fire on the floor
to keep warm while you are at it.

Why is it so dangerous? I know about CO and fumes. Its not going to be
on when I'm not there. Its not going to run when I'm upstairs. Its just
going to sit there most of the year doing nothing, and get used maybe
once a year for 5 minutes, while I stand there and watch it. What's the
big deal?

The fan mentioned above is a good idea, but it will have to be run by
the generator

Make sure you open the window. LOL
Seriously though, you may want to consider the suggestions above to pipe the
exhaust outside. Even if you don't think so now, there will come a time when
you might want to run it longer, especially if you connect other things to
the generator.

"dean" wrote in message
oups.com...
Why is it so dangerous? I know about CO and fumes. Its not going to be
on when I'm not there. Its not going to run when I'm upstairs. Its just
going to sit there most of the year doing nothing, and get used maybe
once a year for 5 minutes, while I stand there and watch it. What's the
big deal?

The fan mentioned above is a good idea, but it will have to be run by
the generator

dean wrote:
Why is it so dangerous? I know about CO and fumes. Its not going to be
on when I'm not there. Its not going to run when I'm upstairs. Its just
going to sit there most of the year doing nothing, and get used maybe
once a year for 5 minutes, while I stand there and watch it. What's the
big deal?

The fan mentioned above is a good idea, but it will have to be run by
the generator



The CO is one problem.

The gasoline inside the house is another.

and it will be VERY loud, and dark and you will be under a stressfull
situation and won't be able to think straight.

Sounds like a bad combination.

Mark

You can't kid us. The power is out; you have a generator. Of course you
will run it more than just to pump up water pressure. Furnace... lights...
fridge... tv... you know, civilization. Maybe you can figure out something
about the exhaust (and your generator vents the crankcase blow-by gases to
the air intake) but there's no getting around the issue of indoor gasoline
handling which is dangerous enough to nix this idea regardless of the other
details.

You need to figure out a way to run this outside where it's safe and
sufficiently convenient that you will forget these thoughts. Being able to
have all the comforts SAFELY while your neighbors shiver in darkness is
worth a little extra effort to work out the details in advance.

Why is it so dangerous? I know about CO and fumes. Its not going to be
on when I'm not there. Its not going to run when I'm upstairs. Its just
going to sit there most of the year doing nothing, and get used maybe
once a year for 5 minutes, while I stand there and watch it. What's the
big deal?

Sorry, but I have to ask.
Your original question to the group was "Can you run a generator in a
basement with the windows open?" Even a casual read
of that original post and this second one indicate you feel it's not
dangerous.
So why ask at all? Ignore the hundreds of warnings given in so many ways
by so many experts after so many tragedies are reported.
Turn that sucker on.
Unbelievable.

On 29 Dec 2005 15:11:48 -0800, "dean" wrote:

I only want to use it for a few minutes to run the well pump. I want to
keep it in the basement. I'm assuming that if I open the windows and
start it (assuming its a new generator), I will not be in any major
danger. My basement is 70' x 30' x 10' tall (i.e. huge) and has 4
windows, 2 at each end.

Alternatively I have to trudge outside with it through deep snow
(usually we get blackouts after such a thing), plonk it down and run
the cable through the window, which I do not want to do.

I don't know what's come over the group today. Usually they warn
people like you about imminent death. So I'm going to bring it up
and wait for someone else to say what differentiates this case from
all the others where death was abig risk.

No one even said to get a CO detector.

But I still have doubt about the fan to do anything substantial, and
the gases in the basement will probably rise to upper areas of the
house.

I had an old outboard motor I was repairing and testing. I Put a
sawhorse in the bathtub and mouted the engine to that . I starte a 21
inch fan blowing out from teh bathroorm and another pretty big fan
blowing in the same direction in the bathroom door. I started the
engine and within 5 seconds the room was filled with smoke. and the
fans were I think continuing to fall behind in blowing out the air.
My 5 or 10 second test was enough that I took it out on Jamaica Bay.

Now it made a lot of smoke because iirc it was a two-cycle engine, and
it was old, but that has nothing to do with the inability of the fans
to remove the exahaust gases.\

TIA!

Dean


Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.

Now mm why would he want a Co detector, More money and alot of work to
hook it up like a gen, and with all that noise you wont hear it anyway.
I know my neighbors lawnmower caught fire, oh but this is a generator,
its better.

Maybe Nick will be along to help you with Cogen.

Ok here's the deal. I have another generator, which runs the rest of my
house. Its a honda 2000i, I can't hear it from the house when I run it
in the garage with the door open. I wired it up to a transfer switch
with 6 circuits and it works perfectly.

Problem is, it does not have 220V. The only thing in my house that
needs that is the well pump. And I dunno about you, but water is the
MOST important thing to me after a day of blackout.

Hence my original question. I am here getting opinions and will act on
them when this thread is done. I know for sure I can run my 2000i in
the basement and make zero smoke and just a little smell. I just need a
220V generator. I dont see the big deal about running it for a moment -
after all how long does it take a well pump to provide 100 galons?

dean

dean wrote:

Ok here's the deal. I have another generator, which runs the rest of my
house. Its a honda 2000i, I can't hear it from the house when I run it
in the garage with the door open. I wired it up to a transfer switch
with 6 circuits and it works perfectly.

Problem is, it does not have 220V. The only thing in my house that
needs that is the well pump. And I dunno about you, but water is the
MOST important thing to me after a day of blackout.

Hence my original question. I am here getting opinions and will act on
them when this thread is done. I know for sure I can run my 2000i in
the basement and make zero smoke and just a little smell. I just need a
220V generator. I dont see the big deal about running it for a moment -
after all how long does it take a well pump to provide 100 galons?

dean

Why not just put a transformer on the feed from the other generator
(assuming it has enough excess capacity for "a moment" of pumping)?

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

"dean" wrote in message
oups.com...
I only want to use it for a few minutes to run the well pump. I want to
keep it in the basement. I'm assuming that if I open the windows and
start it (assuming its a new generator), I will not be in any major
danger. My basement is 70' x 30' x 10' tall (i.e. huge) and has 4
windows, 2 at each end.

You are going to do it anyhow, and you want someone to tell you that it is
okay. That way it isn't your fault.

Its a stupid thing to do and you know it. Sure, the odds are you will get
away with it, but in view of the potential downside....

dean wrote:
I only want to use it for a few minutes to run the well pump. I want to
keep it in the basement. I'm assuming that if I open the windows and
start it (assuming its a new generator), I will not be in any major
danger. My basement is 70' x 30' x 10' tall (i.e. huge) and has 4
windows, 2 at each end.

Alternatively I have to trudge outside with it through deep snow
(usually we get blackouts after such a thing), plonk it down and run
the cable through the window, which I do not want to do.

TIA!

Dean

Sure no problem and when the gas gets low be sure an use a match to
check the level in the tank. I've seen the results of what you are
asking about destroy a home not to mention the effects it had on the
family involved. They survived but never recovered.

Its a good sized basement, but look at it this way...

How much is your life worth??? You want to run
exaust fumes through some tubing out of the house?
Bad idea. What happens if snow plugs up your home made
tube. In no time you can get carbon monoxide poisoning
down there and we'll read about you in the paper.

Have fun storing GAS in the basement too. That's one
the insurance company would love. Gas vapors and
a furnace or boiler...

Seriously if you have to run this pump on a regular basis
either get a batter backup or make some sort of semi
perminant enclosure for this generator OUTSIDE.

Its not even remotely a good idea to risk your life
for something so trivial.

Are you trolling or serious... Thats nice you know your honda will
just smell a little and make little noise down there. If your running
any gas engines down there your out of your mind!

If you can, modify your will to leave me the 2000i when your overcome
by
CO down there. Run the 2000I in the garage and run the 220v unit
right next to it with a real long plug.

Or just get a backup 110v pump... Or get an emergency battery operated
one.

I doubt it has the power to run a well pump, otherwise that would be
the solution.

Cant we have a conversation here without assuming everyone is a
complete ****wit? People aren't necessarily stupid just because they
are strangers online.

Boces - how can I put in a 110V or backup well pump, 200 feet below
surface? Run a new system next to it? Dig a second hole? Come on!
Checking the gas level? When I only use it 5 minutes a year, it will
never run out! What if my exhaust fan is blocked by snow? Jeez how
could I ever notice that one, after all I'm only standing right next to
the thing, as mentioned! And so on....

I'm not asking for reassurance, I'm looking for opinions from smart
people who may have alternative ideas. That's where google groups is
fantastic. I've use this group to install a generator transfer switch,
fix my fridge, fix the garage door opener, untold great advice. Its the
patronizing dickheads that make it all tedious to wade through all
their waffly 'fatherly advice, son'.

So far, the soundest advice I think I'll go along with is to run the
generator in the garage (YES OPEN!) and run a cable down to the
basement,

Thanks for all the good advice everyone.

Dean

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 16:28:44 -0800, dean wrote:

Why is it so dangerous? I know about CO and fumes. Its not going to be
on when I'm not there. Its not going to run when I'm upstairs. Its just
going to sit there most of the year doing nothing, and get used maybe
once a year for 5 minutes, while I stand there and watch it. What's the
big deal?

No big deal. Go do it, you dumb ****ing halfwit. The rest of us will
laugh at you on the evening news.

--
If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
Linux Registered User #327951

On 29 Dec 2005 22:15:34 -0800, "dean" wrote:

Cant we have a conversation here without assuming everyone is a
complete ****wit?

I would think that the word you want is dimwit.

That word makes sense, means something.

Your word is inane, and vulgar for the sake of being vulgar.

And when you come here for free answers, you should tolerate when
people suspect you are a dimwit**. You certainly shouldn't escalate
what is only his suspicion for the sake of your own safety to gutter
language.

**Whether they have reason or not. But actually there are reasons.
After all, you only suspect your current generator can't run the pump,
when you have all the parts to find out for a fact if it can or not.
And you think you can blow the exhaust gas out***,

***The fans will blow out a little exhaust gas and the rest won't be.
How many times will it have to blow out the entire volume of basement
gas to blow out 90% of the exhaust gas? I don't know but quite a few.

and what follows:

Its a stupid thing to do and you know it. Sure, the odds are you will get
away with it, but in view of the potential downside....

And the downside to his family, and anyone else who might be there.


Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 18:28:10 -0600, (m Ransley)
wrote:

Sure why not, people use turkey deep fryers, charcoal bbq grills all the

OOps. What's wrong with turkey dep fryers?

time inside. They sometimes die, but so what, start a fire on the floor
to keep warm while you are at it.


Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.

dean wrote:

I only want to use it for a few minutes to run the well pump. I want to
keep it in the basement. I'm assuming that if I open the windows and
start it (assuming its a new generator), I will not be in any major
danger...

Unbolting the muffler and attaching a stainless steel flex hose to its port
and piping that out a window would be less messy.

Nick

dean wrote:

Ok here's the deal. I have another generator, which runs the rest of my
house. Its a honda 2000i... Problem is, it does not have 220V.

How about a 2:1 transformer? Startup might still be a problem...
It might help to start a motor with a flywheel first, or use a surplus
120 to 240 V motor-generator or a 120 V motor connected to a 240 V motor
with a small 2:1 field transformer.

I know for sure I can run my 2000i in the basement and make zero smoke
and just a little smell.

I've looked at the EU2000 exhaust port. It should be fairly easy to
remove the muffler and attach a stainless steel flex pipe with
an oval flange with a hole in it and the two original bolts.

Nick

What does the well pump pull, a step up 120-240 transformer is cheap,
gee I have about 6 from living in europe . What is surge capicity on the
2000. But you are pretty careless to run a gas motor in the house.

perhaps instead, see if your pump can be more safely plugged into a
110v inverter you run off your car's battery?

m Ransley
Dec 29, 10:10 pm show options

"Maybe Nick will be along to help you with Cogen. "

Now that's a good one! LOL!

wrote:

"Maybe Nick will be along to help you with Cogen. "

Now that's a good one! LOL!

Cogen saves half the fuel's heating value, which US utilities normally waste.
Not so in the rest of the world, nor in the US in the 1930s. Many buildings
were heated this way before utilities stole the show. Small cogen is coming
back big as natural gas CHP, with plans for Honda engines heating water in
10,000-20,000 UK kitchens.

EU2000 cogen makes sense to me, piping the exhaust into the top of a $200
natural gas water heater, esp. if we can replace mechanical parts when they
wear out (a $129 cylinder assembly?) and use a propane or NG conversion kit
and a larger oil sump to lengthen the 100 hour oil change interval.

I haven't looked at the EU2000 air intake. Can we put the water heater in
a small plastic film room in the basement and depressurize that room with
a pipe to the EU2000 air intake? That would help assure that any exhaust
gas that leaks from the pipe connection at the bottom of the water heater
to the outdoors ends up outdoors, while the heat from the engine ends up
in the basement.

Having done MIL-217 and FMECA and telco reliabiility studies, I don't worry
much that the inverter will fail quickly. I assume it's well-designed, with
electrolytics sized for ripple currents, moderate junction temps, and so on.

When will Mr. Wizzard try plugging his EU2000 into a wall socket? :-)

If we make electricity with fossil fuels, why waste 80% of the heat?

Nick

"dean" wrote in message
oups.com...
Why is it so dangerous? I know about CO and fumes. Its not going to be
on when I'm not there. Its not going to run when I'm upstairs. Its just
going to sit there most of the year doing nothing, and get used maybe
once a year for 5 minutes, while I stand there and watch it. What's the
big deal?

The fan mentioned above is a good idea, but it will have to be run by
the generator


A serious reply.

I once tried to use my leaf blower to clean the garage with the 16' door
open. About 45 seconds into the project all my smoke alarms were screaming.
The one in the garage set them all off.

Many people die each year from using propane or gasoline engines in enclosed
areas. Don't be one of them. Build or buy a generator enclosure, set it up
outside as needed or don't use it.

Colbyt

Nick its closer to 1/3 heat loss.

Pipe it to the top, no the bottom is better as you have no condensation
provisions in your pipeing, it could fill with water ruining the motor.
Best is a constant angle down from exaust port.

Depressurise the room, exuast the gas inside the building, a rube
mononberg idea. Lets see, insurance would be cancelled and an inspector
would deem house uninhabitable. Your idea will kill people. Also a fire
hazzard of running a gen inside, but you never heard of leaking carbs,
cracked fuel lines, stuck floats, gas fumes, spilt gasolene etc etc etc.
Gasolene anything, does not belong inside.

On 2005/12/30 3:23 AM, "mm" wrote:

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 18:28:10 -0600, (m Ransley)
wrote:

Sure why not, people use turkey deep fryers, charcoal bbq grills all the

OOps. What's wrong with turkey dep fryers?

Nothing, if used properly. Part of that is outside and well away from any
structure. Every year, there are news reports of some idiot who burned down
his house using a turkey fryer in a garage or next to a house. The danger is
that the oil can easily catch fire and flash over.

There may be different types of turkey fryers. The ones popular around here
run on propane and can easily overheat the oil.

dean wrote:

I only want to use it for a few minutes to run the well pump. I want to
keep it in the basement. I'm assuming that if I open the windows and
start it (assuming its a new generator), I will not be in any major
danger. My basement is 70' x 30' x 10' tall (i.e. huge) and has 4
windows, 2 at each end.

Alternatively I have to trudge outside with it through deep snow
(usually we get blackouts after such a thing), plonk it down and run
the cable through the window, which I do not want to do.

TIA!

Dean

I hereby submit your name as a potential Darwin Award nominee.
Eric

"CJT" wrote in message
...
dean wrote:

Ok here's the deal. I have another generator, which runs the rest of my
house. Its a honda 2000i, I can't hear it from the house when I run it
in the garage with the door open. I wired it up to a transfer switch
with 6 circuits and it works perfectly.

Problem is, it does not have 220V. The only thing in my house that
needs that is the well pump. And I dunno about you, but water is the
MOST important thing to me after a day of blackout.

Hence my original question. I am here getting opinions and will act on
them when this thread is done. I know for sure I can run my 2000i in
the basement and make zero smoke and just a little smell. I just need a
220V generator. I dont see the big deal about running it for a moment -
after all how long does it take a well pump to provide 100 galons?

dean

Why not just put a transformer on the feed from the other generator
(assuming it has enough excess capacity for "a moment" of pumping)?

You have got to be kidding. The EU2000 just barely starts my freezer. It
is going to start a well pump?!

On 29 Dec 2005 15:25:20 -0800, wrote:

If at all possible I'd get some flex-metal tubing and endeavor to
lead as much of the exhaust out a window as I could..
Also if you have a chimney opening in your basement then use that it
would have an up draft.

Service garages do thsi sort of thing all the time when they work on
cars. In fact most have a hole in the door or wall where a steel flex
pipe carries the exhaust outside. Of course they only run the cars
for a short time.

wrote:

When will Mr. Wizzard try plugging his EU2000 into a wall socket? :-)

Nick, I think that's one experiment that you should try. With your own
generator.