wrote in message
...
Rich256 wrote:

Yeah, Nick was way off...

Would you have any evidence for this article of faith?

Nick


Yes, Faith in Newton. Not in you.

This is funny, nicks mythical magical 5.9 cent kwh. and he has no
numbers

"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
This is funny, nicks mythical magical 5.9 cent kwh. and he has no
numbers


He says you gotta have faith!! Obviously never took a physics course where
you have to prove your work - just an answer is not adequate even if it is
correct.

m Ransley wrote:

This is funny, nicks mythical magical 5.9 cent kwh. and he has no numbers

You've seen 'em twice now.

Nick

wrote in message
...
m Ransley wrote:

This is funny, nicks mythical magical 5.9 cent kwh. and he has no numbers

You've seen 'em twice now.

Nick


You have seen my calculations twice showing that it would be at least 60
cent per kwh but you never showed how you arrived at your numbers.

Rich256 wrote:
wrote in message
m Ransley wrote:

This is funny, nicks mythical magical 5.9 cent kwh. and he has no numbers

You've seen 'em twice now.

You have seen my calculations twice showing that it would be at least 60
cent per kwh but you never showed how you arrived at your numbers.

Wrong. For the third time:

Article 106218 of alt.energy.homepower:
From:
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair,alt.energy.homepower
Subject: Honda eu 2000 Generator
Date: 7 Dec 2005 07:44:20 -0500
Organization: Villanova University

With a 125K Btu/gallon high heating value and a 10,000 hour engine lifetime,
Honda EU2000 cogen looks less economical: if we burn 1.08 gallons of gasoline
with a fuel value of 135K Btu in 4 hours at the 1600 W rated load and make
6.4 kWh (21.8K Btu) of electricity and 113.2K Btu of heat (another 33.2 kWh,
ie 39.6 kWh total) and the heat replaces electric resistance and the Honda
costs $899 (mayberrys.com) and wear adds $0.09/h, ie 5.6 cents/kWh, this kind
of cogen only seems to make sense at an off-road gas price of $1.75/gallon if
electricity costs more than 100x$1.75/39.6+5.6 = 10.7 cents/kWh.

Nick

dean wrote:
Cant we have a conversation here without assuming everyone is a
complete ****wit? People aren't necessarily stupid just because they
are strangers online.

Boces - how can I put in a 110V or backup well pump, 200 feet below
surface? Run a new system next to it? Dig a second hole? Come on!
Checking the gas level? When I only use it 5 minutes a year, it will
never run out! What if my exhaust fan is blocked by snow? Jeez how
could I ever notice that one, after all I'm only standing right next to
the thing, as mentioned! And so on....

I'm not asking for reassurance, I'm looking for opinions from smart
people who may have alternative ideas. That's where google groups is
fantastic. I've use this group to install a generator transfer switch,
fix my fridge, fix the garage door opener, untold great advice. Its the
patronizing dickheads that make it all tedious to wade through all
their waffly 'fatherly advice, son'.

So far, the soundest advice I think I'll go along with is to run the
generator in the garage (YES OPEN!) and run a cable down to the
basement,

Thanks for all the good advice everyone.

Dean

Contractors ran a gas masonry saw in our basement while we were out. I
have no idea how long it was running for, possibly on and off most of
the day. They would have had, at most, a small window open and a
direct-to-the-outdoors door open. When we got home there was a distinct
smell of gas and fumes in the kitchen, directly above where they were
working, that took a day or two to dissipate, and of course a stronger
smell in the basement. It must have been miserable while they were
there. Of course that would have been a two-stroke, I presume.

Just a data point for your consideration.

Chip C
Toronto

wrote in message
...

Wrong. For the third time:



Article 106218 of alt.energy.homepower:
From:
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair,alt.energy.homepower
Subject: Honda eu 2000 Generator
Date: 7 Dec 2005 07:44:20 -0500
Organization: Villanova University

With a 125K Btu/gallon high heating value and a 10,000 hour engine
lifetime,
Honda EU2000 cogen looks less economical: if we burn 1.08 gallons of
gasoline
with a fuel value of 135K Btu in 4 hours at the 1600 W rated load and make
6.4 kWh (21.8K Btu) of electricity and 113.2K Btu of heat (another 33.2
kWh,
ie 39.6 kWh total) and the heat replaces electric resistance and the Honda
costs $899 (mayberrys.com) and wear adds $0.09/h, ie 5.6 cents/kWh, this
kind
of cogen only seems to make sense at an off-road gas price of $1.75/gallon
if
electricity costs more than 100x$1.75/39.6+5.6 = 10.7 cents/kWh.

Ah, so you are referring to a post in a completely different thread on a
different subject and including the heat as being useful.

It would have helped if you had made a reference.

We don't want the heat, only the 6.4 kWh of electricty.

Rich256 wrote:

We don't want the heat, only the 6.4 kWh of electricty.

Wasting 84% of the fuel's heating value is your choice.

Nick

At 3600 rpm full operating load 1600w the EU 2000 does not last 10000
hrs.
The EU is load RPM dependant. At under 700w output it turns near 1800
rpm giving it a average 10000 hr life span. People using the gen
conservativly averaging 3- 800 watts experiance up to 15000 hrs, but not
at full rated load of 3600 rpm 1600 watts. At extreme low load on
constant operation of 900 rpm unit life can be easily a minimum of 50000
hrs. Use-Load-Rpm are your criteria to determine unit life.

$0.059c kwh is still your dream. If it were true Nobody would consider
a utility co. Everyone , every county would be off grid. Im .125 kwh
soon going to .135kwh. If I could do it for $0.059cent kwh with an EU, I
would be rich selling power to everyone and anyone

"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
At 3600 rpm full operating load 1600w the EU 2000 does not last 10000
hrs.
The EU is load RPM dependant. At under 700w output it turns near 1800
rpm giving it a average 10000 hr life span. People using the gen
conservativly averaging 3- 800 watts experiance up to 15000 hrs, but not
at full rated load of 3600 rpm 1600 watts. At extreme low load on
constant operation of 900 rpm unit life can be easily a minimum of 50000
hrs. Use-Load-Rpm are your criteria to determine unit life.

$0.059c kwh is still your dream. If it were true Nobody would consider
a utility co. Everyone , every county would be off grid. Im .125 kwh
soon going to .135kwh. If I could do it for $0.059cent kwh with an EU, I
would be rich selling power to everyone and anyone


Did you look at how he comes up with the 5.9c? What I see that he is saying
is that the Generator puts out 6.4 kWH in 4 hours which can be converted to
21.8K BTU. The generator itself puts out 113.2 kWH of heat. It takes 33.2
kWH of electricity to create that much heat. Therefore the generator is
putting out the equivalent of 6.4 + 33.2 = 39.6 kWh. It's 100% efficient
(creating heat but not electricity)!! So even using his low price of $1.75
a gallon, the electricity still costs at least 31.5c per kWH.

wrote in message
...
Rich256 wrote:

We don't want the heat, only the 6.4 kWh of electricty.

Wasting 84% of the fuel's heating value is your choice.

Nick

We do it all the time with all our vehicles and power plants.
You kept saying you were going to produce electricity at that price.

Heat is hardly something we want when the outside temperature is in the
90s!! Read the Subject line. He is not asking for heat.

m Ransley wrote:

At 3600 rpm full operating load 1600w the EU 2000 does not last 10000 hrs.

Would you have any evidencde fot this article of faith? :-)

Nick

Rich256 wrote:

We don't want the heat, only the 6.4 kWh of electricty.

Wasting 84% of the fuel's heating value is your choice.

A BAD choice :-)

We do it all the time with all our vehicles and power plants.
You kept saying you were going to produce electricity at that price.

Wrong.

Nick

Wow I had no idea they could last even 1/4 as long as those numbers
you're throwing out there. 50K Hrs at idle speed still seems like a
heck of a ot for a small engine.

Nick wake the F up, 10000 hrs at 3600 rpm full load throttle is like
taking a honda car running it on a race track at apx 130 mph , motors
dont last at high rpm full load. At that load and rpm the Honda car
would last if you are real real lucky 1000 hrs, do you thing the EU has
some "magic" motor Honda wont put in a car, Get it long life users run
light loads, lower rpm.
And your electric costs for an EU, totaly bull crap, unrealistic
stupidity.

According to Keith :
On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 21:15:24 -0800, squarei4dtoolguy wrote:

dean wrote:
I only want to use it for a few minutes to run the well pump. I want to
keep it in the basement. I'm assuming that if I open the windows and
start it (assuming its a new generator), I will not be in any major
danger.

It doesn't matter how big your basement is. One gallon of gasoline
vaporised is roughly equivalent to 10 sticks of dynamite. Enough to
open all of the windows in your house with tremendous heat.

Only if perfectly mixed with air. I have an "infinite" supply of gas in
my basement too, perfectly mixed with air will make the gasoline look
petty. Many have 275 gallons of fuel oil in their basements as well as 40
gallons of gaoline sitting in their driveway too. There are very good
reasons not to do this, but an explosion is way down the list.

While you're not likely to see your basement gallon of gasoline completely
vaporized, there is a substantial difference between the behaviour/safety
of various fuels.

The vapor pressure of an open can of gasoline is perfectly capable of
producing an explosive mixture in an unvented/enclosed space all by
itself. Fuel oil won't. Nor will gasoline sitting in a car on a driveway.

A natural gas supply in a basement, of course _can_ produce an explosive
mixture in an enclosed space. As can propane. But it's rather better
secured than a random can of gasoline.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

"Chris Lewis" wrote in message
...
According to Keith :
On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 21:15:24 -0800, squarei4dtoolguy wrote:

dean wrote:
I only want to use it for a few minutes to run the well pump. I want
to
keep it in the basement. I'm assuming that if I open the windows and
start it (assuming its a new generator), I will not be in any major
danger.

It doesn't matter how big your basement is. One gallon of gasoline
vaporised is roughly equivalent to 10 sticks of dynamite. Enough to
open all of the windows in your house with tremendous heat.

Only if perfectly mixed with air. I have an "infinite" supply of gas in
my basement too, perfectly mixed with air will make the gasoline look
petty. Many have 275 gallons of fuel oil in their basements as well as
40
gallons of gaoline sitting in their driveway too. There are very good
reasons not to do this, but an explosion is way down the list.

While you're not likely to see your basement gallon of gasoline completely
vaporized, there is a substantial difference between the behaviour/safety
of various fuels.

The vapor pressure of an open can of gasoline is perfectly capable of
producing an explosive mixture in an unvented/enclosed space all by
itself. Fuel oil won't. Nor will gasoline sitting in a car on a
driveway.

A natural gas supply in a basement, of course _can_ produce an explosive
mixture in an enclosed space. As can propane. But it's rather better
secured than a random can of gasoline.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

Not only that just a couple minutes of operation really stinks up the
basement filling it with exhause fumes. Unless you have a good exhaust fan
it will stay there. Try running it in a closed garage for just a short
time. Does it really need to be in the basement? Build a little enclosure
close to the house.