Home-moaners - wanna know why you 'takes your chances' buying HVAC
over the Internet and 'DIY'ing' ???? Read on.

On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 20:48:22 GMT, "Travis Jordan"
wrote:

Bill wrote:
In article ,
"R. Pierce Butler" wrote:

The proprietor of a Pinellas, Florida based air conditioning
contracting company has been recently charged and arrested on two
felony counts of grand theft in conjunction with operation of an
unlicensed air conditioning company.

Because he was operating without a license or what?

http://stateson.net/ac/home_ac_fl_complaint.txt


Geez, what a nitpicker !!!!!!

http://stateson.net/ac/

I suppose he's going to claim 'coil damage' on THIS ???
There's just no telling with some people ....

http://stateson.net/ac/DCP_0014.JPG

Pick Pick Pick !!!!

http://stateson.net/ac/DCP_0015.JPG

Hey, a little hammer action and it'll be OK !!!

http://stateson.net/ac/DCP_0016.JPG

And a little silicone, good as new !!!

http://stateson.net/ac/DCP_0017.JPG

This probably made him feel better !

http://stateson.net/ac/exhibit_a.doc

"Mr. Stateson,
Thank you for contacting Goodman Mfg. According to the information
provided, this unit was purchased via the Internet. Our warranty
states that we do not honor any warranty on products purchased over
the Internet. Your current situation is one example of why Goodman
does not recommend units being purchased over the Internet .

Please contact HomeAC.net for any further assistance.

Thanks

Byron Kirkwood
Goodman Consumer Affairs"




--

Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

wrote:

"Mr. Stateson,
Thank you for contacting Goodman Mfg. According to the information
provided, this unit was purchased via the Internet. Our warranty
states that we do not honor any warranty on products purchased over
the Internet. Your current situation is one example of why Goodman
does not recommend units being purchased over the Internet .

Please contact HomeAC.net for any further assistance.

Thanks

Byron Kirkwood
Goodman Consumer Affairs"






Yeah sure, whatever. The whiny HVAC "techs" will continue to fight their
losing battle against the day A/C installs are as simple as plugging in
a toaster. I know a number of folks who successfully installed
mini-splits, and the day is coming when the larger stuff will be
plug-n-play too.

The HVAC industry only has itself to blame as their ranks are full of
no-account, lazy, dumb-ass techs who charge full fare for sub-standard
work. They act like carrying a hose set entitles them to neurosurgeon
pay, when many can't multiply 12x12 in their head!

"Tim Killian" wrote in message
...
wrote:

"Mr. Stateson,
Thank you for contacting Goodman Mfg. According to the information
provided, this unit was purchased via the Internet. Our warranty
states that we do not honor any warranty on products purchased over
the Internet. Your current situation is one example of why Goodman
does not recommend units being purchased over the Internet .

Please contact HomeAC.net for any further assistance.

Thanks

Byron Kirkwood
Goodman Consumer Affairs"






Yeah sure, whatever. The whiny HVAC "techs" will continue to fight their
losing battle against the day A/C installs are as simple as plugging in a
toaster. I know a number of folks who successfully installed mini-splits,
and the day is coming when the larger stuff will be plug-n-play too.

I guess you haven't seen the new stuff thats been federaly mandated and
coming soon to an HVAC tech near you.
13 SEER split heat system pumps are not exactly "plug and play" as you
insinuate.

The HVAC industry only has itself to blame as their ranks are full of
no-account, lazy, dumb-ass techs who charge full fare for sub-standard
work.

Pot, kettle, black???

They act like carrying a hose set entitles them to neurosurgeon pay, when
many can't multiply 12x12 in their head!

I guess you must use the lowest bidder neurosurgen?? Or do you do your own??

On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 14:31:00 -0700, Tim Killian
wrote:

wrote:

"Mr. Stateson,
Thank you for contacting Goodman Mfg. According to the information
provided, this unit was purchased via the Internet. Our warranty
states that we do not honor any warranty on products purchased over
the Internet. Your current situation is one example of why Goodman
does not recommend units being purchased over the Internet .

Please contact HomeAC.net for any further assistance.

Thanks

Byron Kirkwood
Goodman Consumer Affairs"






Yeah sure, whatever. The whiny HVAC "techs" will continue to fight their
losing battle against the day A/C installs are as simple as plugging in
a toaster. I know a number of folks who successfully installed
mini-splits, and the day is coming when the larger stuff will be
plug-n-play too.

The HVAC industry only has itself to blame as their ranks are full of
no-account, lazy, dumb-ass techs who charge full fare for sub-standard
work. They act like carrying a hose set entitles them to neurosurgeon
pay, when many can't multiply 12x12 in their head!

Go **** yourself.

Better yet, go buy an HVAC system on the Internet, and ****
yourself with IT !!!

I hope you get a NICE SPECIAL one, like the other guy !


--

Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

In article ,
wrote:

"Mr. Stateson,
Thank you for contacting Goodman Mfg. According to the information
provided, this unit was purchased via the Internet. Our warranty
states that we do not honor any warranty on products purchased over
the Internet. Your current situation is one example of why Goodman
does not recommend units being purchased over the Internet .

Please contact HomeAC.net for any further assistance.

LOL! Yeah baby! *snap*

--
Paul's cat got a furball and kept saying weasel's name.

*Hack* *Hack* *hack*

wrote:
Home-moaners - wanna know why you 'takes your chances' buying HVAC
over the Internet and 'DIY'ing' ???? Read on.

Now, all of a sudden, you're concerned about homeowners?

R

In article ,
Tim Killian wrote:

Yeah sure, whatever. The whiny HVAC "techs" will continue to fight their
losing battle against the day A/C installs are as simple as plugging in
a toaster. I know a number of folks who successfully installed
mini-splits, and the day is coming when the larger stuff will be
plug-n-play too.

The HVAC industry only has itself to blame as their ranks are full of
no-account, lazy, dumb-ass techs who charge full fare for sub-standard
work. They act like carrying a hose set entitles them to neurosurgeon
pay, when many can't multiply 12x12 in their head!

And if I had a dollar for every moaner who has told the story of having
someone other than a legit contractor do it because it was a dollar
cheaper....

You shouldn't hiring techs. You should be hiring licensed contractors.

Most moaners problems stem from hiring the unqualified. But hey. You get
what you pay for.

--
Paul's cat got a furball and kept saying weasel's name.

*Hack* *Hack* *hack*

They act like carrying a hose set entitles them to neurosurgeon pay, when
many can't multiply 12x12 in their head!

I guess you must use the lowest bidder neurosurgen?? Or do you do your
own??

No, the HMO does that for you.

Amy.

On 3 Dec 2005 14:27:24 -0800, "RicodJour"
wrote:

wrote:
Home-moaners - wanna know why you 'takes your chances' buying HVAC
over the Internet and 'DIY'ing' ???? Read on.

Now, all of a sudden, you're concerned about homeowners?

R

Not even a little bit. Just sharing some info someone else
posted.


--

Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Whats a matter pjm nobody will hire ya

Bill wrote:
In article ,
Tim Killian wrote:


Yeah sure, whatever. The whiny HVAC "techs" will continue to fight their
losing battle against the day A/C installs are as simple as plugging in
a toaster. I know a number of folks who successfully installed
mini-splits, and the day is coming when the larger stuff will be
plug-n-play too.

The HVAC industry only has itself to blame as their ranks are full of
no-account, lazy, dumb-ass techs who charge full fare for sub-standard
work. They act like carrying a hose set entitles them to neurosurgeon
pay, when many can't multiply 12x12 in their head!


And if I had a dollar for every moaner who has told the story of having
someone other than a legit contractor do it because it was a dollar
cheaper....

You shouldn't hiring techs. You should be hiring licensed contractors.

Most moaners problems stem from hiring the unqualified. But hey. You get
what you pay for.


Oh yes, the "licensed, insured" contractor. You must mean the guys who
have a salesman in the office and and a girl who actually answers their
phones? I've dealt with their ilk on several occasions and they seem to
have the same dumb asses working for them as well. Ex.: A $6K heat pump
system they installed stops working after two weeks, so they send out
Mr. Earring. Earring boy replaces a circuit board, the same one, 4 times
over a two week period, and then tells me that my attic is too hot, and
they're not going to replace it under warranty again. I call Mr. Fatass,
the owner of HVAC Supremo and tell him that he needs to send out a
competent tech, one who at least finished high school. They send out
their "best man" and he determines the problem is a short in some god
damned outside wiring. He is gracious enough to apologize for my lost
time, and admits that half the guys in his shop are total ****-ups.

So maybe I'm one of those "home-moaners" who expects to get what they
paid for. Pardon the hell out of me, Mr. HVAC asshole.

On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 17:12:41 -0700, Tim Killian
wrote:

Bill wrote:
In article ,
Tim Killian wrote:


Yeah sure, whatever. The whiny HVAC "techs" will continue to fight their
losing battle against the day A/C installs are as simple as plugging in
a toaster. I know a number of folks who successfully installed
mini-splits, and the day is coming when the larger stuff will be
plug-n-play too.

The HVAC industry only has itself to blame as their ranks are full of
no-account, lazy, dumb-ass techs who charge full fare for sub-standard
work. They act like carrying a hose set entitles them to neurosurgeon
pay, when many can't multiply 12x12 in their head!


And if I had a dollar for every moaner who has told the story of having
someone other than a legit contractor do it because it was a dollar
cheaper....

You shouldn't hiring techs. You should be hiring licensed contractors.

Most moaners problems stem from hiring the unqualified. But hey. You get
what you pay for.


Oh yes, the "licensed, insured" contractor. You must mean the guys who
have a salesman in the office and and a girl who actually answers their
phones? I've dealt with their ilk on several occasions and they seem to
have the same dumb asses working for them as well. Ex.: A $6K heat pump
system they installed stops working after two weeks, so they send out
Mr. Earring. Earring boy replaces a circuit board, the same one, 4 times
over a two week period, and then tells me that my attic is too hot, and
they're not going to replace it under warranty again. I call Mr. Fatass,
the owner of HVAC Supremo and tell him that he needs to send out a
competent tech, one who at least finished high school. They send out
their "best man" and he determines the problem is a short in some god
damned outside wiring. He is gracious enough to apologize for my lost
time, and admits that half the guys in his shop are total ****-ups.

So maybe I'm one of those "home-moaners" who expects to get what they
paid for. Pardon the hell out of me, Mr. HVAC asshole.

No, what you found is a company with at least one incompetent tech, if
not more. You deal with it or find another company that has a
competent staff. Its the same in this business as it is in car
mechanics, doctors, lawyers and even the local store in your hometown.
Some people/companies suck and others are great. Get rid of your suck
company and find a great one.
Bubba

"Tim Killian" wrote in message
. ..
Bill wrote:
In article ,
Tim Killian wrote:


Yeah sure, whatever. The whiny HVAC "techs" will continue to fight their
losing battle against the day A/C installs are as simple as plugging in a
toaster. I know a number of folks who successfully installed mini-splits,
and the day is coming when the larger stuff will be plug-n-play too.

The HVAC industry only has itself to blame as their ranks are full of
no-account, lazy, dumb-ass techs who charge full fare for sub-standard
work. They act like carrying a hose set entitles them to neurosurgeon
pay, when many can't multiply 12x12 in their head!


And if I had a dollar for every moaner who has told the story of having
someone other than a legit contractor do it because it was a dollar
cheaper....

You shouldn't hiring techs. You should be hiring licensed contractors.

Most moaners problems stem from hiring the unqualified. But hey. You get
what you pay for.


Oh yes, the "licensed, insured" contractor. You must mean the guys who
have a salesman in the office and and a girl who actually answers their
phones? I've dealt with their ilk on several occasions and they seem to
have the same dumb asses working for them as well. Ex.: A $6K heat pump
system they installed stops working after two weeks, so they send out Mr.
Earring. Earring boy replaces a circuit board, the same one, 4 times over
a two week period, and then tells me that my attic is too hot, and they're
not going to replace it under warranty again. I call Mr. Fatass, the owner
of HVAC Supremo and tell him that he needs to send out a competent tech,
one who at least finished high school. They send out their "best man" and
he determines the problem is a short in some god damned outside wiring. He
is gracious enough to apologize for my lost time, and admits that half the
guys in his shop are total ****-ups.

So maybe I'm one of those "home-moaners" who expects to get what they paid
for. Pardon the hell out of me, Mr. HVAC asshole.


Earring boy has cousins who work here, too. One is a mechanic down at the
Ford garage where I get my truck worked on. Another works at the HVAC
company that services my equipment. Several of them work at restaurants
around here. One earring boy cousin works down at the carwash and smears
the windows for each of the customers.

****ing earring boy's family! Those assholes should not be allowed to
reproduce. That is about the only thing they can do well.

"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
Whats a matter pjm nobody will hire ya


Mark..you know..Paul might be an ass, but dont get on the Terry bandwagon
with that..hes got a job, got a nice office, and knows more about HVAC than
most of the guys in there.
If I didnt know him personally, I would think the same thing..

Oscar_Lives wrote:

Earring boy has cousins who work here, too. One is a mechanic down at the
Ford garage where I get my truck worked on. Another works at the HVAC
company that services my equipment. Several of them work at restaurants
around here. One earring boy cousin works down at the carwash and smears
the windows for each of the customers.

****ing earring boy's family! Those assholes should not be allowed to
reproduce. That is about the only thing they can do well.

There's an inverse correlation between the size of someone's brain and
the minuteness of the trivia they use to differentiate themselves from
people to which they wish to feel superior.

R

but the point will always be true, even if you are a home owner and
you are hiring someone to do the work for you... it is important for
the homeowner to know what is going on so that he can be sure he is
hiring a competent HVAC guy....

any way you cut it, knowledge is power

and these groups are a way to share knowledge...

Mark (not the same Mark as above)

In article ,
Tim Killian wrote:

Oh yes, the "licensed, insured" contractor. You must mean the guys who
have a salesman in the office and and a girl who actually answers their
phones? I've dealt with their ilk on several occasions and they seem to
have the same dumb asses working for them as well. Ex.: A $6K heat pump
system they installed stops working after two weeks, so they send out
Mr. Earring. Earring boy replaces a circuit board, the same one, 4 times
over a two week period, and then tells me that my attic is too hot, and
they're not going to replace it under warranty again. I call Mr. Fatass,
the owner of HVAC Supremo and tell him that he needs to send out a
competent tech, one who at least finished high school. They send out
their "best man" and he determines the problem is a short in some god
damned outside wiring. He is gracious enough to apologize for my lost
time, and admits that half the guys in his shop are total ****-ups.

So maybe I'm one of those "home-moaners" who expects to get what they
paid for. Pardon the hell out of me, Mr. HVAC asshole.

Cost and whether a company has a girl to answer to their phone isn't
what I meant by qualified.

I'm sure the earring guy appreciates the training he got on your dollar.

Just what criteria did you use to hire these company's?

What did you ask for.

--
Paul's cat got a furball and kept saying weasel's name.

*Hack* *Hack* *hack*

This is Turtle.

I know a bunch of want a bee hvac people that can tell you all about
what your suppose to do but put them out in the real world or out in
the field. they are lost. Paul sells Soft ware and does NO work in the
hvac or Refrigeration business but only sells software. Now don't get
me wrong here Paul can Talk the Talk but he just can't Walk the Walk
and tries to get rid of anybody who starts talking about doing jobs and
not just talk about the theory with him. The reason he hates me so much
is , i have trouble spelling theory !

TURTLE

This is Turtle.

Well Tim , I'm glad you posted this as you did for there is a thought
that is been long over due as to answering to a reply like this.

About 1/2 of the hvac people that is in the business is not qualified
or should not be in the business and the other 1/2 is qualified to be
in it. 30 years ago when i was a youngster in the HVAC business just
about everybody was qualified to be there and then come who can sell
for the cheapest price. Then there was a fast speed volume of techs and
business owners that jumped into the business to joint the how cheap
will you go team. We still have it right now and they will just throw a
system in and then the customer will cry about it to the other
professional business owners when they have to come fix the screw ups
that these clown caused.

Thank you for litting this come to lite here !

TURTLE

****ing earring boy's family! Those assholes should not be allowed to
reproduce. That is about the only thing they can do well.

Presumably, earring boy is a fag and won't reproduce.

The problem is, when a gov't. entity requires and issues licenses, the
public believes, and is entitled to believe, that there is a degree of
competence, professionalism, and ethics associated with that license.
In reality, all it means is that the Association of Whatevers has
banded together, hired a lobbyist, and bribed politicians to legally
require a licensure system that only restricts access to the profession
and thereby reduces competition to rip off the consumer. The corrective
would be to either to police the licensees (fat chance) or abolish the
licensing system altogether and not pretend that a license in any way
protects the public. A welcome step in the latter remedy has been made
via the internet. Buyer beware on or off the internet, but better to go
into the transaction without the false security provided by those
wretched gov't. "licenses". -Jitney

In article . com,
"TURTLE" wrote:

This is Turtle.

system in and then the customer will cry about it to the other
professional business owners when they have to come fix the screw ups
that these clown caused.

Like you weasel? Dance hack boi!

--
Paul's cat got a furball and kept saying weasel's name.

*Hack* *Hack* *hack*

This is Turtle.

Billy Bob , I was speaking about you as the 1/2 that has no business in
the HVAC/R Business and does not have a clue ! Well atleast you was
smart enough to know I was talking about you !

TURTLE

In article . com,
"TURTLE" wrote:

This is Turtle.

Billy Bob , I was speaking about you as the 1/2 that has no business in
the HVAC/R Business and does not have a clue ! Well atleast you was
smart enough to know I was talking about you !

weasel when you get legal. Buy commercial tags, pay taxes, get a
license, get some HVAC training and can actually fix something without
throwing a box of parts at it.

Then maybe you can flap your gums here with some shred of credibility.

Until then goober, don't even try to pass your hack ass off as a legit
contractor.

--
Paul's cat got a furball and kept saying weasel's name.

*Hack* *Hack* *hack*

"Bill" wrote
You shouldn't hiring techs. You should be hiring licensed contractors.

Most moaners problems stem from hiring the unqualified.

Licensure in no way insures competency.

But hey. You get
what you pay for.

Actually, if you hire someone that has paid ransom to the state (you call it
licensure) you are getting a little less.

"Don" wrote in message
ink.net...
"Bill" wrote
You shouldn't hiring techs. You should be hiring licensed contractors.

Most moaners problems stem from hiring the unqualified.

Licensure in no way insures competency.

But hey. You get
what you pay for.

Actually, if you hire someone that has paid ransom to the state (you call
it licensure) you are getting a little less.


How ya figure that?
You think that the unlicence hack will do a better job cause if he DOES get
caught he did it right? Or that he does not WANT it to screw up so you call
the state and complain?

Licenced companies that screw up pay a bigger fine (we should know better)
and face jail time.
Gee..I wonder who is gonna do the better job..the hack that will be hard to
find, or the established company?
Its a potshot for sure, but you DO have recourse with a licened and insured
company, you have zip with a hack.

In article . net,
"Don" wrote:

"Bill" wrote
You shouldn't hiring techs. You should be hiring licensed contractors.

Most moaners problems stem from hiring the unqualified.

Licensure in no way insures competency.

True but it does provide for accountability.


But hey. You get
what you pay for.

Actually, if you hire someone that has paid ransom to the state (you call it
licensure) you are getting a little less.

I disagree. It shows certain standards were met and a demonstrated level
of knowledge.

What about RSES certifications and NATE?

--
Paul's cat got a furball and kept saying weasel's name.

*Hack* *Hack* *hack*

"CBHVAC" wrote in message
...

"Don" wrote in message
ink.net...
"Bill" wrote
You shouldn't hiring techs. You should be hiring licensed contractors.

Most moaners problems stem from hiring the unqualified.

Licensure in no way insures competency.

But hey. You get
what you pay for.

Actually, if you hire someone that has paid ransom to the state (you call
it licensure) you are getting a little less.


How ya figure that?

Well, you can start by reading the messages in this group from people that
have been ripped by licensed companies.
By having to pay the state ransoms, licenses, mandated insurance, workmans
comp., etc., etc. the licensed company must charge more than the unlicensed
for a comparable service.
This is Basic Accounting 101 which you seem to be ignorant of.

You think that the unlicence hack will do a better job cause if he DOES
get caught he did it right? Or that he does not WANT it to screw up so you
call the state and complain?

I believe good people will do good work, and licensure does not insure good
work.

Licenced companies that screw up pay a bigger fine (we should know better)
and face jail time.

OK, you've admitted that licensed companies srew up.
So what is your argument with me?

Gee..I wonder who is gonna do the better job..the hack that will be hard
to find, or the established company?

Neither one is immune to doing a bad job, and you know it.

Its a potshot for sure, but you DO have recourse with a licened and
insured company, you have zip with a hack.

Are you being deliberatly obtuse or what?
If you are damaged and can prove it you have recourse for restitution in the
courts or arbitration regardless of who did the damage.
The small time unlicensed guy that is simply trying to put bread in his
mouth may not be able to afford the cost of lawyers, like the large
corporation, can and may be more likely to do a good job.
You have not made a case for licensure.
And before you get your knickers in a complete emotional twist, I have held
3 state licenses since 1986.
In no way would I refuse to accept good work from someone simply because
they didn't pay state ransom, and people would should be professionally
examined.

"Bill" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
"Don" wrote:

"Bill" wrote
You shouldn't hiring techs. You should be hiring licensed contractors.

Most moaners problems stem from hiring the unqualified.

Licensure in no way insures competency.

True but it does provide for accountability.

No more so than any court or arbitration proceedings.
They say you can sue a ham sandwich in the courts these days.

But hey. You get
what you pay for.

Actually, if you hire someone that has paid ransom to the state (you call
it
licensure) you are getting a little less.

I disagree. It shows certain standards were met and a demonstrated level
of knowledge.

What about RSES certifications and NATE?

Isn't it possible for someone to have the education and the experience yet
NOT have a license?
Yes it is because, though I have held 3 licenses for almost 20 years prior
to that I was unlicensed for 4 years.
Licensure didn't change the quality of my work, but it did effect my bottom
line.
In all things the rule is *caveat emptor*, buyer beware, regardless of
license or not.

In article ,
"Don" wrote:

"Bill" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
"Don" wrote:

"Bill" wrote
You shouldn't hiring techs. You should be hiring licensed contractors.

Most moaners problems stem from hiring the unqualified.

Licensure in no way insures competency.

True but it does provide for accountability.

No more so than any court or arbitration proceedings.
They say you can sue a ham sandwich in the courts these days.

But hey. You get
what you pay for.

Actually, if you hire someone that has paid ransom to the state (you call
it
licensure) you are getting a little less.

I disagree. It shows certain standards were met and a demonstrated level
of knowledge.

What about RSES certifications and NATE?

Isn't it possible for someone to have the education and the experience yet
NOT have a license?
Yes it is because, though I have held 3 licenses for almost 20 years prior
to that I was unlicensed for 4 years.
Licensure didn't change the quality of my work, but it did effect my bottom
line.
In all things the rule is *caveat emptor*, buyer beware, regardless of
license or not.

Are you actually arguing licensing is a bad thing?

--
Paul's cat got a furball and kept saying weasel's name.

*Hack* *Hack* *hack*

"Don" wrote in message
. net...

"CBHVAC" wrote in message
...

"Don" wrote in message
ink.net...
"Bill" wrote
You shouldn't hiring techs. You should be hiring licensed contractors.

Most moaners problems stem from hiring the unqualified.

Licensure in no way insures competency.

But hey. You get
what you pay for.

Actually, if you hire someone that has paid ransom to the state (you
call it licensure) you are getting a little less.


How ya figure that?

Well, you can start by reading the messages in this group from people that
have been ripped by licensed companies.
By having to pay the state ransoms, licenses, mandated insurance, workmans
comp., etc., etc. the licensed company must charge more than the
unlicensed for a comparable service.
This is Basic Accounting 101 which you seem to be ignorant of.

Umm...basic licence fees here are $150 a year..so..you are telling me that I
have to charge 150 bux more over 365 days...ok...
Basic Accounting 101....customer pays for all, but when the customer is
already paying less than the other rapist in town, with us..guess what
bucky? No one notices..its called cost of doing business.
And BTW..around here, its the hacks that are charging out the ass.
Its one reason out of many that if you get caught, its a felonly.


You think that the unlicence hack will do a better job cause if he DOES
get caught he did it right? Or that he does not WANT it to screw up so
you call the state and complain?

I believe good people will do good work, and licensure does not insure
good work.

Licenced companies that screw up pay a bigger fine (we should know
better) and face jail time.

OK, you've admitted that licensed companies srew up.
So what is your argument with me?

Gee..I wonder who is gonna do the better job..the hack that will be hard
to find, or the established company?

Neither one is immune to doing a bad job, and you know it.

Its a potshot for sure, but you DO have recourse with a licened and
insured company, you have zip with a hack.

Are you being deliberatly obtuse or what?
If you are damaged and can prove it you have recourse for restitution in
the courts or arbitration regardless of who did the damage.
The small time unlicensed guy that is simply trying to put bread in his
mouth may not be able to afford the cost of lawyers, like the large
corporation, can and may be more likely to do a good job.
You have not made a case for licensure.
And before you get your knickers in a complete emotional twist, I have
held 3 state licenses since 1986.
In no way would I refuse to accept good work from someone simply because
they didn't pay state ransom, and people would should be professionally
examined.

Ohh....86?
Wow..those that know me know what I was doing in 86....and trust me...it
required several licences.
You support hacks...we dont..deal with it

"Bill" wrote in message
. ..
In article ,
"Don" wrote:

"Bill" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
"Don" wrote:

"Bill" wrote
You shouldn't hiring techs. You should be hiring licensed
contractors.

Most moaners problems stem from hiring the unqualified.

Licensure in no way insures competency.

True but it does provide for accountability.

No more so than any court or arbitration proceedings.
They say you can sue a ham sandwich in the courts these days.

But hey. You get
what you pay for.

Actually, if you hire someone that has paid ransom to the state (you
call
it
licensure) you are getting a little less.

I disagree. It shows certain standards were met and a demonstrated
level
of knowledge.

What about RSES certifications and NATE?

Isn't it possible for someone to have the education and the experience
yet
NOT have a license?
Yes it is because, though I have held 3 licenses for almost 20 years
prior
to that I was unlicensed for 4 years.
Licensure didn't change the quality of my work, but it did effect my
bottom
line.
In all things the rule is *caveat emptor*, buyer beware, regardless of
license or not.

Are you actually arguing licensing is a bad thing?

Un-****ing-believable.
Can you NOT read Bill?
Maybe I didn't type slowly enough for you.

"CBHVAC" wrote
And before you get your knickers in a complete emotional twist, I have
held 3 state licenses since 1986.
In no way would I refuse to accept good work from someone simply because
they didn't pay state ransom, and people would should be professionally
examined.

Ohh....86?
Wow..those that know me know what I was doing in 86....and trust me...it
required several licences.

yawn
Are you always so emotional?

You support hacks...we dont..deal with it

You're terrified of losing business to more credible persons, thus your
embarrassing emotional displays.
Deal with THAT.

In article ,
"Don" wrote:

Are you actually arguing licensing is a bad thing?

Un-****ing-believable.
Can you NOT read Bill?
Maybe I didn't type slowly enough for you.

You keep haranguing licensing. So are you arguing it's a bad thing or
just that you are above being licensed and decry the extortion?

So to re-word and repeat what you couldn't comprehend.
You'd rather there was no licensing. So anybody can do HVAC/R
contracting?

If you're stuck on whether someone can be knowledgeable in the trade and
unlicensed, I mistakenly assumed that was a rhetorical question, since
only a retard would have disagreed.
Apparently you wanted an answer to either comfort you or you needed
something to say to couch your tirade against licensing in.
So why were you licensed for "almost 20 years prior" if you are so
against licensing?

Either way. Licensing is there to protect the consumer and provide proof
of a minimum competency.

You still haven't answered what you were licensed in. Auto?, Fishing?,
Plumbing?, Barber?, Dental? Accounting?, Insurance? HVAC?, Law?,
Daycare? Real Estate?
What?

--
Paul's cat got a furball and kept saying weasel's name.

*Hack* *Hack* *hack*

On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 21:16:42 GMT,
wrote:

Home-moaners - wanna know why you 'takes your chances' buying HVAC
over the Internet and 'DIY'ing' ???? Read on.

On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 20:48:22 GMT, "Travis Jordan"
wrote:

Bill wrote:
In article ,
"R. Pierce Butler" wrote:

The proprietor of a Pinellas, Florida based air conditioning
contracting company has been recently charged and arrested on two
felony counts of grand theft in conjunction with operation of an
unlicensed air conditioning company.

Because he was operating without a license or what?

http://stateson.net/ac/home_ac_fl_complaint.txt


Geez, what a nitpicker !!!!!!

http://stateson.net/ac/

I suppose he's going to claim 'coil damage' on THIS ???
There's just no telling with some people ....

http://stateson.net/ac/DCP_0014.JPG

Pick Pick Pick !!!!

http://stateson.net/ac/DCP_0015.JPG

Hey, a little hammer action and it'll be OK !!!

http://stateson.net/ac/DCP_0016.JPG

And a little silicone, good as new !!!

http://stateson.net/ac/DCP_0017.JPG

This probably made him feel better !

http://stateson.net/ac/exhibit_a.doc

"Mr. Stateson,
Thank you for contacting Goodman Mfg. According to the information
provided, this unit was purchased via the Internet. Our warranty
states that we do not honor any warranty on products purchased over
the Internet. Your current situation is one example of why Goodman
does not recommend units being purchased over the Internet .

Please contact HomeAC.net for any further assistance.

Thanks

Byron Kirkwood
Goodman Consumer Affairs"
\

Here's a link to a St Petersburg Times article:

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/12/06/So...n_unlice.shtml

"Don" wrote in message
k.net...
"CBHVAC" wrote
And before you get your knickers in a complete emotional twist, I have
held 3 state licenses since 1986.
In no way would I refuse to accept good work from someone simply because
they didn't pay state ransom, and people would should be professionally
examined.

Ohh....86?
Wow..those that know me know what I was doing in 86....and trust me...it
required several licences.

yawn
Are you always so emotional?

You support hacks...we dont..deal with it

You're terrified of losing business to more credible persons, thus your
embarrassing emotional displays.
Deal with THAT.



God...you fell for it too I see..

twinky

im not worried about a thing..unlicenced folks are what we call job
security.
Please continue to support your local hack.

"Bill" wrote in message
.. .
In article ,
"Don" wrote:

Are you actually arguing licensing is a bad thing?

Un-****ing-believable.
Can you NOT read Bill?
Maybe I didn't type slowly enough for you.

You keep haranguing licensing. So are you arguing it's a bad thing or
just that you are above being licensed and decry the extortion?

Amazing.
And you say you're *licensed*, eh?
Bill, you're the best thing that ever happened to unlicensed people.

"Mort Guffman" wrote
Here's a link to a St Petersburg Times article:
http://www.sptimes.com/2005/12/06/So...n_unlice.shtml

Well that sort of blows a big hole in the claims by some around here that
there is no recourse if one is ripped by an unlicensed person.

Don wrote:
"Bill" wrote
You shouldn't hiring techs. You should be hiring licensed contractors.

Most moaners problems stem from hiring the unqualified.

Licensure in no way insures competency.

But the odds are higher that an unlicensed person is incompetent or
cutting corners in other areas.

But hey. You get
what you pay for.

Actually, if you hire someone that has paid ransom to the state (you call it
licensure) you are getting a little less.

Or you may be paying a bit more., but it's not wasted money.

R

CBHVAC wrote:
"Don" wrote in message

Well, you can start by reading the messages in this group from people that
have been ripped by licensed companies.
By having to pay the state ransoms, licenses, mandated insurance, workmans
comp., etc., etc. the licensed company must charge more than the
unlicensed for a comparable service.

An insured company vs. an uninsured company are not comparable
services.

This is Basic Accounting 101 which you seem to be ignorant of.

Nevermind the Basic Accounting. Basic Common Sense should tell you to
check that the contractor has both liability and disability insurance.

Umm...basic licence fees here are $150 a year..so..you are telling me that I
have to charge 150 bux more over 365 days...ok...
Basic Accounting 101....customer pays for all, but when the customer is
already paying less than the other rapist in town, with us..guess what
bucky? No one notices..its called cost of doing business.
And BTW..around here, its the hacks that are charging out the ass.
Its one reason out of many that if you get caught, its a felonly.

Exactly. Licensing is cheap. If a guy is skimping on that, what else
is he skimping on? You figure even a small contractor, a one man
operation, should be billing out $75K as a minimum (and likely much
more than that), so licensing would add, at most, 1% to his cost of
business. Spread out over the course of a year, the "bite" to each
individual customer is negligible. Hardly a reason to avoid licensing.

R

"RicodJour" wrote
Exactly. Licensing is cheap. If a guy is skimping on that, what else
is he skimping on?

Licensed contractors don't skimp?