I have an outdoor GFCI outlet. About every two years, I have to replace the
outlet. It doesn't trip very often (if at all) between the time I install
the new one, and the time it finally starts to trip constantly. I do run
pond equipment on this circuit all summer. It seems to fail in the winter
time when I either plug my truck's block heater in, or I try and start my
snowblower. It doesn't trip if I plug my xmas lights into it.

I am not an expert electrician, however when I built our home, I was present
when the wiring for the house was done. I can confirm that there is no
damage to the circuit cabling. This leads me to believe that the GFCI
itself is failing. If I replace the GFCI it will work as expected.

My question is, is it reasonable to only expect 2 years of regular service
out of a GFCI? What are the recommended brands for outdoor use?

Thanks

Mike

"Mikhael47" wrote in
:

I have an outdoor GFCI outlet. About every two years, I have to
replace the outlet. It doesn't trip very often (if at all) between
the time I install the new one, and the time it finally starts to
trip constantly. I do run pond equipment on this circuit all summer.
It seems to fail in the winter time when I either plug my truck's
block heater in, or I try and start my snowblower. It doesn't trip if
I plug my xmas lights into it.

I am not an expert electrician, however when I built our home, I was
present when the wiring for the house was done. I can confirm that
there is no damage to the circuit cabling. This leads me to believe
that the GFCI itself is failing. If I replace the GFCI it will work
as expected.

My question is, is it reasonable to only expect 2 years of regular
service out of a GFCI? What are the recommended brands for outdoor
use?

Couple of questions: (I'm not an electrician, but I've done my share of
household wiring)

What gauge is the wiring for the outlet ?
What amperage is the breaker at the box for this circuit?
Is it a dedicated circuit ?
Have you opened the casing around the outlet to confirm there is no
moisture/insect/rodent damage ?

At a guess, I'd say either the gauge on the circuit is too small or the
breaker too low an amperage, given the conditions in which it's tripping.

Dunno about brands specifically, but does Honeywell make em ? I know they
make some pretty decent thermostats, which we've always been happy with

--
Marc Bissonnette
CGI / Database / Web Management Tools: http://www.internalysis.com
Looking for a new ISP? http://www.canadianisp.com

"Mikhael47" wrote...

My question is, is it reasonable to only expect 2 years of regular service
out of a GFCI? What are the recommended brands for outdoor use?

I have several installed, both inside and outside. I've replaced 1 in 9 years,
and most of them predate my moving in by 5+ years.

I have no idea what brand the outdoor units are.

Mik;

I'm not an electrician, but have done house wiring more than a few
times, including my own home. I've never had a GFI receptacle fail in
almost 20 years of their having been installed in my home.

One failure of a receptable might constitute a faulty unit. Failures of
two would be incredible odds.

Any more than than one and I would tend to suspect that the wiring was
done improperly.

ie Undersized wire overloaded circuit, improperly designed circuits.

Mikhael47 wrote:
I have an outdoor GFCI outlet. About every two years, I have to
replace the
outlet. It doesn't trip very often (if at all) between the time I
install
the new one, and the time it finally starts to trip constantly. I
do run
pond equipment on this circuit all summer. It seems to fail in the
winter
time when I either plug my truck's block heater in, or I try and
start my
snowblower. It doesn't trip if I plug my xmas lights into it.

I am not an expert electrician, however when I built our home, I was
present
when the wiring for the house was done. I can confirm that there is
no
damage to the circuit cabling. This leads me to believe that the
GFCI
itself is failing. If I replace the GFCI it will work as expected.

My question is, is it reasonable to only expect 2 years of regular
service
out of a GFCI? What are the recommended brands for outdoor use?

Thanks

Mike

Eunoia Eigensinn wrote:
Mik;

I'm not an electrician, but have done house wiring more than a few
times, including my own home.* I've never had a GFI receptacle fail in
almost 20 years of their having been installed in my home.**

* This may or may not be true. Euni is a famous prankster! Beware.
** This may or may not be true.


One failure of a receptable might constitute a faulty unit.* Failures of
two would be incredible odds.**

* This may or may not be true.
** This may or may not be true.

Any more than than one and I would tend to suspect that the wiring was
done improperly.*

* This may or may not be true.

ie Undersized wire overloaded circuit, improperly designed circuits.*

* This may or may not be true.

Another Herb PSA


Mikhael47 wrote:

I have an outdoor GFCI outlet. About every two years, I have to

replace the

outlet. It doesn't trip very often (if at all) between the time I

install

the new one, and the time it finally starts to trip constantly. I

do run

pond equipment on this circuit all summer. It seems to fail in the

winter

time when I either plug my truck's block heater in, or I try and

start my

snowblower. It doesn't trip if I plug my xmas lights into it.

I am not an expert electrician, however when I built our home, I was

present

when the wiring for the house was done. I can confirm that there is

no

damage to the circuit cabling. This leads me to believe that the

GFCI

itself is failing. If I replace the GFCI it will work as expected.

My question is, is it reasonable to only expect 2 years of regular

service

out of a GFCI? What are the recommended brands for outdoor use?

Thanks

Mike

"Eunoia Eigensinn" wrote in message
ups.com...
Mik;

I'm not an electrician, but have done house wiring more than a few
times, including my own home. I've never had a GFI receptacle fail in
almost 20 years of their having been installed in my home.

One failure of a receptable might constitute a faulty unit. Failures of
two would be incredible odds.

Any more than than one and I would tend to suspect that the wiring was
done improperly.

ie Undersized wire overloaded circuit, improperly designed circuits.

Yes, I've checked all that. I have other GFCI's that are wired identically.
I have not checked for rodent/insect damage yet this time, however, last
time it seemed fine. I also have a breaker on this circuit. I may just
swap it out for a GFCI breaker instead.

Mike

Mikhael47 wrote:
[snip]
I also have a breaker on this circuit. I may just
swap it out for a GFCI breaker instead.

Mike

Mike;

That may not be a good idea.

I have GFI breakers at the panel for all of my outdoor circuits and
interior circuits like those to bathroom & kitchen outlets.

But I also have GFI outlet receptacles installed.

The GFI breakers protect the wiring but will not do much to prevent
someone from being electrocuted at the point of use.

Do some Googling on the subject and you should find an authoritative
explanation.

Eunoia Eigensinn wrote:

Mikhael47 wrote:
[snip]

I also have a breaker on this circuit. I may just
swap it out for a GFCI breaker instead.

Mike


Mike;

That may not be a good idea.

I have GFI breakers at the panel for all of my outdoor circuits and
interior circuits like those to bathroom & kitchen outlets.

But I also have GFI outlet receptacles installed.

The GFI breakers protect the wiring but will not do much to prevent
someone from being electrocuted at the point of use.

Do some Googling on the subject and you should find an authoritative
explanation.


One must, of course, be able to discern the wheat from the chaff out
there on the 'net.

Since you seem to be the authority on the subject, perhaps you already
have some sites in mind you can recommend?

....or haven't you Googled enough yet yourself to find them yet?

Joe Canuck wrote:
Eunoia Eigensinn wrote:

Mikhael47 wrote:
[snip]

I also have a breaker on this circuit. I may just
swap it out for a GFCI breaker instead.

Mike



Mike;

That may not be a good idea.

I have GFI breakers at the panel for all of my outdoor circuits and
interior circuits like those to bathroom & kitchen outlets.

But I also have GFI outlet receptacles installed.

The GFI breakers protect the wiring but will not do much to prevent
someone from being electrocuted at the point of use.

Do some Googling on the subject and you should find an authoritative
explanation.


One must, of course, be able to discern the wheat from the chaff out
there on the 'net.

Since you seem to be the authority on the subject, perhaps you already
have some sites in mind you can recommend?

...or haven't you Googled enough yet yourself to find them yet?



Yes, and don't forget to Google for "Eigensinn + hoax" while you're at
it! You'll hit the lottery of Google hits!

http://tinyurl.com/63bfj

Make sure you are well grounded and well linsured before taking any tips
to heart from this ****-stick.

Herb

Herb Tarlek wrote:
Joe Canuck wrote:

Eunoia Eigensinn wrote:

Mikhael47 wrote:
[snip]

I also have a breaker on this circuit. I may just
swap it out for a GFCI breaker instead.

Mike




Mike;

That may not be a good idea.

I have GFI breakers at the panel for all of my outdoor circuits and
interior circuits like those to bathroom & kitchen outlets.

But I also have GFI outlet receptacles installed.

The GFI breakers protect the wiring but will not do much to prevent
someone from being electrocuted at the point of use.

Do some Googling on the subject and you should find an authoritative
explanation.


One must, of course, be able to discern the wheat from the chaff out
there on the 'net.

Since you seem to be the authority on the subject, perhaps you already
have some sites in mind you can recommend?

...or haven't you Googled enough yet yourself to find them yet?



Yes, and don't forget to Google for "Eigensinn + hoax" while you're at
it! You'll hit the lottery of Google hits!

http://tinyurl.com/63bfj

Make sure you are well grounded and well linsured before taking any tips
to heart from this ****-stick.


In addition to being well linsured, make sure you are also well insured.

Herb

Herb

In article .com, "Eunoia Eigensinn" wrote:

Mikhael47 wrote:
[snip]
I also have a breaker on this circuit. I may just
swap it out for a GFCI breaker instead.

Mike

Mike;

That may not be a good idea.

I have GFI breakers at the panel for all of my outdoor circuits and
interior circuits like those to bathroom & kitchen outlets.

But I also have GFI outlet receptacles installed.

A pointless waste of time and money, as those circuits _already_have_ ground
fault protection from the GFI breakers. What do you suppose the GFI
receptacles provide, that the GFI breakers do not?

The GFI breakers protect the wiring but will not do much to prevent
someone from being electrocuted at the point of use.

Half right, anyway: GFI breakers do protect the wiring. But they also provide
ground-fault protection against electrocution.

Think about it for just two seconds: you described accurately the behavior of
a *standard* (non-GFI) breaker. Now how might a GFI breaker behave
differently?

Hint: what do the letters GFI stand for?

Do some Googling on the subject and you should find an authoritative
explanation.

You seem to be in need of one yourself...

Doug Miller wrote:
In article .com,
"Eunoia Eigensinn" wrote:

Mikhael47 wrote:
[snip]
I also have a breaker on this circuit. I may just
swap it out for a GFCI breaker instead.

Mike

Mike;

That may not be a good idea.

I have GFI breakers at the panel for all of my outdoor circuits and
interior circuits like those to bathroom & kitchen outlets.

But I also have GFI outlet receptacles installed.

A pointless waste of time and money, as those circuits _already_have_
ground
fault protection from the GFI breakers. What do you suppose the GFI
receptacles provide, that the GFI breakers do not?

The GFI breakers protect the wiring but will not do much to prevent
someone from being electrocuted at the point of use.

Half right, anyway: GFI breakers do protect the wiring. But they also
provide
ground-fault protection against electrocution.

Think about it for just two seconds: you described accurately the
behavior of
a *standard* (non-GFI) breaker. Now how might a GFI breaker behave
differently?

Hint: what do the letters GFI stand for?

Do some Googling on the subject and you should find an authoritative
explanation.

You seem to be in need of one yourself...


Actually, you would benefit from your own advice: Think about it.

For instance, it's not unreasonable for an outdoor receptacle point of
use to be 100 ft from the breaker panel.
I'll leave you to take it from there.

In article .com, "Eunoia Eigensinn" wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:
In article .com,
"Eunoia Eigensinn" wrote:

Mikhael47 wrote:
[snip]
I also have a breaker on this circuit. I may just
swap it out for a GFCI breaker instead.

Mike

Mike;

That may not be a good idea.

I have GFI breakers at the panel for all of my outdoor circuits and
interior circuits like those to bathroom & kitchen outlets.

But I also have GFI outlet receptacles installed.

A pointless waste of time and money, as those circuits _already_have_
ground
fault protection from the GFI breakers. What do you suppose the GFI
receptacles provide, that the GFI breakers do not?

The GFI breakers protect the wiring but will not do much to prevent
someone from being electrocuted at the point of use.

Half right, anyway: GFI breakers do protect the wiring. But they also
provide
ground-fault protection against electrocution.

Think about it for just two seconds: you described accurately the
behavior of
a *standard* (non-GFI) breaker. Now how might a GFI breaker behave
differently?

Hint: what do the letters GFI stand for?

Do some Googling on the subject and you should find an authoritative
explanation.

You seem to be in need of one yourself...


Actually, you would benefit from your own advice: Think about it.

For instance, it's not unreasonable for an outdoor receptacle point of
use to be 100 ft from the breaker panel.
I'll leave you to take it from there.

And what's the resistance of 100 feet of 12- or 14-gauge wire?

"Eunoia Eigensinn" wrote in message
oups.com...

Doug Miller wrote:
In article .com,
"Eunoia Eigensinn" wrote:

Mikhael47 wrote:
[snip]
I also have a breaker on this circuit. I may just
swap it out for a GFCI breaker instead.

Mike

Mike;

That may not be a good idea.

I have GFI breakers at the panel for all of my outdoor circuits and
interior circuits like those to bathroom & kitchen outlets.

But I also have GFI outlet receptacles installed.

A pointless waste of time and money, as those circuits _already_have_
ground
fault protection from the GFI breakers. What do you suppose the GFI
receptacles provide, that the GFI breakers do not?

The GFI breakers protect the wiring but will not do much to prevent
someone from being electrocuted at the point of use.

Half right, anyway: GFI breakers do protect the wiring. But they also
provide
ground-fault protection against electrocution.

Think about it for just two seconds: you described accurately the
behavior of
a *standard* (non-GFI) breaker. Now how might a GFI breaker behave
differently?

Hint: what do the letters GFI stand for?

Do some Googling on the subject and you should find an authoritative
explanation.

You seem to be in need of one yourself...


Actually, you would benefit from your own advice: Think about it.

For instance, it's not unreasonable for an outdoor receptacle point of
use to be 100 ft from the breaker panel.
I'll leave you to take it from there.

I agree with you on this one.... The length of the run involved is quite
long (about 100ft considering I have two other outlets on the same circuit).
I'd be worried that it wouldn't trip fast enough if the GFI was at the
panel. I think I'll nix that idea.

"Mikhael47" wrote in message
...

"Eunoia Eigensinn" wrote in message
oups.com...

Doug Miller wrote:
In article
.com,
"Eunoia Eigensinn" wrote:

Mikhael47 wrote:
[snip]
I also have a breaker on this circuit. I may just
swap it out for a GFCI breaker instead.

Mike

Mike;

That may not be a good idea.

I have GFI breakers at the panel for all of my outdoor
circuits and
interior circuits like those to bathroom & kitchen
outlets.

But I also have GFI outlet receptacles installed.

A pointless waste of time and money, as those circuits
_already_have_
ground
fault protection from the GFI breakers. What do you suppose
the GFI
receptacles provide, that the GFI breakers do not?

The GFI breakers protect the wiring but will not do much
to prevent
someone from being electrocuted at the point of use.

Half right, anyway: GFI breakers do protect the wiring. But
they also
provide
ground-fault protection against electrocution.

Think about it for just two seconds: you described
accurately the
behavior of
a *standard* (non-GFI) breaker. Now how might a GFI breaker
behave
differently?

Hint: what do the letters GFI stand for?

Do some Googling on the subject and you should find an
authoritative
explanation.

You seem to be in need of one yourself...


Actually, you would benefit from your own advice: Think about
it.

For instance, it's not unreasonable for an outdoor receptacle
point of
use to be 100 ft from the breaker panel.
I'll leave you to take it from there.

I agree with you on this one.... The length of the run involved
is quite
long (about 100ft considering I have two other outlets on the
same circuit).
I'd be worried that it wouldn't trip fast enough if the GFI was
at the
panel. I think I'll nix that idea.

What the .... does the distance from the panel have to do with
anything? Electrocution current is on the order of milliamps.

Bob

Bob wrote:
"Mikhael47" wrote in message
...

"Eunoia Eigensinn" wrote in message
groups.com...

Doug Miller wrote:

In article

.com,

"Eunoia Eigensinn" wrote:

Mikhael47 wrote:
[snip]

I also have a breaker on this circuit. I may just
swap it out for a GFCI breaker instead.

Mike

Mike;

That may not be a good idea.

I have GFI breakers at the panel for all of my outdoor

circuits and

interior circuits like those to bathroom & kitchen

outlets.

But I also have GFI outlet receptacles installed.

A pointless waste of time and money, as those circuits

_already_have_

ground

fault protection from the GFI breakers. What do you suppose

the GFI

receptacles provide, that the GFI breakers do not?

The GFI breakers protect the wiring but will not do much

to prevent

someone from being electrocuted at the point of use.

Half right, anyway: GFI breakers do protect the wiring. But

they also

provide

ground-fault protection against electrocution.

Think about it for just two seconds: you described

accurately the

behavior of

a *standard* (non-GFI) breaker. Now how might a GFI breaker

behave

differently?

Hint: what do the letters GFI stand for?

Do some Googling on the subject and you should find an

authoritative

explanation.


You seem to be in need of one yourself...


Actually, you would benefit from your own advice: Think about

it.

For instance, it's not unreasonable for an outdoor receptacle

point of

use to be 100 ft from the breaker panel.
I'll leave you to take it from there.


I agree with you on this one.... The length of the run involved

is quite

long (about 100ft considering I have two other outlets on the

same circuit).

I'd be worried that it wouldn't trip fast enough if the GFI was

at the

panel. I think I'll nix that idea.


What the .... does the distance from the panel have to do with
anything? Electrocution current is on the order of milliamps.

Bob



Time, distance and reaction time. Quite simple really.

"Joe Canuck" wrote in message
...


What the .... does the distance from the panel have to do
with
anything? Electrocution current is on the order of milliamps.

Bob



Time, distance and reaction time. Quite simple really.

Care to explain? It's not so simple to this EE.

Bob

Bob wrote:
"Joe Canuck" wrote in message
...


What the .... does the distance from the panel have to do
with
anything? Electrocution current is on the order of milliamps.

Bob



Time, distance and reaction time. Quite simple really.

Care to explain? It's not so simple to this EE.

Bob

I am superstitious and do not understand the properties of electricity.
What is the benefit of placing the GFI at the outlet as opposed to the
panel (or vice versa)?

Mike

wrote in message I am superstitious and
do not understand the properties of electricity.
What is the benefit of placing the GFI at the outlet as opposed
to the
panel (or vice versa)?

Outlet GFI's are a lot cheaper.

Bob