Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems.

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Old January 22nd 20, 02:35 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Neighbor having ISP speed problems.

My neighbor recently cut the cable. I helped him put up an antenna, and
reconnect things in the box on the outside of the house. Antenna goes to
the TV and cable goes to the Modem/router.
Up until 1 month ago he had 200 MBPs, he did a speed test and was
only getting 67 MBPs. They came out and replaced the cable from the road
to the house and got the 200MBPs.
When he cut the cable,he changed his speed to 100 MBPs. His NetFlix
was buffering so I checked his speed, it is around 40 MBPs.
We got the cable guy out and he checked signal at the road, Good,
he checked the signal just before it enters the house, Good.
The he ran a test that looked like a spectrum analyzer display.
He drove the cable going into the house connected to the Modem/router.
He said he was looking for noise. The cable guy didn't have a high
understanding, he just knew if it had a signal over a certain amount
that was to much noise. The test showed a peak at 300MHz of -40 unknown
label. But he said, nothing to worry about.
I'm not sure what this test was, unless is is just a spectrum analyzer
looking at noise on a coax going into the house.

If that is so, where would a 300MHz signal originate in the house?


The coax was connected to the Modem/router on one end and the spectrum
analyzer? on the other end. Could the Modem/router generate a 300MHz signal?

The last test was testing the speed at the end of the cable where it
would go into the router, Good.

Cable guy left without fixing anything, said the signal strength
should read -9 to +10, and it was 9.1. I ask if that could overload
the input of the modem and cause it to be slow. He just kinda shrugged
and said he wasn't sure.

Would overloading the input of a modem cause it be slow?

Cable guy did suggest he try a new modem.

I'm going to try a few things before he spends his money.
Mikek

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Old January 22nd 20, 04:36 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Neighbor having ISP speed problems.

On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 07:35:55 -0600, amdx wrote:

If that is so, where would a 300MHz signal originate in the house?


300 MHz is the lower end of the microwave spectrum. It is probably a
microwave cooker. Easy to test. Unplug it.

--
http://www.npsnn.com

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Old January 22nd 20, 07:40 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Neighbor having ISP speed problems.

On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 07:35:55 -0600, amdx wrote:

If that is so, where would a 300MHz signal originate in the house?


2nd harmonic of the ingress test function in his tester. Some CATV
testers can generate test carriers to help check for cable leakage. It
can also be generated at the CMTS (cable modem termination system).
Helicopters are used to fly over the cable looking for leaks. The
pilot frequency is usually about 140 MHz

Another possible is the 3rd harmonic of a local FM broadcast
transmitter. The harmonic need not be generated in the FM
transmitter, but could simply be caused by a non-linear device in the
cable system generating the harmonic. It also doesn't need to be
generated in the house and could enter the cable (ingress) anywhere
along the cable line. Look for loose or rotten connectors and read
about ingress in CATV systems. The tech should have unplugged the
house cable system from the network to see if the 300MHz signal was
still there. If it goes away, it's being generated in the cable
system. If it's still there, it's either in his unspecified model
tester, a local radio/TV station, or being generated by something in
the house. Try turning off electronics and see what happens.

The coax was connected to the Modem/router on one end and the spectrum
analyzer? on the other end. Could the Modem/router generate a 300MHz signal?


Yes. The reverse (upstream) channel is usually 5-50MHz. You could be
looking at harmonics from that. However, that's unlikely. Some cable
modems use channels at the high end of the spectrum (1000MHz) for
upstream, but those probably won't produce 300MHz.

The last test was testing the speed at the end of the cable where it
would go into the router, Good.


Ok, so you have a "leak" in the cable somewhere in the house. Tear
apart the system and try to isolate the bad segment. The most likely
culprits are the F connectors. Pull on the F connector. If it falls
apart or disconnects from the coax, it's defective. Make sure that
your cables are all RG-6/u and not RG-59/u which tends to be old and
awful. Use push-on connectors (that require a push on tool to install
properly), and not the ring crimp type.
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/antennas/Misc/slides/CATV-tools.html

Cable guy left without fixing anything, said the signal strength
should read -9 to +10, and it was 9.1. I ask if that could overload
the input of the modem and cause it to be slow. He just kinda shrugged
and said he wasn't sure.

Would overloading the input of a modem cause it be slow?


Yes. The front end of the cable modem has an AGC (automagic gain
control) that has signal level limits that should be observed. Too
much signal will result in signal distortion. It's easy enough to
build or buy a F-connector type attenuator, and add it in line at the
modem. Start with 3dB or maybe 6dB. I've never had anything improve
with less signal, but it's worth a try.

Cable guy did suggest he try a new modem.


Thanks for reminding me about my favorite rant for this newsgroup.
Is there some reason you conveniently left out most numbers that could
be of use in diagnosing the problem? Is it because you've been
reading Cuisitor Doom's posting and using them as a template? Perhaps
you prefer vague and general answers instead of specifics? I think
you get the idea. Kindly disclose:
1. Type of coax cable used in the house. If it's RG-59/u, your
neighbor will not like my recommendation.
2. Model number of the cable modem.
3. Maker and model number of the tester used.
4. CATV company name.
5. DOCSIS 2.0, 3.0, or 3.1? From your stated speeds, my guess(tm) is
DOCSIS 3.0

While your at it, are you doing the speed tests with a wired ethernet
connection, or are you trying to do it via wireless? Wireless is
often slower than your cable speed and is subject to interference from
other wi-fi systems. Use a CAT5 cable (and a fast computah).

I'm going to try a few things before he spends his money.
Mikek


Cable modems are fairly cheap. Cable gateways, which include a
router, wi-fi, switch, etc, are more expensive and difficult to find
legally. This is what I like and which might work if approved by the
cable ISP:
https://www.newegg.com/arris-sb6190-cable-modem/p/N82E16825694017

However, since he's your neighbor, you could probably remove his
modem, and temporarily replace it with yours and see if it makes a
difference. If nothing changes, then replacing the modem will
probably not do anything useful.

Check the power supply on the modem. I've seen those deterioriate
over the years and produce some really bizarre symptoms.

For signal levels, if the modem is by Arris/Motorola, point your web
browser to 192.168.100.1 and you'll get some signal level diagnostics.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
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Old January 22nd 20, 07:48 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Neighbor having ISP speed problems.

In article , amdx wrote:

He said he was looking for noise. The cable guy didn't have a high
understanding, he just knew if it had a signal over a certain amount
that was to much noise. The test showed a peak at 300MHz of -40 unknown
label. But he said, nothing to worry about.
I'm not sure what this test was, unless is is just a spectrum analyzer
looking at noise on a coax going into the house.

If that is so, where would a 300MHz signal originate in the house?


The coax was connected to the Modem/router on one end and the spectrum
analyzer? on the other end. Could the Modem/router generate a 300MHz signal?


Sure... if one of its onboard clock/oscillator chips is running at
that frequency (or a subharmonic of it like 100 or 150 MHz).

Some years ago I helped chase down an "over the air" interference
problem, where a strange signal was getting into the inputs of a bunch
of repeaters in the 2-meter band (144-148 MHz). We tracked down the
source to an apartment building in San Jose. One apartment dweller
had an Ethernet switch which was radiating a harmonic of its
oscillator frequency, whenever it was passing Ethernet traffic, and
this signal wandered around between 144 and 145 MHz. The signal was
apparently leaking out via both the Ethernet cables and through the
router's power wiring and wall-wart... strong enough to be picked
up miles away!

I traded the owner one of my spare Ethernet switches for his noisy
one, and the problem went away. Never did learn what was actually wrong
with the noisy one (it was a well-known brand with a good reputation for
quality).

Would overloading the input of a modem cause it be slow?


It's not impossible. If a signal is too strong it can push the RF
circuitry into saturation, which causes several sorts of Badness...
distortion of the strong signals, suppression of weaker ones, and
the creation of intermodulation "images" between strong signals.

You could try adding a 75-ohm coaxial "pad" (a bidirectional attenuator
of the correct impedance) to see if it helps... try a 6 dB or 12 dB pad.

Another thing to check for, is to make sure that the home's coaxial wiring
is a "straight run" from the service entrance to wherever you have the
modem... no dividers or side branches. If you do have a signal splitter
(so e.g. you can run both the modem and a TV or DVR) make sure that all
unused ports on the splitter have 75-ohm terminators screwed into them.
If there are any branches coming off of the splitter that go to other
rooms, make sure they're either in use (with e.g. a TV) or have a terminator.

Unterminated branches on a coax network can cause signal reflections, and
admit outside noise... both can hurt reception.

Cable guy did suggest he try a new modem.


Well worth trying. Maybe see if you can get a loaner from someone to
try, before spending $$.




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Old January 22nd 20, 11:11 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Jul 2013
Posts: 687
Default Neighbor having ISP speed problems.

On 1/22/2020 12:40 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 07:35:55 -0600, amdx wrote:

If that is so, where would a 300MHz signal originate in the house?


2nd harmonic of the ingress test function in his tester. Some CATV
testers can generate test carriers to help check for cable leakage. It
can also be generated at the CMTS (cable modem termination system).
Helicopters are used to fly over the cable looking for leaks. The
pilot frequency is usually about 140 MHz


Quite a few years ago, they drove by my house and said it was singing.
It must have been pretty bad, because the, it was a mojor road near me.
They replaced a bunch of connectors and said it was quiet now.
Then maybe 4 years ago, two guys were outside my house asking if I had a
cable running in the ground right here, nope. They suggested I needed my
house rewired, but they added, if I sign up for a maintenance contract
at $4 a month, they will rewire the house for free. I signed up, a month
later no one had showed up, I called and complained. They sent someone
out and he even ran me a fifth wire for future expansion as I requested.
All five wires running outside the house, no splitters in the attic.
They raised the maintenance fee to $5 the next month, I paid that and
cancelled.
Now, I have cut the cord and have nice system for my antenna, and a
separate coax to my modem.




Another possible is the 3rd harmonic of a local FM broadcast
transmitter. The harmonic need not be generated in the FM
transmitter, but could simply be caused by a non-linear device in the
cable system generating the harmonic. It also doesn't need to be
generated in the house and could enter the cable (ingress) anywhere
along the cable line. Look for loose or rotten connectors and read
about ingress in CATV systems. The tech should have unplugged the
house cable system from the network to see if the 300MHz signal was
still there. If it goes away, it's being generated in the cable
system. If it's still there, it's either in his unspecified model
tester, a local radio/TV station, or being generated by something in
the house. Try turning off electronics and see what happens.

The coax was connected to the Modem/router on one end and the spectrum
analyzer? on the other end. Could the Modem/router generate a 300MHz signal?


Yes. The reverse (upstream) channel is usually 5-50MHz. You could be
looking at harmonics from that. However, that's unlikely. Some cable
modems use channels at the high end of the spectrum (1000MHz) for
upstream, but those probably won't produce 300MHz.

The last test was testing the speed at the end of the cable where it
would go into the router, Good.


I'm sorry this line was wrong, where I said speed, I should have said
signal strength.



Ok, so you have a "leak" in the cable somewhere in the house. Tear
apart the system and try to isolate the bad segment. The most likely
culprits are the F connectors. Pull on the F connector. If it falls
apart or disconnects from the coax, it's defective. Make sure that
your cables are all RG-6/u and not RG-59/u which tends to be old and
awful. Use push-on connectors (that require a push on tool to install
properly), and not the ring crimp type.
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/antennas/Misc/slides/CATV-tools.html


Ya, I have one similar in style to the Apica, If we install new cable,
we can use it. I even have a 500 ft spool of the orange cable the
company uses for direct burial. I bought it the local metal scrapyard.
I suspect someone stole it and then sold it for the copper to the
scrapyard, I hope they didn't discard it because it was defective.



Cable guy left without fixing anything, said the signal strength
should read -9 to +10, and it was 9.1. I ask if that could overload
the input of the modem and cause it to be slow. He just kinda shrugged
and said he wasn't sure.

Would overloading the input of a modem cause it be slow?


Yes. The front end of the cable modem has an AGC (automagic gain
control) that has signal level limits that should be observed. Too
much signal will result in signal distortion. It's easy enough to
build or buy a F-connector type attenuator, and add it in line at the
modem. Start with 3dB or maybe 6dB. I've never had anything improve
with less signal, but it's worth a try.


I got a couple of splitters from him before he left, one two way,
-3db, and another with -4.5db tap and the rest -7db. I wanted to insert
just to drop the signal level a little.
The cable guy tried to hard wire the computer, I wasn't there then, I
was told they think there is a bad connection in the modem, they had to
keep wiggling it to get a connection, but then they would lose it.
I said "all 4 ethernet connectors?" No answer for that. So, I also
want to take my laptop over and my cable and hard wire it.
If it measures slow, I'll suggest we connect the modem outside where
the cable comes up out of the ground and see if it has proper speed.
If yes, then replace the cable in house.



Cable guy did suggest he try a new modem.


Thanks for reminding me about my favorite rant for this newsgroup.
Is there some reason you conveniently left out most numbers that could
be of use in diagnosing the problem? Is it because you've been
reading Cuisitor Doom's posting and using them as a template? Perhaps
you prefer vague and general answers instead of specifics? I think
you get the idea. Kindly disclose:
1. Type of coax cable used in the house. If it's RG-59/u, your
neighbor will not like my recommendation.
2. Model number of the cable modem.
3. Maker and model number of the tester used.
4. CATV company name.
5. DOCSIS 2.0, 3.0, or 3.1? From your stated speeds, my guess(tm) is
DOCSIS 3.0

Cursitor had no effect in my lack of important data.

I did it all myself.

First it was about 36*F outside and I took the garbage out and saw the
cable truck, so I wondered over to neighbors to supervise. ;-)
I didn't inspect the cable guys meter, it was two parts the measuring
device and a separate display. they were both in there bag or holder and
I didn't get a good look. By the time we got to a 300MHz bump it was
getting dark.
If this goes any further, I'll answer 3 or 4 of your 5 questions.


While your at it, are you doing the speed tests with a wired ethernet
connection, or are you trying to do it via wireless? Wireless is
often slower than your cable speed and is subject to interference from
other wi-fi systems. Use a CAT5 cable (and a fast computah).


Yes we have that awareness of product speed , and the cable guy got
70 MBPs on his phone. That's still not what he is paying for.
As I said he had 200 MBPs, I talked him down to 100 MBPs, saying, "I
can stream all 3 firesticks and use my computer without buffering.
He only has one TV and his wife's cellphone to deal with.
I'll add, I have an old slower laptop, but when I speed test with wifi
on that at my home, I get the full 60 MPBs that I pay for.


I'm going to try a few things before he spends his money.
Mikek


Cable modems are fairly cheap. Cable gateways, which include a
router, wi-fi, switch, etc, are more expensive and difficult to find
legally.


He has the combo unit now a Netgear.

This is what I like and which might work if approved by the
cable ISP:
https://www.newegg.com/arris-sb6190-cable-modem/p/N82E16825694017


Cable guy a gave a little push to Arris.


However, since he's your neighbor, you could probably remove his
modem, and temporarily replace it with yours and see if it makes a
difference. If nothing changes, then replacing the modem will
probably not do anything useful.


Usually have to call the cable company and have them ping some info
to the modem when first installing.
Then I'd have to re ping it back at my house.
I have a different cable company, not positive mine is compatible with
his Comcast service. But I could check.


Check the power supply on the modem. I've seen those deterioriate
over the years and produce some really bizarre symptoms.

For signal levels, if the modem is by Arris/Motorola, point your web
browser to 192.168.100.1 and you'll get some signal level diagnostics.

NetGear, 192.168. 1.1 or 192.168. 0.1

Thanks Jeff, Mikek


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Old January 23rd 20, 03:15 AM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Posts: 3,956
Default Neighbor having ISP speed problems.

On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 16:11:41 -0600, amdx wrote:

On 1/22/2020 12:40 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 07:35:55 -0600, amdx wrote:


Quite a few years ago, they drove by my house and said it was singing.


Ummm... we were trying to fix your neighbors mess, not yours. Please
try not to confuse things (and me) by adding your mess to the soup.

All five wires running outside the house, no splitters in the attic.
They raised the maintenance fee to $5 the next month,


$1 per wire for a service contract. I gotta try that on my next
wiring bid to see if it works.

Now, I have cut the cord and have nice system for my antenna, and a
separate coax to my modem.


Modem as in cable modem? Just curious.

The last test was testing the speed at the end of the cable where it
would go into the router, Good.


I'm sorry this line was wrong, where I said speed, I should have said
signal strength.


Just ignore what I scribbled about having found the problem in the
neighbors wiring. However, this gives me a chance to try out my new
service "Remote Viewing and Diagnosis" where I sit in a contorted yoga
position, and try to visualize the problem. In my minds eye, I see
your neighbors cable wiring to be a tangle of rotting cables and badly
installed F connectors. Viewing the scene with my crystal ball
results in the same image, thus confirming my diagnosis. In order to
fix it, simply replace everything.

Use push-on connectors (that require a push on tool to install
properly), and not the ring crimp type.
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/antennas/Misc/slides/CATV-tools.html


Ya, I have one similar in style to the Apica, If we install new cable,
we can use it.


The Aprica compression connector tool is a problem. It's designed to
fit exactly one size of F-Connector. Each manufacturer has a
different size so as to lock in their larger customers into only using
their connectors and tools. I suggest you use Belden SNS1P6U (red)
connectors:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Thomas-Betts-RG6-Ultimate-Snap-N-Seal-Connectors-SNS1P6U-Pack-of-50/174156136846
You should be paying about $0.50 per connector. I prefer the orange
handle tool, which fits literally everything (including BNC and RCA
phono connectors) but does require some fiddling with the adjustments
to work correctly. Hmmm... I can't find it again on eBay. This looks
like a better version:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RG59-RG6-Universal-Adjustable-Compression-Crimp-Tool-Connector-CATV-RCA-BNC-F/232216467664

I even have a 500 ft spool of the orange cable the
company uses for direct burial.


Orange is for TEMPORARY cable drops.
https://forums.xfinity.com/t5/My-Account/ANSWERED-Got-an-Xfinity-orange-cable-in-your-yard/ta-p/2941167

I bought it the local metal scrapyard.
I suspect someone stole it and then sold it for the copper to the
scrapyard, I hope they didn't discard it because it was defective.


Temporary cable is usually not waterproof (gel filled and
non-penetrating jacket).

I got a couple of splitters from him before he left, one two way,
-3db, and another with -4.5db tap and the rest -7db. I wanted to insert
just to drop the signal level a little.


The two way (-3.5dB) is a splitter. The other one might be a cable
tap (directional coupler). You can probably use the splitter as a
-3.5dB attenuator if you put a 75 terminator on the unused port.

The cable guy tried to hard wire the computer, I wasn't there then, I
was told they think there is a bad connection in the modem, they had to
keep wiggling it to get a connection, but then they would lose it.


He's probably correct. I've seen it all too often. Some drops the
cable modem with the RG-6/u coax attached. It lands on the
F-connector and breaks the connection inside the tuner. That's
usually easy to fix. Tear it apart, lift the lid on the tuner, survey
the damage, and solder it back together. Extra credit for securing
the F-connector with epoxy (or hot melt glue).

I said "all 4 ethernet connectors?"


I can see why. Next time you write "bad connector", you might find it
more intelligible if you specify which connector. I'm assuming the
F-connector, but it looks like the unspecified modem is actually a
cable router or "gateway".

No answer for that. So, I also
want to take my laptop over and my cable and hard wire it.


Probably a good idea. Wiggle "the connector", any connector and see
what happens.

If it measures slow, I'll suggest we connect the modem outside where
the cable comes up out of the ground and see if it has proper speed.
If yes, then replace the cable in house.


Yep. The idea it to plug into the unspecified ISP's cable at the
point of entry so as to eliminate the entire house and everything in
it.

Cursitor had no effect in my lack of important data.
I did it all myself.


FON (fear of numbers) must be contagious. You can check if you have
FON. Just count how many product names, model numbers, version
numbers, measurement numbers, in your posting. If it's tiny compared
to the number of lines in the posting, you're doing badly and are
infected with FON. If all you see are numbers, then you are suffering
from hyper-FON, and are spewing too many numbers. An average of one
number per line is a good compromise.

First it was about 36*F outside and I took the garbage out and saw the
cable truck, so I wondered over to neighbors to supervise. ;-)


Got it. The garbage attracted the cable truck. I'll try that next
time the cable guy is late.

I didn't inspect the cable guys meter, it was two parts the measuring
device and a separate display. they were both in there bag or holder and
I didn't get a good look. By the time we got to a 300MHz bump it was
getting dark.


At what temperature do you start functioning normally?

If this goes any further, I'll answer 3 or 4 of your 5 questions.


I don't think it can go much further. I still don't know what
equipment you're working with or the basic system details.

Yes we have that awareness of product speed , and the cable guy got
70 MBPs on his phone.


That would be via wireless. So, the cable speed could 70Mbits/sec or
faster as the wireless connection is now the slowest part of the
system.

That's still not what he is paying for.
As I said he had 200 MBPs, I talked him down to 100 MBPs, saying, "I
can stream all 3 firesticks and use my computer without buffering.


You won't get 200 Mbits/sec on a wireless smartphone. 802.11ac can
theoretically do 500 Mbit/sec, but all I've seen is about half of
that.

He only has one TV and his wife's cellphone to deal with.


He has 3 Amazon Firesticks. One for the TV, but they don't fit in
cellphones. Where to the other 2 Firesticks go?

I'll add, I have an old slower laptop, but when I speed test with wifi
on that at my home, I get the full 60 MPBs that I pay for.


If you feel the urge, plug your fastest machine into a gigabit port on
your router, and run
iperf3 -s
to setup an iperf3 server. Then run iperf3 on one of your machines
and speed test you wi-fi and ethernet speeds. That takes the speed of
the cable out of the picture and only measures the speed of your
hardware. It should be faster than 60 Mbit/sec or it's NOT your cable
ISP that's slowing you down:
https://iperf.fr/iperf-download.php
Mo
https://www.google.com/search?q=iperf3

Drivel: I've been replacing older routers (i.e. Linksys EA2700) with
newer routers because they can't deliver the speeds that Comcast is
now providing. I've seen 300 Mbits/sec recently and the EA2700 can
barely deliver 90 Mbit/sec.

He has the combo unit now a Netgear.


Find a suitable recycler and buy a new modem (SB6190) and a separate
wireless router (Asus RT-AC68u with 802.11ac or better). He won't
like the price on the router, but methinks it's worth the price.
https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=100158096%204016

This is what I like and which might work if approved by the
cable ISP:
https://www.newegg.com/arris-sb6190-cable-modem/p/N82E16825694017


Cable guy a gave a little push to Arris.


Arris/Motorola have their problems, but I think they're good enough
and generally better than most. I buy quite a bit of refurbished
hardware including refurbished Arris cable modems. I have received
some lemons, but have always been able to exchange it for one that
works. Just be sure to update and test it on arrival.

Usually have to call the cable company and have them ping some info
to the modem when first installing.


Baloney. When you swap modems or routers with the neighbor, the cable
company thinks that the modem is still at his house. Nothing to
change or reset. The unspecified cable company has no way to know if
the modem is at the neighbors house or at your house, as long as
you're both on the same ISP, CMTS, and segment.

Then I'd have to re ping it back at my house.


Wrong. Also, ping is a latency test program, not a programming tool.

I have a different cable company, not positive mine is compatible with
his Comcast service. But I could check.


Hold it. If you have a different ISP, you can't move a modem or
router to another ISP. Got any more details you failed to mention
that might be important. If not, please cease mentioning your setup
as it just confuses the issue. We're trying to troubleshoot the
neighbors networks, not yours.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
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Old January 23rd 20, 08:36 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Neighbor having ISP speed problems.

On 1/22/2020 8:15 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 16:11:41 -0600, amdx wrote:

On 1/22/2020 12:40 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 07:35:55 -0600, amdx wrote:


Quite a few years ago, they drove by my house and said it was singing.


Ummm... we were trying to fix your neighbors mess, not yours. Please
try not to confuse things (and me) by adding your mess to the soup.

All five wires running outside the house, no splitters in the attic.
They raised the maintenance fee to $5 the next month,


$1 per wire for a service contract. I gotta try that on my next
wiring bid to see if it works.

Now, I have cut the cord and have nice system for my antenna, and a
separate coax to my modem.


Modem as in cable modem? Just curious.


It' a modem I connect to the cable to get internet. Cisco DPC3010, my
router is a TP-Link AC1900.
My daily driver is a 1997 Toyota T-1000, Ok I'm just playin with you
on the last one!


The last test was testing the speed at the end of the cable where it
would go into the router, Good.


I'm sorry this line was wrong, where I said speed, I should have said
signal strength.


Just ignore what I scribbled about having found the problem in the
neighbors wiring. However, this gives me a chance to try out my new
service "Remote Viewing and Diagnosis" where I sit in a contorted yoga
position, and try to visualize the problem. In my minds eye, I see
your neighbors cable wiring to be a tangle of rotting cables and badly
installed F connectors. Viewing the scene with my crystal ball
results in the same image, thus confirming my diagnosis. In order to
fix it, simply replace everything.

Still in troubleshooting mode, replace everything is last resort.
First thing, I'm going to try is reducing the signal strength. I know
that is not high on the probable list, but I got other feedback that
over driving a modem can slow them down.

Use push-on connectors (that require a push on tool to install
properly), and not the ring crimp type.
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/antennas/Misc/slides/CATV-tools.html


Ya, I have one similar in style to the Apica, If we install new cable,
we can use it.


The Aprica compression connector tool is a problem. It's designed to
fit exactly one size of F-Connector. Each manufacturer has a
different size so as to lock in their larger customers into only using
their connectors and tools. I suggest you use Belden SNS1P6U (red)
connectors:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Thomas-Betts-RG6-Ultimate-Snap-N-Seal-Connectors-SNS1P6U-Pack-of-50/174156136846
You should be paying about $0.50 per connector. I prefer the orange
handle tool, which fits literally everything (including BNC and RCA
phono connectors) but does require some fiddling with the adjustments
to work correctly. Hmmm... I can't find it again on eBay. This looks
like a better version:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RG59-RG6-Universal-Adjustable-Compression-Crimp-Tool-Connector-CATV-RCA-BNC-F/232216467664


It's always something.

I even have a 500 ft spool of the orange cable the
company uses for direct burial.


Orange is for TEMPORARY cable drops.
https://forums.xfinity.com/t5/My-Account/ANSWERED-Got-an-Xfinity-orange-cable-in-your-yard/ta-p/2941167

Around here it gets buried after laying in the yard long enough to
generate enough complaints. After I cut my neighbors cable while
installing a sprinkler line, ( I called to report it, they said they'd
wait until it came from their customer.) It took almost a year for
enough water getting in to generate the complaint. Then they laid the
oraange wire from the box in my yard across the neighbors driveway and
into the house. We mowed over it for 9 months before I buried the part
in my yard, and it still runs across the neighbors drive more than 2
years later.

I bought it the local metal scrapyard.
I suspect someone stole it and then sold it for the copper to the
scrapyard, I hope they didn't discard it because it was defective.


Temporary cable is usually not waterproof (gel filled and
non-penetrating jacket).

I got a couple of splitters from him before he left, one two way,
-3db, and another with -4.5db tap and the rest -7db. I wanted to insert
just to drop the signal level a little.


The two way (-3.5dB) is a splitter. The other one might be a cable
tap (directional coupler). You can probably use the splitter as a
-3.5dB attenuator if you put a 75 terminator on the unused port.

The cable guy tried to hard wire the computer, I wasn't there then, I
was told they think there is a bad connection in the modem, they had to
keep wiggling it to get a connection, but then they would lose it.


He's probably correct. I've seen it all too often. Some drops the
cable modem with the RG-6/u coax attached. It lands on the
F-connector and breaks the connection inside the tuner. That's
usually easy to fix. Tear it apart, lift the lid on the tuner, survey
the damage, and solder it back together. Extra credit for securing
the F-connector with epoxy (or hot melt glue).


I fixed more than 100 of those torn out F connectors on VCRs.


I said "all 4 ethernet connectors?"


I can see why. Next time you write "bad connector", you might find it
more intelligible if you specify which connector. I'm assuming the
F-connector, but it looks like the unspecified modem is actually a
cable router or "gateway".


You need a mind reading course!
No it was the ethernet connectors, it has 4 of them. I talked with the
neighbor today, he said they actually tried all 4 connectors and all
4 did not work properly.

No answer for that. So, I also
want to take my laptop over and my cable and hard wire it.


Probably a good idea. Wiggle "the connector", any connector and see
what happens.

If it measures slow, I'll suggest we connect the modem outside where
the cable comes up out of the ground and see if it has proper speed.
If yes, then replace the cable in house.


Yep. The idea it to plug into the unspecified ISP's cable at the
point of entry so as to eliminate the entire house and everything in
it.

Cursitor had no effect in my lack of important data.
I did it all myself.


FON (fear of numbers) must be contagious. You can check if you have
FON. Just count how many product names, model numbers, version
numbers, measurement numbers, in your posting. If it's tiny compared
to the number of lines in the posting, you're doing badly and are
infected with FON. If all you see are numbers, then you are suffering
from hyper-FON, and are spewing too many numbers. An average of one
number per line is a good compromise.

First it was about 36*F outside and I took the garbage out and saw the
cable truck, so I wondered over to neighbors to supervise. ;-)


Got it. The garbage attracted the cable truck. I'll try that next
time the cable guy is late.

I was at the house when my neighbor called the cable company, they
went through several procedures trying to fix his problem and couldn't.
They said because your such a loyal customer (ahem) we want to send a
truck out today, will between 3 and 6 be OK. Great. So they never showed
up. He called the next day and they did show up.

I didn't inspect the cable guys meter, it was two parts the measuring
device and a separate display. they were both in there bag or holder and
I didn't get a good look. By the time we got to a 300MHz bump it was
getting dark.


At what temperature do you start functioning normally?


Do you mean now or 30 years ago?
My wife might even question if I ever function normally.



If this goes any further, I'll answer 3 or 4 of your 5 questions.


I don't think it can go much further. I still don't know what
equipment you're working with or the basic system details.

Yes we have that awareness of product speed , and the cable guy got
70 MBPs on his phone.


That would be via wireless. So, the cable speed could 70Mbits/sec or
faster as the wireless connection is now the slowest part of the
system.

That's still not what he is paying for.
As I said he had 200 MBPs, I talked him down to 100 MBPs, saying, "I
can stream all 3 firesticks and use my computer without buffering.


You won't get 200 Mbits/sec on a wireless smartphone. 802.11ac can
theoretically do 500 Mbit/sec, but all I've seen is about half of
that.

He only has one TV and his wife's cellphone to deal with.


He has 3 Amazon Firesticks. One for the TV, but they don't fit in
cellphones. Where to the other 2 Firesticks go?

OK, I gave out useless info, I'm the one with 3 Firesticks.
He has one TV with a firestick and his wife's phone, also has a laptop,
but not used much.

I'll add, I have an old slower laptop, but when I speed test with wifi
on that at my home, I get the full 60 MPBs that I pay for.


If you feel the urge, plug your fastest machine into a gigabit port on
your router, and run
iperf3 -s
to setup an iperf3 server. Then run iperf3 on one of your machines
and speed test you wi-fi and ethernet speeds. That takes the speed of
the cable out of the picture and only measures the speed of your
hardware. It should be faster than 60 Mbit/sec or it's NOT your cable
ISP that's slowing you down:
https://iperf.fr/iperf-download.php
Mo
https://www.google.com/search?q=iperf3

Drivel: I've been replacing older routers (i.e. Linksys EA2700) with
newer routers because they can't deliver the speeds that Comcast is
now providing. I've seen 300 Mbits/sec recently and the EA2700 can
barely deliver 90 Mbit/sec.

He has the combo unit now a Netgear.


Find a suitable recycler and buy a new modem (SB6190) and a separate
wireless router (Asus RT-AC68u with 802.11ac or better). He won't
like the price on the router, but methinks it's worth the price.
https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=100158096%204016

This is what I like and which might work if approved by the
cable ISP:
https://www.newegg.com/arris-sb6190-cable-modem/p/N82E16825694017


Cable guy a gave a little push to Arris.


Arris/Motorola have their problems, but I think they're good enough
and generally better than most. I buy quite a bit of refurbished
hardware including refurbished Arris cable modems. I have received
some lemons, but have always been able to exchange it for one that
works. Just be sure to update and test it on arrival.

Usually have to call the cable company and have them ping some info
to the modem when first installing.


Baloney. When you swap modems or routers with the neighbor, the cable
company thinks that the modem is still at his house. Nothing to
change or reset. The unspecified cable company has no way to know if
the modem is at the neighbors house or at your house, as long as
you're both on the same ISP, CMTS, and segment.


WE aren't with the same company.

Then I'd have to re ping it back at my house.


Wrong. Also, ping is a latency test program, not a programming tool.

I have a different cable company, not positive mine is compatible with
his Comcast service. But I could check.


Hold it. If you have a different ISP, you can't move a modem or
router to another ISP. Got any more details you failed to mention
that might be important. If not, please cease mentioning your setup
as it just confuses the issue. We're trying to troubleshoot the
neighbors networks, not yours.


My neighbor is a Southerner and talks pretty slow, sometimes hard to
understand. I played interference to help the cable people on the phone.
When I was showing him how to use the remote on the Firestick, when we
got to Alexa, I said, "push that button and name a movie." He pushed it
and in his Southern drawl named what I expect was a movie. I reacted by
saying, "give me that remote, she's never going top understand what you
said," and she didn't. I was a little embarrassed at what I said and his
girlfriend/wife was sitting in her seat laughing about it.
Other than that, nothing to add at this time, he gets Mondays off, so,
I'll know something after that.
Thanks for your patience and your fountain of unending knowledge,
Mikek




  #9   Report Post  
Old January 23rd 20, 09:02 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Apr 2016
Posts: 380
Default Neighbor having ISP speed problems.

On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 9:15:42 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 16:11:41 -0600, amdx wrote:

On 1/22/2020 12:40 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 07:35:55 -0600, amdx wrote:


Quite a few years ago, they drove by my house and said it was singing.


Ummm... we were trying to fix your neighbors mess, not yours. Please
try not to confuse things (and me) by adding your mess to the soup.

All five wires running outside the house, no splitters in the attic.
They raised the maintenance fee to $5 the next month,


$1 per wire for a service contract. I gotta try that on my next
wiring bid to see if it works.

Now, I have cut the cord and have nice system for my antenna, and a
separate coax to my modem.


Modem as in cable modem? Just curious.

The last test was testing the speed at the end of the cable where it
would go into the router, Good.


I'm sorry this line was wrong, where I said speed, I should have said
signal strength.


Just ignore what I scribbled about having found the problem in the
neighbors wiring. However, this gives me a chance to try out my new
service "Remote Viewing and Diagnosis" where I sit in a contorted yoga
position, and try to visualize the problem. In my minds eye, I see
your neighbors cable wiring to be a tangle of rotting cables and badly
installed F connectors. Viewing the scene with my crystal ball
results in the same image, thus confirming my diagnosis. In order to
fix it, simply replace everything.

Use push-on connectors (that require a push on tool to install
properly), and not the ring crimp type.
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/antennas/Misc/slides/CATV-tools.html


Ya, I have one similar in style to the Apica, If we install new cable,
we can use it.


The Aprica compression connector tool is a problem.


I've often wondered why techs hardly ever use crimp tools for F connectors when they're finished hooking up coax. Then, everything is well shielded from the outside stuff. Unless they lost one and don't want to buy a new compression tool.
  #10   Report Post  
Old January 23rd 20, 10:19 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Posts: 3,956
Default Neighbor having ISP speed problems.

On Thu, 23 Jan 2020 12:02:50 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

I've often wondered why techs hardly ever use crimp tools
for F connectors when they're finished hooking up coax.
Then, everything is well shielded from the outside stuff.
Unless they lost one and don't want to buy a new
compression tool.


Y're mixing up crimp and compression connectors. This is a crimp
connector, which should be avoided:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0775/8455/products/200-010_1024x1024.jpg
If you see one of these, cut off the crimp connector and replace it
with a compression connector.

These are various Belden/T&B compression connectors. The video
explains how it works:
"Belden SNS1P6U Ultimate F-Type Snap & Seal - RG6 Universal"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW3L61ydvzM (1:41)
Unless I run into something really strange, I use the "red"
compression connectors, which fit most of the common stuff. Notice in
the video how the metal connector and the plastic sleeve are
compressed with the tool to grip the coax. That's what holds the
connector together so that no crimp ring is required.

The strength of a compression connector is good enough to survive
someone tripping over the cable and possibly survive a 2 year old with
a bad case of "grabby paws". Unfortunately, it's also stronger than
whatever holds the F-connector in place inside the set top box, modem,
DVR, TV, etc. The result is instead of the connector sacrificing
itself so that the set top box will survive, the F-connector
receptacle breaks from its mounting inside the tuner can. I carry a
few of these push-on adapters, which I install in locations where I'm
sure the resident big foot is going to trip over the cable.
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/SiYAAOSwZVlXsvES/s-l300.jpg

--
Jeff Liebermann

150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558


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