Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems.

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Default Washing machine info ...

Anyone know of a free site UK-side, that archives service info for domestic
appliances ? My Hotpoint WMA64 washing machine has gone belly up today. Drum
motor doesn't run on wash, rise or spin. Probably just motor brushes, but
the motor is right underneath, and I didn't have time to prat about with it
today. A basic wiring diagram might be handy, if it turns out to be not
directly related to the motor itself

Arfa

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On Mar 29, 8:23*pm, "Arfa Daily" wrote:
Anyone know of a free site UK-side, that archives service info for domestic
appliances ? My Hotpoint WMA64 washing machine has gone belly up today. Drum
motor doesn't run on wash, rise or spin. Probably just motor brushes, but
the motor is right underneath, and I didn't have time to prat about with it
today. A basic wiring diagram might be handy, if it turns out to be not
directly related to the motor itself

Arfa


I don't know how it is in the UK but over here Hotpoint is made by GE.
Being a former GE employee I've owned many GE appliances and have
always found a small package tucked in somewhere with service
information. This usually includes a schematic as well. Look for a
small envelope of some kind. With the schematic you'll be able to see
the segments on the timer, (hopefully it's a mechanical one) and then
be able to troubleshoot it. Good luck, Lenny
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Arfa Daily wrote in message
...
Anyone know of a free site UK-side, that archives service info for

domestic
appliances ? My Hotpoint WMA64 washing machine has gone belly up today.

Drum
motor doesn't run on wash, rise or spin. Probably just motor brushes, but
the motor is right underneath, and I didn't have time to prat about with

it
today. A basic wiring diagram might be handy, if it turns out to be not
directly related to the motor itself

Arfa



Beware of jagged metalwork , cover over/ tape down all such with something,
before working inside it


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Default Washing machine info ...

N_Cook wrote:

Arfa Daily wrote in message
...

Anyone know of a free site UK-side, that archives service info for


domestic

appliances ? My Hotpoint WMA64 washing machine has gone belly up today.


Drum

motor doesn't run on wash, rise or spin. Probably just motor brushes, but
the motor is right underneath, and I didn't have time to prat about with


it

today. A basic wiring diagram might be handy, if it turns out to be not
directly related to the motor itself

Arfa




Beware of jagged metalwork , cover over/ tape down all such with something,
before working inside it


Oh, those were the one's they laid off. The one's that cleaned up those
issues before assembly. Look at the money they saved!

Not to worry though, I am sure they have it written up some where
that only qualified service centers should work on the appliance, and
the service center has a big disclaimer on the manual indicating to use
gloves while servicing, there by, removing all liability from the maker.

Jamie


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Default Washing machine info ...



"Jamie" t wrote in message
...
N_Cook wrote:

Arfa Daily wrote in message
...

Anyone know of a free site UK-side, that archives service info for


domestic

appliances ? My Hotpoint WMA64 washing machine has gone belly up today.


Drum

motor doesn't run on wash, rise or spin. Probably just motor brushes, but
the motor is right underneath, and I didn't have time to prat about with


it

today. A basic wiring diagram might be handy, if it turns out to be not
directly related to the motor itself

Arfa




Beware of jagged metalwork , cover over/ tape down all such with
something,
before working inside it


Oh, those were the one's they laid off. The one's that cleaned up those
issues before assembly. Look at the money they saved!

Not to worry though, I am sure they have it written up some where that
only qualified service centers should work on the appliance, and the
service center has a big disclaimer on the manual indicating to use gloves
while servicing, there by, removing all liability from the maker.

Jamie


As it happens, it is the brushes, and it's not too difficult a job to
replace them. Unfortunately, the place that I used to get such items from
locally, has closed its doors, so I have finished up ordering direct from
the Hotpoint online spares centre.

Arfa



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Default Washing machine info ...


Arfa Daily wrote:

As it happens, it is the brushes, and it's not too difficult a job to
replace them. Unfortunately, the place that I used to get such items from
locally, has closed its doors, so I have finished up ordering direct from
the Hotpoint online spares centre.



How long do those brushes last? The old induction motorsran for
decades. I pulled the working motor out of my mom's worn out dryer
years ago. It was bought new in '57. I mad a stand for it, and added an
arbor to use it for a grinder. It was still running 50 years after it
was built.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.
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Default Washing machine info ...

Arfa Daily wrote:



"Jamie" t wrote in
message ...

N_Cook wrote:

Arfa Daily wrote in message
...

Anyone know of a free site UK-side, that archives service info for


domestic

appliances ? My Hotpoint WMA64 washing machine has gone belly up today.


Drum

motor doesn't run on wash, rise or spin. Probably just motor
brushes, but
the motor is right underneath, and I didn't have time to prat about
with


it

today. A basic wiring diagram might be handy, if it turns out to be not
directly related to the motor itself

Arfa




Beware of jagged metalwork , cover over/ tape down all such with
something,
before working inside it


Oh, those were the one's they laid off. The one's that cleaned up
those issues before assembly. Look at the money they saved!

Not to worry though, I am sure they have it written up some where
that only qualified service centers should work on the appliance, and
the service center has a big disclaimer on the manual indicating to
use gloves while servicing, there by, removing all liability from the
maker.

Jamie


As it happens, it is the brushes, and it's not too difficult a job to
replace them. Unfortunately, the place that I used to get such items
from locally, has closed its doors, so I have finished up ordering
direct from the Hotpoint online spares centre.

Arfa


It seems that brushed motors are being used more now, especially in
Europe.

The last unit I had my eyes on was a multispeed, exotic functional
washing machine. It was a variable speed AC motor with no brushes. The
drive control board had half of the output fets shorted in it. He told
me that it was giving them problems in starting and it finally gave up.

So after a bad motor was also found and a bad drive board, it got tossed.

Jamie


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"klem kedidelhopper" wrote in message
...
On Mar 29, 8:23 pm, "Arfa Daily" wrote:
Anyone know of a free site UK-side, that archives service info for
domestic
appliances ? My Hotpoint WMA64 washing machine has gone belly up today.
Drum
motor doesn't run on wash, rise or spin. Probably just motor brushes, but
the motor is right underneath, and I didn't have time to prat about with
it
today. A basic wiring diagram might be handy, if it turns out to be not
directly related to the motor itself

Arfa


I don't know how it is in the UK but over here Hotpoint is made by GE.
Being a former GE employee I've owned many GE appliances and have
always found a small package tucked in somewhere with service
information. This usually includes a schematic as well. Look for a
small envelope of some kind. With the schematic you'll be able to see
the segments on the timer, (hopefully it's a mechanical one) and then
be able to troubleshoot it. Good luck, Lenny


Hi Lenny. Not sure who actually makes them now. It used to be Hotpoint
themselves. I seem to think that they had a factory over in Wales, but I
could be wrong about that. I've owned this machine for quite some time, and
there is definitely no schematics or other info anywhere inside it. The
programmer is actually fully electronic, and is the driver board as well,
but at least it's not mounted anywhere to get wet, as some of the earlier
drive boards were.

The problem is actually the motor brushes, so I have some on order from the
Hotpoint online service site, where they are half the price of other online
suppliers. I used to be able to get them from a little domestic appliance
shop and service centre here in the village where I live, but the guy who
ran it has retired, and it is now his wife and daughter's dog grooming
business.

Brushes should arrive today, so hopefully get them fitted in. Starting to
run short of clean clothes ... !

Arfa

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"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

Arfa Daily wrote:

As it happens, it is the brushes, and it's not too difficult a job to
replace them. Unfortunately, the place that I used to get such items from
locally, has closed its doors, so I have finished up ordering direct from
the Hotpoint online spares centre.



How long do those brushes last? The old induction motorsran for
decades. I pulled the working motor out of my mom's worn out dryer
years ago. It was bought new in '57. I mad a stand for it, and added an
arbor to use it for a grinder. It was still running 50 years after it
was built.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.


The machine is used pretty much every day at least once for washing the
aprons and dish towels from our food businesses, and twice or more if there
is household clothes washing to do as well. I would guess that we have owned
this model for probably 10 years, and this is the first set of brushes that
I can recall it having, so you work it out ! We had a Hotpoint before this
one, and we probably had that one 15 or more years, through all of the kids'
growing up and school years, so heavily used, and I remember getting brushes
for that from the village store, twice.

Arfa

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Default Washing machine info ...



"Jamie" t wrote in message
...
Arfa Daily wrote:



"Jamie" t wrote in
message ...

N_Cook wrote:

Arfa Daily wrote in message
...

Anyone know of a free site UK-side, that archives service info for


domestic

appliances ? My Hotpoint WMA64 washing machine has gone belly up
today.


Drum

motor doesn't run on wash, rise or spin. Probably just motor brushes,
but
the motor is right underneath, and I didn't have time to prat about
with


it

today. A basic wiring diagram might be handy, if it turns out to be
not
directly related to the motor itself

Arfa




Beware of jagged metalwork , cover over/ tape down all such with
something,
before working inside it


Oh, those were the one's they laid off. The one's that cleaned up those
issues before assembly. Look at the money they saved!

Not to worry though, I am sure they have it written up some where that
only qualified service centers should work on the appliance, and the
service center has a big disclaimer on the manual indicating to use
gloves while servicing, there by, removing all liability from the maker.

Jamie


As it happens, it is the brushes, and it's not too difficult a job to
replace them. Unfortunately, the place that I used to get such items from
locally, has closed its doors, so I have finished up ordering direct from
the Hotpoint online spares centre.

Arfa


It seems that brushed motors are being used more now, especially in
Europe.

The last unit I had my eyes on was a multispeed, exotic functional
washing machine. It was a variable speed AC motor with no brushes. The
drive control board had half of the output fets shorted in it. He told
me that it was giving them problems in starting and it finally gave up.

So after a bad motor was also found and a bad drive board, it got
tossed.

Jamie


I don't think that in 35 years of owning washing machines, I have ever had
one with anything other than a "universal" (as in field coils and armature
in series) brush-geared motor fitted for drum drive. Mostly the pump motors
are brushless induction motors, and certainly, all of the tumble dryers that
I have owned have had induction motor drive.

Bear in mind that in the UK, unlike in the U.S. , we went straight from
twin-tub machines, with a vertical actuator in a static tub, and a vertical
spin dryer, to front loading 'automatics'. Very considerable oomph is needed
to shift a horizontal rotating drum full of water and washing, and even more
to get it up to 1000 RPM and beyond, for spin drying. I'm not sure that a
compact induction motor would have the power and revs range to be able to do
that. Not so easy to control the rotation direction either for the
anti-tangle reversing washing action. At least I have always assumed that
was the reason that brush-geared motors were used in these machines ??

Arfa



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Default Washing machine info ...

On 03/04/2012 01:36, Arfa Daily wrote:

I don't think that in 35 years of owning washing machines, I have ever
had one with anything other than a "universal" (as in field coils and
armature in series) brush-geared motor fitted for drum drive. Mostly the
pump motors are brushless induction motors, and certainly, all of the
tumble dryers that I have owned have had induction motor drive.

Bear in mind that in the UK, unlike in the U.S. , we went straight from
twin-tub machines, with a vertical actuator in a static tub, and a
vertical spin dryer, to front loading 'automatics'. Very considerable
oomph is needed to shift a horizontal rotating drum full of water and
washing, and even more to get it up to 1000 RPM and beyond, for spin
drying. I'm not sure that a compact induction motor would have the power
and revs range to be able to do that. Not so easy to control the
rotation direction either for the anti-tangle reversing washing action.
At least I have always assumed that was the reason that brush-geared
motors were used in these machines ??

Arfa


Hi Arfa

I spent over 20 years repairing domestic appliances. You are right about
the twintub/front loader thing. A couple of manufacturers made top
loaders, Hotpoint, which was a huge machine used a very complicated
gearbox and centrifugal clutch arrangement - when the motor ran in one
direction it agitated the washing, and circulated the water, and in the
other direction spun the drum and drained out. All relatively trouble free.

Philips made a compact top loader with a low voltage DC motor (using the
heating element as a dropper resistor) and a silly bakelite centrifugal
clutch and variable cone drive. The drum was similar to a front loader
but mounted sideways with a hatch in the periphery.

Most if not all British front loaders used brushed motors, continental
machines generally used induction motors using capacitor control.
A couple of exceptions were Indesit and Zanussi which used brushed
motors in their high spin speed machines, I think about 800 rpm was
about the limit with an induction motor.

The few Brit machines which used induction motors - Hotpoint twintub and
top loader - used a 'relay' in series with the field coil to momentarily
energise the starting windings. If the relay stuck the magic smoke was
released!

I have no idea how many pairs of Hotpoint/Hoover/Servis/ motor brushes
I`ve changed, but it must be many many hundreds.

You can readily get service manuals for all Hotpoint machines btw.

Ron


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"Ron" wrote in message
...
On 03/04/2012 01:36, Arfa Daily wrote:

I don't think that in 35 years of owning washing machines, I have ever
had one with anything other than a "universal" (as in field coils and
armature in series) brush-geared motor fitted for drum drive. Mostly the
pump motors are brushless induction motors, and certainly, all of the
tumble dryers that I have owned have had induction motor drive.

Bear in mind that in the UK, unlike in the U.S. , we went straight from
twin-tub machines, with a vertical actuator in a static tub, and a
vertical spin dryer, to front loading 'automatics'. Very considerable
oomph is needed to shift a horizontal rotating drum full of water and
washing, and even more to get it up to 1000 RPM and beyond, for spin
drying. I'm not sure that a compact induction motor would have the power
and revs range to be able to do that. Not so easy to control the
rotation direction either for the anti-tangle reversing washing action.
At least I have always assumed that was the reason that brush-geared
motors were used in these machines ??

Arfa


Hi Arfa

I spent over 20 years repairing domestic appliances. You are right about
the twintub/front loader thing. A couple of manufacturers made top
loaders, Hotpoint, which was a huge machine used a very complicated
gearbox and centrifugal clutch arrangement - when the motor ran in one
direction it agitated the washing, and circulated the water, and in the
other direction spun the drum and drained out. All relatively trouble
free.

Philips made a compact top loader with a low voltage DC motor (using the
heating element as a dropper resistor) and a silly bakelite centrifugal
clutch and variable cone drive. The drum was similar to a front loader but
mounted sideways with a hatch in the periphery.

Most if not all British front loaders used brushed motors, continental
machines generally used induction motors using capacitor control.
A couple of exceptions were Indesit and Zanussi which used brushed motors
in their high spin speed machines, I think about 800 rpm was about the
limit with an induction motor.

The few Brit machines which used induction motors - Hotpoint twintub and
top loader - used a 'relay' in series with the field coil to momentarily
energise the starting windings. If the relay stuck the magic smoke was
released!

I have no idea how many pairs of Hotpoint/Hoover/Servis/ motor brushes
I`ve changed, but it must be many many hundreds.

You can readily get service manuals for all Hotpoint machines btw.

Ron


Hi Ron. All interesting stuff. The brushes were taken out by my mate who was
here fixing my son's car whilst I was out. He took them off the motor by
leaning the machine over at 45 degrees, and taking them out from underneath.
Not so easy putting the new ones back in that way, because they are about
1.5" inches long with new springs behind them. Also, because the carriers
are inclined at about 45 deg on the motor frame, the new brushes have a
similar 45 deg 'rake' machined on the end of them so that they sit 'square'
on the commutator. It was like trying to force a jack-in-the-box into a bean
can, and getting the screws back in from that angle was nigh on impossible.
Eventually, I just took the motor out, as it was only two bolts. Then very
easy to do out on the bench. I turned the machine right over on its side to
refit it. All worked ok, so all back together now and back in service :-)

So where can you get Hotpoint service manuals ?

Arfa

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On 04/04/2012 01:31, Arfa Daily wrote:


"Ron" wrote in message
...
On 03/04/2012 01:36, Arfa Daily wrote:

I don't think that in 35 years of owning washing machines, I have ever
had one with anything other than a "universal" (as in field coils and
armature in series) brush-geared motor fitted for drum drive. Mostly the
pump motors are brushless induction motors, and certainly, all of the
tumble dryers that I have owned have had induction motor drive.

Bear in mind that in the UK, unlike in the U.S. , we went straight from
twin-tub machines, with a vertical actuator in a static tub, and a
vertical spin dryer, to front loading 'automatics'. Very considerable
oomph is needed to shift a horizontal rotating drum full of water and
washing, and even more to get it up to 1000 RPM and beyond, for spin
drying. I'm not sure that a compact induction motor would have the power
and revs range to be able to do that. Not so easy to control the
rotation direction either for the anti-tangle reversing washing action.
At least I have always assumed that was the reason that brush-geared
motors were used in these machines ??

Arfa


Hi Arfa

I spent over 20 years repairing domestic appliances. You are right
about the twintub/front loader thing. A couple of manufacturers made
top loaders, Hotpoint, which was a huge machine used a very
complicated gearbox and centrifugal clutch arrangement - when the
motor ran in one direction it agitated the washing, and circulated the
water, and in the other direction spun the drum and drained out. All
relatively trouble free.

Philips made a compact top loader with a low voltage DC motor (using
the heating element as a dropper resistor) and a silly bakelite
centrifugal clutch and variable cone drive. The drum was similar to a
front loader but mounted sideways with a hatch in the periphery.

Most if not all British front loaders used brushed motors, continental
machines generally used induction motors using capacitor control.
A couple of exceptions were Indesit and Zanussi which used brushed
motors in their high spin speed machines, I think about 800 rpm was
about the limit with an induction motor.

The few Brit machines which used induction motors - Hotpoint twintub
and top loader - used a 'relay' in series with the field coil to
momentarily energise the starting windings. If the relay stuck the
magic smoke was released!

I have no idea how many pairs of Hotpoint/Hoover/Servis/ motor brushes
I`ve changed, but it must be many many hundreds.

You can readily get service manuals for all Hotpoint machines btw.

Ron


Hi Ron. All interesting stuff. The brushes were taken out by my mate who
was here fixing my son's car whilst I was out. He took them off the
motor by leaning the machine over at 45 degrees, and taking them out
from underneath. Not so easy putting the new ones back in that way,
because they are about 1.5" inches long with new springs behind them.
Also, because the carriers are inclined at about 45 deg on the motor
frame, the new brushes have a similar 45 deg 'rake' machined on the end
of them so that they sit 'square' on the commutator. It was like trying
to force a jack-in-the-box into a bean can, and getting the screws back
in from that angle was nigh on impossible. Eventually, I just took the
motor out, as it was only two bolts. Then very easy to do out on the
bench. I turned the machine right over on its side to refit it. All
worked ok, so all back together now and back in service :-)

So where can you get Hotpoint service manuals ?

Arfa


I can't for the life of me remember where I used to get them from,
possibly Willow Vale or Electrue - which are now both assimilated into
Connect Services, but I think Hotpoint themselves will sell you one.
Whenever one of the local appliance engineers got a new manual, we would
make copies for the rest of us.

Ron
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