I used to own a pair of flush cutters where the jaws and the handles met at
about a 45-degree angle. Made for a nice tool for getting in between
components when you needed to nip something off flush with the PCB.

I think they were Xcelite.

I can't find anything like those Xcelites anymore. Everything is either
straight (no angle between the jaws and handles) or maybe a slight angle.

Anyone know of a good cutter that has a 45-degree angle? Flush-cut desirable
but not critical. A 1/2" (12 mm) jaw opening would be nice, though.

Thanks,
Dave

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=wire+nipper

"wire nipper" just gives me millions of hits. Adding "45 degree" is what I
need. And already did. Hence my question here.

I have a newer pair of Xcelite nippers. If the above link does you no
good I'll grab them when I get back to the shop and post the part
number.

Are they 45-degree type? Yes, I'd appreciate a pn.

Thanks!

"DaveC" wrote in message
...
I used to own a pair of flush cutters where the jaws and the handles met at
about a 45-degree angle. Made for a nice tool for getting in between
components when you needed to nip something off flush with the PCB.

http://www.restockit.com/4-Angled-Fc... 1&Bvar7=100F1

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:29:29 -0800, DaveC wrote:

I used to own a pair of flush cutters where the jaws and the handles met at
about a 45-degree angle. Made for a nice tool for getting in between
components when you needed to nip something off flush with the PCB.

I think they were Xcelite.

I can't find anything like those Xcelites anymore. Everything is either
straight (no angle between the jaws and handles) or maybe a slight angle.

Anyone know of a good cutter that has a 45-degree angle? Flush-cut desirable
but not critical. A 1/2" (12 mm) jaw opening would be nice, though.

Thanks,
Dave


Such tools are still around, but I have never seen a flush cutter that
had a half inch long cutting jaw. Ever.

Try hunting up Lindstrom on ebay if you want the absolute best Swiss
steel hand tools. Not cheap.

Alternatively, Xcelite dies still exist and they as well as a few other
inhabit the bottom of the market, from a quality POV.

Regular flush cutters are cheap steel, don't last long, and only cost
about $8 each, so they get bought by the case in boxes of ten.

The angled pair are usually single sales items though. The bottom end
has them for about $5 more each, and the top end has them at a similar
price to all the others because they are all expensive at that level.

They are also worth it.

If you want a pair that will last decades, and is fully serviceable,
and uses the hardest steel and tightest tolerances, Lindstrom shares no
equal. Well worth the typical $35 - $55 a pair.

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 14:24:22 -0500, Meat Plow wrote:

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:37:15 -0800, DaveC wrote:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=wire+nipper

"wire nipper" just gives me millions of hits. Adding "45 degree" is what I
need. And already did. Hence my question here.

Most nippers are 45, diag cutters are a totally different animal.

Not true. "nippers" are various, and there "norm" varies from USER to
USER, and no, the industry does not "usually use 45 degree" as was
inferred by your remark. Most were.... AT the ******** you were at at
the time.

Most at two of the places I have been were the other variety. You
probably knew that was an incorrect statement, the moment you hit the
period key.

I have a newer pair of Xcelite nippers. If the above link does you no
good I'll grab them when I get back to the shop and post the part
number.

Are they 45-degree type? Yes, I'd appreciate a pn.

Thanks!

Xcelite 170M

:http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/xc...3900?ref=gbase

The Lindstroms are worth the extra outlay if a long term, personal tool
is desired. For a production level, multi-user tool, the lower quality
steel, shorter life span brands are cheaper and are the better value for
such a setting. It just depends on who the tool is for, how well they
take care of their tools, and the term you wish the tool to last for.

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:31:18 -0500, "Rich." wrote:


"DaveC" wrote in message
al-september.org...
I used to own a pair of flush cutters where the jaws and the handles met at
about a 45-degree angle. Made for a nice tool for getting in between
components when you needed to nip something off flush with the PCB.


Jeez, for $27 plus tax and shipping? Damn. For about $5 more, you can
simply buy the best steel in the world. Lindstrom.

If you are putting out that much already, what is adding 5% for a
twofold gain in quality?

If you do not want to spend that much, the cheap Xcelite, and Plato
brands, etc. are the right choice, and you shouldn't spend more than $12
each for a ten pack of them. Also worth it. If you are buying the
cheaper brands, you should buy at least two, if not the ten pack, because
they will wear due to the softer steels used. The Swiss brand will last
forever or until you break them via some form of abuse or other.

On Feb 11, 2:39*am, Sansui Samari wrote:
I cobbed a bunch of lindstrom cutters and pliers from a place I worked
at years ago. *They were going belly up and tossed out boxes of the
things. *I'm still using the few that I haven't given away or broken.
As long as you don't use them to cut steal (hence the broken cutters)
they are awesome. I wish I would have grabbed more.

Were they going belly up because of buying only the finest, or despite
of that?

At the liquidation sales for some bankrupt companies, sometimes
I have seen hard, tangeable evidence of WHY they went broke.

Fred Abse wrote:

Golden rule: Never, under any circumstances, lend cutters to *anyone*.
Never let them out of your sight / control.

That in my humble opionion is just plain silly. If you refuse to lend people
tools when they ask, they wait until you are not looking and borrow them
anyway.

The best thing to do, IMHO is to buy several sets of medium grade tools, i.e.
cheap but not the best. Still capable of doing the job, but nothing you would
worry about if it came back unusable.

Then you leave one set around for people to borrow and lend them
out agressively.

The good tools you keep locked up and never even let them know you have them.

:-)

I used to have a guy who worked for me part time who was constantly having
his tools stolen. From screwdrivers to floor pullers. I just bought a bunch of
screwdrivers for him and on his days off, I went around and collected them
from where he left them.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
New word I coined 12/13/09, "Sub-Wikipedia" adj, describing knowledge or
understanding, as in he has a sub-wikipedia understanding of the situation.
i.e possessing less facts or information than can be found in the Wikipedia.

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 02:38:26 -0800 (PST), Greegor
wrote:

On Feb 11, 2:39*am, Sansui Samari wrote:
I cobbed a bunch of lindstrom cutters and pliers from a place I worked
at years ago. *They were going belly up and tossed out boxes of the
things. *I'm still using the few that I haven't given away or broken.
As long as you don't use them to cut steal (hence the broken cutters)
they are awesome. I wish I would have grabbed more.

Were they going belly up because of buying only the finest, or despite
of that?

At the liquidation sales for some bankrupt companies, sometimes
I have seen hard, tangeable evidence of WHY they went broke.


I think you assign "hard and tangible" to others when it can be
assigned to you. Hard and tangible evidence that your statistical
analysis prowess ain't that great.

If the difference between buying $600 worth of cheap **** tools or
$5000 worth of long lasting, high quality tools is a figure that you
think could break just about any company, I think you do not know much
about it at all.

Good hand tools yield added value that is directly measured in labor.

Just the time it takes to get the lead to go to the cabinet to get you
a new pair of cheap **** cutters, when the good pair would have you still
sailing along in your job.

The one place where I will economize value out of price is with
computers. You will NEVER see me becoming a Mac retard. The idiots
actually think that they are smarter because they paid twice as much for
their computer, and the whole ****ing crew is a group of total geeks.

It is really sad what has happened to the Mac world. I have never seen
a group of brand loyalists so 'affected' by the mindset of their fellow
owners. I have been trying to remember the last time my Windows machine
at work or here crashed like the Apple retard commercials all claim. All
the dopes at the Macworld TV show I watched a bit of the other day
actually think that we sit at out machines and fight crashes all day.
Are they really so stupid that they believe the ads Apple spewed upon the
world?

Are you?

In article ,
Meat Plow wrote:
The Lindstroms are worth the extra outlay if a long term, personal tool
is desired. For a production level, multi-user tool, the lower quality
steel, shorter life span brands are cheaper and are the better value for
such a setting. It just depends on who the tool is for, how well they
take care of their tools, and the term you wish the tool to last for.

Never heard of Lindstrom

Fairly well known as the 'Rolls Royce' of cutters etc. But debatable if
they are worth the cost. If you're only doing the things those cutters
were designed for, like snipping copper leads, cheaper ones treated as
disposable can be fine. And use a 'disposed' of pair for the things that
could damage the good ones.

But I do have some Lindstrom tools.

--
*I'm planning to be spontaneous tomorrow *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Fred Abse wrote:
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:49:03 +0000, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:

That in my humble opionion is just plain silly. If you refuse to lend people
tools when they ask, they wait until you are not looking and borrow them
anyway.

They get fired!

That only works if:

1. You are high enough up the food chain to do anything about it.

2. Have less invested in them than the tools.

Maybe a small company with a few employees of no particular skills, but
in the real world?

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
New word I coined 12/13/09, "Sub-Wikipedia" adj, describing knowledge or
understanding, as in he has a sub-wikipedia understanding of the situation.
i.e possessing less facts or information than can be found in the Wikipedia.

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:35:22 -0500, Meat Plow wrote:

That's nice YMMV

How retarded of you. Most of the industry does NOT use oblique cutters.
Pretty simple ****. Run your plow over it and see what springs up.

I have a newer pair of Xcelite nippers. If the above link does you no
good I'll grab them when I get back to the shop and post the part
number.

Are they 45-degree type? Yes, I'd appreciate a pn.

Thanks!

Xcelite 170M

:http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/xc...3900?ref=gbase

The Lindstroms are worth the extra outlay if a long term, personal tool
is desired. For a production level, multi-user tool, the lower quality
steel, shorter life span brands are cheaper and are the better value for
such a setting. It just depends on who the tool is for, how well they
take care of their tools, and the term you wish the tool to last for.

Never heard of Lindstrom

How uninformed of you.

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:04:03 +0000 (UTC), "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
wrote:

Fred Abse wrote:
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:49:03 +0000, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:

That in my humble opionion is just plain silly. If you refuse to lend people
tools when they ask, they wait until you are not looking and borrow them
anyway.

They get fired!

That only works if:

1. You are high enough up the food chain to do anything about it.

I can relate to that. I arrived at work one day, and went upstairs
down at the other end of the building. The new tech we hired started the
previous week. As I came to the end of the building my lab is at, and
looked out over the balcony, I saw him down at my bench, digging in my
personal tools/parts cabinets for whatever he felt like "he might need".

They did not do anything about it. Maybe because I was so mad about
the fact that such a low life ****tard had just been hired by our company
and was being considered a capable employee.

I think character flaws like that are grounds for instantaneous firing.

Not if it was a true colleague, looking for something he needed. This
was a new asshole, trying to get at my things, thinking he was getting in
before everyone else.

I only wish that the huge scare I filled him with when I hollered at
him when it happened had given him a heart attack.

He is ****ing lucky I did not load up one of our BIG HV caps and dump
the ****er in his ass while saying, "Now go near my **** again, ****er,
and I'll dump one of these into your chest!"

I hate that the ****tards in the world cause me to compromise my
character just to put the stupid *******s in their place. I hate ****ers
that make me hate.

I am so glad that the scrutiny used where I work now, means that I can
trust every soul there implicitly.

I could be a ****-up and they would keep me because I am part of the
family now.

But I am not a ****-up. That asshole digging in my parts and tools
was.

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:23:51 -0500, Meat Plow . wrote:

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:39:44 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Meat Plow wrote:
The Lindstroms are worth the extra outlay if a long term, personal tool
is desired. For a production level, multi-user tool, the lower quality
steel, shorter life span brands are cheaper and are the better value for
such a setting. It just depends on who the tool is for, how well they
take care of their tools, and the term you wish the tool to last for.

Never heard of Lindstrom

Fairly well known as the 'Rolls Royce' of cutters etc. But debatable if
they are worth the cost. If you're only doing the things those cutters
were designed for, like snipping copper leads, cheaper ones treated as
disposable can be fine. And use a 'disposed' of pair for the things that
could damage the good ones.

But I do have some Lindstrom tools.

I don't doubt they are the cat's meow. I use a pair of side cuts for
anything less larger than 20. My nippers were always for nipping leads
from caps, diodes, etc.... The shearing edges are just too soft.



Not on Lindstrom steel, it isn't. They use ball bearing steel. The
"shearing edges" are flawless.

BTW, side cutters perform NO shearing action whatsoever. They are not
shears. They are snips. Blades and seats strike into each other. On a
shear, the blades cross each other.

On Feb 11, 2:39 am, Sansui Samari wrote:
SS I cobbed a bunch of lindstrom cutters and pliers
SS from a place I worked at years ago. They were
SS going belly up and tossed out boxes of the things.
SS I'm still using the few that I haven't given away
SS or broken. As long as you don't use them to cut
SS steal (hence the broken cutters) they are
SS awesome. I wish I would have grabbed more.

G Were they going belly up because of
G buying only the finest, or despite of that?

G At the liquidation sales for some bankrupt
G companies, sometimes I have seen hard,
G tangeable evidence of WHY they went broke.

lifeimitateslife wrote:
lil I think you assign "hard and tangible" to
lil others when it can be assigned to you.
lil Hard and tangible evidence that your
lil statistical analysis prowess ain't that great.
lil
lil If the difference between buying $600
lil worth of cheap **** tools or $5000
lil worth of long lasting, high quality tools
lil is a figure that you think could break
lil just about any company, snip

Are you saying that the outfit that
Sansui Samurai described as having
gone belly up did the right thing by
buying $5000 worth of Rolls Royce
hand tools rather than the Xcelite
ones which would have cost $600?

G Were they going belly up because of
G buying only the finest, or despite of that?

Didn't I convey two alternatives there?

That the outfit failed:
A. BECAUSE they buy "only the finest" or
B. DESPITE buying "only the finest"?

It's like option A set you off so much that
you overlooked option B.

Judging from the way you took it very
personally, I'm guessing that you worked
somewhere where you groused about
the **** Xcelite nippers all day long....

How is that different from the MacIntosh
kooks?

Fred Abse wrote:
Not *that* small. Many longtime employees with irreplaceable skills who
know better than to borrow tools without asking. They have their own
tools. If they want more, we buy them. They wouldn't lend me theirs,
not that I'd ask.

It's called discipline and commitment.


It's also a cultural thing. Here there is a much more socialist attitude
where the company owns the tools, and not the employees. Everything is
shared among the workers.

****es (angers for you UK types) the hell out of me, but it's the way
everyone thinks. People would even unlock my desk to get to my tools.

Note that until the mid 1990's no one was paid enough money to own their
own tools, and to this day very few are.

I recently resarched this because someone asked me about starting business
here that they had in the US. They have a tool franchise and drive around
in a van selling tools to craftsmen, mechanincs, etc.

It does not translate well, the workers can't afford the tools, and the
employers would rather buy a high end chinese tool than a high end
US/EU made tool because it is likely to get broken, lost or stolen.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
New word I coined 12/13/09, "Sub-Wikipedia" adj, describing knowledge or
understanding, as in he has a sub-wikipedia understanding of the situation.
i.e possessing less facts or information than can be found in the Wikipedia.

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:45:09 -0800 (PST), Greegor
wrote:

Are you saying that the outfit that
Sansui Samurai described as having
gone belly up did the right thing by
buying $5000 worth of Rolls Royce
hand tools rather than the Xcelite
ones which would have cost $600?

No. I am saying that your claim that it is any indication of a
causation for having gone bankrupt, is a fallacy, and it is.

In article ,
Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
****es (angers for you UK types) the hell out of me, but it's the way
everyone thinks.

'****es me off' or ****ed off means angry annoyed or unhappy about
something in the UK.

****ed means drunk.

To **** means to take a leak, as **** is the slang for urine.

But progs like CSI mean we are familiar with the US usage. ;-)

--
*Two wrongs are only the beginning *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Full context restored for unanswered questions.

On Feb 11, 2:39 am, Sansui Samari wrote:
SS I cobbed a bunch of lindstrom cutters and pliers
SS from a place I worked at years ago. They were
SS going belly up and tossed out boxes of the things.
SS I'm still using the few that I haven't given away
SS or broken. As long as you don't use them to cut
SS steal (hence the broken cutters) they are
SS awesome. I wish I would have grabbed more.

G Were they going belly up because of
G buying only the finest, or despite of that?
G
G At the liquidation sales for some bankrupt
G companies, sometimes I have seen hard,
G tangeable evidence of WHY they went broke.

lifeimitateslife wrote:
lil I think you assign "hard and tangible" to
lil others when it can be assigned to you.
lil Hard and tangible evidence that your
lil statistical analysis prowess ain't that great.
lil
lil If the difference between buying $600
lil worth of cheap **** tools or $5000
lil worth of long lasting, high quality tools
lil is a figure that you think could break
lil just about any company, snip

G Are you saying that the outfit that
G Sansui Samurai described as having
G gone belly up did the right thing by
G buying $5000 worth of Rolls Royce
G hand tools rather than the Xcelite
G ones which would have cost $600?

lil No. I am saying that your claim that it is any indication of a
lil causation for having gone bankrupt, is a fallacy, and it is.

That you disagree does not make something a logical fallacy.

Wasteful overspending and overcommitment
in purchasing are common contributors to
business failure. The number one cause of
failure for small business is undercapitalization
or excessive cost of money. ie Cost controls.

The stuff that "belly up" companies throw away
or liquidate MAY VERY WELL reveal important
symptoms of problems that destroyed them.

Like most people here I enjoy and appreciate
truly good quality tools, FOR ME.

As others have mentioned, theftability, loss
and abuse CAN MEAN that the Xcelite tools
provide a better Return On Investment.

The nature of the work, the security of
individuals toolboxes, the number of people
who might potentially forget to return a
tool are all variables that could decide
whether the ROLLS ROYCE quality of
nippers are a good or bad idea.

Fluorescent light bulbs at $ 4 a shot are
great if your mortgage is totally paid off.
If you're selling your home next week
or if you're a landlord the ROI's not there.

Businesses OWNING their own facilities
sometimes find that they are better off to
sell their own building and rent it back
because they can't charge off any building
cost if they OWN the building.

I neither condone this nor like it, I just report it.

I LOVE well machined high quality tools
and craftsmanship, but it doesn't always
show up on the P&L sheet. I wish it did.

You seem to be applying personal taste
to profitability rationalizations.

That's partly why "bean counters" are
so widely disliked, isn't it?

My background is in small businesses
where you wear many hats and can't
blame "that other guy".

G Were they going belly up because of
G buying only the finest, or despite of that?
G
G Didn't I convey two alternatives there?
G
G That the outfit failed:
G A. BECAUSE they buy "only the finest" or
G B. DESPITE buying "only the finest"?
G
G It's like option A set you off so much that
G you overlooked option B.

Did you miss option B, lil ?

G Judging from the way you took it very
G personally, I'm guessing that you worked
G somewhere where you groused about
G the **** Xcelite nippers all day long....

G How is that different from the
G MacIntosh kooks?

I wrote this BEFORE I read your posted
story about exploding at a new guy for
using your tools. Did somebody at the
company give him permission to do so?

Telling the new guy to use your toolbox
would seem to be fairly typical hazing or
office politics considering your reaction.

On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 03:41:30 -0800 (PST), Greegor
wrote:

That you disagree does not make something a logical fallacy.


No, but the remark was incorrect because there are plenty of examples
of companies that have no problem stocking or using expensive items along
with their other assets.

Your remark had/has absolutely no basis in fact.
And that "theftability" remark was about as stupid as it gets.

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:29:29 -0800, DaveC wrote:

I used to own a pair of flush cutters where the jaws and the handles met at
about a 45-degree angle. Made for a nice tool for getting in between
components when you needed to nip something off flush with the PCB.

I think they were Xcelite.

I can't find anything like those Xcelites anymore. Everything is either
straight (no angle between the jaws and handles) or maybe a slight angle.

Anyone know of a good cutter that has a 45-degree angle? Flush-cut desirable
but not critical. A 1/2" (12 mm) jaw opening would be nice, though.

Thanks,
Dave


Lindstrom Precision seems to have some choices:
http://www.restockit.com/4-Angled-Fc... 1&Bvar7=100F1

perhaps model 7280 or model 7285
Expensive: I found US$73 for 7280, US$110 for 7285,

http://rocky.digikey.com/weblib/Coop...%20Catalog.pdf
449 (54 of 122) Xcelite Diagonal End Cutter Pliers
Angled Diagonal End Cutter, GA54J and GA5A4JV
(packaging difference only) maybe US$23

450 (55 of 122) has
Angled Head Cutter EGA54J,
Transverse End Cutter EC54{J,JV} - may not be shape you want.
Maybe $US36
Angled Tip Cutter LC665{J,JV} maybe US$27

All cost estimates from www.froogle.com; all price estimates are
probably exclusive of handling, shipping, taxes, etc.

One big difference in these types of tools, is whether they are made from
sheet steel stampings, or forged steel.
The forged steel versions typically last for decades, but cost more.

I have some miniature forged steel flush cutting pliers sold by Snap-On
which have handles that are nearly 90 degrees to the cutting edges. The
cutting jaws are fairly small, and project outward to one side. The reach of
the cutting edges allows them to reach under obstructions by about 1/4".
Some other forged steel flush cutting models I have were made by Hunter.
Several are the typical cutters which have the cutting edges in a straight
line to the handles, but a couple pair have the cutting edges at nearly 45
degrees, which make it possible to reach slightly under certain
obstructions.

I think that flush cutting is always better than the common beveled cutting
edges. Cutting requires less effort, and there's less distortion of the
material that's just "pinched off" by common beveled jaws.

--
Cheers,
WB
..............


"DaveC" wrote in message
...
I used to own a pair of flush cutters where the jaws and the handles met at
about a 45-degree angle. Made for a nice tool for getting in between
components when you needed to nip something off flush with the PCB.

I think they were Xcelite.

I can't find anything like those Xcelites anymore. Everything is either
straight (no angle between the jaws and handles) or maybe a slight angle.

Anyone know of a good cutter that has a 45-degree angle? Flush-cut
desirable
but not critical. A 1/2" (12 mm) jaw opening would be nice, though.

Thanks,
Dave

On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 20:09:30 -0500, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

One big difference in these types of tools, is whether they are made from
sheet steel stampings, or forged steel.
The forged steel versions typically last for decades, but cost more.

The lindstroms are not forged. They are fully machined from ball
bearing steel.

AwlSome Auger wrote:

On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 20:09:30 -0500, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

One big difference in these types of tools, is whether they are made from
sheet steel stampings, or forged steel.
The forged steel versions typically last for decades, but cost more.

The lindstroms are not forged. They are fully machined from ball
bearing steel.


Just like the steel plate in your head?


--
Greed is the root of all eBay.

On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 15:57:04 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


AwlSome Auger wrote:

On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 20:09:30 -0500, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

One big difference in these types of tools, is whether they are made from
sheet steel stampings, or forged steel.
The forged steel versions typically last for decades, but cost more.

The lindstroms are not forged. They are fully machined from ball
bearing steel.


Just like the steel plate in your head?


Yeah, it is so steely that it stole away any hope you ever had of being
considered an intelligent individual in this group.

AwlSome Auger wrote:
AA The lindstroms are not forged. They are
AA fully machined from ball bearing steel.

That's a strange way to pretend you have balls.

Did anybody else get the feeling that "life imitates life"
is somehow getting a kickback from lindstrom?

LOL

On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 14:53:56 -0800 (PST), Greegor
wrote:

AwlSome Auger wrote:
AA The lindstroms are not forged. They are
AA fully machined from ball bearing steel.

That's a strange way to pretend you have balls.

Did anybody else get the feeling that "life imitates life"
is somehow getting a kickback from lindstrom?

Nah, no one would actually pay someone to be AlwaysWrong.

AwlSome Auger wrote:

On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 15:57:04 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


AwlSome Auger wrote:

On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 20:09:30 -0500, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

One big difference in these types of tools, is whether they are made from
sheet steel stampings, or forged steel.
The forged steel versions typically last for decades, but cost more.

The lindstroms are not forged. They are fully machined from ball
bearing steel.


Just like the steel plate in your head?

Yeah, it is so steely that it stole away any hope you ever had of being
considered an intelligent individual in this group.


Yawn. Another lame dimbulb attempt at a putdown.

THE DIMBULB SCORECARD

Abbey Somebody
AnimalMagic
Archimedes' Lever
AtTheEndofMyRope
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CellShocked cellshocked@thecellvalueattheendofthespreadsheet. org
ChairmanOfTheBored
Chieftain of the Carpet Crawlers

Corbomite Carrie
DarkMatter
DarkSucker
Do I really need to say?
Dorothy with the Red Shoes on
Dr. Heywood R. Floyd
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FunkyPunk FieldEffectTrollsistor
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Kai
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life imitates life
lurch
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SkyPilot
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UltimatePatriot
UpGrade
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100WattDarkSucker 100WattDarkSucker@thebigbarattheendoftheuniverse. org









--
Greed is the root of all eBay.

On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 14:53:56 -0800 (PST), Greegor
wrote:

AwlSome Auger wrote:
AA The lindstroms are not forged. They are
AA fully machined from ball bearing steel.

That's a strange way to pretend you have balls.

Grow the **** up, retard boy.

Did anybody else get the feeling that "life imitates life"
is somehow getting a kickback from lindstrom?

LOL

Dude, you are a ****ing idiot. They are not forged.

One does not have to get a kickback to simply iterate facts.

You could use a bath, however, ****tard.

life imitates life wrote:
Maybe not in the little hick town hick shop you worked in, but where I
work all the employees are honorable.

It's not always a question of honor. In a socialist/communist environment
work (or the workers) own the tools and not each individual worker.

As China and India come up in the world, it's going to be the way things
are done.

What keeps the small craftsmen in the west going is that no one can duplicate
the work they do, at the price they do it. Eventually due to improved skill
and more automation, they will.

When it gets to the point that a designer in the US can email a design file
to a shop in Hong Kong, or elsewhere in the PRC, and get a perfect model
delivered by FedEx in a few days for 1/2 the cost of producing locally,
those companies will close quickly.

Look at what happened to the printing industry.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
New word I coined 12/13/09, "Sub-Wikipedia" adj, describing knowledge or
understanding, as in he has a sub-wikipedia understanding of the situation.
i.e possessing less facts or information than can be found in the Wikipedia.

In article ,
Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
It's not always a question of honor. In a socialist/communist environment
work (or the workers) own the tools and not each individual worker.

As China and India come up in the world, it's going to be the way things
are done.

You think India communist? ;-)

--
*I thought I saw an eye doctor on an Alaskan island, but it turned out to

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 05:44:03 +0000 (UTC), "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
wrote:

life imitates life wrote:
Maybe not in the little hick town hick shop you worked in, but where I
work all the employees are honorable.

It's not always a question of honor. In a socialist/communist environment
work (or the workers) own the tools and not each individual worker.

As China and India come up in the world, it's going to be the way things
are done.

What keeps the small craftsmen in the west going is that no one can duplicate
the work they do, at the price they do it. Eventually due to improved skill
and more automation, they will.

When it gets to the point that a designer in the US can email a design file
to a shop in Hong Kong, or elsewhere in the PRC, and get a perfect model
delivered by FedEx in a few days for 1/2 the cost of producing locally,
those companies will close quickly.

Look at what happened to the printing industry.

Geoff.


Printing hell! You can "print" hard 3D prototypes now.

But according to the dumbass, buying such a machine will surely take
your company down.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

You think India communist? ;-)

No, but what I do think is common in India, is that the low paid workers
have tools provided by their employers and the employers own the tools.

The workers are paid far too little to buy their own tools and if they were
given them, sell them to buy cheap tools and use the money for food, etc.

The philosophy may be different, but the result is the same.

Note that India is a very large place and not everyone who lives there is
poor.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
New word I coined 12/13/09, "Sub-Wikipedia" adj, describing knowledge or
understanding, as in he has a sub-wikipedia understanding of the situation.
i.e possessing less facts or information than can be found in the Wikipedia.

life imitates life wrote:
Printing hell! You can "print" hard 3D prototypes now.

But according to the dumbass, buying such a machine will surely take
your company down.

I don't know to whom you refer, but it could be thought that way. (just
a stretch, not a position I'm supporting)

Let's go back to the small company with designers and engineers and a bunch
of people (titles irrelevant) who build 3d models of things. If you buy one
of the machines, the lower skilled model/prototype makers will be replaced
by it.

This leads to the higher skilled (and older) makers retiring and leaving the
company, assuming they stay around that long. As the devices get better,
which they will over time, the more skilled makes they can replace.

In some ways it's sad, the son of a friend of mine took a course to run
a CNC device. Twenty years ago he would have been called an operator, now
his title is engineer.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
New word I coined 12/13/09, "Sub-Wikipedia" adj, describing knowledge or
understanding, as in he has a sub-wikipedia understanding of the situation.
i.e possessing less facts or information than can be found in the Wikipedia.

On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 12:39:03 +0000 (UTC), "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
wrote:

life imitates life wrote:
Printing hell! You can "print" hard 3D prototypes now.

But according to the dumbass, buying such a machine will surely take
your company down.

I don't know to whom you refer, but it could be thought that way. (just
a stretch, not a position I'm supporting)

Let's go back to the small company with designers and engineers and a bunch
of people (titles irrelevant) who build 3d models of things. If you buy one
of the machines, the lower skilled model/prototype makers will be replaced
by it.

NO. The company get a prot-type without having to pay the machine shop
a tooling charge. The model maker IS your designer, and his position
remains. Most companies do not have their own machine shops.

This leads to the higher skilled (and older) makers retiring and leaving the
company, assuming they stay around that long. As the devices get better,
which they will over time, the more skilled makes they can replace.

Grasping at straws. We advance as we advance, and the skilled craftsmen
remain and skills get handed down. Why do you think a YF-22 costs $230M?

In some ways it's sad, the son of a friend of mine took a course to run
a CNC device. Twenty years ago he would have been called an operator, now
his title is engineer.

Oh boy. I studied them at ten years old back in 1970. They call these
things paradigm shifts. Computer controls allow precision machinists to
precisely machine. **** and moan machinists fall away as chaff. Time
and progress marches on.

life imitates life wrote:
Grasping at straws. We advance as we advance, and the skilled craftsmen
remain and skills get handed down. Why do you think a YF-22 costs $230M?

Just because you mentioned the YF-22, I submit the following video for your
entertainment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktQOLO4U5iQ

Just in case you don't get it right away, this was shown at an Indian Defense
Conference. The man represents Israel, the woman India, and the company
who made it, Rafael, has its products placed around the stage.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
New word I coined 12/13/09, "Sub-Wikipedia" adj, describing knowledge or
understanding, as in he has a sub-wikipedia understanding of the situation.
i.e possessing less facts or information than can be found in the Wikipedia.

On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 15:19:03 +0000 (UTC), "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
wrote:

life imitates life wrote:
Grasping at straws. We advance as we advance, and the skilled craftsmen
remain and skills get handed down. Why do you think a YF-22 costs $230M?

Just because you mentioned the YF-22, I submit the following video for your
entertainment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktQOLO4U5iQ

Wow. Rafael makes some very advanced stuff to have such a lame ad
evolutionary position.

Hell, it is even illegal in India to make such a suggestive "movie". Or
at least it was.


Just in case you don't get it right away, this was shown at an Indian Defense
Conference. The man represents Israel, the woman India, and the company
who made it, Rafael, has its products placed around the stage.

In India, even staring at a tomato in the rain was too suggestive. Big
missiles with veils draped over them.

How quaint.




Geoff.

How do you think Iran and North Korea get hold of technology they
shouldn't have?

I'll keep outsourced production within US jurisdiction and control, if
you don't mind.

I don't mind at all. I just think that ship sailed in 1947. You would be
surprised (or maybe you would not, I don't know) how much US technology isn't.

The company name is "American", the patents were filed in the US (among other
places), but the actual invention, development and manufacturing are somewhere
else.

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
New word I coined 12/13/09, "Sub-Wikipedia" adj, describing knowledge or
understanding, as in he has a sub-wikipedia understanding of the situation.
i.e possessing less facts or information than can be found in the Wikipedia.

On 2/10/2010 12:29 PM, DaveC wrote:
I used to own a pair of flush cutters where the jaws and the handles met at
about a 45-degree angle. Made for a nice tool for getting in between
components when you needed to nip something off flush with the PCB.

I think they were Xcelite.

I can't find anything like those Xcelites anymore. Everything is either
straight (no angle between the jaws and handles) or maybe a slight angle.

Anyone know of a good cutter that has a 45-degree angle? Flush-cut desirable
but not critical. A 1/2" (12 mm) jaw opening would be nice, though.

Thanks,
Dave

I picked up a barely used set of Lindstrom (Sweden)Model Rx 8142. I am
not sure if the angle is more than 30 degrees, but very well balanced
and cushioned. I have forbidden the family to use them! My other cutters
look like they have been used for cutting iron nails!

--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"©

"Use only Genuine Interocitor Parts" Tom Servo ;-P

On 2/12/2010 6:41 AM, Greegor wrote:


Can anybody tell me why Xcelite nut drivers smell like puke?


--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"©

"Use only Genuine Interocitor Parts" Tom Servo ;-P