Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems.

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Default pc issue.. should I be worried?

okay, the subject is a little off, I -know- I should be worried.
here's the scoop.
basically I have an old pc, celeron or something here, which I was
using as a media PC, to watch my downloaded movies on my tv, with s-
video out and such.
anyway.
since around when I put it together, I was getting little shocks
occasionally from it. I don't know what it could be. every time it
happened, I got the shock from the case itself. and each time I
quickly unplugged the computer. once plugged back in, it didn't have
any problems.
recently I haven't been getting shocks at all, but just yesterday I
turned it on, and it was running for a while just idle, and I smelled
burning, and then it froze. I quickly rushed over and unplugged it,
and looked inside, and to my surprise there was a component on the
motherboard that was glowing red hot. I don't know what the component
is called, but here's a link to a picture of it, then a picture of the
motherboard to show reference as to where it is.
first I'd like to point out, part of my problem is likely dust and
dirt. but we'll get to that.
http://bayimg.com/image/bagagaaco.jpg
http://bayimg.com/image/fagakaaco.jpg

as I said, this component was glowing red hot. but! the computer turns
on just fine even now. it boots and everything.
aside from dust, what might have caused this, and should I be
concerned, once I clean it?
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kronflux wrote:
basically I have an old pc, celeron or something here, which I was
using as a media PC, to watch my downloaded movies on my tv, with s-
video out and such.
anyway.
aside from dust, what might have caused this, and should I be
concerned, once I clean it?


Just buy a new PC. You'll be much happier in the end. Here you can get a
dual core ATOM processor (very low power), 1g RAM, 256G HD and a DVD drive
for $260 (including 16.5% VAT).

You may have to shop around for one with an S-Video out, but if you are
buying an LCD TV in the near future, just get one with a compatible
(to the new motherboard) video connection.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
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kronflux writes:

okay, the subject is a little off, I -know- I should be worried.
here's the scoop.
basically I have an old pc, celeron or something here, which I was
using as a media PC, to watch my downloaded movies on my tv, with s-
video out and such.
anyway.
since around when I put it together, I was getting little shocks
occasionally from it. I don't know what it could be. every time it
happened, I got the shock from the case itself. and each time I
quickly unplugged the computer. once plugged back in, it didn't have
any problems.
recently I haven't been getting shocks at all, but just yesterday I
turned it on, and it was running for a while just idle, and I smelled
burning, and then it froze. I quickly rushed over and unplugged it,
and looked inside, and to my surprise there was a component on the
motherboard that was glowing red hot. I don't know what the component
is called, but here's a link to a picture of it, then a picture of the
motherboard to show reference as to where it is.
first I'd like to point out, part of my problem is likely dust and
dirt. but we'll get to that.
http://bayimg.com/image/bagagaaco.jpg
http://bayimg.com/image/fagakaaco.jpg

as I said, this component was glowing red hot. but! the computer turns
on just fine even now. it boots and everything.
aside from dust, what might have caused this, and should I be
concerned, once I clean it?


Unsolder and remove that part - it's a bypass capacitor - and see if the PC
runs. It's possible it just went bad. If the PC runs OK, it will be fine
without it. If not, probably time to get a new PC as someone else suggested.

The shocks are a totally different problem.

Is the PC plugged into a PROPERLY grounded outlet? If not, then the case
can have some voltage on it from the power supply RFI/line filters. PCs
should always be plugged into grounded outlets for your safety and also
reliability. It's also possible there is a fault in the power supply which
would blow the line fuse if the case were properly grounded. And that can
be very dangerous (but also relatively unlikely).

The other possibility is that it is simply very dry there and you're getting
static shocks like walking across a carpet and touching a doorknob.

A third possibility is that some other piece of equipment is faulty and
you're getting shocked when you touch that and the PC at the same time.

--
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Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
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| Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

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Default pc issue.. should I be worried?

Hi!

since around when I put it together, I was getting little shocks
occasionally from it.


Could have been nothing more than static electricity dissipating from
your body. If you touched a properly grounded electrically conductive
object, the result is to be expected. This is the right time of the
year for those where cold and dry winter weather has now arrived.

Unfortunately, this means I'm spending a lot of time in my carpeted
computer room getting a surprise each time I head across the carpet.
(My computer service room has a grounded workbench and no carpet, so
I'm thinking of moving into that room temporarily.)

and to my surprise there was a component on the
motherboard that was glowing red hot.


This cannot be good. Even if the board continued to work, I wouldn't
leave it running unattended for any reason. It could start a fire,
especially if the case is dusty.

However, since the board continues to operate, it seems to me like the
fault actually happened somewhere else. Since I can't presently see
the picture you linked to, I can't say for certain what circuit might
be affected.

Had the fault been on the motherboard, I'd have expected traces
leading to the component (or other, related traces) to have vaporized
shortly after the part you saw turned red hot.

Clean the machine. Keep an eye on it. And try running it with only a
monitor, mouse and keyboard in another location. Look at the
electrical service in the location where you've been running it to
make sure that everything is wired properly, and that all of your
entertainment devices are working correctly.

William
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well, the type of shock I was getting was a constant shock. not like a
zap-ish static kind of shock.
as I said, it hasn't happened lately, but I have tried the PC in
different locations, and it did the same, so it shouldn't be anything
to do with ground. I even tried different power cables.
I assume it's either the dust and dirt, the case sucks, or a faulty
power supply.

unfortunately buying a new PC is out of the question at the moment,
financially. which is why I use an old junker for a media PC.
there aren't really any special devices hooked up to it. it's got a
video card, network card, and a USB infrared remote receiver. the
video card gets an s-video out, which is adapted to a composite, and
that hooks up to my tv. the audio is onboard, which also hooks up to
my tv.

I think what I'll try is cleaning it first, and letting it run for a
while. watch it constantly, and see if it's still doing it. if not,
success. if it does, I may try unsoldering the bypass capacitor.
if it's a faulty bypass capacitor, should I replace this part, solder
a bridge between the two leads, or simply leave it empty?


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kronflux wrote:

unfortunately buying a new PC is out of the question at the moment,
financially. which is why I use an old junker for a media PC.
there aren't really any special devices hooked up to it. it's got a
video card, network card, and a USB infrared remote receiver. the
video card gets an s-video out, which is adapted to a composite, and
that hooks up to my tv. the audio is onboard, which also hooks up to
my tv.


As for the shocks, dump the surge supressor. I'll bet you have one and
it leaks.

For the PC, if you are unable to buy a new multimedia computer, a situation
I am also in, look around on the various local mailing lists for a used
computer. If you are lucky, you'll find a faster one that does the job
for you for free, if you are not, you still should be able to get a
good replacement if you are persistant and patient.

P.S. if you spend the time to learn how to repair power supply fans, you
should be able to get more 2-3 year old computers than you can ever use.

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
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okay, so I changed power supplies, and cleaned it. and turned it on.
within about 30 seconds, it started glowing again. I'm going to have
to assume this is a faulty bypass capacitor. that being the case, can
someone answer my question about that?
should I try to replace the bypass capacitor, unsolder it and solder a
bridge between the two leads, or unsolder it and leave it empty, with
two open leads?
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On Dec 9, 1:32*am, kronflux wrote:

basically I have an old pc, ...
since around when I put it together, I was getting little shocks
occasionally from it.

....
as I said, this component was glowing red hot. but! the computer turns
on just fine even now. it boots and everything.
aside from dust, what might have caused this, and should I be
concerned, once I clean it?


That capacitor has shorted internally, you were seeing
an internal arc. Probably it didn't get 'red hot' or the
nearby board and dust would be scorched.
Remove that capacitor! It's doing more harm than good (but find
someone with a soldering iron and skills to do the removal).
Replacement will be difficult (you don't know the component
value), but the power necessary to make an arc is indicative
that the capacitor is on a power bus, which means there are
possibly a dozen or so other capacitors that are also connected
there. Replace with 1 uF/25V if it's convenient, otherwise
just ignore the empty space. The size looks like "1812".

Clean off the dust, and check, with a good AC voltmeter, the grounding
of every
piece of metal near your computer; the power supply case and three-
prong
cable should ground the computer, so check that, too.

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so just to be clear, I -can- remove this, and it -should- work without
replacing it?
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I've desoldered it. but I want to be sure it should work, and be sure
it won't explode or something if I turn it on


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I seem to be spamming my own messages.
anyway. I've successfully unsoldered the bypass capacitor as mentioned
before, which was internally arching(I confirmed that it was this, and
not 'glowing red hot' persay)
the PC boots perfectly fine, nothing seems to be exploding. so my
final question is, will it be safe to leave it like this long-term,
and still use the system for watching movies and whatnot, perhaps for
many hours of up-time per day?
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kronflux wrote:

okay, so I changed power supplies, and cleaned it. and turned it on.
within about 30 seconds, it started glowing again. I'm going to have
to assume this is a faulty bypass capacitor. that being the case, can
someone answer my question about that?
should I try to replace the bypass capacitor, unsolder it and solder a
bridge between the two leads, or unsolder it and leave it empty, with
two open leads?


Take suitable anti static precautions and un-solder the part. Its a
bypass capacitor and it has an internal short. Its also on the 5volt
rail so if you do decide to replace it almost anything of the same
physical size will do. Its value is not critical. Though I would
guess around .1uf to .5uf.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.
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Hi!

so just to be clear, I -can- remove this, and it -should- work
without replacing it?


No, you'd better replace that capacitor. The designers of the board
put it there for a good reason. If you just remove it, you may find
out why when the board blows up or something on it fries.

A new capacitor will be cheap. If you can find someone who is willing
to remove and replace the old one, or if you already know how, this
will not be an expensive fix.

William
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not even sure where I'd find something like that around here.
but I'll try to find one. I'm gonna leave it on for about 5 hours,
sitting here watching it constantly, if it doesn't go nuts or blow up
or whatever, I'm just gonna leave it like that.
if I remember correctly, bypass capacitors are mainly to filter out AC
noise, since most of the board's component's require DC power. and
since the power supply is supposed to do a good deal of that on it's
own.. I don't see how they are entirely necessary on the board. that's
not to say I won't keep my eye out. if I find them somewhere, maybe
the source(which used to be radio shack) ? I dunno.
lets see how the next 5 hours go.
I'm even installing windows 7 on it, for kicks. kind of push it to its
limits

thanks for the help guys, I really appreciate it.
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not even sure where I'd find something like that around here.
but I'll try to find one. I'm gonna leave it on for about 5 hours,
sitting here watching it constantly, if it doesn't go nuts or blow up
or whatever, I'm just gonna leave it like that.
if I remember correctly, bypass capacitors are mainly to filter out AC
noise, since most of the board's component's require DC power. and
since the power supply is supposed to do a good deal of that on it's
own.. I don't see how they are entirely necessary on the board. that's
not to say I won't keep my eye out. if I find them somewhere, maybe
the source(which used to be radio shack) ? I dunno.
lets see how the next 5 hours go.
I'm even installing windows 7 on it, for kicks. kind of push it to its
limits

thanks for the help guys, I really appreciate it.


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I might also add, I thought the thing was dead anyway at first, so I
don't really care if it died or fries components. the only reason I'd
be afraid of those is if it's a fire hazard, and that's also why I
have a master cutoff switch for my house in my bedroom, as well as a
fire extinguisher beside my bed.
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I might also add, I thought the thing was dead anyway at first, so I
don't really care if it died or fries components. the only reason I'd
be afraid of those is if it's a fire hazard, and that's also why I
have a master cutoff switch for my house in my bedroom, as well as a
fire extinguisher beside my bed.
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kronflux writes:

well, the type of shock I was getting was a constant shock. not like a
zap-ish static kind of shock.
as I said, it hasn't happened lately, but I have tried the PC in
different locations, and it did the same, so it shouldn't be anything
to do with ground. I even tried different power cables.
I assume it's either the dust and dirt, the case sucks, or a faulty
power supply.

unfortunately buying a new PC is out of the question at the moment,
financially. which is why I use an old junker for a media PC.
there aren't really any special devices hooked up to it. it's got a
video card, network card, and a USB infrared remote receiver. the
video card gets an s-video out, which is adapted to a composite, and
that hooks up to my tv. the audio is onboard, which also hooks up to
my tv.

I think what I'll try is cleaning it first, and letting it run for a
while. watch it constantly, and see if it's still doing it. if not,
success. if it does, I may try unsoldering the bypass capacitor.
if it's a faulty bypass capacitor, should I replace this part, solder
a bridge between the two leads, or simply leave it empty?


More likely your house doesn't have properly grounded outlets, not
a problem with the PC.

The case of a PC should be stone dead (no pun...) as far as shocks go.
It's wired directly to the third prong on the power cord. If the outlet
isn't grounded or you're using a 3 to 2 adapter and the Ground isn't
connected, same thing.

--
sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

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kronflux writes:

well, the type of shock I was getting was a constant shock. not like a
zap-ish static kind of shock.
as I said, it hasn't happened lately, but I have tried the PC in
different locations, and it did the same, so it shouldn't be anything
to do with ground. I even tried different power cables.
I assume it's either the dust and dirt, the case sucks, or a faulty
power supply.

unfortunately buying a new PC is out of the question at the moment,
financially. which is why I use an old junker for a media PC.
there aren't really any special devices hooked up to it. it's got a
video card, network card, and a USB infrared remote receiver. the
video card gets an s-video out, which is adapted to a composite, and
that hooks up to my tv. the audio is onboard, which also hooks up to
my tv.

I think what I'll try is cleaning it first, and letting it run for a
while. watch it constantly, and see if it's still doing it. if not,
success. if it does, I may try unsoldering the bypass capacitor.
if it's a faulty bypass capacitor, should I replace this part, solder
a bridge between the two leads, or simply leave it empty?


More likely your house doesn't have properly grounded outlets, not
a problem with the PC.

The case of a PC should be stone dead (no pun...) as far as shocks go.
It's wired directly to the third prong on the power cord. If the outlet
isn't grounded or you're using a 3 to 2 adapter and the Ground isn't
connected, same thing.

--
sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

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"William R. Walsh" writes:

Hi!

so just to be clear, I -can- remove this, and it -should- work
without replacing it?


No, you'd better replace that capacitor. The designers of the board
put it there for a good reason. If you just remove it, you may find
out why when the board blows up or something on it fries.


HaHaHaHaHa... I used to design high performance computers. Engineers
often sprinkle bypass caps all over the place for insurance and there
are always more than need be. The worst that will happen is that Windows
might crash 1 time out of 10000 more often than it usually does.

In any case, the board won't blow up or fry due to a missing bypass cap!
Geez! ;-)

--
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Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
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A new capacitor will be cheap. If you can find someone who is willing
to remove and replace the old one, or if you already know how, this
will not be an expensive fix.





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"William R. Walsh" writes:

Hi!

so just to be clear, I -can- remove this, and it -should- work
without replacing it?


No, you'd better replace that capacitor. The designers of the board
put it there for a good reason. If you just remove it, you may find
out why when the board blows up or something on it fries.


HaHaHaHaHa... I used to design high performance computers. Engineers
often sprinkle bypass caps all over the place for insurance and there
are always more than need be. The worst that will happen is that Windows
might crash 1 time out of 10000 more often than it usually does.

In any case, the board won't blow up or fry due to a missing bypass cap!
Geez! ;-)

--
sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included in the
subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.

A new capacitor will be cheap. If you can find someone who is willing
to remove and replace the old one, or if you already know how, this
will not be an expensive fix.



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"Samuel M. Goldwasser" wrote in message
...
"William R. Walsh" writes:

Hi!

so just to be clear, I -can- remove this, and it -should- work
without replacing it?


No, you'd better replace that capacitor. The designers of the board
put it there for a good reason. If you just remove it, you may find
out why when the board blows up or something on it fries.


HaHaHaHaHa... I used to design high performance computers. Engineers
often sprinkle bypass caps all over the place for insurance and there
are always more than need be. The worst that will happen is that Windows
might crash 1 time out of 10000 more often than it usually does.

In any case, the board won't blow up or fry due to a missing bypass cap!
Geez! ;-)

--
sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above
is
ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included
in the
subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.

A new capacitor will be cheap. If you can find someone who is willing
to remove and replace the old one, or if you already know how, this
will not be an expensive fix.



Sams right, also no-one has mentioned to you, but DO NOT short out the
connections where the cap was !! that would surely lead to pain :-) (You
would be short circuiting the power supply)


--
Regards .............. Rheilly P



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Hi!

not even sure where I'd find something like that around
here.
maybe the source(which used to be radio shack) ?


I don't know how similiar The Source is to RadioShack here in the US,
but I know they were at least loosely related at one time. So they
might have what you need.

You can also steal capacitors from dead equipment. I have been known
to harvest them from motherboards that were the victim of some
catastrophic failure (other than the caps). If the equipment isn't
terribly old and the capacitors look OK, they probably are.

I'm even installing windows 7 on it, for kicks. kind of push it
to its limits


Been there, done that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxf3PWwIqew

Compaq Deskpro EN, 40GB hard disk, 512MB RAM

It was entirely usable for a lot of basic computing needs.

William
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I had a similar thing happen about 4-5 yrs again, with a P4 system I had. I
brushed my arm against the case one day, and felt a tingle.

Which, I knew didnt sound right. What happened in my case, was not only was
the power earthing the case, it was also frying the CPU (the system kept
crashing), and it was screwing up the videocard. If I turned it off and
disconnected the video cable, and touched the pins, they were live

I found out what the prob was after. The earth wire had come out of the
power point, it was plugged into. Lucky for me, I got onto Intel, who
replaced the CPU for free (the fried CPU had to go back to Malaysia to get
replaced). I used a lower spec CPU, in the meantime. The replacement took 2
weeks to come back. I had to replace the mobo tho. After that, it was all
good

"kronflux" wrote in message
...
okay, the subject is a little off, I -know- I should be worried.
here's the scoop.
basically I have an old pc, celeron or something here, which I was
using as a media PC, to watch my downloaded movies on my tv, with s-
video out and such.
anyway.
since around when I put it together, I was getting little shocks
occasionally from it. I don't know what it could be. every time it
happened, I got the shock from the case itself. and each time I
quickly unplugged the computer. once plugged back in, it didn't have
any problems.
recently I haven't been getting shocks at all, but just yesterday I
turned it on, and it was running for a while just idle, and I smelled
burning, and then it froze. I quickly rushed over and unplugged it,
and looked inside, and to my surprise there was a component on the
motherboard that was glowing red hot. I don't know what the component
is called, but here's a link to a picture of it, then a picture of the
motherboard to show reference as to where it is.
first I'd like to point out, part of my problem is likely dust and
dirt. but we'll get to that.
http://bayimg.com/image/bagagaaco.jpg
http://bayimg.com/image/fagakaaco.jpg

as I said, this component was glowing red hot. but! the computer turns
on just fine even now. it boots and everything.
aside from dust, what might have caused this, and should I be
concerned, once I clean it?




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Default pc issue.. should I be worried?

I had a similar thing happen about 4-5 yrs again, with a P4 system I had. I
brushed my arm against the case one day, and felt a tingle.

Which, I knew didnt sound right. What happened in my case, was not only was
the power earthing the case, it was also frying the CPU (the system kept
crashing), and it was screwing up the videocard. If I turned it off and
disconnected the video cable, and touched the pins, they were live

I found out what the prob was after. The earth wire had come out of the
power point, it was plugged into. Lucky for me, I got onto Intel, who
replaced the CPU for free (the fried CPU had to go back to Malaysia to get
replaced). I used a lower spec CPU, in the meantime. The replacement took 2
weeks to come back. I had to replace the mobo tho. After that, it was all
good

"kronflux" wrote in message
...
okay, the subject is a little off, I -know- I should be worried.
here's the scoop.
basically I have an old pc, celeron or something here, which I was
using as a media PC, to watch my downloaded movies on my tv, with s-
video out and such.
anyway.
since around when I put it together, I was getting little shocks
occasionally from it. I don't know what it could be. every time it
happened, I got the shock from the case itself. and each time I
quickly unplugged the computer. once plugged back in, it didn't have
any problems.
recently I haven't been getting shocks at all, but just yesterday I
turned it on, and it was running for a while just idle, and I smelled
burning, and then it froze. I quickly rushed over and unplugged it,
and looked inside, and to my surprise there was a component on the
motherboard that was glowing red hot. I don't know what the component
is called, but here's a link to a picture of it, then a picture of the
motherboard to show reference as to where it is.
first I'd like to point out, part of my problem is likely dust and
dirt. but we'll get to that.
http://bayimg.com/image/bagagaaco.jpg
http://bayimg.com/image/fagakaaco.jpg

as I said, this component was glowing red hot. but! the computer turns
on just fine even now. it boots and everything.
aside from dust, what might have caused this, and should I be
concerned, once I clean it?


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Default pc issue.. should I be worried?

On Dec 10, 3:18*am, "Rheilly Phoull" wrote:
not be an expensive fix.

Sams right, also no-one has mentioned to you, but DO NOT short out

the
connections where the cap was !! that would surely lead to pain :-)

(You
would be short circuiting the power supply)

--
Regards .............. Rheilly P


Then he'd REALLY see some glowin red stuff.


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Default pc issue.. should I be worried?

On Dec 10, 3:18*am, "Rheilly Phoull" wrote:
not be an expensive fix.

Sams right, also no-one has mentioned to you, but DO NOT short out

the
connections where the cap was !! that would surely lead to pain :-)

(You
would be short circuiting the power supply)

--
Regards .............. Rheilly P


Then he'd REALLY see some glowin red stuff.


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Default pc issue.. should I be worried?


I wonder if his 'red hot component' might be a surface mount LED?


the component the OP has circled in the photo is labeled as a
capacitor.



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I wonder if his 'red hot component' might be a surface mount LED?


the component the OP has circled in the photo is labeled as a
capacitor.





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Default pc issue.. should I be worried?

Hi!

HaHaHaHaHa... *I used to design high performance computers.
Engineers often sprinkle bypass caps all over the place for
insurance and there are always more than need be.


Very well then. I'll stand aside in light of your experience here.

However, in the hope of not making things worse, I'd be very hesitant
to suggest that someone just pull components out of a circuit and hope
it still works properly...

William
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Default pc issue.. should I be worried?

well since the discussion here has gone on since I last commented, I'd
just like to add that the system is running perfectly fine. haven't
had a single problem with it.
checked the temperatures and such too, everything seems rather normal.
also, as I stated before, it was confirmed that it was not 'red hot'
but simply arching inside the component, so it was lighting up, but
not getting 'hot' persay. which is why it did not unsolder itself, or
blacken the area around it. I haven't turned the thing off in days,
and as I said, no problems. cheers!
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