On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 14:23:09 -0700, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 21:08:32 +0100, Allus Smith

Don't start me on the looks of cars!

Mini. Citroën. Vauxhall. Volvo. Rolls. Porsche. Fiat.

http://philip.greenspun.com/images/p...evaux-20.4.jpg

I thought the Miata was ugly, until I saw a PT Cruiser. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 19:51:20 -0700, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 22:41:56 +0100, Allus Smith

One distinctive feature of US car design is a look I call: "I've just
rammed a wall"

If you want to stuff a huge V8 with 200 tons of air conditioning and
power-everything under the hood, you need a lot of hood.

But Cadillac and most things Chrysler are admittedly over the top. They
corner the ugly-car-lover market.

My second-favorite car actually was car-shaped:
http://image.hotrod.com/f/8929747/11...ide_ view.jpg
but mine was green.

Cheers!
Rich

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 20:48:58 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Of course, the government derives substantial revenue from taxing what are
now economy and mid size cars, so don't expect the situation to change in
the foreseeable future.

Until we all storm Washington, DC with our pitchforks and torches. :-

Cheers!
Rich

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 21:54:46 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

If the politicoes had any guts+sense, they'd just up the taxes on
gasoline, and let the market take care of the rest.

I could live with arbitrarily high gasonline taxes, since I only have a
bike. ;-)

(admittedly, bus fares might go up a bit.)

Cheers!
Rich

On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 13:17:37 +0100, Steve Firth wrote:
Joerg wrote:

the little Jeep looks quite cool.

Jeep reliability and build quality is, however, a bad joke. I've had the
opportunity to compare ten year old Jeeps (Cherokee and Grand Cherokee)
with my ten year old Ford - the Jeeps have all been in poor condition at
lower mileage. I've also found the Dodge/GMC trucks to be better built
than Jeeps, which seems odd. I conly guess that the old AMC spirit of
building rubbish that falls apart still prevails at Jeep.

I once saw a "tractor pull" where one of the events was a mud "race". With
all of the monster trucks, 6' tires, noise, and noise, the only vehicle
that actually made it to the end of the mud run was a dolled up WWII
Willys Jeep. (well, most likely a replica, but it was shaped just like
the jeeps on MASH and such.)

Cheers!
Rich

On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 09:00:45 -0700, Joerg wrote:
Tim S Kemp wrote:

Neither of the above match the fuel economy of my proper sized passenger
car.

Have you ever driven a Corvette? What was the gas mileage?

I once had a neighbor who was a car guy; he once said, "There's nothin'
doggier than a stock 'vette."

Cheers!
Rich

"Rich Grise" wrote in message
news
But Cadillac and most things Chrysler are admittedly over the top. They
corner the ugly-car-lover market.

My second-favorite car actually was car-shaped:
http://image.hotrod.com/f/8929747/11...ide_ view.jpg
but mine was green.

I'm quite impressed at how ugly they've made that. It's the combination of
the little back back window and that huge pillar which seals it. Lose the
back seats, and glass, chop the roof back to the pillar, turn it into a ute
and it'd be a lot less wrong.

On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 02:23:15 +0100, Allus Smith wrote:

You may be misunderstanding me if you think I said ALL basic American
soldering irons look Russian. I meant to say there was a lot more of this
sort of poor design in the US than in western Europe. A single item
doesn't really prove or disprove it.

Now, you ARE trolling.

See ya!
Rich

I thought the Miata was ugly, until I saw a PT Cruiser. ;-)

The design is reminiscent of the Chrysler Airstream, which was a major flop
70+ years ago.

William Sommerwerck wrote:
I thought the Miata was ugly, until I saw a PT Cruiser. ;-)

The design is reminiscent of the Chrysler Airstream, which was a major flop
70+ years ago.


AFAIK the Airstream was not a major flop. The Airflow was, but mostly
due to really bad manufacturing defects.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

In message , Clive
George writes
I'm quite impressed at how ugly they've made that. It's the combination of
the little back back window and that huge pillar which seals it. Lose the
back seats, and glass, chop the roof back to the pillar, turn it into a ute
and it'd be a lot less wrong.
It actually looks as though someone got the basic idea for a pick up
truck and then found out they were meant to be designing a passenger
car.



--
Clint Sharp

I thought the Miata was ugly, until I saw a PT Cruiser. ;-)

The design is reminiscent of the Chrysler Airstream, which was
a major flop 70+ years ago.

AFAIK the Airstream was not a major flop. The Airflow was, but
mostly due to really bad manufacturing defects.

I might have gotten the name wrong, as I was in a rush. Regardless, Chrysler
produced a "streamlined" car that the public didn't warm to.

William Sommerwerck wrote:
I thought the Miata was ugly, until I saw a PT Cruiser. ;-)

The design is reminiscent of the Chrysler Airstream, which was
a major flop 70+ years ago.

AFAIK the Airstream was not a major flop. The Airflow was, but
mostly due to really bad manufacturing defects.

I might have gotten the name wrong, as I was in a rush. Regardless, Chrysler
produced a "streamlined" car that the public didn't warm to.


Reason I mentioned it was that the Airflow doesn't look similar to the
PT Cruiser at all while the Airstream does (with the PT Cruiser being a
whole lot smaller).

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

"Joerg" wrote in message
...
William Sommerwerck wrote:
I don't know which brands you're referring to, but I've owned EDSYN
(Engineering Dedicated To Suit Your Needs!) irons for 20+ years, and they
don't look anything like that.


... and wherever in the world I happened to be, there were always those
Weller stations. Antex? Never seen it, never heard of it. Strange, ain't
it?


The weller irons were once the best money could buy - then they got took
over by cooper tools, since then the bean counters reduced the thickness of
the iron plating so the bit oxidises in the barrel, "freezing" in and
impossible to remove without damaging the element.

Years ago I bought a new weller - the stat lasted nearly 2 weeks before
welding closed, they sent me a replacement FOC which lasted nearly a month
before also welding closed - unfortunately I was away from my bench at the
time and it burned out the element, I've been using Antex irons ever since,
they usually last at least 5 years as long as the bit is replaced at the
proper interval and I can buy at least a 30 year supply of Antex irons for
just the weller (not including transformer base) iron.

I'd only use weller again if it was free (and I was allowed to keep an Antex
on standby for when the weller packs up).

ian field wrote:
"Joerg" wrote in message
...
William Sommerwerck wrote:
I don't know which brands you're referring to, but I've owned EDSYN
(Engineering Dedicated To Suit Your Needs!) irons for 20+ years, and they
don't look anything like that.


... and wherever in the world I happened to be, there were always those
Weller stations. Antex? Never seen it, never heard of it. Strange, ain't
it?


The weller irons were once the best money could buy - then they got took
over by cooper tools, since then the bean counters reduced the thickness of
the iron plating so the bit oxidises in the barrel, "freezing" in and
impossible to remove without damaging the element.

Years ago I bought a new weller - the stat lasted nearly 2 weeks before
welding closed, they sent me a replacement FOC which lasted nearly a month
before also welding closed - unfortunately I was away from my bench at the
time and it burned out the element, I've been using Antex irons ever since,
they usually last at least 5 years as long as the bit is replaced at the
proper interval and I can buy at least a 30 year supply of Antex irons for
just the weller (not including transformer base) iron.

I'd only use weller again if it was free (and I was allowed to keep an Antex
on standby for when the weller packs up).


Strange. I've suggested the Weller WES51 with the PES51 pencil to many
clients and then they bought oodles of those. Never a problem, in years,
and this stuff is cranking at least 10h/day. Ok, they don't light
cigarettes anymore like people use to with the older Wellers because
smoking is no longer allowed in US businesses.

Last year in December I bought a WES51 also here for the lab, to have a
spare. But I started using it a lot because the tiny PES51 pencil lays
much nicer in the hand than the fat LR-20 of the older stations. They
also added a nice feature, not important to me but to companies and the
fire marshall: If the iron isn't moved in an hour or so it automatically
shuts down. Grand total of $92 plus tax, with pencil and one tip, not a
bad deal at all.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

In article ,
says...

"Joerg" wrote in message
...
William Sommerwerck wrote:
I don't know which brands you're referring to, but I've owned EDSYN
(Engineering Dedicated To Suit Your Needs!) irons for 20+ years, and they
don't look anything like that.


... and wherever in the world I happened to be, there were always those
Weller stations. Antex? Never seen it, never heard of it. Strange, ain't
it?


The weller irons were once the best money could buy - then they got took
over by cooper tools, since then the bean counters reduced the thickness of
the iron plating so the bit oxidises in the barrel, "freezing" in and
impossible to remove without damaging the element.

Years ago I bought a new weller - the stat lasted nearly 2 weeks before
welding closed, they sent me a replacement FOC which lasted nearly a month
before also welding closed - unfortunately I was away from my bench at the
time and it burned out the element, I've been using Antex irons ever since,
they usually last at least 5 years as long as the bit is replaced at the
proper interval and I can buy at least a 30 year supply of Antex irons for
just the weller (not including transformer base) iron.

I'd only use weller again if it was free (and I was allowed to keep an Antex
on standby for when the weller packs up).

I've got this one. Works perfectly - the only issue I've run into is
having to know the melting point temps. Other than that I love it.

http://www.mpja.com/productsdirect.a...79&item1=15860
+TL&item2=15845+TL&item3=15140+TL&item4=15141+TL

"Joerg" wrote in message
...
ian field wrote:
"Joerg" wrote in message
...
William Sommerwerck wrote:
I don't know which brands you're referring to, but I've owned EDSYN
(Engineering Dedicated To Suit Your Needs!) irons for 20+ years, and
they
don't look anything like that.


... and wherever in the world I happened to be, there were always those
Weller stations. Antex? Never seen it, never heard of it. Strange, ain't
it?


The weller irons were once the best money could buy - then they got took
over by cooper tools, since then the bean counters reduced the thickness
of the iron plating so the bit oxidises in the barrel, "freezing" in and
impossible to remove without damaging the element.

Years ago I bought a new weller - the stat lasted nearly 2 weeks before
welding closed, they sent me a replacement FOC which lasted nearly a
month before also welding closed - unfortunately I was away from my bench
at the time and it burned out the element, I've been using Antex irons
ever since, they usually last at least 5 years as long as the bit is
replaced at the proper interval and I can buy at least a 30 year supply
of Antex irons for just the weller (not including transformer base) iron.

I'd only use weller again if it was free (and I was allowed to keep an
Antex on standby for when the weller packs up).

Strange. I've suggested the Weller WES51 with the PES51 pencil to many
clients and then they bought oodles of those. Never a problem, in years,
and this stuff is cranking at least 10h/day. Ok, they don't light
cigarettes anymore like people use to with the older Wellers because
smoking is no longer allowed in US businesses.

Last year in December I bought a WES51 also here for the lab, to have a
spare. But I started using it a lot because the tiny PES51 pencil lays
much nicer in the hand than the fat LR-20 of the older stations. They also
added a nice feature, not important to me but to companies and the fire
marshall: If the iron isn't moved in an hour or so it automatically shuts
down. Grand total of $92 plus tax, with pencil and one tip, not a bad deal
at all.


Maybe they learned from the mass exodus of customers and fixed the non
existent reliability since the last time I had the misfortune to pay good
money for one of their products, but once bitten twice shy, I'm not giving
them any more of my money.

Joerg wrote:
William Sommerwerck wrote:
I thought the Miata was ugly, until I saw a PT Cruiser. ;-)

The design is reminiscent of the Chrysler Airstream, which was
a major flop 70+ years ago.

AFAIK the Airstream was not a major flop. The Airflow was, but
mostly due to really bad manufacturing defects.

I might have gotten the name wrong, as I was in a rush. Regardless,
Chrysler
produced a "streamlined" car that the public didn't warm to.


Reason I mentioned it was that the Airflow doesn't look similar to the
PT Cruiser at all while the Airstream does (with the PT Cruiser being a
whole lot smaller).


The Airflow was Ferdinand Porsche's inspiration for the Volkswagen.
That's why most people's immediate reaction on seeing it is "Whoa--a
huge Beetle!"

Cheers,

Phil Hobbs

Phil Hobbs wrote:
Joerg wrote:
William Sommerwerck wrote:
I thought the Miata was ugly, until I saw a PT Cruiser. ;-)

The design is reminiscent of the Chrysler Airstream, which was
a major flop 70+ years ago.

AFAIK the Airstream was not a major flop. The Airflow was, but
mostly due to really bad manufacturing defects.

I might have gotten the name wrong, as I was in a rush. Regardless,
Chrysler
produced a "streamlined" car that the public didn't warm to.


Reason I mentioned it was that the Airflow doesn't look similar to the
PT Cruiser at all while the Airstream does (with the PT Cruiser being
a whole lot smaller).


The Airflow was Ferdinand Porsche's inspiration for the Volkswagen.
That's why most people's immediate reaction on seeing it is "Whoa--a
huge Beetle!"


Not really. AFAIK it was this one that inspired Porsche, he supposedly
had technical discussions with Hans Ledwinka who designed the Tatra car:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tatra_T_77a.jpg

Hard to say though because the Chrysler Airflow came to market at just
about the same time. However, back in those days there was no fast mail,
Internet or even air travel between the US and Europe so information
exchanges would have been slow.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 13:47:14 -0700, Joerg wrote:

Strange. I've suggested the Weller WES51 with the PES51 pencil to many
clients and then they bought oodles of those. Never a problem, in years,
and this stuff is cranking at least 10h/day. Ok, they don't light
cigarettes anymore like people use to with the older Wellers because
smoking is no longer allowed in US businesses.

Unless it's a weld shop and the boss is a smoker. It is private property,
after all. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 16:16:45 +0100, ian field wrote:
"Joerg" wrote in message

Last year in December I bought a WES51 also here for the lab, to have a
spare. But I started using it a lot because the tiny PES51 pencil lays
much nicer in the hand than the fat LR-20 of the older stations. They
also added a nice feature, not important to me but to companies and the
fire marshall: If the iron isn't moved in an hour or so it automatically
shuts down. Grand total of $92 plus tax, with pencil and one tip, not a
bad deal at all.

Maybe they learned from the mass exodus of customers and fixed the non
existent reliability since the last time I had the misfortune to pay good
money for one of their products, but once bitten twice shy, I'm not giving
them any more of my money.

The same reason I'll never buy another NiMH battery or CFL light.

Cheers!
Rich

Rich Grise wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 16:16:45 +0100, ian field wrote:
"Joerg" wrote in message
Last year in December I bought a WES51 also here for the lab, to have a
spare. But I started using it a lot because the tiny PES51 pencil lays
much nicer in the hand than the fat LR-20 of the older stations. They
also added a nice feature, not important to me but to companies and the
fire marshall: If the iron isn't moved in an hour or so it automatically
shuts down. Grand total of $92 plus tax, with pencil and one tip, not a
bad deal at all.

Maybe they learned from the mass exodus of customers and fixed the non
existent reliability since the last time I had the misfortune to pay good
money for one of their products, but once bitten twice shy, I'm not giving
them any more of my money.

The same reason I'll never buy another NiMH battery or CFL light.


It was the same for me, for a few years. Then I tried another batch of
CFL because CostCo had them for less than a buck a piece. Philips
Marathon, and they last and last and last. Of course I'd never buy a CFL
at boutique pricing since that's just not worth it.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

"Joerg" wrote in message
...
Rich Grise wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 16:16:45 +0100, ian field wrote:
"Joerg" wrote in message
Last year in December I bought a WES51 also here for the lab, to have a
spare. But I started using it a lot because the tiny PES51 pencil lays
much nicer in the hand than the fat LR-20 of the older stations. They
also added a nice feature, not important to me but to companies and the
fire marshall: If the iron isn't moved in an hour or so it
automatically
shuts down. Grand total of $92 plus tax, with pencil and one tip, not a
bad deal at all.

Maybe they learned from the mass exodus of customers and fixed the non
existent reliability since the last time I had the misfortune to pay
good
money for one of their products, but once bitten twice shy, I'm not
giving
them any more of my money.

The same reason I'll never buy another NiMH battery or CFL light.


It was the same for me, for a few years. Then I tried another batch of CFL
because CostCo had them for less than a buck a piece. Philips Marathon,
and they last and last and last. Of course I'd never buy a CFL at boutique
pricing since that's just not worth it.


Regardless of brand I still find the light quality is not as advertised - a
20W CFL does NOT produce the same light as a 100W incandescent.

Its difficult for me to make a life expectancy comparison as I had surge
limiting NTC thermistors mounted in the switch plates, this prolonged the
life of incandescent bulbs by an impressive margin - certainly much longer
than some of the first electronic CFLs to hit the market.

In article ,
"ian field" writes:
Regardless of brand I still find the light quality is not as advertised - a
20W CFL does NOT produce the same light as a 100W incandescent.

At least in Europe, the filament lamp equivalance is completely
misleading. (It's comparing against a softone bulb, which has
a painted coating to give a lower colour temperature, and almost
no one uses those, and they're much less efficient than the
commonly used filament lamps.)

In the UK, just use a 4:1 ratio, so 100W replacement will be a
25W CFL. You can get away with slightly less (e.g. 23W) if the
CFL has an exposed tube (no outer bulb) with well-spaced limbs
(minimum self-shadowing), but this also implies significantly
more bulky than the lamp it replaced, and it might not fit.

Generally, 18W CFLs here are marked as 100W equivalent, and
it's very clear to anyone who's tried them that they don't come
close. For those just trying CFLs for the first time, it gives
a very poor first impression, which in many cases is also the
last impression.

In the case of CFL reflector lamps, the ratio to use needs
reducing to 3:1 or even 2:1 for small ones. (A CFL light source
is particularly inappropriate for use in small reflector lamps.)

In countries with different mains voltage, the ratio may need
adjusting, as filament lamp efficiency varies with the design
voltage. (The most efficient voltage to design a 100W lamp is
about 55V, given a reasonable life requirement, and as you move
the design voltage away from 55V in either direction, the lamp
efficiency drops.)

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"ian field" writes:

In countries with different mains voltage, the ratio may need
adjusting, as filament lamp efficiency varies with the design
voltage. (The most efficient voltage to design a 100W lamp is
about 55V, given a reasonable life requirement, and as you move
the design voltage away from 55V in either direction, the lamp
efficiency drops.)


Interesting. I can see it dropping due to conduction losses when the
voltage gets too low (so that the wire gets too fat) but what's the
mechanism for the drop-off at high voltages?

Cheers,

Phil Hobbs

In article ,
Phil Hobbs writes:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"ian field" writes:

In countries with different mains voltage, the ratio may need
adjusting, as filament lamp efficiency varies with the design
voltage. (The most efficient voltage to design a 100W lamp is
about 55V, given a reasonable life requirement, and as you move
the design voltage away from 55V in either direction, the lamp
efficiency drops.)


Interesting. I can see it dropping due to conduction losses when the
voltage gets too low (so that the wire gets too fat) but what's the
mechanism for the drop-off at high voltages?

Designing a full range of filament lamps to operate over a
wide range of voltages is a challenge rather like trying to
solve a set of simultaneous equations when there aren't
enough variables, so you end up with compromises, such as
lower efficiency.

To make a 240V filament, you need a very long thin wire.
It has far too much surface area to get to the 2700K operating
temperature without radiating 100W away at a lower temperature.
The way 240V filament lamps are made to work is to double
coil the filament, so that much of the filament is radiating
heat back onto itself, and the effective surface area for
radiating heat away from the filament is significantly
less than the filament's real surface area. This isn't as
effective as using an optimum thickness filament in the first
place, i.e. you have just the right surface area to radiate
100W when it's reached 2700K, and you still have a larger
surface area for filament evaporation and thinning.

And yes, you're right about heat loss by conduction down the
lead-in wires becoming increasingly significant at low
voltages/high currents. With longer fragile filaments, the loss
from the ends is proportionally less, but you may also require
filament supports, which are additional routes to lose heat,
and you lose more by convection to the gas-fill.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
Richard The Dreaded Libertarian wrote:



I could live with arbitrarily high gasonline taxes, since I only have a
bike. ;-)



So all the things you buy are delivered to the stores on bikes?

On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 18:23:57 -0700, Smitty Two wrote:
Richard The Dreaded Libertarian wrote:

I could live with arbitrarily high gasonline taxes, since I only have a
bike. ;-)

So all the things you buy are delivered to the stores on bikes?

That's not my call, thank you very much.

Cheers!
Rich

In article ,
Richard the Dreaded Libertarian wrote:

On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 18:23:57 -0700, Smitty Two wrote:
Richard The Dreaded Libertarian wrote:

I could live with arbitrarily high gasonline taxes, since I only have a
bike. ;-)

So all the things you buy are delivered to the stores on bikes?

That's not my call, thank you very much.

Cheers!
Rich

Um, uh, hello? So you really think that gasoline prices don't impact
your life, just because you personally don't burn the stuff? You don't
think the prices of every single thing you buy are influenced heavily by
fuel costs? Your world isn't *that* insular, is it?

Smitty Two wrote:

In article ,
Richard the Dreaded Libertarian wrote:

On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 18:23:57 -0700, Smitty Two wrote:
Richard The Dreaded Libertarian wrote:

I could live with arbitrarily high gasonline taxes, since I only have a
bike. ;-)

So all the things you buy are delivered to the stores on bikes?

That's not my call, thank you very much.

Cheers!
Rich

Um, uh, hello? So you really think that gasoline prices don't impact
your life, just because you personally don't burn the stuff? You don't
think the prices of every single thing you buy are influenced heavily by
fuel costs? Your world isn't *that* insular, is it?


He doesn't think. That's the problem. As long as he can get his
booze, he doesn't care.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 13:53:49 -0700, Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
Richard the Dreaded Libertarian wrote:
On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 18:23:57 -0700, Smitty Two wrote:
Richard The Dreaded Libertarian wrote:

I could live with arbitrarily high gasonline taxes, since I only have a
bike. ;-)

So all the things you buy are delivered to the stores on bikes?

That's not my call, thank you very much.

Um, uh, hello? So you really think that gasoline prices don't impact
your life, just because you personally don't burn the stuff? You don't
think the prices of every single thing you buy are influenced heavily by
fuel costs? Your world isn't *that* insular, is it?

Gawd, you people sure do make up a lot of stuff. Prices are going up
anyway, for any number of reasons; I have no control over that in any
case. (Try buying food that used no fuel in the manufacturing.) All I
was saying is that I don't buy gasoline.

Are you advocating lobbying for fuelless food delivery? Sorry, I'm not
one of those activist fools.

Thanks,
Rich

YOU CAN ALL CLEAN MY PROBE

I AM PROTEUS

On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 18:00:21 GMT, qrk wrote:

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 21:08:32 +0100, Allus Smith
wrote:

All this talk about soldering irons makes me think how crummy too
much American industrial design is.

Some US industrial design looks great but some looks downright,
well, Russian.

Sure you can see crap-looking design in western Europe too but
there's a lot less of it than in the US.

Take soldering irons for example. An ordinary soldering iron in
the US with unregulated temperature still has great big mofo screws
holding the tip.

By comparison, my 30 year old British-made basic Antex is a sleek
looking baby and those Antexes are not particularly expensive.

Don't start me on the looks of cars!

If you expect something from a $10 hardware store soldering iron
that's made in China, you shouldn't be in electronics. The only people
who use those are kids starting out in tronics and people who don't
know anything about electronics.

If you want a good iron, get a Metcal (now OK). Metcal has soldering
irons for under $200 which work very well for SMT and thruhole. My
only gripe about the cheap Metcals is the tip temperature only goes up
to 750 deg F. Gotta use my 20+ year old Weller iron for melting
isulation off of magnet wire.

If you really want to see a classic soldering iron, get your hands on
an American Beauty! You'll drop your shorts when you get your hands on
that one.

My dad had one, 150 W i think. It would solder 12 Ga. sheet metal.

On Apr 21, 6:08*am, Allus Smith wrote:
All this talk about soldering irons makes me think how crummy too
much American industrial design is.

Some US industrial design looks great but some looks downright,
well, Russian.

Sure you can see crap-looking design in western Europe too but
there's a lot less of it than in the US.

Take soldering irons for example. *An ordinary soldering iron in
the US with unregulated temperature still has great big mofo screws
holding the tip.

By comparison, my 30 year old British-made basic Antex is a sleek
looking baby and those Antexes are not particularly expensive.

Don't start me on the looks of cars!

--
Russian in Americahttp://www.funnyordie.com/videos/bc54d50403/svetlana-pilot-episode

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Oh, but the Russians do have some interesting products


http://www.artlebedev.ru/everything/vilcus/


"its for people who like connecting electricity with own fingers"

"there are many curious people trying to get their fingers in plug,
and
this is an easy way to do it"



and at bottom under the power board
"our perfectly designed network port will match group sessions"