All this talk about soldering irons makes me think how crummy too
much American industrial design is.

Some US industrial design looks great but some looks downright,
well, Russian.

Sure you can see crap-looking design in western Europe too but
there's a lot less of it than in the US.

Take soldering irons for example. An ordinary soldering iron in
the US with unregulated temperature still has great big mofo screws
holding the tip.

By comparison, my 30 year old British-made basic Antex is a sleek
looking baby and those Antexes are not particularly expensive.

Don't start me on the looks of cars!


--
Russian in America
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/bc5...-pilot-episode

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 21:08:32 +0100, Allus Smith
wrote:

All this talk about soldering irons makes me think how crummy too
much American industrial design is.

Some US industrial design looks great but some looks downright,
well, Russian.

Sure you can see crap-looking design in western Europe too but
there's a lot less of it than in the US.

Take soldering irons for example. An ordinary soldering iron in
the US with unregulated temperature still has great big mofo screws
holding the tip.

By comparison, my 30 year old British-made basic Antex is a sleek
looking baby and those Antexes are not particularly expensive.

Don't start me on the looks of cars!

Same troll. Must be bored...

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 21:08:32 +0100, Allus Smith
wrote:

All this talk about soldering irons makes me think how crummy too
much American industrial design is.

Some US industrial design looks great but some looks downright,
well, Russian.

Sure you can see crap-looking design in western Europe too but
there's a lot less of it than in the US.

Take soldering irons for example. An ordinary soldering iron in
the US with unregulated temperature still has great big mofo screws
holding the tip.

By comparison, my 30 year old British-made basic Antex is a sleek
looking baby and those Antexes are not particularly expensive.

Don't start me on the looks of cars!

If you buy cheap, you get cheap.

Get a Metcal. No screw at all.

Don't start me on the looks of cars!

Mini. Citroën. Vauxhall. Volvo. Rolls. Porsche. Fiat.

http://philip.greenspun.com/images/p...evaux-20.4.jpg


John

On 20 Apr 21:36, Rich Webb wrote:

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 21:08:32 +0100, Allus Smith wrote:

All this talk about soldering irons makes me think how crummy
too much American industrial design is.

Some US industrial design looks great but some looks
downright, well, Russian.

Sure you can see crap-looking design in western Europe too but
there's a lot less of it than in the US.

Take soldering irons for example. An ordinary soldering iron
in the US with unregulated temperature still has great big
mofo screws holding the tip.

By comparison, my 30 year old British-made basic Antex is a
sleek looking baby and those Antexes are not particularly
expensive.

Don't start me on the looks of cars!

Same troll. Must be bored...


Hello Rich, I'm the OP. I'm sorry to hear you think I'm a troll.

I don't know what you mean by "same" becuase I have only posted
here recently and I hope there isn't another post which could be
misconstrued as a troll.

Perhaps you just don't like my point of view?

On 20 Apr 22:23, John Larkin wrote:

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 21:08:32 +0100, Allus Smith
wrote:

All this talk about soldering irons makes me think how crummy
too much American industrial design is.

Some US industrial design looks great but some looks
downright, well, Russian.

Sure you can see crap-looking design in western Europe too but
there's a lot less of it than in the US.

Take soldering irons for example. An ordinary soldering iron
in the US with unregulated temperature still has great big
mofo screws holding the tip.

By comparison, my 30 year old British-made basic Antex is a
sleek looking baby and those Antexes are not particularly
expensive.

Don't start me on the looks of cars!

If you buy cheap, you get cheap.
Get a Metcal. No screw at all.

Don't start me on the looks of cars!

Mini. Citroën. Vauxhall. Volvo. Rolls. Porsche. Fiat.
http://philip.greenspun.com/images/pcd3815/
dublin-deux-chevaux-20.4.jpg

John



Yup, you're right! Which is why I wrote: "you can see crap-looking
design in western Europe too ..... but there's a lot less of it
than in the US".

One distinctive feature of US car design is a look I call: "I've
just rammed a wall"

Mercifully, it is almost never found on west European cars and
hopefully never will be. It is illustrated below.

There are probably 200 US cars with this sort of styling:
http://www.swiftweblog.com/media/1/2...2006_300_2.jpg
for every US car that looks like this:
http://www.carforums.net/reviews/mak...Chrysler11.jpg
and that one is still very angular.









--

inc car group

On Apr 20, 5:41 pm, Allus Smith wrote:
On 20 Apr 22:23, John Larkin wrote:


There are probably 200 US cars with this sort of styling:
http://www.swiftweblog.com/media/1/2...2006_300_2.jpg


You are wrong. Despite the recession, Chrysler has sold considerably
more than 200 of that model.

"John-Del" wrote in message
...
On Apr 20, 5:41 pm, Allus Smith wrote:
On 20 Apr 22:23, John Larkin wrote:


There are probably 200 US cars with this sort of styling:
http://www.swiftweblog.com/media/1/2...2006_300_2.jpg


You are wrong. Despite the recession, Chrysler has sold considerably
more than 200 of that model.

That's the thing about being a troll ... no accountability ... they just
blather, and waste bandwidth and time. PLONK him!

John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 21:08:32 +0100, Allus Smith
wrote:

All this talk about soldering irons makes me think how crummy too
much American industrial design is.

Some US industrial design looks great but some looks downright,
well, Russian.

Sure you can see crap-looking design in western Europe too but
there's a lot less of it than in the US.

Take soldering irons for example. An ordinary soldering iron in
the US with unregulated temperature still has great big mofo screws
holding the tip.

By comparison, my 30 year old British-made basic Antex is a sleek
looking baby and those Antexes are not particularly expensive.

Don't start me on the looks of cars!

If you buy cheap, you get cheap.

Get a Metcal. No screw at all.

Don't start me on the looks of cars!

Mini. Citroën. Vauxhall. Volvo. Rolls. Porsche. Fiat.

http://philip.greenspun.com/images/p...evaux-20.4.jpg


Now, now, don't diss that car. I had one for years. IMHO one of the most
clever car designs ever. It boasted features that none of the other cars
even came close to, regardless of which part of the planet they came
from. The epiphany happened on a German autobahn. Hardcore traffic jam,
nothing moved and it didn't look good for the next couple hours or so.
Within less than 60 seconds I had both front seats and the rear bench
sitting on the tarmac, so we could hold a proper poker game. No help,
all by myself. The guy who later joined us for the card game stood there
with his mouth wide open.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

I don't know which brands you're referring to, but I've owned EDSYN
(Engineering Dedicated To Suit Your Needs!) irons for 20+ years, and they
don't look anything like that.

On 21 Apr 00:01, John-Del wrote:

On Apr 20, 5:41 pm, Allus Smith wrote:
On 20 Apr 22:23, John Larkin wrote:


There are probably 200 US cars with this sort of styling:
http://www.swiftweblog.com/media/1/2...2006_300_2.jpg

You are wrong. Despite the recession, Chrysler has sold
considerably more than 200 of that model.


I should hope so too! :-) However I didn't say that. I said:

"There are probably 200 US cars with this sort of styling [Chrysler
300] for every US car that looks like this [Chrysler ME] and that
one is still very angular."

Of course that Chrysler ME 4-12 is a concept car and not for sale.

William Sommerwerck wrote:
I don't know which brands you're referring to, but I've owned EDSYN
(Engineering Dedicated To Suit Your Needs!) irons for 20+ years, and they
don't look anything like that.


.... and wherever in the world I happened to be, there were always those
Weller stations. Antex? Never seen it, never heard of it. Strange, ain't it?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

Allus Smith wrote:
On 21 Apr 00:01, John-Del wrote:

On Apr 20, 5:41 pm, Allus Smith wrote:
On 20 Apr 22:23, John Larkin wrote:

There are probably 200 US cars with this sort of styling:
http://www.swiftweblog.com/media/1/2...2006_300_2.jpg
You are wrong. Despite the recession, Chrysler has sold
considerably more than 200 of that model.


I should hope so too! :-) However I didn't say that. I said:

"There are probably 200 US cars with this sort of styling [Chrysler
300] for every US car that looks like this [Chrysler ME] and that
one is still very angular."

Of course that Chrysler ME 4-12 is a concept car and not for sale.


This is not a concept car and you can actually buy one for a reasonable
price. I lately had the pleasure and that thing sure corners well. Best
of all, on the freeway it doesn't use more gas than a compact passenger car:

http://www.chevrolet.com/corvette/

Same he

http://www.dodge.com/en/2008/viper/

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

On 20 Apr 21:08, Allus Smith wrote:

On 21 Apr 01:08, William Sommerwerck wrote:

All this talk about soldering irons makes me think how crummy
too much American industrial design is.

Some US industrial design looks great but some looks
downright, well, Russian.

Sure you can see crap-looking design in western Europe too
but there's a lot less of it than in the US.

Take soldering irons for example. An ordinary soldering iron
in the US with unregulated temperature still has great big
mofo screws holding the tip.

By comparison, my 30 year old British-made basic Antex is a
sleek looking baby and those Antexes are not particularly
expensive.

Don't start me on the looks of cars!


I don't know which brands you're referring to, but I've owned
EDSYN (Engineering Dedicated To Suit Your Needs!) irons for
20+ years, and they don't look anything like that.


EDSYN are lovely irons but none of them list for under $100 and
I believe they all have temperature regulation.

Apologies if I wasn't clear but EDSYN wasn't what I had in mind
when I said "An ordinary soldering iron in the US with
unregulated temperature". I mean the cheaper end of the market
but not as cheap the rock-bottom $5 irons!

http://www.edsyn.com/index.php?Mode=SolderingStations

Allus Smith wrote:
On 20 Apr 21:08, Allus Smith wrote:

On 21 Apr 01:08, William Sommerwerck wrote:
All this talk about soldering irons makes me think how crummy
too much American industrial design is.

Some US industrial design looks great but some looks
downright, well, Russian.

Sure you can see crap-looking design in western Europe too
but there's a lot less of it than in the US.

Take soldering irons for example. An ordinary soldering iron
in the US with unregulated temperature still has great big
mofo screws holding the tip.

By comparison, my 30 year old British-made basic Antex is a
sleek looking baby and those Antexes are not particularly
expensive.

Don't start me on the looks of cars!

I don't know which brands you're referring to, but I've owned
EDSYN (Engineering Dedicated To Suit Your Needs!) irons for
20+ years, and they don't look anything like that.


EDSYN are lovely irons but none of them list for under $100 and
I believe they all have temperature regulation.


Ahm, what? See below.


Apologies if I wasn't clear but EDSYN wasn't what I had in mind
when I said "An ordinary soldering iron in the US with
unregulated temperature". I mean the cheaper end of the market
but not as cheap the rock-bottom $5 irons!

http://www.edsyn.com/index.php?Mode=SolderingStations


Tell me, where's that ugly side-screw on this one?

http://www.edsyn.com/index.php?Mode=piw&pn=CL1481

Regarding your comment above, last time I checked $54.86 was still less
than $100 ...

Oh, and no temperature regulation :-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 21:08:32 +0100, Allus Smith wrote:

Take soldering irons for example. An ordinary soldering iron in the US
with unregulated temperature still has great big mofo screws holding the
tip.

Lol, idiot yank doesn't realise that "Made in the USA" really means
assembled in the USA by illegal immigrant workers.

Welcome to the third work, Yank.

terryc wrote:

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 21:08:32 +0100, Allus Smith wrote:

Take soldering irons for example. An ordinary soldering iron in the US
with unregulated temperature still has great big mofo screws holding the
tip.

Lol, idiot yank doesn't realise that "Made in the USA" really means
assembled in the USA by illegal immigrant workers.


Didn't you hear? A lot of them are out of work and driving
overloaded old pieces of junk back to mexico, loaded down with
everything they can haul.

Welcome to the third work, Yank.


You should talk. You Aussies bred and raised Phil Allison.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 20:56:34 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


You should talk. You Aussies INbred and MISraised Phil Allison.


IFYPFY, idiot.

Allus Smith wrote:

On 20 Apr 21:08, Allus Smith wrote:

On 21 Apr 01:08, William Sommerwerck wrote:

All this talk about soldering irons makes me think how crummy
too much American industrial design is.

Some US industrial design looks great but some looks
downright, well, Russian.

Sure you can see crap-looking design in western Europe too
but there's a lot less of it than in the US.

Take soldering irons for example. An ordinary soldering iron
in the US with unregulated temperature still has great big
mofo screws holding the tip.

By comparison, my 30 year old British-made basic Antex is a
sleek looking baby and those Antexes are not particularly
expensive.

Don't start me on the looks of cars!


I don't know which brands you're referring to, but I've owned
EDSYN (Engineering Dedicated To Suit Your Needs!) irons for
20+ years, and they don't look anything like that.


EDSYN are lovely irons but none of them list for under $100 and
I believe they all have temperature regulation.

Apologies if I wasn't clear but EDSYN wasn't what I had in mind
when I said "An ordinary soldering iron in the US with
unregulated temperature". I mean the cheaper end of the market
but not as cheap the rock-bottom $5 irons!


How about the Weller irons like the SP23? I have owned one or more at
a time from the early '70s. The tip is threaded into the heating
element and it retails for under $20. I bought a new one last year
after the threads finally corroded out of the element after 35 years of
use. I only use the non regulated irons to make cables, or for antique
electronics. For modern ESD sensitive equipment I used the Edsyn Loner
series and had three irons on my bench, one with a .015" tip in a
reducing collet.

I also have the 175 watt version that does use a set screw to hold the
tip.

25 watt:
http://www.cooperhandtools.com/brands/CF_Files/model_detail.cfm?upc=037103169228
175 watt:
http://www.cooperhandtools.com/brands/CF_Files/model_detail.cfm?upc=037103474674

--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

Allus Smith wrote:
Don't start me on the looks of cars!

OK

geoff

On 21 Apr 01:45, Joerg wrote:

Allus Smith wrote:
On 20 Apr 21:08, Allus Smith wrote:

On 21 Apr 01:08, William Sommerwerck wrote:
All this talk about soldering irons makes me think how
crummy too much American industrial design is.

Some US industrial design looks great but some looks
downright, well, Russian.

Sure you can see crap-looking design in western Europe too
but there's a lot less of it than in the US.

Take soldering irons for example. An ordinary soldering
iron in the US with unregulated temperature still has great
big mofo screws holding the tip.

By comparison, my 30 year old British-made basic Antex is a
sleek looking baby and those Antexes are not particularly
expensive.

Don't start me on the looks of cars!

I don't know which brands you're referring to, but I've
owned EDSYN (Engineering Dedicated To Suit Your Needs!)
irons for 20+ years, and they don't look anything like that.


EDSYN are lovely irons but none of them list for under $100
and I believe they all have temperature regulation.


Ahm, what? See below.


Apologies if I wasn't clear but EDSYN wasn't what I had in
mind when I said "An ordinary soldering iron in the US with
unregulated temperature". I mean the cheaper end of the
market but not as cheap the rock-bottom $5 irons!

http://www.edsyn.com/index.php?Mode=SolderingStations


Tell me, where's that ugly side-screw on this one?

http://www.edsyn.com/index.php?Mode=piw&pn=CL1481

Regarding your comment above, last time I checked $54.86 was
still less than $100 ...

Oh, and no temperature regulation :-)


Good point Joerg. I missed that one in the online catalogue.

You may be misunderstanding me if you think I said ALL basic
American soldering irons look Russian. I meant to say there was a
lot more of this sort of poor design in the US than in western
Europe. A single item doesn't really prove or disprove it.

However. as you kindly drew my attention to EDSYN then I show
illustrate the Antexes I mentioned.

http://www.antex.co.uk/prodtype.asp?CAT_ID=180
&strPageHistory=category

Consumer goods are cheaper in the US, so the usual $1 = £1 is
probably a good indicator of the sort of price level these irons
are at. It's the sub $20 market (including tax).

On 21 Apr 01:39, Joerg wrote:

Allus Smith wrote:
On 21 Apr 00:01, John-Del wrote:

On Apr 20, 5:41 pm, Allus Smith wrote:
On 20 Apr 22:23, John Larkin wrote:

There are probably 200 US cars with this sort of styling:
http://www.swiftweblog.com/media/1/20050616-C2006_
300_2.jpg


You are wrong. Despite the recession, Chrysler has sold
considerably more than 200 of that model.

I should hope so too! :-) However I didn't say that. I
said:

"There are probably 200 US cars with this sort of styling
[Chrysler 300] for every US car that looks like this
[Chrysler ME] and that one is still very angular."

Of course that Chrysler ME 4-12 is a concept car and not for
sale.

This is not a concept car and you can actually buy one for a
reasonable price. I lately had the pleasure and that thing
sure corners well. Best of all, on the freeway it doesn't use
more gas than a compact passenger car:

http://www.chevrolet.com/corvette/
Same he
http://www.dodge.com/en/2008/viper/



The Corvette and Viper are lovely cars. They're not exactly
typical of American design.

That's what I meant when I said there are probably 200 cars which
have that "hit a brick wall" look for every one which looks sleek
and smooth.

Allus Smith wrote:
On 21 Apr 01:39, Joerg wrote:

Allus Smith wrote:
On 21 Apr 00:01, John-Del wrote:

On Apr 20, 5:41 pm, Allus Smith wrote:
On 20 Apr 22:23, John Larkin wrote:

There are probably 200 US cars with this sort of styling:
http://www.swiftweblog.com/media/1/20050616-C2006_
300_2.jpg

You are wrong. Despite the recession, Chrysler has sold
considerably more than 200 of that model.
I should hope so too! :-) However I didn't say that. I
said:

"There are probably 200 US cars with this sort of styling
[Chrysler 300] for every US car that looks like this
[Chrysler ME] and that one is still very angular."

Of course that Chrysler ME 4-12 is a concept car and not for
sale.
This is not a concept car and you can actually buy one for a
reasonable price. I lately had the pleasure and that thing
sure corners well. Best of all, on the freeway it doesn't use
more gas than a compact passenger car:

http://www.chevrolet.com/corvette/
Same he
http://www.dodge.com/en/2008/viper/



The Corvette and Viper are lovely cars. They're not exactly
typical of American design.


They are as American as it gets ;-)


That's what I meant when I said there are probably 200 cars which
have that "hit a brick wall" look for every one which looks sleek
and smooth.


Well, I am not a great fan of US passenger cars. Not because of the
looks (where I could care less because that doesn't matter to me as a
buyer) but because of reliability. US trucks, however, are real work
horses and they don't really have any EU equivalent. AFAIK only two
foreign companies, Toyota and Nissan, make such trucks.

Then, the little Jeep looks quite cool.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 22:41:56 +0100, Allus Smith
wrote:

On 20 Apr 22:23, John Larkin wrote:

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 21:08:32 +0100, Allus Smith
wrote:

All this talk about soldering irons makes me think how crummy
too much American industrial design is.

Some US industrial design looks great but some looks
downright, well, Russian.

Sure you can see crap-looking design in western Europe too but
there's a lot less of it than in the US.

Take soldering irons for example. An ordinary soldering iron
in the US with unregulated temperature still has great big
mofo screws holding the tip.

By comparison, my 30 year old British-made basic Antex is a
sleek looking baby and those Antexes are not particularly
expensive.

Don't start me on the looks of cars!

If you buy cheap, you get cheap.
Get a Metcal. No screw at all.

Don't start me on the looks of cars!

Mini. Citroën. Vauxhall. Volvo. Rolls. Porsche. Fiat.
http://philip.greenspun.com/images/pcd3815/
dublin-deux-chevaux-20.4.jpg

John



Yup, you're right! Which is why I wrote: "you can see crap-looking
design in western Europe too ..... but there's a lot less of it
than in the US".

One distinctive feature of US car design is a look I call: "I've
just rammed a wall"

If you want to stuff a huge V8 with 200 tons of air conditioning and
power-everything under the hood, you need a lot of hood.

But Cadillac and most things Chrysler are admittedly over the top.
They corner the ugly-car-lover market.

John

Allus Smith wrote:
On 21 Apr 01:45, Joerg wrote:

Allus Smith wrote:
On 20 Apr 21:08, Allus Smith wrote:
On 21 Apr 01:08, William Sommerwerck wrote:
All this talk about soldering irons makes me think how
crummy too much American industrial design is.

Some US industrial design looks great but some looks
downright, well, Russian.

Sure you can see crap-looking design in western Europe too
but there's a lot less of it than in the US.

Take soldering irons for example. An ordinary soldering
iron in the US with unregulated temperature still has great
big mofo screws holding the tip.

By comparison, my 30 year old British-made basic Antex is a
sleek looking baby and those Antexes are not particularly
expensive.

Don't start me on the looks of cars!

I don't know which brands you're referring to, but I've
owned EDSYN (Engineering Dedicated To Suit Your Needs!)
irons for 20+ years, and they don't look anything like that.

EDSYN are lovely irons but none of them list for under $100
and I believe they all have temperature regulation.

Ahm, what? See below.


Apologies if I wasn't clear but EDSYN wasn't what I had in
mind when I said "An ordinary soldering iron in the US with
unregulated temperature". I mean the cheaper end of the
market but not as cheap the rock-bottom $5 irons!

http://www.edsyn.com/index.php?Mode=SolderingStations

Tell me, where's that ugly side-screw on this one?

http://www.edsyn.com/index.php?Mode=piw&pn=CL1481

Regarding your comment above, last time I checked $54.86 was
still less than $100 ...

Oh, and no temperature regulation :-)


Good point Joerg. I missed that one in the online catalogue.

You may be misunderstanding me if you think I said ALL basic
American soldering irons look Russian. I meant to say there was a
lot more of this sort of poor design in the US than in western
Europe. A single item doesn't really prove or disprove it.


Well, there are tons of them that look sleek and modern. Visit a good
hardware store over here and see for yourself. Or any major Radio Shack.


However. as you kindly drew my attention to EDSYN then I show
illustrate the Antexes I mentioned.

http://www.antex.co.uk/prodtype.asp?CAT_ID=180
&strPageHistory=category

Consumer goods are cheaper in the US, so the usual $1 = £1 is
probably a good indicator of the sort of price level these irons
are at. It's the sub $20 market (including tax).


Antex may be good but they seem to have the same problem as Ersa (I
loved their irons while in Europe): International marketing may be lacking.

Well, check this one out, under $10, no side screw, the tip is threaded
and that screws in as a whole from the front (IIRC):
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2062737

If I'd need a simple iron I'd got for a good name brand, like this one
for $40:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=3348440

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 19:51:20 -0700, John Larkin
wrote:

If you want to stuff a huge V8 with 200 tons of air conditioning and
power-everything under the hood, you need a lot of hood.

But Cadillac and most things Chrysler are admittedly over the top.
They corner the ugly-car-lover market.

John

For good reason. In 1978, the congress critters passed the gas
guzzlers tax:
http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/guzzler/index.htm
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/FEG/info.shtml#guzzler
The typical land yacht, with about 15mpg, pays about $4,000 in gas
guzzlers tax.

The idea was to discourage big ugly oversized non-commercial vehicles.
However, they exempted anything over 6000 lbs GVW. So, in accordance
to the law of unintended consequences, the industry simply delivered
monstrous vehicles that officially weighted 6001 lbs and save a bundle
on the taxes.

Of course, the government derives substantial revenue from taxing what
are now economy and mid size cars, so don't expect the situation to
change in the foreseeable future.


--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 20:48:58 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 19:51:20 -0700, John Larkin
wrote:

If you want to stuff a huge V8 with 200 tons of air conditioning and
power-everything under the hood, you need a lot of hood.

But Cadillac and most things Chrysler are admittedly over the top.
They corner the ugly-car-lover market.

John

For good reason. In 1978, the congress critters passed the gas
guzzlers tax:
http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/guzzler/index.htm
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/FEG/info.shtml#guzzler
The typical land yacht, with about 15mpg, pays about $4,000 in gas
guzzlers tax.

The idea was to discourage big ugly oversized non-commercial vehicles.
However, they exempted anything over 6000 lbs GVW. So, in accordance
to the law of unintended consequences, the industry simply delivered
monstrous vehicles that officially weighted 6001 lbs and save a bundle
on the taxes.

Of course, the government derives substantial revenue from taxing what
are now economy and mid size cars, so don't expect the situation to
change in the foreseeable future.

If the politicoes had any guts+sense, they'd just up the taxes on
gasoline, and let the market take care of the rest.

John

"Joerg" wrote in message
...

This is not a concept car and you can actually buy one for a reasonable
price. I lately had the pleasure and that thing sure corners well. Best of
all, on the freeway it doesn't use more gas than a compact passenger car:

http://www.chevrolet.com/corvette/

Same he

http://www.dodge.com/en/2008/viper/

Ahhh - seppos in attendance!

Neither of the above match the fuel economy of my proper sized passenger
car.

--
And remember kids, RAID is safe and the UPS never fails, and Cisco routers
never develop intermittent faults, and external hard drives never fail with
only a month's use, and the DNS is reliable and resilient, and the
mailserver is protected from all forms of attack, and the replacement UPS
will be reliable as the first one was an unusual failure.

Allus Smith wrote:

All this talk about soldering irons makes me think how crummy too
much American industrial design is.

Some US industrial design looks great but some looks downright,
well, Russian.

Sure you can see crap-looking design in western Europe too but
there's a lot less of it than in the US.

Take soldering irons for example. An ordinary soldering iron in
the US with unregulated temperature still has great big mofo screws
holding the tip.

By comparison, my 30 year old British-made basic Antex is a sleek
looking baby and those Antexes are not particularly expensive.

Don't start me on the looks of cars!


Well, i have seen what might be called a variant, where the tip
screws into the heating section (from RatShop!).

John-Del wrote:
On Apr 20, 5:41 pm, Allus Smith wrote:
On 20 Apr 22:23, John Larkin wrote:


There are probably 200 US cars with this sort of styling:
http://www.swiftweblog.com/media/1/2...2006_300_2.jpg


You are wrong. Despite the recession, Chrysler has sold considerably
more than 200 of that model.


To be fair, they did try to make it look like a Bentley!

Allus Smith wrote:

On 20 Apr 22:23, John Larkin wrote:


On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 21:08:32 +0100, Allus Smith
wrote:


All this talk about soldering irons makes me think how crummy
too much American industrial design is.

Some US industrial design looks great but some looks
downright, well, Russian.

Sure you can see crap-looking design in western Europe too but
there's a lot less of it than in the US.

Take soldering irons for example. An ordinary soldering iron
in the US with unregulated temperature still has great big
mofo screws holding the tip.

By comparison, my 30 year old British-made basic Antex is a
sleek looking baby and those Antexes are not particularly
expensive.

Don't start me on the looks of cars!

If you buy cheap, you get cheap.
Get a Metcal. No screw at all.


Don't start me on the looks of cars!

Mini. Citroën. Vauxhall. Volvo. Rolls. Porsche. Fiat.
http://philip.greenspun.com/images/pcd3815/
dublin-deux-chevaux-20.4.jpg

John




Yup, you're right! Which is why I wrote: "you can see crap-looking
design in western Europe too ..... but there's a lot less of it
than in the US".

One distinctive feature of US car design is a look I call: "I've
just rammed a wall"

Mercifully, it is almost never found on west European cars and
hopefully never will be. It is illustrated below.

There are probably 200 US cars with this sort of styling:
http://www.swiftweblog.com/media/1/2...2006_300_2.jpg
for every US car that looks like this:
http://www.carforums.net/reviews/mak...Chrysler11.jpg
and that one is still very angular.









That last one looks more like a racing car than something for
everyday use.

On Apr 20, 7:30*pm, Allus Smith wrote:
On 21 Apr *00:01, John-Del wrote:

On Apr 20, 5:41 pm, Allus Smith wrote:
On 20 Apr *22:23, John Larkin wrote:

There are probably 200 US cars with this sort of styling:
* *http://www.swiftweblog.com/media/1/2...2006_300_2.jpg

You are wrong. *Despite the recession, Chrysler has sold
considerably more than 200 of that model.

I should hope so too! *:-) *However I didn't say that. I said:

"There are probably 200 US cars with this sort of styling [Chrysler
300] for every US car that looks like this [Chrysler ME] and that
one is still very angular."

Of course that Chrysler ME 4-12 is a concept car and not for sale.

Is the Chrysler ME anything like Windows ME?

Joerg wrote:

the little Jeep looks quite cool.

Jeep reliability and build quality is, however, a bad joke. I've had the
opportunity to compare ten year old Jeeps (Cherokee and Grand Cherokee)
with my ten year old Ford - the Jeeps have all been in poor condition at
lower mileage. I've also found the Dodge/GMC trucks to be better built
than Jeeps, which seems odd. I conly guess that the old AMC spirit of
building rubbish that falls apart still prevails at Jeep.

Allus Smith wrote:

There are probably 200 US cars with this sort of styling:
http://www.swiftweblog.com/media/1/2...2006_300_2.jpg
for every US car that looks like this:
http://www.carforums.net/reviews/mak...Chrysler11.jpg
and that one is still very angular.

What's wrong with the 300C? Put a mesh grille on it and most people
think it's a Bentley. I don't mind kicking the septics for their
dreadful taste in car design, but the 300C or Merc E-class as we call it
here, is a relatively successful design. It's just a shame that the
powertrain and suspension engineering isn't as good as the chassis.

Allus Smith wrote:

All this talk about soldering irons makes me think how crummy too
much American industrial design is.

Some US industrial design looks great but some looks downright,
well, Russian.

Sure you can see crap-looking design in western Europe too but
there's a lot less of it than in the US.

Take soldering irons for example. An ordinary soldering iron in
the US with unregulated temperature still has great big mofo screws
holding the tip.

By comparison, my 30 year old British-made basic Antex is a sleek
looking baby and those Antexes are not particularly expensive.

Model C ?

I had one of those in my hobby days. Lovely for miniature work ( 15W ).
I also had a SOLON 25W. Another classic. The copper bit was held in
place with a split pin. Of course I've had a Weller TCP for decades now.
Love 'em.

Graham

Tim S Kemp wrote:

"Joerg" wrote in message
...

This is not a concept car and you can actually buy one for a
reasonable price. I lately had the pleasure and that thing sure
corners well. Best of all, on the freeway it doesn't use more gas than
a compact passenger car:

http://www.chevrolet.com/corvette/

Same he

http://www.dodge.com/en/2008/viper/

Ahhh - seppos in attendance!

Neither of the above match the fuel economy of my proper sized passenger
car.


Have you ever driven a Corvette? What was the gas mileage?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

Joerg gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying:

This is not a concept car and you can actually buy one for a
reasonable price. I lately had the pleasure and that thing sure
corners well. Best of all, on the freeway it doesn't use more gas than
a compact passenger car:

Neither of the above match the fuel economy of my proper sized
passenger car.

Have you ever driven a Corvette? What was the gas mileage?

I've never driven one. Nobody this side of the pond feels they need to
compensate quite that badly for such a tiny penis.

But, fortunately, we can refer to the official figures.

That'll be www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk, btw.

The extra-urban number for the 'vette is 31.4mpg. Quite impressive, I'll
agree, given the type of vehicle.

But not exactly comparable with the official extra-urban figure for a
"compact passenger car" - let's say a 1.6TDCi Focus. 74.3mpg.

If you look at the much more representative combined figure, the Focus
achieves 62.8mpg vs 21.2 for the 'vette. That's the "economical" 6.2
'vette - the 7.0 Z06 and supercharged ZR1 are worse, of course.

As for the Viper... The official figures for the SRT10 roadster (only
Viper we get through official channels, so the only official figures) are
21.4 extra-urban and 13.4 combined.

Steve Firth wrote:
Joerg wrote:

the little Jeep looks quite cool.

Jeep reliability and build quality is, however, a bad joke. I've had the
opportunity to compare ten year old Jeeps (Cherokee and Grand Cherokee)
with my ten year old Ford - the Jeeps have all been in poor condition at
lower mileage. I've also found the Dodge/GMC trucks to be better built
than Jeeps, which seems odd. I conly guess that the old AMC spirit of
building rubbish that falls apart still prevails at Jeep.

The Excursion is holding up spectacularly well. 125k mainly urban miles
and nothing serious has fallen off or broken in close to seven years.
Trim doesn't squeak or rattle (but is resolutely 'hard touch'), leather
is as new, engine is still near-silent and incredibly smooth, gearbox is
obscenely smooth shifting and responsive. I'm amazed how good it's been.

It's needed a couple of wheel bearings (understandable at 5 tons, up
from 3 ton 'standard' weight), an alternator (again understandable with
extra electrical loads) and the AC radiator changing (once again, extra
load compared to factory spec).

Only things that have broken that you could reasonably blame Ford for
are a coil pack went down at 110k miles (£27) and the fuel tank sender
has packed in, but only to the gauge - the computer still knows how much
fuel is in there.

--
Pete M - OMF#9

Range Rover V8 Turbo
Volvo 850 T5 CD Estate

"Wait! We can't stop here, this is Bat Country"

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 21:08:32 +0100, Allus Smith
wrote:

All this talk about soldering irons makes me think how crummy too
much American industrial design is.

Some US industrial design looks great but some looks downright,
well, Russian.

Sure you can see crap-looking design in western Europe too but
there's a lot less of it than in the US.

Take soldering irons for example. An ordinary soldering iron in
the US with unregulated temperature still has great big mofo screws
holding the tip.

By comparison, my 30 year old British-made basic Antex is a sleek
looking baby and those Antexes are not particularly expensive.

Don't start me on the looks of cars!

If you expect something from a $10 hardware store soldering iron
that's made in China, you shouldn't be in electronics. The only people
who use those are kids starting out in tronics and people who don't
know anything about electronics.

If you want a good iron, get a Metcal (now OK). Metcal has soldering
irons for under $200 which work very well for SMT and thruhole. My
only gripe about the cheap Metcals is the tip temperature only goes up
to 750 deg F. Gotta use my 20+ year old Weller iron for melting
isulation off of magnet wire.

If you really want to see a classic soldering iron, get your hands on
an American Beauty! You'll drop your shorts when you get your hands on
that one.

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 21:08:32 +0100, Allus Smith wrote:

Take soldering irons for example. An ordinary soldering iron in the US
with unregulated temperature still has great big mofo screws holding the
tip.

I have one of these, and a desoldering iron like that; but I also have a
Radio Shack "Princess" iron that uses tips that thread into the element.

Cheers!
Rich

On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 20:05:29 +0000, Rich Grise wrote:
On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 21:08:32 +0100, Allus Smith wrote:

Take soldering irons for example. An ordinary soldering iron in the US
with unregulated temperature still has great big mofo screws holding the
tip.

I have one of these, and a desoldering iron like that; but I also have a
Radio Shack "Princess" iron that uses tips that thread into the element.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2062737
but mine has a pastel blue handle, and uses much smaller, cuter tips.

Cheers!
Rich