Hi, I had a loose power socket and superglued it and that lasted just
fine for a few months. Then it went out beyond
an ability to glue it again, but still have a occasional power
connection when moving it. I pulled out the motherboard and the solder
on the bottom side of the board where the socket connects, the solder
was burnt away and brittle.

I'm not much of a solderer, just have a cheap soldering iron with a
large tip. Is there a pretty much common method to repair this, I was
thinking of dropping a drop of solder where the solder failed instead
of finding somebody to repair it. Then putting the laptop back
together and see if it works and do a re-superglue of the offending
loose socket.

Thanks for any tips or suggestions. Tools needed, over my head in my
abilities?

It's a compaq presario 1692

Thanks

wrote in news:3271315f-dff3-40a0-91e2-11829f986ea0
@i36g2000prf.googlegroups.com:

Hi, I had a loose power socket and superglued it and that lasted just
fine for a few months. Then it went out beyond
an ability to glue it again, but still have a occasional power
connection when moving it. I pulled out the motherboard and the solder
on the bottom side of the board where the socket connects, the solder
was burnt away and brittle.

I'm not much of a solderer, just have a cheap soldering iron with a
large tip. Is there a pretty much common method to repair this, I was
thinking of dropping a drop of solder where the solder failed instead
of finding somebody to repair it. Then putting the laptop back
together and see if it works and do a re-superglue of the offending
loose socket.

Thanks for any tips or suggestions. Tools needed, over my head in my
abilities?

Buy a soldering iron that is the right size at radio-shack.
Could be cheap, provided you practice, a lot, soldering on old PCB boards.


Fix your board yourself.

Use GOOD solder 63/37 NOT 60/40.


It's a compaq presario 1692

Thanks






--
bz 73 de N5BZ k

please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an
infinite set.

remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap

wrote in message
...
Hi, I had a loose power socket and superglued it and that lasted just
fine for a few months. Then it went out beyond
an ability to glue it again, but still have a occasional power
connection when moving it. I pulled out the motherboard and the solder
on the bottom side of the board where the socket connects, the solder
was burnt away and brittle.

I'm not much of a solderer, just have a cheap soldering iron with a
large tip. Is there a pretty much common method to repair this, I was
thinking of dropping a drop of solder where the solder failed instead
of finding somebody to repair it. Then putting the laptop back
together and see if it works and do a re-superglue of the offending
loose socket.

Thanks for any tips or suggestions. Tools needed, over my head in my
abilities?

It's a compaq presario 1692

Thanks


Doesn't sound like you know how to solder at all.

Do a bit of Googling on soldering techniqes, you'll soon learn how to do it
properly, and practice on a bit of scrap PCB if you can find any - you need
to be quick and efficient to prevent damaging your motherboard further with
excessive and prolonged heating.

Your idea of dropping a drop of solder just will not work - the basis of
soldering is that you have to heat up both items to be soldered together to
a temperature sufficient to melt the solder. Solder will not bond to a
metal colder than its melting point, you will get what is called a dry
joint or cold solder joint. You will be able to just scrape the solder off
with your finger. You need to heat up both the component and the PCB solder
pad simultaneously with the iron, then apply solder and let it melt over the
entire joint area, then remove the iron and allow to cool.

If the solder pad is damaged, you may have to add some thin wire to effect a
good repair.

Good luck, and DO practice first, trust me on that one.




Gareth.

On Jun 14, 3:34*am, bz wrote:
snip

Buy a soldering iron that is the right size at radio-shack.
Could be cheap, provided you practice, a lot, soldering on old PCB
boards.

Fix your board yourself.

Use GOOD solder 63/37 NOT 60/40.




--
bz * * *73 de N5BZ k

60/40 is _bad_ solder ? 63/37 is _that_ much better? Or did you mean
40/60 which _is_ bad solder ?

If you're patient with eBay, you can get a Metcal in parts for $100.
Bought 6 so far for at work. After using a Metcal you won't want to
use a Radio Shack soldering tusk.

GG

wrote in news:0f0e8190-5002-4df7-a522-d77de45c1a20
@v1g2000pra.googlegroups.com:

On Jun 14, 3:34*am, bz wrote:
snip

Buy a soldering iron that is the right size at radio-shack.
Could be cheap, provided you practice, a lot, soldering on old PCB
boards.

Fix your board yourself.

Use GOOD solder 63/37 NOT 60/40.

60/40 is _bad_ solder ?

Yes. It passes through the 'plastic' stage during cooling. Do NOT jiggle or
you get a cold solder joint.
It melts at a higher temperature. Harder to get melted and get good solder
flow.

63/37 is _that_ much better?

Yes. Get a eutectic solder. [melts at the minimum temp for an alloy of
those metals].

Or did you mean
40/60 which _is_ bad solder ?

50/50 is worse than 60/40 and 40/60 is even worse.
[bad and good in relation to electronics usage. If you are a plumber, 50/50
might be better for your work.]

If you're patient with eBay, you can get a Metcal in parts for $100.
Bought 6 so far for at work. After using a Metcal you won't want to
use a Radio Shack soldering tusk.

A GOOD, temperature controlled, soldering iron is, OF COURSE, better than a
cheap iron.




--
bz 73 de N5BZ k

please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an
infinite set.

remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap

"Gareth Magennis" wrote:

Your idea of dropping a drop of solder just will not work - the basis of
soldering is that you have to heat up both items to be soldered together to
a temperature sufficient to melt the solder. Solder will not bond to a
metal colder than its melting point, you will get what is called a dry
joint or cold solder joint. You will be able to just scrape the solder off
with your finger. You need to heat up both the component and the PCB solder
pad simultaneously with the iron, then apply solder and let it melt over the
entire joint area, then remove the iron and allow to cool.

Yep, that's the way it's done and why.


--

Forbidden
http://img.skitch.com/20080614-ra41s...f6y9w8pa76.jpg

On Jun 14, 12:30*pm, bz wrote:
wrote in news:0f0e8190-5002-4df7-a522-d77de45c1a20
@v1g2000pra.googlegroups.com:

On Jun 14, 3:34*am, bz wrote:
snip

Buy a soldering iron that is the right size at radio-shack.
Could be cheap, provided you practice, a lot, soldering on old PCB
boards.

Fix your board yourself.

Use GOOD solder 63/37 NOT 60/40.
60/40 is _bad_ solder ?

Yes. It passes through the 'plastic' stage during cooling. Do NOT jiggle or
you get a cold solder joint.
It melts at a higher temperature. Harder to get melted and get good solder
flow.

63/37 is _that_ much better?

Yes. Get a eutectic solder. [melts at the minimum temp for an alloy of
those metals].

Or did you mean

40/60 which _is_ bad solder ?

50/50 is worse than 60/40 and 40/60 is even worse.
[bad and good in relation to electronics usage. If you are a plumber, 50/50
might be better for your work.]



If you're patient with eBay, you can get a Metcal in parts for $100.
Bought 6 so far for at work. After using a Metcal you won't want to
use a Radio Shack soldering tusk.

A GOOD, temperature controlled, soldering iron is, OF COURSE, better than a
cheap iron.

--
bz * * *73 de N5BZ k

please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an
infinite set.

* remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap

Once you do solder it successfully, I would use a glob of epoxy to
help hold things together, not just depend on the glue to hold on by
itself. Good solder bonds can eventually break if they are under a
constant strain, the epoxy just might help lengthen your repair.

Bob Hofmann

"hr(bob) " wrote in message
...
On Jun 14, 12:30 pm, bz wrote:
wrote in news:0f0e8190-5002-4df7-a522-d77de45c1a20
@v1g2000pra.googlegroups.com:

On Jun 14, 3:34 am, bz wrote:
snip

Buy a soldering iron that is the right size at radio-shack.
Could be cheap, provided you practice, a lot, soldering on old PCB
boards.

Fix your board yourself.

Use GOOD solder 63/37 NOT 60/40.
60/40 is _bad_ solder ?

Yes. It passes through the 'plastic' stage during cooling. Do NOT jiggle
or
you get a cold solder joint.
It melts at a higher temperature. Harder to get melted and get good solder
flow.

63/37 is _that_ much better?

Yes. Get a eutectic solder. [melts at the minimum temp for an alloy of
those metals].

Or did you mean

40/60 which _is_ bad solder ?

50/50 is worse than 60/40 and 40/60 is even worse.
[bad and good in relation to electronics usage. If you are a plumber,
50/50
might be better for your work.]



If you're patient with eBay, you can get a Metcal in parts for $100.
Bought 6 so far for at work. After using a Metcal you won't want to
use a Radio Shack soldering tusk.

A GOOD, temperature controlled, soldering iron is, OF COURSE, better than
a
cheap iron.

--
bz 73 de N5BZ k

please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an
infinite set.

remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap

Once you do solder it successfully, I would use a glob of epoxy to
help hold things together, not just depend on the glue to hold on by
itself. Good solder bonds can eventually break if they are under a
constant strain, the epoxy just might help lengthen your repair.

Bob Hofmann



I use my hot melt glue gun a lot. They are cheap and the main advantages
are that you can always peel away the glue if you need to, and it remains
flexible to absorb shocks and allows things to bend rather than snap. Epoxy
is pretty much permanent.



Gareth.

On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 04:00:40 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Hi, I had a loose power socket and superglued it and that lasted just
fine for a few months. Then it went out beyond
an ability to glue it again, but still have a occasional power
connection when moving it.

Superglue doesn't work with the plastic sockets. Use 24 hr epoxy (not
the 15 minute crap), and let it harden for a while. Obviously, keep
it away from the metal contacts.

I pulled out the motherboard and the solder
on the bottom side of the board where the socket connects, the solder
was burnt away and brittle.

Ok, it's arcing. What happened is that the wiggling of the socket
created an annular ring around the solder pad. In some positions,
there was enough of a gap, and enough current, to create a miniature
arc welder. That sometimes destroys the board. See my photos at:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/HP-laptop/slides/Fried_power_plug.html
Sorry about the lousy focus job.

The problem is that the carbonized PCB material mixes with the solder
when you try to resolder the connection. All you get is a mess. Take
a sharp pin, awl, wire brush, screwdriver, scraper, whatever, and get
as much of the carbon off as possible. Then solder.

I'm not much of a solderer, just have a cheap soldering iron with a
large tip.

You need an expensive iron with a small tip. Large tips are fine, but
you have to work fast or you'll torch the connection. There are
plenty of cheap, thermostatically controlled irons, with transmormers
in the stand, thermistors in the iron, replaceable tips, and
temperature controls. Consider it a good (lifetime) investment.

Is there a pretty much common method to repair this, I was
thinking of dropping a drop of solder where the solder failed instead
of finding somebody to repair it. Then putting the laptop back
together and see if it works and do a re-superglue of the offending
loose socket.

Glue it while it's open. Better yet, get a replacement connector.
They're all over eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110224164976

Thanks for any tips or suggestions. Tools needed, over my head in my
abilities?

Find someone who can solder to do this. The practice with a decent
soldering iron and some junk electronics. When you figure out which
end of the iron to grab, you're ready to attack the laptop.

Incidentally, I'm impressed that you're able to take it apart. That's
generally not an easy thing to do.

It's a compaq presario 1692

Thanks. You should have mentioned that first.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Take the computer to a service place where they have the proper tools
for soldering and they do this type of work all the time. This will
avoid you from damaging the mother board. If you cause damage, you will
need a new mother board!

--

JANA
_____


wrote in message
...
Hi, I had a loose power socket and superglued it and that lasted just
fine for a few months. Then it went out beyond
an ability to glue it again, but still have a occasional power
connection when moving it. I pulled out the motherboard and the solder
on the bottom side of the board where the socket connects, the solder
was burnt away and brittle.

I'm not much of a solderer, just have a cheap soldering iron with a
large tip. Is there a pretty much common method to repair this, I was
thinking of dropping a drop of solder where the solder failed instead
of finding somebody to repair it. Then putting the laptop back
together and see if it works and do a re-superglue of the offending
loose socket.

Thanks for any tips or suggestions. Tools needed, over my head in my
abilities?

It's a compaq presario 1692

Thanks

On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 16:49:48 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

(snip)

Glue it while it's open.

(snip rest)

The most important bit of all. The solder joint should NOT be expected to
provide the mechanical support for the receptacle - only the electrical bond.
If you glue it first (with a decent material, NOT a brittle "superglue" type)
and THEN repair the solder work, you'll have a much greater chance of a long
term result. Some glues applied after soldering will actually pre-stress the
solder bonds and predispose the assembly to further failure.

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 12:53:59 +0800, rebel wrote:

On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 16:49:48 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

(snip)

Glue it while it's open.

(snip rest)

The most important bit of all. The solder joint should NOT be expected to
provide the mechanical support for the receptacle - only the electrical bond.

Baloney. Every single laptop I've repaired or inspected, has the
solder leads and circuit board provide the only means of support. A
few provide added protection in the form of a metal cover shield, such
as the HP laptop in the photo:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/HP-laptop/slides/Fried_power_plug.html
I just ordered some connectors for a Compaq 1692 that also has a metal
shield. The shield helps, but is not that common.

The most disgusting was some ancient laptop, that used a surface mount
power connector with no holes through the board. The other connectors
were attached the same way. They died in a few weeks, or when the
owner tweaked the cords, whichever came first.

Incidentally, I have a pile of 12 laptops waiting for me to spend some
time repairing them. Most have broken power connectors. Some have
butchered power connectors where the owner attempted to repair the
connector. It's a very common problem that would easily be addressed
by a magnetic latch connector (as used by Apple) or mitigated by a
right angle power connector, which would rotate rather than peel the
connector off the board.

If you glue it first (with a decent material, NOT a brittle "superglue" type)
and THEN repair the solder work, you'll have a much greater chance of a long
term result.

What would you recommend instead? I use 24 hour epoxy.

Some glues applied after soldering will actually pre-stress the
solder bonds and predispose the assembly to further failure.

Huh? Most glues shrink, not expand when drying. What type of glue
are you thinking of? The Duco and plastic model cement glues won't
stick to the plastic. The Urethanes work as good as epoxy, but is not
very good at gap filling or for non-parallel surfaces.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 23:29:29 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 12:53:59 +0800, rebel wrote:

On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 16:49:48 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

(snip)

Glue it while it's open.

(snip rest)

The most important bit of all. The solder joint should NOT be expected to
provide the mechanical support for the receptacle - only the electrical bond.

Baloney. Every single laptop I've repaired or inspected, has the
solder leads and circuit board provide the only means of support. A
few provide added protection in the form of a metal cover shield, such
as the HP laptop in the photo:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/HP-laptop/slides/Fried_power_plug.html
I just ordered some connectors for a Compaq 1692 that also has a metal
shield. The shield helps, but is not that common.

The most disgusting was some ancient laptop, that used a surface mount
power connector with no holes through the board. The other connectors
were attached the same way. They died in a few weeks, or when the
owner tweaked the cords, whichever came first.

I think we're on the same side, but seeing things from a differnt point of view.

Certainly the manufacturers rely only on the solder to provide the mechanical
support - that is exactly why these failures are endemic.

Incidentally, I have a pile of 12 laptops waiting for me to spend some
time repairing them. Most have broken power connectors. Some have
butchered power connectors where the owner attempted to repair the
connector. It's a very common problem that would easily be addressed
by a magnetic latch connector (as used by Apple) or mitigated by a
right angle power connector, which would rotate rather than peel the
connector off the board.

One of my Acer laptops has a right-angle connector and has surviced for about
ten years of in-vehicle use.

If you glue it first (with a decent material, NOT a brittle "superglue" type)
and THEN repair the solder work, you'll have a much greater chance of a long
term result.

What would you recommend instead? I use 24 hour epoxy.

Yep, that's my preference if people have the patience.

Some glues applied after soldering will actually pre-stress the
solder bonds and predispose the assembly to further failure.

Huh? Most glues shrink, not expand when drying. What type of glue
are you thinking of? The Duco and plastic model cement glues won't
stick to the plastic. The Urethanes work as good as epoxy, but is not
very good at gap filling or for non-parallel surfaces.

It doesn't matter whether they shrink/expand/whatever, they invariably seem to
cause some attempt at movement - and that applies mechanical stress to the
solder bond. If you glue first, then solder, that issue is avoided.

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 04:00:40 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Hi, I had a loose power socket and superglued it and that lasted just
fine for a few months. Then it went out beyond
an ability to glue it again, but still have a occasional power
connection when moving it.

Superglue doesn't work with the plastic sockets. Use 24 hr epoxy (not
the 15 minute crap), and let it harden for a while. Obviously, keep
it away from the metal contacts.

I pulled out the motherboard and the solder
on the bottom side of the board where the socket connects, the solder
was burnt away and brittle.

Ok, it's arcing. What happened is that the wiggling of the socket
created an annular ring around the solder pad. In some positions,
there was enough of a gap, and enough current, to create a miniature
arc welder. That sometimes destroys the board. See my photos at:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/HP-laptop/slides/Fried_power_plug.html
Sorry about the lousy focus job.

Yea I took motherboard pictures and needed a small magnifying glass to
get a remotely good picture.

Mine looks OK.

The problem is that the carbonized PCB material mixes with the solder
when you try to resolder the connection. All you get is a mess. Take
a sharp pin, awl, wire brush, screwdriver, scraper, whatever, and get
as much of the carbon off as possible. Then solder.

It still has solid solder, do I need to remove that, if yes any way of
faking it.

I'm not much of a solderer, just have a cheap soldering iron with a
large tip.

You need an expensive iron with a small tip.

Yea I found one. Well, not sure what it costs though. I've read about
how they heat up.

Large tips are fine, but
you have to work fast or you'll torch the connection. There are
plenty of cheap, thermostatically controlled irons, with transmormers
in the stand, thermistors in the iron, replaceable tips, and
temperature controls. Consider it a good (lifetime) investment.

Yea if I might just do that.

Is there a pretty much common method to repair this, I was
thinking of dropping a drop of solder where the solder failed instead
of finding somebody to repair it. Then putting the laptop back
together and see if it works and do a re-superglue of the offending
loose socket.

Glue it while it's open. Better yet, get a replacement connector.
They're all over eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110224164976

I might consider that in the future, the current one looks like its
still viable.

As far as gluing, I got my question answered of doing it before
soldering, as the connection might break and it's pretty loose to
begin with.

Thanks for any tips or suggestions. Tools needed, over my head in my
abilities?

Find someone who can solder to do this.

I watched an amateur do this a few or more times.

The practice with a decent
soldering iron and some junk electronics. When you figure out which
end of the iron to grab, you're ready to attack the laptop.

I think I got past the wrong end part, more than a few times,

I might have some boards of this and that under the house crawlspace.

Incidentally, I'm impressed that you're able to take it apart. That's
generally not an easy thing to do.

Thanks, I kinda looked at how it was put together, then thought how to
do it in reverse. I just took my time, do a post or two on the usenet,
get back to it. I took pictures through the process though.

It's a compaq presario 1692

Thanks. You should have mentioned that first.

I have looked for a motherboard for it, but no luck. I still might try
this.
--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

bz wrote:
wrote in news:0f0e8190-5002-4df7-a522-d77de45c1a20
@v1g2000pra.googlegroups.com:

On Jun 14, 3:34�am, bz wrote:
snip

Buy a soldering iron that is the right size at radio-shack.
Could be cheap, provided you practice, a lot, soldering on old PCB
boards.

Fix your board yourself.

Use GOOD solder 63/37 NOT 60/40.

60/40 is _bad_ solder ?

Yes. It passes through the 'plastic' stage during cooling. Do NOT jiggle or
you get a cold solder joint.
It melts at a higher temperature. Harder to get melted and get good solder
flow.

63/37 is _that_ much better?

Yes. Get a eutectic solder. [melts at the minimum temp for an alloy of
those metals].

Or did you mean
40/60 which _is_ bad solder ?

50/50 is worse than 60/40 and 40/60 is even worse.
[bad and good in relation to electronics usage. If you are a plumber, 50/50
might be better for your work.]

I have 60/40, will that work OK though? This computer is a 733Mhz
processor so it's not modern.

If you're patient with eBay, you can get a Metcal in parts for $100.
Bought 6 so far for at work. After using a Metcal you won't want to
use a Radio Shack soldering tusk.

A GOOD, temperature controlled, soldering iron is, OF COURSE, better than a
cheap iron.




--
bz 73 de N5BZ k

Thanks for the replies to this post.

It still has solder there, do I need to remove it?

I'll post a few semi-viewable pictures.

wrote:
bz wrote:
wrote in news:0f0e8190-5002-4df7-a522-d77de45c1a20
@v1g2000pra.googlegroups.com:

On Jun 14, 3:34�am, bz wrote:
snip

Buy a soldering iron that is the right size at radio-shack.
Could be cheap, provided you practice, a lot, soldering on old PCB
boards.

Fix your board yourself.

Use GOOD solder 63/37 NOT 60/40.

60/40 is _bad_ solder ?

Yes. It passes through the 'plastic' stage during cooling. Do NOT jiggle or
you get a cold solder joint.
It melts at a higher temperature. Harder to get melted and get good solder
flow.

63/37 is _that_ much better?

Yes. Get a eutectic solder. [melts at the minimum temp for an alloy of
those metals].

Or did you mean
40/60 which _is_ bad solder ?

50/50 is worse than 60/40 and 40/60 is even worse.
[bad and good in relation to electronics usage. If you are a plumber, 50/50
might be better for your work.]

I have 60/40, will that work OK though? This computer is a 733Mhz
processor so it's not modern.

If you're patient with eBay, you can get a Metcal in parts for $100.
Bought 6 so far for at work. After using a Metcal you won't want to
use a Radio Shack soldering tusk.

A GOOD, temperature controlled, soldering iron is, OF COURSE, better than a
cheap iron.




--
bz 73 de N5BZ k

Thanks for the replies to this post.

It still has solder there, do I need to remove it?

I'll post a few semi-viewable pictures.

Hi, here they are

It's right under L50, note the existing solder, I will try to clean it
off. What is it called, from the solder in the first picture left of
the L59, trace? Anyway under magnification that looks good. So would
this be the only place that needs the solder?

http://315chan.org/n3rd/src/121358542179.jpg
http://315chan.org/n3rd/src/121358475480.jpg
http://315chan.org/n3rd/src/121358489650.jpg

Thanks for comments, suggestions.

On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 08:16:45 +0800, rebel wrote:

I think we're on the same side, but seeing things from a differnt point of view.

Maybe. Certainly additional reinforcement would be helpful. But that
will just create the situation I saw on much older (286/386/486)
generation laptops with the big parallel port connector. The plug and
cable was so stiff and the connector was certainly strong with all 25
pins soldered into the board. However, that didn't stop users from
literally cracking the PCB with pressure applied to the connector. It
wasn't until manufactories started reinforcing the DB-25S connector
with a metal backplate, that the boards stopped cracking.

Certainly the manufacturers rely only on the solder to provide the mechanical
support - that is exactly why these failures are endemic.

Again, I beg to differ. When I do an autopsy on a broken power jack,
it's the plastic shell that usually fails, not the solder connections.
I commonly see them with the metal contacts and leads intact, but the
plastic shell totally destroyed. If the solder was weak, it would
pull the contacts out of the board.

Well, now that you mention it, I have seen one Acer Aspire 3000 laptop
where the connector lifted out of the board. However, it did that
intact because Acer forgot to solder the connector. There was no
solder on the pads.

One of my Acer laptops has a right-angle connector and has surviced for about
ten years of in-vehicle use.

I've seen adapters for right angle power connectors, USB connectors,
and possibly some others. It's a great compromise. I just replace
the power plug with a right angle equivalent, which is cheaper and
easier (for me).

The right answer is Magsafe connectors:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MagSafe

What would you recommend instead? I use 24 hour epoxy.

Yep, that's my preference if people have the patience.

I typically have a 3-4 day backlog. Tearing the laptop apart and
putting it back together usually takes at least 1-2 days. Somehow, it
always takes me twice as long to put it back together as it does to
take it apart. Overnight drying is mandatory. By the time the
customer gets it, the epoxy is dry. The trick is in the mixing. It
has to be exactly 50-50 or it will either not harden or fall apart.

It doesn't matter whether they shrink/expand/whatever, they invariably seem to
cause some attempt at movement - and that applies mechanical stress to the
solder bond. If you glue first, then solder, that issue is avoided.

I have never seen that problem. Few connectors are flat on the PCB.
There are usually tiny bumps or spacers under the connector to allow
for flux removal. The connectors won't go through conventional hot
freon or IR soldering processes, and have to be hand soldered. The
bumps allow for some misalignment and movement. It might be a problem
with some connectors that I've never seen, but for the typical laptop
power connector, it doesn't matter. However, I will admit that I
always reflow the solder connection after gluing, mostly to make
absolutely sure I have a decent connection. That will take care of
any real or theoretical tensioning.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 19:21:40 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

It still has solid solder, do I need to remove that, if yes any way of
faking it.

No. AFTER gluing the connector, and waiting for the epoxy to harden,
hit all the solder pads with some clean rosin core solder until it
reflows and is shiny. If inexperienced, practice with some eWaste.

As far as gluing, I got my question answered of doing it before
soldering, as the connection might break and it's pretty loose to
begin with.

Yep.

The practice with a decent
soldering iron and some junk electronics. When you figure out which
end of the iron to grab, you're ready to attack the laptop.

I think I got past the wrong end part, more than a few times,

I haven't. I was holding the soldering iron in my mouth and managed
to burn a big hole in my jacket.

I might have some boards of this and that under the house crawlspace.

Check the local eWaste depository.

Incidentally, I'm impressed that you're able to take it apart. That's
generally not an easy thing to do.

Thanks, I kinda looked at how it was put together, then thought how to
do it in reverse. I just took my time, do a post or two on the usenet,
get back to it. I took pictures through the process though.

Hint: The hard part is remembering where the screws go. That's why I
take photographs with a digital camera. As soon as I get the covers
off, I print the photos on my laser printer. I then circle the screws
as I remove them. On Compaq hardware, which tends to use many
different sizes and lengths, I place a 2nd copy of the print on a
piece of styrofoam. I then shove the screws through the print, and
into the styrofoam. No more guessing which screw goes where.

I have looked for a motherboard for it, but no luck. I still might try
this.

If it's only the connector, you're on the right track. No need to
replace the board. However, if you have the time, I would replace the
connector instead of gluing it. I only glue connectors on worthless
laptops, or where the customer is in a big rush and can't wait a few
days for the connector to arrive.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 20:33:38 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 08:16:45 +0800, rebel wrote:

I think we're on the same side, but seeing things from a differnt point of view.

Maybe. Certainly additional reinforcement would be helpful. But that
will just create the situation I saw on much older (286/386/486)
generation laptops with the big parallel port connector. The plug and
cable was so stiff and the connector was certainly strong with all 25
pins soldered into the board. However, that didn't stop users from
literally cracking the PCB with pressure applied to the connector. It
wasn't until manufactories started reinforcing the DB-25S connector
with a metal backplate, that the boards stopped cracking.

A DB25 is mechanically a different story entirely, and I don't believe you can
apply the same results/observations to a two/three-pin power receptacle.


Certainly the manufacturers rely only on the solder to provide the mechanical
support - that is exactly why these failures are endemic.

Again, I beg to differ. When I do an autopsy on a broken power jack,
it's the plastic shell that usually fails, not the solder connections.
I commonly see them with the metal contacts and leads intact, but the
plastic shell totally destroyed. If the solder was weak, it would
pull the contacts out of the board.

We clearly have very different experiences then. Almost without exception, the
power inlets I have had occasion to repair have had the hardware intact and the
solder bonds separated, often with evidence of significant arcing.

Well, now that you mention it, I have seen one Acer Aspire 3000 laptop
where the connector lifted out of the board. However, it did that
intact because Acer forgot to solder the connector. There was no
solder on the pads.

I've seen some evidence of very_poor attempts at soldering, but none to date of
no solder.

One of my Acer laptops has a right-angle connector and has surviced for about
ten years of in-vehicle use.

I've seen adapters for right angle power connectors, USB connectors,
and possibly some others. It's a great compromise. I just replace
the power plug with a right angle equivalent, which is cheaper and
easier (for me).

The right answer is Magsafe connectors:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MagSafe

What would you recommend instead? I use 24 hour epoxy.

Yep, that's my preference if people have the patience.

I typically have a 3-4 day backlog. Tearing the laptop apart and
putting it back together usually takes at least 1-2 days. Somehow, it
always takes me twice as long to put it back together as it does to
take it apart.

Crikey, that's a lot of time to spend on each.

Overnight drying is mandatory. By the time the
customer gets it, the epoxy is dry. The trick is in the mixing. It
has to be exactly 50-50 or it will either not harden or fall apart.

Yep, been using the stuff since the '60s.

It doesn't matter whether they shrink/expand/whatever, they invariably seem to
cause some attempt at movement - and that applies mechanical stress to the
solder bond. If you glue first, then solder, that issue is avoided.

I have never seen that problem. Few connectors are flat on the PCB.
There are usually tiny bumps or spacers under the connector to allow
for flux removal. The connectors won't go through conventional hot
freon or IR soldering processes, and have to be hand soldered. The
bumps allow for some misalignment and movement. It might be a problem
with some connectors that I've never seen, but for the typical laptop
power connector, it doesn't matter. However, I will admit that I
always reflow the solder connection after gluing, mostly to make
absolutely sure I have a decent connection. That will take care of
any real or theoretical tensioning.

wrote in
:



bz wrote:
wrote in news:0f0e8190-5002-4df7-a522-d77de45c1a20
@v1g2000pra.googlegroups.com:

On Jun 14, 3:34�am, bz wrote:
snip

Buy a soldering iron that is the right size at radio-shack.
Could be cheap, provided you practice, a lot, soldering on old PCB
boards.

Fix your board yourself.

Use GOOD solder 63/37 NOT 60/40.

60/40 is _bad_ solder ?

Yes. It passes through the 'plastic' stage during cooling. Do NOT
jiggle o
r
you get a cold solder joint.
It melts at a higher temperature. Harder to get melted and get good
solder

flow.

63/37 is _that_ much better?

Yes. Get a eutectic solder. [melts at the minimum temp for an alloy of
those metals].

Or did you mean
40/60 which _is_ bad solder ?

50/50 is worse than 60/40 and 40/60 is even worse.
[bad and good in relation to electronics usage. If you are a plumber,
50/5
0
might be better for your work.]

I have 60/40, will that work OK though? This computer is a 733Mhz
processor so it's not modern.

The age of the processor doesn't matter. What does matter is the fact that
it is much easier to make a good solder joint if you use good solder and
much easier to make a bad one if you use bad solder.


If you're patient with eBay, you can get a Metcal in parts for $100.
Bought 6 so far for at work. After using a Metcal you won't want to
use a Radio Shack soldering tusk.

A GOOD, temperature controlled, soldering iron is, OF COURSE, better
than
a
cheap iron.




--
bz 73 de N5BZ k

Thanks for the replies to this post.

It still has solder there, do I need to remove it?

No, probably not. But if there is too much solder after you get done, you
might want to remove some.

You can use solder braid or a solder sucker to remove excess solder.
Radioshack has an inexpensive de-soldering iron that works very well for
me for removing most parts undamaged.



I'll post a few semi-viewable pictures.





--
bz 73 de N5BZ k

please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an
infinite set.

remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap

wrote in news:33924271-df8c-4227-b30c-a2e8f9528fdc@
56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com:

Hi, here they are

It's right under L50, note the existing solder, I will try to clean it
off. What is it called, from the solder in the first picture left of
the L59, trace? Anyway under magnification that looks good. So would
this be the only place that needs the solder?

I don't know what you have there to the left of L50. It could be corrosion
or glue or something spilled on the board.
There are at least two tabs on that power jack that need to be resoldered.
One near the L50 and the other at the right end of the large silver area.

The third tab, near the edge of the board, may also need to be resoldered.

I would remove the solder on that tab and remove the connector from the
board, clean around each of the holes in the board and clean each solder
tab, replace the connector and solder.

But it would be a very good idea for you to practice on some old circuit
boards first.
You should be able to find an old computer or tv or ... electronic device
sitting by the trash cans.
Or go by a repair shop and ask if they have some trash boards that they
will give you so you can practice soldering.

You might even get them to give you some lessons or at least let you watch.





http://315chan.org/n3rd/src/121358542179.jpg
http://315chan.org/n3rd/src/121358475480.jpg
http://315chan.org/n3rd/src/121358489650.jpg

Thanks for comments, suggestions.




-- lsu
bz

please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an
infinite set.

bz wrote:

I have 60/40, will that work OK though? This computer is a 733Mhz
processor so it's not modern.

The age of the processor doesn't matter. What does matter is the fact that
it is much easier to make a good solder joint if you use good solder and
much easier to make a bad one if you use bad solder.

Apparently all we can purchase now is bad solder (the EU banned lead
in solder in 2006).

Talk about timing, this /. article came out yesterday

http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/06/15/1732216
"Lead is added to solder as it melts at low temperature, but also, it
prevents the solder from growing 'whiskers' — crystalline limbs of
metal. The effect of whiskers on soldered equipment would include
random short-circuits and strange RF-effects. Whiskers can grow fairly
quickly and become quite long."

I've got a bunch of old solder, I'm going to take much better care of
it now. no more using it to balance my 2 meter gliders

--

Police: Officer kills man who beat child to death
(I'm sure the officer could use all the public support he could get)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25179632/

wrote in
:

bz wrote:

I have 60/40, will that work OK though? This computer is a 733Mhz
processor so it's not modern.

The age of the processor doesn't matter. What does matter is the fact
that it is much easier to make a good solder joint if you use good
solder and much easier to make a bad one if you use bad solder.

Apparently all we can purchase now is bad solder (the EU banned lead
in solder in 2006).

Talk about timing, this /. article came out yesterday

http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/06/15/1732216
"Lead is added to solder as it melts at low temperature, but also, it
prevents the solder from growing 'whiskers' — crystalline limbs of
metal. The effect of whiskers on soldered equipment would include
random short-circuits and strange RF-effects. Whiskers can grow fairly
quickly and become quite long."

I've got a bunch of old solder, I'm going to take much better care of
it now. no more using it to balance my 2 meter gliders

I understand that for certain critical applications, lead bearing solder
is still available and legal to use. [caveat: I am not in the EU, not a
lawyer, not an expert on EU law, etc., etc., etc.]






--
bz 73 de N5BZ k

please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an
infinite set.

remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap

"bz" wrote in message
98.139...
wrote in
:

bz wrote:

I have 60/40, will that work OK though? This computer is a 733Mhz
processor so it's not modern.

The age of the processor doesn't matter. What does matter is the fact
that it is much easier to make a good solder joint if you use good
solder and much easier to make a bad one if you use bad solder.

Apparently all we can purchase now is bad solder (the EU banned lead
in solder in 2006).

Talk about timing, this /. article came out yesterday

http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/06/15/1732216
"Lead is added to solder as it melts at low temperature, but also, it
prevents the solder from growing 'whiskers' - crystalline limbs of
metal. The effect of whiskers on soldered equipment would include
random short-circuits and strange RF-effects. Whiskers can grow fairly
quickly and become quite long."

I've got a bunch of old solder, I'm going to take much better care of
it now. no more using it to balance my 2 meter gliders

I understand that for certain critical applications, lead bearing solder
is still available and legal to use. [caveat: I am not in the EU, not a
lawyer, not an expert on EU law, etc., etc., etc.]




One obvious exception being the military who really can't afford to have
crap solder in their systems.


Gareth.

bz wrote:
wrote in
:

bz wrote:

I have 60/40, will that work OK though? This computer is a 733Mhz
processor so it's not modern.
The age of the processor doesn't matter. What does matter is the fact
that it is much easier to make a good solder joint if you use good
solder and much easier to make a bad one if you use bad solder.
Apparently all we can purchase now is bad solder (the EU banned lead
in solder in 2006).

Talk about timing, this /. article came out yesterday

http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/06/15/1732216
"Lead is added to solder as it melts at low temperature, but also, it
prevents the solder from growing 'whiskers' — crystalline limbs of
metal. The effect of whiskers on soldered equipment would include
random short-circuits and strange RF-effects. Whiskers can grow fairly
quickly and become quite long."

I've got a bunch of old solder, I'm going to take much better care of
it now. no more using it to balance my 2 meter gliders

I understand that for certain critical applications, lead bearing solder
is still available and legal to use. [caveat: I am not in the EU, not a
lawyer, not an expert on EU law, etc., etc., etc.]


You can still buy lead based solder from most if not all of the
electronics wholesalers here in the UK.

Ron(UK)

On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 04:00:40 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Hi, I had a loose power socket and superglued it and that lasted just
fine for a few months. Then it went out beyond
an ability to glue it again, but still have a occasional power
connection when moving it. I pulled out the motherboard and the solder
on the bottom side of the board where the socket connects, the solder
was burnt away and brittle.

I'm not much of a solderer, just have a cheap soldering iron with a
large tip. Is there a pretty much common method to repair this, I was
thinking of dropping a drop of solder where the solder failed instead
of finding somebody to repair it. Then putting the laptop back
together and see if it works and do a re-superglue of the offending
loose socket.

Thanks for any tips or suggestions. Tools needed, over my head in my
abilities?

It's a compaq presario 1692

Thanks
The advice you have received on practicing soldering is important.
However, if the socket has been damaged you are fighting a loosing
battle. Do a search on eBay. I had a similar problem with a Dell
notebook, and was able to find a replacement socket for under $10.00
delivered. It was well worth the investment.

PlainBill

PlainBill wrote:

The advice you have received on practicing soldering is important.
However, if the socket has been damaged you are fighting a loosing
battle. Do a search on eBay. I had a similar problem with a Dell
notebook, and was able to find a replacement socket for under $10.00
delivered. It was well worth the investment.

just unsolder one from an old mother board, it's what I had to do
once.
--

Fail
http://failblog.org/2008/06/10/backwards-b-fail/