I have a broken pool motor [magnetek y56y] which will cost a bundle to
fix
or repair.
While doing a search on the web, I found the same model (really cheap)
but
wired for 280V, instead of the 230 V load that my wiring is supplies.
Now, I was thinking of buying the cheap 280V model and installing it
instead. Aside from rotating at a different speed and
maybe some power inefficiencies, are there any other drawbacks of
using the 280V model
instead?

"Deodiaus" wrote in message
...
I have a broken pool motor [magnetek y56y] which will cost a bundle to
fix
or repair.
While doing a search on the web, I found the same model (really cheap)
but
wired for 280V, instead of the 230 V load that my wiring is supplies.
Now, I was thinking of buying the cheap 280V model and installing it
instead. Aside from rotating at a different speed and
maybe some power inefficiencies, are there any other drawbacks of
using the 280V model
instead?

If it's the same model motor, you might be able to rewire it for your 230V
supply. Look at the nameplate or inside the wiring chamber to see if there is a
wiring diagram that details wiring connections for different voltages.
Barring that, you might search the Mfr's website (if they are still in business)
or Google for the make and model of your motor and see if there is any data on
it that details the wiring instructions.

--
Dave M
MasonDG44 at comcast dot net (Just substitute the appropriate characters in the
address)

Some people are like Slinkies. Not really good for anything, but they bring a
smile to your face when pushed down the stairs.

On Apr 26, 3:11*pm, Deodiaus wrote:
I have a broken pool motor [magnetek y56y] which will cost a bundle to
fix
or repair.
While doing a search on the web, I found the same model (really cheap)
but
wired for 280V, instead of the 230 V load that my wiring is supplies.
Now, I was thinking of buying the cheap 280V model and installing it
instead. *Aside from rotating at a different speed and
maybe some power inefficiencies, are there any other drawbacks of
using the 280V model
instead?

BUY IT! You'll thank yourself 10 years from now! The speed diffrence
wil be neglegable, the duty-cycle will be such that the motor will
enjoy a much longer life... if anything you could step-up RPM by
adding pulleys and a drive-belt rather than direct-drive coupled as it
is now... The pulley/belts would also minimize start-shock to the pump
by softening the inital roll in of the motor...

Deodiaus wrote:

I have a broken pool motor [magnetek y56y] which will cost a bundle to
fix
or repair.
While doing a search on the web, I found the same model (really cheap)
but
wired for 280V, instead of the 230 V load that my wiring is supplies.
Now, I was thinking of buying the cheap 280V model and installing it
instead. Aside from rotating at a different speed and
maybe some power inefficiencies, are there any other drawbacks of
using the 280V model
instead?

You mean the 120/208 VAC motor that was for sale on Ebay?


--
http://improve-usenet.org/index.html


Use any search engine other than Google till they stop polluting USENET
with porn and junk commercial SPAM

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm

Deodiaus wrote:

I have a broken pool motor [magnetek y56y] which will cost a bundle to
fix
or repair.
While doing a search on the web, I found the same model (really cheap)
but
wired for 280V, instead of the 230 V load that my wiring is supplies.
Now, I was thinking of buying the cheap 280V model and installing it
instead. Aside from rotating at a different speed and
maybe some power inefficiencies, are there any other drawbacks of
using the 280V model
instead?
are you sure it isn't 208 ?

--
http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

On Apr 26, 6:14*pm, Jamie
t wrote:
Deodiaus wrote:
I have a broken pool motor [magnetek y56y] which will cost a bundle to
fix
or repair.
While doing a search on the web, I found the same model (really cheap)
but
wired for 280V, instead of the 230 V load that my wiring is supplies.
Now, I was thinking of buying the cheap 280V model and installing it
instead. *Aside from rotating at a different speed and
maybe some power inefficiencies, are there any other drawbacks of
using the 280V model
instead?

* are you sure it isn't 208 ?

--http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

I'd be suspicious that the 280V was a misreading somehow of 230V.

hr(bob) wrote:

On Apr 26, 6:14 pm, Jamie
t wrote:

Deodiaus wrote:

I have a broken pool motor [magnetek y56y] which will cost a bundle to
fix
or repair.
While doing a search on the web, I found the same model (really cheap)
but
wired for 280V, instead of the 230 V load that my wiring is supplies.
Now, I was thinking of buying the cheap 280V model and installing it
instead. Aside from rotating at a different speed and
maybe some power inefficiencies, are there any other drawbacks of
using the 280V model
instead?

are you sure it isn't 208 ?

--http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"


I'd be suspicious that the 280V was a misreading somehow of 230V.
that sounds more plausible.

--
http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

In Jamie t writes:

are you sure it isn't 208 ?

--http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"


I'd be suspicious that the 280V was a misreading somehow of 230V.
that sounds more plausible.

Or... of 208V. If you have a "three phase" circuit
coming into a building, and you run two "hot" wires
to your appliance (or motor), the effective voltage
you're getting is 208V.

There's enough overlap so that a standard 240V appliance
such as, say, a larger air conditioner, will work more
or less ok on 208V. And vice versa.

But there is most assuredely a difference in the
two circuits, so for optimal results, you'll want
an appliance (or motor) designed for the specific
wiring in your facility.

--
__________________________________________________ ___
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key

[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

Jamie wrote:
hr(bob) wrote:

On Apr 26, 6:14 pm, Jamie
t wrote:

Deodiaus wrote:

I have a broken pool motor [magnetek y56y] which will cost a bundle to
fix
or repair.
While doing a search on the web, I found the same model (really cheap)
but
wired for 280V, instead of the 230 V load that my wiring is supplies.
Now, I was thinking of buying the cheap 280V model and installing it
instead. Aside from rotating at a different speed and
maybe some power inefficiencies, are there any other drawbacks of
using the 280V model
instead?

are you sure it isn't 208 ?

--http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"


I'd be suspicious that the 280V was a misreading somehow of 230V.
that sounds more plausible.

I'm a little confused about a 230 volt circuit. In what part of the
world does the utility supply 230v?

jak

----------------------------
"jakdedert" wrote in message
. ..
Jamie wrote:
hr(bob) wrote:

On Apr 26, 6:14 pm, Jamie
t wrote:

Deodiaus wrote:

I have a broken pool motor [magnetek y56y] which will cost a bundle to
fix
or repair.
While doing a search on the web, I found the same model (really cheap)
but
wired for 280V, instead of the 230 V load that my wiring is supplies.
Now, I was thinking of buying the cheap 280V model and installing it
instead. Aside from rotating at a different speed and
maybe some power inefficiencies, are there any other drawbacks of
using the 280V model
instead?

are you sure it isn't 208 ?

--http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"


I'd be suspicious that the 280V was a misreading somehow of 230V.
that sounds more plausible.

I'm a little confused about a 230 volt circuit. In what part of the world
does the utility supply 230v?

jak
-----
Depending on the age of the motor it could be rated 230V which now has crept
up to 240V just as once we had 110V, then 115V then 120V as nominal
voltages -(except for the radio people who settled on 117V and assumed that
that was what you got.).

--

Don Kelly
remove the X to answer

Don Kelly wrote:
----------------------------
"jakdedert" wrote in message
. ..
Jamie wrote:
hr(bob) wrote:

On Apr 26, 6:14 pm, Jamie
t wrote:

Deodiaus wrote:

I have a broken pool motor [magnetek y56y] which will cost a bundle to
fix
or repair.
While doing a search on the web, I found the same model (really cheap)
but
wired for 280V, instead of the 230 V load that my wiring is supplies.
Now, I was thinking of buying the cheap 280V model and installing it
instead. Aside from rotating at a different speed and
maybe some power inefficiencies, are there any other drawbacks of
using the 280V model
instead?
are you sure it isn't 208 ?

--http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

I'd be suspicious that the 280V was a misreading somehow of 230V.
that sounds more plausible.

I'm a little confused about a 230 volt circuit. In what part of the world
does the utility supply 230v?

jak
-----
Depending on the age of the motor it could be rated 230V which now has crept
up to 240V just as once we had 110V, then 115V then 120V as nominal
voltages -(except for the radio people who settled on 117V and assumed that
that was what you got.).

Here in New Zealand, the mains voltage is 230 volts, likewise Australia.

"jakdedert" wrote in message
. ..
Jamie wrote:
hr(bob) wrote:

On Apr 26, 6:14 pm, Jamie
t wrote:

Deodiaus wrote:

I have a broken pool motor [magnetek y56y] which will cost a bundle to
fix
or repair.
While doing a search on the web, I found the same model (really cheap)
but
wired for 280V, instead of the 230 V load that my wiring is supplies.
Now, I was thinking of buying the cheap 280V model and installing it
instead. Aside from rotating at a different speed and
maybe some power inefficiencies, are there any other drawbacks of
using the 280V model
instead?

are you sure it isn't 208 ?

--http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"


I'd be suspicious that the 280V was a misreading somehow of 230V.
that sounds more plausible.

I'm a little confused about a 230 volt circuit. In what part of the world
does the utility supply 230v?

jak

Most except the USA and Canada and a few others.

John G.

In alt.engineering.electrical jakdedert wrote:

| I'm a little confused about a 230 volt circuit. In what part of the
| world does the utility supply 230v?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_power_systems

There are two different flavors of 220/230/240 volts. Some places have a
simple system with one wire hot and one wire grounded. Other places have
a split system where the voltage is split in half to get 110/115/120 volts
relative to ground, by adding a additional "middle" conductor that is the
grounded one.

--
|WARNING: Due to extreme spam, I no longer see any articles originating from |
| Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers |
| you will need to find a different place to post on Usenet. |
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) |

"DaveM" wrote in message
. ..
"Deodiaus" wrote in message
...
I have a broken pool motor [magnetek y56y] which will cost a bundle to
fix
or repair.
While doing a search on the web, I found the same model (really cheap)
but
wired for 280V, instead of the 230 V load that my wiring is supplies.
Now, I was thinking of buying the cheap 280V model and installing it
instead. Aside from rotating at a different speed and
maybe some power inefficiencies, are there any other drawbacks of
using the 280V model
instead?

If it's the same model motor, you might be able to rewire it for your 230V
supply. Look at the nameplate or inside the wiring chamber to see if
there is a wiring diagram that details wiring connections for different
voltages.
Barring that, you might search the Mfr's website (if they are still in
business) or Google for the make and model of your motor and see if there
is any data on it that details the wiring instructions.

--
Dave M
MasonDG44 at comcast dot net (Just substitute the appropriate characters
in the address)



What's broken on the original motor? There isn't a whole lot to go wrong
with these, I've yet to run into one I couldn't fix.

"Jamie" t wrote in message
...
hr(bob) wrote:

On Apr 26, 6:14 pm, Jamie
t wrote:

Deodiaus wrote:

I have a broken pool motor [magnetek y56y] which will cost a bundle to
fix
or repair.
While doing a search on the web, I found the same model (really cheap)
but
wired for 280V, instead of the 230 V load that my wiring is supplies.
Now, I was thinking of buying the cheap 280V model and installing it
instead. Aside from rotating at a different speed and
maybe some power inefficiencies, are there any other drawbacks of
using the 280V model
instead?

are you sure it isn't 208 ?

--http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"


I'd be suspicious that the 280V was a misreading somehow of 230V.
that sounds more plausible.




Misreading of 208V undoubtably, 208 is very common in commercial buildings,
that and 277.

"jakdedert" wrote in message
. ..
Jamie wrote:
hr(bob) wrote:

On Apr 26, 6:14 pm, Jamie
t wrote:

Deodiaus wrote:

I have a broken pool motor [magnetek y56y] which will cost a bundle to
fix
or repair.
While doing a search on the web, I found the same model (really cheap)
but
wired for 280V, instead of the 230 V load that my wiring is supplies.
Now, I was thinking of buying the cheap 280V model and installing it
instead. Aside from rotating at a different speed and
maybe some power inefficiencies, are there any other drawbacks of
using the 280V model
instead?

are you sure it isn't 208 ?

--http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"


I'd be suspicious that the 280V was a misreading somehow of 230V.
that sounds more plausible.

I'm a little confused about a 230 volt circuit. In what part of the world
does the utility supply 230v?

jak

In theory, it's 230 on a single phase - neutral circuit here in the UK now,
but in practice, it's actually nearer the previously accepted 240v for the
most part ...

Arfa

jakdedert wrote:

Jamie wrote:
hr(bob) wrote:

On Apr 26, 6:14 pm, Jamie
t wrote:

Deodiaus wrote:

I have a broken pool motor [magnetek y56y] which will cost a
bundle to fix
or repair.
While doing a search on the web, I found the same model (really
cheap) but
wired for 280V, instead of the 230 V load that my wiring is
supplies. Now, I was thinking of buying the cheap 280V model and
installing it
instead. Aside from rotating at a different speed and
maybe some power inefficiencies, are there any other drawbacks of
using the 280V model
instead?

are you sure it isn't 208 ?

--http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"


I'd be suspicious that the 280V was a misreading somehow of 230V.
that sounds more plausible.

I'm a little confused about a 230 volt circuit. In what part of the
world does the utility supply 230v?

jak

UK ! 230/240 V
--
Best Regards:
Baron.

"James Sweet" wrote in message
news:yFWQj.134$_v1.102@trndny06...


"DaveM" wrote in message
. ..
"Deodiaus" wrote in message

...
I have a broken pool motor [magnetek y56y] which will cost a bundle to
fix
or repair.
While doing a search on the web, I found the same model (really cheap)
but
wired for 280V, instead of the 230 V load that my wiring is supplies.
Now, I was thinking of buying the cheap 280V model and installing it
instead. Aside from rotating at a different speed and
maybe some power inefficiencies, are there any other drawbacks of
using the 280V model
instead?

If it's the same model motor, you might be able to rewire it for your
230V
supply. Look at the nameplate or inside the wiring chamber to see if
there is a wiring diagram that details wiring connections for different
voltages.
Barring that, you might search the Mfr's website (if they are still in
business) or Google for the make and model of your motor and see if
there
is any data on it that details the wiring instructions.

--
Dave M
MasonDG44 at comcast dot net (Just substitute the appropriate
characters
in the address)



What's broken on the original motor? There isn't a whole lot to go wrong
with these, I've yet to run into one I couldn't fix.



Me too. Usually it's just been corrosion that can be cleaned off and/or
lack or lubrication.

In article ,
wrote:

There are two different flavors of 220/230/240 volts. Some places have a
simple system with one wire hot and one wire grounded. Other places have
a split system where the voltage is split in half to get 110/115/120 volts
relative to ground, by adding a additional "middle" conductor that is the
grounded one.

Sonny, you need to LEARN the difference between Ground and Neutral......
before you spout any further BS.......

"You" wrote in message
...
In article ,

wrote:

There are two different flavors of 220/230/240 volts. Some places
have a
simple system with one wire hot and one wire grounded. Other
places have
a split system where the voltage is split in half to get
110/115/120 volts
relative to ground, by adding a additional "middle" conductor that
is the
grounded one.

Sonny, you need to LEARN the difference between Ground and
Neutral......
before you spout any further BS.......

What he wrote looks reasonable to me in terms of ground and neutral.
Neutral is the grounded conductor where I live. He does not say to
use a ground as a neutral, if that's what you're getting at. I can
only guess that that may be what you're getting at, you haven't really
said.

[trimmed sci.physics.electromag]

j

In alt.engineering.electrical operator jay wrote:
|
| "You" wrote in message
| ...
| In article ,
|
| wrote:
|
| There are two different flavors of 220/230/240 volts. Some places
| have a
| simple system with one wire hot and one wire grounded. Other
| places have
| a split system where the voltage is split in half to get
| 110/115/120 volts
| relative to ground, by adding a additional "middle" conductor that
| is the
| grounded one.
|
| Sonny, you need to LEARN the difference between Ground and
| Neutral......
| before you spout any further BS.......
|
| What he wrote looks reasonable to me in terms of ground and neutral.
| Neutral is the grounded conductor where I live. He does not say to
| use a ground as a neutral, if that's what you're getting at. I can
| only guess that that may be what you're getting at, you haven't really
| said.

He might be one of those "knows just enough to be really dangerous" people
on the net. I didn't even mention "neutral". My intent was to explain it
in a simpler way for someone to just understand the basic difference. The
term "middle" was to convey a little more information than "neutral" would
have ... for the targeted audience.

There were two reasons Edison used a split system. One was to get the
advantage of less voltage drop and/or longer wires. The other was to run
the light bulbs on a lower voltage, which he knew makes them more reliable.

If he had not been fixated on DC, and had simply accepted AC early on, he
might well have discovered that an even lower voltage made the bulbs even
more reliable, and that a step down transformer at each building would have
done the job reliably, and also allow him to distribute at a higher voltage.
For example, he could have distributed at 600 volts and stepped down to 30
volts inside each building (maybe on a floor by floor basis). OTOH, he could
have run a DC motor-generator to get a lower voltage, too (though it would
have been less reliable than a transformer on AC). Had the light bulb voltage
issue not been a factor, he might well have simply run a straight 2-wire 220
volt system.

--
|WARNING: Due to extreme spam, I no longer see any articles originating from |
| Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers |
| you will need to find a different place to post on Usenet. |
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) |

In alt.engineering.electrical Arfa Daily wrote:
|
| "jakdedert" wrote in message
| . ..
| Jamie wrote:
| hr(bob) wrote:
|
| On Apr 26, 6:14 pm, Jamie
| t wrote:
|
| Deodiaus wrote:
|
| I have a broken pool motor [magnetek y56y] which will cost a bundle to
| fix
| or repair.
| While doing a search on the web, I found the same model (really cheap)
| but
| wired for 280V, instead of the 230 V load that my wiring is supplies.
| Now, I was thinking of buying the cheap 280V model and installing it
| instead. Aside from rotating at a different speed and
| maybe some power inefficiencies, are there any other drawbacks of
| using the 280V model
| instead?
|
| are you sure it isn't 208 ?
|
| --http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"
|
|
| I'd be suspicious that the 280V was a misreading somehow of 230V.
| that sounds more plausible.
|
| I'm a little confused about a 230 volt circuit. In what part of the world
| does the utility supply 230v?
|
| jak
|
| In theory, it's 230 on a single phase - neutral circuit here in the UK now,
| but in practice, it's actually nearer the previously accepted 240v for the
| most part ...

Is the grounded conductor in a 2-wire 230/240 volt system fed to each home
referred to as "neutral" even in UK?

--
|WARNING: Due to extreme spam, I no longer see any articles originating from |
| Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers |
| you will need to find a different place to post on Usenet. |
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) |

In alt.engineering.electrical James Sweet wrote:
|
|
| "Jamie" t wrote in message
| ...
| hr(bob) wrote:
|
| On Apr 26, 6:14 pm, Jamie
| t wrote:
|
|Deodiaus wrote:
|
|I have a broken pool motor [magnetek y56y] which will cost a bundle to
|fix
|or repair.
|While doing a search on the web, I found the same model (really cheap)
|but
|wired for 280V, instead of the 230 V load that my wiring is supplies.
|Now, I was thinking of buying the cheap 280V model and installing it
|instead. Aside from rotating at a different speed and
|maybe some power inefficiencies, are there any other drawbacks of
|using the 280V model
|instead?
|
| are you sure it isn't 208 ?
|
|--http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"
|
|
| I'd be suspicious that the 280V was a misreading somehow of 230V.
| that sounds more plausible.
|
|
|
|
| Misreading of 208V undoubtably, 208 is very common in commercial buildings,
| that and 277.

And where you have 277 you almost certainly have 480. But I suppose it is
possible to have 277 alone (is better to use than 120 for lots of fluorescent
lighting) or maybe even a 554/277 Edison style single phase split system,
where three phase distribution is not available and the higher voltage is
desirable for large areas of commercial lighting.

--
|WARNING: Due to extreme spam, I no longer see any articles originating from |
| Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers |
| you will need to find a different place to post on Usenet. |
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) |

In article ,
wrote:


Is the grounded conductor in a 2-wire 230/240 volt system fed to each home
referred to as "neutral" even in UK?

Yes. - but where is it grounded. Formerly it was grounded only at the
star (centre) point of the local transformer, but more recently is it being
grounded (again) at the domestic intake point.

--
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

In article ,
writes:
In alt.engineering.electrical Arfa Daily wrote:
|
| "jakdedert" wrote in message
| . ..
| I'm a little confused about a 230 volt circuit. In what part of the world
| does the utility supply 230v?
|
| jak
|
| In theory, it's 230 on a single phase - neutral circuit here in the UK now,
| but in practice, it's actually nearer the previously accepted 240v for the
| most part ...

Is the grounded conductor in a 2-wire 230/240 volt system fed to each home
referred to as "neutral" even in UK?

Yes, although we have 3 types of supply arrangement for earthing
used on public supplies. (Note that on 240V, there's often far
more distance between the consumer and the transformer than
you'll find in the US on 120V supplies.)

TN-S:
Neutral is grounded only at the transformer, but a separate
earth conductor is carried in the supply network and brought
into the home from that same grounding point.

TN-C-S (also known as Protective Multiple Earthing):
A single PEN (Protective Earth and Neutral) conductor from
the transformer serves as both neutral and ground connection
in the supply network. The PEN conductor must also be earthed
regularly throughout the supply network, and it requires very
high integrity connections to ensure the risk of it breaking
is very low (this is a legal requirement). Once the supply
reaches the consumer, the PEN conductor is split into separate
neutral and earth conductors in the installation.

TT:
The supplier grounds the neutral as for TN-S, but doesn't
provide the consumer with any earthing connection. The
consumer needs to make their own ground connection for earthing
(and shouldn't cross-connect this to the neutral).
TT is only found on old rural overhead supply networks, and
they are upgraded to TN-C-S when due for refurbishment.

Even if the supplier does provide an earth connection (TN-S
or TN-C-S), the installation can choose to ignore it and be
wired as a TT system. This is sometimes done for submains
to outbuildings and outdoor electrics, even when the main
installation is TN-S or TN-C-S.

These earthing system arrangements are covered in the uk.d-i-y
FAQ: http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/electrical/...al.html#system

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

wrote in message
...
In alt.engineering.electrical Arfa Daily wrote:
|
| "jakdedert" wrote in message
| . ..
| Jamie wrote:
| hr(bob) wrote:
|
| On Apr 26, 6:14 pm, Jamie
| t wrote:
|
| Deodiaus wrote:
|
| I have a broken pool motor [magnetek y56y] which will cost a bundle
to
| fix
| or repair.
| While doing a search on the web, I found the same model (really
cheap)
| but
| wired for 280V, instead of the 230 V load that my wiring is
supplies.
| Now, I was thinking of buying the cheap 280V model and installing
it
| instead. Aside from rotating at a different speed and
| maybe some power inefficiencies, are there any other drawbacks of
| using the 280V model
| instead?
|
| are you sure it isn't 208 ?
|
| --http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"
|
|
| I'd be suspicious that the 280V was a misreading somehow of 230V.
| that sounds more plausible.
|
| I'm a little confused about a 230 volt circuit. In what part of the
world
| does the utility supply 230v?
|
| jak
|
| In theory, it's 230 on a single phase - neutral circuit here in the UK
now,
| but in practice, it's actually nearer the previously accepted 240v for
the
| most part ...

Is the grounded conductor in a 2-wire 230/240 volt system fed to each home
referred to as "neutral" even in UK?

One common neutral that is grounded back at the nearest transformer
substation, and three phases, fed singly to homes in a reasonably 'balanced'
way (loading-wise). So one side of the street may be fed from one phase, and
the other side of the street from a different phase, then further up the
street, some more houses connected to the remaining phase and so on. Each
house also has a protective ground connection. Generally, no 'pole pigs'
except in rural areas. For the most part, each collection of several hundred
houses, are connected underground to a small building containing 3 phase
transformers. I think that the input to these stations is around 11kV, also
underground. The 'hot' side of the supply is usually known as "live" in the
UK, but is sometimes also known as "phase".

I'm not an electrical engineer, but that's pretty much the basis of the UK
domestic distribution system. Commercial premises usually have a full three
phase plus neutral connection to the network.

Arfa

wrote in message
...
In alt.engineering.electrical operator jay wrote:
|
| "You" wrote in message
| ...
| In article ,
|
| wrote:
|
| There are two different flavors of 220/230/240 volts. Some places
| have a
| simple system with one wire hot and one wire grounded. Other
| places have
| a split system where the voltage is split in half to get
| 110/115/120 volts
| relative to ground, by adding a additional "middle" conductor that
| is the
| grounded one.
|
| Sonny, you need to LEARN the difference between Ground and
| Neutral......
| before you spout any further BS.......
|
| What he wrote looks reasonable to me in terms of ground and neutral.
| Neutral is the grounded conductor where I live. He does not say to
| use a ground as a neutral, if that's what you're getting at. I can
| only guess that that may be what you're getting at, you haven't really
| said.

He might be one of those "knows just enough to be really dangerous" people
on the net. I didn't even mention "neutral". My intent was to explain it
in a simpler way for someone to just understand the basic difference. The
term "middle" was to convey a little more information than "neutral" would
SNIP

Well, I understood what he meant, but maybe I took it the wrong way. When he
said middle conudctor I was thinking the center lug on the transformer which
is grounded and used as the neutral.

Mike

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
writes:
In alt.engineering.electrical Arfa Daily wrote:
|
| "jakdedert" wrote in message
| . ..
| I'm a little confused about a 230 volt circuit. In what part of the
world
| does the utility supply 230v?
|
| jak
|
| In theory, it's 230 on a single phase - neutral circuit here in the UK
now,
| but in practice, it's actually nearer the previously accepted 240v for
the
| most part ...

Is the grounded conductor in a 2-wire 230/240 volt system fed to each
home
referred to as "neutral" even in UK?

Yes, although we have 3 types of supply arrangement for earthing
used on public supplies. (Note that on 240V, there's often far
more distance between the consumer and the transformer than
you'll find in the US on 120V supplies.)

TN-S:
Neutral is grounded only at the transformer, but a separate
earth conductor is carried in the supply network and brought
into the home from that same grounding point.

In the USA they ground the Neutral at the transformer and do not run
a seperate ground conductor to the house. There is however a ground
rod driven which is tied to the neutral at the entrance to the house.
]

I tried first by replacing the capacitor. I could not pry off the
pump because it was rusted shut and bolted on well.
The repair guy said it was a break in the winding. He is rewinding it
for $170.
I was thinking of doing it myself but I was told that rewinding it
manually is tough.

BTW, I cannot refind the "for sale" motor on the web anymore.


What's broken on the original motor? There isn't a whole lot to go wrong
with these, I've yet to run into one I couldn't fix.

In alt.engineering.electrical Michael Kennedy wrote:
|
| wrote in message
| ...
| In alt.engineering.electrical operator jay wrote:
| |
| | "You" wrote in message
| | ...
| | In article ,
| |
| | wrote:
| |
| | There are two different flavors of 220/230/240 volts. Some places
| | have a
| | simple system with one wire hot and one wire grounded. Other
| | places have
| | a split system where the voltage is split in half to get
| | 110/115/120 volts
| | relative to ground, by adding a additional "middle" conductor that
| | is the
| | grounded one.
| |
| | Sonny, you need to LEARN the difference between Ground and
| | Neutral......
| | before you spout any further BS.......
| |
| | What he wrote looks reasonable to me in terms of ground and neutral.
| | Neutral is the grounded conductor where I live. He does not say to
| | use a ground as a neutral, if that's what you're getting at. I can
| | only guess that that may be what you're getting at, you haven't really
| | said.
|
| He might be one of those "knows just enough to be really dangerous" people
| on the net. I didn't even mention "neutral". My intent was to explain it
| in a simpler way for someone to just understand the basic difference. The
| term "middle" was to convey a little more information than "neutral" would
| SNIP
|
| Well, I understood what he meant, but maybe I took it the wrong way. When he
| said middle conudctor I was thinking the center lug on the transformer which
| is grounded and used as the neutral.

That is what I meant when I said middle conductor. I intentionally avoided
calling it neutral for the person I was responding to. I did quote it to
make it clear (but this apparently was not clear enough for at least one
person) for others that I was using some other term.

--
|WARNING: Due to extreme spam, I no longer see any articles originating from |
| Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers |
| you will need to find a different place to post on Usenet. |
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) |

In alt.engineering.electrical Andrew Gabriel wrote:

| Yes, although we have 3 types of supply arrangement for earthing
| used on public supplies. (Note that on 240V, there's often far
| more distance between the consumer and the transformer than
| you'll find in the US on 120V supplies.)

Our supplies to homes are also 240V. We just ground it in a different
way through the use of a center tap and an additional wire, which gets
the neutral designation. For an equivalent _balanced_ load in the US,
we should see no more voltage drop than in the UK. And that voltage
drop will be effectively halved between one of the hots and the neutral.


| TN-S:
| Neutral is grounded only at the transformer, but a separate
| earth conductor is carried in the supply network and brought
| into the home from that same grounding point.
|
| TN-C-S (also known as Protective Multiple Earthing):
| A single PEN (Protective Earth and Neutral) conductor from
| the transformer serves as both neutral and ground connection
| in the supply network. The PEN conductor must also be earthed
| regularly throughout the supply network, and it requires very
| high integrity connections to ensure the risk of it breaking
| is very low (this is a legal requirement). Once the supply
| reaches the consumer, the PEN conductor is split into separate
| neutral and earth conductors in the installation.
|
| TT:
| The supplier grounds the neutral as for TN-S, but doesn't
| provide the consumer with any earthing connection. The
| consumer needs to make their own ground connection for earthing
| (and shouldn't cross-connect this to the neutral).
| TT is only found on old rural overhead supply networks, and
| they are upgraded to TN-C-S when due for refurbishment.
|
| Even if the supplier does provide an earth connection (TN-S
| or TN-C-S), the installation can choose to ignore it and be
| wired as a TT system. This is sometimes done for submains
| to outbuildings and outdoor electrics, even when the main
| installation is TN-S or TN-C-S.
|
| These earthing system arrangements are covered in the uk.d-i-y
| FAQ: http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/electrical/...al.html#system

Nice info!

I'm curious about this: is it legal in the UK for a home to feed their supply
into their own transformer and ground the secondary at that point as a new
system?

--
|WARNING: Due to extreme spam, I no longer see any articles originating from |
| Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers |
| you will need to find a different place to post on Usenet. |
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) |

If you are in North America, and have 120 VAC to the outlets, what you
call 220 or 230 VAC in your home is actually 208 VAC, unless you
installed some kind of transformer to compensate.

I somehow think that the vendor of the motor made an error. Having 280
VAC sounds to me very unconventional, unless this was some kind of
special installation.

I would buy the motor. If in the even that it needed a higher voltage
because it lacks torque for your application, then there is the
possibility of needed an transformer. This would be expensive.

Some motors have a cover plate inside with strappings, to allow changing
its operating voltage, RPM, and direction of rotation.

If you were to run a synchronous motor on a lower voltage, it will have
lower torque rather than lower RPM, unless the supply voltage was
reduced to below the motor's stable operating threshold. Synchronous
motors are dependent on the AC frequency (Hz) for their RPM.



--

JANA
_____


"Deodiaus" wrote in message
...
I have a broken pool motor [magnetek y56y] which will cost a bundle to
fix
or repair.
While doing a search on the web, I found the same model (really cheap)
but
wired for 280V, instead of the 230 V load that my wiring is supplies.
Now, I was thinking of buying the cheap 280V model and installing it
instead. Aside from rotating at a different speed and
maybe some power inefficiencies, are there any other drawbacks of
using the 280V model
instead?

"JANA" wrote in message
news:meWdnTMrMd-EXovVnZ2dnUVZ_tGonZ2d@uniservecommunications...
If you are in North America, and have 120 VAC to the outlets, what you
call 220 or 230 VAC in your home is actually 208 VAC, unless you
installed some kind of transformer to compensate.


No, that's not true. It's 240V, the transformer has a grounded center tap so
120 from either side to neutral, and 240 between the hots. You find 208V in
commercial buildings and some apartment complexes that are fed with 3 phase,
but not in a house, unless you're one of the few lucky people to have 3
phase available.


I somehow think that the vendor of the motor made an error. Having 280
VAC sounds to me very unconventional, unless this was some kind of
special installation.


It's clearly a typo and should be 208V.

"James Sweet" wrote in message
news:NwzRj.2777$uS1.2692@trndny05...


"JANA" wrote in message
news:meWdnTMrMd-EXovVnZ2dnUVZ_tGonZ2d@uniservecommunications...
If you are in North America, and have 120 VAC to the outlets, what you
call 220 or 230 VAC in your home is actually 208 VAC, unless you
installed some kind of transformer to compensate.


No, that's not true. It's 240V, the transformer has a grounded center tap
so 120 from either side to neutral, and 240 between the hots. You find
208V in commercial buildings and some apartment complexes that are fed
with 3 phase, but not in a house, unless you're one of the few lucky
people to have 3 phase available.


I somehow think that the vendor of the motor made an error. Having 280
VAC sounds to me very unconventional, unless this was some kind of
special installation.


It's clearly a typo and should be 208V.



If it's not a silly question, with the motor in question being offered "on
the web, really cheap", then if it's e-bay, why not use the 'ask the seller
a question' option, or if it's a reseller, use his on-site 'contact us'
facility ? Then there would be no debate about typos and exotic voltage
issues ... :-)

Arfa

On Apr 28, 4:07 pm, Deodiaus wrote:
I tried first by replacing the capacitor. I could not pry off the
pump because it was rusted shut and bolted on well.

This is standard with "pool stuff" around water.

The repair guy said it was a break in the winding. He is rewinding it
for $170.
I was thinking of doing it myself but I was told that rewinding it
manually is tough.

He is right, it is.

BTW, I cannot refind the "for sale" motor on the web anymore.

Here's the first lesson in "shopping like a woman": Ya snooze, Ya
loose!
You see that "good price" you MUST buy it right then and there. If you
futz around trying to make up your mind, it'll always be too late!
Later it will be gone. [Hey, you think there's nobody else out there
who can spot a bargain like you?]

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message news:TQARj.75480
If it's not a silly question, with the motor in question being offered "on the
web, really cheap", then if it's e-bay, why not use the 'ask the seller a
question' option, or if it's a reseller, use his on-site 'contact us' facility
? Then there would be no debate about typos and exotic voltage issues ... :-)

Because it's long gone.

On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 02:29:35 -0400, "JANA" wrote:

If you are in North America, and have 120 VAC to the outlets, what you
call 220 or 230 VAC in your home is actually 208 VAC, unless you
installed some kind of transformer to compensate.

Nope. The NA standard residential voltage is 120/240 single phase. 120/208
only happens when the single phase power is derived from a 3 phase
wye-connected transformer bank. The only place I've heard of that happening
on a regular basis is in high-rise apartments.

For smaller buildings, the split delta configuration is more common. This
supplies 120/240 single phase and 240 three phase from one 3-transformer bank.
This is also sometimes known as the "wild leg" configuration because the leg
not associated with the single phase supply has a odd voltage to
neutral/ground. Something like 214 volts if my memory holds.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com -- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
I like you ... you remind me of me when I was young and stupid.

In alt.engineering.electrical JANA wrote:

| If you are in North America, and have 120 VAC to the outlets, what you
| call 220 or 230 VAC in your home is actually 208 VAC, unless you
| installed some kind of transformer to compensate.

That's only true if the source transformer is a three phase WYE/star type.
If you have center tapped delta three phase, or single phase Edison split,
then you have genuine 240 volts (although with that delta you may also have
a third wire that is 208 volts relative to ground/neutral).


| I somehow think that the vendor of the motor made an error. Having 280
| VAC sounds to me very unconventional, unless this was some kind of
| special installation.

It may be a reference to working on 277 volts, which is an available voltage
in some large commercial/industrial locations.

--
|WARNING: Due to extreme spam, I no longer see any articles originating from |
| Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers |
| you will need to find a different place to post on Usenet. |
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) |

On Apr 26, 7:23*pm, "hr(bob) "
wrote:
On Apr 26, 6:14*pm, Jamie





t wrote:
Deodiaus wrote:
I have a broken pool motor [magnetek y56y] which will cost a bundle to
fix
or repair.
While doing a search on the web, I found the same model (really cheap)
but
wired for 280V, instead of the 230 V load that my wiring is supplies.
Now, I was thinking of buying the cheap 280V model and installing it
instead. *Aside from rotating at a different speed and
maybe some power inefficiencies, are there any other drawbacks of
using the 280V model
instead?

* are you sure it isn't 208 ?

--http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

I'd be suspicious that the 280V was a misreading somehow of 230V.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

yeah, where do you find 280 volts? it's either 208 or 230.

? "Deodiaus" ?????? ??? ??????
...
I have a broken pool motor [magnetek y56y] which will cost a bundle to
fix
or repair.
While doing a search on the web, I found the same model (really cheap)
but
wired for 280V, instead of the 230 V load that my wiring is supplies.
Now, I was thinking of buying the cheap 280V model and installing it
instead. Aside from rotating at a different speed and
maybe some power inefficiencies, are there any other drawbacks of
using the 280V model
instead?
Yes-it could be toast in a couple of seconds. While motors with brushes,
like the ones used in short duty appliances, like drills and blenters, will
rotate slower in lower voltages, without problems, Asynchronous motors
(brushless) will really smoke to death if used in voltages significantly
lower than nominal. Can't you find a generic pool motor, if you know the
horsepower, voltage (3 phase? line to line) and intake and outlet gauge? and
maybe rpm?

HTH,


--
Tzortzakakis Dimitrios
major in electrical engineering
mechanized infantry reservist
hordad AT otenet DOT gr