I'm wondering what the expected lifetime is for electrolytic
capacitors in recent years. I'm sure temperature and operating
voltage play a role.

The reason I'm asking is that I recently replaced the electrolytic
capacitors in the power supply of a 23-year-old Fluke signal generator
I own. One of them was "bulging" so I replaced all the large
electrolytics in the supply, and for good measure, the tantalum ones
as well. The supply voltages are now cleaner.

There are a number of other electrolytics on the various circuit
boards in the synthesizer. I've already replaced a few of them as a
precaution, e.g. 16V, 220uF caps across +/-15V supply lines. However,
all the others are operating well below there rated voltage, and I'm
wondering if it's worth replacing them while I have the synthesizer
apart.

-Dave

On 22 Mar, 12:17, wrote:

I'm wondering what the expected lifetime is for electrolytic
capacitors in recent years. I'm sure temperature and operating
voltage play a role.

It varies hugely. Some have lives of thousands of hours, some of over
a century.

Ripple current also affects them.

Capacitors failng to do the job are often not down to bad caps, but
rather bad design with insufficient margins.

I'm no fan of replacing good caps with other good caps that are just
as likely to fail, but if you've found bad caps in there then any
others the same make are probably best replaced.


NT

In article .com,
wrote:
I'm no fan of replacing good caps with other good caps that are just
as likely to fail, but if you've found bad caps in there then any
others the same make are probably best replaced.

On many consumer goods *all* the electrolytics are the same make. I'm not
in favour of the shotgun approach unless you are certain there were batch
etc problems at manufacture.

Coincidentally, I've just fixed four identical radio tuners all with the
same fault. They were installed in a hotel and were on 24/7 power, and all
failed within a short time of one another. The fifth one strangely still
works ok.

The fault was a 22µF 63v electrolytic which is in series with one
transformer winding and that rectifier followed by a voltage regulator.
Dunno why they used this rather strange - to me - arrangement. Three were
open circuit on my ESR meter - the fourth read 55 ohms. It took some
finding as the output from the (discrete) voltage reg circuit was 5 volts
instead of 30 and not being able to read the zener value without removal I
assumed 5 volts was the correct amount...

--
*"I am " is reportedly the shortest sentence in the English language. *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 13:59:34 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

*"I am " is reportedly the shortest sentence in the English language. *

No.

On 22 Mar, 14:09, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 13:59:34 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"

wrote:
*"I am " is reportedly the shortest sentence in the English language. *

No.

OK

On Mar 22, 7:17 am, wrote:
I'm wondering what the expected lifetime is for electrolytic
capacitors in recent years. I'm sure temperature and operating
voltage play a role.

No need to guess-- go to the digi-key catalog and look at the specs.
The lifetimes are a heck of a lot shorter than you might expect.
-- just a few thousand hours at the "rated" temperature.

Then again some of us have 65 year old tube radios with the original
electrolytics.

The only way to tell is to measure each dang one with a cap or ESR
meter. For example many Tek 22xx series scopes need new PS capacitors
as the original ones were of marginal quality. And many small caps,
under 10uF, have dried out much faster than the larger ones and now
are more like resistors than capacitors.

On 2007-03-22 07:09:57 -0700, said:

On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 13:59:34 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

*"I am " is reportedly the shortest sentence in the English language. *

No.

A? (as in "Canadian, a?" - ducking now! eh?)

John :-#)#
--
(Please post followups or tech enquires to the newsgroup) John's
Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call
(604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they
just flip out."

wrote:
On 22 Mar, 12:17, wrote:

I'm wondering what the expected lifetime is for electrolytic
capacitors in recent years. I'm sure temperature and operating
voltage play a role.

It varies hugely. Some have lives of thousands of hours, some of over
a century.

Ripple current also affects them.

Capacitors failng to do the job are often not down to bad caps, but
rather bad design with insufficient margins.

I'm no fan of replacing good caps with other good caps that are just
as likely to fail, but if you've found bad caps in there then any
others the same make are probably best replaced.


NT

I recently came to a sad realization...I'm gonna have
to quit buying (newer) old equipment with the expectation of fixing it.

Was an HP LCD monitor. The cap on the output
of the swticher had failed putting 20V pulses on the
5V supply line. Fixing the cap didn't help 'cause
the 20V had taken out the control processor and who-knows-what-else.

Switcher designs I've seen use the cheapest available components and
have no prevision to limit voltage when the output cap opens...and given
the extreme stress placed on it by the switcher, it will...eventually.

I predict this time bomb is gonna have a profound impact on the
used equipment market.

mike

--
Return address is VALID!
Bunch-O-Stuff Forsale He
http://nm7u.tripod.com/homepage/sale.html

On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 21:20:53 GMT, John Robertson
wrote:

On 2007-03-22 07:09:57 -0700, said:

On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 13:59:34 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

*"I am " is reportedly the shortest sentence in the English language. *

No.

A? (as in "Canadian, a?" - ducking now! eh?)

John :-#)#

"Who opened the door?"
"I"

shortest sentence solved!

On Mar 22, 5:38 pm, mike wrote:

I recently came to a sad realization...I'm gonna have
to quit buying (newer) old equipment with the expectation of fixing it.

A good point, and one I've become mindful of as I've crawled around
the insides of the Fluke signal generator. It's full of rare
integrated circuits, and I imagine some were designed for production
of that specific instrument. Replacing caps is no big deal, but if any
of those chips go south, I'm probably screwed. I suppose I could
attempt to order replacements from those idiotic sites--the ones you
find using Globalspec.com or any of those other annoying search
engines--but I've read that they only deal with industrial buyers that
purchase in large quantities.

-Dave

wrote:
I'm wondering what the expected lifetime is for electrolytic
capacitors in recent years. I'm sure temperature and operating
voltage play a role.

The reason I'm asking is that I recently replaced the electrolytic
capacitors in the power supply of a 23-year-old Fluke signal generator
I own. One of them was "bulging" so I replaced all the large
electrolytics in the supply, and for good measure, the tantalum ones
as well. The supply voltages are now cleaner.

There are a number of other electrolytics on the various circuit
boards in the synthesizer. I've already replaced a few of them as a
precaution, e.g. 16V, 220uF caps across +/-15V supply lines. However,
all the others are operating well below there rated voltage, and I'm
wondering if it's worth replacing them while I have the synthesizer
apart.

-Dave



Lifespan is determined by too many factors to predict. Capacitor
quality, temperature, circuit characteristics, it can range from months
to decades.

wrote in message
oups.com...
On 22 Mar, 12:17, wrote:

I'm wondering what the expected lifetime is for electrolytic
capacitors in recent years. I'm sure temperature and operating
voltage play a role.

It varies hugely. Some have lives of thousands of hours, some of over
a century.

Ripple current also affects them.

Capacitors failng to do the job are often not down to bad caps, but
rather bad design with insufficient margins.


??????????? Isn't that rather what I was saying in that thread last week,
when you were contending that a 40v cap is good to 40 volts long term, and
implying that by saying anything different, I did not know what I was
talking about? Sorry to bring it up, and I really don't want to start all
that up again, but I was gobsmacked when I read what you now seem to be
saying ...

Arfa



I'm no fan of replacing good caps with other good caps that are just
as likely to fail, but if you've found bad caps in there then any
others the same make are probably best replaced.


NT

On Mar 22, 2:28 pm, wrote:
On 22 Mar, 12:17, wrote:

I'm wondering what the expected lifetime is for electrolytic
capacitors in recent years. I'm sure temperature and operating
voltage play a role.

It varies hugely. Some have lives of thousands of hours, some of over
a century.

Ripple current also affects them.

Capacitors failng to do the job are often not down to bad caps, but
rather bad design with insufficient margins.

I think some just fail with age and lack of use too, then fail when
voltage is reapplied. Last week i repaired a portable cassette
recorder with extremely noisy hissy output with the programme material
almost inaudible. there were two caps, a 220uF and 100uF 16v I think ,
across the output stage of the amp. Both were within operating
voltage, looked fine no bulging etc. but this machine had been sitting
for decades without use.

On 23 Mar, 10:45, "Arfa Daily" wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Capacitors failng to do the job are often not down to bad caps, but
rather bad design with insufficient margins.

??????????? Isn't that rather what I was saying in that thread last week,
when you were contending that a 40v cap is good to 40 volts long term, and
implying that by saying anything different, I did not know what I was
talking about? Sorry to bring it up, and I really don't want to start all
that up again, but I was gobsmacked when I read what you now seem to be
saying ...

Arfa

You misunderstood what I was saying significantly, and following your
last response I doubt there's any mileage left in the discussion.


NT

Both were within operating
voltage, looked fine no bulging etc. but this machine had been sitting
for decades without use.

Classic "drying out" of electrolytics. No use needed. Heat speeds the
process, but not required for the end result.
--
Al, the usual

wrote in message
oups.com...
On 23 Mar, 10:45, "Arfa Daily" wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Capacitors failng to do the job are often not down to bad caps, but
rather bad design with insufficient margins.

??????????? Isn't that rather what I was saying in that thread last
week,
when you were contending that a 40v cap is good to 40 volts long term,
and
implying that by saying anything different, I did not know what I was
talking about? Sorry to bring it up, and I really don't want to start all
that up again, but I was gobsmacked when I read what you now seem to be
saying ...

Arfa

You misunderstood what I was saying significantly, and following your
last response I doubt there's any mileage left in the discussion.


Yes, you are right that there is no further mileage in the discussion, and I
meant what I said about not wishing to pursue it further, nor do I now, but
I think that I have got to leave it this time by saying that if I
significantly misunderstood what *you* were saying, then you for sure
misunderstood what *I* was saying ....

Arfa

On 22 Mar 2007 05:17:34 -0700, wrote:

I'm wondering what the expected lifetime is for electrolytic
capacitors in recent years. I'm sure temperature and operating
voltage play a role.


As you said, it depends on a lot of factors. Temp, circuit design and
the quality of the caps are more important. An ESR meter is very
handy in cases like yours. It's not unusual to find a few totally bad
caps when the rest are fine. On the other hand, I've seen plenty of
cases where every last cap is bad.
Andy Cuffe