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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
Hi there,
I have a garage door opener named "Liftboy SMD 3200" which was installed into my garage back in 1990 (in Germany). I couldnīt get any information about this garage door opener on the net. The motor control PCB of it just failed this week. I suspect either any capacity or the voltage regulator to be the culprit. Does anyone know the manufacturer of the PCB shown under http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/9023/cimg0094aq6.jpg ? Unfortunately, the 40-pin PICīs type isnīt readable under the sticker at all īcause its surface seems to have been scratched off under the sticker by the manufacturer of the PCB. Yagh. Which PIC is it supposed to be? There is a Quartz which reads "4.000 SUNNY 7624". Moreover, the same applies to the 16-pin IC: Itīs surface seems to have been treated by the manufacturer of the PCB, i.e. the exact type has been completely scratched off on purpose as well. Is there any way to find out which IC it might be? Please advise. TIA, Joachim |
#2
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
"Joachim Wunder" wrote in message ... I have a garage door opener named "Liftboy SMD 3200" which was installed into my garage back in 1990 (in Germany). I couldnīt get any information about this garage door opener on the net. http://www.liftboy.co.uk/ ?? |
#3
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 23:36:01 GMT, "Homer J Simpson"
wrote: "Joachim Wunder" wrote in message .. . I have a garage door opener named "Liftboy SMD 3200" which was installed into my garage back in 1990 (in Germany). I couldnīt get any information about this garage door opener on the net. http://www.liftboy.co.uk/ ?? Unfortunately not. I already phoned them up today. And, no, they are not the manufacturer of this Liftboy SMD 3200. Any other ideas are highly appreciated. |
#4
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
"Joachim Wunder" wrote in message ... Unfortunately not. I already phoned them up today. And, no, they are not the manufacturer of this Liftboy SMD 3200. Any other ideas are highly appreciated. Any other info on the labels? Country of origin? |
#5
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
"Homer J Simpson" wrote in message news:01Pyh.38172$Fd.27523@edtnps90... "Joachim Wunder" wrote in message ... Unfortunately not. I already phoned them up today. And, no, they are not the manufacturer of this Liftboy SMD 3200. Any other ideas are highly appreciated. Any other info on the labels? Country of origin? Judging by the amount of heat that has been pouring off that regulator, and discolouring the board above, the first thing that I would be doing is removing that chip that says " VOH " on it from its socket and cleaning the pins. What exactly is the board doing wrong ? Assuming that device is a PIC, in general, they are very reliable. Arfa |
#6
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 00:13:48 GMT, "Homer J Simpson"
wrote: "Joachim Wunder" wrote in message .. . Unfortunately not. I already phoned them up today. And, no, they are not the manufacturer of this Liftboy SMD 3200. Any other ideas are highly appreciated. Any other info on the labels? Country of origin? No, unfortunately not. Well, on the backside of the PCB is printed "PRO6101-28" in one corner. Thatīs all. Well, the garage door opener was installed into my garage from a small company called "Schiel" from northern Germany. Well, they said that the manufacturer went bancrupt a couple of years ago and that they donīt have any spare parts or information about this product of mine no more. Well, and the garage door opener "Chamberlain" said to me that "Liftboy" might have been an US based manufacturer who went bancrupt a couple of years ago, but they were not sure about it. I called up Chamberlain not only in Germany but even in Illinois, US. |
#7
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 00:32:28 GMT, "Arfa Daily"
wrote: "Homer J Simpson" wrote in message news:01Pyh.38172$Fd.27523@edtnps90... "Joachim Wunder" wrote in message ... Unfortunately not. I already phoned them up today. And, no, they are not the manufacturer of this Liftboy SMD 3200. Any other ideas are highly appreciated. Any other info on the labels? Country of origin? Judging by the amount of heat that has been pouring off that regulator, and discolouring the board above, the first thing that I would be doing is removing that chip that says " VOH " on it from its socket and cleaning the pins. What exactly is the board doing wrong ? Assuming that device is a PIC, in general, they are very reliable. Arfa Well, ok, cleaning the 16-pin ICīs pins will be easy, and Iīll do so, of course. Well, from my first investigations the 40-pin PIC is very likely to be an Intel 8748 or 8749. Question now is what current PIC is still compatible to this old-fashioned one. The whole board should control the 220V~ motor of the garage door opener, but nothing happens no more. The board behaves like dead. Reason might be a 25W bulb which blew off just before the board didnīt show any reactions no more. The 25W bulb is connected in parallel to the PCBīs power supply. |
#8
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
"Joachim Wunder" wrote in message ... Judging by the amount of heat that has been pouring off that regulator, and discolouring the board above, the first thing that I would be doing is removing that chip that says " VOH " on it from its socket and cleaning the pins. What exactly is the board doing wrong ? Assuming that device is a PIC, in general, they are very reliable. Arfa Well, ok, cleaning the 16-pin ICīs pins will be easy, and Iīll do so, of course. Well, from my first investigations the 40-pin PIC is very likely to be an Intel 8748 or 8749. Question now is what current PIC is still compatible to this old-fashioned one. The whole board should control the 220V~ motor of the garage door opener, but nothing happens no more. The board behaves like dead. Reason might be a 25W bulb which blew off just before the board didnīt show any reactions no more. The 25W bulb is connected in parallel to the PCBīs power supply. If indeed this is a PIC or some other type of microcontroller, you cannot just replace it. It has to be programmed with the original code. Good luck acquiring that since most manufacturers set a bit in the device to prevent reading the program stored within. The failure of the 25 watt bulb may be a clue. A bulb can momentarily create nearly a direct short when it fails. What voltage is this bulb? 220v or something smaller? David |
#9
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
"Joachim Wunder" wrote in message ... Any other info on the labels? Country of origin? No, unfortunately not. Well, on the backside of the PCB is printed "PRO6101-28" in one corner. Thatīs all. Well, the garage door opener was installed into my garage from a small company called "Schiel" from northern Germany. Well, they said that the manufacturer went bancrupt a couple of years ago and that they donīt have any spare parts or information about this product of mine no more. Well, and the garage door opener "Chamberlain" said to me that "Liftboy" might have been an US based manufacturer who went bancrupt a couple of years ago, but they were not sure about it. I called up Chamberlain not only in Germany but even in Illinois, US. At this point I'd buy a whole new one from a reputable company but I know prices there are higher than here. It'll be a miracle if you can get any parts for this unless you can track down someone who used to install or repair them. |
#10
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 01:00:10 GMT, "David"
wrote: "Joachim Wunder" wrote in message .. . Judging by the amount of heat that has been pouring off that regulator, and discolouring the board above, the first thing that I would be doing is removing that chip that says " VOH " on it from its socket and cleaning the pins. What exactly is the board doing wrong ? Assuming that device is a PIC, in general, they are very reliable. Arfa Well, ok, cleaning the 16-pin ICīs pins will be easy, and Iīll do so, of course. Well, from my first investigations the 40-pin PIC is very likely to be an Intel 8748 or 8749. Question now is what current PIC is still compatible to this old-fashioned one. The whole board should control the 220V~ motor of the garage door opener, but nothing happens no more. The board behaves like dead. Reason might be a 25W bulb which blew off just before the board didnīt show any reactions no more. The 25W bulb is connected in parallel to the PCBīs power supply. If indeed this is a PIC or some other type of microcontroller, you cannot just replace it. It has to be programmed with the original code. Good luck acquiring that since most manufacturers set a bit in the device to prevent reading the program stored within. Yes, I am aware of the fact that I would need a PIC programmer and a new 8748 or 8749 PIC (Iīm still not sure which one it really is). Pretty good question where to still get such a component from, I know,... is there any equivalent PIC which offers the same pin assignment and code compatibility of a 8748/8749? I know, even I doubt that, but I better ask in this group before giving up. The failure of the 25 watt bulb may be a clue. A bulb can momentarily create nearly a direct short when it fails. What voltage is this bulb? 220v or something smaller? 220V AC, as we have in Germany. David Joachim |
#11
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 01:04:14 GMT, "Homer J Simpson"
wrote: "Joachim Wunder" wrote in message .. . Any other info on the labels? Country of origin? No, unfortunately not. Well, on the backside of the PCB is printed "PRO6101-28" in one corner. Thatīs all. Well, the garage door opener was installed into my garage from a small company called "Schiel" from northern Germany. Well, they said that the manufacturer went bancrupt a couple of years ago and that they donīt have any spare parts or information about this product of mine no more. Well, and the garage door opener "Chamberlain" said to me that "Liftboy" might have been an US based manufacturer who went bancrupt a couple of years ago, but they were not sure about it. I called up Chamberlain not only in Germany but even in Illinois, US. At this point I'd buy a whole new one from a reputable company but I know prices there are higher than here. It'll be a miracle if you can get any parts for this unless you can track down someone who used to install or repair them. Yes, I know, chances are low. Tomorrow Iīll try again at the small German company which installed it back in 1990. |
#12
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
Hi!
I think the large IC looks like an 8031/8051 microcontroller...these are a very popular, relatively low cost and highly available part. Are you sure the power supply is working correctly? Perhaps it suffered some damage or opened a fuse when the bulb blew. One of these is ROMless, but I don't remember which one. What does the little pushbutton on the board do? William |
#13
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
"Joachim Wunder" wrote in message ... Yes, I know, chances are low. Tomorrow Iīll try again at the small German company which installed it back in 1990. Sometimes they know a guy who knows a guy . . . . . In a company I worked at, we had 4 injection moulding machines of poor design and reliability which were made in Austria by a company that went bankrupt. It was a PITA keeping those suckers going. We had to reinforce various parts with welded bracing. The Swiss ones (design styling by Italians) we replaced them with were expensive but were a joy to work on and would take anything you could dish out. Watching them mould a 2 litre bowl every 4 seconds was almost frightening to see. |
#14
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 01:54:33 GMT, "Homer J Simpson"
wrote: "Joachim Wunder" wrote in message .. . Yes, I know, chances are low. Tomorrow Iīll try again at the small German company which installed it back in 1990. Sometimes they know a guy who knows a guy . . . . . Right. I will give it a last try. In a company I worked at, we had 4 injection moulding machines of poor design and reliability which were made in Austria by a company that went bankrupt. It was a PITA keeping those suckers going. We had to reinforce various parts with welded bracing. Hey, could you do me a favour please? What was the name of the company in Austria? That all rings a bell to me: Company "Schiel" in Germany still believes, that my garage door openerīs motor control PCB was made in Austria as well. And when I look at the backside of the PCB, oh man, the soldering.. like if a 5-year-old child would have done some work on it. Various parts with welded bracing as well. Ufff. I will need some real professional soldering work to get all of that crap corrected anyway. The Swiss ones (design styling by Italians) we replaced them with were expensive but were a joy to work on and would take anything you could dish out. Watching them mould a 2 litre bowl every 4 seconds was almost frightening to see. I see.. I am not yet decided, but may do so soon if that hunting for the manufacturer wonīt come to an end soon. |
#15
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 01:51:11 GMT, "William R. Walsh"
m wrote: Hi! I think the large IC looks like an 8031/8051 microcontroller...these are a very popular, relatively low cost and highly available part. Are you sure Well, if I recall it right, then the 8031/8051 microcontroller comes in plastic package and doesnīt has an EPROM memory like the 8748/8749, right? So, I tend more for my PIC to be one of 8748/8749, but correct me if Iīm wrong. the power supply is working correctly? Perhaps it suffered some damage or opened a fuse when the bulb blew. No fuse on the whole PCB unfortunately. And, yes, the power supply still outputs a stable 12V DC. One of these is ROMless, but I don't remember which one. What does the little pushbutton on the board do? The little pushbutton normally helps the installer to testdrive the garage door open and closed. Thatīs what I know for sure about this PCB. William Joachim |
#16
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
"Joachim Wunder" wrote in message ... Hey, could you do me a favour please? What was the name of the company in Austria? That all rings a bell to me: Company "Schiel" in Germany still believes, that my garage door openerīs motor control PCB was made in Austria as well. And when I look at the backside of the PCB, oh man, the soldering.. like if a 5-year-old child would have done some work on it. Various parts with welded bracing as well. Ufff. I will need some real professional soldering work to get all of that crap corrected anyway. It was over 25 years ago. It might pop back into my head but I doubt it. However these companies had nothing to do with garage door openers. You could design and build your own replacement, or maybe you could buy and adapt the parts from a different model. |
#17
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
Joachim Wunder wrote:
Hi there, I have a garage door opener named "Liftboy SMD 3200" which was installed into my garage back in 1990 (in Germany). I couldnīt get any information about this garage door opener on the net. The motor control PCB of it just failed this week. I suspect either any capacity or the voltage regulator to be the culprit. Does anyone know the manufacturer of the PCB shown under http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/9023/cimg0094aq6.jpg ? Unfortunately, the 40-pin PICīs type isnīt readable under the sticker at all īcause its surface seems to have been scratched off under the sticker by the manufacturer of the PCB. Yagh. Which PIC is it supposed to be? There is a Quartz which reads "4.000 SUNNY 7624". Moreover, the same applies to the 16-pin IC: Itīs surface seems to have been treated by the manufacturer of the PCB, i.e. the exact type has been completely scratched off on purpose as well. Is there any way to find out which IC it might be? Please advise. TIA, Joachim The IC will have custom firmware on it so you won't be able to replace it. Chances are unless the regulator has failed in a short circuit and caused the voltage to rise, the chips are probably fine. Check to see if the filter capacitor is shorted, I recently repaired an old Volkswagen ECU that had a shorted electrolytic capacitor filtering the 5V output, resulting in a dead car. |
#18
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
Hi!
Well, if I recall it right, then the 8031/8051 microcontroller comes in plastic package and doesnīt has an EPROM memory like the 8748/8749, right? So, I tend more for my PIC to be one of 8748/8749, but correct me if Iīm wrong. Hmmm...checking the Intel datasheet for the 803x/805x family shows that some of them (8051/8052/8751) do have onboard ROM program memory. At least one UV-eraseable version also exists. Any packaging could be possible, given how many different companies have produced these parts over the years. Intel mentions a "CERDIP" package in their datasheet, which I would take to mean "ceramic DIP". Another thought just occurred to me...and maybe it occurred to you as well. Did you pull the chip and check the bottom of it to see if there might be anything printed there? William |
#19
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 01:49:26 +0100, Joachim Wunder
wrote: On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 00:32:28 GMT, "Arfa Daily" wrote: "Homer J Simpson" wrote in message news:01Pyh.38172$Fd.27523@edtnps90... "Joachim Wunder" wrote in message ... Unfortunately not. I already phoned them up today. And, no, they are not the manufacturer of this Liftboy SMD 3200. Any other ideas are highly appreciated. Any other info on the labels? Country of origin? Judging by the amount of heat that has been pouring off that regulator, and discolouring the board above, the first thing that I would be doing is removing that chip that says " VOH " on it from its socket and cleaning the pins. What exactly is the board doing wrong ? Assuming that device is a PIC, in general, they are very reliable. Arfa Well, ok, cleaning the 16-pin ICīs pins will be easy, and Iīll do so, of course. Well, from my first investigations the 40-pin PIC is very likely to be an Intel 8748 or 8749. Question now is what current PIC is still compatible to this old-fashioned one. The whole board should control the 220V~ motor of the garage door opener, but nothing happens no more. The board behaves like dead. Reason might be a 25W bulb which blew off just before the board didnīt show any reactions no more. The 25W bulb is connected in parallel to the PCBīs power supply. Exactly what markings are on the ?TO220-ish device below the small PCB? If that is a 3-terminal reg, I'd be checking it out as well. |
#20
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
"James Sweet" wrote in message news:CHRyh.3413$yI1.3217@trndny01... Joachim Wunder wrote: Hi there, I have a garage door opener named "Liftboy SMD 3200" which was installed into my garage back in 1990 (in Germany). I couldnīt get any information about this garage door opener on the net. The motor control PCB of it just failed this week. I suspect either any capacity or the voltage regulator to be the culprit. Does anyone know the manufacturer of the PCB shown under http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/9023/cimg0094aq6.jpg ? Unfortunately, the 40-pin PICīs type isnīt readable under the sticker at all īcause its surface seems to have been scratched off under the sticker by the manufacturer of the PCB. Yagh. Which PIC is it supposed to be? There is a Quartz which reads "4.000 SUNNY 7624". Moreover, the same applies to the 16-pin IC: Itīs surface seems to have been treated by the manufacturer of the PCB, i.e. the exact type has been completely scratched off on purpose as well. Is there any way to find out which IC it might be? Please advise. TIA, Joachim The IC will have custom firmware on it so you won't be able to replace it. Chances are unless the regulator has failed in a short circuit and caused the voltage to rise, the chips are probably fine. Check to see if the filter capacitor is shorted, I recently repaired an old Volkswagen ECU that had a shorted electrolytic capacitor filtering the 5V output, resulting in a dead car. It seems to me that this is all getting a bit over-complicated. Why would a simple device like this even need a micro-controller ? Some years back, it was fairly common practice to put chips like this onto boards, that actually did nothing. Literally just there for show to make the item look worth the money that was being charged for it. Anyway, it seems that there is an obvious transformer, reccies, and a smoothing cap. Is that where you are measuring the 12v that you mentioned ? The very hot looking TO220 device next to the smoothing cap is 99% certain a standard 3 pin monolithic regulator IC, and I would guess that it's almost certainly a 5v one, so do you measure something like 12v, 0v, 5v on its pins ? If you do, do you have a 'scope ? Can you measure any clock activity at that crystal ? Beyond that, without a detailed knowledge of the functionality, and schematics, it's pretty much impossible to come up with a valid test strategy, that's likely to result in a repaired board. Arfa |
#21
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 13:22:26 +0800, rebel wrote:
On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 01:49:26 +0100, Joachim Wunder wrote: On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 00:32:28 GMT, "Arfa Daily" wrote: "Homer J Simpson" wrote in message news:01Pyh.38172$Fd.27523@edtnps90... "Joachim Wunder" wrote in message ... Unfortunately not. I already phoned them up today. And, no, they are not the manufacturer of this Liftboy SMD 3200. Any other ideas are highly appreciated. Any other info on the labels? Country of origin? Judging by the amount of heat that has been pouring off that regulator, and discolouring the board above, the first thing that I would be doing is removing that chip that says " VOH " on it from its socket and cleaning the pins. What exactly is the board doing wrong ? Assuming that device is a PIC, in general, they are very reliable. Arfa Well, ok, cleaning the 16-pin ICīs pins will be easy, and Iīll do so, of course. Well, from my first investigations the 40-pin PIC is very likely to be an Intel 8748 or 8749. Question now is what current PIC is still compatible to this old-fashioned one. The whole board should control the 220V~ motor of the garage door opener, but nothing happens no more. The board behaves like dead. Reason might be a 25W bulb which blew off just before the board didnīt show any reactions no more. The 25W bulb is connected in parallel to the PCBīs power supply. Exactly what markings are on the ?TO220-ish device below the small PCB? If that is a 3-terminal reg, I'd be checking it out as well. This is a L7805C-V voltage regulator. Any means to desolder it and test it offline? |
#22
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 04:47:29 GMT, "William R. Walsh"
m wrote: Hi! Well, if I recall it right, then the 8031/8051 microcontroller comes in plastic package and doesnīt has an EPROM memory like the 8748/8749, right? So, I tend more for my PIC to be one of 8748/8749, but correct me if Iīm wrong. Hmmm...checking the Intel datasheet for the 803x/805x family shows that some of them (8051/8052/8751) do have onboard ROM program memory. At least one UV-eraseable version also exists. Any packaging could be possible, given how many different companies have produced these parts over the years. Intel mentions a "CERDIP" package in their datasheet, which I would take to mean "ceramic DIP". Another thought just occurred to me...and maybe it occurred to you as well. Did you pull the chip and check the bottom of it to see if there might be anything printed there? William Hi William, yes, yesterday I once pulled the chip (unfortunately, I already pushed it in again). It sayed something like a numberAA, MALAY 963. I did a reverse lookup on Google, just to find out nothing about it. I think the number simply is kind of a serial number or so. But is there any site where I could do a reverse lookup of such numbers just to find out the exact type of the microcontroller? If so, I would dare to pull the chip again. |
#23
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 03:15:46 GMT, James Sweet
wrote: Joachim Wunder wrote: Hi there, I have a garage door opener named "Liftboy SMD 3200" which was installed into my garage back in 1990 (in Germany). I couldnīt get any information about this garage door opener on the net. The motor control PCB of it just failed this week. I suspect either any capacity or the voltage regulator to be the culprit. Does anyone know the manufacturer of the PCB shown under http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/9023/cimg0094aq6.jpg ? Unfortunately, the 40-pin PICīs type isnīt readable under the sticker at all īcause its surface seems to have been scratched off under the sticker by the manufacturer of the PCB. Yagh. Which PIC is it supposed to be? There is a Quartz which reads "4.000 SUNNY 7624". Moreover, the same applies to the 16-pin IC: Itīs surface seems to have been treated by the manufacturer of the PCB, i.e. the exact type has been completely scratched off on purpose as well. Is there any way to find out which IC it might be? Please advise. TIA, Joachim The IC will have custom firmware on it so you won't be able to replace it. Chances are unless the regulator has failed in a short circuit and caused the voltage to rise, the chips are probably fine. Check to see if the filter capacitor is shorted, I recently repaired an old Volkswagen ECU that had a shorted electrolytic capacitor filtering the 5V output, resulting in a dead car. No, the filter capacitor is not shorted, I just measured it. Hmmm. |
#24
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 09:49:43 GMT, "Arfa Daily"
wrote: "James Sweet" wrote in message news:CHRyh.3413$yI1.3217@trndny01... Joachim Wunder wrote: Hi there, I have a garage door opener named "Liftboy SMD 3200" which was installed into my garage back in 1990 (in Germany). I couldnīt get any information about this garage door opener on the net. The motor control PCB of it just failed this week. I suspect either any capacity or the voltage regulator to be the culprit. Does anyone know the manufacturer of the PCB shown under http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/9023/cimg0094aq6.jpg ? Unfortunately, the 40-pin PICīs type isnīt readable under the sticker at all īcause its surface seems to have been scratched off under the sticker by the manufacturer of the PCB. Yagh. Which PIC is it supposed to be? There is a Quartz which reads "4.000 SUNNY 7624". Moreover, the same applies to the 16-pin IC: Itīs surface seems to have been treated by the manufacturer of the PCB, i.e. the exact type has been completely scratched off on purpose as well. Is there any way to find out which IC it might be? Please advise. TIA, Joachim The IC will have custom firmware on it so you won't be able to replace it. Chances are unless the regulator has failed in a short circuit and caused the voltage to rise, the chips are probably fine. Check to see if the filter capacitor is shorted, I recently repaired an old Volkswagen ECU that had a shorted electrolytic capacitor filtering the 5V output, resulting in a dead car. It seems to me that this is all getting a bit over-complicated. Why would a simple device like this even need a micro-controller ? Some years back, it was fairly common practice to put chips like this onto boards, that actually did nothing. Literally just there for show to make the item look worth the money that was being charged for it. Anyway, it seems that there is an obvious transformer, reccies, and a smoothing cap. Is that where you are measuring the 12v that you mentioned ? The very hot looking TO220 device next to the smoothing cap is 99% certain a standard 3 pin monolithic Yes, itīs a "L7805C-V". Well, I didnīt yet supply any 220V AC voltage to the board in an offline test yet. I.e. after the garage door opener failed, I didnīt dare yet to put on 220V~ again. Hmmm, is there any valid means to test this "L7805C-V" offline with a 12V DC power source? regulator IC, and I would guess that it's almost certainly a 5v one, so do It definitely is a 5v one! you measure something like 12v, 0v, 5v on its pins ? If you do, do you have a 'scope ? Can you measure any clock activity at that crystal ? Beyond that, Unfortunately, I donīt have a scope, only a meter. without a detailed knowledge of the functionality, and schematics, it's pretty much impossible to come up with a valid test strategy, that's likely to result in a repaired board. Yes, I know. By the way, might he 16-pin IC a I2C maybe? If so, which ones were commonly used to control an Intel 8748/8749 ? Arfa Thanks, Joachim |
#25
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 23:59:28 +0100, Joachim Wunder
wrote: Hi there, I have a garage door opener named "Liftboy SMD 3200" which was installed into my garage back in 1990 (in Germany). I couldnīt get any information about this garage door opener on the net. The motor control PCB of it just failed this week. I suspect either any capacity or the voltage regulator to be the culprit. Does anyone know the manufacturer of the PCB shown under http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/9023/cimg0094aq6.jpg ? Unfortunately, the 40-pin PICīs type isnīt readable under the sticker at all īcause its surface seems to have been scratched off under the sticker by the manufacturer of the PCB. Yagh. Which PIC is it supposed to be? There is a Quartz which reads "4.000 SUNNY 7624". Moreover, the same applies to the 16-pin IC: Itīs surface seems to have been treated by the manufacturer of the PCB, i.e. the exact type has been completely scratched off on purpose as well. Is there any way to find out which IC it might be? I just measured the pins of the 16-pin IC with a logic tester: Pin 14 always stays HIGH at +5V with 2 MHz. Does that point me to a Philips I2C with a SCL line at Pin 14? If so, which I2C might that be? Please advise. TIA, Joachim Thanks, Joachim |
#26
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
"Joachim Wunder" wrote in message ... On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 03:15:46 GMT, James Sweet wrote: Joachim Wunder wrote: Hi there, I have a garage door opener named "Liftboy SMD 3200" which was installed into my garage back in 1990 (in Germany). I couldnīt get any information about this garage door opener on the net. The motor control PCB of it just failed this week. I suspect either any capacity or the voltage regulator to be the culprit. Does anyone know the manufacturer of the PCB shown under http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/9023/cimg0094aq6.jpg ? Unfortunately, the 40-pin PICīs type isnīt readable under the sticker at all īcause its surface seems to have been scratched off under the sticker by the manufacturer of the PCB. Yagh. Which PIC is it supposed to be? There is a Quartz which reads "4.000 SUNNY 7624". Moreover, the same applies to the 16-pin IC: Itīs surface seems to have been treated by the manufacturer of the PCB, i.e. the exact type has been completely scratched off on purpose as well. Is there any way to find out which IC it might be? Please advise. TIA, Joachim The IC will have custom firmware on it so you won't be able to replace it. Chances are unless the regulator has failed in a short circuit and caused the voltage to rise, the chips are probably fine. Check to see if the filter capacitor is shorted, I recently repaired an old Volkswagen ECU that had a shorted electrolytic capacitor filtering the 5V output, resulting in a dead car. No, the filter capacitor is not shorted, I just measured it. Hmmm. As long ago as this was made, I2C was not a common bus scheme ( if it even existed at all ) and in any case, what would want to be communicating over such a bus in a simple door controller ?? The regulator can be checked out of the board by applying any voltage over about 9v between the left pin ( +9 ) and the centre pin ( 0v ), and measuring the output for +5v between the right pin and the centre pin. This is with the writing towards you or metal tab away from you. However, you are never going to get to the bottom of this board's problems by being afraid of it. A bulb blowing across the primary of the Tx, is highly unlikely to have done any damage to it, and even if it had, what is going to be the problem ? An o/c primary winding ? No problem, the board just won't do anything. A s/c or shorted turns primary ? No problem - it'll just blow the mains fuse, or smoke. No matter what, it doesn't work now anyway, and you have no clue why unless you put some power on, and take some readings. It could be something as simple as a bad power supply circuit - one of the reccies, or the 5v regulator, or yes, the tranny even, but unless you build up the courage to put some power on and see just what's going on, you're never going to know. Anything we suggest at this point, is really just useless conjecture, yes ?? Arfa |
#27
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 02:10:40 +0100, Joachim Wunder
put finger to keyboard and composed: Yes, I am aware of the fact that I would need a PIC programmer and a new 8748 or 8749 PIC (Iīm still not sure which one it really is). Pretty good question where to still get such a component from, I know,... is there any equivalent PIC which offers the same pin assignment and code compatibility of a 8748/8749? I know, even I doubt that, but I better ask in this group before giving up. It could also be an 8751, although the location of the crystal would suggest a 48 or 49. You should be able to narrow down the likely contenders for the uC by determining which pins are Vcc (40?), Vdd (26?), Ground (20?), crystal (2 & 3?), reset (is there a resistor and capacitor at pin 4?). FWIW, I have some 8749 chips in my junk box. I also have a device programmer that can handle them. If you are lucky, and if the uC has dead ports but accessible EPROM, and if the security bit (?) has not been set, then I may be able to copy it for you. In the past I've been able to recover code from bad ROM versions of Intel uCs and replace them with the EPROM versions. BTW, I'm in Australia. - Franc Zabkar -- Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email. |
#28
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 13:37:10 +0100, Joachim Wunder
put finger to keyboard and composed: might the 16-pin IC a I2C maybe? If so, which ones were commonly used to control an Intel 8748/8749 ? There appear to be 8 or so interconnect pins at the RHS of the 16-pin IC. Can you trace them to the uC's pins? Do they go to the data bus, ie pins 12 through 19? Which pins are power and ground? What is the IC to the right of the relays? Which chip/component drives the relay coils? - Franc Zabkar -- Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email. |
#29
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
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#30
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
"Arfa Daily" wrote in
: "Joachim Wunder" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 03:15:46 GMT, James Sweet wrote: Joachim Wunder wrote: Hi there, I have a garage door opener named "Liftboy SMD 3200" which was installed into my garage back in 1990 (in Germany). I couldnīt get any information about this garage door opener on the net. The motor control PCB of it just failed this week. I suspect either any capacity or the voltage regulator to be the culprit. Does anyone know the manufacturer of the PCB shown under http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/9023/cimg0094aq6.jpg ? Unfortunately, the 40-pin PICīs type isnīt readable under the sticker at all īcause its surface seems to have been scratched off under the sticker by the manufacturer of the PCB. Yagh. Which PIC is it supposed to be? There is a Quartz which reads "4.000 SUNNY 7624". Moreover, the same applies to the 16-pin IC: Itīs surface seems to have been treated by the manufacturer of the PCB, i.e. the exact type has been completely scratched off on purpose as well. Is there any way to find out which IC it might be? Please advise. TIA, Joachim No, the filter capacitor is not shorted, I just measured it. Hmmm. As long ago as this was made, I2C was not a common bus scheme ( if it even existed at all ) and in any case, what would want to be communicating over such a bus in a simple door controller ?? The regulator can be checked out of the board by applying any voltage over about 9v between the left pin ( +9 ) and the centre pin ( 0v ), and measuring the output for +5v between the right pin and the centre pin. This is with the writing towards you or metal tab away from you. However, you are never going to get to the bottom of this board's problems by being afraid of it. A bulb blowing across the primary of the Tx, is highly unlikely to have done any damage to it, and even if it had, what is going to be the problem ? An o/c primary winding ? No problem, the board just won't do anything. A s/c or shorted turns primary ? No problem - it'll just blow the mains fuse, or smoke. No matter what, it doesn't work now anyway, and you have no clue why unless you put some power on, and take some readings. It could be something as simple as a bad power supply circuit - one of the reccies, or the 5v regulator, or yes, the tranny even, but unless you build up the courage to put some power on and see just what's going on, you're never going to know. Anything we suggest at this point, is really just useless conjecture, yes ?? Arfa Yes. Does the motor work? Do the relays switch? Are all the Diodes functional? What causes you to suspect the IC's? Are you just whistling in the dark because the voltage regulator that normally gets hot has discolored the circuit board it sits under? Without actual troubleshooting you are not going to get anywhere... ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#31
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 03:28:39 GMT, "Homer J Simpson"
wrote: Tried these guys? http://www.aaaremotes.com/gegadoopcibo.html No, I didnīt tried them yet. But I have done some good progress today: After a whole bunch of further phone calls I was now finally able to find out the manufacturer of the PCB. Itīs a very small company in Saar/Northern Germany. They are not on the Web, so you simply canīt find them there, unfortunately. But the company who installed the garage door opener back in 1990 had a deeper look into their archive to find out this small company for me, again. Thanks God. Well, even this company is located in Northern Germany but not presented on the Web at all. So, life sometimes really sucks, I know. Well, unfortunately, the techie himself who designed the PCB wasnīt in today, but another tech person of the same company told me that they MIGHT have some spare PCB still in stock. Thanks God. But this is only an assumption and cannot be clarified before the upcoming Monday. So, I will keep you all posted here. And, moreover, the techie whom I had on the phone today even told me that all employees are definitely not authorized to hand out any circuitry plans or specs/types of the microcontroller and the accompanying IC. Holy cow.... anyway... thereīs some hope the next Monday. Iīll report back and keep you all posted with an update then. In the meantime.. thank you ALL so much for your tremendous support! For the rest of the reponses from all of you, I will answer one after the other post. So, please be patient with me. Iīm just sitting here with a logical test device to find out any more information. Joachim |
#32
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:27:49 +1100, Franc Zabkar
wrote: On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 13:37:10 +0100, Joachim Wunder put finger to keyboard and composed: might the 16-pin IC a I2C maybe? If so, which ones were commonly used to control an Intel 8748/8749 ? I just uploaded seperate larger pics of the front and back side of the PCB: front side: http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/3231/cimg0083kj3.jpg back side: http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/1555/cimg0084qg6.jpg I am sorry to not have done that any earlier. On weekends I now have a little more time to take better pics and start any systematical diagnostic tests. There appear to be 8 or so interconnect pins at the RHS of the 16-pin IC. Can you trace them to the uC's pins? Do they go to the data bus, ie pins 12 through 19? As far as I can see Pins 12, 13 and 14 of the microcontroller are connected to the interconnect pins at the RHS of the 16-pin IC. Which pins are power and ground? Pin 8 is V_SS (GND) and Pin 16 is V_DD (+5V) as far as I measured on the 16-pin IC. What is the IC to the right of the relays? Thatīs a PHILIPS CNY17-4 Optocoupler. Which chip/component drives the relay coils? Thatīs actually a BC237B transistor each. They are hidden below the piggyback PCB, unfortunately. - Franc Zabkar Thanks Joachim |
#33
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:27:49 +1100, Franc Zabkar
wrote: On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 02:10:40 +0100, Joachim Wunder put finger to keyboard and composed: Yes, I am aware of the fact that I would need a PIC programmer and a new 8748 or 8749 PIC (Iīm still not sure which one it really is). Pretty good question where to still get such a component from, I know,... is there any equivalent PIC which offers the same pin assignment and code compatibility of a 8748/8749? I know, even I doubt that, but I better ask in this group before giving up. It could also be an 8751, although the location of the crystal would suggest a 48 or 49. You should be able to narrow down the likely contenders for the uC by determining which pins are Vcc (40?), Vdd (26?), Ground (20?), crystal (2 & 3?), reset (is there a resistor and capacitor at pin 4?). I just measured: Pin 40 is Vcc, Pin 26 is Vdd, Pin 20 is Ground, Pins 2 & 3 are crystal. At Pin 3 there is a 22 picofarad capacity as well. Between Pins 4 & 5 is a resistor with 10kOhms. FWIW, I have some 8749 chips in my junk box. I also have a device programmer that can handle them. If you are lucky, and if the uC has dead ports but accessible EPROM, and if the security bit (?) has not been set, then I may be able to copy it for you. In the past I've been able to recover code from bad ROM versions of Intel uCs and replace them with the EPROM versions. Thanks for your very friendly offer. I just recovered my old Eprom Burner from 1992 yesterday night. Itīs a German model from www.elv.de with a separate ISA card, DOS software and an external adapter which plugs right into the ISA card with a fat ribbon cable. Unfortunately, right now I only have the 32 pin textool external adapter which is capable to mainly handly only EPROMs at sizes up to 2 MByte. Anyway, I just contacted ELV Germany and asked them whether they still have the external adapter with 40 pin textool socket. This adapter is explicitely described to be able to handle 8748/49 ĩCs in the manual of the burner. And even the old DOS software is able to handle these 8748/49 ĩCs. Thus, I will see what ELV will respond. I then may get back to your friendly offer. Thanks a mil. BTW, I'm in Australia. Oh, well. I always order most of my satellite dish from Australia. Thus, distance shouldnīt be an issue for me. *g* - Franc Zabkar Kind regards Joachim |
#34
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 22:12:53 GMT, "Arfa Daily"
wrote: The IC will have custom firmware on it so you won't be able to replace it. Chances are unless the regulator has failed in a short circuit and caused the voltage to rise, the chips are probably fine. Check to see if the filter capacitor is shorted, I recently repaired an old Volkswagen ECU that had a shorted electrolytic capacitor filtering the 5V output, resulting in a dead car. No, the filter capacitor is not shorted, I just measured it. Hmmm. As long ago as this was made, I2C was not a common bus scheme ( if it even existed at all ) and in any case, what would want to be communicating over such a bus in a simple door controller ?? Well, I thought it could be an A/D D/A converter from Philips maybe (like a PCF8591, for example). Or an I/O expander. But thatīs just a guess, youīre right. The regulator can be checked out of the board by applying any voltage over about 9v between the left pin ( +9 ) and the centre pin ( 0v ), and measuring the output for +5v between the right pin and the centre pin. This is with the writing towards you or metal tab away from you. However, you are never going to get to the bottom of this board's problems by being afraid of it. Well, no reason for me to be afraid anymo I already applied 230V AC to the large pins 3 & 4 on the backside of the PCB (counted from left to right on http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/1...mg0084qg6.jpg). Result: The voltage regulator is definitely not defective at all. I can read a correct output of +5V between the right pin and the center pin of it. A bulb blowing across the primary of the Tx, is highly unlikely to have done any damage to it, and even if it had, what is going to be the problem ? An o/c primary winding ? No problem, the board just won't do anything. A s/c or shorted turns primary ? No problem - it'll just blow the mains fuse, or smoke. No matter what, it Well, today I again tracked down in the garage the path where the bulb was actually connected to: When you look at the backside of the PCB, PE is connected to the large pins 1 and 2, N(eutral) is connected to large pins 3 and 8, P(hase) is connected to the large pin 4. The bulb itself was connected to the large pins 7 (P) and 8 (N), that means that the current for the bulb is actually switched by the most left relais when you look at the frontside of the PCB. In consequence, a shorttime short circuit of the bulb might have sent a current peak via the most left relais to its +12V control input. The relais itself is triggered with +12V with this voltage to be switched to the relais via a BC237B transistor (NPN). As far as I can see from the backside of the PCB, the transistor itself is controlled by the still unknown 16-pin IC. Thatīs actually my fear that the transistor and/or the 16-pin IC could have been damaged. PCB front side: http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/3231/cimg0083kj3.jpg PCB back side: http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/1555/cimg0084qg6.jpg doesn't work now anyway, and you have no clue why unless you put some power on, and take some readings. It could be something as simple as a bad power supply circuit - one of the reccies, or the 5v regulator, or yes, the tranny even, but unless you build up the courage to put some power on and see just what's going on, you're never going to know. Anything we suggest at this point, is really just useless conjecture, yes ?? Right. So, my apologies that I didnīt had enough time before the weekend to take a deeper look into the door opener in the garage and onto the PCB again in any more detail. I know I better shouldnīt have started this thread before having myself more time to do a more detailed description of the PCB and the way the bulb was connected to it. Again, my apologies. Thanks, Joachim |
#35
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 01:44:42 +0100, Joachim Wunder
put finger to keyboard and composed: On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:27:49 +1100, Franc Zabkar wrote: On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 02:10:40 +0100, Joachim Wunder put finger to keyboard and composed: Yes, I am aware of the fact that I would need a PIC programmer and a new 8748 or 8749 PIC (Iīm still not sure which one it really is). Pretty good question where to still get such a component from, I know,... is there any equivalent PIC which offers the same pin assignment and code compatibility of a 8748/8749? I know, even I doubt that, but I better ask in this group before giving up. It could also be an 8751, although the location of the crystal would suggest a 48 or 49. You should be able to narrow down the likely contenders for the uC by determining which pins are Vcc (40?), Vdd (26?), Ground (20?), crystal (2 & 3?), reset (is there a resistor and capacitor at pin 4?). I just measured: Pin 40 is Vcc, Pin 26 is Vdd, Pin 20 is Ground, Pins 2 & 3 are crystal. At Pin 3 there is a 22 picofarad capacity as well. Between Pins 4 & 5 is a resistor with 10kOhms. I think you're right about the uC being an 8748 or 8749. I'd confirm that the reset pin (4) is not being held low by a shorted reset cap, especially if it is a tantalum type. BTW, pin 5 is connected to Vcc, so the 10K resistor is essentially a pullup. FWIW, I have some 8749 chips in my junk box. I also have a device programmer that can handle them. If you are lucky, and if the uC has dead ports but accessible EPROM, and if the security bit (?) has not been set, then I may be able to copy it for you. In the past I've been able to recover code from bad ROM versions of Intel uCs and replace them with the EPROM versions. Thanks for your very friendly offer. I just recovered my old Eprom Burner from 1992 yesterday night. Itīs a German model from www.elv.de with a separate ISA card, DOS software and an external adapter which plugs right into the ISA card with a fat ribbon cable. Unfortunately, right now I only have the 32 pin textool external adapter which is capable to mainly handly only EPROMs at sizes up to 2 MByte. Anyway, I just contacted ELV Germany and asked them whether they still have the external adapter with 40 pin textool socket. This adapter is explicitely described to be able to handle 8748/49 ĩCs in the manual of the burner. And even the old DOS software is able to handle these 8748/49 ĩCs. Thus, I will see what ELV will respond. I then may get back to your friendly offer. Thanks a mil. I have an old (1991?) Sunshine Expro-60 with an ISA controller card in an old 486 box. BTW, I'm in Australia. Oh, well. I always order most of my satellite dish from Australia. Thus, distance shouldnīt be an issue for me. *g* That's a big surprise. I would have thought these dishes were cheaper in Europe where satellite TV is much more widespread. - Franc Zabkar Kind regards Joachim - Franc Zabkar -- Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email. |
#36
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 01:03:22 +0100, Joachim Wunder
put finger to keyboard and composed: On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:27:49 +1100, Franc Zabkar wrote: On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 13:37:10 +0100, Joachim Wunder put finger to keyboard and composed: might the 16-pin IC a I2C maybe? If so, which ones were commonly used to control an Intel 8748/8749 ? I just uploaded seperate larger pics of the front and back side of the PCB: front side: http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/3231/cimg0083kj3.jpg back side: http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/1555/cimg0084qg6.jpg I am sorry to not have done that any earlier. On weekends I now have a little more time to take better pics and start any systematical diagnostic tests. There appear to be 8 or so interconnect pins at the RHS of the 16-pin IC. Can you trace them to the uC's pins? Do they go to the data bus, ie pins 12 through 19? As far as I can see Pins 12, 13 and 14 of the microcontroller are connected to the interconnect pins at the RHS of the 16-pin IC. Which pins are power and ground? Pin 8 is V_SS (GND) and Pin 16 is V_DD (+5V) as far as I measured on the 16-pin IC. What is the IC to the right of the relays? Thatīs a PHILIPS CNY17-4 Optocoupler. Which chip/component drives the relay coils? Thatīs actually a BC237B transistor each. They are hidden below the piggyback PCB, unfortunately. - Franc Zabkar Thanks Joachim AFAICT, the 16-pin IC, if the piggyback PCB faithfully mimics the pinout, has at least three outputs at pins 1,2,3, each of which drives the base of a relay driver transistor. Each pin has a pullup resistor to Vcc, so I suspect that the outputs may be open collector. Since pins 10,11,12,13 of the IC are connected to the uC's data bus, I suspect that they may be inputs. If so, then I believe that these inputs would need to be latched. The fact that there is a "VOH" on the body of the chip suggests that it might be programmed, in which case it could be a PAL. - Franc Zabkar -- Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email. |
#37
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
"Joachim Wunder" wrote in message ... On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 22:12:53 GMT, "Arfa Daily" wrote: The IC will have custom firmware on it so you won't be able to replace it. Chances are unless the regulator has failed in a short circuit and caused the voltage to rise, the chips are probably fine. Check to see if the filter capacitor is shorted, I recently repaired an old Volkswagen ECU that had a shorted electrolytic capacitor filtering the 5V output, resulting in a dead car. No, the filter capacitor is not shorted, I just measured it. Hmmm. As long ago as this was made, I2C was not a common bus scheme ( if it even existed at all ) and in any case, what would want to be communicating over such a bus in a simple door controller ?? Well, I thought it could be an A/D D/A converter from Philips maybe (like a PCF8591, for example). Or an I/O expander. But thatīs just a guess, youīre right. The regulator can be checked out of the board by applying any voltage over about 9v between the left pin ( +9 ) and the centre pin ( 0v ), and measuring the output for +5v between the right pin and the centre pin. This is with the writing towards you or metal tab away from you. However, you are never going to get to the bottom of this board's problems by being afraid of it. Well, no reason for me to be afraid anymo I already applied 230V AC to the large pins 3 & 4 on the backside of the PCB (counted from left to right on http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/1...mg0084qg6.jpg). Result: The voltage regulator is definitely not defective at all. I can read a correct output of +5V between the right pin and the center pin of it. A bulb blowing across the primary of the Tx, is highly unlikely to have done any damage to it, and even if it had, what is going to be the problem ? An o/c primary winding ? No problem, the board just won't do anything. A s/c or shorted turns primary ? No problem - it'll just blow the mains fuse, or smoke. No matter what, it Well, today I again tracked down in the garage the path where the bulb was actually connected to: When you look at the backside of the PCB, PE is connected to the large pins 1 and 2, N(eutral) is connected to large pins 3 and 8, P(hase) is connected to the large pin 4. The bulb itself was connected to the large pins 7 (P) and 8 (N), that means that the current for the bulb is actually switched by the most left relais when you look at the frontside of the PCB. In consequence, a shorttime short circuit of the bulb might have sent a current peak via the most left relais to its +12V control input. The relais itself is triggered with +12V with this voltage to be switched to the relais via a BC237B transistor (NPN). As far as I can see from the backside of the PCB, the transistor itself is controlled by the still unknown 16-pin IC. Thatīs actually my fear that the transistor and/or the 16-pin IC could have been damaged. PCB front side: http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/3231/cimg0083kj3.jpg PCB back side: http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/1555/cimg0084qg6.jpg doesn't work now anyway, and you have no clue why unless you put some power on, and take some readings. It could be something as simple as a bad power supply circuit - one of the reccies, or the 5v regulator, or yes, the tranny even, but unless you build up the courage to put some power on and see just what's going on, you're never going to know. Anything we suggest at this point, is really just useless conjecture, yes ?? Right. So, my apologies that I didnīt had enough time before the weekend to take a deeper look into the door opener in the garage and onto the PCB again in any more detail. I know I better shouldnīt have started this thread before having myself more time to do a more detailed description of the PCB and the way the bulb was connected to it. Again, my apologies. Thanks, Joachim No problem, at least we know what's going on now. I still would be reluctant to believe that the bulb is going to have done anything directly to the board, evn if it is connected to it by way of being relay switched. The relay contacts are electrically isolated from the coil by virtue of substantial mechanical separation. Now that you've got as far as putting power on the board, you should be able to look for relay drive activity, by using the test button, or by fooling the board into thinking that it's installed. Arfa |
#38
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 11:28:24 GMT, "Arfa Daily"
wrote: No problem, at least we know what's going on now. I still would be reluctant to believe that the bulb is going to have done anything directly to the board, evn if it is connected to it by way of being relay switched. The relay contacts are electrically isolated from the coil by virtue of substantial mechanical separation. Thatīs what I was convinced too up to the day when the bulb was blown for the first time. Well, Iīll tell you something, I have one sheet of paper which came with the PCB, but which only describes part of the external connectors (i.e. actually only the ones which interface to the motor on the backside of the PCB). The "funny" thing about is that this sheet shows a very rough outline of the PCBīs external connectors and mentions a fuse which is said to be there in the (N)eutral line of the PCBīs power supply. Ha! I would be glad if there was that fuse which is rated at 1A F(link). "F(link)" in German means with very quick response time. And what do I see when I look at the backside of the PCB? Ha! The manufacturer has simply left out the fuse and has soldered a piece of wire instead of the fuse holder. Well done. Now that you've got as far as putting power on the board, you should be able to look for relay drive activity, by using the test button, or by fooling the board into thinking that it's installed. Thatīs not easy to do, īcause I have no documentation of what signals the RHS large pins on the frontside of the PCB wait for. So, putting the PCB into thinking that itīs installed is not (yet) possible for me. I only know that the external remote control receiver is connected to two of these pins. Moreover, two external limit switches are connected to the other 4 pins. I first would have to find out more details measureing the switches out in the garage. Arfa Again, thanks for your kind support. Joachim |
#39
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
Joachim Wunder wrote:
On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 11:28:24 GMT, "Arfa Daily" wrote: No problem, at least we know what's going on now. I still would be reluctant to believe that the bulb is going to have done anything directly to the board, evn if it is connected to it by way of being relay switched. The relay contacts are electrically isolated from the coil by virtue of substantial mechanical separation. Thatīs what I was convinced too up to the day when the bulb was blown for the first time. Well, Iīll tell you something, I have one sheet of paper which came with the PCB, but which only describes part of the external connectors (i.e. actually only the ones which interface to the motor on the backside of the PCB). The "funny" thing about is that this sheet shows a very rough outline of the PCBīs external connectors and mentions a fuse which is said to be there in the (N)eutral line of the PCBīs power supply. Ha! I would be glad if there was that fuse which is rated at 1A F(link). "F(link)" in German means with very quick response time. And what do I see when I look at the backside of the PCB? Ha! The manufacturer has simply left out the fuse and has soldered a piece of wire instead of the fuse holder. Well done. Fuse links don't need to be actual fuses that you recognize, they can be special wire used, what looks like a resistor on the board or simply a small foil path that is 2 half-moons with a small link of foil between them.. -- "I'm never wrong, once i thought i was, but was mistaken" Real Programmers Do things like this. http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5 |
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PCB of garage door opener failed: Which PIC is this?
On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 20:37:47 +1100, Franc Zabkar
wrote: It could also be an 8751, although the location of the crystal would suggest a 48 or 49. You should be able to narrow down the likely contenders for the uC by determining which pins are Vcc (40?), Vdd (26?), Ground (20?), crystal (2 & 3?), reset (is there a resistor and capacitor at pin 4?). I just measured: Pin 40 is Vcc, Pin 26 is Vdd, Pin 20 is Ground, Pins 2 & 3 are crystal. At Pin 3 there is a 22 picofarad capacity as well. Between Pins 4 & 5 is a resistor with 10kOhms. I think you're right about the uC being an 8748 or 8749. I'd confirm that the reset pin (4) is not being held low by a shorted reset cap, especially if it is a tantalum type. BTW, pin 5 is connected to Vcc, so the 10K resistor is essentially a pullup. Ok, I just measured the 8748/49 again with my logic tester: Pin 4: HIGH, 0.000 kHz, 4,977 V Pin 5: HIGH, starting with around 700.000 kHz and then steadily dropping down to 0.439kHz, 4.987 V I hope this is a good sign for the ĩC? FWIW, I have some 8749 chips in my junk box. I also have a device programmer that can handle them. If you are lucky, and if the uC has dead ports but accessible EPROM, and if the security bit (?) has not been set, then I may be able to copy it for you. In the past I've been able to recover code from bad ROM versions of Intel uCs and replace them with the EPROM versions. Thanks for your very friendly offer. I just recovered my old Eprom Burner from 1992 yesterday night. Itīs a German model from www.elv.de with a separate ISA card, DOS software and an external adapter which plugs right into the ISA card with a fat ribbon cable. Unfortunately, right now I only have the 32 pin textool external adapter which is capable to mainly handly only EPROMs at sizes up to 2 MByte. Anyway, I just contacted ELV Germany and asked them whether they still have the external adapter with 40 pin textool socket. This adapter is explicitely described to be able to handle 8748/49 ĩCs in the manual of the burner. And even the old DOS software is able to handle these 8748/49 ĩCs. Thus, I will see what ELV will respond. I then may get back to your friendly offer. Thanks a mil. I have an old (1991?) Sunshine Expro-60 with an ISA controller card in an old 486 box. Yes, we enthusiasts never throw away these good old pieces of h/w since we know that some day weīll definitely need it again. BTW, I'm in Australia. Oh, well. I always order most of my satellite dish from Australia. Thus, distance shouldnīt be an issue for me. *g* That's a big surprise. I would have thought these dishes were cheaper in Europe where satellite TV is much more widespread. Well, the last mesh dish which I could get in Europe was a KTI CKD-12 12 feet dish 2 years ago. And this was by far more than by accident! Hehe. But when it comes to C-band feedhorns, LNBs and that stuff, there is almost no way to get anyone in Germany who is willing to import that for you. No way. Now, I have assembled the 12 ft mesh dish already, I am still investigating for a valid dual-axis-mount which is capable to withstand high windloads. And this topic is a real nightmare, believe me. But I donīt want to get any more offtopic here. Oh man... Kind regards, Joachim |
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