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| Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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Old Husband's tale
Everybody, and I mean everbody puts down a barrier so when they put a
car battery down so it's not in contact with the ground, or cement. Now normally the battery will sit on steel (in the car) which is a conductor. They say that being on the ground kills the battery. How does a nonconductor (concrete) being in contact with another nonconductor cause this ? I refuse to believe it, but I do not put said batteries on the ground. (I am a firm believer in Murphy's Law) Is this myth or mystery, and if true, just how in the hell can it be true. I'm considered pretty advanced when it comes to electronics, but this belief is so ubiquitous, that says there might be something to it. If anyone can shed some light on the process whereby the "ground" can discharge a car battery please enlighten me. I've now heard this again and have considered buying two brand new car batteries and chargers with which to gain empirical evidence. Sometimes when I get curious about something I have a hard time letting go of it. Can anyone either explain this so I can STFU, or debunk it so I can run my mouth ? I've been hearing this for about 30 years now and have dropped the subject numerous times. That is no longer good enough. Or are we talking about something like the pyramids or whatever ? I know some physics but I am by no means a physicist. I'm having a hard time believe this "myth" and I would like it cleared up in my lifetime, so I asked. Thanks to anyone that can set my mind to rest on this annoying subject. JURB |
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#2
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My suspicion is that when a battery is set down, it sits there a long time.
Long enough, and undisturbed enough, and uncharged enough that it accumulates a layer of dust and dirt, which in conjunction with moisture, slowly conducts off to the concrete floor or ground. And while a concrete floor, or dry dirt for that matter, isn't as much off a conductor as steel, it most certainly will conduct - I got nailed as a kid standing barefoot on a basement floor! So putting the battery on a 2x4 or plywood or something provides a better insulator and maybe even a better break in the dirt path.. Just my thoughts. WT wrote in message oups.com... Everybody, and I mean everbody puts down a barrier so when they put a car battery down so it's not in contact with the ground, or cement. Now normally the battery will sit on steel (in the car) which is a conductor. They say that being on the ground kills the battery. How does a nonconductor (concrete) being in contact with another nonconductor cause this ? I refuse to believe it, but I do not put said batteries on the ground. (I am a firm believer in Murphy's Law) Is this myth or mystery, and if true, just how in the hell can it be true. I'm considered pretty advanced when it comes to electronics, but this belief is so ubiquitous, that says there might be something to it. If anyone can shed some light on the process whereby the "ground" can discharge a car battery please enlighten me. I've now heard this again and have considered buying two brand new car batteries and chargers with which to gain empirical evidence. Sometimes when I get curious about something I have a hard time letting go of it. Can anyone either explain this so I can STFU, or debunk it so I can run my mouth ? I've been hearing this for about 30 years now and have dropped the subject numerous times. That is no longer good enough. Or are we talking about something like the pyramids or whatever ? I know some physics but I am by no means a physicist. I'm having a hard time believe this "myth" and I would like it cleared up in my lifetime, so I asked. Thanks to anyone that can set my mind to rest on this annoying subject. JURB |
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Travis Jordan wrote: wrote: Can anyone either explain this so I can STFU, or debunk it so I can run my mouth ? I've been hearing this for about 30 years now and have dropped the subject numerous times. That is no longer good enough. Urban myth. Google on urban myth battery concrete. Hi... Oh oh, here we go  I believe it either is or was true. I hold that the damage was caused by interaction between the very alkaline cement and the battery acid. Take care. Ken |
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#5
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In article rA9Me.222977$5V4.179143@pd7tw3no,
Ken Weitzel wrote: I hold that the damage was caused by interaction between the very alkaline cement and the battery acid. How does the acid get there? The case is acid proof, otherwise the steel it sits on in the car would corrode through in even shorter time. -- *Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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#7
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1. Urban myth
2. Alkaline cement/battery acid 3. Dust dirt and moisture 4. Basement floor CJT said he never had a problem, but didn't mention anything about time. How long ? Nobody ever said it was dead in minutes, or even hours. A buddy and I have been discussing this, after reading the responses and I can no longer summarily dismiss the effect, if the "urban legend" is indeed true. At this stage I must admit that there is a possibility. 2. A reaction between whatever solubles are in or on the cement, along with the highly acidic content of the battery housing, which has some porosity, is an interesting possibility. All of this might be enhanced in more humid climates. Even on cement, even if it doesn't rain, if left long enough metals will corrode or rust on the bottom. 3.Basement floor : While copper is an excellent conductor, cement is not. That is not to say it is a good insulator. Your legs act as wires, not very good wires, but functional enough to kill. If you are barefoot on cement, it's not making all that good of a wire either, but look at your footprint and you see the cross-sectional of this wire. A bit bigger than the wires in your basic 12-2 Romex you think ? A copper conductor of that size could carry thousands of amps. It needs alot less to burn you, or to discharge your puny battery over time.The linear resistance of a piece of wire is inversely proportional to it's cross sectional area. So what do we have here, how many ohms ? Actually I would be at a disadvantage here with my 13 wide sized feet. When I want to know if something is true I need to prove it to myself. Thanks all so far. I play Devil's advocate against my own initial point of view for that reason. All these factors are evidence that this myth might be true, but initially came from personal obsevations. Cause was attributed to effect, but the matter was not looked into further. JURB |
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Further on:
2. Alkaline cement/battery acid Most good scientists know that everything dissolves into everything, it just a matter of how fast. As some minute conductance developes through the bottom of the battery, if we are to assume this theory fact for the moment, means we must accept the possibility the earth and/or concrete which has a solid Earth ground throughout may indeed have an effect that was unforseen. It it also unreasonable to expect that there is no seepage at all in the life of these batteries. If some electrolyte soaks into the dirt, even an infinitesimal amount could it possibly be setting up cells polaraized opposing those in the battery ? This enhances whatever conduction there already is. Yet if the battery is removed you might still not see a voltage on it, because the bottom of the battery forms one of the plates of this self made battery under itself. (I think you know what I mean) I'm not saying this is true, but it is possible. JURB |
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#13
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The "old husband's tale" was once valid, but is not any longer. Not
that many years back, the standard container for lead-acid batteries was hard rubber. It was a good insulator and resistant to acid, and had the benefit of some resilience so the cases didn't crack or split at the seams. You might, with some luck, find an "antique" hiding in someone's garage and be able to inspect the casing of one of these beauties yourself, though most of yesterday's batteries have long since been recycled at the local lead smelter. The danger of concrete was not electrical in nature but rather chemical. Lime (calcium) in concrete or cement could pass through the hard rubber compound whereas the acid could not. Cold wet concrete, not unusual for a garage or driveway, set up the conditions for the lime to actually leach into the battery casing, and it would, aided (I think) by the charged ions of the electrolyte egging it on. Battery activity requires a certain concentration of the acid, measured by its specific gravity. The lime would neutralize some of the acid, altering its concentration and producing a salt which would pollute the plates of the battery. The electrolyte would have to be purged and the salts washed out before you could put fresh acid of the proper concentration in-- just a pain. Further, because the lime got permanently into the rubber itself, it was less resilient on the bottom of the battery and was more susceptible to the same pollution at a later date. Hence the battery manufacturers would warn the service-station and garage owners to always rack their batteries and not store them on the floor once they had been "filled". The military were the first to use acrylic and pvc cases for their batteries, which were often filled and ready for use many months prior to their actual use. When good strong pvc cases were economically feasible in the mid '50's (think Tupperware), the battery industry moved quickly away from rubber and into plastics. It was a good move, being at once cheaper and solving the lime-leach problem. The cases are also lighter and don't tend to expand or contract as much, important because the seal between the case and the terminal posts, which used to be a real bugaboo, is now truly tight. And the plastics transfer heat to the outside of the battery better (though now, with today's tight engine compartments, a battery over-jacket of foam rubber is sometimes needed to protect the battery from the heat of the engine!). How long would it take for a rubber-cased battery's electrolyte balance to be upset (to the point where the battery's life was significantly affected) by lime leaching in? I have no direct experience, but would guess that a couple of months would be enough. But long before that, you would probably be able to measure a voltage drop in the cells, due to a less effective concentration of electrolyte-- possibly after a week or two. In the battery biz, where you have to take ambient room temp into account when measuring a cell's specific gravity, where .5v differential between (nom.2.2v) cells can be a cause for concern about the battery's health, little things can cause a big spoil. Some of you old-timers in the telcom industry will probably remember glass jar casings for some of your huge central office batteries. They were taking no chances back then... |
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#14
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#15
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In article vXcMe.27309$vj.437@pd7tw1no,
Ken Weitzel wrote: Folks would drain fluids, remove tires and put the car up on blocks, and bring the battery inside to store in the basement. So we were talking 4 or 6 month periods. Ah. Then anything which helped protect from the cold would be a good idea. -- *Keep honking...I'm reloading. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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#16
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In article .com,
Glynn R. wrote: Some of you old-timers in the telcom industry will probably remember glass jar casings for some of your huge central office batteries. They were taking no chances back then... And this type of battery could be dismantled for repair. ;-) -- *Horn broken. - Watch for finger. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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#17
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Ken Weitzel wrote in news:vXcMe.27309$vj.437@pd7tw1no:
I fail kindergarten level chemistry, but what are those salts? Where did they come from, and what effect does their loss have on the battery? If the case is clean and dry before you set it down [most are NOT clean], there will be no such salts unless there is a crack in the case. The 'salts' you see build up around the battery are due to spills of battery acid. When the water evaporates, it will leave behind lead sulphate and perhaps some other salts, depending on how pure the water has been that was added to the battery, over the years. You can also have copper sulphate from the wires leading to the battery corroding due to the acid spills. -- bz please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an infinite set. remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap |
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#18
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Ken Weitzel wrote:
So, anyone buying a new one, with a still usuable but due for replacement, keep the old one. Put it somewhere safe on the newest cement available. Keep the kids safe, put it perhaps on a garage floor. Leave it alone for a month or two, then take a good look at it. The case _will_ be covered with salts. As part of PM I change 1 or 2 batteries a year... the price of owing too much stuff. I ALWAYS keep the freshest (old) batteries for emergency use with 12VDC powered radios. So I have done exactly the experiment you propose. The old batteries sit directly on my garage floor. I never see any salts or other deposits on them. |
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article rA9Me.222977$5V4.179143@pd7tw3no, Ken Weitzel wrote: I hold that the damage was caused by interaction between the very alkaline cement and the battery acid. How does the acid get there? The case is acid proof, otherwise the steel it sits on in the car would corrode through in even shorter time. Aren't all car batteries, even maint. free ones vented? I believe that along with the hydrogen gas a small amount of vaporized acid can escape from the battery's vent allowing it to settle on nearby surfaces such as the outside of the case. |
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In article y9oMe.1223$yb.39@trndny07,
Jumpster Jiver wrote: How does the acid get there? The case is acid proof, otherwise the steel it sits on in the car would corrode through in even shorter time. Aren't all car batteries, even maint. free ones vented? I believe that along with the hydrogen gas a small amount of vaporized acid can escape from the battery's vent allowing it to settle on nearby surfaces such as the outside of the case. There should be minimal gassing with a modern charging system. And most recent cars I've seen have a vent tube to take the fumes away from where they could do mischief in the event this occurs. -- Is the hardness of the butter proportional to the softness of the bread?* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 16:05:50 GMT Jumpster Jiver
wrote: Aren't all car batteries, even maint. free ones vented? I believe that along with the hydrogen gas a small amount of vaporized acid can escape from the battery's vent allowing it to settle on nearby surfaces such as the outside of the case. This is probably true to some small extent, but even then, any reaction that takes place is on the outside of the battery and doesn't affect what's inside. - ----------------------------------------------- Jim Adney Madison, WI 53711 USA ----------------------------------------------- |
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On 15 Aug 2005 19:35:51 -0700 wrote:
2. A reaction between whatever solubles are in or on the cement, along with the highly acidic content of the battery housing, which has some porosity, is an interesting possibility. The case is not acidic, so case contact with the floor can't be the problem. Reaction of the acid with something from the floor that gets in the air and then into the battery MIGHT be a possibility, but then the people who say this happens, also claim that just putting the battery on a small square of wood (on top of the concrete) prevents the problem, even though it would not change anything that comes off teh concrete and gets into the air. 3.Basement floor : While copper is an excellent conductor, cement is not. That is not to say it is a good insulator. Your legs act as wires, not very good wires, but functional enough to kill. If you are barefoot on cement, it's not making all that good of a wire either, but look at your footprint and you see the cross-sectional of this wire. A bit bigger than the wires in your basic 12-2 Romex you think ? A copper conductor of that size could carry thousands of amps. It needs alot less to burn you, or to discharge your puny battery over time.The linear resistance of a piece of wire is inversely proportional to it's cross sectional area. So what do we have here, how many ohms ? There is certaily self discharge between the battery posts, and keeping the top of the battery clean minimizes this. Dirt and moisture on the battery case will decrease the resistance and increase the rate of discharge. Putting the battery on moist concrete will make this slightly worse, but putting it on the steel battery tray in the car would be even worse, contrary to what is reported. Actually I would be at a disadvantage here with my 13 wide sized feet. ;-) - ----------------------------------------------- Jim Adney Madison, WI 53711 USA ----------------------------------------------- |
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On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 03:19:55 GMT, Ken Weitzel
wrote: wrote: 1. Urban myth 2. Alkaline cement/battery acid 3. Dust dirt and moisture 4. Basement floor CJT said he never had a problem, but didn't mention anything about time. How long ? Nobody ever said it was dead in minutes, or even hours. A buddy and I have been discussing this, after reading the responses and I can no longer summarily dismiss the effect, if the "urban legend" is indeed true. At this stage I must admit that there is a possibility. 2. A reaction between whatever solubles are in or on the cement, along with the highly acidic content of the battery housing, which has some porosity, is an interesting possibility. All of this might be enhanced in more humid climates. Even on cement, even if it doesn't rain, if left long enough metals will corrode or rust on the bottom. 3.Basement floor : While copper is an excellent conductor, cement is not. That is not to say it is a good insulator. Your legs act as wires, not very good wires, but functional enough to kill. If you are barefoot on cement, it's not making all that good of a wire either, but look at your footprint and you see the cross-sectional of this wire. A bit bigger than the wires in your basic 12-2 Romex you think ? A copper conductor of that size could carry thousands of amps. It needs alot less to burn you, or to discharge your puny battery over time.The linear resistance of a piece of wire is inversely proportional to it's cross sectional area. So what do we have here, how many ohms ? Actually I would be at a disadvantage here with my 13 wide sized feet. When I want to know if something is true I need to prove it to myself. Thanks all so far. I play Devil's advocate against my own initial point of view for that reason. All these factors are evidence that this myth might be true, but initially came from personal obsevations. Cause was attributed to effect, but the matter was not looked into further. Hi... First - the story never ever called for hours, or minutes. Being perhaps the "old guy", I believe it came from those "olden" days when cars were put aside for the winter. (at least here in Winnipeg (Winterpeg) Canada, where we get more than our share of -40 degree days. Folks would drain fluids, remove tires and put the car up on blocks, and bring the battery inside to store in the basement. So we were talking 4 or 6 month periods. Second - in support of my position, I invite an experiment from any who are willing and in a position to do it. Those of us who change our own batteries pay a 5 dollar deposit when we buy a new one, refundable whenever we return the dud. I suspect not many would suffer much were they to do without that 5 bucks for a month or two. So, anyone buying a new one, with a still usuable but due for replacement, keep the old one. Put it somewhere safe on the newest cement available. Keep the kids safe, put it perhaps on a garage floor. Leave it alone for a month or two, then take a good look at it. The case _will_ be covered with salts. I fail kindergarten level chemistry, but what are those salts? Where did they come from, and what effect does their loss have on the battery? Let us know; then take the battery back for your 5 bucks Take care. Ken I've worked with rechargeable batteries for many a moon and in my past experience have seen batteries that weren't properly isolated from ground contact drain much faster than those that were placed on rubber mats or insulated storage boxes. It includes nicads as well as traditional lead-acid.(including gel or dry cell.) When I worked in service as a photographer rechargeable modules were the lifeblood of virtually every type of photographic system we employed. From regular hand held cameras and strobe equipment the belly cameras on recon aircraft. We had a entire section of every ground base lab devoted to service and charging of all the various types of batteries we used. The one cardinal rule we had for batteries was never to leave them sitting on bare ground or concrete. Many of the larger modules even had their own storage cases, usually steel with a rubber coating inside. I distinctly recall on lab I transferred to having problems with the battey modules for their strobes suffering from short charge life and early death. They'd be charged every evening by the nigh****ch and stored in a metal storage locker for use by morning crews the following day. The locker sat on a bare concrete floor and the plastic encased modules were simply stacked onto the painted shelves of the locker. None of the battery contacts came in contact with any conductive suface but if left on the bare shelves of the locker would would completely discharge in about 3 days or less. I ran a test by placing a fully charged battery in a heavy plastic bag and left it in the locker for a week, with another charged module sitting right next to it on the shelf. The bagged battery retained nearly all it's charge, the bare one was dead. After that we used a heavy plastic case with rubber mat to store the batteries and the problem was resolved. I've been told by those more knowledgeable than I in matters of storage devices that there are instances where batteries can discharge due to grounding. I'm told it has something to do with relative humidity, also that sea air also promotes rapid discharge as well.(salt in the air?) My old man was an electrician who served his time on diesel boats.(submarines) and he was a big believer in isolating batteries from ground as well. |
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On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 00:12:38 GMT, CJT wrote:
wrote: Everybody, and I mean everbody puts down a barrier so when they put a car battery down so it's not in contact with the ground, or cement. Now normally the battery will sit on steel (in the car) which is a conductor. Yes but the car has four rubber insulators it sits on, the tires. They say that being on the ground kills the battery. How does a nonconductor (concrete) being in contact with another nonconductor cause this ? I refuse to believe it, but I do not put said batteries on the ground. (I am a firm believer in Murphy's Law) Is this myth or mystery, and if true, just how in the hell can it be true. I'm considered pretty advanced when it comes to electronics, but this belief is so ubiquitous, that says there might be something to it. If anyone can shed some light on the process whereby the "ground" can discharge a car battery please enlighten me. I've now heard this again and have considered buying two brand new car batteries and chargers with which to gain empirical evidence. Sometimes when I get curious about something I have a hard time letting go of it. Can anyone either explain this so I can STFU, or debunk it so I can run my mouth ? I've been hearing this for about 30 years now and have dropped the subject numerous times. That is no longer good enough. Or are we talking about something like the pyramids or whatever ? I know some physics but I am by no means a physicist. I'm having a hard time believe this "myth" and I would like it cleared up in my lifetime, so I asked. Thanks to anyone that can set my mind to rest on this annoying subject. JURB I set them on the ground all the time and never noticed a problem. |
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"Stirring the solution,
would make for a much more uniform discharge curve. " We've done some automotive work an I've noticed that nothing quite charges a battery like a car, perhaps because it moves ? When we had a severely depleted battery on charge we would agitate it every few hours and at that time the ammeter reading would increase. I guess it knocked the bubbles off of the plates ? JURB |
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#27
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On 17 Aug 2005 16:28:28 -0700 wrote:
"Stirring the solution, would make for a much more uniform discharge curve. " We've done some automotive work an I've noticed that nothing quite charges a battery like a car, perhaps because it moves ? When we had a severely depleted battery on charge we would agitate it every few hours and at that time the ammeter reading would increase. I guess it knocked the bubbles off of the plates ? Both of these theories sound plausible to me. It could be bubbles, which form once the cell voltage reaches 2.4V, but I suspect that agitation is a more likely reason. Both probably play some part. - ----------------------------------------------- Jim Adney Madison, WI 53711 USA ----------------------------------------------- |
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article rA9Me.222977$5V4.179143@pd7tw3no, Ken Weitzel wrote: I hold that the damage was caused by interaction between the very alkaline cement and the battery acid. How does the acid get there? The case is acid proof, otherwise the steel it sits on in the car would corrode through in even shorter time. -- *Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. Early car batteries had molded hard rubber cases that were less than perfect when it came to leaks. There is a 1/4" of concrete missing in the driveway next door where an old battery froze and developed hairline cracks. A month later the concrete around the battery was badly etched, and had had the 1/4" missing. -- Link to my "Computers for disabled Veterans" project website deleted after threats were telephoned to my church. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
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On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 00:40:18 GMT "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote: Early car batteries had molded hard rubber cases that were less than perfect when it came to leaks. There is a 1/4" of concrete missing in the driveway next door where an old battery froze and developed hairline cracks. A month later the concrete around the battery was badly etched, and had had the 1/4" missing. I don't think there is any disagreement that a battery with a cracked case will discharge, on concrete or elsewhere. It's pretty clear that the question is in regard to a battery in good condition. - ----------------------------------------------- Jim Adney Madison, WI 53711 USA ----------------------------------------------- |
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In article ,
Michael A. Terrell wrote: How does the acid get there? The case is acid proof, otherwise the steel it sits on in the car would corrode through in even shorter time. Early car batteries had molded hard rubber cases that were less than perfect when it came to leaks. Possibly, which still makes it an old husband's tale since rubber hasn't been used for many a year - apart from on period batteries for classics, etc. There is a 1/4" of concrete missing in the driveway next door where an old battery froze and developed hairline cracks. Well it cracked and leaked. Batteries should be protected from freezing in any eventuality. A month later the concrete around the battery was badly etched, and had had the 1/4" missing. -- *Virtual reality is its own reward* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
Well it cracked and leaked. Batteries should be protected from freezing in any eventuality. I agree, but the old man who lived there was in the care of Hospice, and died that winter. I offered to take care of his place but he didn't want anyone touching anything, which isn't uncommon around here with someone in their 80s. -- Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
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#33
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" bravely wrote to "All" (15 Aug 05 16:01:44)
--- on the heady topic of "Old Husband's tale" I had it explained to me that the difference in temperature between the cement and ambient air causes a vertical specific density difference in the electrolyte. This effect results in an a emf between the top and bottom of the plates which being conductive allows the usual battery chemical reaction to take place. Thus the battery slowly discharges over a period of many months (6 or more). My thinking is that the black case exacerbates the problem by thermal emission and perhaps a white case would be less prone to the effect. BTW I've seen batteries in white cases. Anyhow, one idea I have had is to cover the terminals with their plastic caps then cover the top with a plastic bag and wrap the whole battery in aluminum foil. The idea being to force the battery temperature to be equal between top and bottom due to the good thermal conduction of the aluminum wrapping. Perhaps wrapping insulation around the battery would be just as good. But it's just an untested theory. A*s*i*m*o*v ZZ From: ZZ Xref: core-easynews sci.electronics.repair:339749 ZZ Everybody, and I mean everbody puts down a barrier so when they put a ZZ car battery down so it's not in contact with the ground, or cement. ZZ Now normally the battery will sit on steel (in the car) which is a ZZ conductor. ZZ They say that being on the ground kills the battery. How does a ZZ nonconductor (concrete) being in contact with another nonconductor ZZ cause this ? I refuse to believe it, but I do not put said batteries ZZ on the ground. (I am a firm believer in Murphy's Law) ZZ Is this myth or mystery, and if true, just how in the hell can it be ZZ true. I'm considered pretty advanced when it comes to electronics, but ZZ this belief is so ubiquitous, that says there might be something to ZZ it. ZZ If anyone can shed some light on the process whereby the "ground" can ZZ discharge a car battery please enlighten me. I've now heard this again ZZ and have considered buying two brand new car batteries and chargers ZZ with which to gain empirical evidence. Sometimes when I get curious ZZ about something I have a hard time letting go of it. ZZ Can anyone either explain this so I can STFU, or debunk it so I can ZZ run my mouth ? I've been hearing this for about 30 years now and have ZZ dropped the subject numerous times. That is no longer good enough. ZZ Or are we talking about something like the pyramids or whatever ? I ZZ know some physics but I am by no means a physicist. I'm having a hard ZZ time believe this "myth" and I would like it cleared up in my ZZ lifetime, so I asked. ZZ Thanks to anyone that can set my mind to rest on this annoying ZZ subject. ZZ JURB .... Chico of Borg: "Resistance? Atsa no good!" |
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#34
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Asimov wrote:
I had it explained to me that the difference in temperature between the cement and ambient air causes a vertical specific density difference in the electrolyte. This effect results in an a emf between the top and bottom of the plates which being conductive allows the usual battery chemical reaction to take place. Thus the battery slowly discharges over a period of many months (6 or more). Are we still hashing through this? Did I miss the post where it said "Check with the battery manufacturers" or "Check with someone who actually knows"? This myth is so pervasive that most battery manufacturers include it in their FAQ section. The universal statement? Storing on concrete does not increase the self-discharge rate of a battery, unless the battery is in a wooden case, ca. 1910. http://www.exideworld.com/faq/faq_marine.html#concrete http://www.trojanbattery.com/Tech-Support/FAQ.aspx http://www.ibsa.com/www_2001/content...tech_maint.htm http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/...4.htm#concrete etc etc etc Or just Google "lead-acid battery concrete discharge" for 38,000 hits on how this is not true. Bill |
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"Bill Jeffrey" bravely wrote to "All" (29 Sep 05 20:09:45)
--- on the heady topic of " Old Husband's tale" BJ From: Bill Jeffrey BJ Xref: core-easynews sci.electronics.repair:343536 BJ Asimov wrote: I had it explained to me that the difference in temperature BJ Are we still hashing through this? I appologize to all for the sudden rash of replies. I don't know what happened but my replies over the past few weeks have been in a logjam and today suddenly they all got sent. Please, don't reply to any that are not relevant, thank you. A*s*i*m*o*v .... If plugging it in doesn't help, turn it on. |
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Asimov wrote:
I appologize to all for the sudden rash of replies. I don't know what happened but my replies over the past few weeks have been in a logjam and today suddenly they all got sent. Please, don't reply to any that are not relevant, thank you. Did your levee break? -- If John McCain gets the 2008 Republican Presidential nomination, my vote for President will be a write-in for Jiang Zemin. |
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"clifto" bravely wrote to "All" (30 Sep 05 12:55:43)
--- on the heady topic of " Old Husband's tale" cl From: clifto cl Xref: core-easynews sci.electronics.repair:343677 cl Asimov wrote: I appologize to all for the sudden rash of replies. I don't know what happened but my replies over the past few weeks have been in a logjam and today suddenly they all got sent. Please, don't reply to any that are not relevant, thank you. cl Did your levee break? Thanks, looks like everything is back to normal again. (And... please, no comments from the peanut gallery. ;-) A*s*i*m*o*v .... Techs would rather pee on an electric fence for the light show |
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