Hi,

One of those Victor Meldrew moments.....

We bought some fitted bedroom units from MFI in March this year. I
declined their offer to fit them since it would cost almost as much as
the units themselves! (and this is a diy group ;-)

Needless to say during fitting I discovered that the line of units
were actually _longer_ than my bedroom wall! At first I though I had
made a mistake but, no, they did not fit.

I telephoned the store and they admitted they had made a mistake in
the design. I visited the store to sort it out but, by then, they had
changed their minds and told me I would have to cut things down and
leave out panels to fit it. I did not agree to this but all they
would do was arrange a site visit.

Of course no-one turned up as arranged so I decided to resort to pen
and paper and wrote to the MFI branch and their head office asking
them to sort it out. They did not reply to either letter so I wrote a
strong legal style letter, sent registered post. They did not reply
to this either!!!!!!

" I DON'T BELIEVE IT!"

I am so annoyed with MFI at the moment that I thought I would recount
my tale to as many people as possible. If, by chance, they decide to
take their business elsewhere I would not be dissapointed ;-)

The irony is that this situation could have been sorted out quickly
and easily at the beginning. However now I intend to use the law to
its full to obtain as much out of them as possible.

Mark.

And good luck to you Mark !!!



"R" wrote in message
news
Hi,

One of those Victor Meldrew moments.....

We bought some fitted bedroom units from MFI in March this year. I
declined their offer to fit them since it would cost almost as much as
the units themselves! (and this is a diy group ;-)

Needless to say during fitting I discovered that the line of units
were actually _longer_ than my bedroom wall! At first I though I had
made a mistake but, no, they did not fit.

I telephoned the store and they admitted they had made a mistake in
the design. I visited the store to sort it out but, by then, they had
changed their minds and told me I would have to cut things down and
leave out panels to fit it. I did not agree to this but all they
would do was arrange a site visit.

Of course no-one turned up as arranged so I decided to resort to pen
and paper and wrote to the MFI branch and their head office asking
them to sort it out. They did not reply to either letter so I wrote a
strong legal style letter, sent registered post. They did not reply
to this either!!!!!!

" I DON'T BELIEVE IT!"

I am so annoyed with MFI at the moment that I thought I would recount
my tale to as many people as possible. If, by chance, they decide to
take their business elsewhere I would not be dissapointed ;-)

The irony is that this situation could have been sorted out quickly
and easily at the beginning. However now I intend to use the law to
its full to obtain as much out of them as possible.

Mark.

R wrote:

We bought some fitted bedroom units from MFI in March this year. I
declined their offer to fit them since it would cost almost as much as
the units themselves! (and this is a diy group ;-)

Needless to say during fitting I discovered that the line of units
were actually _longer_ than my bedroom wall! At first I though I had
made a mistake but, no, they did not fit.

I telephoned the store and they admitted they had made a mistake in
the design.

Don't geddit, how come it's their fault? I must be missing something
here. Or are you saying their brochure had the wrong dimensions printed
in it or something?

David

In article , Lobster
wrote:
Don't geddit, how come it's their fault? I must be missing
something here. Or are you saying their brochure had the wrong
dimensions printed in it or something?

I read it as the OP went along to the store with his room dimensions
and the 'consultant' said "you need x, y and z" which now don't
actually fit.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm
[Latest version QSEDBUK 1.10 released 4 April 2005]

"Tony Bryer" wrote:
In article , Lobster
wrote:
Don't geddit, how come it's their fault? I must be missing
something here. Or are you saying their brochure had the wrong
dimensions printed in it or something?

I read it as the OP went along to the store with his room dimensions
and the 'consultant' said "you need x, y and z" which now don't
actually fit.

ISTR that when I did this with a kitchen, the responsibility
was on me to make sure the stuff would fit unless they had
done a site visit and were going to fit it. I think I even had
to tick a box to that effect on the order form as well. I could
have imagined this though.

Al

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 18:35:29 GMT, Lobster
wrote:

R wrote:

We bought some fitted bedroom units from MFI in March this year. I
declined their offer to fit them since it would cost almost as much as
the units themselves! (and this is a diy group ;-)

Needless to say during fitting I discovered that the line of units
were actually _longer_ than my bedroom wall! At first I though I had
made a mistake but, no, they did not fit.

I telephoned the store and they admitted they had made a mistake in
the design.

Don't geddit, how come it's their fault? I must be missing something
here. Or are you saying their brochure had the wrong dimensions printed
in it or something?

It wasn't designed from a brochure. They have a CAD (Computer Aided
Design) package. I gave them the room dimensions. They 'designed' a
layout which looked fine on the computer. They printed out some nice
3D pictures of how the room would look etc. They charged us and
supplied the units for me to install. It's all modular flat-pack
stuff.

However the units would take up more space than the size of the room.
i.e. They don't fit. Since they designed it and were given accurate
room dimensions then how could it not be their fault?

The only mistake I made is shopping at MFI. I won't make the same
mistake ever again.

Mark.

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 19:51:54 +0100, Tony Bryer
wrote:

In article , Lobster
wrote:
Don't geddit, how come it's their fault? I must be missing
something here. Or are you saying their brochure had the wrong
dimensions printed in it or something?

I read it as the OP went along to the store with his room dimensions
and the 'consultant' said "you need x, y and z" which now don't
actually fit.

Yes. That's about it -- but they used a computer!

Mark.

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 21:39:39 +0100, R wrote:

It wasn't designed from a brochure. They have a CAD (Computer Aided
Design) package. I gave them the room dimensions. They 'designed' a
layout which looked fine on the computer. They printed out some nice
3D pictures of how the room would look etc. They charged us and
supplied the units for me to install. It's all modular flat-pack
stuff.

However the units would take up more space than the size of the room.
i.e. They don't fit. Since they designed it and were given accurate
room dimensions then how could it not be their fault?

The chances are very much that it *is* their fault but you may find in
the small print somewhere that they waive responsibility if *you* do
the measurements?

Whilst we were having an extension put on this house I fitted double
glazed windows. Most of the holes existed but many didn't (not built
yet) so for those I had wooden frames made up to the appropriate
sizes. I then got *their* guy in to measure all the holes / frames so
there could be no issues when I came to fit them (and this was agreed
in writing and it worked) and the builders built the openings round
the frames.

I helped a mate fit 8 dg windows and he did all the measurement's
himself (with me double checking afterwards as their consultant wanted
£500 or summat). The supplier made him sign a disclaimer saying that
if the frames didn't fit (but were correct to his dimensions) it was
his hard luck. As it turned out they were all fine (including a bay)
phew. ;-)

The only mistake I made is shopping at MFI. I won't make the same
mistake ever again.

I nearly fitted my kitchen out with MFI units (15+ years ago) using
their "Schreiber" range. I ended up going for the basic models of the
real "Schreiber" stuff (at a bit more money) because of the better CS?

For your claim to stick you may have to pay for an 'independent' guy
to come round and conform your dimensions are correct. All the best
with your claim though ..

T i m

In message , T i m
writes
On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 21:39:39 +0100, R wrote:

It wasn't designed from a brochure. They have a CAD (Computer Aided
Design) package. I gave them the room dimensions. They 'designed' a
layout which looked fine on the computer. They printed out some nice
3D pictures of how the room would look etc. They charged us and
supplied the units for me to install. It's all modular flat-pack
stuff.

However the units would take up more space than the size of the room.
i.e. They don't fit. Since they designed it and were given accurate
room dimensions then how could it not be their fault?

The chances are very much that it *is* their fault but you may find in
the small print somewhere that they waive responsibility if *you* do
the measurements?

Surely only if the given measurements are wrong

If the correct measurements were presented and someone at MFI messed up,
then they are legally responsible

--
geoff

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 22:07:02 GMT, raden wrote:


The chances are very much that it *is* their fault but you may find in
the small print somewhere that they waive responsibility if *you* do
the measurements?

Surely only if the given measurements are wrong

If the correct measurements were presented and someone at MFI messed up,
then they are legally responsible

Indeed, but the OP may need to get a 3rd party to give evidence of
such if they were to take it further?

Even with such couldn't it end up with his words against theirs?

MFI .. "We worked on the information given" (even if it wasn't) etc?

I suppose with these things the outcome often depends if you are lucky
and get a friendly ear in the first place .. before it get's out of
hand ..;-(

All the best ..

T i m

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 23:23:18 GMT, T i m wrote:

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 22:07:02 GMT, raden wrote:


The chances are very much that it *is* their fault but you may find in
the small print somewhere that they waive responsibility if *you* do
the measurements?

Surely only if the given measurements are wrong

If I had given the wrong measurements then I would agree it was my
fault. However I gave them the correct measurements and they still
have a photocopy of my original drawing complete with dimensions.
I was very careful in this matter. If you add up the 'book'
dimensions of the units then they are several cm longer than the room.

(The fitting instructions also state that the units can be fitted with
or without without skirting boards, so the former would reduce the
available space even more. However this is irrelevant really.)

If the correct measurements were presented and someone at MFI messed up,
then they are legally responsible

Indeed, but the OP may need to get a 3rd party to give evidence of
such if they were to take it further?

Even with such couldn't it end up with his words against theirs?

MFI .. "We worked on the information given" (even if it wasn't) etc?

It would be useful at this stage to get _any_ response from MFI. They
have ignored all my letters.

I suppose with these things the outcome often depends if you are lucky
and get a friendly ear in the first place .. before it get's out of
hand ..;-(

Too late now!

All the best ..

Thanks. I'll be in touch with trading standards again today. I hope
this will kick MFI into action.

Mark.

On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 09:31:13 +0100, R wrote:


If I had given the wrong measurements then I would agree it was my
fault. However I gave them the correct measurements and they still
have a photocopy of my original drawing complete with dimensions.

That's good .. if they are holding evedence against themselves ;-)

I was very careful in this matter. If you add up the 'book'
dimensions of the units then they are several cm longer than the room.

So it was the person that programmed their CAD package that put in (or
was given) some wrong numbers in the first place?

It would be useful at this stage to get _any_ response from MFI. They
have ignored all my letters.

That's the most frustrating bit isn't it, when you have a genuine
issue (that's their fault) and you can't get through to anyone ..
sigh[1]

Let's hope TS get things moving for you .. ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

The chances are very much that it *is* their fault but you may find in
the small print somewhere that they waive responsibility if *you* do
the measurements?

IANAL, advice is worth what was paid for it.

You'd have a substantial chance of getting such a clause struck off, as it
is of sufficient unreasonableness IMO, to have required being brought to the
OP's attention.

They have contracted to do the design work. The design work (provided it can
be proved that measurements were correct) is demonstrably unsound. Clear
breach of contract.

Christian.

On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 09:13:05 GMT, T i m wrote:

On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 09:31:13 +0100, R wrote:


If I had given the wrong measurements then I would agree it was my
fault. However I gave them the correct measurements and they still
have a photocopy of my original drawing complete with dimensions.

That's good .. if they are holding evedence against themselves ;-)

I was very careful in this matter. If you add up the 'book'
dimensions of the units then they are several cm longer than the room.

So it was the person that programmed their CAD package that put in (or
was given) some wrong numbers in the first place?

It would be useful at this stage to get _any_ response from MFI. They
have ignored all my letters.

That's the most frustrating bit isn't it, when you have a genuine
issue (that's their fault) and you can't get through to anyone ..
sigh[1]

Let's hope TS get things moving for you .. ;-)

They've advised me to write yet another letter and give MFI even more
time to resolve the issue :-( I'm very sceptical about this since I
have received no reply from 3 letters so I don't understand how
another one would help. Oh well I'd better go ahead.

Cheers, Mark.

On Thu, 4 Aug 2005 10:35:21 +0100, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

The chances are very much that it *is* their fault but you may find in
the small print somewhere that they waive responsibility if *you* do
the measurements?

IANAL, advice is worth what was paid for it.

I think there is such a thing as valuable free advice Christian .. re
the majority of such seen on this ng ;-)

You'd have a substantial chance of getting such a clause struck off, as it
is of sufficient unreasonableness IMO, to have required being brought to the
OP's attention.

Indeed, but not impossible from a 'shed'? The place that made the
windows to my mates dimensions *did* make it very clear that if they
did not do the measuring they couldn't be held responsible for the fit
(but would g'tee to make the frames to his dims of course). In the
OP's case his measurements were correct and they made a mistake. I
guess their first response to a non-fit could well be 'well you must
of measured it wrong, so not our problem' (no so in this case but I
guess this must happen all the time).

They have contracted to do the design work.

We took some dimensions into a Magnet store once, they 'designed' a
kitchen for us (PC prog) and printed a copy for us to take away (all
free). Had I bought and attempted to install a kitchen based on their
design and it not fit, would they be responsible (genuine question)?

The design work (provided it can
be proved that measurements were correct) is demonstrably unsound. Clear
breach of contract.

A follow up from the op mentioned that MFI admit to having copies of
the orig (correct) dimensions so if they still surrender this info to
(say) TS if requested then they will (may .. see disclaimers etc) have
shot themselves in the foot. But what if such paperwork gets 'lost'
when requested (in spite of the store admitting on the phone to having
made the 'mistake')?

Maybe MFI (will formally) admit they are in the wrong and know it's
down to them to resolve but are just being 'akward / slow' about it?
(If I bury my head in the sand it might go away sort of thing) ?

FWIWIANAL either ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

T i m wrote:

The chances are very much that it *is* their fault but you may find in
the small print somewhere that they waive responsibility if *you* do
the measurements?

I wouldn't be surprised either, but surely to God they couldn't pull
that one if said measurements were done correctly (and can be proved to
have been

David)

On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 13:05:35 GMT, Lobster
wrote:

T i m wrote:

The chances are very much that it *is* their fault but you may find in
the small print somewhere that they waive responsibility if *you* do
the measurements?

I wouldn't be surprised either, but surely to God they couldn't pull
that one if said measurements were done correctly (and can be proved to
have been

David)

Well, indeed David but they have his money and he has perfect but
unsuitable goods.

You would have thought that these days (especially) these Co's would
bend over backwars to keep out custom but it would seem that often
they don't.

I ordered a £100 printer from Dabs and a week later nothing. I checked
on their web sire and the order was 'pending' (they had stock etc).

I sent several emails asking for an update (you couldn't phone them)
but nothing .. so the last email said summat like "if you are unable
to process this order promptly I will be forced to cancel" and that
one got a reply, with a 'canceling your order' link attached .. ??

All the best ..

T i m

p.s. I believe the 'reason' the order wasn't processed was that I had
requested the item to be delivered to alternative address (an option
on their ordering form) and the credit card ordering rules had changed
or summat .. had they not had the option on the eform we might have
been ok ... ? I drove to Watford Electronics and bought it from them
instead ;-)

In message , R
writes

Let's hope TS get things moving for you .. ;-)

They've advised me to write yet another letter and give MFI even more
time to resolve the issue :-( I'm very sceptical about this since I
have received no reply from 3 letters so I don't understand how
another one would help. Oh well I'd better go ahead.

If you do this give them a reasonable time limit (14 days?) and tell
them if not resolved you will make claim in the small claims court.
Seeing as you bought it from a store I would probably take it and see
the manager directly

Did you use a credit card to purchase these (even just for a deposit)

If so at this point I'd make a claim against them
--
Chris French

In article ,
says...
They've advised me to write yet another letter and give MFI even more
time to resolve the issue :-( I'm very sceptical about this since I
have received no reply from 3 letters so I don't understand how
another one would help. Oh well I'd better go ahead.

Make sure you cc the letter to Trading Standards, using the name of
the TS individual you spoke to. And as others have said, give them a
time *limit* within which you expect the problem to be resolved.

--
Hedgehog

On Thu, 4 Aug 2005 14:47:35 +0100, chris French
wrote:

In message , R
writes

Let's hope TS get things moving for you .. ;-)

They've advised me to write yet another letter and give MFI even more
time to resolve the issue :-( I'm very sceptical about this since I
have received no reply from 3 letters so I don't understand how
another one would help. Oh well I'd better go ahead.

If you do this give them a reasonable time limit (14 days?) and tell
them if not resolved you will make claim in the small claims court.

I have already threatened court action in a previous letter and given
them 7 more days to do something. However I was advised today by
Consumer Direct[1] to write again and give MFI 7 more days. As CD
know the law[2] better than me I am following their advice.

Seeing as you bought it from a store I would probably take it and see
the manager directly

I have asked to see the manager but maybe he's too scared to see me
:-)

Did you use a credit card to purchase these (even just for a deposit)

If so at this point I'd make a claim against them

[1] Calls to our Trading Standards seem to be automatically forwarded
onto "Consumer Direct" which seems to be a "dumbed down" version of
the old TS. In the past TS have helped me by actually telephoning the
organisation which has spurred them into action (not MFI!). CD won't
do this.

[2] Maybe.

Mark.

On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 13:05:35 GMT, Lobster
wrote:

T i m wrote:

The chances are very much that it *is* their fault but you may find in
the small print somewhere that they waive responsibility if *you* do
the measurements?

I wouldn't be surprised either, but surely to God they couldn't pull
that one if said measurements were done correctly (and can be proved to
have been

I know of no such "small print" in the contract. I have had no
response at all from MFI so I have no idea what their position is.

Mark.

In message , R
writes
I have asked to see the manager but maybe he's too scared to see me
:-)

Go there just before it closes and sit down and refuse to move.
--
Chris French

R wrote:
On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 13:05:35 GMT, Lobster
wrote:

T i m wrote:

The chances are very much that it *is* their fault but you may find
in the small print somewhere that they waive responsibility if
*you* do the measurements?

I wouldn't be surprised either, but surely to God they couldn't pull
that one if said measurements were done correctly (and can be proved
to have been

I know of no such "small print" in the contract. I have had no
response at all from MFI so I have no idea what their position is.


Go sit in the bit of MFI where they do their designing and warn people who
bring measurements in.

All day. Every day.