Saw this story on the newswi
http://abcnews.go.com/US/print?id=552076

Man Shoots Eye With Nail Gun, Pulls It Out
Construction Worker Accidentally Shoots Himself in the Eye With Nail
Gun, Then Pulls It Out

The Associated Press
Mar. 4, 2005 - A construction worker accidentally shot himself in the
eye with a nail gun and then pulled the 2 1/2-inch nail out of his
face, according to a police report and a co-worker.

Joseluis Franco, 19, was using an air-powered, Hitachi nail gun to
help build a home Wednesday when a nail bounced back and lodged in his
eye, crew leader Rogelio Ocampo said. Franco was nailing a two-by-four
to concrete when the nail ricocheted.

Franco was conscious when police arrived at the scene and was taken to
St. Mary's Medical Center in West Palm Beach, where he was treated and
released. Police said Friday they don't know the condition of Franco's
eye.

Originally from a town near Acapulco, Mexico, Franco has been in the
construction business for about three weeks, Ocampo said.

"I don't know what's going to happen to him," Ocampo said. "I don't
know if the insurance is going to cover his bills or anything."
__________________________________________________ ____


There seems to be a high rate of these nail gun accidents
happening lately. Kind of makes me glad that I don't own a
nail gun.

JIM

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 16:38:26 -0600, JIM wrote:

There seems to be a high rate of these nail gun accidents
happening lately. Kind of makes me glad that I don't own a
nail gun.

More to the point, be grateful you aren't ill-trained or an idiot,
which seem to be the major contributing factor in most nail-gun
accidents (well, most accidents, period, as far as that goes).

"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

JIM wrote:
Franco was conscious when police arrived at the scene and was taken to
St. Mary's Medical Center in West Palm Beach, where he was treated and
released. Police said Friday they don't know the condition of Franco's
eye.


I'll bet I do.


Originally from a town near Acapulco, Mexico, Franco has been in the
construction business for about three weeks, Ocampo said.


He probably ought to consider another line of work. I don't think he has the
aptitude for this one.


"I don't know what's going to happen to him," Ocampo said. "I don't
know if the insurance is going to cover his bills or anything."


Worker's comp ought to cover everything. He's still going to be missing an eye.
It's a damned shame.




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

Tim Douglass wrote:
More to the point, be grateful you aren't ill-trained or an idiot,
which seem to be the major contributing factor in most nail-gun
accidents (well, most accidents, period, as far as that goes).

The real sad cases are the "ill-trained" variety. Around here, a lot of
construction help is day labor. There's street corners where guys looking
for work hang out. You need three pairs of hands for a day, you drive by
with your truck, hold up three fingers, and three guys jump in.

You stick a tool in the guy's hand and show him where the trigger is.
Safety training probably consists of "Be careful, this thing can hurt you".

I've got two. Never had a problem. Notice that he was a three WEEK
construction veteran. Training was probably non existent. Very likely an
illegal immigrant, most contractors see them as expendable.

"JIM" wrote in message
news
There seems to be a high rate of these nail gun accidents
happening lately. Kind of makes me glad that I don't own a
nail gun.

JIM

Damn those Hitachi nail guns. Sue the *******s.

Seriously, it is easy to spot the problems with this accident:
1) shooting a nail into concrete with a nail gun points to no training for
the employee. There are specialized tools for this.
2) three weeks on the job. Sounds like a day laborer to me. No training.
Asking for problems.
3) originally from Mexico. Possible language barrier. I had some Indian
programmers working for me once. No matter what I asked them to do, the
answer was "I can do dat. I can do dat.". They could not do dat as I later
found out.


"JIM" wrote in message
news
Saw this story on the newswi
http://abcnews.go.com/US/print?id=552076

Man Shoots Eye With Nail Gun, Pulls It Out
Construction Worker Accidentally Shoots Himself in the Eye With Nail
Gun, Then Pulls It Out

The Associated Press
Mar. 4, 2005 - A construction worker accidentally shot himself in the
eye with a nail gun and then pulled the 2 1/2-inch nail out of his
face, according to a police report and a co-worker.

Joseluis Franco, 19, was using an air-powered, Hitachi nail gun to
help build a home Wednesday when a nail bounced back and lodged in his
eye, crew leader Rogelio Ocampo said. Franco was nailing a two-by-four
to concrete when the nail ricocheted.

Franco was conscious when police arrived at the scene and was taken to
St. Mary's Medical Center in West Palm Beach, where he was treated and
released. Police said Friday they don't know the condition of Franco's
eye.

Originally from a town near Acapulco, Mexico, Franco has been in the
construction business for about three weeks, Ocampo said.

"I don't know what's going to happen to him," Ocampo said. "I don't
know if the insurance is going to cover his bills or anything."
__________________________________________________ ____


There seems to be a high rate of these nail gun accidents
happening lately. Kind of makes me glad that I don't own a
nail gun.

JIM

On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 21:02:10 -0600, "bob"
wrote:

Damn those Hitachi nail guns. Sue the *******s.

Seriously, it is easy to spot the problems with this accident:
1) shooting a nail into concrete with a nail gun points to no training for
the employee. There are specialized tools for this.
2) three weeks on the job. Sounds like a day laborer to me. No training.
Asking for problems.
3) originally from Mexico. Possible language barrier. I had some Indian
programmers working for me once. No matter what I asked them to do, the
answer was "I can do dat. I can do dat.". They could not do dat as I later
found out.


Why then were they working for you if they couldn't "do dat"?

Didn't you screen them?

As a Risk Management Consultant, many of the perils of "accidents waiting to
happen" have been covered in this thread. I have seen just about everything
in the 16 years in this business dealing with work related injuries.....
over 5000 of them.

The language barrier issue, lack of training and supervision, wrong tool for
the job, working too fast on a deadline, over confidence (Macho).

Most employees are trained to wear personal protective equipment. Many think
they are a bother and complain that they are "More dangerous". The key is to
get glasses that fit and are comfortable and are able to be worn ALL day.
Not just when you THINK you might need them, because you will be injured
when you are not wearing them during a task that you did not THINK you were
going to get hurt.

EXAMPLE: An employee picks up a pair of side cutters to cut the medal
banding on a bundle of wood. Metal springs back and hits his eye. Medical
costs after one year = $98,000. His eye was saved with about a 50% loss of
vision. There is a special pair of cutters designed to cut strapping that
captures both sides of he strap with the cutting blade in between to hold
both sides of the band when it is cut. Price: less than $25.00

Lastly, keep in mind that an eye injury from a projectile many not put your
eye out.... it may KILL you. There is no boney tissue behind the eye... just
your brain. The eye socket is a direct path to an instant death.

Dennis Slabaugh
Hobbyist Woodworker
www.woodworkinghobby.com



"JIM" wrote in message
news
Saw this story on the newswi
http://abcnews.go.com/US/print?id=552076

Man Shoots Eye With Nail Gun, Pulls It Out
Construction Worker Accidentally Shoots Himself in the Eye With Nail
Gun, Then Pulls It Out

The Associated Press
Mar. 4, 2005 - A construction worker accidentally shot himself in the
eye with a nail gun and then pulled the 2 1/2-inch nail out of his
face, according to a police report and a co-worker.

Joseluis Franco, 19, was using an air-powered, Hitachi nail gun to
help build a home Wednesday when a nail bounced back and lodged in his
eye, crew leader Rogelio Ocampo said. Franco was nailing a two-by-four
to concrete when the nail ricocheted.

Franco was conscious when police arrived at the scene and was taken to
St. Mary's Medical Center in West Palm Beach, where he was treated and
released. Police said Friday they don't know the condition of Franco's
eye.

Originally from a town near Acapulco, Mexico, Franco has been in the
construction business for about three weeks, Ocampo said.

"I don't know what's going to happen to him," Ocampo said. "I don't
know if the insurance is going to cover his bills or anything."
__________________________________________________ ____


There seems to be a high rate of these nail gun accidents
happening lately. Kind of makes me glad that I don't own a
nail gun.

JIM

Eradicate Sampson wrote:

On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 21:02:10 -0600, "bob"
wrote:

Damn those Hitachi nail guns. Sue the *******s.

Seriously, it is easy to spot the problems with this accident:
1) shooting a nail into concrete with a nail gun points to no training for
the employee. There are specialized tools for this.
2) three weeks on the job. Sounds like a day laborer to me. No training.
Asking for problems.
3) originally from Mexico. Possible language barrier. I had some Indian
programmers working for me once. No matter what I asked them to do, the
answer was "I can do dat. I can do dat.". They could not do dat as I
later found out.


Why then were they working for you if they couldn't "do dat"?

Didn't you screen them?

Don't know about where he worked, but in most businesses of any size the
line supervisor doesn't get to make hiring decisions.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 08:40:52 -0500, "Dennis Slabaugh, Hobbyist
Woodworker" wrote:

Most employees are trained to wear personal protective equipment. Many think
they are a bother and complain that they are "More dangerous". The key is to
get glasses that fit and are comfortable and are able to be worn ALL day.
Not just when you THINK you might need them, because you will be injured
when you are not wearing them during a task that you did not THINK you were
going to get hurt.

Comfortable protective equipment is always a problem. Back when I did
carpentry full-time I wore a hard hat all the time - it was
comfortable and no big deal to put on. Likewise the steel-toed boots.
Ear protection came close, we used muff types, but they were always
kept with the tools, so when you grabbed the saw you grabbed the
muffs. For a long time I actually had a pair of muffs threaded through
my hard hat suspension so they went on with the hard hat. Not always
best to wear them all the time, but worked when you ran power tools
most of the day.

Eye protection has always been the big bugaboo. I wear glasses and
there just aren't any good forms of eye protection that are
comfortable for long-term wear. Any type of goggles will fog up with
the slightest exertion, not to mention the amount of distortion they
offer. Face shields are a real pain except in specialized applications
like turning. I never did find a good compromise other than
polycarbonate lenses in the prescription glasses - they just get so
scratched in a week or so that they are useless, and there goes a
couple hundred dollars on new lenses.

Dust protection is another difficult one, especially for those of us
of a hirsute inclination. Dust masks work OK for most stuff, but you
have to get to some real dollars to get something that is useful for
organic vapors. Generally you are looking at either a hood type
arrangement or something blowing filtered air past your face and
hoping the pressure differential will keep the nasties away.

I understand those who don't wear safety gear, because most of it is
awkward, but I don't sympathize when that decision leads to injury.

--
"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

In article , Tim Douglass wrote:

[snip lotsa real good stuff about safety gear]
Face shields are a real pain except in specialized applications

I can't agree with you on this one. I also wear prescription glasses, and I've
found the same difficulties with goggles that you described. For me, a face
shield is the perfect solution: it never fogs, and it takes only seconds to
put on. I wear mine constantly when I'm in the shop. The only downside I've
seen to it is that you'd better remember to lift it when you feel a sneeze
coming on. :-(


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

Tim Douglass wrote:

Eye protection has always been the big bugaboo. I wear glasses and
there just aren't any good forms of eye protection that are
comfortable for long-term wear. Any type of goggles will fog up with
the slightest exertion, not to mention the amount of distortion they

I agree on goggles. Hate'em. The alternative, though, isn't foolproof. I
had to pay a visit to my opthamologist after I scratched my cornea while
weedeating wearing a pair of Weed Eater brand safety glasses with
wrap-around side shields, wrap-around top shield and the whole nine yards.
The bit of rock, twig, whatever, went up at an angle underneath, zipping
past my nose.

It's a real conundrum. Goggles would have prevented that, but, as you say,
they fog up with the slightest exertion. The little holes and vents and
whatnot don't work worth a damn. Various anti-fog salves and balms help
slightly, but they only buy you a few moments before you have to remove
them and de-fog. They don't come anywhere near solving the problem.

Dust protection is another difficult one, especially for those of us
of a hirsute inclination. Dust masks work OK for most stuff, but you
have to get to some real dollars to get something that is useful for
organic vapors. Generally you are looking at either a hood type

Yup. Nothing really works. I feel like a dust mask actually forces me to
inhale *more* dust, because it concentrates it at the interface between
beard and mask. The alternative looks unwieldy, but more importantly,
those hood things are frickin EXPENSIVE. It's a problem I wish I could
solve, but it's kind of a question of weighing the risk of occasional dust
inhalation against having SWMBO perpetually ****ed off at me for shaving
the beard. She *likes* the beard.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

Doug Miller states:

In article , Tim Douglass
wrote:


[snip lotsa real good stuff about safety gear]


Face shields are a real pain except in specialized applications


I can't agree with you on this one. I also wear prescription glasses,
and I've
found the same difficulties with goggles that you described. For me, a
face
shield is the perfect solution: it never fogs, and it takes only
seconds to
put on. I wear mine constantly when I'm in the shop. The only downside
I've
seen to it is that you'd better remember to lift it when you feel a
sneeze
coming on. :-(

I agree. When I used to be nearsighted, a face shield was about the
only thing that kept fog off the eyeglasses for any length of time.

Now, I can wear just a pair of reader bifocals, and those are available
all over the place these days. I have at least one pair I got at
McFeely's. But you gotta change from nearsighted to mildly farsighted
to do that, which in my case took cataract surgery.

On 2005-03-05, Silvan wrote:

Yup. Nothing really works. I feel like a dust mask actually forces me to
inhale *more* dust, because it concentrates it at the interface between
beard and mask. The alternative looks unwieldy, but more importantly,
those hood things are frickin EXPENSIVE. It's a problem I wish I could
solve, but it's kind of a question of weighing the risk of occasional dust
inhalation against having SWMBO perpetually ****ed off at me for shaving
the beard. She *likes* the beard.

Use a 3M AirMate. As you mention, it's very expensive ($800) but still quite
a bit cheaper than a new set of lungs, or any surgery on your eyes. Mine
has the full face shield, a hard hat and a positive pressure to keep dust
and gas out of my lungs. I also have a beard which is NEVER EVER coming off.

I usually use a simple HEPA filter, but have a combo ammonia/HEPA unit for
fuming with 30% ammonia. I had two episodes of asthma that left me unable
to stand up for an hour after some exercise. Turned out to be acid reflux
disease dumping acid into my lungs. $3/day worth of pills fixed that, but
I retained the desire to keep crap out of my lungs/eyes and ears. Almost
any protective gear is going to be cheaper than a visit to the hospital or
medical specialist(s).

--
I can find no modern furniture that is as well designed and emotionally
satisfying as that made by the Arts and Crafts movement in the early years
of the last century.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message news:zloWd.16736

I can't agree with you on this one. I also wear prescription glasses, and
I've
found the same difficulties with goggles that you described. For me, a
face
shield is the perfect solution: it never fogs, and it takes only seconds
to
put on. I wear mine constantly when I'm in the shop. The only downside
I've
seen to it is that you'd better remember to lift it when you feel a sneeze
coming on. :-(

I agree with you on this one. I wear glasses too and when necessary, it only
takes a second to flip up the face shield when you need to. For the past
dozen years, I've used one of the Lee Valley Tools face guards and so far
have replaced the shield once after the original became scratched up too
much. Better the shield than my face.

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...26&cat=1,42207

In article , "Upscale" wrote:

Better the shield than my face.

My thoughts exactly. Many people forget that the face contains other things,
besides the eyes, that are worth protecting. I don't like to think about
catching a kickback in the teeth or the nose.

It's so quick and easy to put that face shield on, that I use it for all kinds
of situations where eye protection doesn't really seem all that important (the
benchtop mortiser, for instance). Why take the chance?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

On 5 Mar 2005 21:14:59 GMT, Ed Clarke wrote:

On 2005-03-05, Silvan wrote:

Yup. Nothing really works. I feel like a dust mask actually forces me to
inhale *more* dust, because it concentrates it at the interface between
beard and mask. The alternative looks unwieldy, but more importantly,
those hood things are frickin EXPENSIVE. It's a problem I wish I could
solve, but it's kind of a question of weighing the risk of occasional dust
inhalation against having SWMBO perpetually ****ed off at me for shaving
the beard. She *likes* the beard.

Use a 3M AirMate. As you mention, it's very expensive ($800) but still quite
a bit cheaper than a new set of lungs, or any surgery on your eyes. Mine
has the full face shield, a hard hat and a positive pressure to keep dust
and gas out of my lungs. I also have a beard which is NEVER EVER coming off.

I'm in that place with the beard. It's been there for 20 years and
isn't going anywhere. I have been looking at various face shield
setups with remote filtration. There is the AirMate and something else
which is only about $350 IIRC. It has a belt pack with the filters
etc. I sure could have used something the other day - I was fine
sanding on maple and didn't realize how thick the dust was until I
stopped. What really made me think was when I looked at the little
electric heater in my workroom and saw that thick layer of dust all
over the heating elements and stuff.

The cost thing is a big part of it for me. My annual tool budget won't
run to *one* $800 purchase. If I were to buy an $800 AirMate I
wouldn't have any reason to ever wear it because there would be no
wood in the shop to make dust. So for now I wear the cheap dust masks
(when I remember) and rely on the sweat and condensation on my beard
to make a sort of filter around the edges.

--
"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 16:38:26 -0600, JIM wrote:



There seems to be a high rate of these nail gun accidents
happening lately. Kind of makes me glad that I don't own a
nail gun.

JIM



funny... I've been using nail guns for something like 20 years and
I've never shot myself in the eye.

not even once.

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 19:16:32 -0500, Roy Smith vaguely
proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Yeah. I got into a duscussion" with somebody on rec.boats.building
about this. He was grizzling that no locals would work for him on his
boat project, so he found some Mexicans who were willing to do the
work. "Why are the local guys so lazy?"

He could not see that it was simply that the Mexicans were desperate,
he was _still_ offering better than they got at home, and he was only
going have to pay **** wages, with no safety training, because this
_was_ after all "unskilled labour".

Or if he could see that, he thought it was OK.

The real sad cases are the "ill-trained" variety. Around here, a lot of
construction help is day labor. There's street corners where guys looking
for work hang out. You need three pairs of hands for a day, you drive by
with your truck, hold up three fingers, and three guys jump in.

You stick a tool in the guy's hand and show him where the trigger is.
Safety training probably consists of "Be careful, this thing can hurt you".

On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 14:14:24 -0700, s vaguely proposed
a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Yeah but that's just because you _shut_ yours and look away, every
time you pull the trigger! G
funny... I've been using nail guns for something like 20 years and
I've never shot myself in the eye.

not even once.