Silvan wrote in
:

snip
Beige carpet. Two kids,
four dogs. Four dogs that lose 470.7 million tons of hair every
13/256 of a second. I should start making felt hats.


There's the problem. Lose the dogs. Or evict them.

Patriarch,
who is, admittedly _not_ a pet person, but still has to feed the @#%^ing
cats...

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 23:38:27 GMT, Patriarch wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote in
:

snip

You know, come to think of it, I have never had to take a Crafstman
socket back. Only screwdrivers and mauls so far.

How do you break a maul, exactly? I mean, aren't they _made_ to hit
stuff with?

The ones _I've_ broken have been when I missed what I was trying to hit.
Typically a wedge. How Michael broke his is a matter for speculation.

If you whack the handle just south of the head, say, on the edge of a
massive chunk of firewood, physics tends to work against you.

Ah, yes, of course. I was thinking the head itself, not the handle.
Yup, I've replaced more than a couple handles on BFHs over the years.

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 21:32:40 -0500, Owen Lawrence wrote:
"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
Wait wait! What're ya doing? That's a perfectly good machine. Is it
still out there? Can I have the harddrive? How about the screen? Does
it
have a CDROM drive?

I sent e-mail to the above address but I suspect it's munged. Change my
username to owen (keep the rest of my address) and send me a message if
you're serious.

Nope, it's a real address. I subscribe to them as a mail filtering
service, and they block 99% or so of the incoming spam (and make reporting
the rest of it simple).

Response to the other topic is in your email, thanks.

Dave

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 21:57:42 -0500, Silvan wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote:

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 23:03:55 -0500, Silvan
wrote:

shirts and some dress clothes I haven't worn in yearrrrs. (I own a tie?
Why do I own a tie?)

Well, interviews, of course.

The funny thing is I have never once gotten any job I dressed up for. Ever.
"We'll call you." Right.

That's annoying, isn't it? Last time I was in the market, I took the job
I now have (no kidding) but called the other two places I had interviewed
with to thank them for their time, and to let them know I had accepted an
offer elsewhere. I didn't know if I was still in the running with them
or not, but I figured it was worth a phone call as a courtesy. Apparently
not many people do that, because they both acted strange when I did it.
Maybe they'd already hired and never bothered to call me, though, hard
to say.

OK, who are you, and what have you done with our Silvan?

You should see the curb. Wow dude. TWO entire BOXES of trash bags. I
basically threw away 80% of everything that was in our closets, and gave
the 12% of it that was worth something to someone to Goodwill.

I now have the name of the place that will take those monitors, so I'm
making progress. I also cleared out (let's see) about six square feet
of floor space, including a lot of little items that had accumulated.
Found a stack of missing CDs (don't ask) and my snap-ring plier set.

I guess we could have had a yard sale, but screw it.

Thing with that, is you have to lose a whole weekend to make a couple
hundred bucks if you're lucky, arguing with people who want to pay only
four dollars for something worth 20, instead of the 5 it's marked at.
eBay sometimes, but I've been known to take stuff to work, put up a notice
on the trade board saying "first at my desk to take it can have it" for
things that are useful, but not to me.

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 21:58:19 -0500, Silvan wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote:

Yup. I don't screw around with my computers at home nearly as much
as I used to, I'd rather spend time with the family or in the workshops.

It just ain't fun anymore.

Well, don't get me wrong, I _use_ the computers at home, but I'm not
going to go rebuilding kernels for the hell of it to see how it goes.
That, after all, is what the lab at work is for. Time to build that
FreeBSD mailhub running postfix, I think.

Dave

On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 12:33:49 -0800, Tim Douglass wrote:
On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 09:47:05 -0800, Gino wrote:

I have the most fun with old 'home' computers.
TI994a, Commodore 64, and the portable Tandy 102 are a blast.

I'd love to get my hands on an old C64 portable. Wish I'd never lost
track of the original.

I've got a Vic-20, you want it?

Dave

On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 23:53:56 GMT, Dave in Fairfax wrote:
Gino wrote:
I have the most fun with old 'home' computers.
TI994a, Commodore 64, and the portable Tandy 102 are a blast.

There was a Morrow, an Adam, and an Eagle out there. Trash 80
too,

Hey now, don't be dis'ing the TRS-80. Sacred ground there.

On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 18:54:03 GMT, jo4hn wrote:
Silvan wrote:

[snip]
Wow, I'm so soft and squishy now.


Built for comfort, not for speed.

Thanks for _that_ mental image, Jo4hn. By the way, what's with the
speeling?

On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 22:10:58 -0500, Silvan wrote:

And I did, too. Finally tried out my scrapers on that little wild grained
maple board end. I guess it's probably what you'd call fiddleback grain.
Came out purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrty when I got done. Wow!

Pix anywhere?

Dave Hinz wrote:

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 21:57:42 -0500, Silvan
wrote:

I guess we could have had a yard sale, but screw it.

Thing with that, is you have to lose a whole weekend to make a
couple hundred bucks if you're lucky, arguing with people who
want to pay only four dollars for something worth 20, instead
of the 5 it's marked at. eBay sometimes, but I've been known
to take stuff to work, put up a notice on the trade board
saying "first at my desk to take it can have it" for things
that are useful, but not to me.

That's a good way to go. For my last west coast stint, I took
along my PC690, my little PC panel saw, and an old B&D VSR drill
- and rented an unfurnished apartment. I bought two futon sofas
and built all the rest of a normal complement of furnishings
using (mostly) SPF from a San Jose lumberyard.

Right before I left I posted a notice on the lab bulletin board
announcing a "Grand Opening Going Out of Business Sale" with "No
money down same as cash". The next morning I helped two young
couples I'd worked with load the works (knocked down) into their
SUV and van and watched 'em happily drive it all home. One of the
other consultant types hauled away my little impromptu
three-legged workbench to use in refurbing his sailboat up on the
bay.

Made me wish I'd done that on all the trips before. Felt /good/.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html

On 3 Jan 2005 18:09:01 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 12:33:49 -0800, Tim Douglass wrote:
On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 09:47:05 -0800, Gino wrote:

I have the most fun with old 'home' computers.
TI994a, Commodore 64, and the portable Tandy 102 are a blast.

I'd love to get my hands on an old C64 portable. Wish I'd never lost
track of the original.

I've got a Vic-20, you want it?

Not really, it was the neat gray, rectangular cased C64 portable that
was so much fun, you could take it anywhere and play games on the
built in 4" monitor. Of course now days I can't even *see* a 4"
monitor, let along anything on it.

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

Tim Douglass wrote:

Not really, it was the neat gray, rectangular cased C64
portable that was so much fun, you could take it anywhere and
play games on the built in 4" monitor. Of course now days I
can't even *see* a 4" monitor, let along anything on it.

You're not alone. I still have my O-1 and have exactly the same
problem.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html

I made the same purchase. It was a waste of money but I don't think it
was quite as bad as you do.

On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 15:51:49 -0800, Tim Douglass
wrote:

On 3 Jan 2005 18:09:01 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 12:33:49 -0800, Tim Douglass wrote:
On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 09:47:05 -0800, Gino wrote:

I have the most fun with old 'home' computers.
TI994a, Commodore 64, and the portable Tandy 102 are a blast.

I'd love to get my hands on an old C64 portable. Wish I'd never lost
track of the original.

I've got a Vic-20, you want it?

Not really, it was the neat gray, rectangular cased C64 portable that
was so much fun, you could take it anywhere and play games on the
built in 4" monitor. Of course now days I can't even *see* a 4"
monitor, let along anything on it.

LOL!
I just upgraded to a 21" monitor for that reason. The 19" was getting hard on
the eyes.

On 3 Jan 2005 16:26:47 -0800, Never Enough Money wrote:
I made the same purchase. It was a waste of money but I don't think it
was quite as bad as you do.

Huh? What? Who?

On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 18:18:27 -0600, Morris Dovey
wrote:

Tim Douglass wrote:

Not really, it was the neat gray, rectangular cased C64
portable that was so much fun, you could take it anywhere and
play games on the built in 4" monitor. Of course now days I
can't even *see* a 4" monitor, let along anything on it.

You're not alone. I still have my O-1 and have exactly the same
problem.

I *do* still have an O-1. I had forgotten about that one. I actually
built a printer interface for the edge connector and wrote the OS
(CP/M) extensions to drive the printer in its various modes. That
thing was a brute, but it got me through college. At one time I very
seriously considered adding a hard drive to it - $4,000 for a 5
megabyte drive. It seems a bit more reasonable when you consider that
a floppy only held 185K IIRC.

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

Tim Douglass wrote:
snip
It seems a bit more reasonable when you consider that
a floppy only held 185K IIRC.

180K

Dave in Fairfax
--
Dave Leader
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.Patinatools.org/

I was replying to Gino. Sorry for the confusion.

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 09:25:32 -0800, Tim Douglass wrote:
On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 18:18:27 -0600, Morris Dovey
wrote:

Tim Douglass wrote:

Not really, it was the neat gray, rectangular cased C64
portable that was so much fun, you could take it anywhere and
play games on the built in 4" monitor. Of course now days I
can't even *see* a 4" monitor, let along anything on it.

You're not alone. I still have my O-1 and have exactly the same
problem.

I *do* still have an O-1. I had forgotten about that one. I actually
built a printer interface for the edge connector and wrote the OS
(CP/M) extensions to drive the printer in its various modes. That
thing was a brute, but it got me through college. At one time I very
seriously considered adding a hard drive to it - $4,000 for a 5
megabyte drive. It seems a bit more reasonable when you consider that
a floppy only held 185K IIRC.

160 or 185K, depending on if it was 35 or 40 tracks.

Dave Hinz

Dave in Fairfax wrote:

Tim Douglass wrote:
snip
It seems a bit more reasonable when you consider that
a floppy only held 185K IIRC.

180K

I was thinking 160K. Hrm.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

On 4 Jan 2005 19:10:25 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 09:25:32 -0800, Tim Douglass wrote:
On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 18:18:27 -0600, Morris Dovey
wrote:

Tim Douglass wrote:

Not really, it was the neat gray, rectangular cased C64
portable that was so much fun, you could take it anywhere and
play games on the built in 4" monitor. Of course now days I
can't even *see* a 4" monitor, let along anything on it.

You're not alone. I still have my O-1 and have exactly the same
problem.

I *do* still have an O-1. I had forgotten about that one. I actually
built a printer interface for the edge connector and wrote the OS
(CP/M) extensions to drive the printer in its various modes. That
thing was a brute, but it got me through college. At one time I very
seriously considered adding a hard drive to it - $4,000 for a 5
megabyte drive. It seems a bit more reasonable when you consider that
a floppy only held 185K IIRC.

160 or 185K, depending on if it was 35 or 40 tracks.

I still have my 1980 vintage notch cutter for turning single sided floppies into
double sided.
I also have a box of 5 8" floppies with the original price still on the box.
$99.95.

144Kb though Micro$oft had a way of packing a bit more onto them when they
shipped Winders Fer WerkGroops....

HOWEVER.... I can still vaguely recall single side, low density that
couldn't hold what is now a smallish *,gif....

While we're at it... how many can remember when a 44Meg HDD was HUGE!!!

"Silvan" wrote in message
...
Dave in Fairfax wrote:

Tim Douglass wrote:
snip
It seems a bit more reasonable when you consider that
a floppy only held 185K IIRC.

180K

I was thinking 160K. Hrm.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 23:08:30 -0500, Silvan
wrote:

Dave in Fairfax wrote:

Tim Douglass wrote:
snip
It seems a bit more reasonable when you consider that
a floppy only held 185K IIRC.

180K

I was thinking 160K. Hrm.

For most computers, yes. However Commodores were always a little --
shall we say -- idiosyncratic?

--RC

"Sometimes history doesn't repeat itself. It just yells
'can't you remember anything I've told you?' and lets
fly with a club.
-- John W. Cambell Jr.

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 06:39:10 GMT, "Jim Warman" wrote:

144Kb though Micro$oft had a way of packing a bit more onto them when they
shipped Winders Fer WerkGroops....

HOWEVER.... I can still vaguely recall single side, low density that
couldn't hold what is now a smallish *,gif....

While we're at it... how many can remember when a 44Meg HDD was HUGE!!!

I have a luggable with a 10 meg HD. The purchase price of the computer new was
about 20 grand.
I weighs about 38 pounds and the last time I plugged it in 5 years ago it still
worked. Now I'm having the urge to haul it out of the shed and plug it in.


"Silvan" wrote in message
...
Dave in Fairfax wrote:

Tim Douglass wrote:
snip
It seems a bit more reasonable when you consider that
a floppy only held 185K IIRC.

180K

I was thinking 160K. Hrm.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

Jim Warman wrote:

While we're at it... how many can remember when a 44Meg HDD was HUGE!!!

My first hard drive (attached to an IMSAI 8080) was an IBM 2311
with only 7MB. The second was a 10MB drive in a Morrow MD-11.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html

Gino wrote:

I still have my 1980 vintage notch cutter for turning single
sided floppies into double sided. I also have a box of 5 8"
floppies with the original price still on the box. $99.95.

I'll see your notcher and 8" FDs and raise you a paper tape
splicer with a box of mylar splices. (-:

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html

"Jim Warman" wrote in message
news:iYLCd.55408$KO5.15149@clgrps13...
144Kb though Micro$oft had a way of packing a bit more onto them when they
shipped Winders Fer WerkGroops....

HOWEVER.... I can still vaguely recall single side, low density that
couldn't hold what is now a smallish *,gif....

While we're at it... how many can remember when a 44Meg HDD was HUGE!!!

I just threw out a pair of ST-225s. Sick.

Jim Warman wrote:

HOWEVER.... I can still vaguely recall single side, low density that
couldn't hold what is now a smallish *,gif....

While we're at it... how many can remember when a 44Meg HDD was HUGE!!!

I think the huge drive Dad used to have at work was only 32 MB or so. It
was the size of a dormitory refrigerator.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

I can remember back in the day when dad was working for the feds at Apollo
(the moon shot days) when a huge washing machine sized disk "array" held the
contents of a small box of punch cards. One of the fun geek things to do was
to send it read/write commands timed such that it would walk accross the
floor.....

I can remember the platters getting pulled out (they were changeable). They
were big, and made an amazing ringing sound when pinged with a pencil (on
the edge of course....)

--JD


"Silvan" wrote in message
...
Jim Warman wrote:

HOWEVER.... I can still vaguely recall single side, low density that
couldn't hold what is now a smallish *,gif....

While we're at it... how many can remember when a 44Meg HDD was HUGE!!!

I think the huge drive Dad used to have at work was only 32 MB or so. It
was the size of a dormitory refrigerator.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 06:39:10 GMT, Jim Warman wrote:
144Kb though Micro$oft had a way of packing a bit more onto them when they
shipped Winders Fer WerkGroops....

HOWEVER.... I can still vaguely recall single side, low density that
couldn't hold what is now a smallish *,gif....

While we're at it... how many can remember when a 44Meg HDD was HUGE!!!

I've never seen "5MB" spelled that way before. And it _was_ huge,
grep "Hawk removable platter". Big blue thing, maybe 16" in
diameter, around 2" thick, big white handle on the top to
lift it out of the drive. I think my drive had 5MB fixed, 5MB
removable. Size of a small washing machine.

Fun times...

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 02:48:36 -0600, Morris Dovey wrote:
Jim Warman wrote:

While we're at it... how many can remember when a 44Meg HDD was HUGE!!!

My first hard drive (attached to an IMSAI 8080) was an IBM 2311
with only 7MB. The second was a 10MB drive in a Morrow MD-11.

Damn newbies...

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 20:56:53 -0800, Gino wrote:
On 4 Jan 2005 19:10:25 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

160 or 185K, depending on if it was 35 or 40 tracks.

I still have my 1980 vintage notch cutter for turning single sided floppies into
double sided.
I also have a box of 5 8" floppies with the original price still on the box.
$99.95.

I sold a _bunch_ of 8" floppies in the time leading up to Y2K. Had a
stack of 'em, with the "too good to toss, not good enough to use" stuff.
As Y2K came near, people with ancient systems needed to patch 'em.
My employer at the time was one of those. As an employee, I wasn't
allowed to sell to my employer (huge megacorp with stupid rules),
so we bought from the local media supplier. But, I wasn't prohibited
from selling _to_ the local media supplier, so...

I think I got something like 5 bucks a piece for aged, used, 8" floppies.
About half of what they were worth when new, but a whole lot more
than they're worth for any other reason. Purely a supply:demand situation.

Dave Hinz wrote:
On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 02:48:36 -0600, Morris Dovey wrote:

Jim Warman wrote:


While we're at it... how many can remember when a 44Meg HDD was HUGE!!!

My first hard drive (attached to an IMSAI 8080) was an IBM 2311
with only 7MB. The second was a 10MB drive in a Morrow MD-11.


Damn newbies...

/clever rejoinder mode/ Oh Yeah??!! /crm off/ My first disk had 2K 24
bit words. It was also the RAM. Cycle time of 0.01 sec. Verdan
computer, manufacture by Autonetics and the flight computer for the
Hound Dog cruise missile. Gronk.
hail to the geezers,
jo4hn

Hmmmm, I am reminded of a little TI unit I had with a membrane
"keyboard" whose "harddrive" was my cassette tape recorder. I am not a
techie (I was in school getting my accounting degree at the time), but
I managed to program a Tic-Tac-Toe game in Basic on it. 16K of total
memory if I recall. The "monitor" was my TV set.

Dave Hall

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 18:48:16 GMT, jo4hn wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote:
On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 02:48:36 -0600, Morris Dovey wrote:

Jim Warman wrote:


While we're at it... how many can remember when a 44Meg HDD was HUGE!!!

My first hard drive (attached to an IMSAI 8080) was an IBM 2311
with only 7MB. The second was a 10MB drive in a Morrow MD-11.


Damn newbies...

/clever rejoinder mode/ Oh Yeah??!! /crm off/ My first disk had 2K 24
bit words. It was also the RAM. Cycle time of 0.01 sec. Verdan
computer, manufacture by Autonetics and the flight computer for the
Hound Dog cruise missile. Gronk.

I think you win.

I'm not as "ancient" as some, but my first computer was a sinclair Z-81
with 2k or 3k of memory, 1980. Cost an amazingly low $200 then. I later
moved up to a Timex-sinclair T-1000 with 16K of memory, using my tape
recorder as a storage device. Moved up again to an Atari 400 with their
tape drive and 16K memory, got a MPP (now USR) 300 baud modem, then a
1200 baud modem for "only" $175. I remember picking up 10DSDD 5.25"
floppies for the incredible low price of 19.95, and I didn't even have a
floppy drive yet then. an Atari 800, a few Atari ST's, including the
areas first 20mb HD made for it ($600 IIRC). Back then, slide show
programs were intended to read off floppies and show them as fast as
they could load. When I tried it on the HD, it flashed through the
images about every 2 seconds.

I finally "upgraded" to a PC when my last ST died.

John

Jim Warman wrote in news:iYLCd.55408$KO5.15149@clgrps13:

144Kb though Micro$oft had a way of packing a bit more onto them when
they shipped Winders Fer WerkGroops....

HOWEVER.... I can still vaguely recall single side, low density that
couldn't hold what is now a smallish *,gif....

While we're at it... how many can remember when a 44Meg HDD was
HUGE!!!


Oh Man,
I remember the 44Meg HDD being huge. I also think of actually paying
$200 for a 4mb RAM chip for a 486 and thinking wow, I'll bet a 50mb of RAM
would make an awesome machine except it would cost 12 Grand!! Hah!
--
Michael Burton
Thunderbird Hardwoods
Llano, TX

mhburton at tbird-hardwoods dot com

I once had a room mate who had a Wagner Power Sprayer. In addition to the drips, it shocked you every time you pulled the trigger!

Dave Hinz wrote:

/clever rejoinder mode/ Oh Yeah??!! /crm off/ My first disk had 2K 24
bit words. It was also the RAM. Cycle time of 0.01 sec. Verdan
computer, manufacture by Autonetics and the flight computer for the
Hound Dog cruise missile. Gronk.

I think you win.

crm Nah. First computer I programed had no transistors and no
RAM. It was a Bendix G-15 with a rotating drum memory. It was a
challenge to distribute programs around the (2K) drum so that as
each instruction finished executing the next would be (almost) at
the read head. It did double duty as a space heater. /crm

About that same time a friend of mine built a computer (stored
program calculator) out of telephone relays. Noisy thing. As I
recall, he had to be careful because if too many relays picked at
the same time, it blew the power supply fuse.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/collectors.html

I finally "upgraded" to a PC when my last ST died.

John

Ha! That's funny. I loved those machines. They had the best gui. Gem
Desktop, I think it was. I had a garage business going where I would solder
in the sockets and pop in the chips to turn the Atari ST520 into the ST1040.
Then you'd get your host controller, your external drive enclosure and you
were smokin with a 20 meg HD. I still get warm fuzzies thinking about all
the bulletin boards I dialed up way back then. Remember how frustrating it
was to get the constant busy signal on the really popular ones?