I'm waiting on the window system to get here for my 3-season Patio.
In the mean time, I'm finishing up a lot of details and trim work,
including putting down a section of the kitchen flooring that had to be
taken up, temporarily.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Bi8qjLdnUQTjYwj69

The joists underneath this section of floor were very rotted which
helped cause a pretty good dip in the floor. Because we were pouring a
new concrete pad for the patio, I was able to cut out most of the rotted
joists, shore everything up, and replace that section with the concrete
pad.
For many reasons, it was not feasible or even a good idea lift the
joists up to take the dip out of the floor. But I didn't want the new
pad to dip with the old floor, so I had the pad poured level and figured
I'd shim the sub-floor to meet the pad.

That's where I'm at. There's a 3/4" difference in height from the left
side, 12ft. over to the right side and it's only about 16" wide. In my
mind I have 2 options...

1- Lay plywood sections down in different thicknesses, in increments
from 1/8, 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, and 3/4, forming a ramp to level it out.
Sand the seems between sections and let the flooring adhesive fill any
small gaps. But this means gluing these sections of plywood down to the
concrete.

2- Pour a self-leveling mortar bed. This seems to make the most sense
to me, however, I've never worked with it before. Also, on the left
side, it's going to be paper thin where it meets the existing pad which
is already even with the old sub-floor. Won't that area be prone to
cracking and breaking up? Would I need some sort of mesh fabric to
reinforce it?

Let me know what you think.

--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 10/28/18 1:09 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Bi8qjLdnUQTjYwj69

2- Pour a self-leveling mortar bed.Â* This seems to make the most sense
to me, however, I've never worked with it before.Â* Also, on the left
side, it's going to be paper thin where it meets the existing pad which
is already even with the old sub-floor.Â* Won't that area be prone to
cracking and breaking up?Â* Would I need some sort of mesh fabric to
reinforce it?

Actually, I forgot that I'm putting in a cabinet on the left side of the
doors, here.
The difference in height is 3/8, where the cabinet would end, so I could
pour the mortar to that point, 3/8" deep, using a curb of some sort. So
it wouldn't have to taper all the way down to paper thin.

--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 2:09:55 PM UTC-4, -MIKE- wrote:
I'm waiting on the window system to get here for my 3-season Patio.
In the mean time, I'm finishing up a lot of details and trim work,
including putting down a section of the kitchen flooring that had to be
taken up, temporarily.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Bi8qjLdnUQTjYwj69

The joists underneath this section of floor were very rotted which
helped cause a pretty good dip in the floor. Because we were pouring a
new concrete pad for the patio, I was able to cut out most of the rotted
joists, shore everything up, and replace that section with the concrete
pad.
For many reasons, it was not feasible or even a good idea lift the
joists up to take the dip out of the floor. But I didn't want the new
pad to dip with the old floor, so I had the pad poured level and figured
I'd shim the sub-floor to meet the pad.

That's where I'm at. There's a 3/4" difference in height from the left
side, 12ft. over to the right side and it's only about 16" wide. In my
mind I have 2 options...

1- Lay plywood sections down in different thicknesses, in increments
from 1/8, 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, and 3/4, forming a ramp to level it out.
Sand the seems between sections and let the flooring adhesive fill any
small gaps. But this means gluing these sections of plywood down to the
concrete.


Assuming I have my math right..

How about resawing wide tapered shims from 0" to .625", gluing them
side by side to the back of 1/8" plywood to create that "ramp" you
mentioned? A few Tapcons to hold it in place and Bob's your uncle.

..625 + .125 = .75

With shims laid side by side, your ramp would be one solid piece.

The shims don't have to be 12' long, cut my math in half and make
them 6' long, butted end-to-end.

On 10/28/18 5:58 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 2:09:55 PM UTC-4, -MIKE- wrote:
I'm waiting on the window system to get here for my 3-season Patio.
In the mean time, I'm finishing up a lot of details and trim work,
including putting down a section of the kitchen flooring that had to be
taken up, temporarily.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Bi8qjLdnUQTjYwj69

The joists underneath this section of floor were very rotted which
helped cause a pretty good dip in the floor. Because we were pouring a
new concrete pad for the patio, I was able to cut out most of the rotted
joists, shore everything up, and replace that section with the concrete
pad.
For many reasons, it was not feasible or even a good idea lift the
joists up to take the dip out of the floor. But I didn't want the new
pad to dip with the old floor, so I had the pad poured level and figured
I'd shim the sub-floor to meet the pad.

That's where I'm at. There's a 3/4" difference in height from the left
side, 12ft. over to the right side and it's only about 16" wide. In my
mind I have 2 options...

1- Lay plywood sections down in different thicknesses, in increments
from 1/8, 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, and 3/4, forming a ramp to level it out.
Sand the seems between sections and let the flooring adhesive fill any
small gaps. But this means gluing these sections of plywood down to the
concrete.


Assuming I have my math right..

How about resawing wide tapered shims from 0" to .625", gluing them
side by side to the back of 1/8" plywood to create that "ramp" you
mentioned? A few Tapcons to hold it in place and Bob's your uncle.

.625 + .125 = .75

With shims laid side by side, your ramp would be one solid piece.

The shims don't have to be 12' long, cut my math in half and make
them 6' long, butted end-to-end.


Yeah, good ideas. I'll consider that. Thanks.
Part of me wants to do the mortar thing just to put another skill on the
list, you know?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 9:17:16 PM UTC-4, -MIKE- wrote:
On 10/28/18 5:58 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 2:09:55 PM UTC-4, -MIKE- wrote:
I'm waiting on the window system to get here for my 3-season Patio.
In the mean time, I'm finishing up a lot of details and trim work,
including putting down a section of the kitchen flooring that had to be
taken up, temporarily.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Bi8qjLdnUQTjYwj69

The joists underneath this section of floor were very rotted which
helped cause a pretty good dip in the floor. Because we were pouring a
new concrete pad for the patio, I was able to cut out most of the rotted
joists, shore everything up, and replace that section with the concrete
pad.
For many reasons, it was not feasible or even a good idea lift the
joists up to take the dip out of the floor. But I didn't want the new
pad to dip with the old floor, so I had the pad poured level and figured
I'd shim the sub-floor to meet the pad.

That's where I'm at. There's a 3/4" difference in height from the left
side, 12ft. over to the right side and it's only about 16" wide. In my
mind I have 2 options...

1- Lay plywood sections down in different thicknesses, in increments
from 1/8, 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, and 3/4, forming a ramp to level it out.
Sand the seems between sections and let the flooring adhesive fill any
small gaps. But this means gluing these sections of plywood down to the
concrete.


Assuming I have my math right..

How about resawing wide tapered shims from 0" to .625", gluing them
side by side to the back of 1/8" plywood to create that "ramp" you
mentioned? A few Tapcons to hold it in place and Bob's your uncle.

.625 + .125 = .75

With shims laid side by side, your ramp would be one solid piece.

The shims don't have to be 12' long, cut my math in half and make
them 6' long, butted end-to-end.


Yeah, good ideas. I'll consider that. Thanks.
Part of me wants to do the mortar thing just to put another skill on the
list, you know?


I know what you mean, but is a kitchen the best place to learn that type
of skill?

Learning to make drawers and doors is one thing. You simply toss or fix
your errors. Screwing up mortar in a kitchen can get pretty messy.

Mortar isn't very forgiving. Is SWMBO? ;-)

"-MIKE-" wrote in message news
I'm waiting on the window system to get here for my 3-season Patio.
In the mean time, I'm finishing up a lot of details and trim work,
including putting down a section of the kitchen flooring that had to be
taken up, temporarily.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Bi8qjLdnUQTjYwj69

The joists underneath this section of floor were very rotted which helped
cause a pretty good dip in the floor. Because we were pouring a new
concrete pad for the patio, I was able to cut out most of the rotted
joists, shore everything up, and replace that section with the concrete
pad.

For many reasons, it was not feasible or even a good idea lift the joists
up to take the dip out of the floor. But I didn't want the new pad to dip
with the old floor, so I had the pad poured level and figured I'd shim the
sub-floor to meet the pad.

That's where I'm at. There's a 3/4" difference in height from the left
side, 12ft. over to the right side and it's only about 16" wide. In my
mind I have 2 options...

I see this scenario as a trip hazard if you try to fix it in 16 inches... As
such, I'd be inclined to remove the flooring and sub-floor for about 4 feet
and then place solid wood tapped shims on top of the existing joists to
blend the two levels. Then reinstall the sub-floor and finish flooring.
Spread over 4 feet the trip hazard would be pretty well eliminated.

Regarding the shims, I'd attach them to the joists with glue and finish
nails to avoid splitting them. After the glue dries nail or screw the
sub-floor down and go from there.

On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 13:09:50 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

I'm waiting on the window system to get here for my 3-season Patio.
In the mean time, I'm finishing up a lot of details and trim work,
including putting down a section of the kitchen flooring that had to be
taken up, temporarily.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Bi8qjLdnUQTjYwj69

The joists underneath this section of floor were very rotted which
helped cause a pretty good dip in the floor. Because we were pouring a
new concrete pad for the patio, I was able to cut out most of the rotted
joists, shore everything up, and replace that section with the concrete
pad.
For many reasons, it was not feasible or even a good idea lift the
joists up to take the dip out of the floor. But I didn't want the new
pad to dip with the old floor, so I had the pad poured level and figured
I'd shim the sub-floor to meet the pad.

That's where I'm at. There's a 3/4" difference in height from the left
side, 12ft. over to the right side and it's only about 16" wide. In my
mind I have 2 options...

1- Lay plywood sections down in different thicknesses, in increments
from 1/8, 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, and 3/4, forming a ramp to level it out.
Sand the seems between sections and let the flooring adhesive fill any
small gaps. But this means gluing these sections of plywood down to the
concrete.

2- Pour a self-leveling mortar bed. This seems to make the most sense
to me, however, I've never worked with it before. Also, on the left
side, it's going to be paper thin where it meets the existing pad which
is already even with the old sub-floor. Won't that area be prone to
cracking and breaking up? Would I need some sort of mesh fabric to
reinforce it?

Let me know what you think.

Floor leveling compound? It's made for this sort of thing.

On 10/28/18 9:06 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 13:09:50 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

I'm waiting on the window system to get here for my 3-season Patio.
In the mean time, I'm finishing up a lot of details and trim work,
including putting down a section of the kitchen flooring that had to be
taken up, temporarily.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Bi8qjLdnUQTjYwj69

The joists underneath this section of floor were very rotted which
helped cause a pretty good dip in the floor. Because we were pouring a
new concrete pad for the patio, I was able to cut out most of the rotted
joists, shore everything up, and replace that section with the concrete
pad.
For many reasons, it was not feasible or even a good idea lift the
joists up to take the dip out of the floor. But I didn't want the new
pad to dip with the old floor, so I had the pad poured level and figured
I'd shim the sub-floor to meet the pad.

That's where I'm at. There's a 3/4" difference in height from the left
side, 12ft. over to the right side and it's only about 16" wide. In my
mind I have 2 options...

1- Lay plywood sections down in different thicknesses, in increments
from 1/8, 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, and 3/4, forming a ramp to level it out.
Sand the seems between sections and let the flooring adhesive fill any
small gaps. But this means gluing these sections of plywood down to the
concrete.

2- Pour a self-leveling mortar bed. This seems to make the most sense
to me, however, I've never worked with it before. Also, on the left
side, it's going to be paper thin where it meets the existing pad which
is already even with the old sub-floor. Won't that area be prone to
cracking and breaking up? Would I need some sort of mesh fabric to
reinforce it?

Let me know what you think.

Floor leveling compound? It's made for this sort of thing.


Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 10/28/18 8:32 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
"-MIKE-"Â* wrote in message news
I'm waiting on the window system to get here for my 3-season Patio.
In the mean time, I'm finishing up a lot of details and trim work,
including putting down a section of the kitchen flooring that had to
be taken up, temporarily.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Bi8qjLdnUQTjYwj69

The joists underneath this section of floor were very rotted which
helped cause a pretty good dip in the floor.Â* Because we were pouring
a new concrete pad for the patio, I was able to cut out most of the
rotted joists, shore everything up, and replace that section with the
concrete pad.

For many reasons, it was not feasible or even a good idea lift the
joists up to take the dip out of the floor.Â* But I didn't want the new
pad to dip with the old floor, so I had the pad poured level and
figured I'd shim the sub-floor to meet the pad.

That's where I'm at.Â* There's a 3/4" difference in height from the
left side, 12ft. over to the right side and it's only about 16" wide.
In my mind I have 2 options...

I see this scenario as a trip hazard if you try to fix it in 16
inches... As such, I'd be inclined to remove the flooring and sub-floor
for about 4 feet and then place solid wood tapped shims on top of the
existing joists to blend the two levels. Then reinstall the sub-floor
and finish flooring. Spread over 4 feet the trip hazard would be pretty
well eliminated.

Regarding the shims, I'd attach them to the joists with glue and finish
nails to avoid splitting them. After the glue dries nail or screw the
sub-floor down and go from there.


Did you look at the pictures?
There's a 12ft by 16in portion next to a wall that contains a French door.
The trip hazard is what I'm trying to avoid and will with whatever
technique I choose.

If we were doing the kitchen remodel along with this patio addition, I
would likely have had the whole finished floor and probably the
sub-floor ripped up and replaced by now. :-)

But it's silly to do that for this little stripe of flooring.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 9:32:37 PM UTC-4, John Grossbohlin wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote in message news
I'm waiting on the window system to get here for my 3-season Patio.
In the mean time, I'm finishing up a lot of details and trim work,
including putting down a section of the kitchen flooring that had to be
taken up, temporarily.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Bi8qjLdnUQTjYwj69

The joists underneath this section of floor were very rotted which helped
cause a pretty good dip in the floor. Because we were pouring a new
concrete pad for the patio, I was able to cut out most of the rotted
joists, shore everything up, and replace that section with the concrete
pad.

For many reasons, it was not feasible or even a good idea lift the joists
up to take the dip out of the floor. But I didn't want the new pad to dip
with the old floor, so I had the pad poured level and figured I'd shim the
sub-floor to meet the pad.

That's where I'm at. There's a 3/4" difference in height from the left
side, 12ft. over to the right side and it's only about 16" wide. In my
mind I have 2 options...

I see this scenario as a trip hazard if you try to fix it in 16 inches... As
such, I'd be inclined to remove the flooring and sub-floor for about 4 feet
and then place solid wood tapped shims on top of the existing joists to
blend the two levels. Then reinstall the sub-floor and finish flooring.
Spread over 4 feet the trip hazard would be pretty well eliminated.


....snip...

You must be imagining a different problem than I am.

On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 13:09:50 -0500, -MIKE- wrote:

snippage
2- Pour a self-leveling mortar bed. This seems to make the most sense
to me, however, I've never worked with it before. Also, on the left
side, it's going to be paper thin where it meets the existing pad which
is already even with the old sub-floor. Won't that area be prone to
cracking and breaking up? Would I need some sort of mesh fabric to
reinforce it?

Let me know what you think.

There's a product called LevelQuik, a self-levelling underlayment, which
should do just what you want. Also, the bit on the left side will be
sandwiched between your finished floor and the old subfloor, so I
wouldn't worry too much about any cracks being noticed on the final floor.

Cheers,
Colin

On 10/28/18 10:27 PM, Colin Campbell wrote:
On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 13:09:50 -0500, -MIKE- wrote:

snippage
2- Pour a self-leveling mortar bed. This seems to make the most
sense to me, however, I've never worked with it before. Also, on
the left side, it's going to be paper thin where it meets the
existing pad which is already even with the old sub-floor. Won't
that area be prone to cracking and breaking up? Would I need some
sort of mesh fabric to reinforce it?

Let me know what you think.

There's a product called LevelQuik, a self-levelling underlayment,
which should do just what you want. Also, the bit on the left side
will be sandwiched between your finished floor and the old subfloor,
so I wouldn't worry too much about any cracks being noticed on the
final floor.

Cheers, Colin


Thanks.
That is one of the products I've been seeing in my research.
As for that bit on the left side... there will be a cabinet over that
section, anyway, so I may not even bother with that part. I'll probably
just start at the right edge of the cabinet and go from there. Cabinets
are easy to shim.

--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

"-MIKE-" wrote in message news
On 10/28/18 8:32 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote in message news
I'm waiting on the window system to get here for my 3-season Patio.
In the mean time, I'm finishing up a lot of details and trim work,
including putting down a section of the kitchen flooring that had to be
taken up, temporarily.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Bi8qjLdnUQTjYwj69

The joists underneath this section of floor were very rotted which helped
cause a pretty good dip in the floor. Because we were pouring a new
concrete pad for the patio, I was able to cut out most of the rotted
joists, shore everything up, and replace that section with the concrete
pad.

For many reasons, it was not feasible or even a good idea lift the
joists up to take the dip out of the floor. But I didn't want the new
pad to dip with the old floor, so I had the pad poured level and figured
I'd shim the sub-floor to meet the pad.

That's where I'm at. There's a 3/4" difference in height from the left
side, 12ft. over to the right side and it's only about 16" wide. In my
mind I have 2 options...

I see this scenario as a trip hazard if you try to fix it in 16 inches...
As such, I'd be inclined to remove the flooring and sub-floor for about 4
feet and then place solid wood tapered shims on top of the existing
joists to blend the two levels. Then reinstall the sub-floor and finish
flooring. Spread over 4 feet the trip hazard would be pretty well
eliminated.

Regarding the shims, I'd attach them to the joists with glue and finish
nails to avoid splitting them. After the glue dries nail or screw the
sub-floor down and go from there.


Did you look at the pictures?
There's a 12ft by 16in portion next to a wall that contains a French door.
The trip hazard is what I'm trying to avoid and will with whatever
technique I choose.

If we were doing the kitchen remodel along with this patio addition, I
would likely have had the whole finished floor and probably the sub-floor
ripped up and replaced by now. :-)

But it's silly to do that for this little stripe of flooring.

From your description and the photos it looked to me like the concrete was
level across the width and along the French door. This while the wooden
floor dips and gets lower and lower than the concrete as you move left to
right. The transition from the wood to the concrete is where you have the
problem.

I'd think that if you tried to blend the two in the strip of wood sub-floor
shown you'd have a rather abrupt angle at the 3/4" variance end. That is why
I suggested removing a bit more of the flooring and the sub-flooring the
blend over a wider area by putting tapered shims on the joists (under the
sub-floor).

I'd think you have the same rather abrupt angle using floor leveling
compound if you only worked in the sub-floor area shown.

Also, if the resulting "sub-floor" (wood and concrete) do not smoothly flow
from one to the other there is some risk of the laminate flooring cracking
(a real problem with the fiber/particle board laminates from what I've seen
in a couple older home do-it-yourself projects).

I'm waiting on the window system to get here for my 3-season Patio.
In the mean time, I'm finishing up a lot of details and trim work,
including putting down a section of the kitchen flooring that had to be
taken up, temporarily.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Bi8qjLdnUQTjYwj69

The joists underneath this section of floor were very rotted which
helped cause a pretty good dip in the floor. Because we were pouring a
new concrete pad for the patio, I was able to cut out most of the rotted
joists, shore everything up, and replace that section with the concrete
pad.
For many reasons, it was not feasible or even a good idea lift the
joists up to take the dip out of the floor. But I didn't want the new
pad to dip with the old floor, so I had the pad poured level and figured
I'd shim the sub-floor to meet the pad.

That's where I'm at. There's a 3/4" difference in height from the left
side, 12ft. over to the right side and it's only about 16" wide. In my
mind I have 2 options...

1- Lay plywood sections down in different thicknesses, in increments
from 1/8, 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, and 3/4, forming a ramp to level it out.
Sand the seems between sections and let the flooring adhesive fill any
small gaps. But this means gluing these sections of plywood down to the
concrete.

2- Pour a self-leveling mortar bed. This seems to make the most sense
to me, however, I've never worked with it before. Also, on the left
side, it's going to be paper thin where it meets the existing pad which
is already even with the old sub-floor. Won't that area be prone to
cracking and breaking up? Would I need some sort of mesh fabric to
reinforce it?


Looking at the picture, it looks like this is sort of a bay window and
the unlevel part lays the lenght of the bay. Since this is an outside
door, have you thought of putting tile in the low spot. To gain the
depth, pull the existing floor boards out in the area. and lay a new
subfloor between the joist. then pour the concrete, and put tile on
that.

You could extend the tile a little into the room and make the tile area
a little wider.

You could even tile the room using a similar method.

On 10/29/18 6:53 AM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
I'm waiting on the window system to get here for my 3-season Patio.
In the mean time, I'm finishing up a lot of details and trim work,
including putting down a section of the kitchen flooring that had to be
taken up, temporarily.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Bi8qjLdnUQTjYwj69

The joists underneath this section of floor were very rotted which
helped cause a pretty good dip in the floor.Â* Because we were pouring a
new concrete pad for the patio, I was able to cut out most of the rotted
joists, shore everything up, and replace that section with the concrete
pad.
For many reasons, it was not feasible or even a good idea lift the
joists up to take the dip out of the floor.Â* But I didn't want the new
pad to dip with the old floor, so I had the pad poured level and figured
I'd shim the sub-floor to meet the pad.

That's where I'm at.Â* There's a 3/4" difference in height from the left
side, 12ft. over to the right side and it's only about 16" wide.Â* In my
mind I have 2 options...

1-Â* Lay plywood sections down in different thicknesses, in increments
from 1/8, 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, and 3/4, forming a ramp to level it
out. Sand the seems between sections and let the flooring adhesive
fill any
small gaps.Â* But this means gluing these sections of plywood down to the
concrete.

2- Pour a self-leveling mortar bed.Â* This seems to make the most sense
to me, however, I've never worked with it before.Â* Also, on the left
side, it's going to be paper thin where it meets the existing pad which
is already even with the old sub-floor.Â* Won't that area be prone to
cracking and breaking up?Â* Would I need some sort of mesh fabric to
reinforce it?


Looking at the picture, it looks like this is sort of a bay window and
the unlevel part lays the lenght of the bay.Â*Â* Since this is an outside
door, have you thought of putting tile in the low spot.Â* To gain the
depth, pull the existing floor boards out in the area.Â* and lay a new
subfloor between theÂ* joist. then pour the concrete, and put tile on that.

You could extend the tile a little into the room and make the tile area
a little wider.

You could even tile the room using a similar method.

Thank you, but all those decisions and choices were all made months ago
before starting on the patio. More pics of its construction can be
seen, here...
https://photos.app.goo.gl/nHLDkWJwdvgXBYS26

This was the best option for this project and now the only thing that
needs to be done to tie it all together, is having the two planes of
both surfaces meet together.

That's the advice I'm seeking.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 10/29/18 12:55 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote in message news
On 10/28/18 8:32 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote in message news
I'm waiting on the window system to get here for my 3-season
Patio. In the mean time, I'm finishing up a lot of details and
trim work, including putting down a section of the kitchen
flooring that had to be taken up, temporarily.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Bi8qjLdnUQTjYwj69

The joists underneath this section of floor were very rotted
which helped cause a pretty good dip in the floor. Because we
were pouring a new concrete pad for the patio, I was able to cut
out most of the rotted joists, shore everything up, and replace
that section with the concrete pad.

For many reasons, it was not feasible or even a good idea lift
the joists up to take the dip out of the floor. But I didn't
want the new pad to dip with the old floor, so I had the pad
poured level and figured I'd shim the sub-floor to meet the
pad.

That's where I'm at. There's a 3/4" difference in height from
the left side, 12ft. over to the right side and it's only about
16" wide. In my mind I have 2 options...

I see this scenario as a trip hazard if you try to fix it in 16
inches... As such, I'd be inclined to remove the flooring and
sub-floor for about 4 feet and then place solid wood tapered
shims on top of the existing joists to blend the two levels. Then
reinstall the sub-floor and finish flooring. Spread over 4 feet
the trip hazard would be pretty well eliminated.

Regarding the shims, I'd attach them to the joists with glue and
finish nails to avoid splitting them. After the glue dries nail
or screw the sub-floor down and go from there.


Did you look at the pictures? There's a 12ft by 16in portion next
to a wall that contains a French door. The trip hazard is what I'm
trying to avoid and will with whatever technique I choose.

If we were doing the kitchen remodel along with this patio
addition, I would likely have had the whole finished floor and
probably the sub-floor ripped up and replaced by now. :-)

But it's silly to do that for this little stripe of flooring.

From your description and the photos it looked to me like the
concrete was level across the width and along the French door. This
while the wooden floor dips and gets lower and lower than the
concrete as you move left to right. The transition from the wood to
the concrete is where you have the problem.

Sort of. The wood floor dips from right to left, is higher than the
concrete on the right, and on the same plane at the left. But yeah,
that's what's happening.


I'd think that if you tried to blend the two in the strip of wood
sub-floor shown you'd have a rather abrupt angle at the 3/4" variance
end. That is why I suggested removing a bit more of the flooring and
the sub-flooring the blend over a wider area by putting tapered shims
on the joists (under the sub-floor).

I'd think you have the same rather abrupt angle using floor leveling
compound if you only worked in the sub-floor area shown.


There may be something you can't see in the pics. I added another photo
in the album to better show what's happening at that transition.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/8kX2emmUY3rLfTpi8

There are 2 layers of plywood subfloor, which is very common from this
time period. They put down 5/8", frame the house, then lay down 1/2" on
top. When I pulled up the old finished flooring, I also pulled up the
1/2" layer of plywood underneath it. The horizontal plane of that
little step is my horizontal guide for the new section to meet it.

Whatever I do to shim the new section to the old section will sort of
follow this little step and it will continue the plane of the old floor
the remaining 18" until it hits the wall and door threshold. That's all
I'm doing... continuing the flat plane of the floor to meet the wall.

Also, if the resulting "sub-floor" (wood and concrete) do not
smoothly flow from one to the other there is some risk of the
laminate flooring cracking (a real problem with the fiber/particle
board laminates from what I've seen in a couple older home
do-it-yourself projects).


That's one reason I'm considering the leveling compound as it will fill
everything and be totally smooth on top. However, in the time it's
taken me to type all of these posts, I could probably have been done
with the wood route and had the old flooring put down. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

"-MIKE-" wrote in message news
There may be something you can't see in the pics. I added another photo
in the album to better show what's happening at that transition.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/8kX2emmUY3rLfTpi8

There are 2 layers of plywood subfloor, which is very common from this
time period. They put down 5/8", frame the house, then lay down 1/2" on
top. When I pulled up the old finished flooring, I also pulled up the
1/2" layer of plywood underneath it. The horizontal plane of that
little step is my horizontal guide for the new section to meet it.

Whatever I do to shim the new section to the old section will sort of
follow this little step and it will continue the plane of the old floor
the remaining 18" until it hits the wall and door threshold. That's all
I'm doing... continuing the flat plane of the floor to meet the wall.

Overall, in the photo it looks pretty much like I thought it did
conceptually... an ugly transition!

Me personally, I'd remove the sub-flooring down to the joists and use
tapered shims to make the joists transition as outlined previously. Then put
down the subflooring. If there is room perhaps use 3/4" ply for stiffness.
With the shimming done well a bit of sanding might be all you need to smooth
the transition. This assuming laminate padding/paper is used between the
sub-floor and finish floor to take care of minor variance (e.g., 1/32" or
less),

However, in the time it's
taken me to type all of these posts, I could probably have been done
with the wood route and had the old flooring put down. :-)

Yup... analysis paralysis is a common problem!