Apparently Craftsman was around before Sears acquired it 90 years ago.
And now Sears is selling Craftsman tools to Stanley.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/sears-...--finance.html

On 2017-01-05, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

Apparently Craftsman was around before Sears acquired it 90 years ago.
And now Sears is selling Craftsman tools to Stanley.

Yet another step down.

nb

On 1/5/2017 1:40 PM, Leon wrote:
Apparently Craftsman was around before Sears acquired it 90 years ago.
And now Sears is selling Craftsman tools to Stanley.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/sears-...--finance.html


Yep, not sure how selling off the better selling lines will save Sears.
If you sell them, you get quick cash, but then what?

I think Sears will go out of business shortly. Been 2 years that I have
been waiting for them to give up. Last Christmas, no one was in the
store I went to, while all the other stores were packed.

The craftsman line is not what it once was. Too bad. But don't look to
Stanley, B&D to bring it back. They are horrendous at managing the tool
lines..

Dewalt, B&D, Milwaukee, Stanley, are all former shells of what they once
were. The latest one to drop was Milwaukee, with people lamenting that
the quality has dropped.

Even B&D coffee maker sucks now.

I don't see this as a bad thing, nor a good thing.


--
Jeff

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 2017-01-05 1:40 PM, Leon wrote:
Apparently Craftsman was around before Sears acquired it 90 years ago.
And now Sears is selling Craftsman tools to Stanley.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/sears-...--finance.html

Closing a bunch on stores too, it will not belong till it goes under.

http://fortune.com/2017/01/05/sears-kmart-closings/

--
Froz....

On Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 1:40:38 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
Apparently Craftsman was around before Sears acquired it 90 years ago.
And now Sears is selling Craftsman tools to Stanley.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/sears-...--finance.html

I heard a (slightly) more in depth report this morning. They mentioned that
Sears is considering selling off the Kenmore and Die-Hard lines of business.

I don't recall if it's just a consideration or if negotiations had already
begun. Either way, the company is dwindling into nothingness.

On Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 1:33:36 PM UTC-6, woodchucker wrote:
On 1/5/2017 1:40 PM, Leon wrote:
Apparently Craftsman was around before Sears acquired it 90 years ago.
And now Sears is selling Craftsman tools to Stanley.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/sears-...--finance.html


Yep, not sure how selling off the better selling lines will save Sears.
If you sell them, you get quick cash, but then what?

I think Sears will go out of business shortly. Been 2 years that I have
been waiting for them to give up. Last Christmas, no one was in the
store I went to, while all the other stores were packed.

The craftsman line is not what it once was. Too bad. But don't look to
Stanley, B&D to bring it back. They are horrendous at managing the tool
lines..

Dewalt, B&D, Milwaukee, Stanley, are all former shells of what they once
were. The latest one to drop was Milwaukee, with people lamenting that
the quality has dropped.

Even B&D coffee maker sucks now.

I don't see this as a bad thing, nor a good thing.


--
Jeff

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Does not bode well for quality but I've got a few Craftsman tools and for parts and service I'm glad a company without a foot in the grave will take over.

On 1/5/2017 4:14 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 1:40:38 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
Apparently Craftsman was around before Sears acquired it 90 years ago.
And now Sears is selling Craftsman tools to Stanley.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/sears-...--finance.html

I heard a (slightly) more in depth report this morning. They mentioned that
Sears is considering selling off the Kenmore and Die-Hard lines of business.

I don't recall if it's just a consideration or if negotiations had already
begun. Either way, the company is dwindling into nothingness.


They missed the boat a long time ago. Sers had a thriving catalog
business. They should have turned that into something like Amazon
before Amazon started up.

On 1/5/2017 1:33 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 1/5/2017 1:40 PM, Leon wrote:
Apparently Craftsman was around before Sears acquired it 90 years ago.
And now Sears is selling Craftsman tools to Stanley.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/sears-...--finance.html



Yep, not sure how selling off the better selling lines will save Sears.
If you sell them, you get quick cash, but then what?

Sears cannot survive at this rate, thank you K-Mart.
They will still sell Craftsman but will not get the lions share of the
profit from the sales. Right/in the next couple of years they get
$900,000,000.




I think Sears will go out of business shortly. Been 2 years that I have
been waiting for them to give up. Last Christmas, no one was in the
store I went to, while all the other stores were packed.

I have been watching the financials, Sears has been doing poorly for a
very long time, not just in the last couple of years. IMHO they and
Macey's were too wide spread, big cities do not need 10 stores,
customers will drive to those stores if they want their products.

On 1/5/2017 3:14 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 1:40:38 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
Apparently Craftsman was around before Sears acquired it 90 years ago.
And now Sears is selling Craftsman tools to Stanley.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/sears-...--finance.html

I heard a (slightly) more in depth report this morning. They mentioned that
Sears is considering selling off the Kenmore and Die-Hard lines of business.

Wow, Kenmore has had a good reputation and is exclusive to Sears. If
they get rid of that brand there really will be no reason for me to go
to their stores. But really Kenmore is simply a rebadged Whirlpool,
Amana, GE, or Bosch appliance.



I don't recall if it's just a consideration or if negotiations had already
begun. Either way, the company is dwindling into nothingness.


IIRC they have had 20 straight loosing quarters, they have to reduce
their fixed expenses to a manageable level and get rid of the
non-profitable stores.

Apparently Craftsman was around before Sears acquired it 90 years ago.
And now Sears is selling Craftsman tools to Stanley.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/sears-...--finance.html



Closing a bunch on stores too, it will not belong till it goes under.

http://fortune.com/2017/01/05/sears-kmart-closings/



I heard that they were considering groceries ...
" stick a fork in that one - I think it's done .. "
John T.

On Thu, 5 Jan 2017 13:14:10 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 1:40:38 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
Apparently Craftsman was around before Sears acquired it 90 years ago.
And now Sears is selling Craftsman tools to Stanley.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/sears-...--finance.html

I heard a (slightly) more in depth report this morning. They mentioned that
Sears is considering selling off the Kenmore and Die-Hard lines of business.

I don't recall if it's just a consideration or if negotiations had already
begun. Either way, the company is dwindling into nothingness.

Kenmore is just other appliance manufacturers relabeled, guess some
one will buy, P T Barnum is right again. DieHard the same thing.

On 1/5/2017 4:32 PM, Markem wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jan 2017 13:14:10 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 1:40:38 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
Apparently Craftsman was around before Sears acquired it 90 years ago.
And now Sears is selling Craftsman tools to Stanley.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/sears-...--finance.html

I heard a (slightly) more in depth report this morning. They mentioned that
Sears is considering selling off the Kenmore and Die-Hard lines of business.

I don't recall if it's just a consideration or if negotiations had already
begun. Either way, the company is dwindling into nothingness.

Kenmore is just other appliance manufacturers relabeled, guess some
one will buy, P T Barnum is right again. DieHard the same thing.


It's interesting but this announcement and several posts here on the rec
with regard to the history of Craftsman Tools caused me to Google it a
bit. If you're interested in this sort of thing, there's a pretty good
Wiki at:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craftsman_(tools)

There are several other discussions out there that provide interesting
insight to the brand as well.

Takeaways?

1) Marion-Craftsman Tools, from whom Sears bought the trade name,
doesn't appear to have been a major player. They may have had a product
line involving "Ford Wrench(s)" but they seem to be fairly obscure.

2) Sears has NEVER manufactured any of its own tools (hand or powered).
Most are contract pieces from other manufacturer's, sometimes nearly
identical to their other products or with some added feature exclusive
to the Craftsman brand.

3) Same thing goes for Kenmore, DieHard and that old second line of
Sears hand and power tools, Dunlap followed by Companion.

End of an era, I suppose. Sad to see them go this way.

Sears today supposedly has value because of all the real estate it owns-occupies in malls across the country. Not because it has retail sales. The sales side started dying awhile ago. And likely will continue. K-Mart never upped its game to compete with Wal-Mart. So it is gone now. The Craftsman, Kenmore, Diehard brands are all good. But now days its easy to buy the same quality or better easily. No need to go to a Sears store.

And I do not know if the real estate value of Sears is good anymore either. I don't think malls are the gathering place they used to be. Several of the older malls in my half million people town have slowly withered. There is a NEW mall that is a happening place. But older malls, no. New, yes. Times have changed and Sears did not change with them.

On 1/5/2017 6:17 PM, wrote:
Sears today supposedly has value because of all the real estate it owns-occupies in malls across the country. Not because it has retail sales. The sales side started dying awhile ago. And likely will continue. K-Mart never upped its game to compete with Wal-Mart. So it is gone now. The Craftsman, Kenmore, Diehard brands are all good. But now days its easy to buy the same quality or better easily. No need to go to a Sears store.

And I do not know if the real estate value of Sears is good anymore either. I don't think malls are the gathering place they used to be. Several of the older malls in my half million people town have slowly withered. There is a NEW mall that is a happening place. But older malls, no. New, yes. Times have changed and Sears did not change with them.


What value? Liability for rent I can see but the era of the mall is over.

Going back some years we used to go to the mall a couple of times a
month to shop, maybe have lunch or at least a snack. I bet it has been
3 years since I set foot in a mall, but less than a week since I made a
purchase on line. Sales on line are up 17% last year according to NBC
news.

Amazon also lets me place orders in my underwear. Macy's frowns upon it.

On Thu, 5 Jan 2017 16:56:37 -0600, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:

On 1/5/2017 4:32 PM, Markem wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jan 2017 13:14:10 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 1:40:38 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
Apparently Craftsman was around before Sears acquired it 90 years ago.
And now Sears is selling Craftsman tools to Stanley.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/sears-...--finance.html

I heard a (slightly) more in depth report this morning. They mentioned that
Sears is considering selling off the Kenmore and Die-Hard lines of business.

I don't recall if it's just a consideration or if negotiations had already
begun. Either way, the company is dwindling into nothingness.

Kenmore is just other appliance manufacturers relabeled, guess some
one will buy, P T Barnum is right again. DieHard the same thing.


It's interesting but this announcement and several posts here on the rec
with regard to the history of Craftsman Tools caused me to Google it a
bit. If you're interested in this sort of thing, there's a pretty good
Wiki at:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craftsman_(tools)

There are several other discussions out there that provide interesting
insight to the brand as well.

Takeaways?

1) Marion-Craftsman Tools, from whom Sears bought the trade name,
doesn't appear to have been a major player. They may have had a product
line involving "Ford Wrench(s)" but they seem to be fairly obscure.

2) Sears has NEVER manufactured any of its own tools (hand or powered).
Most are contract pieces from other manufacturer's, sometimes nearly
identical to their other products or with some added feature exclusive
to the Craftsman brand.

3) Same thing goes for Kenmore, DieHard and that old second line of
Sears hand and power tools, Dunlap followed by Companion.

End of an era, I suppose. Sad to see them go this way.

It is what they have to sell, the names. The bankers who bought Sear
and Kmart are now getting they're money back. It is the way most
mergers go.

On Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 5:59:08 PM UTC-6, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 1/5/2017 6:17 PM, wrote:

And I do not know if the real estate value of Sears is good anymore either. I don't think malls are the gathering place they used to be. Several of the older malls in my half million people town have slowly withered. There is a NEW mall that is a happening place. But older malls, no. New, yes. Times have changed and Sears did not change with them.


What value? Liability for rent I can see but the era of the mall is over..


I did say "I don't think malls are the gathering place they used to be." To me that means exactly the same thing as "the era of the mall is over." The value, or maybe old value, of Sears is its real estate value. I am aware malls are not really the shopping centers they used to be. But all that real estate in every state in retail locations has value. Despite the prevalence of online shopping, the way I do a lot of shopping too, actual real estate space is still needed and valuable. There is still far more in person retail space shopping than all online shopping combined. Believe it or not. Add up all the grocery store, gas station, hardware store, Wal-Mart shopping I do in a year, and it is a lot more than all online shopping I do. Suspect that is identical for everyone else. Everyone talks about online shopping, but it will never ever replace in person shopping.

On 1/5/2017 8:25 PM, wrote:

What value? Liability for rent I can see but the era of the mall is over.


I did say "I don't think malls are the gathering place they used to be." To me that means exactly the same thing as "the era of the mall is over." The value, or maybe old value, of Sears is its real estate value. I am aware malls are not really the shopping centers they used to be. But all that real estate in every state in retail locations has value. Despite the prevalence of online shopping, the way I do a lot of shopping too, actual real estate space is still needed and valuable. There is still far more in person retail space shopping than all online shopping combined. Believe it or not. Add up all the grocery store, gas station, hardware store, Wal-Mart shopping I do in a year, and it is a lot more than all online shopping I do. Suspect that is identical for everyone else. Everyone talks about online shopping, but it will never ever replace in person shopping.


I don't know how much real estate Sears owns, but mall space is usually
leased. They may have more liability to the end of the lease that what
the space is worth.

I agree that retail will never disappear, but look around at how much
empty space is available. how many malls have empty spots? I know of
three stip malls built about 8 or 9 years ago. One is 100% empty, the
other two are 75% empty.

On Thu, 5 Jan 2017 14:33:29 -0500, woodchucker
wrote:

On 1/5/2017 1:40 PM, Leon wrote:
Apparently Craftsman was around before Sears acquired it 90 years ago.
And now Sears is selling Craftsman tools to Stanley.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/sears-...--finance.html


Yep, not sure how selling off the better selling lines will save Sears.
If you sell them, you get quick cash, but then what?

Turn the ones you don't close into K-Marts? ...and then close them
next year?

I think Sears will go out of business shortly. Been 2 years that I have
been waiting for them to give up. Last Christmas, no one was in the
store I went to, while all the other stores were packed.

There isn't a Sears store anywhere close to me, so I rarely go there
(even though I have a Sears lawn tractor). One of the stores, on the
other side of town, is in a mall that's so empty that a Korean grocery
store moved into one of the anchor stores. There are so few people in
the mall that you could roll a bowling ball down the middle of the
mall at any time of day and not hit anyone. Nice mall, absolutely
nothing there.


The craftsman line is not what it once was. Too bad. But don't look to
Stanley, B&D to bring it back. They are horrendous at managing the tool
lines..

Dewalt, B&D, Milwaukee, Stanley, are all former shells of what they once
were. The latest one to drop was Milwaukee, with people lamenting that
the quality has dropped.

Even B&D coffee maker sucks now.

I don't see this as a bad thing, nor a good thing.

On Thu, 5 Jan 2017 20:58:23 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 1/5/2017 8:25 PM, wrote:

What value? Liability for rent I can see but the era of the mall is over.


I did say "I don't think malls are the gathering place they used to be." To me that means exactly the same thing as "the era of the mall is over." The value, or maybe old value, of Sears is its real estate value. I am aware malls are not really the shopping centers they used to be. But all that real estate in every state in retail locations has value. Despite the prevalence of online shopping, the way I do a lot of shopping too, actual real estate space is still needed and valuable. There is still far more in person retail space shopping than all online shopping combined. Believe it or not. Add up all the grocery store, gas station, hardware store, Wal-Mart shopping I do in a year, and it is a lot more than all online shopping I do. Suspect that is identical for everyone else. Everyone talks about online shopping, but it will never ever replace in person shopping.


I don't know how much real estate Sears owns, but mall space is usually
leased. They may have more liability to the end of the lease that what
the space is worth.

I agree that retail will never disappear, but look around at how much
empty space is available. how many malls have empty spots? I know of
three stip malls built about 8 or 9 years ago. One is 100% empty, the
other two are 75% empty.

Around here, the more "modern" strip malls seem to be doing fine. The
ones that have been let go, well, their anchor is a Good Will. A few
malls were completely rebuilt three or four years ago. They're doing
fine, too. There aren't any indoor malls in the immediate area. I
think the closest is about 25mi (the opposite direction of our normal
shopping).

On 1/5/2017 9:05 PM, wrote:

Yep, not sure how selling off the better selling lines will save Sears.
If you sell them, you get quick cash, but then what?

Turn the ones you don't close into K-Marts? ...and then close them
next year?

The one in our town started at a K Mart, then became a Sears Essential,
the back to K Mart. Closed last year.

Ed Pawlowski wrote in
:


What value? Liability for rent I can see but the era of the mall is
over.

Going back some years we used to go to the mall a couple of times a
month to shop, maybe have lunch or at least a snack. I bet it has
been 3 years since I set foot in a mall, but less than a week since I
made a purchase on line. Sales on line are up 17% last year according
to NBC news.

Amazon also lets me place orders in my underwear. Macy's frowns upon
it.

Malls are now all about the shallow side of the human: cell phones,
clothes, etc. The stores that capture and captivate your attention are
rare. There used to be a Radioshack in every mall (you've got questions,
we've got cell phones!), as well as a KB Toys. Some still have
bookstores, but even they are going to standalone stores.

I bet Macy's would let you place orders without underwear on. Never seen
"no shoes, no shirt, no underwear, no service." (I have seen "no shoes,
no shirt, no pants, no service.") :-)

Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!

They won't go out until they get the second payment. Might be
closing more but not gone. Once the second payment is in their
hands, all bets are off. the cash rebate might never happen...

Martin

On 1/5/2017 1:33 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 1/5/2017 1:40 PM, Leon wrote:
Apparently Craftsman was around before Sears acquired it 90 years ago.
And now Sears is selling Craftsman tools to Stanley.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/sears-...--finance.html



Yep, not sure how selling off the better selling lines will save Sears.
If you sell them, you get quick cash, but then what?

I think Sears will go out of business shortly. Been 2 years that I have
been waiting for them to give up. Last Christmas, no one was in the
store I went to, while all the other stores were packed.

The craftsman line is not what it once was. Too bad. But don't look to
Stanley, B&D to bring it back. They are horrendous at managing the tool
lines..

Dewalt, B&D, Milwaukee, Stanley, are all former shells of what they once
were. The latest one to drop was Milwaukee, with people lamenting that
the quality has dropped.

Even B&D coffee maker sucks now.

I don't see this as a bad thing, nor a good thing.

wrote in
:



Closing a bunch on stores too, it will not belong till it goes under.

http://fortune.com/2017/01/05/sears-kmart-closings/



I heard that they were considering groceries ...
" stick a fork in that one - I think it's done .. "
John T.


Sears struck me as a company that didn't realize who their competition
was. Prices/quality just aren't competitive with other stores,
especially on common hand tools like levels.

Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!

The Big Book - the "Wish Book" at our house went years ago.

The large products / houses and such / closed out of catalogs but was in
large warehouses in Dallas. I went there with my father-in-law
to get something and we went into the tool building. They had lathes
and mills like the 50's. Wonder if they are still in south Dallas.
It was regular sales - low volume and get our money out of the stuff place.

Martin


On 1/5/2017 4:56 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 1/5/2017 4:32 PM, Markem wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jan 2017 13:14:10 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 1:40:38 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
Apparently Craftsman was around before Sears acquired it 90 years ago.
And now Sears is selling Craftsman tools to Stanley.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/sears-...--finance.html


I heard a (slightly) more in depth report this morning. They
mentioned that
Sears is considering selling off the Kenmore and Die-Hard lines of
business.

I don't recall if it's just a consideration or if negotiations had
already
begun. Either way, the company is dwindling into nothingness.

Kenmore is just other appliance manufacturers relabeled, guess some
one will buy, P T Barnum is right again. DieHard the same thing.


It's interesting but this announcement and several posts here on the rec
with regard to the history of Craftsman Tools caused me to Google it a
bit. If you're interested in this sort of thing, there's a pretty good
Wiki at:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craftsman_(tools)

There are several other discussions out there that provide interesting
insight to the brand as well.

Takeaways?

1) Marion-Craftsman Tools, from whom Sears bought the trade name,
doesn't appear to have been a major player. They may have had a product
line involving "Ford Wrench(s)" but they seem to be fairly obscure.

2) Sears has NEVER manufactured any of its own tools (hand or powered).
Most are contract pieces from other manufacturer's, sometimes nearly
identical to their other products or with some added feature exclusive
to the Craftsman brand.

3) Same thing goes for Kenmore, DieHard and that old second line of
Sears hand and power tools, Dunlap followed by Companion.

End of an era, I suppose. Sad to see them go this way.

On Thu, 05 Jan 2017 21:21:28 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 5 Jan 2017 20:58:23 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 1/5/2017 8:25 PM, wrote:

What value? Liability for rent I can see but the era of the mall is over.


I did say "I don't think malls are the gathering place they used to be." To me that means exactly the same thing as "the era of the mall is over." The value, or maybe old value, of Sears is its real estate value. I am aware malls are not really the shopping centers they used to be. But all that real estate in every state in retail locations has value. Despite the prevalence of online shopping, the way I do a lot of shopping too, actual real estate space is still needed and valuable. There is still far more in person retail space shopping than all online shopping combined. Believe it or not. Add up all the grocery store, gas station, hardware store, Wal-Mart shopping I do in a year, and it is a lot more than all online shopping I do. Suspect that is identical for everyone else. Everyone talks about online shopping, but it will never ever replace in person shopping.


I don't know how much real estate Sears owns, but mall space is usually
leased. They may have more liability to the end of the lease that what
the space is worth.

I agree that retail will never disappear, but look around at how much
empty space is available. how many malls have empty spots? I know of
three stip malls built about 8 or 9 years ago. One is 100% empty, the
other two are 75% empty.

Around here, the more "modern" strip malls seem to be doing fine. The
ones that have been let go, well, their anchor is a Good Will. A few
malls were completely rebuilt three or four years ago. They're doing
fine, too. There aren't any indoor malls in the immediate area. I
think the closest is about 25mi (the opposite direction of our normal
shopping).
Up here the big malls are doing relatively well. Our local
"regional" mall has anchore space empty due to the collape od Target's
Canadian opperations. The big one across town is pretty well full -
but the Sears store is flounderinf with Walmart at the other end of
the mall. The Bay is doing well in both malls. These are indoor "all
weather" malls and will be linked by the new "rapid transit" rail
system "ION" which is under construction and delayed by Bombardier's
rail-car devision.

On 1/5/2017 8:25 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 5:59:08 PM UTC-6, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 1/5/2017 6:17 PM, wrote:

And I do not know if the real estate value of Sears is good anymore either. I don't think malls are the gathering place they used to be. Several of the older malls in my half million people town have slowly withered. There is a NEW mall that is a happening place. But older malls, no. New, yes. Times have changed and Sears did not change with them.


What value? Liability for rent I can see but the era of the mall is over.


I did say "I don't think malls are the gathering place they used to be." To me that means exactly the same thing as "the era of the mall is over." The value, or maybe old value, of Sears is its real estate value. I am aware malls are not really the shopping centers they used to be. But all that real estate in every state in retail locations has value. Despite the prevalence of online shopping, the way I do a lot of shopping too, actual real estate space is still needed and valuable. There is still far more in person retail space shopping than all online shopping combined. Believe it or not. Add up all the grocery store, gas station, hardware store, Wal-Mart shopping I do in a year, and it is a lot more than all online shopping I do. Suspect that is identical for everyone else. Everyone talks about online shopping, but it will never ever replace in person shopping.


My son primarily shops online.
The only stores he walks into are the supermarket, REI, and the skate
shop that supplies his hockey habit...

Other than that, 99% is Amazon.

I like to touch it feel it.. get an idea for the quality , but I hate
shopping. I haven't been in a big mall in a few years. We have a small
mall near here, and it's empty, really empty. Most space is not
occupied. It's like a ghost town.

So I'm not sure your right. I think the 20 somethings won't go shopping
in stores much.

--
Jeff

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 06 Jan 2017 04:03:05 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

wrote in
:



Closing a bunch on stores too, it will not belong till it goes under.

http://fortune.com/2017/01/05/sears-kmart-closings/



I heard that they were considering groceries ...
" stick a fork in that one - I think it's done .. "
John T.


Sears struck me as a company that didn't realize who their competition
was. Prices/quality just aren't competitive with other stores,
especially on common hand tools like levels.

Puckdropper
You mean they didn't play the "compete on price only" game???
Sears didn't kill sears. Nor did Walmart. Nor did the Internet. The
North American Public killed Sears. And are the poorer for it, when
you get right down to brass tacks.

On 1/5/2017 11:37 PM, wrote:

Sears struck me as a company that didn't realize who their competition
was. Prices/quality just aren't competitive with other stores,
especially on common hand tools like levels.

Puckdropper
You mean they didn't play the "compete on price only" game???
Sears didn't kill sears. Nor did Walmart. Nor did the Internet. The
North American Public killed Sears. And are the poorer for it, when
you get right down to brass tacks.



How are we poorer for it? I never thought Sears had anything better
than other stores in terms of price, value, service. Never bough
Kenmore appliances but I do like my 50 year old Craftsman hand tools.

On 1/5/2017 10:37 PM, wrote:
On 06 Jan 2017 04:03:05 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

wrote in
:



Closing a bunch on stores too, it will not belong till it goes under.

http://fortune.com/2017/01/05/sears-kmart-closings/



I heard that they were considering groceries ...
" stick a fork in that one - I think it's done .. "
John T.


Sears struck me as a company that didn't realize who their competition
was. Prices/quality just aren't competitive with other stores,
especially on common hand tools like levels.

Puckdropper
You mean they didn't play the "compete on price only" game???
Sears didn't kill sears. Nor did Walmart. Nor did the Internet. The
North American Public killed Sears. And are the poorer for it, when
you get right down to brass tacks.



I believe it was merging with KMart that killed Sears. KMart had bad
deals going back in the early 90's.

wrote in news:ij7u6ctqak1ll96a1qjl9p96drgn4pj8jq@
4ax.com:

On 06 Jan 2017 04:03:05 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

Sears struck me as a company that didn't realize who their competition
was. Prices/quality just aren't competitive with other stores,
especially on common hand tools like levels.

Puckdropper
You mean they didn't play the "compete on price only" game???
Sears didn't kill sears. Nor did Walmart. Nor did the Internet. The
North American Public killed Sears. And are the poorer for it, when
you get right down to brass tacks.


Sears killed Sears. They might have gotten the North American Public to
do the actual work, but they got themselves into this mess.

Here's the thing: If you set yourself up just like the others playing the
compete on price game, people will respond like you're playing that game.
If your prices are higher for the same quality item, your value is lower
and people will go where the value is higher. How does Sears make up the
missing value? Well, it used to be momentum and reputation... but that's
good for only a decade or two. "Guaranteed Forever" sold a ton of
Craftsman tools, but they've been shying away from that as well.

Are we poorer for it? Perhaps for a while, but if there's a demand
someone will fill the "Walmart/Lowe's" crossover store segment. Thing
is, I just don't see it with the way that Walmart & Lowe's are all over
the place.

Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!

On 06 Jan 2017 03:41:11 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote in
:


What value? Liability for rent I can see but the era of the mall is
over.

Going back some years we used to go to the mall a couple of times a
month to shop, maybe have lunch or at least a snack. I bet it has
been 3 years since I set foot in a mall, but less than a week since I
made a purchase on line. Sales on line are up 17% last year according
to NBC news.

Amazon also lets me place orders in my underwear. Macy's frowns upon
it.

Malls are now all about the shallow side of the human: cell phones,
clothes, etc. The stores that capture and captivate your attention are
rare. There used to be a Radioshack in every mall (you've got questions,
we've got cell phones!), as well as a KB Toys. Some still have
bookstores, but even they are going to standalone stores.

I bet Macy's would let you place orders without underwear on. Never seen
"no shoes, no shirt, no underwear, no service." (I have seen "no shoes,
no shirt, no pants, no service.") :-)

I recall the mall, it was every other store was a woman's shoe store.

woodchucker wrote in
:

Yep, not sure how selling off the better selling lines will save
Sears. If you sell them, you get quick cash, but then what?

Sears management beleives (or has deluded themselves into
beleiving, or more likely is trying to delude the share-
holders into beleiving) that with a little time and investment
they can recover the business. With current costs exceeding
revenues, they have neither time nor funds to invest. Hence
the idea that selling assets will give them time & money to
fix the problem.

I think Sears will go out of business shortly.

I agree with you. I don't think they have a clue how to
solve their problems - they're still trying to figure out
"how do we compete with Walmart", when the world has moved
on and the real competition is the likes of Dollar General
(and, of course, Amazon).

John

Ed Pawlowski was heard to mutter:
What value? Liability for rent I can see but the era of the mall is over.
Going back some years we used to go to the mall a couple of times a
month to shop, maybe have lunch or at least a snack. I bet it has been
3 years since I set foot in a mall, but less than a week since I made a
purchase on line. Sales on line are up 17% last year according to NBC
news.

Depends on the mall. We've got too many malls in a small radius but
the success scale is all over the map. One enourmous mall is empty
(for several years now) except for an Outdoor World, which is already
slated to move this year. Another mall is so busy it's almost
impossible to get a parking space, especially on weekends. The
difference? Sears and the like are old and dead. Apple, Microsoft and
similar stores are now the huge business draw. On weekends you're
lucky to get a seat in the food court.

Amazon also lets me place orders in my underwear. Macy's frowns upon it.
ROFLMAO! Interesting priorities. As a long time shopper of NYC Macy's,
I thank you for not sharing that habit there.

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in news:QZOdnbpFJasTtvLFnZ2dnUU7-
:

On 1/5/2017 10:37 PM, wrote:

Sears didn't kill sears. Nor did Walmart. Nor did the Internet. The
North American Public killed Sears. And are the poorer for it, when
you get right down to brass tacks.

I believe it was merging with KMart that killed Sears. KMart had bad
deals going back in the early 90's.

KMart was the "coup de grace" - and a great lesson in how to
use bankruptcy court to avoid all your mistakes and make a
fortune from other people's money - but Sears's problems go
way back before that.

Sears was once what Amazon is today - you could buy anything
from them. Mail in your order, and in a week or two go down
to the Railway Express Agency(*) and pick up your package.
With the arrival of mall culture in the 50's and 60's, Sears
let the catalog business fade away, and became just like a
hundred other department stores (most of which have long
since disappeared). Come the revival of mail-order, and
instead of Sears sitting pretty with an order processing and
shipping system already in place, they have nothing - and
the new guys take over that space.

Is it fair to fault 70's Sears management for not having any
vision to be different from Penney's (or Mays, or Foleys,
or Burdines, etc etc etc)? No, but the result of the lack
of vision will predictably give them the same result as most
of their 70's competitors.

John

(* REA was to Sears as UPS is to Amazon)

Ed Pawlowski wrote in
:

They missed the boat a long time ago. Sers had a thriving catalog
business. They should have turned that into something like Amazon
before Amazon started up.

Hah, I just posted a long post saying the same thing before
reading this one. You're quite correct in that thought.

John

Ed Pawlowski wrote in
:

I don't know how much real estate Sears owns, but mall space is
usually leased. They may have more liability to the end of the lease
that what the space is worth.

Today Sears directly owns virtually no real estate, since
they restructured most of it into an REIT (which they still
mostly own, so indirectly they own the real estate). I have
read that around 1/3 of their stores were owned, rather than
leased.

I agree that retail will never disappear, but look around at how much
empty space is available. how many malls have empty spots? I know of
three stip malls built about 8 or 9 years ago. One is 100% empty, the
other two are 75% empty.

Two different expressions of the same problem...for big malls,
they got way over built in the 80's, and that situation is
slowly correcting itself. Around here about half the malls
that existed in the 80's have been torn down or repurposed,
the remaining half are doing well, since supply now matches
demand (more or less).

Strip malls are cyclical - there will be a shortage of strip
mall space, and several developers will rush in to build new
ones at the same time. Then there's a glut, and most of the
new space sits empty. Eventually demand will catch up with
supply, and then a new set of developers will build a new
surplus of strip space to sit empty for 3 or 4 years.

John

On 01/05/2017 03:54 PM, Leon wrote:
ears cannot survive at this rate, thank you K-Mart.

This has little to do with K-Mart. These traditional retailers
are getting their lunch handed to them because they did not
adapt to the world of eCommerce in a timely and effective way.

Amazon has set the bar very high for very fast delivery, great
pricing, and painless returns ... all from your living room. Some
traditional vendors figured this out. Some - Sears as one example -
did not. They're done for.

Capitalism and markets seek efficiency and punish the lack thereof
mercilessly. Creative Destruction is bad for individual actors,
but good for the marketplace overall.

On 1/5/17 11:34 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
wrote in news:ij7u6ctqak1ll96a1qjl9p96drgn4pj8jq@
4ax.com:

On 06 Jan 2017 04:03:05 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

Sears struck me as a company that didn't realize who their
competition was. Prices/quality just aren't competitive with
other stores, especially on common hand tools like levels.

Puckdropper
You mean they didn't play the "compete on price only" game??? Sears
didn't kill sears. Nor did Walmart. Nor did the Internet. The North
American Public killed Sears. And are the poorer for it, when you
get right down to brass tacks.


Sears killed Sears. They might have gotten the North American Public
to do the actual work, but they got themselves into this mess.

Here's the thing: If you set yourself up just like the others playing
the compete on price game, people will respond like you're playing
that game. If your prices are higher for the same quality item, your
value is lower and people will go where the value is higher. How
does Sears make up the missing value? Well, it used to be momentum
and reputation... but that's good for only a decade or two.
"Guaranteed Forever" sold a ton of Craftsman tools, but they've been
shying away from that as well.

Are we poorer for it? Perhaps for a while, but if there's a demand
someone will fill the "Walmart/Lowe's" crossover store segment.
Thing is, I just don't see it with the way that Walmart & Lowe's are
all over the place.

Puckdropper


Like Radio Shack, they tried to stick with an outdated model and refused
to move from it until the market had passed them in the dust.

Sears was stuck in an "everything in one place" model that worked great
when people shopped once a week or less and had to plan a trip to do it.

When everybody became mobile and specialty stores started to dominate
the market, Sears stayed with their old, outdated model and were trapped
in denial. People no longer wanted to go to one store for everything.
They wanted to go to a clothing store (or several) for clothes, they
wanted to go to the huge electronics store for that stuff, they wanted
to go to the huge hardware store for tools, etc, etc.

What we complain about now, because we can do it all at home on Amazon,
was empowering and adventurous at the time. More choices, better
prices, price matching, all that stuff gave the consumer a sense of
having the upper hand. It was a game to win and you felt like you
accomplished something by driving around and finding the best deal.
Commissioned salespeople didn't help their cause either.

Sears never "got it" and never would. Even when Sears tried to play the
"price match" game, it was underhanded and deceitful. If they carried a
certain brand of widget, they'd force the manufacturer to change the
model number just enough (like adding a single digit suffix) so that
they could refuse to price match because "it wasn't the same model."

I would agree that the North American Public if it weren't for the fact
that all these other retailers were in the game, playing by the same
rules and they succeeded. No, Sears is just another wagon maker trying
to convince people they don't need a car.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 2017-01-06, Puckdropper puckdropper wrote:

Sears killed Sears.

Agree.

I'm almost 70, so I've seen Sears in action. Heck, I once worked at a
Sears store.

But, I recall in 70s or 80s, Sears auto depts were blatantly screwing
their customers and the CA Attorny General hadda slap 'em down. Later
I went into a Sears store that was advertising huge discounts on GE
washer/dryer sets. I went into the appliance dept and discovered
those huge dicounts were more like $20 off on an $800 washer. That's
hardly a discount. I won't bore you all with my other Sears horror
stories. Needless to say, I haven't shopped at a Sears in years.

nb

On 1/6/2017 9:57 AM, John McCoy wrote:
woodchucker wrote in
:

Yep, not sure how selling off the better selling lines will save
Sears. If you sell them, you get quick cash, but then what?

Sears management beleives (or has deluded themselves into
beleiving, or more likely is trying to delude the share-
holders into beleiving) that with a little time and investment
they can recover the business. With current costs exceeding
revenues, they have neither time nor funds to invest. Hence
the idea that selling assets will give them time & money to
fix the problem.

I think Sears will go out of business shortly.

I agree with you. I don't think they have a clue how to
solve their problems - they're still trying to figure out
"how do we compete with Walmart", when the world has moved
on and the real competition is the likes of Dollar General
(and, of course, Amazon).

John



FWIW and this may have changed, in the early 90's KMart acquired/teamed
up/became partners with Sears. According to the money
managers/investment strategists, that was handling the retirement funds
for the company that I worked for at that time, KMart was in dire
straights at that point. It was explained that their business plan,
KMart, and sales were doing very well.
The problem, as it was explained to us, is that KMart was a lot like
Walmart, a number of family members that ran KMart were retiring with
spectacular pensions. KMart was bleeding to death, even back then, from
the pension plans the the family members were collecting. Supposedly
the pension plans were literally draining all net profits and then some.