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Default Sears to sell Craftsman to Stanley/B&D

On 1/6/2017 7:33 PM, wrote:

From past experience, B&D could be the death knell for Craftsman. The
only thing B&D does well is marketing.


According to the news they paid $900million for it
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On 1/6/2017 10:40 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 1/6/2017 6:55 PM, woodchucker wrote:

I don't think so. I have a peeve with Amazon. Originally free shipping
over $25.. then they moved it to $35, and quickly thereafter to $49... I
understand the $35, but the $49 was not necessary. It was to make you
buy into PRIME.. and that's where my disdain lies. I understood when
they said in order for them to remain profitable they had to move to
$35.. That I got..


I'm surprised Bezos let you see the books to determine that. How much
profit do they make on a $35 order so they can give you free shipping?

I placed 56 order in 2016 so Prime works for me. Listen to Prime music
too.


That was their own PR piece on their website explaining the $35 minimum.

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On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 16:01:39 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 1/6/2017 3:13 PM, Jack wrote:
On 1/6/2017 2:28 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/6/2017 10:56 AM, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
On 01/05/2017 03:54 PM, Leon wrote:
ears cannot survive at this rate, thank you K-Mart.

This has little to do with K-Mart. These traditional retailers
are getting their lunch handed to them because they did not
adapt to the world of eCommerce in a timely and effective way.

KMart needed extra funds, more money than their spectacular profits
could provide back in the early 90's. They needed funds to offset the
extremely high pension payments that retiring family owners were
collecting. As profitable as it was KMart could not sustain payments to
the owners that were collecting pensions. So you look for a profitable
company to help pay costs that the family members pensions would not
affect. Enter Sears.



Amazon has set the bar very high for very fast delivery, great
pricing, and painless returns ... all from your living room. Some
traditional vendors figured this out. Some - Sears as one example -
did not. They're done for.

Capitalism and markets seek efficiency and punish the lack thereof
mercilessly. Creative Destruction is bad for individual actors,
but good for the marketplace overall.


While all of what you have said plays a factor, the problem started 25
years ago and it was not related to pricing, competition, or product
quality.


I recall buying a sandblaster at a relatively new Sears store about
25/30 years ago. I looked for a salesman to sell me the thing for over
a half our. Finally I somehow found a manager bouncing around and
raised hell with him, asked him how long he thought they would be in
business if no one could find a salesman. Place closed about 3 years
later.


Not every store has a good location or a smart manager. One store does
not reflect the sum of the stores. Remember Woolco? The Woolco store
in Corpus Christi, TX would still be open today if it could have
continued to operate. I worked there when I was going to school. It
was not unusual at all for an ambulance to show up every weekend to haul
some one away. The store was so crowded that people passed out, no
kidding. Woolco was one of the first big stores to close.


Store anagers have very limited power, these days. Their weekly (even
hourly) payrol is often fixed by corporate. Inventory and shelf space
is also often dictated by corporate, even though the store manager may
understand his customers better.




Also, about 2 years ago I needed some shelf brackets. Sears had them
for .79 cents apiece. I asked if they were mis-priced, as they should
be about a nickel each. Found them on line, 25 for $1.49.


You can always find a better deal but there is a price to pay for
getting the product right now vs. tomorrow or later.

I was reading that ACE hardware and Aldi were a couple of brand stores
that are doing well and growing. I went to ACE hardware a month ago to
buy 8 magnetic cabinet door catches. 8 would have cost me $26. I drove
4 miles north and got the 8 catches at HD for $3.


There is one ACE store locally. It's OK but their inventory is often
lacking. They seem to want to sell Green Eggs and accessories, Yeti
coolers, and such, rather than hardware. They do have some _way_
overpriced tools. BTW, the local HD and Lowes hardware sections
aren't any better.


When you have fools running a business, competition will kill you
eventually.


True but there are many more factors the will sink you.

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On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 18:55:28 -0500, woodchucker
wrote:

On 1/6/2017 4:00 PM, Jack wrote:
On 1/6/2017 10:57 AM, John McCoy wrote:

I think Sears will go out of business shortly.


I agree with you. I don't think they have a clue how to
solve their problems - they're still trying to figure out
"how do we compete with Walmart", when the world has moved
on and the real competition is the likes of Dollar General
(and, of course, Amazon).


I recently mentioned I was looking to replace my Sony earphones. Amazon
doubled the price from $14 to $27, plus shipping. I finally found them
online at Walmart for $14 and free shipping. Walmart knows whats up,
and if Amazon isn't careful, it will be in the bag with Sears/Kmart.



I don't think so. I have a peeve with Amazon. Originally free shipping
over $25.. then they moved it to $35, and quickly thereafter to $49... I
understand the $35, but the $49 was not necessary. It was to make you
buy into PRIME.. and that's where my disdain lies. I understood when
they said in order for them to remain profitable they had to move to
$35.. That I got..


I just keep adding stuff to my cart until it gets to the $49
threshold. It's really not that much money.


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On Thu, 05 Jan 2017 23:37:00 -0500, wrote:

On 06 Jan 2017 04:03:05 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

wrote in
m:



Closing a bunch on stores too, it will not belong till it goes under.

http://fortune.com/2017/01/05/sears-kmart-closings/



I heard that they were considering groceries ...
" stick a fork in that one - I think it's done .. "
John T.


Sears struck me as a company that didn't realize who their competition
was. Prices/quality just aren't competitive with other stores,
especially on common hand tools like levels.

Puckdropper

You mean they didn't play the "compete on price only" game???
Sears didn't kill sears. Nor did Walmart. Nor did the Internet. The
North American Public killed Sears. And are the poorer for it, when
you get right down to brass tacks.


Not buying that story. Sears has been dying for at least 30 years.

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On 06 Jan 2017 05:34:59 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

wrote in news:ij7u6ctqak1ll96a1qjl9p96drgn4pj8jq@
4ax.com:

On 06 Jan 2017 04:03:05 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

Sears struck me as a company that didn't realize who their competition
was. Prices/quality just aren't competitive with other stores,
especially on common hand tools like levels.

Puckdropper

You mean they didn't play the "compete on price only" game???
Sears didn't kill sears. Nor did Walmart. Nor did the Internet. The
North American Public killed Sears. And are the poorer for it, when
you get right down to brass tacks.


Sears killed Sears. They might have gotten the North American Public to
do the actual work, but they got themselves into this mess.

Here's the thing: If you set yourself up just like the others playing the
compete on price game, people will respond like you're playing that game.
If your prices are higher for the same quality item, your value is lower
and people will go where the value is higher. How does Sears make up the
missing value? Well, it used to be momentum and reputation... but that's
good for only a decade or two. "Guaranteed Forever" sold a ton of
Craftsman tools, but they've been shying away from that as well.


+1

Are we poorer for it? Perhaps for a while, but if there's a demand
someone will fill the "Walmart/Lowe's" crossover store segment. Thing
is, I just don't see it with the way that Walmart & Lowe's are all over
the place.


Make that +2
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On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 15:13:06 -0500, Keith Nuttle
wrote:

On 1/6/2017 12:15 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 1/5/17 11:34 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
wrote in news:ij7u6ctqak1ll96a1qjl9p96drgn4pj8jq@
4ax.com:

On 06 Jan 2017 04:03:05 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

Sears struck me as a company that didn't realize who their
competition was. Prices/quality just aren't competitive with
other stores, especially on common hand tools like levels.

Puckdropper
You mean they didn't play the "compete on price only" game??? Sears
didn't kill sears. Nor did Walmart. Nor did the Internet. The North
American Public killed Sears. And are the poorer for it, when you
get right down to brass tacks.


Sears killed Sears. They might have gotten the North American Public
to do the actual work, but they got themselves into this mess.

Here's the thing: If you set yourself up just like the others playing
the compete on price game, people will respond like you're playing
that game. If your prices are higher for the same quality item, your
value is lower and people will go where the value is higher. How
does Sears make up the missing value? Well, it used to be momentum
and reputation... but that's good for only a decade or two.
"Guaranteed Forever" sold a ton of Craftsman tools, but they've been
shying away from that as well.

Are we poorer for it? Perhaps for a while, but if there's a demand
someone will fill the "Walmart/Lowe's" crossover store segment.
Thing is, I just don't see it with the way that Walmart & Lowe's are
all over the place.

Puckdropper


Like Radio Shack, they tried to stick with an outdated model and refused
to move from it until the market had passed them in the dust.

Sears was stuck in an "everything in one place" model that worked great
when people shopped once a week or less and had to plan a trip to do it.

When everybody became mobile and specialty stores started to dominate
the market, Sears stayed with their old, outdated model and were trapped
in denial. People no longer wanted to go to one store for everything.
They wanted to go to a clothing store (or several) for clothes, they
wanted to go to the huge electronics store for that stuff, they wanted
to go to the huge hardware store for tools, etc, etc.

What we complain about now, because we can do it all at home on Amazon,
was empowering and adventurous at the time. More choices, better
prices, price matching, all that stuff gave the consumer a sense of
having the upper hand. It was a game to win and you felt like you
accomplished something by driving around and finding the best deal.
Commissioned salespeople didn't help their cause either.

Sears never "got it" and never would. Even when Sears tried to play the
"price match" game, it was underhanded and deceitful. If they carried a
certain brand of widget, they'd force the manufacturer to change the
model number just enough (like adding a single digit suffix) so that
they could refuse to price match because "it wasn't the same model."

I would agree that the North American Public if it weren't for the fact
that all these other retailers were in the game, playing by the same
rules and they succeeded. No, Sears is just another wagon maker trying
to convince people they don't need a car.


Sears is not alone in failing to understand the current marketing needs.
I was in a well known store that has announced the closing of a lot of
stores. It is a huge mall store on multiple levels.

We tried to buy something and after wandering the hole floor actually
found one person at a cash register who could make the sale. They don't
understand that if there is no one to make the sale the sale will not
happen.

On the other side of this I don't think that the electronic store will
ever take over the world. It is just like the death of the Desktop.
While the PC does not have the market share they once have there still
is a demand for them.

The reason that that e shopping will never replace the store, is the
reason that we were out shopping this morning. I bought a garment of
clothing that was of a marked size. I have worn this size for decades.
That garment did not fit. We had to go to the store and try on several
different sizes to find the garment in a size that fits. You can not go
down to the store and buy a pair of pants, with out trying them on.


The same could be said for shoes, though a *lot* of people buy shoes
online. In fact, if it weren't for online shoe stores (Amazon,
mostly), I'd be barefoot. I haven't found a local store that sells my
size for over thirty years. Wearing shoes that were too small was
getting really old. e-tailers fixed the problem.


When it comes to hardware, many times the specification for the item are
incomplete or miss leading. They only way you can get what you want is
to see it "in the flesh" look at the item turn it around to find if the
item has what you want.

On this line I have seen some neat things on line. But when you actually
get it, the dimensions have been miss represented and it is just two
large/small for the purpose intended.


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On 06 Jan 2017 23:54:16 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

John McCoy wrote in
1:


Probably worth noting (since we're all dudes here) that this
is something women have suffered with for years. No two makers
of ladieswear use quite the same set of sizes - my girlfriend
can be a 4, 6, or 8, a XS, S, or M, and never knows until she
starts trying stuff on.

John


It's the same way with shoes. People keep insisting shoe sizes are the
same, but that just doesn't match my reality. I just sent back a size 9
boot to trade for an 8.5, but I have a 9.5 shoe that fits perfectly. The
boots I'm wearing now are 10's.

If I had my way about it, the foot would be measured and the shoe would
be specified to fit the measurements of the foot. The dimensions would
be inches or centimeters, not whatever measurement the manufacturer
decided to use today. Now you know your 25.5cm by 7.76cm (length by max
width across the ball of the foot) foot will likely match a 26cmx8cm
shoe.


That really doesn't work either. Width matters and even that doesn't
tell everything. I wear 6E shoes, not because my foot is
exceptionally wide, rather because my instep is very high. There are
very few shoe brands that leave enough material to get around my foot.


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On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 18:50:15 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 1/6/2017 2:49 PM, wrote:
On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 10:15:58 AM UTC-6, John McCoy wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote in
:

They missed the boat a long time ago. Sers had a thriving catalog
business. They should have turned that into something like Amazon
before Amazon started up.

Hah, I just posted a long post saying the same thing before
reading this one. You're quite correct in that thought.

John


Not to disparage you guys, but you are basically saying Sears should have been able to predict the future. Everything would be better if we could all do that. Sears did not predict the future so they did not use their catalog business to become the major retail seller of the future. If that is the logic you are using then we are all idiots because we did not invent Apple before Jobs and Wozniak did in 1976. Why didn't you know computers and mobile phones and online was the future? Are you stupid? Who sitting here today knew that buying stuff from home using a computer was the future? Shopping in stores was out?


When the future was already happening around them they still did
nothing. Yes, that is stupid. Even WalMart was late to the e-commerce
game and recently invested in (bought?) jet.com so they can catch up.
Check out the JC Penney web site to see a useless disaster. Sears is
just a link for items sold by others.


JCPenney has been a zombie for a decade or more. They were losing
money because people figured out that you don't buy anything there at
full price - wait for the sale. A new CEO decided to change that, so
get rid of all the sales. ...and the customers, too.

When the world shifted to using computers, Sears, Macy, Penny started to
investigate upgrading to electric typewriters.

Unlike Wozniak I did not have the ability to invent a PC, but I did
start using one in the 1980's. Some simple automated reports we use at
work today are descendants of the DOS things I did back then.

You don't have to invent technology to embrace and use it.

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On Thu, 05 Jan 2017 23:33:07 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 05 Jan 2017 21:21:28 -0500,
wrote:

On Thu, 5 Jan 2017 20:58:23 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 1/5/2017 8:25 PM,
wrote:

What value? Liability for rent I can see but the era of the mall is over.


I did say "I don't think malls are the gathering place they used to be." To me that means exactly the same thing as "the era of the mall is over." The value, or maybe old value, of Sears is its real estate value. I am aware malls are not really the shopping centers they used to be. But all that real estate in every state in retail locations has value. Despite the prevalence of online shopping, the way I do a lot of shopping too, actual real estate space is still needed and valuable. There is still far more in person retail space shopping than all online shopping combined. Believe it or not. Add up all the grocery store, gas station, hardware store, Wal-Mart shopping I do in a year, and it is a lot more than all online shopping I do. Suspect that is identical for everyone else. Everyone talks about online shopping, but it will never ever replace in person shopping.


I don't know how much real estate Sears owns, but mall space is usually
leased. They may have more liability to the end of the lease that what
the space is worth.

I agree that retail will never disappear, but look around at how much
empty space is available. how many malls have empty spots? I know of
three stip malls built about 8 or 9 years ago. One is 100% empty, the
other two are 75% empty.


Around here, the more "modern" strip malls seem to be doing fine. The
ones that have been let go, well, their anchor is a Good Will. A few
malls were completely rebuilt three or four years ago. They're doing
fine, too. There aren't any indoor malls in the immediate area. I
think the closest is about 25mi (the opposite direction of our normal
shopping).

Up here the big malls are doing relatively well. Our local
"regional" mall has anchore space empty due to the collape od Target's
Canadian opperations. The big one across town is pretty well full -
but the Sears store is flounderinf with Walmart at the other end of
the mall. The Bay is doing well in both malls. These are indoor "all
weather" malls and will be linked by the new "rapid transit" rail
system "ION" which is under construction and delayed by Bombardier's
rail-car devision.


I think the difference between the success of strip vs. indoor
megamalls is weather. You have too much of it. ;-) The preferred
mall, here, resembles a downtown of fifty years ago. The stores line
the center, divided street (usually cobble stone) with on-street
parking. These all seem to have 100% occupancy. They tend to be
upscale stores.
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On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 18:09:06 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 16:44:02 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote in
:

I don't know how much real estate Sears owns, but mall space is
usually leased. They may have more liability to the end of the lease
that what the space is worth.


Today Sears directly owns virtually no real estate, since
they restructured most of it into an REIT (which they still
mostly own, so indirectly they own the real estate). I have
read that around 1/3 of their stores were owned, rather than
leased.

I agree that retail will never disappear, but look around at how much
empty space is available. how many malls have empty spots? I know of
three stip malls built about 8 or 9 years ago. One is 100% empty, the
other two are 75% empty.


Two different expressions of the same problem...for big malls,
they got way over built in the 80's, and that situation is
slowly correcting itself. Around here about half the malls
that existed in the 80's have been torn down or repurposed,
the remaining half are doing well, since supply now matches
demand (more or less).

Strip malls are cyclical - there will be a shortage of strip
mall space, and several developers will rush in to build new
ones at the same time. Then there's a glut, and most of the
new space sits empty. Eventually demand will catch up with
supply, and then a new set of developers will build a new
surplus of strip space to sit empty for 3 or 4 years.

John

Around here the new ones fill up - and the old ones sit empty -----


I wonder how many of the "old ones" are filled with asbestos.
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On 06 Jan 2017 03:41:11 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote in
:


What value? Liability for rent I can see but the era of the mall is
over.

Going back some years we used to go to the mall a couple of times a
month to shop, maybe have lunch or at least a snack. I bet it has
been 3 years since I set foot in a mall, but less than a week since I
made a purchase on line. Sales on line are up 17% last year according
to NBC news.

Amazon also lets me place orders in my underwear. Macy's frowns upon
it.


Malls are now all about the shallow side of the human: cell phones,
clothes, etc. The stores that capture and captivate your attention are
rare. There used to be a Radioshack in every mall (you've got questions,
we've got cell phones!), as well as a KB Toys. Some still have
bookstores, but even they are going to standalone stores.


The "better" malls, here, do. Mostly B&N (Walden Books went under a
long time ago).

I bet Macy's would let you place orders without underwear on. Never seen
"no shoes, no shirt, no underwear, no service." (I have seen "no shoes,
no shirt, no pants, no service.") :-)


Amazon isn't so narrow minded, either. ;-)
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On 1/6/17 10:45 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 19:34:58 -0500,
wrote:

On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 15:52:47 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 1/6/2017 3:00 PM, Jack wrote:
On 1/6/2017 10:57 AM, John McCoy wrote:

I think Sears will go out of business shortly.

I agree with you. I don't think they have a clue how to
solve their problems - they're still trying to figure out
"how do we compete with Walmart", when the world has moved on
and the real competition is the likes of Dollar General (and,
of course, Amazon).

I recently mentioned I was looking to replace my Sony
earphones. Amazon doubled the price from $14 to $27, plus
shipping. I finally found them online at Walmart for $14 and
free shipping. Walmart knows whats up, and if Amazon isn't
careful, it will be in the bag with Sears/Kmart.




Not everything purchased through Amazon is supplied or sold by
Amazon. There are thousands of retailers selling their goods on
Amazon and they ship direct from their stores, and they have all
different prices and many are not even in the ball park of being
competitively priced.

But being aligned with Amazon, the (sheeple) public are convinced
they are getting the deal of the century - just because they bought
it online from Amazon - - - - - - .


Sure. Sometimes paying the $13 is less painful than spending a day
finding the cheapest price.


Not only that, but many times you do indeed get the best price.
If you happen to be within a certain distance of a warehouse you can get
same day delivery.
I had a friend who ordered a printer and had it delivered to his door
two hours later.
He went on Amazon and spent about 15 minutes finding the printer he
needed at the best price, hit a button and had it on his door step 2
hours later.
He could've spent two hours driving around town, from store to store,
wasting gas, wasting time, getting ****ed off in traffic, and gotten the
same printer, maybe at the same price.
But no, he was sitting at home, in his studio, making money, no gas, no
driving, no frustration, and the printer was at his front door in two
hours.

In a way Amazon is merging new school and old school. There was a time
when groceries and drug stores, and appliance stores delivered things to
your home and it was considered normal. Amazon is bringing that back
along with everything that is new in technology and consumerism.


--

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--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply



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wrote in
:

On 06 Jan 2017 23:54:16 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:



It's the same way with shoes. People keep insisting shoe sizes are
the same, but that just doesn't match my reality. I just sent back a
size 9 boot to trade for an 8.5, but I have a 9.5 shoe that fits
perfectly. The boots I'm wearing now are 10's.

If I had my way about it, the foot would be measured and the shoe
would be specified to fit the measurements of the foot. The
dimensions would be inches or centimeters, not whatever measurement
the manufacturer decided to use today. Now you know your 25.5cm by
7.76cm (length by max width across the ball of the foot) foot will
likely match a 26cmx8cm shoe.


That really doesn't work either. Width matters and even that doesn't
tell everything. I wear 6E shoes, not because my foot is
exceptionally wide, rather because my instep is very high. There are
very few shoe brands that leave enough material to get around my foot.


So we'll have to add a few numbers to the shoe designation. No matter
the system, there will always be people who have difficult feet to fit.
My intention is to be able to measure the foot using standardized units
rather than some number and a width code that means "doesn't not fit bad
enough to do something about it."

Puckdropper
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Markem wrote in
:

There is an Irish shoe maker who will take a mold of your foot, make a
last and make your shoes. Cost though...


Yeah, designing a pair of shoes from scratch is hard. (Designing anything
from scratch is hard.) However, once you make a design and learn how to do
variations of it, it shouldn't be that hard to customize the fit. It was
$100 well spent to have Graf customize my skates so they fit my feet.

Sometimes, I don't care about the price. Just give me a thing that's top
quality and fits! (While I don't care about the price, I do care about not
throwing money away.)

Puckdropper
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On 1/6/2017 10:41 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 16:01:39 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 1/6/2017 3:13 PM, Jack wrote:
On 1/6/2017 2:28 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/6/2017 10:56 AM, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
On 01/05/2017 03:54 PM, Leon wrote:
ears cannot survive at this rate, thank you K-Mart.

This has little to do with K-Mart. These traditional retailers
are getting their lunch handed to them because they did not
adapt to the world of eCommerce in a timely and effective way.

KMart needed extra funds, more money than their spectacular profits
could provide back in the early 90's. They needed funds to offset the
extremely high pension payments that retiring family owners were
collecting. As profitable as it was KMart could not sustain payments to
the owners that were collecting pensions. So you look for a profitable
company to help pay costs that the family members pensions would not
affect. Enter Sears.



Amazon has set the bar very high for very fast delivery, great
pricing, and painless returns ... all from your living room. Some
traditional vendors figured this out. Some - Sears as one example -
did not. They're done for.

Capitalism and markets seek efficiency and punish the lack thereof
mercilessly. Creative Destruction is bad for individual actors,
but good for the marketplace overall.


While all of what you have said plays a factor, the problem started 25
years ago and it was not related to pricing, competition, or product
quality.

I recall buying a sandblaster at a relatively new Sears store about
25/30 years ago. I looked for a salesman to sell me the thing for over
a half our. Finally I somehow found a manager bouncing around and
raised hell with him, asked him how long he thought they would be in
business if no one could find a salesman. Place closed about 3 years
later.


Not every store has a good location or a smart manager. One store does
not reflect the sum of the stores. Remember Woolco? The Woolco store
in Corpus Christi, TX would still be open today if it could have
continued to operate. I worked there when I was going to school. It
was not unusual at all for an ambulance to show up every weekend to haul
some one away. The store was so crowded that people passed out, no
kidding. Woolco was one of the first big stores to close.


Store anagers have very limited power, these days. Their weekly (even
hourly) payrol is often fixed by corporate. Inventory and shelf space
is also often dictated by corporate, even though the store manager may
understand his customers better.


Exactly, store manager does not mean what it used to mean. They
probably have a key, I'm not sure what else. ;~)





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Default Sears to sell Craftsman to Stanley/B&D

On 1/6/2017 5:47 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 1/6/2017 4:13 PM, Jack wrote:
On 1/6/2017 2:28 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/6/2017 10:56 AM, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
On 01/05/2017 03:54 PM, Leon wrote:
ears cannot survive at this rate, thank you K-Mart.

This has little to do with K-Mart. These traditional retailers
are getting their lunch handed to them because they did not
adapt to the world of eCommerce in a timely and effective way.

KMart needed extra funds, more money than their spectacular profits
could provide back in the early 90's. They needed funds to offset the
extremely high pension payments that retiring family owners were
collecting. As profitable as it was KMart could not sustain payments to
the owners that were collecting pensions. So you look for a profitable
company to help pay costs that the family members pensions would not
affect. Enter Sears.



Amazon has set the bar very high for very fast delivery, great
pricing, and painless returns ... all from your living room. Some
traditional vendors figured this out. Some - Sears as one example -
did not. They're done for.

Capitalism and markets seek efficiency and punish the lack thereof
mercilessly. Creative Destruction is bad for individual actors,
but good for the marketplace overall.


While all of what you have said plays a factor, the problem started 25
years ago and it was not related to pricing, competition, or product
quality.


I recall buying a sandblaster at a relatively new Sears store about
25/30 years ago. I looked for a salesman to sell me the thing for over
a half our. Finally I somehow found a manager bouncing around and
raised hell with him, asked him how long he thought they would be in
business if no one could find a salesman. Place closed about 3 years
later.

Also, about 2 years ago I needed some shelf brackets. Sears had them
for .79 cents apiece. I asked if they were mis-priced, as they should
be about a nickel each. Found them on line, 25 for $1.49.

When you have fools running a business, competition will kill you
eventually.

Shelf brackets for a nickel apiece 2 years ago??? Maybe 50 years ago



LOL, the hooks are 15 cents each.
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On 1/6/2017 6:13 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 1/6/2017 4:20 PM, John McCoy wrote:


Of course, having the albatros of K-Mart hanging around their
neck hasn't helped.

John


But K-Mart bought Sears. Double albatross. K-Mart was always a
discounter but maybe 10 or so years ago they seemed to carry cheaper,
lower quality merchandise.



10 years ago? ROTFL... I remember in 1974 being disgusted with the
crap that KMart sold, I was 19.


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On 1/6/2017 6:34 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 15:52:47 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 1/6/2017 3:00 PM, Jack wrote:
On 1/6/2017 10:57 AM, John McCoy wrote:

I think Sears will go out of business shortly.

I agree with you. I don't think they have a clue how to
solve their problems - they're still trying to figure out
"how do we compete with Walmart", when the world has moved
on and the real competition is the likes of Dollar General
(and, of course, Amazon).

I recently mentioned I was looking to replace my Sony earphones. Amazon
doubled the price from $14 to $27, plus shipping. I finally found them
online at Walmart for $14 and free shipping. Walmart knows whats up,
and if Amazon isn't careful, it will be in the bag with Sears/Kmart.




Not everything purchased through Amazon is supplied or sold by Amazon.
There are thousands of retailers selling their goods on Amazon and they
ship direct from their stores, and they have all different prices and
many are not even in the ball park of being competitively priced.

But being aligned with Amazon, the (sheeple) public are convinced
they are getting the deal of the century - just because they bought it
online from Amazon - - - - - - .



This is true but it is staring you in the face most of the time. Often
you see the words, may be at a lower price by others. Click the link
and the pricing goes all over the spectrum.
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On 1/6/2017 10:45 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 19:34:58 -0500,
wrote:

On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 15:52:47 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 1/6/2017 3:00 PM, Jack wrote:
On 1/6/2017 10:57 AM, John McCoy wrote:

I think Sears will go out of business shortly.

I agree with you. I don't think they have a clue how to
solve their problems - they're still trying to figure out
"how do we compete with Walmart", when the world has moved
on and the real competition is the likes of Dollar General
(and, of course, Amazon).

I recently mentioned I was looking to replace my Sony earphones. Amazon
doubled the price from $14 to $27, plus shipping. I finally found them
online at Walmart for $14 and free shipping. Walmart knows whats up,
and if Amazon isn't careful, it will be in the bag with Sears/Kmart.




Not everything purchased through Amazon is supplied or sold by Amazon.
There are thousands of retailers selling their goods on Amazon and they
ship direct from their stores, and they have all different prices and
many are not even in the ball park of being competitively priced.

But being aligned with Amazon, the (sheeple) public are convinced
they are getting the deal of the century - just because they bought it
online from Amazon - - - - - - .


Sure. Sometimes paying the $13 is less painful than spending a day
finding the cheapest price.

Exactly, your time, retired or not is worth something.
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On 1/6/2017 6:43 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 1/6/17 5:55 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 1/6/2017 4:00 PM, Jack wrote:
On 1/6/2017 10:57 AM, John McCoy wrote:

I think Sears will go out of business shortly.

I agree with you. I don't think they have a clue how to
solve their problems - they're still trying to figure out
"how do we compete with Walmart", when the world has moved
on and the real competition is the likes of Dollar General
(and, of course, Amazon).

I recently mentioned I was looking to replace my Sony earphones. Amazon
doubled the price from $14 to $27, plus shipping. I finally found them
online at Walmart for $14 and free shipping. Walmart knows whats up,
and if Amazon isn't careful, it will be in the bag with Sears/Kmart.



I don't think so. I have a peeve with Amazon. Originally free shipping
over $25.. then they moved it to $35, and quickly thereafter to $49... I
understand the $35, but the $49 was not necessary. It was to make you
buy into PRIME.. and that's where my disdain lies. I understood when
they said in order for them to remain profitable they had to move to
$35.. That I got..


I bought Prime and will never look back.
I think I got my money's worth in the first month.
Worth every penny and more.



Me too, especially considering the Prime TV shows, not to mention the
second day free shipping. The free over "what ever amount" typically
took at least 5 days.
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On 1/6/2017 10:47 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 18:55:28 -0500, woodchucker
wrote:

On 1/6/2017 4:00 PM, Jack wrote:
On 1/6/2017 10:57 AM, John McCoy wrote:

I think Sears will go out of business shortly.

I agree with you. I don't think they have a clue how to
solve their problems - they're still trying to figure out
"how do we compete with Walmart", when the world has moved
on and the real competition is the likes of Dollar General
(and, of course, Amazon).

I recently mentioned I was looking to replace my Sony earphones. Amazon
doubled the price from $14 to $27, plus shipping. I finally found them
online at Walmart for $14 and free shipping. Walmart knows whats up,
and if Amazon isn't careful, it will be in the bag with Sears/Kmart.



I don't think so. I have a peeve with Amazon. Originally free shipping
over $25.. then they moved it to $35, and quickly thereafter to $49... I
understand the $35, but the $49 was not necessary. It was to make you
buy into PRIME.. and that's where my disdain lies. I understood when
they said in order for them to remain profitable they had to move to
$35.. That I got..


I just keep adding stuff to my cart until it gets to the $49
threshold. It's really not that much money.



LOL, that strategy payed off for them in your case. ;~) I have been
tempted to do that on occasion and think to my self, am I really saving,
money and or time, by buying from Amazon if I spend more than I intended?

With Prime I buy only what I need at the time. If I make 3 separate
orders in one day they still ship for free.

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On 1/6/2017 5:07 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 16:14:25 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
wrote:

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in news:QZOdnbpFJasTtvLFnZ2dnUU7-
:

On 1/5/2017 10:37 PM,
wrote:

Sears didn't kill sears. Nor did Walmart. Nor did the Internet. The
North American Public killed Sears. And are the poorer for it, when
you get right down to brass tacks.

I believe it was merging with KMart that killed Sears. KMart had bad
deals going back in the early 90's.


KMart was the "coup de grace" - and a great lesson in how to
use bankruptcy court to avoid all your mistakes and make a
fortune from other people's money - but Sears's problems go
way back before that.

Sears was once what Amazon is today - you could buy anything
from them. Mail in your order, and in a week or two go down
to the Railway Express Agency(*) and pick up your package.
With the arrival of mall culture in the 50's and 60's, Sears
let the catalog business fade away, and became just like a
hundred other department stores (most of which have long
since disappeared). Come the revival of mail-order, and
instead of Sears sitting pretty with an order processing and
shipping system already in place, they have nothing - and
the new guys take over that space.


You could by a house, a car, a motorcycle, all your furniture, all
your clothing, all your tools and hardware - virtually anything you
needed "on line" (the phone line) back in the early years of Sears.
They were WAY ahead of their time. They totally lost touch by racing
all of their "competition" to the bottom.



Yeahhhhh they dropped the house, car, motorcycle long before they had
any real competition.






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On 1/6/2017 5:54 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
John McCoy wrote in
:


Probably worth noting (since we're all dudes here) that this
is something women have suffered with for years. No two makers
of ladieswear use quite the same set of sizes - my girlfriend
can be a 4, 6, or 8, a XS, S, or M, and never knows until she
starts trying stuff on.

John


It's the same way with shoes. People keep insisting shoe sizes are the
same, but that just doesn't match my reality. I just sent back a size 9
boot to trade for an 8.5, but I have a 9.5 shoe that fits perfectly. The
boots I'm wearing now are 10's.

If I had my way about it, the foot would be measured and the shoe would
be specified to fit the measurements of the foot.


You CAN have your foot measured and a boot or shoe made to fit but I
don't think you would want to pay the price, at least $500, add another
thousand for boots.







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On 1/6/2017 7:38 PM, Markem wrote:
Snip


concerned.


My remembrance of Sears from childhood was walk into the Golf Mill
anchor and getting warm roasted cashews.



I remember the popcorn smell in Sears.
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On 1/6/2017 6:06 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 1/6/2017 3:46 PM, Leon wrote:


Not to disparage you guys, but you are basically saying Sears should
have been able to predict the future. Everything would be better if
we could all do that. Sears did not predict the future so they did
not use their catalog business to become the major retail seller of
the future. If that is the logic you are using then we are all idiots
because we did not invent Apple before Jobs and Wozniak did in 1976.
Why didn't you know computers and mobile phones and online was the
future? Are you stupid? Who sitting here today knew that buying
stuff from home using a computer was the future? Shopping in stores
was out?


I think you hit the nail on the head.

Monday morning quarter backing is easy but non provable.


No, this is not Monday morning, it is 16 years too late. Amazon stated
in 1994. Sears let many Mondays pass and is still not an internet
presence. They (and many others) ignored what was going on around them.

Auto dealers were losing ground and finally caught on a few years back.
My last car was bought at a dealer in 15 minutes after using on line
sources to get the best price. I sat down with the salesman he made an
offer. I told him what the numbers had to be and he said "no". I
showed him the numbers on my phone and in two minutes he met the deal.
The horseless carriage was just a novelty, as was the telephone,
television and most every advance and new technology.


I think you might have just caught on to the car buying technique. I
bought our Chevy PU that way, in 1997. And I had the deal before I
walked in the dealership.

I still have to test drive the vehicle and go through closing, I wish
that only took 15 minutes.


I'm going to check out them new fax machines. I understand you can send
copies of things in minutes to another machine.


LOL.... I remember about 20 years ago wondering why FAX was still being
used over e-mail. Only now is Fax falling to e-mail and PDF's.




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On 1/7/2017 9:40 AM, Leon wrote:
On 1/6/2017 10:47 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 18:55:28 -0500, woodchucker
wrote:

On 1/6/2017 4:00 PM, Jack wrote:
On 1/6/2017 10:57 AM, John McCoy wrote:

I think Sears will go out of business shortly.

I agree with you. I don't think they have a clue how to
solve their problems - they're still trying to figure out
"how do we compete with Walmart", when the world has moved
on and the real competition is the likes of Dollar General
(and, of course, Amazon).

I recently mentioned I was looking to replace my Sony earphones. Amazon
doubled the price from $14 to $27, plus shipping. I finally found
them
online at Walmart for $14 and free shipping. Walmart knows whats up,
and if Amazon isn't careful, it will be in the bag with Sears/Kmart.



I don't think so. I have a peeve with Amazon. Originally free shipping
over $25.. then they moved it to $35, and quickly thereafter to $49... I
understand the $35, but the $49 was not necessary. It was to make you
buy into PRIME.. and that's where my disdain lies. I understood when
they said in order for them to remain profitable they had to move to
$35.. That I got..


I just keep adding stuff to my cart until it gets to the $49
threshold. It's really not that much money.



LOL, that strategy payed off for them in your case. ;~) I have been
tempted to do that on occasion and think to my self, am I really saving,
money and or time, by buying from Amazon if I spend more than I intended?

With Prime I buy only what I need at the time. If I make 3 separate
orders in one day they still ship for free.


Are you really saving when you spend over $100 to join prime?
In my case I don't watch much TV, so I wouldn't benefit by the TV shows.
I prefer to spend it in the shop. I guess my wife would watch, but my
high speed is limited to 6mb as I live out in the boonies.

I have noticed that with my son's Prime there are a lot of items that
are ineligible to add to your cart on prime.. meaning you have to add
more items before they will ship that on prime.. I would have to look
back on my purchases to around april last year, but I had to pad an
order for them to ship cerain things even through prime. Even though I
had spent enough, those items did not add to the total b4 shipping. WTF!!!

I do think the 2 day is nice, he ordered a bunch of stuff for Christmas
and had it shipped here. Often it came before 8:30 in the morn.
Sometimes b4 8.

--
Jeff

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On 1/7/2017 10:05 AM, Leon wrote:
On 1/6/2017 6:06 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 1/6/2017 3:46 PM, Leon wrote:


Not to disparage you guys, but you are basically saying Sears should
have been able to predict the future. Everything would be better if
we could all do that. Sears did not predict the future so they did
not use their catalog business to become the major retail seller of
the future. If that is the logic you are using then we are all idiots
because we did not invent Apple before Jobs and Wozniak did in 1976.
Why didn't you know computers and mobile phones and online was the
future? Are you stupid? Who sitting here today knew that buying
stuff from home using a computer was the future? Shopping in stores
was out?


I think you hit the nail on the head.

Monday morning quarter backing is easy but non provable.


No, this is not Monday morning, it is 16 years too late. Amazon stated
in 1994. Sears let many Mondays pass and is still not an internet
presence. They (and many others) ignored what was going on around them.

Auto dealers were losing ground and finally caught on a few years back.
My last car was bought at a dealer in 15 minutes after using on line
sources to get the best price. I sat down with the salesman he made an
offer. I told him what the numbers had to be and he said "no". I
showed him the numbers on my phone and in two minutes he met the deal.
The horseless carriage was just a novelty, as was the telephone,
television and most every advance and new technology.


I think you might have just caught on to the car buying technique. I
bought our Chevy PU that way, in 1997. And I had the deal before I
walked in the dealership.

I still have to test drive the vehicle and go through closing, I wish
that only took 15 minutes.


I'm going to check out them new fax machines. I understand you can send
copies of things in minutes to another machine.


LOL.... I remember about 20 years ago wondering why FAX was still being
used over e-mail. Only now is Fax falling to e-mail and PDF's.


Fax has an advantage over email in that it's point to point.
So sending your SS # on a form is better done by Fax than email.

It's even more secure than a https form.


--
Jeff

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On 1/6/17 5:11 PM, woodchucker wrote:


I also fell prey to the Die Hard battery scam. My short lived very
expensive car battery, that died hard and the pro rating wound up
costing me heavily for another battery that lasted a short time. I
replaced that with an Exide and was happy (1980s). I remember reading a
few years later that there was a scam of used or dead batteries being
given as new.. it's so long ago, I am sketchy on the details. But they
were charged and did face the charges. They admitted nothing, but would
offer something to people who were affected... Guilty as far as I am
concerned.


Kind of a side note, but when I was in HS working at a local garage, we
always got a laugh whenever two cars would come in for service with a
Sears battery and IIRC, an Atlas battery. Back then, you had to check
the electrolyte levels and these batteries had the cell caps (one cap
covered 3 of the 6 cells) labeled with the brand.

The Sears batteries had the "Die" and "Hard" caps and the Atlas
batteries had the "Start" and "Fast" caps.

The joke came when we would switch two of the caps making one battery a
"Start Hard" and the other a "Die Fast".

Joke ended when the Boss man found out.... (We were young!)


-BR
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On 1/7/2017 10:05 AM, Leon wrote:

I think you might have just caught on to the car buying technique. I
bought our Chevy PU that way, in 1997. And I had the deal before I
walked in the dealership.

I still have to test drive the vehicle and go through closing, I wish
that only took 15 minutes.


I had the test drive a few months earlier. I took my Sonata to the
dealer for something and they said their was an upgrade for the ECU and
would like to do it. I gave the OK and shortly after they told me they
blew it out. For a loaner, they gave me a Genesis. I had an outing
with my wife planned for the next day so my test drive was about 150
miles.

When I decided to buy it was a matter of choosing color as I would get
the Ultra package. I like all the goodies and it has plenty of them.
I started with TruCar for price and talked to three dealers but went
back to my original dealer to buy.



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On 1/7/2017 9:21 AM, woodchucker wrote:
On 1/7/2017 9:40 AM, Leon wrote:
On 1/6/2017 10:47 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 18:55:28 -0500, woodchucker
wrote:

On 1/6/2017 4:00 PM, Jack wrote:
On 1/6/2017 10:57 AM, John McCoy wrote:

I think Sears will go out of business shortly.

I agree with you. I don't think they have a clue how to
solve their problems - they're still trying to figure out
"how do we compete with Walmart", when the world has moved
on and the real competition is the likes of Dollar General
(and, of course, Amazon).

I recently mentioned I was looking to replace my Sony earphones.
Amazon
doubled the price from $14 to $27, plus shipping. I finally found
them
online at Walmart for $14 and free shipping. Walmart knows whats up,
and if Amazon isn't careful, it will be in the bag with Sears/Kmart.



I don't think so. I have a peeve with Amazon. Originally free shipping
over $25.. then they moved it to $35, and quickly thereafter to
$49... I
understand the $35, but the $49 was not necessary. It was to make you
buy into PRIME.. and that's where my disdain lies. I understood when
they said in order for them to remain profitable they had to move to
$35.. That I got..

I just keep adding stuff to my cart until it gets to the $49
threshold. It's really not that much money.



LOL, that strategy payed off for them in your case. ;~) I have been
tempted to do that on occasion and think to my self, am I really saving,
money and or time, by buying from Amazon if I spend more than I intended?

With Prime I buy only what I need at the time. If I make 3 separate
orders in one day they still ship for free.


Are you really saving when you spend over $100 to join prime?
In my case I don't watch much TV, so I wouldn't benefit by the TV shows.
I prefer to spend it in the shop. I guess my wife would watch, but my
high speed is limited to 6mb as I live out in the boonies.


It's $99 per year. And yes I do save in shipping alone. The benefit is
2 day delivery at no extra cost and for us Prime TV. If we only got
Prime TV it would still be a deal compared to most any premium channel
that you pay extra for. IIRC Netflix is $10 per month and HULU is $9
per month.

Plus Prime includes Prime music, free unlimited photo storage for 5
extra people.

A free Kindle book each month.

Many e-versions of magazines are free with Prime using a Kindle app on
iOS or Android.

And Prime members get discount pricing on certain items that is not
available to the non Prime member. I got my Amazon Echo a few years ago
for $99.

Granted, Prime is not for everyone but it works out well for us.




I have noticed that with my son's Prime there are a lot of items that
are ineligible to add to your cart on prime.. meaning you have to add
more items before they will ship that on prime.. I would have to look
back on my purchases to around april last year, but I had to pad an
order for them to ship cerain things even through prime. Even though I
had spent enough, those items did not add to the total b4 shipping. WTF!!!


On certain inexpensive items and many pantry type items you have to have
a minimum for free 2 day shipping, I do not run into that very often.




I do think the 2 day is nice, he ordered a bunch of stuff for Christmas
and had it shipped here. Often it came before 8:30 in the morn.
Sometimes b4 8.


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woodchucker wrote in
:

Are you really saving when you spend over $100 to join prime?
In my case I don't watch much TV, so I wouldn't benefit by the TV
shows. I prefer to spend it in the shop. I guess my wife would watch,
but my high speed is limited to 6mb as I live out in the boonies.

I have noticed that with my son's Prime there are a lot of items that
are ineligible to add to your cart on prime.. meaning you have to add
more items before they will ship that on prime.. I would have to look
back on my purchases to around april last year, but I had to pad an
order for them to ship cerain things even through prime. Even though
I had spent enough, those items did not add to the total b4 shipping.
WTF!!!

I do think the 2 day is nice, he ordered a bunch of stuff for
Christmas and had it shipped here. Often it came before 8:30 in the
morn. Sometimes b4 8.


It's a fair question, and if it wasn't for the Instant Video (works just
fine on 6 mbps, it was usually decent on 3.) and maybe the music it
wouldn't be worth it. I love the free shipping and use it quite often,
but can wait another couple days for stuff to arrive.

The problem with the Instant Video and Music is that they're subscription
services. That means you can watch something until they take it away
from you. They might add it back later, but you'll never know because
you removed it from your watch/play lists because you couldn't use it any
more. It happens rather frequently.

Puckdropper
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Default Sears to sell Craftsman to Stanley/B&D

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:


You CAN have your foot measured and a boot or shoe made to fit but I
don't think you would want to pay the price, at least $500, add
another thousand for boots.



I have a tape measure. Tell me how long and how wide your shoes are at key
points and I'll measure my own foot. Use inches or centimeters, at least
they're standardized the world over.

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Default Sears to sell Craftsman to Stanley/B&D

On 1/6/2017 4:52 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/6/2017 3:00 PM, Jack wrote:
On 1/6/2017 10:57 AM, John McCoy wrote:

I think Sears will go out of business shortly.


I agree with you. I don't think they have a clue how to
solve their problems - they're still trying to figure out
"how do we compete with Walmart", when the world has moved
on and the real competition is the likes of Dollar General
(and, of course, Amazon).


I recently mentioned I was looking to replace my Sony earphones. Amazon
doubled the price from $14 to $27, plus shipping. I finally found them
online at Walmart for $14 and free shipping. Walmart knows whats up,
and if Amazon isn't careful, it will be in the bag with Sears/Kmart.




Not everything purchased through Amazon is supplied or sold by Amazon.


Amazon sells it for someone else. Some is stocked by Amazon, some is
not. It is all sold via Amazon.

There are thousands of retailers selling their goods on Amazon and they
ship direct from their stores, and they have all different prices and
many are not even in the ball park of being competitively priced.


Yes, same as Walmart. I bought my earphones via Walmart but they were
sold by someone else. In other words, Walmart has figured it out, Sears
has not, and Amazon best watch their butt, or will be toast, just like
Sears. If Amazon lets their retailers sell stuff at twice the price
Walmart retailers charge, what do you think will happen?

I once bought a lathe chuck from Amazon, when it came, it was in a
Harbor Freight box and had the Harbor Freight number on it. I stuck the
number in at HF site and up popped the exact same item for 30% less.
Made me chuckle as it was still cheap, but smart dude figured out to
list the item on Amazon and buy them at HF. He probably just ordered
from HF and had it sent to me, don't recall, but shows it pays not to
trust Amazon, not something a retailer should promote.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com
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