I need to buy a jointer, and haven't had much luck finding a used one.

So, I've been looking at the budget 6" jointers by Ridgid and Grizzly, in
the sub $600 range. Grizzly's new G0813/814 jointers aren't in stock yet,
and the shipping costs would make it more expensive. I could have the
Ridgid shipped to my local store for free, making it a bit cheaper.

Price aside, which would be the better jointer? Are there other brands in
that price range I should consider?

I don't have the space or the money for a larger 8" jointer.

Thanks,

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

On 2/13/2016 10:13 AM, HerHusband wrote:
I need to buy a jointer, and haven't had much luck finding a used one.

So, I've been looking at the budget 6" jointers by Ridgid and Grizzly, in
the sub $600 range. Grizzly's new G0813/814 jointers aren't in stock yet,
and the shipping costs would make it more expensive. I could have the
Ridgid shipped to my local store for free, making it a bit cheaper.

Price aside, which would be the better jointer? Are there other brands in
that price range I should consider?

I don't have the space or the money for a larger 8" jointer.

Thanks,

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com



I would say get as large as you can afford or have room for. I would
look for which might have longer beds. I had a short 6" jointer for
years. Mostly used it to tie the dog leash to. Several years ago I got
rid of it. It simply was too small. I would love to have a long bed
jointer but I have managed with out and I never buy rough cut lumber any
more. I use my track saw to straighten s2s when I buy that.

If you intend to use it a lot, one with the replaceable carbide cutters
might be a consideration. AND some joiners are now offering the throw
away replaceable blades similar to what is on the lunch box planers.
Use them, flip them and use again and then replace. I think those use
the Tersa knives. These are less expensive than the carbide
replacements but relatively easy to replace properly.

http://www.lagunatools.com/accessori...-planer-knives

On Saturday, February 13, 2016 at 10:16:13 AM UTC-6, HerHusband wrote:
I need to buy a jointer, and haven't had much luck finding a used one.

So, I've been looking at the budget 6" jointers by Ridgid and Grizzly, in
the sub $600 range. Grizzly's new G0813/814 jointers aren't in stock yet,
and the shipping costs would make it more expensive. I could have the
Ridgid shipped to my local store for free, making it a bit cheaper.

Price aside, which would be the better jointer? Are there other brands in
that price range I should consider?

I don't have the space or the money for a larger 8" jointer.

Thanks,

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com



I have a 6" Grizzly (earlier version of)

http://grizzly.com/products/6-Jointe...wn-Stand/G0813

and have absolutely no complaints. Would a larger one be "nice," do I need that extra width? Not really. So, the bottom line is, what do normally use a jointer for? Then buy accordingly.

On 2/13/2016 11:00 AM, Dr. Deb wrote:
On Saturday, February 13, 2016 at 10:16:13 AM UTC-6, HerHusband wrote:
I need to buy a jointer, and haven't had much luck finding a used one.

So, I've been looking at the budget 6" jointers by Ridgid and Grizzly, in
the sub $600 range. Grizzly's new G0813/814 jointers aren't in stock yet,
and the shipping costs would make it more expensive. I could have the
Ridgid shipped to my local store for free, making it a bit cheaper.

Price aside, which would be the better jointer? Are there other brands in
that price range I should consider?

I don't have the space or the money for a larger 8" jointer.

Thanks,

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com



I have a 6" Grizzly (earlier version of)

http://grizzly.com/products/6-Jointe...wn-Stand/G0813

and have absolutely no complaints. Would a larger one be "nice," do I need that extra width? Not really. So, the bottom line is, what do normally use a jointer for? Then buy accordingly.

Absolutely a good point. Buying a jointer to fit a location or space and
not to satisfy the need for one might be a disappointment. I know this
from experience.

On 02/13/2016 10:13 AM, HerHusband wrote:
I need to buy a jointer, and haven't had much luck finding a used one.

So, I've been looking at the budget 6" jointers by Ridgid and Grizzly, in
the sub $600 range. Grizzly's new G0813/814 jointers aren't in stock yet,
and the shipping costs would make it more expensive. I could have the
Ridgid shipped to my local store for free, making it a bit cheaper.

Price aside, which would be the better jointer? Are there other brands in
that price range I should consider?

I don't have the space or the money for a larger 8" jointer.


Hmmmm....I was going to suggest looking at Rikon but it appears they no
longer build the 20-110 and only have a little benchtop model now...

I "know nuthink!" of the Ridgid stuff (which, of course, is off-shore,
TTI which is owned by the parent also of Ryobi) so there's really
nothing of them related to the Ridgid pipe wrench outfit other than they
licensed the name.

Grizzly does have a good reputation amongst the importers for standing
behind their stuff's...

As others said, first really analyze what it is you think you'll be
doing with it and buy accordingly, rather than to fit something into a
niche corner in the shop.

--

On 2/13/2016 11:13 AM, HerHusband wrote:
I need to buy a jointer, and haven't had much luck finding a used one.

So, I've been looking at the budget 6" jointers by Ridgid and Grizzly, in
the sub $600 range. Grizzly's new G0813/814 jointers aren't in stock yet,
and the shipping costs would make it more expensive. I could have the
Ridgid shipped to my local store for free, making it a bit cheaper.

Price aside, which would be the better jointer? Are there other brands in
that price range I should consider?

I don't have the space or the money for a larger 8" jointer.

Thanks,

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com


Go big, go grizz 8" parallelogram.. or just 8" or more.
wider is better. I know I have a 6 and it's barely adequate, an 8" would
fit more needs. 12 perfect, but not reality.

--
Jeff

On 2/13/16 10:13 AM, HerHusband wrote:
I need to buy a jointer, and haven't had much luck finding a used one.

So, I've been looking at the budget 6" jointers by Ridgid and Grizzly, in
the sub $600 range. Grizzly's new G0813/814 jointers aren't in stock yet,
and the shipping costs would make it more expensive. I could have the
Ridgid shipped to my local store for free, making it a bit cheaper.

Price aside, which would be the better jointer? Are there other brands in
that price range I should consider?

I don't have the space or the money for a larger 8" jointer.

Thanks,

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com



Can you be entirely certain they aren't the same machines painted
differently and put on different stands?
Sometimes you can tell by looking up parts.

If not, I'd go for longest beds as others suggested.
Also, most powerful motor.
Best dust collection.
Ease of adjustability AND set-up-- not setting it up from out of the
box. Setting up everything to get perfect results: bed coplaner, knives
perfectly flat to beds, etc.
How easy is it to change knives?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

woodchucker wrote:
On 2/13/2016 11:13 AM, HerHusband wrote:
I need to buy a jointer, and haven't had much luck finding a used one.

So, I've been looking at the budget 6" jointers by Ridgid and
Grizzly, in
the sub $600 range. Grizzly's new G0813/814 jointers aren't in stock
yet,
and the shipping costs would make it more expensive. I could have the
Ridgid shipped to my local store for free, making it a bit cheaper.

Price aside, which would be the better jointer? Are there other
brands in
that price range I should consider?

I don't have the space or the money for a larger 8" jointer.

Thanks,

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com


Go big, go grizz 8" parallelogram.. or just 8" or more.
wider is better. I know I have a 6 and it's barely adequate, an 8"
would fit more needs. 12 perfect, but not reality.


This thread prompted me to go visit the Grizzly G490 8" jointer online.
Discontinued? Replaced with G490W. From a brief comparison of the
details:

G490 is rated 15Amp, G490W 12 Amps.
Cutterhead spead: G490 4800 RPM, G490W 5350 RPM, so
Cuts per minute 19200, verus 21400.
Table length has grown by 3/8" from 76 3/8" (long).
At first I though the W was for "White", but they appear to be the
identical,
I'm not sure what the W stands for?
Fence is identical size.
The shipping weight is listed as identical (562 pounds), but they may
not have
thoroughly updated the web site.
There was a small price increase ($30)
Table thickness is now 2 7/8" instead of 1 1/2" --ahh, there's the 'W'.
Table height (from ground) is now 3/8" lower.

Clearly this one has been on my radar screen for a while. It's still
unclear whether this will be the year...

Anyway, care to know which jointer *I* would choose? : ) I'm curious
whether Powermatic or Jet can even "compete" with a 2 7/8" table
thickness? Interesting that this spec. feature doesn't even make it
into their product description, but it's on the "specification sheet".
And some of you may already know how I am about cast iron... :: wiping
the saliva from my lips :: ; )

Bill

On Sat, 13 Feb 2016 16:13:14 -0000 (UTC)
HerHusband wrote:

Price aside, which would be the better jointer? Are there other
brands in that price range I should consider?

from what i have read here and elsewhere it seems that most stuff is
made by the same processes and techniques in different places in
china

so i really wonder how much difference there is grizzly vs rigid

i know you rulled out buying used due to availability but i would look
harder for something used for several reasons

On 02/13/2016 1:54 PM, Bill wrote:
....

whether Powermatic or Jet can even "compete" with a 2 7/8" table
thickness? Interesting that this spec. feature doesn't even make it into
their product description, but it's on the "specification sheet". And
some of you may already know how I am about cast iron... :: wiping the
saliva from my lips :: ; )

You do know that's only web depth, right?

--

On 2/13/2016 1:54 PM, Bill wrote:
woodchucker wrote:
On 2/13/2016 11:13 AM, HerHusband wrote:
I need to buy a jointer, and haven't had much luck finding a used one.

So, I've been looking at the budget 6" jointers by Ridgid and
Grizzly, in
the sub $600 range. Grizzly's new G0813/814 jointers aren't in stock
yet,
and the shipping costs would make it more expensive. I could have the
Ridgid shipped to my local store for free, making it a bit cheaper.

Price aside, which would be the better jointer? Are there other
brands in
that price range I should consider?

I don't have the space or the money for a larger 8" jointer.

Thanks,

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com


Go big, go grizz 8" parallelogram.. or just 8" or more.
wider is better. I know I have a 6 and it's barely adequate, an 8"
would fit more needs. 12 perfect, but not reality.


This thread prompted me to go visit the Grizzly G490 8" jointer online.
Discontinued? Replaced with G490W. From a brief comparison of the
details:

G490 is rated 15Amp, G490W 12 Amps.
Cutterhead spead: G490 4800 RPM, G490W 5350 RPM, so
Cuts per minute 19200, verus 21400.
Table length has grown by 3/8" from 76 3/8" (long).
At first I though the W was for "White", but they appear to be the
identical,
I'm not sure what the W stands for?
Fence is identical size.
The shipping weight is listed as identical (562 pounds), but they may
not have
thoroughly updated the web site.
There was a small price increase ($30)
Table thickness is now 2 7/8" instead of 1 1/2" --ahh, there's the 'W'.
Table height (from ground) is now 3/8" lower.

Clearly this one has been on my radar screen for a while. It's still
unclear whether this will be the year...

Anyway, care to know which jointer *I* would choose? : ) I'm curious
whether Powermatic or Jet can even "compete" with a 2 7/8" table
thickness? Interesting that this spec. feature doesn't even make it
into their product description, but it's on the "specification sheet".
And some of you may already know how I am about cast iron... :: wiping
the saliva from my lips :: ; )

Bill

I'm not sure table thickness guarantees quality of results. It could be
hollow under the edge, like the back side of it's fence and like many TS
tops.

BUT it looks decent. It certainly seems to be right for flattening 8"
material to to a certain length. ;~)

dpb wrote:
On 02/13/2016 1:54 PM, Bill wrote:
...

whether Powermatic or Jet can even "compete" with a 2 7/8" table
thickness? Interesting that this spec. feature doesn't even make it into
their product description, but it's on the "specification sheet". And
some of you may already know how I am about cast iron... :: wiping the
saliva from my lips :: ; )

You do know that's only web depth, right?

After looking at the picture a 2nd time, that's what I surmised. That
said, is this a valuable improvement? I couldn't locate comparable
specs for Shop Fox or Powermatic.

Bill

HerHusband wrote:
I need to buy a jointer, and haven't had much luck finding a used one.

So, I've been looking at the budget 6" jointers by Ridgid and
Grizzly, in the sub $600 range. Grizzly's new G0813/814 jointers
aren't in stock yet, and the shipping costs would make it more
expensive. I could have the Ridgid shipped to my local store for
free, making it a bit cheaper.

Price aside, which would be the better jointer? Are there other
brands in that price range I should consider?

If they were still being made, I would suggest Bridgewood, distributed by
Wilke Machinery but they are not, nor is Wilke Machinery still in business.
However, that is what I bought a dozen or more years ago because they were
very well made and gave the most bang for the buck.

If I had it to do over, I would buy none. Why? Because I rarely use it and
because I can do what it does in other ways. Consider...

Before you can join an edge, you must have a flat face. I can - and do -
get that with my drum sander. Normally, I do both sides of a board on the
sander (I start with rough lumber); at that point it is very unlikely that
either edge is at right angles to the faces so I skim off one edge on the
table saw, flip it and skim off the other edge.

IME, even rough lumber almost always has one edge that is suitable for
guiding on the saw fence. On the rare occasions that is not true, I will
use the joiner to nip off a bit so it is; however I could do the same thing
with a hand plane, or with a saw or router and straight edge.

I also use the sander for edges; it will only do up to 3" wide but is is
surprising how many parts are that ot less. For wider pieces, I could use
the joiner but I'm more likely to use my router table, especially on very
wide pieces, because I can run it flat rather than on edge.

In short, if I had to give up a tool, the joiner would go first; last would
be the drum sander. Yes, I'd dump my table saw before I gave up the sander.
Which doesn't mean you shouldn't buy a joiner, just saying. If I were you,
I'd not worry about width; as others have said, longest bed is best. Why
not worry about width? Because a joiner can give you a flat face but not
parallel ones...you need something else for that. Plus, because I wouldn't
run wide boards through a joiner without some sort of power feed.

On 02/13/2016 3:37 PM, Bill wrote:
dpb wrote:
On 02/13/2016 1:54 PM, Bill wrote:
...

whether Powermatic or Jet can even "compete" with a 2 7/8" table
thickness? Interesting that this spec. feature doesn't even make it into
their product description, but it's on the "specification sheet". And
some of you may already know how I am about cast iron... :: wiping the
saliva from my lips :: ; )

You do know that's only web depth, right?

After looking at the picture a 2nd time, that's what I surmised. That
said, is this a valuable improvement? I couldn't locate comparable specs
for Shop Fox or Powermatic.
....

I strongly doubt it's discernible to the end user...my guess would be
it's simply a production change, nothing more (or less, either, for that
matter).

That the overall weight didn't change noticeably means there's certainly
not more actually material mass; possibly they did get a little more
stiffness by slightly increasing depth dimension at the expense of
number or thickness of ribbing keeping overall material at essentially
the same weight. The advent of FEA is a great boon to let designers
optimize such things as resonances, stiffness, etc., etc., with minimum
weight. Computer time is quite cheap and models are able to be
extremely accurate any more. Don't know Grizz goes to such efforts but
wouldn't surprise me.

--

I need to buy a jointer, and haven't had much luck finding a used
one.
So, I've been looking at the budget 6" jointers by Ridgid and
Grizzly, in the sub $600 range. Grizzly's new G0813/814 jointers
aren't in stock yet, and the shipping costs would make it more
expensive. I could have the Ridgid shipped to my local store for
free, making it a bit cheaper.
Price aside, which would be the better jointer? Are there other
brands in that price range I should consider?
I don't have the space or the money for a larger 8" jointer.


I have a 6" Grizzly (earlier version of)
http://grizzly.com/products/6-Jointe...wn-Stand/G0813

I like the look of the newer Grizzly jointer, compared to the old one
with the controls up on a post. That just looks like an obstruction that
serves no other function than to place the controls up higher.

I have a G0555 Grizzly bandsaw that I've had a lot of trouble getting
aligned properly. Eventually had to drill out the riser holes to get the
adjustment I needed. So, that experience has left me a little leary of
Grizzly tools. Not enough to completely rule them out, but definitely
more cautious of the brand.

Would a larger one be "nice," do I need that extra width? Not really.

Many people recommend getting an 8" jointer, but I really don't see
myself needing that. I very rarely use boards larger than 6", unless I
have glued up panels or something. A 6" jointer should be more than
adequate for my needs.

what do you normally use a jointer for? Then buy accordingly.

The last few years I've started milling my own lumber. At first I was
just recycling old beams into new boards, but lately I've started sawing
trees into lumber and air-drying them. In every case, the boards are less
than 6" wide.

Until now, I've used a crude sled with my planer to flatten boards, but
it's a fairly tedious process.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

On 2/13/2016 3:57 PM, Electric Comet wrote:

i know you rulled out buying used due to availability but i would look
harder for something used for several reasons



Good thing you are keeping them reasons a secret too. If the general
public knew of them chaos would ensue.

On 2/13/2016 6:25 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/13/2016 3:57 PM, Electric Comet wrote:

i know you rulled out buying used due to availability but i would look
harder for something used for several reasons



Good thing you are keeping them reasons a secret too. If the general
public knew of them chaos would ensue.



Spewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww w...... on my screen
and ROTFLMAO!

He probably read that somewhere and can't remember if the reasons is
because,

A. Rubber does not make a good table saw top.

B. A drill often works better when spinning clockwise.

C. Things on the internet are better.

D. none of the above.

HerHusband wrote:
I need to buy a jointer, and haven't had much luck finding a used
one.
So, I've been looking at the budget 6" jointers by Ridgid and
Grizzly, in the sub $600 range. Grizzly's new G0813/814 jointers
aren't in stock yet, and the shipping costs would make it more
expensive. I could have the Ridgid shipped to my local store for
free, making it a bit cheaper.
Price aside, which would be the better jointer? Are there other
brands in that price range I should consider?
I don't have the space or the money for a larger 8" jointer.

I have a 6" Grizzly (earlier version of)
http://grizzly.com/products/6-Jointe...wn-Stand/G0813
I like the look of the newer Grizzly jointer, compared to the old one
with the controls up on a post. That just looks like an obstruction that
serves no other function than to place the controls up higher.

I have a G0555 Grizzly bandsaw that I've had a lot of trouble getting
aligned properly. Eventually had to drill out the riser holes to get the
adjustment I needed. So, that experience has left me a little leary of
Grizzly tools. Not enough to completely rule them out, but definitely
more cautious of the brand.

Would a larger one be "nice," do I need that extra width? Not really.
Many people recommend getting an 8" jointer, but I really don't see
myself needing that. I very rarely use boards larger than 6", unless I
have glued up panels or something. A 6" jointer should be more than
adequate for my needs.

what do you normally use a jointer for? Then buy accordingly.
The last few years I've started milling my own lumber. At first I was
just recycling old beams into new boards, but lately I've started sawing
trees into lumber and air-drying them. In every case, the boards are less
than 6" wide.
Maybe besides (or instead of) the width, think of the length of the
boards. "They say" you can joint a board up to 1.5 times, it's table
length (but that may be stretching it).


Until now, I've used a crude sled with my planer to flatten boards, but
it's a fairly tedious process.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

On 2/13/2016 6:03 PM, HerHusband wrote:
I need to buy a jointer, and haven't had much luck finding a used
one.
So, I've been looking at the budget 6" jointers by Ridgid and
Grizzly, in the sub $600 range. Grizzly's new G0813/814 jointers
aren't in stock yet, and the shipping costs would make it more
expensive. I could have the Ridgid shipped to my local store for
free, making it a bit cheaper.
Price aside, which would be the better jointer? Are there other
brands in that price range I should consider?
I don't have the space or the money for a larger 8" jointer.


I have a 6" Grizzly (earlier version of)
http://grizzly.com/products/6-Jointe...wn-Stand/G0813

I like the look of the newer Grizzly jointer, compared to the old one
with the controls up on a post. That just looks like an obstruction that
serves no other function than to place the controls up higher.
I have a Delta with the controls on a post. It's nice, but like you said
it gets in the way if you needed to bevel away from the cutter.
Generally you try to tilt the fence toward the cutter. But there was a
time that the grain would not allow me to flip it, so I needed to remove
the post.


I have a G0555 Grizzly bandsaw that I've had a lot of trouble getting
aligned properly. Eventually had to drill out the riser holes to get the
adjustment I needed. So, that experience has left me a little leary of
Grizzly tools. Not enough to completely rule them out, but definitely
more cautious of the brand.
Had the same problem with an American made Delta..

Would a larger one be "nice," do I need that extra width? Not really.

Many people recommend getting an 8" jointer, but I really don't see
myself needing that. I very rarely use boards larger than 6", unless I
have glued up panels or something. A 6" jointer should be more than
adequate for my needs.

what do you normally use a jointer for? Then buy accordingly.

The last few years I've started milling my own lumber. At first I was
just recycling old beams into new boards, but lately I've started sawing
trees into lumber and air-drying them. In every case, the boards are less
than 6" wide.
That's mostly when you'll need the width. Right now I have about 70
board feet of 4/4 tiger maple mostly wider than 6"
and I have some 8/4 and 10/4 tiger maple that is 12 or more inches wide.
(leg stock). I will use the jointer to rough a bit, and wind up doing
the rest by hand. Wish I had 8", and wish I had carbide spiral cutter.
I think the tear out would be minimized.


Until now, I've used a crude sled with my planer to flatten boards, but
it's a fairly tedious process.

Yes it is. But so is hand planning some type of wood. Others absolutely
require it.


Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com



--
Jeff

HerHusband wrote in
:

Would a larger one be "nice," do I need that extra width? Not
really.

Many people recommend getting an 8" jointer, but I really don't see
myself needing that. I very rarely use boards larger than 6", unless I
have glued up panels or something. A 6" jointer should be more than
adequate for my needs.

The big advantage of a 8" jointer is a longer bed. Everything
else being equal, the longer the bed the better results you get.

I will note, as I have a 6" jointer, that there seem to be an
amazing number of 6.5" wide boards in the world.

John

"dadiOH" wrote in :

Before you can join an edge, you must have a flat face. I can - and
do - get that with my drum sander.

OK, I'm a little confused here - how is that different from
running a board thru a planer? Seems like it would make it
smooth but not flat.

John

On 2/13/2016 10:17 PM, John McCoy wrote:
"dadiOH" wrote in :

Before you can join an edge, you must have a flat face. I can - and
do - get that with my drum sander.

OK, I'm a little confused here - how is that different from
running a board thru a planer? Seems like it would make it
smooth but not flat.

John



Obviously confused. Did he mention anything about a planer? I don't
believe that he said any thing about a drum sander being better suited
than a planer. He simply said, I can and do get a flat face with his
drum sander.

But to answer your question, the drum sander pretty much will do what a
planer will do except at a much slower pace. Given that, a rum sander
has many advantages over a planer.

John McCoy wrote:
"dadiOH" wrote in
:

Before you can join an edge, you must have a flat face. I can - and
do - get that with my drum sander.

OK, I'm a little confused here - how is that different from
running a board thru a planer? Seems like it would make it
smooth but not flat.

I don't have a planer, never used one but I suspect it is the same...

Run board through, concave side down to make convex side flat. Turn over,
run through to make concave side flat (and parallel).

Leon mentioned that drum sanders are slower and I imagine so. Still,I have
a couple of hundred feet of mahogany I have been surfacing as needed and I
can take off 1/16 per pass with #40 paper. Fast enough for me and no tear
out

On 2/14/2016 5:23 AM, dadiOH wrote:
John McCoy wrote:
"dadiOH" wrote in
:

Before you can join an edge, you must have a flat face. I can - and
do - get that with my drum sander.

OK, I'm a little confused here - how is that different from
running a board thru a planer? Seems like it would make it
smooth but not flat.

I don't have a planer, never used one but I suspect it is the same...

Run board through, concave side down to make convex side flat. Turn over,
run through to make concave side flat (and parallel).

Leon mentioned that drum sanders are slower and I imagine so. Still,I have
a couple of hundred feet of mahogany I have been surfacing as needed and I
can take off 1/16 per pass with #40 paper. Fast enough for me and no tear
out





What model drum sander do you have? I have a Performax 22-44 with a
relatively fine grit compared to 40 but wow 1/16" in a pass is pretty
aggressive by my standards. :~) And thinking I should get some 40 grit
paper. I use my 15" planer when I need to do a lot but more often than
not the drum sander is adequate for small batches.

On 2/14/16 7:22 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/14/2016 5:23 AM, dadiOH wrote:
John McCoy wrote:
"dadiOH" wrote in
:

Before you can join an edge, you must have a flat face. I can - and
do - get that with my drum sander.

OK, I'm a little confused here - how is that different from
running a board thru a planer? Seems like it would make it
smooth but not flat.

I don't have a planer, never used one but I suspect it is the same...

Run board through, concave side down to make convex side flat. Turn
over,
run through to make concave side flat (and parallel).

Leon mentioned that drum sanders are slower and I imagine so. Still,I
have
a couple of hundred feet of mahogany I have been surfacing as needed
and I
can take off 1/16 per pass with #40 paper. Fast enough for me and no
tear
out





What model drum sander do you have? I have a Performax 22-44 with a
relatively fine grit compared to 40 but wow 1/16" in a pass is pretty
aggressive by my standards. :~) And thinking I should get some 40 grit
paper. I use my 15" planer when I need to do a lot but more often than
not the drum sander is adequate for small batches.


I've got a 16/32 Performax, only 1 HP (not sure what the 22/44 has), but
with a 36 grit belt I'll cut a 1/2 turn (1/32) per pass. I would
hesitate to go deeper.
One _big_ difference between a planer and drum is the drum has
(comparatively) weaker hold down rollers and any bowing on boards longer
than 2x the sanders bed width will leave divots (snipe).

-BR

On 02/14/2016 5:23 AM, dadiOH wrote:
John McCoy wrote:
wrote in
:

Before you can join an edge, you must have a flat face. I can - and
do - get that with my drum sander.

OK, I'm a little confused here - how is that different from
running a board thru a planer? Seems like it would make it
smooth but not flat.

I don't have a planer, never used one but I suspect it is the same...

Run board through, concave side down to make convex side flat. Turn over,
run through to make concave side flat (and parallel).
....


I suppose with the little lunchbox planers, they may not have enough
hold down force to not, but a "real" planer will (and a lunchbox has to,
at least to a degree) take any bow out, smooth the top surface as it
goes through, then the bow will come back out the other side.

A jointer, otoh, takes the high spots off and leaves one with a flat
surface _first_. _THEN_ one runs that face down through the planer and
ends up with voila!! a flat and parallel-faced piece of stock.

--

On 2/14/2016 9:47 AM, dpb wrote:
On 02/14/2016 5:23 AM, dadiOH wrote:
John McCoy wrote:
wrote in
:

Before you can join an edge, you must have a flat face. I can - and
do - get that with my drum sander.

OK, I'm a little confused here - how is that different from
running a board thru a planer? Seems like it would make it
smooth but not flat.

I don't have a planer, never used one but I suspect it is the same...

Run board through, concave side down to make convex side flat. Turn
over,
run through to make concave side flat (and parallel).
...


I suppose with the little lunchbox planers, they may not have enough
hold down force to not, but a "real" planer will (and a lunchbox has to,
at least to a degree) take any bow out, smooth the top surface as it
goes through, then the bow will come back out the other side.


A jointer, otoh, takes the high spots off and leaves one with a flat
surface _first_. _THEN_ one runs that face down through the planer and
ends up with voila!! a flat and parallel-faced piece of stock.

--

And that is the correct way to do it. But a planer can take the bow out
if the wood is sent through with a flat sled and several wedges under
the "bowed up" spots to prevent the planer from bending/flatenning the
wood out.



But I have to say WHAT A PAIN IN THE BUTT! It works well but the
process is labor intensive, especially with long boards. You have to
grab the sled and the work as a unit and run tem through several times.
Heavy work by comparison to no sled.

On 2/14/2016 9:39 AM, Brewster wrote:
On 2/14/16 7:22 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/14/2016 5:23 AM, dadiOH wrote:
John McCoy wrote:
"dadiOH" wrote in
:

Before you can join an edge, you must have a flat face. I can - and
do - get that with my drum sander.

OK, I'm a little confused here - how is that different from
running a board thru a planer? Seems like it would make it
smooth but not flat.

I don't have a planer, never used one but I suspect it is the same...

Run board through, concave side down to make convex side flat. Turn
over,
run through to make concave side flat (and parallel).

Leon mentioned that drum sanders are slower and I imagine so. Still,I
have
a couple of hundred feet of mahogany I have been surfacing as needed
and I
can take off 1/16 per pass with #40 paper. Fast enough for me and no
tear
out





What model drum sander do you have? I have a Performax 22-44 with a
relatively fine grit compared to 40 but wow 1/16" in a pass is pretty
aggressive by my standards. :~) And thinking I should get some 40 grit
paper. I use my 15" planer when I need to do a lot but more often than
not the drum sander is adequate for small batches.


I've got a 16/32 Performax, only 1 HP (not sure what the 22/44 has), but
with a 36 grit belt I'll cut a 1/2 turn (1/32) per pass. I would
hesitate to go deeper.
One _big_ difference between a planer and drum is the drum has
(comparatively) weaker hold down rollers and any bowing on boards longer
than 2x the sanders bed width will leave divots (snipe).

-BR


I believe I have 120 or 150 grit on my sander. I typically go a quarter
turn between passes.

I typically use the sander over the planer when I am dealing with wonky
grain. The sander is not going to present any tear out issues like a
planer will.

Additionally the big stationary planers, mine at least, have steel in
feed rollers with ridges to grab the wood. If you do not take off
enough material the in feed will leave shallow indentations in the wood.

I would have to guess this is if I am removing less than 1/64". It is
best to plan your last pass through the planer so that you are removing
a relatively measurable amount. Obviously the softer the wood the more
likely this is going to happen. I installed a digital depth gauge to
make sneaking up on the last pass a little easier.

On 02/14/2016 10:04 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/14/2016 9:47 AM, dpb wrote:
....

I suppose with the little lunchbox planers, they may not have enough
hold down force to not, but a "real" planer will (and a lunchbox has to,
at least to a degree) take any bow out, smooth the top surface as it
goes through, then the bow will come back out the other side.


A jointer, otoh, takes the high spots off and leaves one with a flat
surface _first_. _THEN_ one runs that face down through the planer and
ends up with voila!! a flat and parallel-faced piece of stock.

And that is the correct way to do it. But a planer can take the bow out
if the wood is sent through with a flat sled and several wedges under
the "bowed up" spots to prevent the planer from bending/flatenning the
wood out.

But I have to say WHAT A PAIN IN THE BUTT! It works well but the process
is labor intensive, especially with long boards. You have to grab the
sled and the work as a unit and run tem through several times. Heavy
work by comparison to no sled.

Yabbut... VBG

I'd use a hand scrub plane first...for _a_ board.

It's why I keep both planers and rue not having brought that large
jointer altho I did finally break down and the last batch of maple I
bought I paid for initial surfacing as it is almost all wider than 8"
which the jointer here won't handle in a single pass...

I may just check if TVA did ever get rid of it or whether it's still
just sitting there -- might just have to take the truck next time go to
visit the kids/grandkids!!!

--

Leon wrote:
On 2/14/2016 5:23 AM, dadiOH wrote:
John McCoy wrote:
"dadiOH" wrote in
:

Before you can join an edge, you must have a flat face. I can -
and do - get that with my drum sander.

OK, I'm a little confused here - how is that different from
running a board thru a planer? Seems like it would make it
smooth but not flat.

I don't have a planer, never used one but I suspect it is the same...

Run board through, concave side down to make convex side flat. Turn
over, run through to make concave side flat (and parallel).

Leon mentioned that drum sanders are slower and I imagine so. Still,I
have a couple of hundred feet of mahogany I have been
surfacing as needed and I can take off 1/16 per pass with #40 paper.
Fast enough for me and no tear out





What model drum sander do you have? I have a Performax 22-44 with a
relatively fine grit compared to 40 but wow 1/16" in a pass is pretty
aggressive by my standards. :~) And thinking I should get some 40
grit paper. I use my 15" planer when I need to do a lot but more
often than not the drum sander is adequate for small batches.

Performax 16-32. The 1/16" is depending...how wide, how hard, how even (in
thickness, wind, etc.). Oak, probably not; poplar, sure.

At the moment, I am skinnying down some mahogany so I can see the grain so I
can make a support knee for wife's makeup table (the last thing for the
vanities). One piece is 10 1/2 wide, the others 6 1/2+-. I had 80 grit on
the machine, didn't want to change it so I'm just taking 1/32 per pass.
With 40 grit I am pretty sure I could do 1/16" even though one of the narrow
boards had some wind in it.

The four grits I use are 40, 80, 120 and 180. With 120, I only do 1/48 per
pass, with 180, 1/64. I have no problem skipping grits...40 to 120, eg, or
80 to 180. I get full rolls from Econ-Abrasives.
https://www.econabrasives.com/produc...e=3%22X50Yards

Brewster wrote:
On 2/14/16 7:22 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/14/2016 5:23 AM, dadiOH wrote:
John McCoy wrote:
"dadiOH" wrote in
:

Before you can join an edge, you must have a flat face. I can -
and do - get that with my drum sander.

OK, I'm a little confused here - how is that different from
running a board thru a planer? Seems like it would make it
smooth but not flat.

I don't have a planer, never used one but I suspect it is the
same... Run board through, concave side down to make convex side flat.
Turn
over,
run through to make concave side flat (and parallel).

Leon mentioned that drum sanders are slower and I imagine so. Still,I
have
a couple of hundred feet of mahogany I have been surfacing as needed
and I
can take off 1/16 per pass with #40 paper. Fast enough for me and
no tear
out





What model drum sander do you have? I have a Performax 22-44 with a
relatively fine grit compared to 40 but wow 1/16" in a pass is pretty
aggressive by my standards. :~) And thinking I should get some 40
grit paper. I use my 15" planer when I need to do a lot but more
often than not the drum sander is adequate for small batches.


I've got a 16/32 Performax, only 1 HP (not sure what the 22/44 has),
but with a 36 grit belt I'll cut a 1/2 turn (1/32) per pass. I would
hesitate to go deeper.
One _big_ difference between a planer and drum is the drum has
(comparatively) weaker hold down rollers and any bowing on boards
longer than 2x the sanders bed width will leave divots (snipe).

The boards I'm doing now (see reply to Leon) are about 7 1/2' long. Two
have mild bowing. No snipe.

As I run the board through, more is taken on the ends from the side bowed
up, more from the center from the side bowed down; final result is flat or
close to. Once cut to final length (44") and finish sanded, all bow will be
gone. It functions like that because I made extendible, variable, in/out
feed supports. On the bowed up side, the weight of the board keeps the
leading and trailing edges of the board a bit high; consequently, more is
taken off; conversely for the other side.

If the hold down rollers aren't properly adjusted, one will get snipe
regardless of the board length.

dpb wrote:
On 02/14/2016 5:23 AM, dadiOH wrote:
John McCoy wrote:
wrote in
:

Before you can join an edge, you must have a flat face. I can -
and do - get that with my drum sander.

OK, I'm a little confused here - how is that different from
running a board thru a planer? Seems like it would make it
smooth but not flat.

I don't have a planer, never used one but I suspect it is the same...

Run board through, concave side down to make convex side flat. Turn
over, run through to make concave side flat (and parallel).
...


I suppose with the little lunchbox planers, they may not have enough
hold down force to not, but a "real" planer will (and a lunchbox has
to, at least to a degree) take any bow out, smooth the top surface as
it goes through, then the bow will come back out the other side.

I'm glad I have the drum sander

On 02/14/2016 10:57 AM, dadiOH wrote:
....

I'm glad I have the drum sander

They're nice, indeed...in Lynchburg had access to a large (30")
dual-drum unit but never did invest in one of the home-shop Performax or
similar...would be nice, however, granted...

But, I get by...

--

On 2/14/2016 10:42 AM, dadiOH wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 2/14/2016 5:23 AM, dadiOH wrote:
John McCoy wrote:
"dadiOH" wrote in
:

Before you can join an edge, you must have a flat face. I can -
and do - get that with my drum sander.

OK, I'm a little confused here - how is that different from
running a board thru a planer? Seems like it would make it
smooth but not flat.

I don't have a planer, never used one but I suspect it is the same...

Run board through, concave side down to make convex side flat. Turn
over, run through to make concave side flat (and parallel).

Leon mentioned that drum sanders are slower and I imagine so. Still,I
have a couple of hundred feet of mahogany I have been
surfacing as needed and I can take off 1/16 per pass with #40 paper.
Fast enough for me and no tear out





What model drum sander do you have? I have a Performax 22-44 with a
relatively fine grit compared to 40 but wow 1/16" in a pass is pretty
aggressive by my standards. :~) And thinking I should get some 40
grit paper. I use my 15" planer when I need to do a lot but more
often than not the drum sander is adequate for small batches.

Performax 16-32. The 1/16" is depending...how wide, how hard, how even (in
thickness, wind, etc.). Oak, probably not; poplar, sure.

At the moment, I am skinnying down some mahogany so I can see the grain so I
can make a support knee for wife's makeup table (the last thing for the
vanities). One piece is 10 1/2 wide, the others 6 1/2+-. I had 80 grit on
the machine, didn't want to change it so I'm just taking 1/32 per pass.
With 40 grit I am pretty sure I could do 1/16" even though one of the narrow
boards had some wind in it.

The four grits I use are 40, 80, 120 and 180. With 120, I only do 1/48 per
pass, with 180, 1/64. I have no problem skipping grits...40 to 120, eg, or
80 to 180. I get full rolls from Econ-Abrasives.
https://www.econabrasives.com/produc...e=3%22X50Yards




Sounds about right per my findings....

I bought from
http://www.abrasiveaccessories.com/a...9&size=3X50YRD

I would not be supervised if they were both one in the same. They are
from the same metro area of Dallas TX

I do see that they have dropped their web pricing.

On 2/14/2016 10:18 AM, dpb wrote:
On 02/14/2016 10:04 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/14/2016 9:47 AM, dpb wrote:
...

I suppose with the little lunchbox planers, they may not have enough
hold down force to not, but a "real" planer will (and a lunchbox has to,
at least to a degree) take any bow out, smooth the top surface as it
goes through, then the bow will come back out the other side.


A jointer, otoh, takes the high spots off and leaves one with a flat
surface _first_. _THEN_ one runs that face down through the planer and
ends up with voila!! a flat and parallel-faced piece of stock.

And that is the correct way to do it. But a planer can take the bow out
if the wood is sent through with a flat sled and several wedges under
the "bowed up" spots to prevent the planer from bending/flatenning the
wood out.

But I have to say WHAT A PAIN IN THE BUTT! It works well but the process
is labor intensive, especially with long boards. You have to grab the
sled and the work as a unit and run tem through several times. Heavy
work by comparison to no sled.

Yabbut... VBG

I'd use a hand scrub plane first...for _a_ board.

Is that electric??? ;~) I did notice "a" board.


I do not do enough to warrant going further at this point. I hand pick
my S4S material. BUT several years ago I bought 200 BF of rough cut red
and white oak and flattened it on the sled and planer. Never again.
;~) I do not enjoy the process of turning rough lumber into "ready to
use" lumber.





It's why I keep both planers and rue not having brought that large
jointer altho I did finally break down and the last batch of maple I
bought I paid for initial surfacing as it is almost all wider than 8"
which the jointer here won't handle in a single pass...

I may just check if TVA did ever get rid of it or whether it's still
just sitting there -- might just have to take the truck next time go to
visit the kids/grandkids!!!

--

On 2/14/2016 10:57 AM, dadiOH wrote:
dpb wrote:
On 02/14/2016 5:23 AM, dadiOH wrote:
John McCoy wrote:
wrote in
:

Before you can join an edge, you must have a flat face. I can -
and do - get that with my drum sander.

OK, I'm a little confused here - how is that different from
running a board thru a planer? Seems like it would make it
smooth but not flat.

I don't have a planer, never used one but I suspect it is the same...

Run board through, concave side down to make convex side flat. Turn
over, run through to make concave side flat (and parallel).
...


I suppose with the little lunchbox planers, they may not have enough
hold down force to not, but a "real" planer will (and a lunchbox has
to, at least to a degree) take any bow out, smooth the top surface as
it goes through, then the bow will come back out the other side.

I'm glad I have the drum sander




As do I. I use it more often that I ever though I would. Great for
veneers, wood with crazy grain, and I always use it after resawing
lumber. With all of those 3D boxes I built late last year the drum
sander saw a lot of work.

Like most any tool you find more uses for it when you actually have it
in the shop. Otherwise you use some other method that might be more
tedious. My Domino is a perfect example of a tool that wildly exceeded
my expectations of how much I would use it.

On 2/14/2016 11:03 AM, dpb wrote:
On 02/14/2016 10:57 AM, dadiOH wrote:
...

I'm glad I have the drum sander

They're nice, indeed...in Lynchburg had access to a large (30")
dual-drum unit but never did invest in one of the home-shop Performax or
similar...would be nice, however, granted...

But, I get by...

--




I think "if" I replaced mine I might look at the SuperMax, IIRC.
IIRC Jet bought Performax several years ago, just after I bought my
Performax, and sell it under the Jet and Powermatic name now. IIRC the
Jet was identical except for the name to my Performax

http://www.jettools.com/us/en/p/16-3...-stand/629004K

And the prettied up Performax. IIRC the insides are pretty much like
the Jet. ALTHOUGH Jet does offer the oscillating version too.



http://www.powermatic.com/us/en/p/pm...p-115v/1792244

http://www.jettools.com/us/en/p/22-4...-stand/659006K

The SuperMax has 2 drums on some models

http://www.supermaxtools.com/products/wood/


As I commented in a previous post, when they are available your find
more uses. I forgot to mention in another post that I used it to tweak
the fit of small short/shallow drawers by sanding the top edges and
bottom edges on the drum sander.

Anyway.........

On 02/14/2016 12:35 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/14/2016 10:18 AM, dpb wrote:
....

I'd use a hand scrub plane first...for _a_ board.

Is that electric??? ;~) I did notice "a" board.

Indeed. Deliberately stated as you noticed...

I do not do enough to warrant going further at this point. I hand pick
my S4S material. BUT several years ago I bought 200 BF of rough cut red
and white oak and flattened it on the sled and planer. Never again. ;~)
I do not enjoy the process of turning rough lumber into "ready to use"
lumber.
....

I got in the habit when in VA and there were all those little one-man
sawmills everywhere that could get gorgeous stuff from at "giveaway"
prices. Oak (any kind, sawn however wanted, just pick it out) was 10
cents, walnut 15-20 and cherry up to 25 for really wide stuff...

Later, when wasn't so handy in TN I bought just 2C of whatever I wanted
as the most economical choice. I moved most of a (small bobtail)
truckload when we came back of a mix of oak, walnut, hard maple, some
butternut and a smattering of a lot of other stuff collected over 30
years.

When doing windows for the barn, however, I could _not_ find any 5/4
clear white pine at the time as it was in the big housing boom time and
everything was being bought up by Andersen, Pella, etc., or being
exported. So, I bought the soft maple for the purpose through the mill
shop in Wichita that did the replacement siding and bed mould I needed
for me. I did let them surface one side of it plus some 8" SYP I bought
from which to pick through to find trim pieces so I do have one flat
starting side on it.

The rest of everything here at the moment is all roughsawn, though.

--

On 2/13/2016 8:13 AM, HerHusband wrote:
I need to buy a jointer, and haven't had much luck finding a used one.

So, I've been looking at the budget 6" jointers by Ridgid and Grizzly, in
the sub $600 range. Grizzly's new G0813/814 jointers aren't in stock yet,
and the shipping costs would make it more expensive. I could have the
Ridgid shipped to my local store for free, making it a bit cheaper.

Price aside, which would be the better jointer? Are there other brands in
that price range I should consider?

I don't have the space or the money for a larger 8" jointer.

I will chime in here since I have the Ridgid jointer.

In general, I am very happy with mine. It runs and cuts smoothly. The
bed is long enough that you can really create a straight edge on a
board. The bed height and the fence position adjustment are simple and
straight forward. It came out of the box with the infeed and outfeed
tables parallel. The tables are flat. (There is a minor 0.002 inch dip
on one far corner of the infeed table but that is definitely not a
problem since there is plenty of flat table before you get to the cutter
head.)

My only complaint is that the adjustment for the tilt of the fence seems
a little strange to me. (This is my first and only jointer so I do not
have any other data points for comparison.) The tilt adjustment
articulates at a couple of points so that the fence can move up and down
while adjusting the tilt. Since I wanted a small gap between the fence
and the table tops, I used a piece of card stock to position the fence
vertically while adjusting the tilt. I set it to 90 degrees when I first
got the jointer and I have not changed it since.

I bought the jointer is 2009. At that time it was listed at $428. I
decided to buy it when Home Depot was having a 1/2 price sale. (I think
that the reason for the sale was that this is when Home Deopt decided to
no longer stock the jointers in the store.) I thought that $214 was a
fair price. When I got to the store, the price that they charged me was
$107 plus tax. I asked and they checked and that was the price that they
had in their computer. The sales guy asked me if I wanted the second
unit that they had in stock. I did not have room for a second unit and
it was a good price but I declined.

Dan

On 02/14/2016 12:54 PM, Leon wrote:
....


As I commented in a previous post, when they are available your find
more uses. I forgot to mention in another post that I used it to tweak
the fit of small short/shallow drawers by sanding the top edges and
bottom edges on the drum sander.

Anyway.........

I know I've told the story before that when first got to Lynchburg where
there were TREES!!!! for heaven's sake!! and got the real ww'ing bug
that had been mildly planted in HS shop, first ran into a kid just out
of HS at the time making decoupage plaques on a one-at-a-time basis with
a little Craftsman shaper and hand sander. Mr Davis of Davis Paint, a
regional manufacturer there was selling them in their retail store
downtown for him and he was earning enough (with a lot of time invested)
to keep himself in school at least part time with a new wife, to boot.

Mr Davis offered to bankroll him a shop and it was answering his ad in
the Sunday paper to sell the shaper and the Powermatic planer that I met
him. Mr Davis upgraded him and set him up a shop in the 2nd basement
under the store (there were two more below it, 12-ft ceilings, dry,
well-lit, _great_ shop space) with a two-spindled shaper, the 24" PM
planer and a stroke sander.

Within five years, Eddie was running 40,000 bd-ft thru the shop in a
single year, primarily at that time doing the wooden platforms for
Craddock-Terry shoe company there in Lynchburg. At that time the plaque
business had fallen off but the remnant of it was access to the drum
sander when I wanted...

The sander was an old Smith unit Mr Davis got from Lane on a swap; iirc
it was 20hp. Initially there wasn't enough dust collection and things
got real messy the first time we turned it on!

--