On 10/31/2015 7:49 PM, J. Clarke wrote:


Needing a special tool makes it non-knock down in many cases. Do you
give your kids a drill when they are off to college?

Well if you need it to be knock down in those cases obviously this is
not the fastener to use. It seems inconcievable to you that there might
be a use for knock-down furniture other than sending a kid off to
college.

I used one example but that does not mean I don't know of others.
Temporary store displays, trade show booth and two more of many examples
that I can conceive.



As for the bannister, if I was building a high end house I'd
use it. Details like that make a high end house just that.

You'd use a screwed-together butt joint on a bannister in a "high end
house"?!?!?!?!?!



I'm suggesting a hidden fastener. If it has the strength needed it
would look good. Never used one so I can't say for sure.

Why would a bannister need to be removable?


Were did I say removable? Oh, I didn't, but you like to argue for the
sake of arguing so you add in your own ideas. I only said hidden
fastener. OK, you can finish with a snarky comment.

Ed Pawlowski wrote in news:1s2dnbAgf8L4nKvLnZ2dnUU7-
:

On 10/31/2015 7:49 PM, J. Clarke wrote:

Why would a bannister need to be removable?


Were did I say removable?

I think J. Clarke is stuck on the same point I am here. The
video referenced way up thread shows a bannister made with
these fancy fastners. And the question is why? It's been
suggested (maybe not by you) that the advantage of these things
is that they're removable. So that raises the question, why
you would want to remove a bannister?

And if you don't want to remove the bannister, we're back to
why use those fastners in the first place?

John

On 11/1/2015 10:10 AM, John McCoy wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote in news:1s2dnbAgf8L4nKvLnZ2dnUU7-
:

On 10/31/2015 7:49 PM, J. Clarke wrote:

Why would a bannister need to be removable?


Were did I say removable?

I think J. Clarke is stuck on the same point I am here. The
video referenced way up thread shows a bannister made with
these fancy fastners. And the question is why? It's been
suggested (maybe not by you) that the advantage of these things
is that they're removable. So that raises the question, why
you would want to remove a bannister?

And if you don't want to remove the bannister, we're back to
why use those fastners in the first place?

John


The main advantage I see is that the fasteners are hidden. Needing to
remove a bannister is rare, but could be handy at times moving furniture
but I don't see that as a big selling point.

In article ,
says...

On 11/1/2015 10:10 AM, John McCoy wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote in news:1s2dnbAgf8L4nKvLnZ2dnUU7-
:

On 10/31/2015 7:49 PM, J. Clarke wrote:

Why would a bannister need to be removable?


Were did I say removable?

I think J. Clarke is stuck on the same point I am here. The
video referenced way up thread shows a bannister made with
these fancy fastners. And the question is why? It's been
suggested (maybe not by you) that the advantage of these things
is that they're removable. So that raises the question, why
you would want to remove a bannister?

And if you don't want to remove the bannister, we're back to
why use those fastners in the first place?

John


The main advantage I see is that the fasteners are hidden. Needing to
remove a bannister is rare, but could be handy at times moving furniture
but I don't see that as a big selling point.

Dowels are hidden too, and a lot cheaper, so what do these things bring
to the table that dowels don't, if you're not planning on removing the
thing?

On 11/1/2015 6:12 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article ,
says...

[snip]


The main advantage I see is that the fasteners are hidden. Needing to
remove a bannister is rare, but could be handy at times moving furniture
but I don't see that as a big selling point.

Dowels are hidden too, and a lot cheaper, so what do these things bring
to the table that dowels don't, if you're not planning on removing the
thing?


I don't wish to prolong the agony but...

Have you ever attempted to remove/separate a PROPERLY glued and doweled
joint? If you have, then you might understand where this device -
admittedly of limited, specialized application might be worth a shot.

A product like this, outside the box, is best suited for applications
which are also "outside the box."

In article om,
says...

On 11/1/2015 6:12 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article ,
says...

[snip]


The main advantage I see is that the fasteners are hidden. Needing to
remove a bannister is rare, but could be handy at times moving furniture
but I don't see that as a big selling point.

Dowels are hidden too, and a lot cheaper, so what do these things bring
to the table that dowels don't, if you're not planning on removing the
thing?


I don't wish to prolong the agony but...

Have you ever attempted to remove/separate a PROPERLY glued and doweled
joint? If you have, then you might understand where this device -
admittedly of limited, specialized application might be worth a shot.

A product like this, outside the box, is best suited for applications
which are also "outside the box."

You're missing the point. Why would one want to use this fastener in
preference to dowels or (perish the thought) joinery in a bannister in
"a high-end house"?

On 11/1/2015 9:10 AM, John McCoy wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote in news:1s2dnbAgf8L4nKvLnZ2dnUU7-
:

On 10/31/2015 7:49 PM, J. Clarke wrote:

Why would a bannister need to be removable?


Were did I say removable?

I think J. Clarke is stuck on the same point I am here. The
video referenced way up thread shows a bannister made with
these fancy fastners. And the question is why? It's been
suggested (maybe not by you) that the advantage of these things
is that they're removable. So that raises the question, why
you would want to remove a bannister?

And if you don't want to remove the bannister, we're back to
why use those fastners in the first place?

John


Why would you want to remove a bannister? IIRC TOH used the tool and
fastener to attach a banister. So, they were not building a new house
IIRC and they removed the previous banister to replace with the new one.

There could be multiple reasons to remove a banister but IMHO who ever
does it next time will not have a clue if it has this type fastener or
the tool to loosen it.

On 11/1/2015 7:46 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article om,
says...

On 11/1/2015 6:12 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article ,
says...

[snip]


The main advantage I see is that the fasteners are hidden. Needing to
remove a bannister is rare, but could be handy at times moving furniture
but I don't see that as a big selling point.

Dowels are hidden too, and a lot cheaper, so what do these things bring
to the table that dowels don't, if you're not planning on removing the
thing?


I don't wish to prolong the agony but...

Have you ever attempted to remove/separate a PROPERLY glued and doweled
joint? If you have, then you might understand where this device -
admittedly of limited, specialized application might be worth a shot.

A product like this, outside the box, is best suited for applications
which are also "outside the box."

You're missing the point. Why would one want to use this fastener in
preference to dowels or (perish the thought) joinery in a bannister in
"a high-end house"?


Simply for ease to remove for the refreshing the finish of the banister
out side of the house. Certainly in a high end home the smell of the
stripping products, paint, varnish, stain, what ever would be
objectionable.

On Monday, November 2, 2015 at 9:02:38 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 11/1/2015 7:46 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article om,
says...

On 11/1/2015 6:12 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article ,
says...

[snip]


The main advantage I see is that the fasteners are hidden. Needing to
remove a bannister is rare, but could be handy at times moving furniture
but I don't see that as a big selling point.

Dowels are hidden too, and a lot cheaper, so what do these things bring
to the table that dowels don't, if you're not planning on removing the
thing?


I don't wish to prolong the agony but...

Have you ever attempted to remove/separate a PROPERLY glued and doweled
joint? If you have, then you might understand where this device -
admittedly of limited, specialized application might be worth a shot.

A product like this, outside the box, is best suited for applications
which are also "outside the box."

You're missing the point. Why would one want to use this fastener in
preference to dowels or (perish the thought) joinery in a bannister in
"a high-end house"?


Simply for ease to remove for the refreshing the finish of the banister
out side of the house. Certainly in a high end home the smell of the
stripping products, paint, varnish, stain, what ever would be
objectionable.

....and those odors aren't objectionable in other homes? Do high end home
owners have high end noses? ;-)

On 11/2/2015 9:08 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, November 2, 2015 at 9:02:38 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 11/1/2015 7:46 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article om,
says...

On 11/1/2015 6:12 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article ,
says...

[snip]


The main advantage I see is that the fasteners are hidden. Needing to
remove a bannister is rare, but could be handy at times moving furniture
but I don't see that as a big selling point.

Dowels are hidden too, and a lot cheaper, so what do these things bring
to the table that dowels don't, if you're not planning on removing the
thing?


I don't wish to prolong the agony but...

Have you ever attempted to remove/separate a PROPERLY glued and doweled
joint? If you have, then you might understand where this device -
admittedly of limited, specialized application might be worth a shot.

A product like this, outside the box, is best suited for applications
which are also "outside the box."

You're missing the point. Why would one want to use this fastener in
preference to dowels or (perish the thought) joinery in a bannister in
"a high-end house"?


Simply for ease to remove for the refreshing the finish of the banister
out side of the house. Certainly in a high end home the smell of the
stripping products, paint, varnish, stain, what ever would be
objectionable.

...and those odors aren't objectionable in other homes? Do high end home
owners have high end noses? ;-)

Well as a matter of fact different strokes for different folks. I have
had customers where money is no object and they will pay anything to
avoid any disruption in tranquility. If you are going to do $200K+ reno
in a million dollar+ home they just might not want to smell the paint
dry. This explains the low emission paints available for a premium
these days.

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

Simply for ease to remove for the refreshing the finish of the
banister out side of the house. Certainly in a high end home the
smell of the stripping products, paint, varnish, stain, what ever
would be objectionable.

OK, there's a valid point. Doesn't seem like something
you'd do terribly often, but I guess when you're at the
"money's no object" level, you might want a bannister with
hidden, dissassemblable fastners.

John

In article ,
says...

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

Simply for ease to remove for the refreshing the finish of the
banister out side of the house. Certainly in a high end home the
smell of the stripping products, paint, varnish, stain, what ever
would be objectionable.

OK, there's a valid point. Doesn't seem like something
you'd do terribly often, but I guess when you're at the
"money's no object" level, you might want a bannister with
hidden, dissassemblable fastners.

John

Are the ceilings, walls, and floors also assembled with hidden,
disassemblable fasteners so they can be taken outside when they need
refinishing?

On 11/2/2015 10:08 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Simply for ease to remove for the refreshing the finish of the banister
out side of the house. Certainly in a high end home the smell of the
stripping products, paint, varnish, stain, what ever would be
objectionable.

...and those odors aren't objectionable in other homes? Do high end home
owners have high end noses? ;-)


High end owners are often willing to pay a lot to avoid such things. My
step-father did a lot of work for high end customers. Amazing what they
want and how much they will pay for it.

On 11/2/2015 6:29 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article ,
says...

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

Simply for ease to remove for the refreshing the finish of the
banister out side of the house. Certainly in a high end home the
smell of the stripping products, paint, varnish, stain, what ever
would be objectionable.

OK, there's a valid point. Doesn't seem like something
you'd do terribly often, but I guess when you're at the
"money's no object" level, you might want a bannister with
hidden, dissassemblable fastners.

John

Are the ceilings, walls, and floors also assembled with hidden,
disassemblable fasteners so they can be taken outside when they need
refinishing?


Jeez, John

Is it that hard for you to concede that there are certain tools, certain
materials, certain procedures, etc. that exist solely to fill a unique
or oddball use or nitch?

Following this thread I don't see where anyone has suggested universal
use of the fastening system nor even wide use of it. Why not give it a
rest? If you can't run for King of the World and ban the damn fastener
and be done with it. Either that or grab a cup of STFU.

In article om,
says...

On 11/2/2015 6:29 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article ,
says...

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

Simply for ease to remove for the refreshing the finish of the
banister out side of the house. Certainly in a high end home the
smell of the stripping products, paint, varnish, stain, what ever
would be objectionable.

OK, there's a valid point. Doesn't seem like something
you'd do terribly often, but I guess when you're at the
"money's no object" level, you might want a bannister with
hidden, dissassemblable fastners.

John

Are the ceilings, walls, and floors also assembled with hidden,
disassemblable fasteners so they can be taken outside when they need
refinishing?


Jeez, John

Is it that hard for you to concede that there are certain tools, certain
materials, certain procedures, etc. that exist solely to fill a unique
or oddball use or nitch?

I'm not the one who suggested that such a thing would be used for
"bannisters in high end houses" so that they could be removed for the
purpose of being refinished without annoying the occupants of said house
with the odors associated with refinishing.

If they need to be removed from the house in order to avoid such
annoyance, then why doesn't everything else that is likely to need to be
refinished also need to be removed from the house for refinishing?

Following this thread I don't see where anyone has suggested universal
use of the fastening system nor even wide use of it. Why not give it a
rest? If you can't run for King of the World and ban the damn fastener
and be done with it. Either that or grab a cup of STFU.

You've totally missed the point.

J. Clarke wrote:
In article ,
says...

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

Simply for ease to remove for the refreshing the finish of the
banister out side of the house. Certainly in a high end home the
smell of the stripping products, paint, varnish, stain, what ever
would be objectionable.

OK, there's a valid point. Doesn't seem like something
you'd do terribly often, but I guess when you're at the
"money's no object" level, you might want a bannister with
hidden, dissassemblable fastners.

John

Are the ceilings, walls, and floors also assembled with hidden,
disassemblable fasteners so they can be taken outside when they need
refinishing?


In that case they would go on vacation in Morocco for 3 months while that
is going on.

J. Clarke wrote:
In article om,
says...

On 11/2/2015 6:29 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article ,
says...

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

Simply for ease to remove for the refreshing the finish of the
banister out side of the house. Certainly in a high end home the
smell of the stripping products, paint, varnish, stain, what ever
would be objectionable.

OK, there's a valid point. Doesn't seem like something
you'd do terribly often, but I guess when you're at the
"money's no object" level, you might want a bannister with
hidden, dissassemblable fastners.

John

Are the ceilings, walls, and floors also assembled with hidden,
disassemblable fasteners so they can be taken outside when they need
refinishing?


Jeez, John

Is it that hard for you to concede that there are certain tools, certain
materials, certain procedures, etc. that exist solely to fill a unique
or oddball use or nitch?

I'm not the one who suggested that such a thing would be used for
"bannisters in high end houses" so that they could be removed for the
purpose of being refinished without annoying the occupants of said house
with the odors associated with refinishing.

If they need to be removed from the house in order to avoid such
annoyance, then why doesn't everything else that is likely to need to be
refinished also need to be removed from the house for refinishing?

Perhaps if you did this type work you would understand. FWIW you typically
don't remove paint from walls. It's not uncommon at all to remove the
finish from a banister which can raise a lot of dust or add another
chemical smell to the mix. Anyway you asked and you got your answer.


Following this thread I don't see where anyone has suggested universal
use of the fastening system nor even wide use of it. Why not give it a
rest? If you can't run for King of the World and ban the damn fastener
and be done with it. Either that or grab a cup of STFU.

You've totally missed the point.

On 11/2/2015 6:38 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
High end owners are often willing to pay a lot to avoid such things. My
step-father did a lot of work for high end customers. Amazing what they
want and how much they will pay for it.

The name of the game.
Not worth the hassle working for low end customers.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 11/3/15 7:32 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 11/2/2015 6:38 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
High end owners are often willing to pay a lot to avoid such
things. My step-father did a lot of work for high end customers.
Amazing what they want and how much they will pay for it.

The name of the game. Not worth the hassle working for low end
customers.


Yep! As was brought up in another part of the interweps where you and
I both converse, I'm finding that I don't ever want to be the lowest
bidder, either.

Too many clients who hire the lowest bidder for price alone are never
satisfied and want to leave the game feeling like they stuck it to you.
Plus, when you bid a job too low it's way too tempting cut corners or
quality to try to get out with more profit.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 11/3/2015 10:08 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 11/3/15 7:32 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 11/2/2015 6:38 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
High end owners are often willing to pay a lot to avoid such
things. My step-father did a lot of work for high end customers.
Amazing what they want and how much they will pay for it.

The name of the game. Not worth the hassle working for low end
customers.


Yep! As was brought up in another part of the interweps where you and
I both converse, I'm finding that I don't ever want to be the lowest
bidder, either.

Too many clients who hire the lowest bidder for price alone are never
satisfied and want to leave the game feeling like they stuck it to you.
Plus, when you bid a job too low it's way too tempting cut corners or
quality to try to get out with more profit.


The problem with the low bid is that the client still expects the high
bid results.

J. Clarke wrote:

OK, there's a valid point. Doesn't seem like something
you'd do terribly often, but I guess when you're at the
"money's no object" level, you might want a bannister with
hidden, dissassemblable fastners.

Are the ceilings, walls, and floors also assembled with hidden,
disassemblable fasteners so they can be taken outside when they need
refinishing?


doesn't sound like a great idea.

wrote in news:n45dg9$lfr$7
@odin.sdf-eu.org:

J. Clarke wrote:

OK, there's a valid point. Doesn't seem like something
you'd do terribly often, but I guess when you're at the
"money's no object" level, you might want a bannister with
hidden, dissassemblable fastners.

Are the ceilings, walls, and floors also assembled with hidden,
disassemblable fasteners so they can be taken outside when they need
refinishing?


doesn't sound like a great idea.


If you're really up on things, you'll lay the floor over steel beams
spaced every 4' or so. A few of those rare earth magnets (do not carry
one in each pocket!) and not only can the walls be removed for
refinishing but they can be rearranged as desired.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.