I'm still in the beginning stages of wood turning but have dabbled with
small items which I've been happy with. I purchased 5 carbide cutters
which came with two metal holders, though one cutter is a diamond shape
and has it's own designated holder. Therefore, I have one holder for the
other 4 cutters. Anyway, I made holders out of square SS stock and now
need wooden handles to fit.

I trimmed my silver maple tree over the weekend. In doing so, I realized
the size of some of the branches would be great for my handles. I shaped
one and pleasantly surprised how well it "turned" out (pun intended).
The question I have is about the freshness of the wood. It was less than
24 hours after I trimmed the tree, I cut a piece for the handle.
Therefore, that puppy was fresh and easy to turn. I've heard about
letting wood sit to dry out, then finish. This is the part I haven't any
knowledge on. What length of time is required to dry out? Is the main
reason to dry for finishes or easier to turn? Though I can't imagine it
being for easier turning. That bark and shavings came off like butter.
Overall, how do I handle turning fresh stock?

Thanks

On 9/8/2015 3:41 PM, Meanie wrote:
I'm still in the beginning stages of wood turning but have dabbled with
small items which I've been happy with. I purchased 5 carbide cutters
which came with two metal holders, though one cutter is a diamond shape
and has it's own designated holder. Therefore, I have one holder for the
other 4 cutters. Anyway, I made holders out of square SS stock and now
need wooden handles to fit.

I trimmed my silver maple tree over the weekend. In doing so, I realized
the size of some of the branches would be great for my handles. I shaped
one and pleasantly surprised how well it "turned" out (pun intended).
The question I have is about the freshness of the wood. It was less than
24 hours after I trimmed the tree, I cut a piece for the handle.
Therefore, that puppy was fresh and easy to turn. I've heard about
letting wood sit to dry out, then finish. This is the part I haven't any
knowledge on. What length of time is required to dry out? Is the main
reason to dry for finishes or easier to turn? Though I can't imagine it
being for easier turning. That bark and shavings came off like butter.
Overall, how do I handle turning fresh stock?

Thanks


Narrow pieces will not take as long to dry out but for regular lumber
the general time frame for natural air drying is about 1 year per inch
of thickness.

You probably will not have to wait that long, given the smaller size and
length, but I would let the piece, cut to approximate length, dry for a
few to several months "before" turning to final size. They will surely
change shape as they dry.

Typically green wood is extremely easy to turn but it will change shape
and maybe crack or twist. Many bowl turners will turn a green piece to
rough shape and then let the piece dry for a year or so before turning
to final shape. This speeds up the drying process.

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:



Narrow pieces will not take as long to dry out but for regular lumber
the general time frame for natural air drying is about 1 year per inch
of thickness.

You probably will not have to wait that long, given the smaller size
and length, but I would let the piece, cut to approximate length, dry
for a few to several months "before" turning to final size. They will
surely change shape as they dry.

Typically green wood is extremely easy to turn but it will change
shape and maybe crack or twist. Many bowl turners will turn a green
piece to rough shape and then let the piece dry for a year or so
before turning to final shape. This speeds up the drying process.


Would coating the freshly turned pieces with Anchor Seal or similar help
prevent checks as the wood dries?

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

As a relatively new turner myself, I offer two pieces of advice:

1. Visit the turners' forum at Sawmill Creek. Lots of experienced turners willing to answer fundamental questions.

2. See if there is an AAW chapter in your community. (That's American Association of Woodturners.) Some chapters have mentoring programs aimed at helping beginners navigate what can be a steep learning curve.

Good luck,

Larry

On Tuesday, September 8, 2015 at 3:41:57 PM UTC-5, SBH wrote:
I'm still in the beginning stages of wood turning but have dabbled with
small items which I've been happy with. I purchased 5 carbide cutters
which came with two metal holders, though one cutter is a diamond shape
and has it's own designated holder. Therefore, I have one holder for the
other 4 cutters. Anyway, I made holders out of square SS stock and now
need wooden handles to fit.

I trimmed my silver maple tree over the weekend. In doing so, I realized
the size of some of the branches would be great for my handles. I shaped
one and pleasantly surprised how well it "turned" out (pun intended).
The question I have is about the freshness of the wood. It was less than
24 hours after I trimmed the tree, I cut a piece for the handle.
Therefore, that puppy was fresh and easy to turn. I've heard about
letting wood sit to dry out, then finish. This is the part I haven't any
knowledge on. What length of time is required to dry out? Is the main
reason to dry for finishes or easier to turn? Though I can't imagine it
being for easier turning. That bark and shavings came off like butter.
Overall, how do I handle turning fresh stock?

Thanks

On 9/8/2015 6:02 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:



Narrow pieces will not take as long to dry out but for regular lumber
the general time frame for natural air drying is about 1 year per inch
of thickness.

You probably will not have to wait that long, given the smaller size
and length, but I would let the piece, cut to approximate length, dry
for a few to several months "before" turning to final size. They will
surely change shape as they dry.

Typically green wood is extremely easy to turn but it will change
shape and maybe crack or twist. Many bowl turners will turn a green
piece to rough shape and then let the piece dry for a year or so
before turning to final shape. This speeds up the drying process.


Would coating the freshly turned pieces with Anchor Seal or similar help
prevent checks as the wood dries?

Puckdropper


You took my thought right out of my head. I await the answer.

On 9/8/2015 5:25 PM, Leon wrote:
On 9/8/2015 3:41 PM, Meanie wrote:
I'm still in the beginning stages of wood turning but have dabbled with
small items which I've been happy with. I purchased 5 carbide cutters
which came with two metal holders, though one cutter is a diamond shape
and has it's own designated holder. Therefore, I have one holder for the
other 4 cutters. Anyway, I made holders out of square SS stock and now
need wooden handles to fit.

I trimmed my silver maple tree over the weekend. In doing so, I realized
the size of some of the branches would be great for my handles. I shaped
one and pleasantly surprised how well it "turned" out (pun intended).
The question I have is about the freshness of the wood. It was less than
24 hours after I trimmed the tree, I cut a piece for the handle.
Therefore, that puppy was fresh and easy to turn. I've heard about
letting wood sit to dry out, then finish. This is the part I haven't any
knowledge on. What length of time is required to dry out? Is the main
reason to dry for finishes or easier to turn? Though I can't imagine it
being for easier turning. That bark and shavings came off like butter.
Overall, how do I handle turning fresh stock?

Thanks


Narrow pieces will not take as long to dry out but for regular lumber
the general time frame for natural air drying is about 1 year per inch
of thickness.

You probably will not have to wait that long, given the smaller size and
length, but I would let the piece, cut to approximate length, dry for a
few to several months "before" turning to final size. They will surely
change shape as they dry.

Typically green wood is extremely easy to turn but it will change shape
and maybe crack or twist. Many bowl turners will turn a green piece to
rough shape and then let the piece dry for a year or so before turning
to final shape. This speeds up the drying process.


Holy crap! A year? I think I will measure this piece now then measure
later to see the difference. The branch was about 2" dia and turned to
1.5" at it's widest point. That was the final measurement...lol. Glad
I'm experimenting. I'll do the others larger.

Thanks

On 9/8/2015 6:23 PM, Gramps' shop wrote:
As a relatively new turner myself, I offer two pieces of advice:

1. Visit the turners' forum at Sawmill Creek. Lots of experienced turners willing to answer fundamental questions.

2. See if there is an AAW chapter in your community. (That's American Association of Woodturners.) Some chapters have mentoring programs aimed at helping beginners navigate what can be a steep learning curve.

Good luck,

Larry


Thank you and yes, there is a group I met a the local woodworking show
last year. Unfortunately, I went to two meets and nobody showed. They
meet once a month and after the second no show, I gave up. Perhaps I'll
try another time when winter comes.

Meanie wrote:
I'm still in the beginning stages of wood turning but have dabbled with
small items which I've been happy with. I purchased 5 carbide cutters
which came with two metal holders, though one cutter is a diamond shape
and has it's own designated holder. Therefore, I have one holder for the
other 4 cutters. Anyway, I made holders out of square SS stock and now
need wooden handles to fit.

I trimmed my silver maple tree over the weekend. In doing so, I realized
the size of some of the branches would be great for my handles. I shaped
one and pleasantly surprised how well it "turned" out (pun intended).
The question I have is about the freshness of the wood. It was less than
24 hours after I trimmed the tree, I cut a piece for the handle.
Therefore, that puppy was fresh and easy to turn. I've heard about
letting wood sit to dry out, then finish. This is the part I haven't any
knowledge on. What length of time is required to dry out? Is the main
reason to dry for finishes or easier to turn? Though I can't imagine it
being for easier turning. That bark and shavings came off like butter.
Overall, how do I handle turning fresh stock?

Thanks

It helps to seal the end grain with wax or Anchor-seal (which is a
wax-in-water emulsion). This slows the loss of water through the end
grain and promotes more even drying throughout the piece, therefore
less checking.

I turn my bowls thicker than the finished bowl will be. Thickness of
10 percent of the total diameter. Then I put them in a paper bag to
dry. The bag makes a micro-climate inside, slowing the drying. After
1 month I start weighing the pieces with a digital gram scale every 2
weeks and write the weight on the piece with a pencil. When the
weight loss stops, it is dry for all practical purposes. Different
woods dry at different speeds, averaging 3-5 months for a bowl with a
wall thickness of 3/4 inch. It will no longer be round, so the finish
turning corrects this.

Also, avoid using wood with the heart (pith) in it, as it will usually
split IME.

--
GW Ross

Ever wonder what the speed of
lightning would be if it didn't zigzag?

On Tuesday, September 8, 2015 at 3:41:57 PM UTC-5, SBH wrote:
I'm still in the beginning stages of wood turning but have dabbled with
small items which I've been happy with. I purchased 5 carbide cutters
which came with two metal holders, though one cutter is a diamond shape
and has it's own designated holder. Therefore, I have one holder for the
other 4 cutters. Anyway, I made holders out of square SS stock and now
need wooden handles to fit.

I trimmed my silver maple tree over the weekend. In doing so, I realized
the size of some of the branches would be great for my handles. I shaped
one and pleasantly surprised how well it "turned" out (pun intended).
The question I have is about the freshness of the wood. It was less than
24 hours after I trimmed the tree, I cut a piece for the handle.
Therefore, that puppy was fresh and easy to turn. I've heard about
letting wood sit to dry out, then finish. This is the part I haven't any
knowledge on. What length of time is required to dry out? Is the main
reason to dry for finishes or easier to turn? Though I can't imagine it
being for easier turning. That bark and shavings came off like butter.
Overall, how do I handle turning fresh stock?

Thanks

Yes, turning green is really satisfying but I would encourage you to seal the end grain with paint or poly. Otherwise, it may well check or crack because end grains dry far faster that the rest of the piece. Also, I wouldn't use silver maple for handles. It's too soft in my view.

Your green wood has a relative moisture content of 100 percent. Stable and thus workable wood is around 12 percent. With dry houses (these days), indoor furniture should be around 8 percent.

On 9/8/2015 5:25 PM, Leon wrote:
On 9/8/2015 3:41 PM, Meanie wrote:
I'm still in the beginning stages of wood turning but have dabbled with
small items which I've been happy with. I purchased 5 carbide cutters
which came with two metal holders, though one cutter is a diamond shape
and has it's own designated holder. Therefore, I have one holder for the
other 4 cutters. Anyway, I made holders out of square SS stock and now
need wooden handles to fit.

I trimmed my silver maple tree over the weekend. In doing so, I realized
the size of some of the branches would be great for my handles. I shaped
one and pleasantly surprised how well it "turned" out (pun intended).
The question I have is about the freshness of the wood. It was less than
24 hours after I trimmed the tree, I cut a piece for the handle.
Therefore, that puppy was fresh and easy to turn. I've heard about
letting wood sit to dry out, then finish. This is the part I haven't any
knowledge on. What length of time is required to dry out? Is the main
reason to dry for finishes or easier to turn? Though I can't imagine it
being for easier turning. That bark and shavings came off like butter.
Overall, how do I handle turning fresh stock?

Thanks


Narrow pieces will not take as long to dry out but for regular lumber
the general time frame for natural air drying is about 1 year per inch
of thickness.

You probably will not have to wait that long, given the smaller size and
length, but I would let the piece, cut to approximate length, dry for a
few to several months "before" turning to final size. They will surely
change shape as they dry.

Typically green wood is extremely easy to turn but it will change shape
and maybe crack or twist. Many bowl turners will turn a green piece to
rough shape and then let the piece dry for a year or so before turning
to final shape. This speeds up the drying process.


One of the easiest ways to try wood that's been turned is to stick it in
a box of saw dust, or shavings. It draws it out quicker than air drying
and it doesn't stress it like other methods.



--
Jeff

On 9/8/2015 11:24 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 9/8/2015 5:25 PM, Leon wrote:
On 9/8/2015 3:41 PM, Meanie wrote:
I'm still in the beginning stages of wood turning but have dabbled with
small items which I've been happy with. I purchased 5 carbide cutters
which came with two metal holders, though one cutter is a diamond shape
and has it's own designated holder. Therefore, I have one holder for the
other 4 cutters. Anyway, I made holders out of square SS stock and now
need wooden handles to fit.

I trimmed my silver maple tree over the weekend. In doing so, I realized
the size of some of the branches would be great for my handles. I shaped
one and pleasantly surprised how well it "turned" out (pun intended).
The question I have is about the freshness of the wood. It was less than
24 hours after I trimmed the tree, I cut a piece for the handle.
Therefore, that puppy was fresh and easy to turn. I've heard about
letting wood sit to dry out, then finish. This is the part I haven't any
knowledge on. What length of time is required to dry out? Is the main
reason to dry for finishes or easier to turn? Though I can't imagine it
being for easier turning. That bark and shavings came off like butter.
Overall, how do I handle turning fresh stock?

Thanks


Narrow pieces will not take as long to dry out but for regular lumber
the general time frame for natural air drying is about 1 year per inch
of thickness.

You probably will not have to wait that long, given the smaller size and
length, but I would let the piece, cut to approximate length, dry for a
few to several months "before" turning to final size. They will surely
change shape as they dry.

Typically green wood is extremely easy to turn but it will change shape
and maybe crack or twist. Many bowl turners will turn a green piece to
rough shape and then let the piece dry for a year or so before turning
to final shape. This speeds up the drying process.


One of the easiest ways to try wood that's been turned is to stick it in
a box of saw dust, or shavings. It draws it out quicker than air drying
and it doesn't stress it like other methods.




The same shavings which came off the turned piece?

woodchucker wrote:
On 9/8/2015 5:25 PM, Leon wrote:
On 9/8/2015 3:41 PM, Meanie wrote:
I'm still in the beginning stages of wood turning but have dabbled
with small items which I've been happy with. I purchased 5 carbide
cutters which came with two metal holders, though one cutter is a
diamond shape and has it's own designated holder. Therefore, I have
one holder for the other 4 cutters. Anyway, I made holders out of
square SS stock and now need wooden handles to fit.

I trimmed my silver maple tree over the weekend. In doing so, I
realized the size of some of the branches would be great for my
handles. I shaped one and pleasantly surprised how well it "turned"
out (pun intended). The question I have is about the freshness of
the wood. It was less than 24 hours after I trimmed the tree, I cut
a piece for the handle. Therefore, that puppy was fresh and easy to
turn. I've heard about letting wood sit to dry out, then finish.
This is the part I haven't any knowledge on. What length of time is
required to dry out? Is the main reason to dry for finishes or
easier to turn? Though I can't imagine it being for easier turning.
That bark and shavings came off like butter. Overall, how do I
handle turning fresh stock? Thanks


Narrow pieces will not take as long to dry out but for regular lumber
the general time frame for natural air drying is about 1 year per
inch of thickness.

You probably will not have to wait that long, given the smaller size
and length, but I would let the piece, cut to approximate length,
dry for a few to several months "before" turning to final size. They will
surely change shape as they dry.

Typically green wood is extremely easy to turn but it will change
shape and maybe crack or twist. Many bowl turners will turn a green
piece to rough shape and then let the piece dry for a year or so
before turning to final shape. This speeds up the drying process.


One of the easiest ways to try wood that's been turned is to stick it
in a box of saw dust, or shavings. It draws it out quicker than air
drying and it doesn't stress it like other methods.

Would alcohol work? It has great affinity for water; if one were to immerse
the piece in alcohol for a while and then remove it, would the alcohol have
mixed with the wood's water leaving it drier?

"dadiOH" wrote:
woodchucker wrote:
On 9/8/2015 5:25 PM, Leon wrote:
On 9/8/2015 3:41 PM, Meanie wrote:
I'm still in the beginning stages of wood turning but have dabbled
with small items which I've been happy with. I purchased 5 carbide
cutters which came with two metal holders, though one cutter is a
diamond shape and has it's own designated holder. Therefore, I have
one holder for the other 4 cutters. Anyway, I made holders out of
square SS stock and now need wooden handles to fit.

I trimmed my silver maple tree over the weekend. In doing so, I
realized the size of some of the branches would be great for my
handles. I shaped one and pleasantly surprised how well it "turned"
out (pun intended). The question I have is about the freshness of
the wood. It was less than 24 hours after I trimmed the tree, I cut
a piece for the handle. Therefore, that puppy was fresh and easy to
turn. I've heard about letting wood sit to dry out, then finish.
This is the part I haven't any knowledge on. What length of time is
required to dry out? Is the main reason to dry for finishes or
easier to turn? Though I can't imagine it being for easier turning.
That bark and shavings came off like butter. Overall, how do I
handle turning fresh stock? Thanks


Narrow pieces will not take as long to dry out but for regular lumber
the general time frame for natural air drying is about 1 year per
inch of thickness.

You probably will not have to wait that long, given the smaller size
and length, but I would let the piece, cut to approximate length,
dry for a few to several months "before" turning to final size. They will
surely change shape as they dry.

Typically green wood is extremely easy to turn but it will change
shape and maybe crack or twist. Many bowl turners will turn a green
piece to rough shape and then let the piece dry for a year or so
before turning to final shape. This speeds up the drying process.


One of the easiest ways to try wood that's been turned is to stick it
in a box of saw dust, or shavings. It draws it out quicker than air
drying and it doesn't stress it like other methods.

Would alcohol work? It has great affinity for water; if one were to immerse
the piece in alcohol for a while and then remove it, would the alcohol have
mixed with the wood's water leaving it drier?

The slower it dries the less chance of splitting or warping. Speeding the
process might cares un even drying.

Puckdropper puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:



Narrow pieces will not take as long to dry out but for regular lumber
the general time frame for natural air drying is about 1 year per inch
of thickness.

You probably will not have to wait that long, given the smaller size
and length, but I would let the piece, cut to approximate length, dry
for a few to several months "before" turning to final size. They will
surely change shape as they dry.

Typically green wood is extremely easy to turn but it will change
shape and maybe crack or twist. Many bowl turners will turn a green
piece to rough shape and then let the piece dry for a year or so
before turning to final shape. This speeds up the drying process.


Would coating the freshly turned pieces with Anchor Seal or similar help
prevent checks as the wood dries?

Puckdropper

"Maybe". Most sealers are used on the ends of the wood/ log. After turning
you have exposed a lot of extra wood normally protected by bark. Seal those
surfaces and it may not dry at all. BUT I have seen a lot of pieces
totally sealed at local suppliers. Hard to tell if they are or were dried
properly before being sealed.

Leon wrote:

Narrow pieces will not take as long to dry out but for regular lumber
the general time frame for natural air drying is about 1 year per inch
of thickness.

This makes a good take off point Leon. I've also heard the same thing
stated, but then I look at what I experience in cutting firewood - admitedly
a somewhat different thing. That said, I can cut a tree in August or
September, and be burning that tree in December or January - very well.
BTW - I'm talking about burning Maple, Beech and Cherry. Green trees show
that they are green in the wood stove, by the amount of vapor that they put
off while trying to burn. A decently dried piece of hardwood will burn and
put off heat.

Now think about that - these are pieces of wood that are perhaps in the
neighborhood of 4 or 5 inches in diameter (if they were really round
pieces), so they should take 4 or 5 years to dry by this age old adage.
But - they do not.

So - there is perhaps some difference in what makes good burning wood and
what makes good lumber, but the difference cannot be that great. If
firewood can cure to high quality burning within 2 or 3 or 4 months (while
split at much larger sizes), then it just does not make sense to me that
dimensional lumber requires these conventional thinking drying times.

Yes - I understand the concept of wood movement and the way it is spoken of,
but I really have to question just how real that stuff actually is. It has
often occured to me that even the best, most properly dried piece of wood is
subject to absorbing moisture just by sitting in the garage, so it seems
some of this is over exagerated stuff. But - that's not my argument, it's
just the things I think about when people talk about all this stuff.
Mostly - conversation at this point.


--

-Mike-

"Mike Marlow" writes:
Leon wrote:

Narrow pieces will not take as long to dry out but for regular lumber
the general time frame for natural air drying is about 1 year per inch
of thickness.

This makes a good take off point Leon. I've also heard the same thing
stated, but then I look at what I experience in cutting firewood - admitedly

So - there is perhaps some difference in what makes good burning wood and
what makes good lumber, but the difference cannot be that great. If

The moisture content sufficient to burn and the moisture content
required for radial stability are quite different, particularly when
the fire itself is drying the wood.

On 9/9/2015 5:52 AM, Meanie wrote:
On 9/8/2015 11:24 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 9/8/2015 5:25 PM, Leon wrote:
On 9/8/2015 3:41 PM, Meanie wrote:
I'm still in the beginning stages of wood turning but have dabbled with
small items which I've been happy with. I purchased 5 carbide cutters
which came with two metal holders, though one cutter is a diamond shape
and has it's own designated holder. Therefore, I have one holder for
the
other 4 cutters. Anyway, I made holders out of square SS stock and now
need wooden handles to fit.

I trimmed my silver maple tree over the weekend. In doing so, I
realized
the size of some of the branches would be great for my handles. I
shaped
one and pleasantly surprised how well it "turned" out (pun intended).
The question I have is about the freshness of the wood. It was less
than
24 hours after I trimmed the tree, I cut a piece for the handle.
Therefore, that puppy was fresh and easy to turn. I've heard about
letting wood sit to dry out, then finish. This is the part I haven't
any
knowledge on. What length of time is required to dry out? Is the main
reason to dry for finishes or easier to turn? Though I can't imagine it
being for easier turning. That bark and shavings came off like butter.
Overall, how do I handle turning fresh stock?

Thanks


Narrow pieces will not take as long to dry out but for regular lumber
the general time frame for natural air drying is about 1 year per inch
of thickness.

You probably will not have to wait that long, given the smaller size and
length, but I would let the piece, cut to approximate length, dry for a
few to several months "before" turning to final size. They will surely
change shape as they dry.

Typically green wood is extremely easy to turn but it will change shape
and maybe crack or twist. Many bowl turners will turn a green piece to
rough shape and then let the piece dry for a year or so before turning
to final shape. This speeds up the drying process.


One of the easiest ways to try wood that's been turned is to stick it in
a box of saw dust, or shavings. It draws it out quicker than air drying
and it doesn't stress it like other methods.




The same shavings which came off the turned piece?
No, dry shavings. They wick the moisture away nicely. Or so I have read
dozens of times.

--
Jeff

Scott Lurndal wrote:
"Mike Marlow" writes:
Leon wrote:

Narrow pieces will not take as long to dry out but for regular
lumber the general time frame for natural air drying is about 1
year per inch of thickness.

This makes a good take off point Leon. I've also heard the same
thing stated, but then I look at what I experience in cutting
firewood - admitedly

So - there is perhaps some difference in what makes good burning
wood and what makes good lumber, but the difference cannot be that
great. If

The moisture content sufficient to burn and the moisture content
required for radial stability are quite different, particularly when
the fire itself is drying the wood.

Not true Scott. When the moisture content of wood is high, you do not get a
fire. Try it. You will see a piece of wood that does not get going, and
that almost extinguishes itself with its own moisture. I submit that your
comment is not accurate at all. Though I may be wrong, your comment is just
too generic at this point.

So - think about it this way Scott - if wood can go from fresh cut to
burnable in the space of 3 months, at dimensions 4 or 5 times that of
dimensional lumber, then does it seem logical that a piece of dimensional
lumber really requires 1 year per inch to dry?

--

-Mike-

On 9/9/2015 11:06 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:

Narrow pieces will not take as long to dry out but for regular lumber
the general time frame for natural air drying is about 1 year per inch
of thickness.

This makes a good take off point Leon. I've also heard the same thing
stated, but then I look at what I experience in cutting firewood - admitedly
a somewhat different thing. That said, I can cut a tree in August or
September, and be burning that tree in December or January - very well.
BTW - I'm talking about burning Maple, Beech and Cherry. Green trees show
that they are green in the wood stove, by the amount of vapor that they put
off while trying to burn. A decently dried piece of hardwood will burn and
put off heat.

Now think about that - these are pieces of wood that are perhaps in the
neighborhood of 4 or 5 inches in diameter (if they were really round
pieces), so they should take 4 or 5 years to dry by this age old adage.
But - they do not.

So - there is perhaps some difference in what makes good burning wood and
what makes good lumber, but the difference cannot be that great. If
firewood can cure to high quality burning within 2 or 3 or 4 months (while
split at much larger sizes), then it just does not make sense to me that
dimensional lumber requires these conventional thinking drying times.


Good burning wood is typically horrible for building. It has been split
and cracked and lost its moisture way too quickly. That is why it has
cracks and splits.





Yes - I understand the concept of wood movement and the way it is spoken of,
but I really have to question just how real that stuff actually is. It has
often occured to me that even the best, most properly dried piece of wood is
subject to absorbing moisture just by sitting in the garage, so it seems
some of this is over exagerated stuff. But - that's not my argument, it's
just the things I think about when people talk about all this stuff.
Mostly - conversation at this point.

On 9/9/2015 4:55 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Scott Lurndal wrote:
"Mike Marlow" writes:
Leon wrote:

Narrow pieces will not take as long to dry out but for regular
lumber the general time frame for natural air drying is about 1
year per inch of thickness.

This makes a good take off point Leon. I've also heard the same
thing stated, but then I look at what I experience in cutting
firewood - admitedly

So - there is perhaps some difference in what makes good burning
wood and what makes good lumber, but the difference cannot be that
great. If

The moisture content sufficient to burn and the moisture content
required for radial stability are quite different, particularly when
the fire itself is drying the wood.

Not true Scott. When the moisture content of wood is high, you do not get a
fire. Try it. You will see a piece of wood that does not get going, and
that almost extinguishes itself with its own moisture. I submit that your
comment is not accurate at all. Though I may be wrong, your comment is just
too generic at this point.

Actually I have burned relatively green wood in my fire place that leaks
bubbling water from the ends and then drips to the bottom of the
fireplace. It burns slower but does burn.



So - think about it this way Scott - if wood can go from fresh cut to
burnable in the space of 3 months, at dimensions 4 or 5 times that of
dimensional lumber, then does it seem logical that a piece of dimensional
lumber really requires 1 year per inch to dry?

You would not want to build fine furniture with wood that is cut to be
firewood. It would change shape quickly.
I repaired a coffee table several years ago that was make from walnut
that was not properly dried. It bowed and the joint broke open.

There is the crack and the inlay grove I cut to receive a piece of
walnut to fill the void.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/

The fix

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/

Leon wrote:


Actually I have burned relatively green wood in my fire place that
leaks bubbling water from the ends and then drips to the bottom of the
fireplace. It burns slower but does burn.

Anyone who burns a wood stove will tell you that this is not true Leon. It
will smolder, but it will not burn. I've been burning wood for too many
years for anyone to tell me they can actually burn green wood. I guess it
depends on your definition of the word "burns".



You would not want to build fine furniture with wood that is cut to be
firewood. It would change shape quickly.
I repaired a coffee table several years ago that was make from walnut
that was not properly dried. It bowed and the joint broke open.

I agree with what you say and I tried to state that in my original thoughts,
but I still wonder about the whole notion of 1 year of drying time per inch
of wood.



--

-Mike-

Leon wrote:

Good burning wood is typically horrible for building. It has been
split and cracked and lost its moisture way too quickly. That is why
it has cracks and splits.


Yup - I fully get the difference between the two pieces of wood, but you're
missing my point. If a hunk of maple can dry to 10% (or whatever it may
be...) in chunk form within 3 months or so, then a 1" slab should not take 1
year to dry the same way. It does not matter what the intended use of the
wood is, it's still just a piece of wood. The same kind of wood. If
anything, the 1" piece should dry faster.

I question why you say the split piece has lost its moisture too quickly.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but it can only lose its moisture at a
given rate. It can't lose it it any faster than a board of the same wood.
In fact, I would think the board would lose it faster, given the surface
area of the board.

--

-Mike-

On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 5:21:51 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 9/9/2015 4:55 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Scott Lurndal wrote:
"Mike Marlow" writes:
Leon wrote:

Narrow pieces will not take as long to dry out but for regular
lumber the general time frame for natural air drying is about 1
year per inch of thickness.

This makes a good take off point Leon. I've also heard the same
thing stated, but then I look at what I experience in cutting
firewood - admitedly

So - there is perhaps some difference in what makes good burning
wood and what makes good lumber, but the difference cannot be that
great. If

The moisture content sufficient to burn and the moisture content
required for radial stability are quite different, particularly when
the fire itself is drying the wood.

Not true Scott. When the moisture content of wood is high, you do not get a
fire. Try it. You will see a piece of wood that does not get going, and
that almost extinguishes itself with its own moisture. I submit that your
comment is not accurate at all. Though I may be wrong, your comment is just
too generic at this point.

Actually I have burned relatively green wood in my fire place that leaks
bubbling water from the ends and then drips to the bottom of the
fireplace. It burns slower but does burn.

Yes, green will burn, e.g., forest fires.

Michael wrote:


Yes, green will burn, e.g., forest fires.

That's a horse of an entirely different color. Much higher tempertures
involved there. Not at all the same as burning firewood in a wood stove.

--

-Mike-

I've put my wet bowls with more diameter to work on inside
and out - rough turned - into a sealed paper sack. Wait a month
and put it on the lathe to complete. The paper leaks moisture
slowly. Keep out of the sun - don't cook it.

I have also microwaved fine finished bowls on very low power then
when plasticized I bend or distort the bowl shapes.

Martin

On 9/8/2015 5:27 PM, Meanie wrote:
On 9/8/2015 6:02 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:



Narrow pieces will not take as long to dry out but for regular lumber
the general time frame for natural air drying is about 1 year per inch
of thickness.

You probably will not have to wait that long, given the smaller size
and length, but I would let the piece, cut to approximate length, dry
for a few to several months "before" turning to final size. They will
surely change shape as they dry.

Typically green wood is extremely easy to turn but it will change
shape and maybe crack or twist. Many bowl turners will turn a green
piece to rough shape and then let the piece dry for a year or so
before turning to final shape. This speeds up the drying process.


Would coating the freshly turned pieces with Anchor Seal or similar help
prevent checks as the wood dries?

Puckdropper


You took my thought right out of my head. I await the answer.

Somebody wrote:


Actually I have burned relatively green wood in my fire place that
leaks
bubbling water from the ends and then drips to the bottom of the
fireplace. It burns slower but does burn.
--------------------------------------------------
"Michael" wrote:

Yes, green will burn, e.g., forest fires.
-------------------------------------------------
Sorry folks, you are getting the horse-s**t confused with the alfalfa.

Water boils at 212F.

Wood fibers combust at a much higher temperature.

The 212F water must be vaporized and driven off before the
remaining wood fibers can begin to combust.

If you can create conditions where the wood fiber is at or above
combustion temperature and water vapor has not exceeded 212F,
you get the conditions where fibers are burning and adjacent fibers
are just smoldering.

In whatever configuration you have, vaporizing water reduces the
efficiency of the combustion process.

Lew


Lew

Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:

Good burning wood is typically horrible for building. It has been
split and cracked and lost its moisture way too quickly. That is why
it has cracks and splits.


Yup - I fully get the difference between the two pieces of wood, but you're
missing my point. If a hunk of maple can dry to 10% (or whatever it may
be...) in chunk form within 3 months or so, then a 1" slab should not take 1
year to dry the same way. It does not matter what the intended use of the
wood is, it's still just a piece of wood. The same kind of wood. If
anything, the 1" piece should dry faster.

I question why you say the split piece has lost its moisture too quickly.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but it can only lose its moisture at a
given rate. It can't lose it it any faster than a board of the same wood.
In fact, I would think the board would lose it faster, given the surface
area of the board.

Perhaps in shorter pieces the endgrain is closer to the center than
long boards, and much of the water is lost though the endgrain. That
is the logic behind sealing the end grain to retard drying.

--
GW Ross

A conclusion is the place where you
get tired of thinking. (Arthur Bloch)

I drove a wood stove for 17 years in the mountains.
We used various woods - some off the property but mostly from
the wood man.

Every now and then we would get some wood that was a bit green
and yes it would boil out the water dry out twist and pop (it was
Madrone naturally) and burn.

Water logged wood - on the muddy bottom (I use Poly pallets for my wood
stacks here, Had a nice Redwood crib I built with my brother there)
would take to much to heat to dry out and might cinder. But if one
had a good roaring fire green wood burns after a while. You don't want
a load of green wood, the fire might never get started. I was near that
and used 3 fire starting sticks to heat the unit hot enough to start a
fire. Ugly. It was after 2 weeks of constant pouring my path to the
wood bin was jelly and my on-porch rick was just consumed. I found some
wood on the lower deck that was destined to the wood lathe but got the
fire instead.

Martin

On 9/9/2015 5:56 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:


Actually I have burned relatively green wood in my fire place that
leaks bubbling water from the ends and then drips to the bottom of the
fireplace. It burns slower but does burn.

Anyone who burns a wood stove will tell you that this is not true Leon. It
will smolder, but it will not burn. I've been burning wood for too many
years for anyone to tell me they can actually burn green wood. I guess it
depends on your definition of the word "burns".



You would not want to build fine furniture with wood that is cut to be
firewood. It would change shape quickly.
I repaired a coffee table several years ago that was make from walnut
that was not properly dried. It bowed and the joint broke open.

I agree with what you say and I tried to state that in my original thoughts,
but I still wonder about the whole notion of 1 year of drying time per inch
of wood.

On Wed, 09 Sep 2015 20:34:35 -0400, "G. Ross"
wrote:

Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:

Good burning wood is typically horrible for building. It has been
split and cracked and lost its moisture way too quickly. That is why
it has cracks and splits.


Yup - I fully get the difference between the two pieces of wood, but you're
missing my point. If a hunk of maple can dry to 10% (or whatever it may
be...) in chunk form within 3 months or so, then a 1" slab should not take 1
year to dry the same way. It does not matter what the intended use of the
wood is, it's still just a piece of wood. The same kind of wood. If
anything, the 1" piece should dry faster.

I question why you say the split piece has lost its moisture too quickly.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but it can only lose its moisture at a
given rate. It can't lose it it any faster than a board of the same wood.
In fact, I would think the board would lose it faster, given the surface
area of the

Perhaps in shorter pieces the endgrain is closer to the center than
long boards, and much of the water is lost though the endgrain. That
is the logic behind sealing the end grain to retard drying.


I think you've squarely hit the proverbial nail. One wants to dry
firewood as quickly as possible. OTOH, the idea behind drying lumber
is to dry it evenly. That means slowing down the process, as you
suggest.

On 09/09/2015 6:15 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
I've put my wet bowls with more diameter to work on inside
and out - rough turned - into a sealed paper sack. Wait a month
and put it on the lathe to complete. The paper leaks moisture
slowly. Keep out of the sun - don't cook it.

I do that but also fill the bag with the turning shavings. I have also
sealed the outside with end sealer on occasion.
Graham

"Mike Marlow" wrote:
Leon wrote:

Good burning wood is typically horrible for building. It has been
split and cracked and lost its moisture way too quickly. That is why
it has cracks and splits.


Yup - I fully get the difference between the two pieces of wood, but you're
missing my point. If a hunk of maple can dry to 10% (or whatever it may
be...) in chunk form within 3 months or so, then a 1" slab should not take 1
year to dry the same way. It does not matter what the intended use of the
wood is, it's still just a piece of wood. The same kind of wood. If
anything, the 1" piece should dry faster.

I question why you say the split piece has lost its moisture too quickly.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but it can only lose its moisture at a
given rate. It can't lose it it any faster than a board of the same wood.
In fact, I would think the board would lose it faster, given the surface
area of the board.


Split firewood is shorter and typically has numerous splits. While the
majority of the drying is through the ends, splits can effectively make
parts of the firewood thinner in spots. But shorter pieces is the main
difference. Lumber is seldom cut shorter than eight feet for drying. It
takes much longer for the moisture to reach the ends of the wood than 18-24
inch firewood.

"Mike Marlow" wrote:
Leon wrote:


Actually I have burned relatively green wood in my fire place that
leaks bubbling water from the ends and then drips to the bottom of the
fireplace. It burns slower but does burn.

Anyone who burns a wood stove will tell you that this is not true Leon. It
will smolder, but it will not burn. I've been burning wood for too many
years for anyone to tell me they can actually burn green wood. I guess it
depends on your definition of the word "burns".

Well I only burned our fireplace in our other home for 30 years. It burns
and is gone by morning. FWIW I burned in a fireplace and not a stove.
Perhaps the limited air flow of a stove hampers the burn.





You would not want to build fine furniture with wood that is cut to be
firewood. It would change shape quickly.
I repaired a coffee table several years ago that was make from walnut
that was not properly dried. It bowed and the joint broke open.

I agree with what you say and I tried to state that in my original thoughts,
but I still wonder about the whole notion of 1 year of drying time per inch
of wood.

Leon wrote:


Split firewood is shorter and typically has numerous splits. While
the majority of the drying is through the ends, splits can
effectively make parts of the firewood thinner in spots. But shorter
pieces is the main difference. Lumber is seldom cut shorter than
eight feet for drying. It takes much longer for the moisture to
reach the ends of the wood than 18-24 inch firewood.

Well - if wood primarilly sheds its moisture through the ends, then that
would indeed make sense.

--

-Mike-

Leon wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote:
Leon wrote:


Actually I have burned relatively green wood in my fire place that
leaks bubbling water from the ends and then drips to the bottom of
the fireplace. It burns slower but does burn.

Anyone who burns a wood stove will tell you that this is not true
Leon. It will smolder, but it will not burn. I've been burning
wood for too many years for anyone to tell me they can actually burn
green wood. I guess it depends on your definition of the word
"burns".

Well I only burned our fireplace in our other home for 30 years. It
burns and is gone by morning. FWIW I burned in a fireplace and not a
stove. Perhaps the limited air flow of a stove hampers the burn.


Like you, I've been burning for over 30 years, but to be fair - and I should
have included this exception in my earlier comments... it does depend a lot
on the wood in question. Of the common woods found around here, the most
common exception is Ash. You can literally cut an Ash tree down and burn it
the same day, and get good heat out of that hunk of wood. For all I know,
there may be other types of trees that are not commom to our area, which
behave like Ash. Not so with Maple or Beech, or Cherry. Unseasoned Maple,
Beech, Cherry will sizzle as the water is boiled out of the wood, and will
not generate any amount of heat as the water cools the fire. You can hear
it and you can see the water boiling out of the wood. Around here, we
generally leave the Ash standing in case we find ourselves in need of more
wood in February.

--

-Mike-


--

-Mike-

On 9/10/2015 8:06 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:


Split firewood is shorter and typically has numerous splits. While
the majority of the drying is through the ends, splits can
effectively make parts of the firewood thinner in spots. But shorter
pieces is the main difference. Lumber is seldom cut shorter than
eight feet for drying. It takes much longer for the moisture to
reach the ends of the wood than 18-24 inch firewood.

Well - if wood primarilly sheds its moisture through the ends, then that
would indeed make sense.



Stick a green log in the fire place and see where the moisture comes
out. Oh wait, we have already been there. LOL.

On 9/10/2015 8:16 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote:
Leon wrote:


Actually I have burned relatively green wood in my fire place that
leaks bubbling water from the ends and then drips to the bottom of
the fireplace. It burns slower but does burn.

Anyone who burns a wood stove will tell you that this is not true
Leon. It will smolder, but it will not burn. I've been burning
wood for too many years for anyone to tell me they can actually burn
green wood. I guess it depends on your definition of the word
"burns".

Well I only burned our fireplace in our other home for 30 years. It
burns and is gone by morning. FWIW I burned in a fireplace and not a
stove. Perhaps the limited air flow of a stove hampers the burn.


Like you, I've been burning for over 30 years, but to be fair - and I should
have included this exception in my earlier comments... it does depend a lot
on the wood in question. Of the common woods found around here, the most
common exception is Ash. You can literally cut an Ash tree down and burn it
the same day, and get good heat out of that hunk of wood. For all I know,
there may be other types of trees that are not commom to our area, which
behave like Ash. Not so with Maple or Beech, or Cherry. Unseasoned Maple,
Beech, Cherry will sizzle as the water is boiled out of the wood, and will
not generate any amount of heat as the water cools the fire. You can hear
it and you can see the water boiling out of the wood. Around here, we
generally leave the Ash standing in case we find ourselves in need of more
wood in February.


Down here we generally burn oak and hickory for heat, I clueless how
green it is as I have it delivered. But it burns. Mesquite for cooking.
If my wood has been in the rain I'll put it in front of the fireplace to
dry faster.

Leon wrote:
On 9/10/2015 8:06 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:


Split firewood is shorter and typically has numerous splits. While
the majority of the drying is through the ends, splits can
effectively make parts of the firewood thinner in spots. But
shorter pieces is the main difference. Lumber is seldom cut
shorter than eight feet for drying. It takes much longer for the
moisture to reach the ends of the wood than 18-24 inch firewood.

Well - if wood primarilly sheds its moisture through the ends, then
that would indeed make sense.



Stick a green log in the fire place and see where the moisture comes
out. Oh wait, we have already been there. LOL.

Actually - you can watch the water coming out all across the split. Ask me
how I know this...

--

-Mike-

Leon wrote:


Down here we generally burn oak and hickory for heat, I clueless how
green it is as I have it delivered. But it burns. Mesquite for
cooking. If my wood has been in the rain I'll put it in front of the
fireplace to dry faster.

In this part of NY, oak can be common, but not in my immediate area. Almost
all Maple, Beech and Cherry. In the eastern part of the state (and maybe
other parts - I don't know), Hickory can be common. Both are great
firewood, but I just don't have any of it on my property.

I keep about a day's worth of wood in a little craddle beside the stove for
the same reason. I tarp over the wood that is stacked outside, and I have 3
months worth stacked on the front porch at the beginning of each heating
season (not enclosed, but does have a roof over it). For the most part, it
really does not get all that wet once it's stacked. It's surprising though,
how little water is actually absorbed into wood from rain or snow, once it's
seasoned. I've gone through heating seasons without tarping over my outside
wood stacks and to be honest - there's not a lot of difference between the
tarped over wood and the stuff that was not. Mostly just the mess that you
bring into the house if the wood gets a snow build up on it. Not so much in
terms of how it burns.

--

-Mike-

On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 11:06:52 AM UTC-5, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:

Narrow pieces will not take as long to dry out but for regular lumber
the general time frame for natural air drying is about 1 year per inch
of thickness.

This makes a good take off point Leon. I've also heard the same thing
stated, but then I look at what I experience in cutting firewood - admitedly
a somewhat different thing. That said, I can cut a tree in August or
September, and be burning that tree in December or January - very well.
BTW - I'm talking about burning Maple, Beech and Cherry. Green trees show
that they are green in the wood stove, by the amount of vapor that they put
off while trying to burn. A decently dried piece of hardwood will burn and
put off heat.

Now think about that - these are pieces of wood that are perhaps in the
neighborhood of 4 or 5 inches in diameter (if they were really round
pieces), so they should take 4 or 5 years to dry by this age old adage.
But - they do not.

So - there is perhaps some difference in what makes good burning wood and
what makes good lumber, but the difference cannot be that great. If
firewood can cure to high quality burning within 2 or 3 or 4 months (while
split at much larger sizes), then it just does not make sense to me that
dimensional lumber requires these conventional thinking drying times.

Yes - I understand the concept of wood movement and the way it is spoken of,
but I really have to question just how real that stuff actually is. It has
often occured to me that even the best, most properly dried piece of wood is
subject to absorbing moisture just by sitting in the garage, so it seems
some of this is over exagerated stuff. But - that's not my argument, it's
just the things I think about when people talk about all this stuff.
Mostly - conversation at this point.


--

-Mike-


The 1 year of drying for 1 inch of thickness concept applies to moisture coming out of the face grain of wood. Not the end grain. So it is possible a 2 inch thick piece of wood might take 2 years of drying to get down to 8% moisture content if the end grain was sealed with paint or tar or wax. All of the drying occurs through the non-porous face grain. Very slowly. And hopefully this slow loss of moisture will prevent cracks in the wood.

Your story of firewood drying quickly is about the wood drying through the end grain. Since you do not coat the firewood end grain when it is drying. None of the moisture loss occurs through the sides of the logs waiting to be burned. All the moisture evaporates through the end grain. And of course your firewood is not as dry as furniture wood. It might be 15-20-25% moisture content. More than dry enough to burn nicely. While furniture wood is around 8% moisture content. And I suspect the last few percentage of drying takes longer than the first few percentage. Drying of wood is not linear. It takes much, much longer to go from 15% to 10% than it does to go from 35% to 30%.

On 09/09/2015 4:55 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
....

So - think about it this way Scott - if wood can go from fresh cut to
burnable in the space of 3 months, at dimensions 4 or 5 times that of
dimensional lumber, then does it seem logical that a piece of dimensional
lumber really requires 1 year per inch to dry?

I suggest you read some...

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/products/publications/specific_pub.php?posting_id=16923&header_id=p

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/products/publications/specific_pub.php?posting_id=14208&header_id=p

plus if you've not read Hoadley, it's a must...

http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Wood-Craftsmans-Guide-Technology/dp/1561583588/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1441910639&sr=8-1&keywords=hoadley+understanding+wood

--