I am building a cabinet with sliding doors (due to space constraints).
It is 36" high, 74" long and made from cherry plywood. I got 1/4" cherry
for the sliding doors that are to run in a sliding door track I
purchased from Rockler.

The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice. It started
warping and it very difficult to fit in the sliding door track. The rest
of the project is complete but I need to find a better choice for the
sliding doors (something that is stable and straight). I finished the
doors the same as the cabinet(50/50 blend of Watco natural oil and poly
followed by two coats of poly after the watco blend had fully dried)
but clearly I need to changes horses. Do you have any suggestions for me?

TIA.

Dick Snyder

Dick Snyder wrote in
:

I am building a cabinet with sliding doors (due to space constraints).
It is 36" high, 74" long and made from cherry plywood. I got 1/4"
cherry for the sliding doors that are to run in a sliding door track I
purchased from Rockler.

The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice. It started
warping and it very difficult to fit in the sliding door track. The
rest of the project is complete but I need to find a better choice for
the sliding doors (something that is stable and straight). I finished
the doors the same as the cabinet(50/50 blend of Watco natural oil and
poly followed by two coats of poly after the watco blend had fully
dried) but clearly I need to changes horses. Do you have any
suggestions for me?

If I understand you correctly, you're running the 1/4 ply
directly in the track?

I don't think that will work - plywood is not rigid enough
for that sort of purpose. Usually when the door runs
directly in the track, it's tempered glass, which is very
rigid.

For a wooden door, I think you're going to have to build
a frame around the panel with 3/4 solid lumber, and use
sliding door guides, like these:

http://www.rockler.com/european-styl...-door-hardware

John

On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 14:18:37 -0400, Dick Snyder
wrote:

I am building a cabinet with sliding doors (due to space constraints).
It is 36" high, 74" long and made from cherry plywood. I got 1/4" cherry
for the sliding doors that are to run in a sliding door track I
purchased from Rockler.

The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice. It started
warping and it very difficult to fit in the sliding door track. The rest
of the project is complete but I need to find a better choice for the
sliding doors (something that is stable and straight). I finished the
doors the same as the cabinet(50/50 blend of Watco natural oil and poly
followed by two coats of poly after the watco blend had fully dried)
but clearly I need to changes horses. Do you have any suggestions for me?

TIA.

Dick Snyder

Did you finish both sides of the ply? If not, it WILL warp. Also, is
there a way to "frame" the plywood with something like a metal channel
(finished in oiled broze or something that doesn't stick out too much
from the cherry?)

On 3/14/2015 2:37 PM, John McCoy wrote:
Dick Snyder wrote in
:

I am building a cabinet with sliding doors (due to space constraints).
It is 36" high, 74" long and made from cherry plywood. I got 1/4"
cherry for the sliding doors that are to run in a sliding door track I
purchased from Rockler.

The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice. It started
warping and it very difficult to fit in the sliding door track. The
rest of the project is complete but I need to find a better choice for
the sliding doors (something that is stable and straight). I finished
the doors the same as the cabinet(50/50 blend of Watco natural oil and
poly followed by two coats of poly after the watco blend had fully
dried) but clearly I need to changes horses. Do you have any
suggestions for me?

If I understand you correctly, you're running the 1/4 ply
directly in the track?

I don't think that will work - plywood is not rigid enough
for that sort of purpose. Usually when the door runs
directly in the track, it's tempered glass, which is very
rigid.

For a wooden door, I think you're going to have to build
a frame around the panel with 3/4 solid lumber, and use
sliding door guides, like these:

http://www.rockler.com/european-styl...-door-hardware

John

When I read the reviews of the track on the Rockler website, everyone
had used 1/4" plywood directly in the track. The picture on the Rockler
website showed bypass glass doors. I think I will call Rockler on Monday
to see what they have to say. I got my plywood from a very high turnover
dealer here in eastern Mass so I assume I just made a bad choice of
wood rather than buying crappy wood. I think I will call them too to see
what they have to say. I don't have enough room in the bypass to use
3/4" plywood. I am kind of stuck with my design.

On 3/14/2015 2:43 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 14:18:37 -0400, Dick Snyder
wrote:

I am building a cabinet with sliding doors (due to space constraints).
It is 36" high, 74" long and made from cherry plywood. I got 1/4" cherry
for the sliding doors that are to run in a sliding door track I
purchased from Rockler.

The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice. It started
warping and it very difficult to fit in the sliding door track. The rest
of the project is complete but I need to find a better choice for the
sliding doors (something that is stable and straight). I finished the
doors the same as the cabinet(50/50 blend of Watco natural oil and poly
followed by two coats of poly after the watco blend had fully dried)
but clearly I need to changes horses. Do you have any suggestions for me?

TIA.

Dick Snyder

Did you finish both sides of the ply? If not, it WILL warp. Also, is
there a way to "frame" the plywood with something like a metal channel
(finished in oiled broze or something that doesn't stick out too much
from the cherry?)

I did not finish both sides but even before I finished it, the wood was
warping. I had (foolishly) hoped that the upper and lower track would
straighten things out. I just replied to another poster than I will call
Rockler on Monday to see what they have to say as well as my (excellent)
plywood supplier.

Dick Snyder wrote:
I am building a cabinet with sliding doors (due to space constraints).
It is 36" high, 74" long and made from cherry plywood. I got 1/4"
cherry for the sliding doors that are to run in a sliding door track I
purchased from Rockler.

The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice. It started
warping and it very difficult to fit in the sliding door track. The
rest of the project is complete but I need to find a better choice
for the sliding doors (something that is stable and straight). I
finished the doors the same as the cabinet(50/50 blend of Watco
natural oil and poly followed by two coats of poly after the watco
blend had fully dried) but clearly I need to changes horses. Do you have
any suggestions for
me?

I have used 1/4" ply without problems but only smaller doors (up to 18"-24"
high).

I have also used it in bigger doors with the same result as you. In fact, I
have 4 cabinet doors - about 36" tall - in an upper cabinet in our laundry
room with that problem but they are frame & panel, not sliding. I posted
about them many months ago, the general consensus was that it was the frame
warping, not the ply. I disagree, they will be remade someday.

Even in smaller doors, I have had occasional minor problems. My fix was to
glue a piece of wood across them at top & bottom. That works but you need
enough space between them. The best solution is to use thicker ply, same
caveat about space.

For a non-warping panel for your current needs, I would suggest Masonite
(hardboard). It is butt-ugly but can be painted nicely. Or covered with
wallpaper. Or even veneered (both sides). In either case, should you go that
route, search out hardboard that has NOT been made on a screen; that results
in one smooth side, one rough. You would want both to be smooth (or at
least I would).

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 3/14/2015 3:46 PM, dadiOH wrote:
Dick Snyder wrote:
I am building a cabinet with sliding doors (due to space constraints).
It is 36" high, 74" long and made from cherry plywood. I got 1/4"
cherry for the sliding doors that are to run in a sliding door track I
purchased from Rockler.

The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice. It started
warping and it very difficult to fit in the sliding door track. The
rest of the project is complete but I need to find a better choice
for the sliding doors (something that is stable and straight). I
finished the doors the same as the cabinet(50/50 blend of Watco
natural oil and poly followed by two coats of poly after the watco
blend had fully dried) but clearly I need to changes horses. Do you have
any suggestions for
me?

I have used 1/4" ply without problems but only smaller doors (up to 18"-24"
high).

I have also used it in bigger doors with the same result as you. In fact, I
have 4 cabinet doors - about 36" tall - in an upper cabinet in our laundry
room with that problem but they are frame & panel, not sliding. I posted
about them many months ago, the general consensus was that it was the frame
warping, not the ply. I disagree, they will be remade someday.

Even in smaller doors, I have had occasional minor problems. My fix was to
glue a piece of wood across them at top & bottom. That works but you need
enough space between them. The best solution is to use thicker ply, same
caveat about space.

For a non-warping panel for your current needs, I would suggest Masonite
(hardboard). It is butt-ugly but can be painted nicely. Or covered with
wallpaper. Or even veneered (both sides). In either case, should you go that
route, search out hardboard that has NOT been made on a screen; that results
in one smooth side, one rough. You would want both to be smooth (or at
least I would).

I think I now understand why all the reviewers of the Rockler bypass
door sliders were able to use 1/4" plywood. Their doors were not as big
as mine.

I do not have enough space between the doors to put in a stiffener. I am
going to call my plywood supplier to see if they have any better ideas.
Otherwise I may go with painted hardboard.

Thanks for helping me understand why I got the warping.

Dick

On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 15:15:26 -0400, Dick Snyder
wrote:

On 3/14/2015 2:37 PM, John McCoy wrote:
Dick Snyder wrote in
:

I am building a cabinet with sliding doors (due to space constraints).
It is 36" high, 74" long and made from cherry plywood. I got 1/4"
cherry for the sliding doors that are to run in a sliding door track I
purchased from Rockler.

The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice. It started
warping and it very difficult to fit in the sliding door track. The
rest of the project is complete but I need to find a better choice for
the sliding doors (something that is stable and straight). I finished
the doors the same as the cabinet(50/50 blend of Watco natural oil and
poly followed by two coats of poly after the watco blend had fully
dried) but clearly I need to changes horses. Do you have any
suggestions for me?

If I understand you correctly, you're running the 1/4 ply
directly in the track?

I don't think that will work - plywood is not rigid enough
for that sort of purpose. Usually when the door runs
directly in the track, it's tempered glass, which is very
rigid.

For a wooden door, I think you're going to have to build
a frame around the panel with 3/4 solid lumber, and use
sliding door guides, like these:

http://www.rockler.com/european-styl...-door-hardware

John

When I read the reviews of the track on the Rockler website, everyone
had used 1/4" plywood directly in the track. The picture on the Rockler
website showed bypass glass doors. I think I will call Rockler on Monday
to see what they have to say. I got my plywood from a very high turnover
dealer here in eastern Mass so I assume I just made a bad choice of
wood rather than buying crappy wood. I think I will call them too to see
what they have to say. I don't have enough room in the bypass to use
3/4" plywood. I am kind of stuck with my design.

In a situation where the enclosure is complete and the thickness of
the doors has been defined as 1/4", no more, no less; I'd recommend
glass for the door material. You could have the glass frosted, smoked
or whatever, but if you insist on wood doors you have some demo to do
and some more design work.

Good Luck.

On 3/14/2015 2:18 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
I did not finish both sides but even before I finished it,

Always finish both sides of plywood panels.

While the fact that you didn't may not be the entire reason the 1/4" ply
warped so badly, it is most certainly a contributing factor not in you
favor.

What grade was the ply?

Lower grades of 1/4" plywood are notorious for turning into potato
chips, particularly if they are subjected to sunlight and wet conditions
on only one side (even on the ride home to the shop, but a plywood grade
like A-1 usually gives you a better chance.

There are some ways to solve the problem if you have enough clearance.

Might want to consider salvaging your investment by making 3/4" frame
and panel doors, with the top and bottom door rails having a 1/4" tongue
that fits in the groove.

You should be able to cut a tongue quickly and easily with a table saw,
and since it it won't be seen, it doesn't have to be pretty.

You could even make frame and panel doors 1/2" shorter in height, then
glue nail a 1/4" strip on the rails in the appropriate location as a tongue.

Be creative ...

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 3/14/2015 3:57 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 3/14/2015 2:18 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
I did not finish both sides but even before I finished it,

Always finish both sides of plywood panels.

While the fact that you didn't may not be the entire reason the 1/4" ply
warped so badly, it is most certainly a contributing factor not in you
favor.

What grade was the ply?

Lower grades of 1/4" plywood are notorious for turning into potato
chips, particularly if they are subjected to sunlight and wet conditions
on only one side (even on the ride home to the shop, but a plywood grade
like A-1 usually gives you a better chance.

There are some ways to solve the problem if you have enough clearance.

Might want to consider salvaging your investment by making 3/4" frame
and panel doors, with the top and bottom door rails having a 1/4" tongue
that fits in the groove.

You should be able to cut a tongue quickly and easily with a table saw,
and since it it won't be seen, it doesn't have to be pretty.

You could even make frame and panel doors 1/2" shorter in height, then
glue nail a 1/4" strip on the rails in the appropriate location as a
tongue.

Be creative ...


Yeppers. I put the strip in the center but OP could put it on the edges.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/100373064@N03/

On 3/14/2015 5:57 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 3/14/2015 2:18 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
I did not finish both sides but even before I finished it,

Always finish both sides of plywood panels.

While the fact that you didn't may not be the entire reason the 1/4" ply
warped so badly, it is most certainly a contributing factor not in you
favor.

What grade was the ply?

Lower grades of 1/4" plywood are notorious for turning into potato
chips, particularly if they are subjected to sunlight and wet conditions
on only one side (even on the ride home to the shop, but a plywood grade
like A-1 usually gives you a better chance.

There are some ways to solve the problem if you have enough clearance.

Might want to consider salvaging your investment by making 3/4" frame
and panel doors, with the top and bottom door rails having a 1/4" tongue
that fits in the groove.

You should be able to cut a tongue quickly and easily with a table saw,
and since it it won't be seen, it doesn't have to be pretty.

You could even make frame and panel doors 1/2" shorter in height, then
glue nail a 1/4" strip on the rails in the appropriate location as a
tongue.

Be creative ...

There are two doors, each 30" high and 37" wide. They need to be able to
pass by each other so that half of the shelves are open at a time. The
shelves will store cook books etc. I don't see yet how frame and panel
doors would be able to pass by each other in the space (depth) that I
have. My current thinking is to find some other 1/4" thick material that
is stiff and would allow me to keep my basic design.

Dick Snyder wrote in
:

I do not have enough space between the doors to put in a stiffener. I
am going to call my plywood supplier to see if they have any better
ideas. Otherwise I may go with painted hardboard.

This is a bit of a long shot, but if you have a source of
1/16" veneers you could try making up your own plywood.
Put the two inner layers at 45 degrees to the outer layer
(and 90 degrees to each other, of course), and use epoxy
(West System or System Three or similar) to glue it all
together. You'll want to glue it up on something flat,
and have another something flat to put on top together
with a bunch of weights while the glue dries (and plastic
wrap between so you don't glue your panel to it). The
result will be a lot stiffer than any commercial panel.

Otherwise I'd be tempted to go with Gordon's suggestion
of frosted glass.

John

On 3/14/2015 5:12 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
There are two doors, each 30" high and 37" wide. They need to be able to
pass by each other so that half of the shelves are open at a time. The
shelves will store cook books etc. I don't see yet how frame and panel
doors would be able to pass by each other in the space (depth) that I
have. My current thinking is to find some other 1/4" thick material that
is stiff and would allow me to keep my basic design.

If the design permits, go for it.

Doesn't sound like that option would break the bank.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

Dick Snyder wrote:
On 3/14/2015 3:46 PM, dadiOH wrote:
Dick Snyder wrote:
I am building a cabinet with sliding doors (due to space constraints).
It is 36" high, 74" long and made from cherry plywood. I got 1/4"
cherry for the sliding doors that are to run in a sliding door track I
purchased from Rockler.

The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice. It started
warping and it very difficult to fit in the sliding door track. The
rest of the project is complete but I need to find a better choice
for the sliding doors (something that is stable and straight). I
finished the doors the same as the cabinet(50/50 blend of Watco
natural oil and poly followed by two coats of poly after the watco
blend had fully dried) but clearly I need to changes horses. Do you have
any suggestions for
me?

I have used 1/4" ply without problems but only smaller doors (up to 18"-24"
high).

I have also used it in bigger doors with the same result as you. In fact, I
have 4 cabinet doors - about 36" tall - in an upper cabinet in our laundry
room with that problem but they are frame & panel, not sliding. I posted
about them many months ago, the general consensus was that it was the frame
warping, not the ply. I disagree, they will be remade someday.

Even in smaller doors, I have had occasional minor problems. My fix was to
glue a piece of wood across them at top & bottom. That works but you need
enough space between them. The best solution is to use thicker ply, same
caveat about space.

For a non-warping panel for your current needs, I would suggest Masonite
(hardboard). It is butt-ugly but can be painted nicely. Or covered with
wallpaper. Or even veneered (both sides). In either case, should you go that
route, search out hardboard that has NOT been made on a screen; that results
in one smooth side, one rough. You would want both to be smooth (or at
least I would).

I think I now understand why all the reviewers of the Rockler bypass
door sliders were able to use 1/4" plywood. Their doors were not as big
as mine.

I do not have enough space between the doors to put in a stiffener. I am
going to call my plywood supplier to see if they have any better ideas.
Otherwise I may go with painted hardboard.

Thanks for helping me understand why I got the warping.

Dick

Possibly you could put the stiffener on the front side of the front
panel and on the back side of the back panel. But whether you can
remove the warp is uncertain.

--
 GW Ross 

 People who live in stone houses 
 shouldn't throw glasses. 

On 3/14/2015 6:05 PM, Max wrote:
On 3/14/2015 3:57 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 3/14/2015 2:18 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
I did not finish both sides but even before I finished it,

Always finish both sides of plywood panels.

While the fact that you didn't may not be the entire reason the 1/4" ply
warped so badly, it is most certainly a contributing factor not in you
favor.

What grade was the ply?

Lower grades of 1/4" plywood are notorious for turning into potato
chips, particularly if they are subjected to sunlight and wet conditions
on only one side (even on the ride home to the shop, but a plywood grade
like A-1 usually gives you a better chance.

There are some ways to solve the problem if you have enough clearance.

Might want to consider salvaging your investment by making 3/4" frame
and panel doors, with the top and bottom door rails having a 1/4" tongue
that fits in the groove.

You should be able to cut a tongue quickly and easily with a table saw,
and since it it won't be seen, it doesn't have to be pretty.

You could even make frame and panel doors 1/2" shorter in height, then
glue nail a 1/4" strip on the rails in the appropriate location as a
tongue.

Be creative ...


Yeppers. I put the strip in the center but OP could put it on the edges.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/100373064@N03/

My depth space is very limited. I don't have room for two 3/4" doors

"Dick Snyder" wrote:

The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice.
-----------------------------------------
As others have suggested with 1/4" plywood, you can't get
there from here in this application.

IMHO, you have the following choices:

1/4" hardboard, two sides good and painted.

1/4" etched safety glass.

1/4" smoked acrylic sheet complete with finger holes.

Of those 3, my choice would be the acrylic.

Lighter in weight than glass, safety is not an issue.

Only you can determine if painted hardboard will provide
the necessary esthetics.

Lew

On 3/14/2015 7:59 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Dick Snyder" wrote:

The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice.
-----------------------------------------
As others have suggested with 1/4" plywood, you can't get
there from here in this application.

IMHO, you have the following choices:

1/4" hardboard, two sides good and painted.

1/4" etched safety glass.

1/4" smoked acrylic sheet complete with finger holes.

Of those 3, my choice would be the acrylic.

Lighter in weight than glass, safety is not an issue.

Only you can determine if painted hardboard will provide
the necessary esthetics.

Lew


I like the smoked acrylic sheet idea the best. I will contact my local
glass place on Monday. Thanks.

Dick

On 3/14/2015 2:37 PM, John McCoy wrote:
Dick Snyder wrote in
:

I am building a cabinet with sliding doors (due to space constraints).
It is 36" high, 74" long and made from cherry plywood. I got 1/4"
cherry for the sliding doors that are to run in a sliding door track I
purchased from Rockler.

The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice. It started
warping and it very difficult to fit in the sliding door track. The
rest of the project is complete but I need to find a better choice for
the sliding doors (something that is stable and straight). I finished
the doors the same as the cabinet(50/50 blend of Watco natural oil and
poly followed by two coats of poly after the watco blend had fully
dried) but clearly I need to changes horses. Do you have any
suggestions for me?

If I understand you correctly, you're running the 1/4 ply
directly in the track?

I don't think that will work - plywood is not rigid enough
for that sort of purpose. Usually when the door runs
directly in the track, it's tempered glass, which is very
rigid.

For a wooden door, I think you're going to have to build
a frame around the panel with 3/4 solid lumber, and use
sliding door guides, like these:

http://www.rockler.com/european-styl...-door-hardware

John


Not really, my parents had a setup like that, and it has lasted for 50
some odd years. I still have it in my shop.
I took the doors off when I put it back, but just to check, I put them
back in today. Still good.

They can last.

Not sure why you needed to buy the track, these were just grooves in the
bottom and top of the carcass.

I don't know a way to fix it.

--
Jeff

On 3/14/2015 3:15 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
On 3/14/2015 2:37 PM, John McCoy wrote:
Dick Snyder wrote in
:

I am building a cabinet with sliding doors (due to space constraints).
It is 36" high, 74" long and made from cherry plywood. I got 1/4"
cherry for the sliding doors that are to run in a sliding door track I
purchased from Rockler.

The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice. It started
warping and it very difficult to fit in the sliding door track. The
rest of the project is complete but I need to find a better choice for
the sliding doors (something that is stable and straight). I finished
the doors the same as the cabinet(50/50 blend of Watco natural oil and
poly followed by two coats of poly after the watco blend had fully
dried) but clearly I need to changes horses. Do you have any
suggestions for me?

If I understand you correctly, you're running the 1/4 ply
directly in the track?

I don't think that will work - plywood is not rigid enough
for that sort of purpose. Usually when the door runs
directly in the track, it's tempered glass, which is very
rigid.

For a wooden door, I think you're going to have to build
a frame around the panel with 3/4 solid lumber, and use
sliding door guides, like these:

http://www.rockler.com/european-styl...-door-hardware

John

When I read the reviews of the track on the Rockler website, everyone
had used 1/4" plywood directly in the track. The picture on the Rockler
website showed bypass glass doors. I think I will call Rockler on Monday
to see what they have to say. I got my plywood from a very high turnover
dealer here in eastern Mass so I assume I just made a bad choice of
wood rather than buying crappy wood. I think I will call them too to see
what they have to say. I don't have enough room in the bypass to use
3/4" plywood. I am kind of stuck with my design.

I hope you held your plywood flat or straight up and down and clamped
when you got it.

The changes in humidity from shipping and such require something to
stabilize it.

I have had similar problems with ply, I have been clamping all ply to a
rack vertically oriented so it won't twist ever since.

Thin ply is a tough one. I am sure the oil did not help. I am sure it is
still wet inside.



--
Jeff

On 3/14/2015 3:18 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
On 3/14/2015 2:43 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 14:18:37 -0400, Dick Snyder
wrote:

I am building a cabinet with sliding doors (due to space constraints).
It is 36" high, 74" long and made from cherry plywood. I got 1/4" cherry
for the sliding doors that are to run in a sliding door track I
purchased from Rockler.

The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice. It started
warping and it very difficult to fit in the sliding door track. The rest
of the project is complete but I need to find a better choice for the
sliding doors (something that is stable and straight). I finished the
doors the same as the cabinet(50/50 blend of Watco natural oil and poly
followed by two coats of poly after the watco blend had fully dried)
but clearly I need to changes horses. Do you have any suggestions for
me?

TIA.

Dick Snyder

Did you finish both sides of the ply? If not, it WILL warp. Also, is
there a way to "frame" the plywood with something like a metal channel
(finished in oiled broze or something that doesn't stick out too much
from the cherry?)

I did not finish both sides but even before I finished it, the wood was
Your kidding right?
You must always finish both sides of whatever you work on.
you need it to get the same humidity all around. Sealing one side allows
moisture to directly come in to the untreated side and thats all that
needed.
You must seal the edges too.


warping. I had (foolishly) hoped that the upper and lower track would
straighten things out. I just replied to another poster than I will call
Rockler on Monday to see what they have to say as well as my (excellent)
plywood supplier.


--
Jeff

On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 18:12:59 -0400, Dick Snyder
wrote:

On 3/14/2015 5:57 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 3/14/2015 2:18 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
I did not finish both sides but even before I finished it,

Always finish both sides of plywood panels.

While the fact that you didn't may not be the entire reason the 1/4" ply
warped so badly, it is most certainly a contributing factor not in you
favor.

What grade was the ply?

Lower grades of 1/4" plywood are notorious for turning into potato
chips, particularly if they are subjected to sunlight and wet conditions
on only one side (even on the ride home to the shop, but a plywood grade
like A-1 usually gives you a better chance.

There are some ways to solve the problem if you have enough clearance.

Might want to consider salvaging your investment by making 3/4" frame
and panel doors, with the top and bottom door rails having a 1/4" tongue
that fits in the groove.

You should be able to cut a tongue quickly and easily with a table saw,
and since it it won't be seen, it doesn't have to be pretty.

You could even make frame and panel doors 1/2" shorter in height, then
glue nail a 1/4" strip on the rails in the appropriate location as a
tongue.

Be creative ...

There are two doors, each 30" high and 37" wide. They need to be able to
pass by each other so that half of the shelves are open at a time. The
shelves will store cook books etc. I don't see yet how frame and panel
doors would be able to pass by each other in the space (depth) that I
have. My current thinking is to find some other 1/4" thick material that
is stiff and would allow me to keep my basic design.
Tempered glass would be my suggestion for 30X37" doors that cannot be
over 1/4" thick - or 6061T6 aluminum.

On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 22:18:43 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
wrote:

Dick Snyder wrote in
:

I do not have enough space between the doors to put in a stiffener. I
am going to call my plywood supplier to see if they have any better
ideas. Otherwise I may go with painted hardboard.

This is a bit of a long shot, but if you have a source of
1/16" veneers you could try making up your own plywood.
Put the two inner layers at 45 degrees to the outer layer
(and 90 degrees to each other, of course), and use epoxy
(West System or System Three or similar) to glue it all
together. You'll want to glue it up on something flat,
and have another something flat to put on top together
with a bunch of weights while the glue dries (and plastic
wrap between so you don't glue your panel to it). The
result will be a lot stiffer than any commercial panel.

Otherwise I'd be tempted to go with Gordon's suggestion
of frosted glass.

John
Another thought - try to get "aircraft grade" plywood - 45degree
instead of 90, and all veneers "A" grade.

Did you varnish both sides at the same time ? If you left
the inside bare the moisture can hit the bare side and swell.

Martin

On 3/14/2015 2:15 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
On 3/14/2015 2:37 PM, John McCoy wrote:
Dick Snyder wrote in
:

I am building a cabinet with sliding doors (due to space constraints).
It is 36" high, 74" long and made from cherry plywood. I got 1/4"
cherry for the sliding doors that are to run in a sliding door track I
purchased from Rockler.

The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice. It started
warping and it very difficult to fit in the sliding door track. The
rest of the project is complete but I need to find a better choice for
the sliding doors (something that is stable and straight). I finished
the doors the same as the cabinet(50/50 blend of Watco natural oil and
poly followed by two coats of poly after the watco blend had fully
dried) but clearly I need to changes horses. Do you have any
suggestions for me?

If I understand you correctly, you're running the 1/4 ply
directly in the track?

I don't think that will work - plywood is not rigid enough
for that sort of purpose. Usually when the door runs
directly in the track, it's tempered glass, which is very
rigid.

For a wooden door, I think you're going to have to build
a frame around the panel with 3/4 solid lumber, and use
sliding door guides, like these:

http://www.rockler.com/european-styl...-door-hardware

John

When I read the reviews of the track on the Rockler website, everyone
had used 1/4" plywood directly in the track. The picture on the Rockler
website showed bypass glass doors. I think I will call Rockler on Monday
to see what they have to say. I got my plywood from a very high turnover
dealer here in eastern Mass so I assume I just made a bad choice of
wood rather than buying crappy wood. I think I will call them too to see
what they have to say. I don't have enough room in the bypass to use
3/4" plywood. I am kind of stuck with my design.

Kinda like welding sheet stock to a base. Weld one side and the
standing sheet bends in the weld. Welding the other side won't fix it.

One tack welds back and forth on both sides - once tacked in then weld.

The idea is for wood also - coating one side might at first relax that
side but as the coating is dried it shrinks. Putting it on both sides
causes it to shrink in back to back motions that counteracts the forces.

Martin

On 3/14/2015 2:18 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
On 3/14/2015 2:43 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 14:18:37 -0400, Dick Snyder
wrote:

I am building a cabinet with sliding doors (due to space constraints).
It is 36" high, 74" long and made from cherry plywood. I got 1/4" cherry
for the sliding doors that are to run in a sliding door track I
purchased from Rockler.

The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice. It started
warping and it very difficult to fit in the sliding door track. The rest
of the project is complete but I need to find a better choice for the
sliding doors (something that is stable and straight). I finished the
doors the same as the cabinet(50/50 blend of Watco natural oil and poly
followed by two coats of poly after the watco blend had fully dried)
but clearly I need to changes horses. Do you have any suggestions for
me?

TIA.

Dick Snyder

Did you finish both sides of the ply? If not, it WILL warp. Also, is
there a way to "frame" the plywood with something like a metal channel
(finished in oiled broze or something that doesn't stick out too much
from the cherry?)

I did not finish both sides but even before I finished it, the wood was
warping. I had (foolishly) hoped that the upper and lower track would
straighten things out. I just replied to another poster than I will call
Rockler on Monday to see what they have to say as well as my (excellent)
plywood supplier.

John McCoy wrote:
Dick Snyder wrote in
:

I do not have enough space between the doors to put in a stiffener. I
am going to call my plywood supplier to see if they have any better
ideas. Otherwise I may go with painted hardboard.

This is a bit of a long shot, but if you have a source of
1/16" veneers you could try making up your own plywood.
Put the two inner layers at 45 degrees to the outer layer
(and 90 degrees to each other, of course), and use epoxy
(West System or System Three or similar) to glue it all
together. You'll want to glue it up on something flat,
and have another something flat to put on top together
with a bunch of weights while the glue dries (and plastic
wrap between so you don't glue your panel to it). The
result will be a lot stiffer than any commercial panel.

Otherwise I'd be tempted to go with Gordon's suggestion
of frosted glass.

John


I'm thinking a piece of 1/4" x 30" x 37" glass might be a tad heavy to slide
around. If I were OP and was going to use glass, would use four pieces,
rather than two. He could still access the same amount of space.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

"dadiOH" wrote in :

I'm thinking a piece of 1/4" x 30" x 37" glass might be a tad heavy to
slide around. If I were OP and was going to use glass, would use
four pieces, rather than two. He could still access the same amount
of space.

A very good point. Four at 30" x 18.5" would be much more
manageable, both in use and in installation.

John

On 3/14/2015 10:11 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/14/2015 2:37 PM, John McCoy wrote:
Dick Snyder wrote in
:

I am building a cabinet with sliding doors (due to space constraints).
It is 36" high, 74" long and made from cherry plywood. I got 1/4"
cherry for the sliding doors that are to run in a sliding door track I
purchased from Rockler.

The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice. It started
warping and it very difficult to fit in the sliding door track. The
rest of the project is complete but I need to find a better choice for
the sliding doors (something that is stable and straight). I finished
the doors the same as the cabinet(50/50 blend of Watco natural oil and
poly followed by two coats of poly after the watco blend had fully
dried) but clearly I need to changes horses. Do you have any
suggestions for me?

If I understand you correctly, you're running the 1/4 ply
directly in the track?

I don't think that will work - plywood is not rigid enough
for that sort of purpose. Usually when the door runs
directly in the track, it's tempered glass, which is very
rigid.

For a wooden door, I think you're going to have to build
a frame around the panel with 3/4 solid lumber, and use
sliding door guides, like these:

http://www.rockler.com/european-styl...-door-hardware

John


Not really, my parents had a setup like that, and it has lasted for 50
some odd years. I still have it in my shop.
I took the doors off when I put it back, but just to check, I put them
back in today. Still good.

They can last.

Not sure why you needed to buy the track, these were just grooves in the
bottom and top of the carcass.

I don't know a way to fix it.

The general consensus among members of the rec who commented is that the
plywood was too big to remain stable. Each sliding panel is 30" high
and 34" long. Even before I put a finish on it it was curved. I had
hoped (incorrectly) that the track would take out the curves which were
in one direction only - the longest one). I bought it at the end of
December and kept it in my very dry warm basement where my shop is.

Anyway, I am moving on to try 1/4" smoked acrylic sheets which should be
very stable.

On 3/15/2015 7:29 AM, dadiOH wrote:
John McCoy wrote:
Dick Snyder wrote in
:

I do not have enough space between the doors to put in a stiffener. I
am going to call my plywood supplier to see if they have any better
ideas. Otherwise I may go with painted hardboard.

This is a bit of a long shot, but if you have a source of
1/16" veneers you could try making up your own plywood.
Put the two inner layers at 45 degrees to the outer layer
(and 90 degrees to each other, of course), and use epoxy
(West System or System Three or similar) to glue it all
together. You'll want to glue it up on something flat,
and have another something flat to put on top together
with a bunch of weights while the glue dries (and plastic
wrap between so you don't glue your panel to it). The
result will be a lot stiffer than any commercial panel.

Otherwise I'd be tempted to go with Gordon's suggestion
of frosted glass.

John


I'm thinking a piece of 1/4" x 30" x 37" glass might be a tad heavy to slide
around. If I were OP and was going to use glass, would use four pieces,
rather than two. He could still access the same amount of space.


I am going to try 1/4" smoked acrylic sheet. Should be stable and a lot
lighter than glass.

On 03/14/2015 6:59 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Dick Snyder" wrote:

The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice.
-----------------------------------------
As others have suggested with 1/4" plywood, you can't get
there from here in this application.

IMHO, you have the following choices:

1/4" hardboard, two sides good and painted.

....

Veneer it is the other choice to retain the original cherry look.

--

Dick Snyder wrote in
:

My depth space is very limited. I don't have room for two 3/4" doors


What if the spline(?) for the track is offset for each door? You might
have to trim any interior shelves by a little.

How much _can_ you sacrifice in shelf depth? It wouldn't take but a
1/2" thick frame or maybe even 3/8" with a rabbet to add sufficient
stiffness to the panels. Doesn't have to be a centered groove, a rear
flush rabbet'll do the same trick...

--

On 3/15/2015 4:18 PM, dpb wrote:
Dick Snyder wrote in
:

My depth space is very limited. I don't have room for two 3/4" doors


What if the spline(?) for the track is offset for each door? You might
have to trim any interior shelves by a little.

How much _can_ you sacrifice in shelf depth? It wouldn't take but a
1/2" thick frame or maybe even 3/8" with a rabbet to add sufficient
stiffness to the panels. Doesn't have to be a centered groove, a rear
flush rabbet'll do the same trick...

--
The panels/doors have to pass by each other

On 3/15/2015 12:56 PM, dpb wrote:
On 03/14/2015 6:59 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Dick Snyder" wrote:

The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice.
-----------------------------------------
As others have suggested with 1/4" plywood, you can't get
there from here in this application.

IMHO, you have the following choices:

1/4" hardboard, two sides good and painted.

...

Veneer it is the other choice to retain the original cherry look.

--

I may do the hardboard as a second choice. First choice right now is
smoked acrylic glass. I will have to give up on the cherry doors but my
daughter (the recipient) is OK with that.

On 03/15/2015 4:47 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
On 3/15/2015 4:18 PM, dpb wrote:
Dick Snyder wrote in
:

My depth space is very limited. I don't have room for two 3/4" doors


What if the spline(?) for the track is offset for each door? You might
have to trim any interior shelves by a little.

How much _can_ you sacrifice in shelf depth? It wouldn't take but a
1/2" thick frame or maybe even 3/8" with a rabbet to add sufficient
stiffness to the panels. Doesn't have to be a centered groove, a rear
flush rabbet'll do the same trick...

The panels/doors have to pass by each other

So, they still can/could, just need the width of the thickness of the
panels which could be as little as 3/4" total plus a smidge for clearance...

--

On 03/15/2015 4:51 PM, dpb wrote:
On 03/15/2015 4:47 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
On 3/15/2015 4:18 PM, dpb wrote:
Dick Snyder wrote in
:

My depth space is very limited. I don't have room for two 3/4" doors


What if the spline(?) for the track is offset for each door? You might
have to trim any interior shelves by a little.

How much _can_ you sacrifice in shelf depth? It wouldn't take but a
1/2" thick frame or maybe even 3/8" with a rabbet to add sufficient
stiffness to the panels. Doesn't have to be a centered groove, a rear
flush rabbet'll do the same trick...

The panels/doors have to pass by each other

So, they still can/could, just need the width of the thickness of the
panels which could be as little as 3/4" total plus a smidge for
clearance...

And, in fact, they can still go in the 1/4" grooves simply rabbet the
bottom/top edges to fit and turn the to panel overhangs to front/rear,
respectively on each.

--

On 03/15/2015 4:51 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
....

I may do the hardboard as a second choice. First choice right now is
smoked acrylic glass. I will have to give up on the cherry doors but my
daughter (the recipient) is OK with that.

See my other note above; you don't _have_ to give it I think...

--

On Sun, 15 Mar 2015 17:47:10 -0400, Dick Snyder
wrote:

On 3/15/2015 4:18 PM, dpb wrote:
Dick Snyder wrote in
:

My depth space is very limited. I don't have room for two 3/4" doors


What if the spline(?) for the track is offset for each door? You might
have to trim any interior shelves by a little.

How much _can_ you sacrifice in shelf depth? It wouldn't take but a
1/2" thick frame or maybe even 3/8" with a rabbet to add sufficient
stiffness to the panels. Doesn't have to be a centered groove, a rear
flush rabbet'll do the same trick...

--
The panels/doors have to pass by each other

The idea is that one panel is offset to the outside of the track and
the other to the inside. They will still pass by each other, just as
the bare panels do but the "inner" door will cut into the interior
space a bit.

On 03/14/2015 11:18 AM, Dick Snyder wrote:
I am building a cabinet with sliding doors (due to space constraints).
It is 36" high, 74" long and made from cherry plywood. I got 1/4" cherry
for the sliding doors that are to run in a sliding door track I
purchased from Rockler.

The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice. It started
warping and it very difficult to fit in the sliding door track. The rest
of the project is complete but I need to find a better choice for the
sliding doors (something that is stable and straight). I finished the
doors the same as the cabinet(50/50 blend of Watco natural oil and poly
followed by two coats of poly after the watco blend had fully dried) but
clearly I need to changes horses. Do you have any suggestions for me?

TIA.

Dick Snyder


How about this stuff:

https://www.menards.com/main/building-materials/panel-products/specialty-panels/melamine/dakota-1-4-x-49-x-97-melamine-panel/p-1954471-c-13335.htm


--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill

On 03/15/2015 7:06 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 15 Mar 2015 17:47:10 -0400, Dick
wrote:

On 3/15/2015 4:18 PM, dpb wrote:
Dick wrote in
:

My depth space is very limited. I don't have room for two 3/4" doors


What if the spline(?) for the track is offset for each door? You might
have to trim any interior shelves by a little.

How much _can_ you sacrifice in shelf depth? It wouldn't take but a
1/2" thick frame or maybe even 3/8" with a rabbet to add sufficient
stiffness to the panels. Doesn't have to be a centered groove, a rear
flush rabbet'll do the same trick...

--
The panels/doors have to pass by each other

The idea is that one panel is offset to the outside of the track and
the other to the inside. They will still pass by each other, just as
the bare panels do but the "inner" door will cut into the interior
space a bit.

Precisely, and better worded besides...

--

On 3/14/2015 5:05 PM, Max wrote:


Yeppers. I put the strip in the center but OP could put it on the edges.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/100373064@N03/

Very nicely done!

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 3/16/2015 12:02 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 3/14/2015 5:05 PM, Max wrote:


Yeppers. I put the strip in the center but OP could put it on the edges.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/100373064@N03/

Very nicely done!


Thank You.