My CD Shelf project is drawing to a close. All that's left is a couple
more bouts of finishing, and only on the face frame and the outside
faces of the sides. It should be ready for use next weekend. Here it is:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...57637538534446

I've begun to think about what I might do next. The bookcases I built
two projects ago now hold virtually all of the books in the house,
excepting the cookbooks, which we'd like to keep in the kitchen. Here's
my completely half-assed idea:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/11647719115/

Pretend I've drawn it with dadoes and rabbets, and pretend that the
"mezzanine" shelves follow the curve of the top and bottom. Further
pretend that this design bears any resemblance to what I'll really build.

What I'm curious about is how to deal with the plywood edges if I decide
to build a curved unit. We have a lot of cookbooks, some small and
utilitarian, others large and full of pictures. I figure the curve will
help accommodate both deep and shallow books, and hopefully look nice in
the process.

I used iron-on edge banding for the CD shelves, which worked out pretty
well. But if I wonder if there's some solid wood alternative. Keep in
mind that milling my own strips is not a possibility. I think I've seen
rectangular profile molding and I'm sure I could just look up what's
available But I have gotten some ideas from this group in the past;
ideas I never would have thought of. So have at it. Things simple enough
to match my modest skills preferred.

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On 12/30/2013 10:43 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:


I used iron-on edge banding for the CD shelves, which worked out pretty
well. But if I wonder if there's some solid wood alternative. Keep in
mind that milling my own strips is not a possibility. I think I've seen
rectangular profile molding and I'm sure I could just look up what's
available But I have gotten some ideas from this group in the past;
ideas I never would have thought of. So have at it. Things simple enough
to match my modest skills preferred.

You say milling is not a possibility. What tools do you have available?
Router? Router table?

In pine, there is some molding available at the big box stores, but not
so easy to find other woods.

What I would do is run a board through the router table putting on the
profile of my choice. Then I'd cut it off on the table saw thin enough
to bend around the shelf edge. Repeat as necessary to get enough
material for the job.

On 12/30/2013 11:38 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 12/30/2013 10:43 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:


I used iron-on edge banding for the CD shelves, which worked out pretty
well. But if I wonder if there's some solid wood alternative. Keep in
mind that milling my own strips is not a possibility. I think I've seen
rectangular profile molding and I'm sure I could just look up what's
available But I have gotten some ideas from this group in the past;
ideas I never would have thought of. So have at it. Things simple enough
to match my modest skills preferred.

You say milling is not a possibility. What tools do you have available?
Router? Router table?

In pine, there is some molding available at the big box stores, but not
so easy to find other woods.

What I would do is run a board through the router table putting on the
profile of my choice. Then I'd cut it off on the table saw thin enough
to bend around the shelf edge. Repeat as necessary to get enough
material for the job.

Router? Check. Router table? Ditto. But no table saw.

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On 12/30/2013 9:43 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
iron-on edge banding for the CD shelves, which worked out pretty
well. But if I wonder if there's some solid wood alternative. Keep in
mind that milling my own strips is not a possibility. I think I've seen
rectangular profile molding and I'm sure I could just look up what's
available But I have gotten some ideas from this group in the past;
ideas I never would have thought of. So have at it. Things simple enough
to match my modest skills preferred.

DAGS "flexible trim"

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
google.com/+KarlCaillouet
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 12/30/2013 11:11 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

Router? Check. Router table? Ditto. But no table saw.

A few years ago I built a jig, based on an old magazine article, for a
router/router table to do this:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...t=d irectlink

The perfect match of the mating parts (table top and trim) comes from
using the jig to cut the curve in both parts.

If you're interested I can try to find my plans/send you the directions
necessary to do the same via email, or a photo of the jig, which I may
still have (if I can find it).

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
google.com/+KarlCaillouet
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 12/30/2013 12:33 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 12/30/2013 11:11 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

Router? Check. Router table? Ditto. But no table saw.

A few years ago I built a jig, based on an old magazine article, for a
router/router table to do this:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...t=d irectlink


The perfect match of the mating parts (table top and trim) comes from
using the jig to cut the curve in both parts.

If you're interested I can try to find my plans/send you the directions
necessary to do the same via email, or a photo of the jig, which I may
still have (if I can find it).

I don't know if I would actually take that route - cutting the curved
pieces from 1x4 stock - but I'm intrigued. I've been puzzling it out in
my head and I haven't yet come up with the geometry necessary to make
convex and concave cuts from the same template. Obviously it's not as
simple as a pattern bit; the non-zero diameter of the bit would make the
mating curves of slightly different radii.

So don't dig too hard on my account, but I am interested to see how it
was done.

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Greg Guarino wrote:

Router? Check. Router table? Ditto. But no table saw.


What??? No table saw? How did you get into this group with no table saw
Greg? That's supposed to be one of the gatekeepers. Gotta talk with the
fat lady that is supposed to monitor this stuff.

Ok - so you snuck into the secret conclave and now you're here. Can't
really kick you out now. So - how about building yourself a saw sled for
your skill saw? Didn't I see one of those on your web site? Pick a good
blade and run your routed stock through your saw guide. You can get a
really good cut/finish this way. I might make my routed stock a few inches
long to allow for any oops at the end of the cut, but it should work.

Oh yeah - the secret conclave committee is interested to know if your sense
of conscience allows you to consider paying back dues for having snuck in...

--

-Mike-

"Greg Guarino" wrote in message

My CD Shelf project is drawing to a close. All that's
left is a couple more bouts of finishing, and only on the face frame and
the outside faces of the sides. It should be ready for use next
weekend. Here it is:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...57637538534446

I've begun to think about what I might do next. The
bookcases I built two projects ago now hold virtually all of the books in
the house, excepting the cookbooks, which we'd like to keep in the
kitchen. Here's my completely half-assed idea:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/11647719115/

Pretend I've drawn it with dadoes and rabbets, and
pretend that the "mezzanine" shelves follow the curve of
the top and bottom. Further pretend that this design bears any resemblance
to what
I'll really build.
What I'm curious about is how to deal with the plywood
edges if I decide to build a curved unit. We have a lot of cookbooks, some
small and utilitarian, others large and full of pictures. I figure
the curve will help accommodate both deep and shallow books, and
hopefully look nice in the process.

I used iron-on edge banding for the CD shelves, which
worked out pretty well. But if I wonder if there's some solid wood
alternative. Keep in mind that milling my own strips is not a possibility.
I
think I've seen rectangular profile molding and I'm sure I could just
look up what's available But I have gotten some ideas from this group in
the past; ideas I never would have thought of. So have at it.
Things simple enough to match my modest skills preferred.

You said you have a router & router table but no table saw. How do you cut
the ply pieces? How did you cut the stuff for the other book case?

Regardless of how you did it (cut) do it the same way for this project. You
could...

1. Cut thin pieces and glue/iron on

2. Cut thicker pieces and bend them on, no need to cut a curve as long as
they are 3/4" thick or so. To attach them, you could...
(a) use biscuits & glue
(b) put solid wood vertical at the front of each side and screw/glue
to that, glue to the ply too.

Naturally, you could run a profile on one or both edges.

3. Now, if you want something wide you would either have to...
(a) cut a curve to match the ply
- OR -
(b) make the ply uncurved and curve the outside edge of the solid
wood.

It's not all that hard to cut a curve with a router, just need to make a
template. If you want the innner and outer curves to match so the trim is
the same width over the entire length, pay attention to Swingman.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 12/30/2013 2:06 PM, dadiOH wrote:
You said you have a router & router table but no table saw. How do you cut
the ply pieces? How did you cut the stuff for the other book case?

Circular saw with either this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...57637538534446

this
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...57637538534446

or this
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...57637538534446

.... depending on the length of the piece to be cut.

I also use a miter saw for narrow stuff.

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On 12/30/2013 12:11 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 12/30/2013 11:38 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 12/30/2013 10:43 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:


I used iron-on edge banding for the CD shelves, which worked out pretty
well. But if I wonder if there's some solid wood alternative. Keep in
mind that milling my own strips is not a possibility. I think I've seen
rectangular profile molding and I'm sure I could just look up what's
available But I have gotten some ideas from this group in the past;
ideas I never would have thought of. So have at it. Things simple enough
to match my modest skills preferred.

You say milling is not a possibility. What tools do you have available?
Router? Router table?

In pine, there is some molding available at the big box stores, but not
so easy to find other woods.


Router? Check. Router table? Ditto. But no table saw.


There are special edging bits for routers that can be used to enhance
glue-up of stock trim ...i.e...

https://www.routerbits.com/plywood-edge-banding/whiteside-edge-banding-router-bit-set/

The cutters ensure sufficient gluing surface for a very strong bond
between case and edging.

After edging is glued on, then molding or profile bits may be utilized
with the same router to clean up any proud surfaces and apply final
desired shape ...roundover, roman ogee etc.

Not easy to work with thin sticks of 3/4" stock without using some sort
of backing board (i.e. 3/4" x 1"x4" scrap stock) or support to provide
added stiffness and bulk while routing the glue edge. I have used
double-sided carpet tape to temporarily hold things together while
cutting, and it is entirely possible to also tape the edge stock either
edge-to-edge or on top of backing board. However, I also prefer routing
from thicker stock and subsequently cut strips to final dimension with a
table saw.

Once the stock edging is mounted to the case, it is usually very easy to
profile the exposed edge surface with a molding bit of choice.

Hope my explanation makes some sense, I'm at an age now where most of
the time I'm the only one that understands what I write...

good luck,

--

Digger
Bob O'Dell

On 12/30/2013 2:06 PM, dadiOH wrote:
(b) make the ply uncurved and curve the outside edge of the solid
wood.

I thought of that too. I'm trying to decide if I'd like the look.

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On 12/30/2013 2:01 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Greg Guarino wrote:

Router? Check. Router table? Ditto. But no table saw.


What??? No table saw? How did you get into this group with no table saw
Greg? That's supposed to be one of the gatekeepers. Gotta talk with the
fat lady that is supposed to monitor this stuff.

She was singing as I walked by.

Ok - so you snuck into the secret conclave and now you're here. Can't
really kick you out now. So - how about building yourself a saw sled for
your skill saw? Didn't I see one of those on your web site?

You did. My first attempt. It's pretty short. I made it to span the gap
between the miter saw capacity and the 52" saw guide I've got.

Pick a good
blade and run your routed stock through your saw guide. You can get a
really good cut/finish this way. I might make my routed stock a few inches
long to allow for any oops at the end of the cut, but it should work.

I hadn't thought of that.


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On 12/30/13, 1:33 PM, Digger wrote:
There are special edging bits for routers that can be used to enhance
glue-up of stock trim ...i.e...

https://www.routerbits.com/plywood-edge-banding/whiteside-edge-banding-router-bit-set/

The cutters ensure sufficient gluing surface for a very strong bond
between case and edging.


The inherent flaw in those bits is that it is way too easy for the
pointed edge of the hardwood to split open the plywood when clamping.

If one chooses to use an edge banding router bit, it's much better to
use a bit that has a flat section, so it can't wedge open the plywood.

After trying router bits for banding, I came to the conclusion that
their best purpose is to provide income to the people who manufacture
and sell them. :-)

A simple rabbeted banding that is thicker than the plywood is as strong
or stronger than these special profiles and much easier to do. Plus it
give the added advantage of making the front profile thicker, which
looks better in most applications.
http://mikedrums.com/shelf_edge_top.jpg
http://mikedrums.com/shelf_edge_bot.jpg


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 12/30/2013 9:43 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
My CD Shelf project is drawing to a close. All that's left is a couple
more bouts of finishing, and only on the face frame and the outside
faces of the sides. It should be ready for use next weekend. Here it is:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...57637538534446

I've begun to think about what I might do next. The bookcases I built
two projects ago now hold virtually all of the books in the house,
excepting the cookbooks, which we'd like to keep in the kitchen. Here's
my completely half-assed idea:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/11647719115/

Pretend I've drawn it with dadoes and rabbets, and pretend that the
"mezzanine" shelves follow the curve of the top and bottom. Further
pretend that this design bears any resemblance to what I'll really build.

What I'm curious about is how to deal with the plywood edges if I decide
to build a curved unit. We have a lot of cookbooks, some small and
utilitarian, others large and full of pictures. I figure the curve will
help accommodate both deep and shallow books, and hopefully look nice in
the process.

I used iron-on edge banding for the CD shelves, which worked out pretty
well. But if I wonder if there's some solid wood alternative. Keep in
mind that milling my own strips is not a possibility. I think I've seen
rectangular profile molding and I'm sure I could just look up what's
available But I have gotten some ideas from this group in the past;
ideas I never would have thought of. So have at it. Things simple enough
to match my modest skills preferred.

---
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protection is active.
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If someone else has said this, I apologize. You can use MDO - medium
densidty overlay - same thing as MDF with various hardwood exterior
veneer finishes. This would allow you cut, rout, and finish. This
assumes you are bent on a wood finish. Straight MDF for a stellar paint
finish.

--


___________________________________

Keep the whole world singing . . .
Dan G
remove the seven

On 12/30/2013 5:24 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 12/30/13, 1:33 PM, Digger wrote:
There are special edging bits for routers that can be used to enhance
glue-up of stock trim ...i.e...

https://www.routerbits.com/plywood-edge-banding/whiteside-edge-banding-router-bit-set/

The cutters ensure sufficient gluing surface for a very strong bond
between case and edging.


The inherent flaw in those bits is that it is way too easy for the
pointed edge of the hardwood to split open the plywood when clamping.

If one chooses to use an edge banding router bit, it's much better to
use a bit that has a flat section, so it can't wedge open the plywood.

After trying router bits for banding, I came to the conclusion that
their best purpose is to provide income to the people who manufacture
and sell them. :-)

A simple rabbeted banding that is thicker than the plywood is as strong
or stronger than these special profiles and much easier to do. Plus it
give the added advantage of making the front profile thicker, which
looks better in most applications.
http://mikedrums.com/shelf_edge_top.jpg
http://mikedrums.com/shelf_edge_bot.jpg


Agreed.

The point was simply that there are bits of many flavors, as in the
example indicated (i.e.), that can be used with a router to increase the
surface area for glue up and add strength to the joint. The added
advantage of course is that the trim interlocks with the casing and thus
keeps the edging centered while curing.

Your rabbited method is excellent and the normally preferred
alternative, assuming one is not looking for edging that is flush on
both faces. Simplicity + added strength is indeed the primary goal and
the rabbit also assures accurate alignment. However, in a curved
applique it may also be considerably more difficult, if not impossible,
to apply to a contoured edge. But then, in extreme situations, banding
with tongue and groove method would not work either.

Whenever possible, for fully flushed edges, I personally prefer biscuits
above all, but in many situations the edge band is entirely to thin to
support this method.

So, in essence, the method used is largely dictated by design, tools
available, and desired outcome. This only goes to show that once again,
there is indeed more than one way to skin the proverbial cat ...uh oh,
cat lovers everywhere will now hound me to death!

Speaking from my own experience though, I've never had an occasion where
casing walls blew-out or split while clamping tongue & groove, but that
is only my own experience. Most of what I build these days is fairly
limited to simple hardshell cases for instruments & audio road gear,
wherein the rabbited method would certainly not be appropriate.

Good reply Mike,

--

Digger
Bob O'Dell

On Monday, December 30, 2013 9:43:53 AM UTC-6, Greg Guarino wrote:
.... What I'm curious about is how to deal with the plywood edges if I decide to build a curved unit.

Is using ply a cost factor or expansion/contration factor? Compare the cost of using solid wood, rather than ply, for top and bottom.

Why not use solid wood for the top & bottom, then rout any profile or curved edge you want? Profile: Match what's presently existing in the kitchen's other woodwork?

Sonny

On Mon, 30 Dec 2013 10:43:53 -0500, Greg Guarino
wrote:

My CD Shelf project is drawing to a close. All that's left is a couple
more bouts of finishing, and only on the face frame and the outside
faces of the sides. It should be ready for use next weekend. Here it is:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...57637538534446

I've begun to think about what I might do next. The bookcases I built
two projects ago now hold virtually all of the books in the house,
excepting the cookbooks, which we'd like to keep in the kitchen. Here's
my completely half-assed idea:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/11647719115/

Pretend I've drawn it with dadoes and rabbets, and pretend that the
"mezzanine" shelves follow the curve of the top and bottom. Further
pretend that this design bears any resemblance to what I'll really build.

What I'm curious about is how to deal with the plywood edges if I decide
to build a curved unit. We have a lot of cookbooks, some small and
utilitarian, others large and full of pictures. I figure the curve will
help accommodate both deep and shallow books, and hopefully look nice in
the process.

I used iron-on edge banding for the CD shelves, which worked out pretty
well. But if I wonder if there's some solid wood alternative. Keep in
mind that milling my own strips is not a possibility. I think I've seen
rectangular profile molding and I'm sure I could just look up what's
available But I have gotten some ideas from this group in the past;
ideas I never would have thought of. So have at it. Things simple enough
to match my modest skills preferred.

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You could always by a veneer that was thin enough to cut with a
straight edge and razor knife.

Mike M