I just received a postcard stating my local Woodcraft is closing
soon. The "rumors” I heard earlier stated the owners were looking for
a buyer but could not find anyone to take over the franchise. They
have two stores in PA and this third location was a lot to manage.
For someone like me that has most tools I’ll ever buy it is not as
much a loss as for the newer woodworker or someone who wants to
upgrade. (But I still go there to buy the samller stuff I always
need) There are a few businesses around that have used machinery but
no where are there places to demo a lot of stuff, or give "how to"
build it courses. We’ve had three major WW retailers close here in
recent years; Skarie in Baltimore City, Cayce in Cockeysville, and
now Woodcraft. At least there are a few Festool retailers around, so
all is not lost.
Marc

On Fri, 17 May 2013 20:10:51 -0700 (PDT), marc rosen
I just received a postcard stating my local Woodcraft is closing
soon.

Any chance they will be offering reduced prices on stuff rather than
spending the money to have it all moved to another store?

I am surprised that our local WC stays in business, but it apparently
does well. You can be in rural south Texas in about 30 minutes from
San Antonio and on the weekends the store is full of folks from as far
away as a couple of hundred miles. They come up for other business
and this is the man's toy store and there isn't anything like it
farther south.

And the owner of the local franchise has made the store work. He has
a commercial sales guy that sells to school districts, cabinet shops,
etc. He also has a very active teaching schedule for different
aspects of woodworking including turning, carving and box making.

And in a really smart move, he supports a couple of different clubs
that meet there on site, so he has woodworking guys in there all the
time. Most of those guys are retired and have a nice slice of
retirement they can put towards buying the latest and greatest tools,
and they don't mind spending it.

I am friends with a guy that still works there, but personally haven't
been in a WC store in years. To me, they have had a noticeable lack
of variety of tools, and only sell certain brands of certain things.
When I was in there a few years back, I was astonished to see some of
the very same hand tools sold at Harbor Freight, but at double the
price. If I am going to buy something or questionable quality or
utility, I will buy from HF because it will be much cheaper to start
with, but their return policy is ridiculously easy.

To me, WC has gone from being a woodworker's tool store to a hobby
woodworker's boutique.

My buddy that works there told me that there have been several store
closings across the nation, and more to come. I am glad to hear from
him that the local store is doing just fine.

Robert

On Saturday, May 18, 2013 12:31:00 PM UTC-5, wrote:
To me, WC has gone from being a woodworker's tool store to a hobby woodworker's boutique.


I think of contractor's tool stores as being "woodworker's tool stores". And Woodcraft as a "hobby boutique" store. Des Moines had a Woodcraft 6-7-8 or so years ago. Can't remember how long its been gone. Started by a former worker at the local Woodsmith store. Woodsmith the magazine publisher has a nice tool store locally. The Woodcraft ran a few years before closing. Offered a few classes. But I don't think the town is big enough for two specialty woodworking stores. And the Woodsmith store always has the parent publishing company to support it if the tool sales don't measure up. We also have 1 Harbor Freight, 3-4 Menards, 3-4 Home Depot, 3-4 Lowes, plus 3-4 contractor tool stores.

Our local Woodcraft (Ohio) was up for sale by the franchise owner. He
also owns a store in Kentucky and can't handle two stores anymore. He
tried selling it but instead it has now changed into a corporate
store, the fourth in the country (so I am told). He had to sell or
pull all the mrechandise from the store before the EoM. Corporate will
not buy old merchandise back. They apparently prefer to keep only new
stock. I am glad it worked out for everybody. Some things are only
available at WC here and a number of us would miss that store.
`Casper

I just received a postcard stating my local Woodcraft is closing
soon. The "rumors” I heard earlier stated the owners were looking for
a buyer but could not find anyone to take over the franchise. They
have two stores in PA and this third location was a lot to manage.
For someone like me that has most tools I’ll ever buy it is not as
much a loss as for the newer woodworker or someone who wants to
upgrade. (But I still go there to buy the samller stuff I always
need) There are a few businesses around that have used machinery but
no where are there places to demo a lot of stuff, or give "how to"
build it courses. We’ve had three major WW retailers close here in
recent years; Skarie in Baltimore City, Cayce in Cockeysville, and
now Woodcraft. At least there are a few Festool retailers around, so
all is not lost.
Marc

Think how difficult it would be to run a store like WC. The one in
town has been open one way or another for about 30 years, and they
have had good guys and bad guys manage it.

A friend of mine wound up managing the one here in town for about 6 or
so years. He was a hobby woodworker, always ready to learn, never
argued with the professionals and always expressed his way of doing
things as his opinion. So he got along well.

However, away from the store and over a beer, he was pretty
frustrated. He loved the serious, hobby guy that wanted to learn
something new and try it out. He hated the guys that thought the
tools they were buying should come with free lessons.

He liked the pros that came into the store as they ran their shops as
a business and expected that from him, too. However, when one of his
assistants goofed up a pro's blade sharpening order, forgot to order a
proprietary part needed for a machine, or didn't get the supplies in
needed to complete a contract, he was floored every time by how badly
the contractors acted.

He liked the interface between like minded people and always tried to
encourage as much coffee drinking and idea swapping as possible. He
hated with a passion the know it all, of which the store had plenty at
all times. He did however, love it when the know it alls would
dispense their vast knowledge (I heard "you know Robert, I've been
doing this as a serious hobby for about five years, now..." ) to the
short on time professionals so we could say all the things he
couldn't.

It was a tough job to get anyone that had serious woodworking
experience to work there as their store economic model only allowed
for slightly more than an hourly wage to be paid for most guys. So
that left their talent pool to be entry level in the job market guys,
or retirees that didn't need but a little bit to make them happy. The
latter camp worked there most often to get their great employee
discount, and regularly quit after they filled their shops.

He had a lot of things to contend with, and I always thought of him as
more of a circus manager than a business manager. Most of the time he
did, too.

Not the kind of job for everyone.

I googled Woodcraft store closings, and there are apparently a lot of
these stores going under. In particular, check out this:

http://www.woodtalkonline.com/topic/...raft-closings/

Pretty good discussion there.

A couple of things they leave off when describing their debt. The
franchise cost is part paid and part financed (if you choose) and the
local franchise for the WC store cost somewhere around $500,000 many
years ago. However, the smaller the town, the smaller the cost.
But then you have to have the inventory they want with only a bit if
discretionary items, so you have to stock the store with products they
supply. No shopping or jobber pricing for the franchisees.

And the items you buy from them are yours. No returns, no credit, no
transfers. When one of the stores in Austin TX closed a few years
ago, I believe they let the local franchise buy some of their
inventory.

It's a tough business. Like a lot of folks I know, I will pay more if
I get more. So if someone is there (remember their economic model) on
site that could help me with a problem, I would pay more and consider
it a consultation fee. But that means service, service, service.
Besides, supporting a local brick and mortar store is always a good
thing.

Since I don't feel like I get my money's worth out of WC, I simply
don't go there.

Robert

On 5/18/2013 5:05 PM, Casper wrote:
Our local Woodcraft (Ohio) was up for sale by the franchise owner. He
also owns a store in Kentucky and can't handle two stores anymore. He
tried selling it but instead it has now changed into a corporate
store, the fourth in the country (so I am told). He had to sell or
pull all the mrechandise from the store before the EoM. Corporate will
not buy old merchandise back. They apparently prefer to keep only new
stock. I am glad it worked out for everybody. Some things are only
available at WC here and a number of us would miss that store.

It's not surprising that no one from the rec is running up to buy up
these stores. Doing so would be like an alcoholic buying a bar and not
having a clue about 12-step programsg.

I know if would be in my case. At least that's what my wife would say...

On Saturday, May 18, 2013 2:18:39 PM UTC-10, wrote:
Think how difficult it would be to run a store like WC. The one in

town has been open one way or another for about 30 years, and they

have had good guys and bad guys manage it.



A friend of mine wound up managing the one here in town for about 6 or

so years. He was a hobby woodworker, always ready to learn, never

argued with the professionals and always expressed his way of doing

things as his opinion. So he got along well.



However, away from the store and over a beer, he was pretty

frustrated. He loved the serious, hobby guy that wanted to learn

something new and try it out. He hated the guys that thought the

tools they were buying should come with free lessons.



He liked the pros that came into the store as they ran their shops as

a business and expected that from him, too. However, when one of his

assistants goofed up a pro's blade sharpening order, forgot to order a

proprietary part needed for a machine, or didn't get the supplies in

needed to complete a contract, he was floored every time by how badly

the contractors acted.



He liked the interface between like minded people and always tried to

encourage as much coffee drinking and idea swapping as possible. He

hated with a passion the know it all, of which the store had plenty at

all times. He did however, love it when the know it alls would

dispense their vast knowledge (I heard "you know Robert, I've been

doing this as a serious hobby for about five years, now..." ) to the

short on time professionals so we could say all the things he

couldn't.



It was a tough job to get anyone that had serious woodworking

experience to work there as their store economic model only allowed

for slightly more than an hourly wage to be paid for most guys. So

that left their talent pool to be entry level in the job market guys,

or retirees that didn't need but a little bit to make them happy. The

latter camp worked there most often to get their great employee

discount, and regularly quit after they filled their shops.



He had a lot of things to contend with, and I always thought of him as

more of a circus manager than a business manager. Most of the time he

did, too.



Not the kind of job for everyone.



I googled Woodcraft store closings, and there are apparently a lot of

these stores going under. In particular, check out this:



http://www.woodtalkonline.com/topic/...raft-closings/



Pretty good discussion there.



A couple of things they leave off when describing their debt. The

franchise cost is part paid and part financed (if you choose) and the

local franchise for the WC store cost somewhere around $500,000 many

years ago. However, the smaller the town, the smaller the cost.

But then you have to have the inventory they want with only a bit if

discretionary items, so you have to stock the store with products they

supply. No shopping or jobber pricing for the franchisees.



And the items you buy from them are yours. No returns, no credit, no

transfers. When one of the stores in Austin TX closed a few years

ago, I believe they let the local franchise buy some of their

inventory.



It's a tough business. Like a lot of folks I know, I will pay more if

I get more. So if someone is there (remember their economic model) on

site that could help me with a problem, I would pay more and consider

it a consultation fee. But that means service, service, service.

Besides, supporting a local brick and mortar store is always a good

thing.



Since I don't feel like I get my money's worth out of WC, I simply

don't go there.



Robert

Robert,
I understand your friend's frustrations. I worked part-time at a Woodcraft store and hated a few things. Customers coming in to look at a product and ask questions then buying it elsewhere. And customers buying a used tool and bringing it in to us to teach them how to use it.
Gene

GeneT wrote:
On Saturday, May 18, 2013 2:18:39 PM UTC-10, wrote:
Think how difficult it would be to run a store like WC. The one in

town has been open one way or another for about 30 years, and they

have had good guys and bad guys manage it.



A friend of mine wound up managing the one here in town for about 6 or

so years. He was a hobby woodworker, always ready to learn, never

argued with the professionals and always expressed his way of doing

things as his opinion. So he got along well.



However, away from the store and over a beer, he was pretty

frustrated. He loved the serious, hobby guy that wanted to learn

something new and try it out. He hated the guys that thought the

tools they were buying should come with free lessons.



He liked the pros that came into the store as they ran their shops as

a business and expected that from him, too. However, when one of his

assistants goofed up a pro's blade sharpening order, forgot to order a

proprietary part needed for a machine, or didn't get the supplies in

needed to complete a contract, he was floored every time by how badly

the contractors acted.



He liked the interface between like minded people and always tried to

encourage as much coffee drinking and idea swapping as possible. He

hated with a passion the know it all, of which the store had plenty at

all times. He did however, love it when the know it alls would

dispense their vast knowledge (I heard "you know Robert, I've been

doing this as a serious hobby for about five years, now..." ) to the

short on time professionals so we could say all the things he

couldn't.



It was a tough job to get anyone that had serious woodworking

experience to work there as their store economic model only allowed

for slightly more than an hourly wage to be paid for most guys. So

that left their talent pool to be entry level in the job market guys,

or retirees that didn't need but a little bit to make them happy. The

latter camp worked there most often to get their great employee

discount, and regularly quit after they filled their shops.



He had a lot of things to contend with, and I always thought of him as

more of a circus manager than a business manager. Most of the time he

did, too.



Not the kind of job for everyone.



I googled Woodcraft store closings, and there are apparently a lot of

these stores going under. In particular, check out this:



http://www.woodtalkonline.com/topic/...raft-closings/



Pretty good discussion there.



A couple of things they leave off when describing their debt. The

franchise cost is part paid and part financed (if you choose) and the

local franchise for the WC store cost somewhere around $500,000 many

years ago. However, the smaller the town, the smaller the cost.

But then you have to have the inventory they want with only a bit if

discretionary items, so you have to stock the store with products they

supply. No shopping or jobber pricing for the franchisees.



And the items you buy from them are yours. No returns, no credit, no

transfers. When one of the stores in Austin TX closed a few years

ago, I believe they let the local franchise buy some of their

inventory.



It's a tough business. Like a lot of folks I know, I will pay more if

I get more. So if someone is there (remember their economic model) on

site that could help me with a problem, I would pay more and consider

it a consultation fee. But that means service, service, service.

Besides, supporting a local brick and mortar store is always a good

thing.



Since I don't feel like I get my money's worth out of WC, I simply

don't go there.



Robert
Robert,
I understand your friend's frustrations. I worked part-time at a Woodcraft store and hated a few things. Customers coming in to look at a product and ask questions then buying it elsewhere. And customers buying a used tool and bringing it in to us to teach them how to use it.
If you weren't busy, WC could probably afford the goodwill the help
would generate. If you really hated helping people, then I guess that
wasn't the right job for you. Do they pay commission? I'm part of a
group that gives free woodcarving instruction at the local WC.


Gene

" wrote:
Think how difficult it would be to run a store like WC. The one in
town has been open one way or another for about 30 years, and they
have had good guys and bad guys manage it.

A friend of mine wound up managing the one here in town for about 6 or
so years. He was a hobby woodworker, always ready to learn, never
argued with the professionals and always expressed his way of doing
things as his opinion. So he got along well.

However, away from the store and over a beer, he was pretty
frustrated. He loved the serious, hobby guy that wanted to learn
something new and try it out. He hated the guys that thought the
tools they were buying should come with free lessons.

He liked the pros that came into the store as they ran their shops as
a business and expected that from him, too. However, when one of his
assistants goofed up a pro's blade sharpening order, forgot to order a
proprietary part needed for a machine, or didn't get the supplies in
needed to complete a contract, he was floored every time by how badly
the contractors acted.

He liked the interface between like minded people and always tried to
encourage as much coffee drinking and idea swapping as possible. He
hated with a passion the know it all, of which the store had plenty at
all times. He did however, love it when the know it alls would
dispense their vast knowledge (I heard "you know Robert, I've been
doing this as a serious hobby for about five years, now..." ) to the
short on time professionals so we could say all the things he
couldn't.

It was a tough job to get anyone that had serious woodworking
experience to work there as their store economic model only allowed
for slightly more than an hourly wage to be paid for most guys. So
that left their talent pool to be entry level in the job market guys,
or retirees that didn't need but a little bit to make them happy. The
latter camp worked there most often to get their great employee
discount, and regularly quit after they filled their shops.

He had a lot of things to contend with, and I always thought of him as
more of a circus manager than a business manager. Most of the time he
did, too.

Not the kind of job for everyone.

I googled Woodcraft store closings, and there are apparently a lot of
these stores going under. In particular, check out this:

http://www.woodtalkonline.com/topic/...raft-closings/

Pretty good discussion there.

A couple of things they leave off when describing their debt. The
franchise cost is part paid and part financed (if you choose) and the
local franchise for the WC store cost somewhere around $500,000 many
years ago. However, the smaller the town, the smaller the cost.
But then you have to have the inventory they want with only a bit if
discretionary items, so you have to stock the store with products they
supply. No shopping or jobber pricing for the franchisees.

And the items you buy from them are yours. No returns, no credit, no
transfers. When one of the stores in Austin TX closed a few years
ago, I believe they let the local franchise buy some of their
inventory.

It's a tough business. Like a lot of folks I know, I will pay more if
I get more. So if someone is there (remember their economic model) on
site that could help me with a problem, I would pay more and consider
it a consultation fee. But that means service, service, service.
Besides, supporting a local brick and mortar store is always a good
thing.

Since I don't feel like I get my money's worth out of WC, I simply
don't go there.

Robert

I interviewed to work at the latest to open WC store in Houston in 2008. I
was kicking around the idea of part time, they were strongly feeling me out
for the manager position. I turned them down, I was not looking for that
much work. I would have had to open a new start up store in addition..
Been there, did that. Anyway at the time and I don't think any thing has
chanced, all Texas WC stores were owned by the same group of investors/
owner.

GeneT wrote:
On Saturday, May 18, 2013 2:18:39 PM UTC-10, wrote:
Think how difficult it would be to run a store like WC. The one in

town has been open one way or another for about 30 years, and they

have had good guys and bad guys manage it.



A friend of mine wound up managing the one here in town for about 6 or

so years. He was a hobby woodworker, always ready to learn, never

argued with the professionals and always expressed his way of doing

things as his opinion. So he got along well.



However, away from the store and over a beer, he was pretty

frustrated. He loved the serious, hobby guy that wanted to learn

something new and try it out. He hated the guys that thought the

tools they were buying should come with free lessons.



He liked the pros that came into the store as they ran their shops as

a business and expected that from him, too. However, when one of his

assistants goofed up a pro's blade sharpening order, forgot to order a

proprietary part needed for a machine, or didn't get the supplies in

needed to complete a contract, he was floored every time by how badly

the contractors acted.



He liked the interface between like minded people and always tried to

encourage as much coffee drinking and idea swapping as possible. He

hated with a passion the know it all, of which the store had plenty at

all times. He did however, love it when the know it alls would

dispense their vast knowledge (I heard "you know Robert, I've been

doing this as a serious hobby for about five years, now..." ) to the

short on time professionals so we could say all the things he

couldn't.



It was a tough job to get anyone that had serious woodworking

experience to work there as their store economic model only allowed

for slightly more than an hourly wage to be paid for most guys. So

that left their talent pool to be entry level in the job market guys,

or retirees that didn't need but a little bit to make them happy. The

latter camp worked there most often to get their great employee

discount, and regularly quit after they filled their shops.



He had a lot of things to contend with, and I always thought of him as

more of a circus manager than a business manager. Most of the time he

did, too.



Not the kind of job for everyone.



I googled Woodcraft store closings, and there are apparently a lot of

these stores going under. In particular, check out this:



http://www.woodtalkonline.com/topic/...raft-closings/



Pretty good discussion there.



A couple of things they leave off when describing their debt. The

franchise cost is part paid and part financed (if you choose) and the

local franchise for the WC store cost somewhere around $500,000 many

years ago. However, the smaller the town, the smaller the cost.

But then you have to have the inventory they want with only a bit if

discretionary items, so you have to stock the store with products they

supply. No shopping or jobber pricing for the franchisees.



And the items you buy from them are yours. No returns, no credit, no

transfers. When one of the stores in Austin TX closed a few years

ago, I believe they let the local franchise buy some of their

inventory.



It's a tough business. Like a lot of folks I know, I will pay more if

I get more. So if someone is there (remember their economic model) on

site that could help me with a problem, I would pay more and consider

it a consultation fee. But that means service, service, service.

Besides, supporting a local brick and mortar store is always a good

thing.



Since I don't feel like I get my money's worth out of WC, I simply

don't go there.



Robert

Robert,
I understand your friend's frustrations. I worked part-time at a
Woodcraft store and hated a few things. Customers coming in to look at a
product and ask questions then buying it elsewhere. And customers buying
a used tool and bringing it in to us to teach them how to use it.
Gene

Well everything you described is not unique to the WC stores, it is the
nature of most any retail business.

On Sat, 18 May 2013 20:40:40 -0700 (PDT), GeneT
wrote:

On Saturday, May 18, 2013 2:18:39 PM UTC-10, wrote:
Think how difficult it would be to run a store like WC. The one in

town has been open one way or another for about 30 years, and they

have had good guys and bad guys manage it.



A friend of mine wound up managing the one here in town for about 6 or

so years. He was a hobby woodworker, always ready to learn, never

argued with the professionals and always expressed his way of doing

things as his opinion. So he got along well.



However, away from the store and over a beer, he was pretty

frustrated. He loved the serious, hobby guy that wanted to learn

something new and try it out. He hated the guys that thought the

tools they were buying should come with free lessons.



He liked the pros that came into the store as they ran their shops as

a business and expected that from him, too. However, when one of his

assistants goofed up a pro's blade sharpening order, forgot to order a

proprietary part needed for a machine, or didn't get the supplies in

needed to complete a contract, he was floored every time by how badly

the contractors acted.



He liked the interface between like minded people and always tried to

encourage as much coffee drinking and idea swapping as possible. He

hated with a passion the know it all, of which the store had plenty at

all times. He did however, love it when the know it alls would

dispense their vast knowledge (I heard "you know Robert, I've been

doing this as a serious hobby for about five years, now..." ) to the

short on time professionals so we could say all the things he

couldn't.



It was a tough job to get anyone that had serious woodworking

experience to work there as their store economic model only allowed

for slightly more than an hourly wage to be paid for most guys. So

that left their talent pool to be entry level in the job market guys,

or retirees that didn't need but a little bit to make them happy. The

latter camp worked there most often to get their great employee

discount, and regularly quit after they filled their shops.



He had a lot of things to contend with, and I always thought of him as

more of a circus manager than a business manager. Most of the time he

did, too.



Not the kind of job for everyone.



I googled Woodcraft store closings, and there are apparently a lot of

these stores going under. In particular, check out this:



http://www.woodtalkonline.com/topic/...raft-closings/



Pretty good discussion there.



A couple of things they leave off when describing their debt. The

franchise cost is part paid and part financed (if you choose) and the

local franchise for the WC store cost somewhere around $500,000 many

years ago. However, the smaller the town, the smaller the cost.

But then you have to have the inventory they want with only a bit if

discretionary items, so you have to stock the store with products they

supply. No shopping or jobber pricing for the franchisees.



And the items you buy from them are yours. No returns, no credit, no

transfers. When one of the stores in Austin TX closed a few years

ago, I believe they let the local franchise buy some of their

inventory.



It's a tough business. Like a lot of folks I know, I will pay more if

I get more. So if someone is there (remember their economic model) on

site that could help me with a problem, I would pay more and consider

it a consultation fee. But that means service, service, service.

Besides, supporting a local brick and mortar store is always a good

thing.



Since I don't feel like I get my money's worth out of WC, I simply

don't go there.



Robert

Robert,
I understand your friend's frustrations. I worked part-time at a Woodcraft store and hated a few things. Customers coming in to look at a product and ask questions then buying it elsewhere. And customers buying a used tool and bringing it in to us to teach them how to use it.

If they didn't buy it from you I don't see that you're under any
obligation to help. OTOH, a tactful "It's a busy day, if you could
come back on Wednesday morning..." might help. Bottom line, it's a
hobby store. You're going to get those questions. Even a company as
big as Best Buy is having trouble with similar issues. If you can't
deal with it, you're in the wrong business.

On 5/18/2013 6:05 PM, Casper wrote:
Our local Woodcraft (Ohio) was up for sale by the franchise owner. He
also owns a store in Kentucky and can't handle two stores anymore. He
tried selling it but instead it has now changed into a corporate
store, the fourth in the country (so I am told). He had to sell or
pull all the mrechandise from the store before the EoM. Corporate will
not buy old merchandise back. They apparently prefer to keep only new
stock. I am glad it worked out for everybody. Some things are only
available at WC here and a number of us would miss that store.
`Casper

I just received a postcard stating my local Woodcraft is closing
soon. The "rumors” I heard earlier stated the owners were looking for
a buyer but could not find anyone to take over the franchise. They
have two stores in PA and this third location was a lot to manage.
For someone like me that has most tools I’ll ever buy it is not as
much a loss as for the newer woodworker or someone who wants to
upgrade. (But I still go there to buy the samller stuff I always
need) There are a few businesses around that have used machinery but
no where are there places to demo a lot of stuff, or give "how to"
build it courses. We’ve had three major WW retailers close here in
recent years; Skarie in Baltimore City, Cayce in Cockeysville, and
now Woodcraft. At least there are a few Festool retailers around, so
all is not lost.
Marc
Years ago, I thought woodcraft was better priced than Rockler, that has
now changed.

I find the stock limited, I appreciate having one in Allentown, Pa, but
it's a 1 hour trip, so I go when I need it. I think the ww community has
priced itself for the pro, because for us hobbiest's its getting really
expensive. The price of finishes and glues there are too high. Slides I
buy on sale, because they are just too high overall.

I am not loving the WoodRiver brand. It's not that high quality. I went
to buy a dial caliper (fractional)... POC bought the higher Quality HF
unit... yes higher quality.

I had for years found Woodcraft to be a better buy than Rockler, but
something happened that it has flipped the other way around.. They are
not as competitive anymore... wondering if some of these issue are
causing some of the failures.



--
Jeff

On 5/19/13 10:20 AM, woodchucker wrote:
On 5/18/2013 6:05 PM, Casper wrote:
Our local Woodcraft (Ohio) was up for sale by the franchise owner. He
also owns a store in Kentucky and can't handle two stores anymore. He
tried selling it but instead it has now changed into a corporate
store, the fourth in the country (so I am told). He had to sell or
pull all the mrechandise from the store before the EoM. Corporate will
not buy old merchandise back. They apparently prefer to keep only new
stock. I am glad it worked out for everybody. Some things are only
available at WC here and a number of us would miss that store.
`Casper

I just received a postcard stating my local Woodcraft is closing
soon. The "rumors” I heard earlier stated the owners were looking for
a buyer but could not find anyone to take over the franchise. They
have two stores in PA and this third location was a lot to manage.
For someone like me that has most tools I’ll ever buy it is not as
much a loss as for the newer woodworker or someone who wants to
upgrade. (But I still go there to buy the samller stuff I always
need) There are a few businesses around that have used machinery but
no where are there places to demo a lot of stuff, or give "how to"
build it courses. We’ve had three major WW retailers close here in
recent years; Skarie in Baltimore City, Cayce in Cockeysville, and
now Woodcraft. At least there are a few Festool retailers around, so
all is not lost.
Marc
Years ago, I thought woodcraft was better priced than Rockler, that has
now changed.

I find the stock limited, I appreciate having one in Allentown, Pa, but
it's a 1 hour trip, so I go when I need it. I think the ww community has
priced itself for the pro, because for us hobbiest's its getting really
expensive. The price of finishes and glues there are too high. Slides I
buy on sale, because they are just too high overall.

I am not loving the WoodRiver brand. It's not that high quality. I went
to buy a dial caliper (fractional)... POC bought the higher Quality HF
unit... yes higher quality.

I had for years found Woodcraft to be a better buy than Rockler, but
something happened that it has flipped the other way around.. They are
not as competitive anymore... wondering if some of these issue are
causing some of the failures.


One of the problems with both of these stores is they can't cater to
both their target audiences. In this thread, they've been called a
hobbyist store. I tend to agree with that except that they do offer very
professional products. I see their main issue being, trying to treat the
hobbyist like a professional and treating the professional like a hobbyist.

They are trying to sell professional tools to hobbyists with the guise
that it will make them professionals. When a professional comes in, he
gets treated like a hobbyist.

Woodcraft vs/ Rockler goes back and forth. We have both stores and they
are both a bit expensive. I agree about the WoodRiver brand. I have yet
to find one of their squares that was square. Heck, same with Rockler...
I bought a set of their Clamp-It assembly squares and guess what? They
aren't friggin square!


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 5/19/2013 10:20 AM, woodchucker wrote:

Years ago, I thought woodcraft was better priced than Rockler, that has
now changed.

I find the stock limited, I appreciate having one in Allentown, Pa, but
it's a 1 hour trip, so I go when I need it. I think the ww community has
priced itself for the pro, because for us hobbiest's its getting really
expensive. The price of finishes and glues there are too high. Slides I
buy on sale, because they are just too high overall.

I am not loving the WoodRiver brand. It's not that high quality. I went
to buy a dial caliper (fractional)... POC bought the higher Quality HF
unit... yes higher quality.

I had for years found Woodcraft to be a better buy than Rockler, but
something happened that it has flipped the other way around.. They are
not as competitive anymore... wondering if some of these issue are
causing some of the failures.



Plus 1!

Not sure what caused the flip flop (though I hadn't really noticed a
major difference in pricing between WC and Rockler).

Hereabouts - Northern Illinois - the Woodcraft store uprooted itself
from what was a convenient location for me (within a mile of a Harbor
Freight store) that I would be in for "Saturday breakfast club" on
nearly a weekly basis. They moved that store a couple of years ago a
number of miles north and east and it was just inconvenient for me to
get to whereas the Rockler store in Schaumburg was still handy due to my
normal travels in the course of business.

I stopped in at Woodcraft finally, for the first time, a couple of
months ago. Nice store, well laid out, product on display like in a
museum (with the same prices you might expect in a museum). Gone were
the clearance items, odd lot sale pieces, etc.

Also had occasion - shortly before that visit - to stop by at the
Milwaukee, WI store which I hadn't visited in a coon's age. Found that
to be the same.

Between the convenience, sale items, inventory, and people... Rockler is
my go to place these days and will likely remain so.

On Sun, 19 May 2013 11:31:33 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:



They are trying to sell professional tools to hobbyists with the guise
that it will make them professionals. When a professional comes in, he
gets treated like a hobbyist.

Woodcraft vs/ Rockler goes back and forth. We have both stores and they
are both a bit expensive. I agree about the WoodRiver brand. I have yet
to find one of their squares that was square. Heck, same with Rockler...
I bought a set of their Clamp-It assembly squares and guess what? They
aren't friggin square!

I like Woodcraft. Problem is, it is a 35 mile drive and as long as
I'm going that far, another 10 miles takes me to Coastal Tool and
much better prices.

On Sun, 19 May 2013 11:20:55 -0400, woodchucker
wrote:

On 5/18/2013 6:05 PM, Casper wrote:
Our local Woodcraft (Ohio) was up for sale by the franchise owner. He
also owns a store in Kentucky and can't handle two stores anymore. He
tried selling it but instead it has now changed into a corporate
store, the fourth in the country (so I am told). He had to sell or
pull all the mrechandise from the store before the EoM. Corporate will
not buy old merchandise back. They apparently prefer to keep only new
stock. I am glad it worked out for everybody. Some things are only
available at WC here and a number of us would miss that store.
`Casper

I just received a postcard stating my local Woodcraft is closing
soon. The "rumors” I heard earlier stated the owners were looking for
a buyer but could not find anyone to take over the franchise. They
have two stores in PA and this third location was a lot to manage.
For someone like me that has most tools I’ll ever buy it is not as
much a loss as for the newer woodworker or someone who wants to
upgrade. (But I still go there to buy the samller stuff I always
need) There are a few businesses around that have used machinery but
no where are there places to demo a lot of stuff, or give "how to"
build it courses. We’ve had three major WW retailers close here in
recent years; Skarie in Baltimore City, Cayce in Cockeysville, and
now Woodcraft. At least there are a few Festool retailers around, so
all is not lost.
Marc
Years ago, I thought woodcraft was better priced than Rockler, that has
now changed.

I'm coming to that conclusion too. I used to spend far more in
Woodcraft than Rockler but it's pretty much reversed.

I find the stock limited, I appreciate having one in Allentown, Pa, but
it's a 1 hour trip, so I go when I need it. I think the ww community has
priced itself for the pro, because for us hobbiest's its getting really
expensive. The price of finishes and glues there are too high. Slides I
buy on sale, because they are just too high overall.

Both are on the other side of Atlanta from me (about an hour,
depending on traffic). I like having both "locally". Better is
Highland but I haven't bought much there, other than a bit of
Festering stuff, either. I did buy a 106" guide rail and the parallel
guides fairly recently, though.

I am not loving the WoodRiver brand. It's not that high quality. I went
to buy a dial caliper (fractional)... POC bought the higher Quality HF
unit... yes higher quality.

I'm not too impressed with WoodRiver, either. I really liked the Colt
drill bits but they've dropped them. OTOH, some of the unique tools
at Rockler, like the pocket hole clamps, are really nice.

I had for years found Woodcraft to be a better buy than Rockler, but
something happened that it has flipped the other way around.. They are
not as competitive anymore... wondering if some of these issue are
causing some of the failures.

I just find them different. Each has its strengths but I agree that
Rockler has gotten a bit better (or perhaps the opposite). I'm sure
the economy has a lot to do with it.

On May 19, 11:31*am, -MIKE- wrote:

One of the problems with both of these stores is they can't cater to
both their target audiences. In this thread, they've been called a
hobbyist store. I tend to agree with that except that they do offer very
professional products. I see their main issue being, trying to treat the
hobbyist like a professional and treating the professional like a hobbyist.

On May 17, 11:35*pm, wrote:
On Fri, 17 May 2013 20:10:51 -0700 (PDT), marc rosen

I just received a postcard stating my local Woodcraft is closing
soon.

Any chance they will be offering reduced prices on stuff rather than
spending the money to have it all moved to another store?

Hey N,
They are having a sale of 10% off power tools, 20% off most items and
up to 50% off on closed out items. Festool is not included, as you
may have surmised.
Marc

wrote:
On May 19, 11:31 am, -MIKE- wrote:

One of the problems with both of these stores is they can't cater to
both their target audiences. In this thread, they've been called a
hobbyist store. I tend to agree with that except that they do offer
very professional products. I see their main issue being, trying to
treat the hobbyist like a professional and treating the professional
like a hobbyist.

They are trying to sell professional tools to hobbyists with the
guise that it will make them professionals. When a professional
comes in, he gets treated like a hobbyist.

I think that boils it all down nicely. That has certainly been my
experience.

I only deal with two types of vendors. First, HD/Lowe's/and a lumber
yard or two. Most of their employees don't know what they are
selling, what it is used for, much less how to use it. So they are of
no value to me. They must pay the occasional experienced, guy in the
different departments very little as I seem them infrequently. One in
ten trips (less sometimes) I find a guy that is a gold mine, but it is
like diving for pearls.

The other opposite of the extreme is my all contractor vendors. If
you don't know what you want, they will help you make a decision on
product, material or a tool as long as you are close to knowing
exactly what you want, but nothing more.

Invariably, our local WC has polite employees, but they don't have
much product knowledge and get nervous when you press them for
detailed information. Rarely have any of the employees used more than
one or two of the tools that is outside their favorite part of a
woodworking hobby.

Like I said, a tough nut to crack. As with all employers, we all
wonder how the the talent pool changed so much over the years. I know
there are a lot of great guys out there to hire, but like most of us,
I don't know where they are.


So... that, as well as other commentary, causes me to wonder. Mind you -
I'm not criticizing your thoughts or the contributions of others, but I do
see this recurring theme where folks here seem to expect retail help to be
as knowledgable as they are, or perhaps even more. What's worse is when I
read a post from a guy who loves to criticize the retail help for not
knowing a particularr piece of equipment or a particular piece of knowledge
that the poster knows. Makes me scream inside - So What! It's like it's
some ego trip for the rec woodworker to be able to blabber about someone who
does not know what he does. Again - I'm not criticizing your comments
above - they just got me to thinking... maybe beyond what you were
commenting on. Consider your comments to have been a springboard for my
thoughts.

If rec woodworkers are so smart, they don't need that help from the retail
help. So - why **** and moan about it? (again... not pointed at your
comments Robert). Why not just accept that the retail guy is supposed to
know where his product is and how to get it into your hands.

Argh... I'm getting on a soapbox so I'll just get off now...

Thanks for letting me up there all the same.

--

-Mike-

"Mike Marlow" wrote:

snip
If rec woodworkers are so smart, they don't need that help from the
retail help. So - why **** and moan about it?
snip
-------------------------------------------------------------
The sole job of a sales person is to GO TO THE BANK!

IOW, help the prospect reach a point where they make the
decision to buy the service or goods being offered and spend
money.

The sales person doesn't need to have or even should
have a working knowledge of the service or goods being offered,
but they better be skilled guiding the prospect thru the buying cycle
by using the most basic tool of the sales person, the question.

This most basic of communication tools is also used by your doctor
when you visit.

Having a working knowledge of all the bells and whistles of a product
or service does not necessarily aid in GOING TO THE BANK.

Helping the prospect feel "warm and fuzzy" so they can go to the bank
is why the sales person has a job in the first place.

Education is not free.

The user almost always ends up knowing more about the product or
service they own than the manufacturer of that product or service.


Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote:

snip
If rec woodworkers are so smart, they don't need that help from the
retail help. So - why **** and moan about it?
snip
-------------------------------------------------------------
The sole job of a sales person is to GO TO THE BANK!
What a fine representative you would make for someone else's
company!
I thought a sales-person was there to help the customer fulfill a need.


IOW, help the prospect reach a point where they make the
decision to buy the service or goods being offered and spend
money.

The sales person doesn't need to have or even should
have a working knowledge of the service or goods being offered,
but they better be skilled guiding the prospect thru the buying cycle
by using the most basic tool of the sales person, the question.

This most basic of communication tools is also used by your doctor
when you visit.

Having a working knowledge of all the bells and whistles of a product
or service does not necessarily aid in GOING TO THE BANK.

Helping the prospect feel "warm and fuzzy" so they can go to the bank
is why the sales person has a job in the first place.

Education is not free.

The user almost always ends up knowing more about the product or
service they own than the manufacturer of that product or service.


Lew

"Mike Marlow" wrote:

snip
If rec woodworkers are so smart, they don't need that help from the
retail help. So - why **** and moan about it?
snip
-------------------------------------------------------------

Lew Hodgett wrote:

The sole job of a sales person is to GO TO THE BANK!
----------------------------------------------------------

"Bill" wrote:

What a fine representative you would make for someone else's
company!
-------------------------------------------------
Lew Hodgett wrote:

If you want an argument you will have to change the subject.
---------------------------------------------------
"Bill" wrote:

I thought a sales-person was there to help the customer fulfill a
need.
-----------------------------------------
Lew Hodgett wrote:

See above.


Lew

On May 19, 8:59*pm, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

So... that, as well as other commentary, causes me to wonder. *Mind you -
I'm not criticizing your thoughts or the contributions of others, but I do
see this recurring theme where folks here seem to expect retail help to be
as knowledgable as they are, or perhaps even more.

I may not have explained myself well. I am not an expert on any
subject and never think I am. I wasn't seeking product use knowledge
(appreciated, but not expected), but rather something more elemental.

I am looking for the guy that knows where hammer drill bits are in the
store. I want to find the guy that can tell me were the 3/8" plumbing
supply lines are, or someone that can tell me where the roof sealer in
a caulk tube resides in their store. Store knowledge is good.
Product location is good. The local HDs we have are disorganized
enough that certain products simply aren't on the isle they say they
are on the announcement board.

HD used to be good about hiring at least a guy or two that had
perfunctory knowledge of product and application. Now I have no idea
what their standards are locally.

Strangely, the HD in a small town about 40 minutes from here is
great. The folks in the store know where everything is, and will ask
you a simple question like "have you used this before?" if it is
something like a new mold killer or pipe sealer. If you have, they
ask how you like it while they are checking you out.


What's worse is when I
read a post from a guy who loves to criticize the retail help for not
knowing a particularr piece of equipment or a particular piece of knowledge
that the poster knows. *Makes me scream inside - So What! *It's like it's
some ego trip for the rec woodworker to be able to blabber about someone who
does not know what he does.

Mike, there are a host of folks everywhere that love the "big me,
little you" situation, as long as they are on top. No one is an
expert at everything, and few I run into are an expert at anything.
My personal experience rings true with the biggest mouth usually knows
the least.

And so what is someone knows more about a machine than another guy.
The guys at the box stores are for the most part just trying to earn a
living. They don't want to be the next Norm, Nakashima or Krenov.
All I want from those guys is to tell me where the deck screws are.
(Why aren't they with all the other fasteners??? At some stores they
are...)

The only time I am ****ed off is when someone attempts to tell me how
to use a product or a tool when I have not solicited their opinion,
and made it clear I don't want it. When I go in to the store and ask
for a very specific item by brand name, model number and size, I don't
want the jovial, middle aged nit brain to say "well, wait a minute
fella, what are you going to use this for?"

And when purchasing oil based products in one of our local HDs, the
pin head in the paint department on deck (my regular guy is an ACE)
told me he wouldn't sell me naptha to thin their old based paint with
because it was the wrong product. He was really serious, too. He
told me mineral spirits or nothing, although we both know I could pick
up any can I wanted.

Even after I told him I did this kind of work for a living, he
continued with his diatribe about using the proper thinner for each
paint so that you would get the best results. He quickly inserted the
fact that HD would not be responsible for the results if I used naptha
instead of mineral spirits.

I pointed out to him HD never guaranteed my final product anyway, so
he could sleep well at night. It escalated as he followed me down the
isle telling me that he had gone through two different training
classes on paints and did a bit on the side as a contractor... then I
made a real scene... the store manager came over to where I was
wrong... read him the beads, too. All I wanted was my bright white
paint for trim (did you know HD has the brightest white enamel in the
business? Available nowhere else?), my thinner, and get out.

What gets me Mike, is that each HD and Lowe's have distinct
personalities. Now, when I suggest something for clients or
contractors, I send them to different stores. Since no two HDs have
the same inventory, I go to three or four of them fairly often, and
they are as different as they can be.

Anyway.... we are on the same page. 99% of the time in any retail
establishment I am happy if the folks just say "go to isle 27, about
halfway down, look about eye level on the right. If they have moved
it, come get me." That's all I need.

Robert

On Sun, 19 May 2013 21:59:38 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:





So... that, as well as other commentary, causes me to wonder. Mind you -
I'm not criticizing your thoughts or the contributions of others, but I do
see this recurring theme where folks here seem to expect retail help to be
as knowledgable as they are, or perhaps even more.


Why not? When I go to Wal Mart, the people at the register are able to
discuss the attributes of every product they sell. They can give
expert advice on product use too.

wrote:


Anyway.... we are on the same page. 99% of the time in any retail
establishment I am happy if the folks just say "go to isle 27, about
halfway down, look about eye level on the right. If they have moved
it, come get me." That's all I need.


Yup. When I worked there I was very happy to help people who didn't really
know much about things, and to make sure they left with the right product,
some knowledge about how to use it/do it, etc. I was equally happy to let
the kind of guy who knew everything and was intent on proving that I didn't,
go about making himself feel good about that, and then leave the store
happy.

Then, in the case of guys like you - I liked being able to pick up something
new myself. Some new twist on how to do a particular something, or the
likes. It was generally pretty easy to engage those people since they can
usually pick up on the fact that you do know something and conversation is
pretty quick to happen. Usually the phrase "huh... I never thought of that"
came out of each of our mouths at some point in a conversation.

--

-Mike-

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sun, 19 May 2013 21:59:38 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:





So... that, as well as other commentary, causes me to wonder. Mind
you - I'm not criticizing your thoughts or the contributions of
others, but I do see this recurring theme where folks here seem to
expect retail help to be as knowledgable as they are, or perhaps
even more.


Why not? When I go to Wal Mart, the people at the register are able to
discuss the attributes of every product they sell. They can give
expert advice on product use too.

I don't know about the Wal Mart where you like Edward - around here they
give expert advice on wrinkle cream or tatoos - but usually not both...

--

-Mike-

On Mon, 20 May 2013 06:09:42 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

So... that, as well as other commentary, causes me to wonder. Mind you -
I'm not criticizing your thoughts or the contributions of others, but I do
see this recurring theme where folks here seem to expect retail help to be
as knowledgable as they are, or perhaps even more.

Why not? When I go to Wal Mart, the people at the register are able to
discuss the attributes of every product they sell. They can give
expert advice on product use too.

I agree, but only marginally and it's getting worse as time goes on.
Between cost cutting, the relatively poor wages paid to typical Borg
workers and the frequent replacement of those workers, we can't expect
the same type of expertise or knowledge that we used to get. The
exception is when you get some of the older, retired people who are
there because they need to supplement their pensions just to survive.
And maybe too, those few who do it just to keep busy.

It's usually, only the smaller stores with employees that have been
employed there for some time that you can find the knowledge (and
experience) many people seek.

On Mon, 20 May 2013 06:09:42 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Sun, 19 May 2013 21:59:38 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

So... that, as well as other commentary, causes me to wonder. Mind you -
I'm not criticizing your thoughts or the contributions of others, but I do
see this recurring theme where folks here seem to expect retail help to be
as knowledgable as they are, or perhaps even more.


Why not? When I go to Wal Mart, the people at the register are able to
discuss the attributes of every product they sell. They can give
expert advice on product use too.

Good one!

On 5/20/2013 5:09 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sun, 19 May 2013 21:59:38 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:





So... that, as well as other commentary, causes me to wonder. Mind you -
I'm not criticizing your thoughts or the contributions of others, but I do
see this recurring theme where folks here seem to expect retail help to be
as knowledgable as they are, or perhaps even more.


Why not? When I go to Wal Mart, the people at the register are able to
discuss the attributes of every product they sell. They can give
expert advice on product use too.



Oh! your Walmart cashiers speak English?

On Sun, 19 May 2013 21:59:38 -0400, Mike Marlow wrote:

Why not just accept that the retail guy is supposed to
know where his product is and how to get it into your hands.

When I worked part time at Woodcraft, that attitude would have got me
fired. We were hired for our woodworking knowledge and were expected to
attend vendor seminars to learn more.

--
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and
carrying a cross.

In article ,
marc rosen wrote:
On May 17, 11:35*pm, wrote:
On Fri, 17 May 2013 20:10:51 -0700 (PDT), marc rosen

I just received a postcard stating my local Woodcraft is closing
soon.

Any chance they will be offering reduced prices on stuff rather than
spending the money to have it all moved to another store?

Hey N,
They are having a sale of 10% off power tools, 20% off most items and
up to 50% off on closed out items. Festool is not included, as you
may have surmised.
Marc

It's been a long time since I was in the Baltimore Woodcraft store. The
main reason I stopped going was that their prices were just way too high.
With 20% off, they are probably getting into the "reasonable" range.



--
Better to be stuck up in a tree than tied to one.

Larry W. - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org

Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sun, 19 May 2013 21:59:38 -0400, Mike Marlow wrote:

Why not just accept that the retail guy is supposed to
know where his product is and how to get it into your hands.

When I worked part time at Woodcraft, that attitude would have got me
fired. We were hired for our woodworking knowledge and were expected
to attend vendor seminars to learn more.

At a time, Home Depot used to expect more knowledge too. Woodcraft is a bit
different though - they sought out and paid for a higher level of knowledge.
Today - the big box stores have cut the hourly rate they're offering new
hires by a very large percentage. You're just not going to get that kind of
talent at those wages.

--

-Mike-

On 5/18/2013 11:35 AM, wrote:
On Saturday, May 18, 2013 12:31:00 PM UTC-5, wrote:
To me, WC has gone from being a woodworker's tool store to a hobby woodworker's boutique.


I think of contractor's tool stores as being "woodworker's tool stores". And Woodcraft as a "hobby boutique" store.


Your "contractor's tool stores" may offer more tools than in Seattle,
but here if you make furniture, Woodcraft (and sometimes Rockler) is the
place to go. Otherwise, it's essentially variations on hammers (meaning
crude but effective tools for banging **** together).

On Monday, May 20, 2013 9:24:22 PM UTC-5, scritch wrote:
On 5/18/2013 11:35 AM, wrote: On Saturday, May 18, 2013 12:31:00 PM UTC-5, wrote: To me, WC has gone from being a woodworker's tool store to a hobby woodworker's boutique.

I think of contractor's tool stores as being "woodworker's tool stores". And Woodcraft as a "hobby boutique" store.

Your "contractor's tool stores" may offer more tools than in Seattle, but here if you make furniture, Woodcraft (and sometimes Rockler) is the place to go. Otherwise, it's essentially variations on hammers (meaning crude but effective tools for banging **** together).


This is a local contractor tool store. Every power tool a house builder carpenter would ever need is here. Plus larger woodworking tools such as table saws, even the cabinet table saws.

http://www.acmetools.com/webapp/wcs/...atalogId=10101

wrote:

I may not have explained myself well. I am not an expert on any
subject and never think I am. I wasn't seeking product use knowledge
(appreciated, but not expected), but rather something more elemental.

I am looking for the guy that knows where hammer drill bits are in the
store. I want to find the guy that can tell me were the 3/8" plumbing
supply lines are, or someone that can tell me where the roof sealer in
a caulk tube resides in their store. Store knowledge is good.
Product location is good. The local HDs we have are disorganized
enough that certain products simply aren't on the isle they say they
are on the announcement board.
snip
-------------------------------------------------------------
That's known as knowing the range.

Gotta know the range before you GO TO THE BANK.

The sales person need not know what a "hooseydinger" is,
much less how to use it, but at a minimum,
knows how to ask enough questions to determine
what the prospect thinks a "hooseydinger" is, and what trade
is likely to use it.

Armed with that info, the sales person can then direct the prospect
to an area of the store where they might find a "hooseydinger".

The Home Depots I frequent have sales personal who after that
conversation say something like "follow me" and take off to the
"hooseydinger" aisle.

Reminds me of when I was 16, working in a hardware store,
not having a clue what most of the things I sold were used.

Maybe it also doesn't hurt that most of these sales people could
pass as my grand kids.

Lew

On Mon, 20 May 2013 23:09:55 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
The sales person need not know what a "hooseydinger" is,
much less how to use it, but at a minimum,
knows how to ask enough questions to determine
what the prospect thinks a "hooseydinger" is, and what trade
is likely to use it.

Another problem is the sales person who doesn't give the proper
information on a product or just doesn't have the time to give a
detailed description.

Case in point. When I was in the Borg the other day, I was listening
to a salesman educating a customer on how to use toggle bolts. The
customer stated more than once that he wanted to hang a small spice
rack and then add additional sections to it as his collection grows.

I listened politely for a few minutes and then after the salesperson
left, I showed the customer the difference between toggle bolts and
hollow wall anchors as well as their respective capabilities and
*faults*.

On Mon, 20 May 2013 23:09:55 -0700, Lew Hodgett wrote:

Armed with that info, the sales person can then direct the prospect to
an area of the store where they might find a "hooseydinger".

When I was a kid, Belknap Hardware was still in business in Louisville.
When I read about it today it's called a wholesale outfit, but I never
had any problem buying from them as a retail customer - must be they were
both. They claimed 40 acres of floor space :-).

Anyway, they had employees who knew where everything was in the whole 40
acres. At least it seemed that way. Some of the rooms were floor to
ceiling drawers and the employees in that area knew the exact drawer.

It's worth looking at their history:

http://www.wkfinetools.com/hus/0-har.../bHistory1.asp



--
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and
carrying a cross.





--
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and
carrying a cross.

On Tue, 21 May 2013 16:21:42 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard
wrote:

On Mon, 20 May 2013 23:09:55 -0700, Lew Hodgett wrote:

Armed with that info, the sales person can then direct the prospect to
an area of the store where they might find a "hooseydinger".

When I was a kid, Belknap Hardware was still in business in Louisville.
When I read about it today it's called a wholesale outfit, but I never
had any problem buying from them as a retail customer - must be they were
both. They claimed 40 acres of floor space :-).

Anyway, they had employees who knew where everything was in the whole 40
acres. At least it seemed that way. Some of the rooms were floor to
ceiling drawers and the employees in that area knew the exact drawer.

It's worth looking at their history:

http://www.wkfinetools.com/hus/0-har.../bHistory1.asp



--
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and
carrying a cross.

Ballard Hardware in Seattle, they started out servicing the fishing
boats. They had an old building about 7-8 stories, old wood floors
and wood parts drawers. You literally got a guide when you went in
there, and they did know where everything was.

Mike M

Sure is a shame to see this store is going to close! I know the prices are a
bit higher than some other stores, and the selection is limited on certain
things too. But you could always depend on the guys that work there to be
friendly, honest about their knowledge level and willing to talk over your
personal issue with the other guys to try to arrive at the best possible
solution for the customer. Some of the guys were only slightly more
knowledgeable than my own "Hobbyist" level in some areas, while being very
knowledgeable about particular areas of expertise. Other guys were extremely
smart with respect to most topics, and willing to share that knowledge
without talking down to a customer.
Bottom line is simply this . . . The store filled the niche it was designed
to fill. There were items that only a pro would want, or know how to use.
And there were the standard tools and supplies that every woodworker needs.
I think the balance was just right for most guys who enjoy woodworking. At
least I could be reasonably sure that the store would have a decent quality
saw blade, or router bit if and when I needed it. I didn't have to make due
with the offerings from some warehouse store. The sales guys knew enough to
recommend a certain type of tool for a specific application, instead of just
showing you what the chain chose for offerings. At times, these guys would
go way beyond the salesperson role to help you with choices of tools and
materials that fell into an application area that was new for you. I bought
a little lathe from another store because it was a great deal. I knew I
would only use it on rare occasions when I bought it. So I went to the local
WC store for a set of cutting tools, knowing absolutely nothing about the
subject. The guy who helped me actually really helped me! He told me about
the tool size ranges, grades of steel, grind angle,andle design and material
etc.. I had no idea! I ended up buying a set that far surpassed my needs,
but not out of ignorance. I was just grateful for all the knowledge the guy
had shared with me. Service like that deserves a bit more loyalty from it's
customers.
Talk is cheap, labor not so much. If you want a store that offers high
quality service . . . Make the purchase from the place that gave you the
service . . . Even if it costs a bit more. Too many people want to go to the
local high end retail store that offers reasonably knowledgeable sales
people, and then go to the warehouse store with minimum wage labor to make
the purchase at 10% less cost. I had even talked about this very topic just
a week or two before getting my "Going out of business" post card. Everyone
loves the service offered by retail, but only want to pay the wholesale
price. If you enjoyed the added service of the retail store you use . . . Be
a man of conscience and loyalty . . . Buy from the guy who actually helped
you with the purchase. Everyone loses when any business of this type goes
under. The owner loses, the employees lose and so does the customer. When
this store closes, I'll be forced to go to Rockler, or one of the other
online stores for anything other than the "Home Depot version of a tool. I
won't be able to walk into a local store for a demonstration, or additional
information. I won't be able to pick up the tool to feel the weight and
balance etc.. There won't be weekend classes for areas of interest I want to
explore. And I won't be able to get the odd tool I need for a project on the
weekend while I still have the shop a mess, or need to complete before the
pending gift occasion on a Monday.
Retail stores serve a certain niche. They offer more in a lot of respects,
and you pay more for an item as a result. Nobody gripes about the prices
they pay at a convenience store, as a result of having the convenience. But
the tears flow, and the complaining starts right away when one of these
other retail stores has a slightly higher price on a specialty tool, or name
brand supply. I for one am glad to pay a little more for a good tool that I
need right away. I know I can order most anything from an online store for a
lower price. But it's convenient to hop in the car and get the tool when I
need it. And it's even better if the store has someone around that knows a
bit more than I do about the project I'm jumping into.
Just my two cents, for what it's worth. It will be a sad day when this store
closes it's doors. There is little left to replace all that this store
offered in our area. I'm sure most of the customers who used it will agree.
.. . . Probably the next time they can't finish the project they are involved
in, because that little specialized convenience store just isn't there any
more.