Working on a decorative wagon wheel in wood, but I'd really like to put
a metal tire on it. Now, that's no trick if it's just for looks--make a
steel ring that's close enough to the dimension that a little epoxy
under it will hold it, but the devil in me wants to do a proper job and
shrink the thing.

Trouble is that this is a no-burn area so I can't just light a fire in
the back yard and heat the tire.

So, any ideas on how to go about this? The wheel is 2 feet in diameter,
making the tire too big to fit in a barbecue or the like. If I was
making a bunch of 'em I'd be tempted to just build a charcoal pit big
enough and call it a barbie, but that's a lot of work for one wheel.

And yeah, I know I can find a blacksmith, but I'm more interested in the
making than in having a wheel.

In article ,
"J. Clarke" wrote:

Working on a decorative wagon wheel in wood, but I'd really like to put
a metal tire on it. Now, that's no trick if it's just for looks--make a
steel ring that's close enough to the dimension that a little epoxy
under it will hold it, but the devil in me wants to do a proper job and
shrink the thing.

Trouble is that this is a no-burn area so I can't just light a fire in
the back yard and heat the tire.

So, any ideas on how to go about this? The wheel is 2 feet in diameter,
making the tire too big to fit in a barbecue or the like. If I was
making a bunch of 'em I'd be tempted to just build a charcoal pit big
enough and call it a barbie, but that's a lot of work for one wheel.

And yeah, I know I can find a blacksmith, but I'm more interested in the
making than in having a wheel.

A charcoal fire will do the trick, and most jurisdictions allow grills. It's
the smoke they object to.

How big is the tire?

Joe Gwinn

In article ,
J. Clarke wrote:
Working on a decorative wagon wheel in wood, but I'd really like to put
a metal tire on it. Now, that's no trick if it's just for looks--make a
steel ring that's close enough to the dimension that a little epoxy
under it will hold it, but the devil in me wants to do a proper job and
shrink the thing.

Trouble is that this is a no-burn area so I can't just light a fire in
the back yard and heat the tire.

So, any ideas on how to go about this? The wheel is 2 feet in diameter,
making the tire too big to fit in a barbecue or the like. If I was
making a bunch of 'em I'd be tempted to just build a charcoal pit big
enough and call it a barbie, but that's a lot of work for one wheel.

And yeah, I know I can find a blacksmith, but I'm more interested in the
making than in having a wheel.

2 feet in diameter is about the size of a large pizza. Will it fit
in your oven?


--
When the game is over, the pawn and the king are returned to the same box.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org

On 7/31/2010 9:44 AM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In ,
"J. wrote:

Working on a decorative wagon wheel in wood, but I'd really like to put
a metal tire on it. Now, that's no trick if it's just for looks--make a
steel ring that's close enough to the dimension that a little epoxy
under it will hold it, but the devil in me wants to do a proper job and
shrink the thing.

Trouble is that this is a no-burn area so I can't just light a fire in
the back yard and heat the tire.

So, any ideas on how to go about this? The wheel is 2 feet in diameter,
making the tire too big to fit in a barbecue or the like. If I was
making a bunch of 'em I'd be tempted to just build a charcoal pit big
enough and call it a barbie, but that's a lot of work for one wheel.

And yeah, I know I can find a blacksmith, but I'm more interested in the
making than in having a wheel.

A charcoal fire will do the trick, and most jurisdictions allow grills. It's
the smoke they object to.

How big is the tire?

sigh Count up four paragraphs.

Simple, make the ring 1/8 small. Roll to shape and butt weld. Dress with a grinder and heat with a rose bud acetylene torch . Set
in place and let it cool. No smoke, no noise and no problems.
Steve

"J. Clarke" wrote in message ...
Working on a decorative wagon wheel in wood, but I'd really like to put a metal tire on it. Now, that's no trick if it's just
for looks--make a steel ring that's close enough to the dimension that a little epoxy under it will hold it, but the devil in me
wants to do a proper job and shrink the thing.

Trouble is that this is a no-burn area so I can't just light a fire in the back yard and heat the tire.

So, any ideas on how to go about this? The wheel is 2 feet in diameter, making the tire too big to fit in a barbecue or the
like. If I was making a bunch of 'em I'd be tempted to just build a charcoal pit big enough and call it a barbie, but that's a
lot of work for one wheel.

And yeah, I know I can find a blacksmith, but I'm more interested in the making than in having a wheel.

On 7/31/2010 10:13 AM, Larry W wrote:
In ,
J. wrote:
Working on a decorative wagon wheel in wood, but I'd really like to put
a metal tire on it. Now, that's no trick if it's just for looks--make a
steel ring that's close enough to the dimension that a little epoxy
under it will hold it, but the devil in me wants to do a proper job and
shrink the thing.

Trouble is that this is a no-burn area so I can't just light a fire in
the back yard and heat the tire.

So, any ideas on how to go about this? The wheel is 2 feet in diameter,
making the tire too big to fit in a barbecue or the like. If I was
making a bunch of 'em I'd be tempted to just build a charcoal pit big
enough and call it a barbie, but that's a lot of work for one wheel.

And yeah, I know I can find a blacksmith, but I'm more interested in the
making than in having a wheel.

2 feet in diameter is about the size of a large pizza. Will it fit
in your oven?

No. 21 wide by 17 deep. There's also the question of whether it gets
hot enough for good take-up. The tire doesn't just have to fit, it has
to be a little undersized when cold so that it loads the wooden parts in
compression--that's where the strength of the wheel comes from. 500F
will give about a quarter inch of expansion with low carbon steel, red
heat will give close to a half inch. The various 1800s and early 1900s
blacksmithing journals suggest that the iron in use at the time would
expand more than this.

By the way, the large pizza from the big chains is 14-15 inch, the
independents may go 18.

On 7/31/2010 10:30 AM, Steve Lusardi wrote:
Simple, make the ring 1/8 small. Roll to shape and butt weld. Dress with
a grinder and heat with a rose bud acetylene torch . Set in place and
let it cool. No smoke, no noise and no problems.

Can the whole two foot diameter wheel be brought to temperature at once
with a rose bud torch?

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Working on a decorative wagon wheel in wood, but I'd really like to
put a metal tire on it. Now, that's no trick if it's just for
looks--make a steel ring that's close enough to the dimension that a
little epoxy under it will hold it, but the devil in me wants to do a
proper job and shrink the thing.

Trouble is that this is a no-burn area so I can't just light a fire in
the back yard and heat the tire.

So, any ideas on how to go about this? The wheel is 2 feet in
diameter, making the tire too big to fit in a barbecue or the like. If
I was making a bunch of 'em I'd be tempted to just build a charcoal
pit big enough and call it a barbie, but that's a lot of work for one
wheel.

And yeah, I know I can find a blacksmith, but I'm more interested in
the making than in having a wheel.

On Jul 31, 10:24*am, "J. Clarke" wrote:
On 7/31/2010 9:44 AM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:



In ,
* "J. *wrote:

Working on a decorative wagon wheel in wood, but I'd really like to put
a metal tire on it. *Now, that's no trick if it's just for looks--make a
steel ring that's close enough to the dimension that a little epoxy
under it will hold it, but the devil in me wants to do a proper job and
shrink the thing.

Trouble is that this is a no-burn area so I can't just light a fire in
the back yard and heat the tire.

So, any ideas on how to go about this? *The wheel is 2 feet in diameter,
making the tire too big to fit in a barbecue or the like. *If I was
making a bunch of 'em I'd be tempted to just build a charcoal pit big
enough and call it a barbie, but that's a lot of work for one wheel.

And yeah, I know I can find a blacksmith, but I'm more interested in the
making than in having a wheel.

A charcoal fire will do the trick, and most jurisdictions allow grills. *It's
the smoke they object to.

How big is the tire?

sigh *Count up four paragraphs.

I counted up four paragraphs and it said some thing about finding a
blacksmith, but nothing about the size of the wheel.

How big is the wheel? {ducking}

R

On 07/31/2010 08:26 AM, RicodJour wrote:
On Jul 31, 10:24 am, "J. wrote:
On 7/31/2010 9:44 AM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:



In ,
"J. wrote:

Working on a decorative wagon wheel in wood, but I'd really like to put
a metal tire on it. Now, that's no trick if it's just for looks--make a
steel ring that's close enough to the dimension that a little epoxy
under it will hold it, but the devil in me wants to do a proper job and
shrink the thing.

Trouble is that this is a no-burn area so I can't just light a fire in
the back yard and heat the tire.

So, any ideas on how to go about this? The wheel is 2 feet in diameter,
making the tire too big to fit in a barbecue or the like. If I was
making a bunch of 'em I'd be tempted to just build a charcoal pit big
enough and call it a barbie, but that's a lot of work for one wheel.

And yeah, I know I can find a blacksmith, but I'm more interested in the
making than in having a wheel.

A charcoal fire will do the trick, and most jurisdictions allow grills. It's
the smoke they object to.

How big is the tire?

sigh Count up four paragraphs.

I counted up four paragraphs and it said some thing about finding a
blacksmith, but nothing about the size of the wheel.

How big is the wheel? {ducking}

"The wheel is 2 feet in diameter, making the tire too big to fit in a
barbecue or the like."

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

In article ,
Tim Wescott wrote:

On 07/31/2010 08:26 AM, RicodJour wrote:
On Jul 31, 10:24 am, "J. wrote:
On 7/31/2010 9:44 AM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:



In ,
"J. wrote:

Working on a decorative wagon wheel in wood, but I'd really like to put
a metal tire on it. Now, that's no trick if it's just for looks--make a
steel ring that's close enough to the dimension that a little epoxy
under it will hold it, but the devil in me wants to do a proper job and
shrink the thing.

Trouble is that this is a no-burn area so I can't just light a fire in
the back yard and heat the tire.

So, any ideas on how to go about this? The wheel is 2 feet in diameter,
making the tire too big to fit in a barbecue or the like. If I was
making a bunch of 'em I'd be tempted to just build a charcoal pit big
enough and call it a barbie, but that's a lot of work for one wheel.

And yeah, I know I can find a blacksmith, but I'm more interested in the
making than in having a wheel.

A charcoal fire will do the trick, and most jurisdictions allow grills.
It's
the smoke they object to.

How big is the tire?

sigh Count up four paragraphs.

I counted up four paragraphs and it said some thing about finding a
blacksmith, but nothing about the size of the wheel.

How big is the wheel? {ducking}

"The wheel is 2 feet in diameter, making the tire too big to fit in a
barbecue or the like."

The diameter (2') is only one of the three needed numbers. What is thickness
and width?

Joe Gwinn

On Jul 31, 12:14*pm, Tim Wescott wrote:
On 07/31/2010 08:26 AM, RicodJour wrote:



On Jul 31, 10:24 am, "J. *wrote:
On 7/31/2010 9:44 AM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:

In ,
* *"J. * *wrote:

Working on a decorative wagon wheel in wood, but I'd really like to put
a metal tire on it. *Now, that's no trick if it's just for looks--make a
steel ring that's close enough to the dimension that a little epoxy
under it will hold it, but the devil in me wants to do a proper job and
shrink the thing.

Trouble is that this is a no-burn area so I can't just light a fire in
the back yard and heat the tire.

So, any ideas on how to go about this? *The wheel is 2 feet in diameter,
making the tire too big to fit in a barbecue or the like. *If I was
making a bunch of 'em I'd be tempted to just build a charcoal pit big
enough and call it a barbie, but that's a lot of work for one wheel.

And yeah, I know I can find a blacksmith, but I'm more interested in the
making than in having a wheel.

A charcoal fire will do the trick, and most jurisdictions allow grills. *It's
the smoke they object to.

How big is the tire?

sigh * *Count up four paragraphs.

I counted up four paragraphs and it said some thing about finding a
blacksmith, but nothing about the size of the wheel.

How big is the wheel? *{ducking}

"The wheel is 2 feet in diameter, making the tire too big to fit in a
barbecue or the like."

Okay, are we talking about J. Clarke's feet or yours? One of each...?
{ducking once again}

R

On 7/31/2010 12:21 PM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In ,
Tim wrote:

On 07/31/2010 08:26 AM, RicodJour wrote:
On Jul 31, 10:24 am, "J. wrote:
On 7/31/2010 9:44 AM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:



In ,
"J. wrote:

Working on a decorative wagon wheel in wood, but I'd really like to put
a metal tire on it. Now, that's no trick if it's just for looks--make a
steel ring that's close enough to the dimension that a little epoxy
under it will hold it, but the devil in me wants to do a proper job and
shrink the thing.

Trouble is that this is a no-burn area so I can't just light a fire in
the back yard and heat the tire.

So, any ideas on how to go about this? The wheel is 2 feet in diameter,
making the tire too big to fit in a barbecue or the like. If I was
making a bunch of 'em I'd be tempted to just build a charcoal pit big
enough and call it a barbie, but that's a lot of work for one wheel.

And yeah, I know I can find a blacksmith, but I'm more interested in the
making than in having a wheel.

A charcoal fire will do the trick, and most jurisdictions allow grills.
It's
the smoke they object to.

How big is the tire?

sigh Count up four paragraphs.

I counted up four paragraphs and it said some thing about finding a
blacksmith, but nothing about the size of the wheel.

How big is the wheel? {ducking}

"The wheel is 2 feet in diameter, making the tire too big to fit in a
barbecue or the like."

The diameter (2') is only one of the three needed numbers. What is thickness
and width?

An inch wide, 3/16 thick.

On 7/31/2010 11:14 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
On 7/31/2010 10:30 AM, Steve Lusardi wrote:
Simple, make the ring 1/8 small. Roll to shape and butt weld. Dress with
a grinder and heat with a rose bud acetylene torch . Set in place and
let it cool. No smoke, no noise and no problems.

Can the whole two foot diameter wheel be brought to temperature at once
with a rose bud torch?

Thinking about it, this is probably the way to go. Push me off center
to get an oxyacetylene rig.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Working on a decorative wagon wheel in wood, but I'd really like to
put a metal tire on it. Now, that's no trick if it's just for
looks--make a steel ring that's close enough to the dimension that a
little epoxy under it will hold it, but the devil in me wants to do a
proper job and shrink the thing.

Trouble is that this is a no-burn area so I can't just light a fire in
the back yard and heat the tire.

So, any ideas on how to go about this? The wheel is 2 feet in
diameter, making the tire too big to fit in a barbecue or the like. If
I was making a bunch of 'em I'd be tempted to just build a charcoal
pit big enough and call it a barbie, but that's a lot of work for one
wheel.

And yeah, I know I can find a blacksmith, but I'm more interested in
the making than in having a wheel.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Working on a decorative wagon wheel in wood, but I'd really like to put a
metal tire on it. Now, that's no trick if it's just for looks--make a
steel ring that's close enough to the dimension that a little epoxy under
it will hold it, but the devil in me wants to do a proper job and shrink
the thing.

Trouble is that this is a no-burn area so I can't just light a fire in the
back yard and heat the tire.

So, any ideas on how to go about this? The wheel is 2 feet in diameter,
making the tire too big to fit in a barbecue or the like. If I was making
a bunch of 'em I'd be tempted to just build a charcoal pit big enough and
call it a barbie, but that's a lot of work for one wheel.

And yeah, I know I can find a blacksmith, but I'm more interested in the
making than in having a wheel.

Well, you could get a big tank of propane and/or other gas and just heat up
the whole thing. I would think tha it would take a fair amount of gas and
time.

As for a charcol pit, that would probsbly work. How about just making a
circular pit? Dig a hole in the ground a bit bigger than the wheel, but
leave the middle intact. So you are just heating the steel itself and not a
big unrelated area.

This seems like a whole lot of work and bother for a little authenticity.
Is it really worth all this trouble?

On Jul 31, 11:12*am, "J. Clarke" wrote:
On 7/31/2010 10:13 AM, Larry W wrote:





In ,
J. *wrote:
Working on a decorative wagon wheel in wood, but I'd really like to put
a metal tire on it. *Now, that's no trick if it's just for looks--make a
steel ring that's close enough to the dimension that a little epoxy
under it will hold it, but the devil in me wants to do a proper job and
shrink the thing.

Trouble is that this is a no-burn area so I can't just light a fire in
the back yard and heat the tire.

So, any ideas on how to go about this? *The wheel is 2 feet in diameter,
making the tire too big to fit in a barbecue or the like. *If I was
making a bunch of 'em I'd be tempted to just build a charcoal pit big
enough and call it a barbie, but that's a lot of work for one wheel.

And yeah, I know I can find a blacksmith, but I'm more interested in the
making than in having a wheel.

2 feet in diameter is about the size of a large pizza. Will it fit
in your oven?

No. *21 wide by 17 deep. *There's also the question of whether it gets
hot enough for good take-up. *The tire doesn't just have to fit, it has
to be a little undersized when cold so that it loads the wooden parts in
compression--that's where the strength of the wheel comes from. *500F
will give about a quarter inch of expansion with low carbon steel, red
heat will give close to a half inch. *The various 1800s and early 1900s
blacksmithing journals suggest that the iron in use at the time would
expand more than this.

By the way, the large pizza from the big chains is 14-15 inch, the
independents may go 18.

Three barbecues in a triangle?

According to this sectional tires are also authentic:
http://www.wheelwrights.org/craft_history_frame.html

I'd angle the ends of one felloe such that screws through the rim
wedge it in.

Long ago I watched the smith at Mystic Seaport finish a wheel. IIRC he
had a jig that clamped the wheel together and located the hot rim when
he dropped it on.

jsw

In article , "J. Clarke"
wrote:

On 7/31/2010 12:21 PM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In ,
Tim wrote:

On 07/31/2010 08:26 AM, RicodJour wrote:
On Jul 31, 10:24 am, "J. wrote:
On 7/31/2010 9:44 AM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:



In ,
"J. wrote:

Working on a decorative wagon wheel in wood, but I'd really like to
put
a metal tire on it. Now, that's no trick if it's just for looks--make
a
steel ring that's close enough to the dimension that a little epoxy
under it will hold it, but the devil in me wants to do a proper job
and
shrink the thing.

Trouble is that this is a no-burn area so I can't just light a fire in
the back yard and heat the tire.

So, any ideas on how to go about this? The wheel is 2 feet in
diameter,
making the tire too big to fit in a barbecue or the like. If I was
making a bunch of 'em I'd be tempted to just build a charcoal pit big
enough and call it a barbie, but that's a lot of work for one wheel.

And yeah, I know I can find a blacksmith, but I'm more interested in
the
making than in having a wheel.

A charcoal fire will do the trick, and most jurisdictions allow grills.
It's
the smoke they object to.

How big is the tire?

sigh Count up four paragraphs.

I counted up four paragraphs and it said some thing about finding a
blacksmith, but nothing about the size of the wheel.

How big is the wheel? {ducking}

"The wheel is 2 feet in diameter, making the tire too big to fit in a
barbecue or the like."

The diameter (2') is only one of the three needed numbers. What is
thickness
and width?

An inch wide, 3/16 thick.

Ahh. That's reasonably substantial. Thinner would be herder to keep hot using
a torch. I bet a propane weedburner would do the job, especially if the heat
were confined with some firebricks.

Joe Gwinn

On Jul 31, 12:10*pm, "Lee Michaels" wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message

...



Working on a decorative wagon wheel in wood, but I'd really like to put a
metal tire on it. *Now, that's no trick if it's just for looks--make a
steel ring that's close enough to the dimension that a little epoxy under
it will hold it, but the devil in me wants to do a proper job and shrink
the thing.

Trouble is that this is a no-burn area so I can't just light a fire in the
back yard and heat the tire.

So, any ideas on how to go about this? *The wheel is 2 feet in diameter,
making the tire too big to fit in a barbecue or the like. *If I was making
a bunch of 'em I'd be tempted to just build a charcoal pit big enough and
call it a barbie, but that's a lot of work for one wheel.

And yeah, I know I can find a blacksmith, but I'm more interested in the
making than in having a wheel.

Well, you could get a big tank of propane and/or other gas and just heat up
the whole thing. I would think tha it would take a fair amount of gas and
time.

As for a charcol pit, that would probsbly work. How about just making a
circular pit? *Dig a hole in the ground a bit bigger than the wheel, but
leave the middle intact. So you are just heating the steel itself and not a
big unrelated area.

This seems like a whole lot of work and bother for a little authenticity.
Is it really worth all this trouble?

Use the tire as the fire ring....
Once it is hot enough, install.

No. 21 wide by 17 deep. There's also the question of whether it gets
hot enough for good take-up. The tire doesn't just have to fit, it has
to be a little undersized when cold so that it loads the wooden parts in
compression--that's where the strength of the wheel comes from. 500F
will give about a quarter inch of expansion with low carbon steel, red
heat will give close to a half inch. The various 1800s and early 1900s
blacksmithing journals suggest that the iron in use at the time would
expand more than this.

By the way, the large pizza from the big chains is 14-15 inch, the
independents may go 18.



Clear a spot on the ground and pile some charcoal over it. Perhaps use old
bricks to shore up the outer diameter of the pile. I don't know if this
violates your 'no burn' statute, but you could say you are roasting a goat.

Judicious use of a high output propane weed burner would eventually work as
well.

-Bruce

On Jul 31, 12:39*pm, "J. Clarke" wrote:
On 7/31/2010 11:14 AM, J. Clarke wrote:

On 7/31/2010 10:30 AM, Steve Lusardi wrote:
Simple, make the ring 1/8 small. Roll to shape and butt weld. Dress with
a grinder and heat with a rose bud acetylene torch . Set in place and
let it cool. No smoke, no noise and no problems.

Can the whole two foot diameter wheel be brought to temperature at once
with a rose bud torch?

Thinking about it, this is probably the way to go. *Push me off center
to get an oxyacetylene rig.

Or build a Morris Dovey solar collector and heat it up parabolically.

R

On Jul 31, 2:11*pm, Bruce wrote:
...

Clear a spot on the ground and pile some charcoal over it. Perhaps use old
bricks to shore up the outer diameter of the pile. I don't know if this
violates your 'no burn' statute, but you could say you are roasting a goat.

On 7/31/2010 1:10 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:
"J. wrote in message
...
Working on a decorative wagon wheel in wood, but I'd really like to put a
metal tire on it. Now, that's no trick if it's just for looks--make a
steel ring that's close enough to the dimension that a little epoxy under
it will hold it, but the devil in me wants to do a proper job and shrink
the thing.

Trouble is that this is a no-burn area so I can't just light a fire in the
back yard and heat the tire.

So, any ideas on how to go about this? The wheel is 2 feet in diameter,
making the tire too big to fit in a barbecue or the like. If I was making
a bunch of 'em I'd be tempted to just build a charcoal pit big enough and
call it a barbie, but that's a lot of work for one wheel.

And yeah, I know I can find a blacksmith, but I'm more interested in the
making than in having a wheel.

Well, you could get a big tank of propane and/or other gas and just heat up
the whole thing. I would think tha it would take a fair amount of gas and
time.

As for a charcol pit, that would probsbly work. How about just making a
circular pit? Dig a hole in the ground a bit bigger than the wheel, but
leave the middle intact. So you are just heating the steel itself and not a
big unrelated area.

This seems like a whole lot of work and bother for a little authenticity.
Is it really worth all this trouble?

It's about the journey, not the destination. I'd like to do it just so
I know I can.

On 7/31/2010 1:58 PM, Cross-Slide wrote:
On Jul 31, 12:10 pm, "Lee wrote:
"J. wrote in message

...



Working on a decorative wagon wheel in wood, but I'd really like to put a
metal tire on it. Now, that's no trick if it's just for looks--make a
steel ring that's close enough to the dimension that a little epoxy under
it will hold it, but the devil in me wants to do a proper job and shrink
the thing.

Trouble is that this is a no-burn area so I can't just light a fire in the
back yard and heat the tire.

So, any ideas on how to go about this? The wheel is 2 feet in diameter,
making the tire too big to fit in a barbecue or the like. If I was making
a bunch of 'em I'd be tempted to just build a charcoal pit big enough and
call it a barbie, but that's a lot of work for one wheel.

And yeah, I know I can find a blacksmith, but I'm more interested in the
making than in having a wheel.

Well, you could get a big tank of propane and/or other gas and just heat up
the whole thing. I would think tha it would take a fair amount of gas and
time.

As for a charcol pit, that would probsbly work. How about just making a
circular pit? Dig a hole in the ground a bit bigger than the wheel, but
leave the middle intact. So you are just heating the steel itself and not a
big unrelated area.

This seems like a whole lot of work and bother for a little authenticity.
Is it really worth all this trouble?

Use the tire as the fire ring....
Once it is hot enough, install.

There's a notion, but will that get it properly red hot?

On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 14:57:25 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

On 7/31/2010 1:58 PM, Cross-Slide wrote:
On Jul 31, 12:10 pm, "Lee wrote:
"J. wrote in message

...



Working on a decorative wagon wheel in wood, but I'd really like to put a
metal tire on it. Now, that's no trick if it's just for looks--make a
steel ring that's close enough to the dimension that a little epoxy under
it will hold it, but the devil in me wants to do a proper job and shrink
the thing.

Trouble is that this is a no-burn area so I can't just light a fire in the
back yard and heat the tire.

So, any ideas on how to go about this? The wheel is 2 feet in diameter,
making the tire too big to fit in a barbecue or the like. If I was making
a bunch of 'em I'd be tempted to just build a charcoal pit big enough and
call it a barbie, but that's a lot of work for one wheel.

And yeah, I know I can find a blacksmith, but I'm more interested in the
making than in having a wheel.

Well, you could get a big tank of propane and/or other gas and just heat up
the whole thing. I would think tha it would take a fair amount of gas and
time.

As for a charcol pit, that would probsbly work. How about just making a
circular pit? Dig a hole in the ground a bit bigger than the wheel, but
leave the middle intact. So you are just heating the steel itself and not a
big unrelated area.

This seems like a whole lot of work and bother for a little authenticity.
Is it really worth all this trouble?

Use the tire as the fire ring....
Once it is hot enough, install.

There's a notion, but will that get it properly red hot?

Sure, use a little LOX.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBLr_XrooLs

On 7/31/2010 1:32 PM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In , "J.
wrote:

On 7/31/2010 12:21 PM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In ,
Tim wrote:

On 07/31/2010 08:26 AM, RicodJour wrote:
On Jul 31, 10:24 am, "J. wrote:
On 7/31/2010 9:44 AM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:



In ,
"J. wrote:

Working on a decorative wagon wheel in wood, but I'd really like to
put
a metal tire on it. Now, that's no trick if it's just for looks--make
a
steel ring that's close enough to the dimension that a little epoxy
under it will hold it, but the devil in me wants to do a proper job
and
shrink the thing.

Trouble is that this is a no-burn area so I can't just light a fire in
the back yard and heat the tire.

So, any ideas on how to go about this? The wheel is 2 feet in
diameter,
making the tire too big to fit in a barbecue or the like. If I was
making a bunch of 'em I'd be tempted to just build a charcoal pit big
enough and call it a barbie, but that's a lot of work for one wheel.

And yeah, I know I can find a blacksmith, but I'm more interested in
the
making than in having a wheel.

A charcoal fire will do the trick, and most jurisdictions allow grills.
It's
the smoke they object to.

How big is the tire?

sigh Count up four paragraphs.

I counted up four paragraphs and it said some thing about finding a
blacksmith, but nothing about the size of the wheel.

How big is the wheel? {ducking}

"The wheel is 2 feet in diameter, making the tire too big to fit in a
barbecue or the like."

The diameter (2') is only one of the three needed numbers. What is
thickness
and width?

An inch wide, 3/16 thick.

Ahh. That's reasonably substantial. Thinner would be herder to keep hot using
a torch. I bet a propane weedburner would do the job, especially if the heat
were confined with some firebricks.

That's another good idea, appeals to the small boy in me, and is cheaper
than an oxyacetylene rig. So should I go for the 500,000 BTU Red
Dragon, the 100,000, whatever Home Despot has, or the 12.99 Harbor
Freight jobbie?

Wish I'd thought about using one of those when I was trying to get my
muffler off a while back, but I'd have probably just set the Jeep on fire.

On 7/31/2010 10:30 AM, Steve Lusardi wrote:
Simple, make the ring 1/8 small. Roll to shape and butt weld. Dress with
a grinder and heat with a rose bud acetylene torch . Set in place and
let it cool. No smoke, no noise and no problems.

Thinking on this yet more, any recommendation on a starter setup for
acetylene? Should I go with the Lincoln package that Lowes and Home
Despot and the like have, or find a welding store and ask for advice or
is there a standard first set that everbody has or what?

If I'm going to spend the money I may as well get set up with something
decent that can grow with me.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Working on a decorative wagon wheel in wood, but I'd really like to put
a metal tire on it. Now, that's no trick if it's just for looks--make a
steel ring that's close enough to the dimension that a little epoxy
under it will hold it, but the devil in me wants to do a proper job and
shrink the thing.

Trouble is that this is a no-burn area so I can't just light a fire in
the back yard and heat the tire.

So, any ideas on how to go about this? The wheel is 2 feet in diameter,
making the tire too big to fit in a barbecue or the like. If I was
making a bunch of 'em I'd be tempted to just build a charcoal pit big
enough and call it a barbie, but that's a lot of work for one wheel.

And yeah, I know I can find a blacksmith, but I'm more interested in the
making than in having a wheel.

There's no need to dig a pit. Just set the rim on the ground and raise it
up about an inch or two with rocks or anything that won't burn. Cover
the entire rim with charcoal and light it. There's no need for charcoal in
the center of the circle. It shouldn't burn with any more smoke than a
bbq. Raising the rim gives room for air to get to the charcoal under it
and will heat it better. Underhill, the Woodwright, did a show years
back on this very subject. The actual fitting required some fine adjustments
with a sledgehammer, and be sure to have plenty of buckets of water handy
for when the fitting is done.
Art

J. Clarke wrote:
On 7/31/2010 1:10 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:
"J. wrote in message
...
Working on a decorative wagon wheel in wood, but I'd really like to
put a
metal tire on it. Now, that's no trick if it's just for looks--make a
steel ring that's close enough to the dimension that a little epoxy
under
it will hold it, but the devil in me wants to do a proper job and shrink
the thing.

Trouble is that this is a no-burn area so I can't just light a fire
in the
back yard and heat the tire.

So, any ideas on how to go about this? The wheel is 2 feet in diameter,
making the tire too big to fit in a barbecue or the like. If I was
making
a bunch of 'em I'd be tempted to just build a charcoal pit big enough
and
call it a barbie, but that's a lot of work for one wheel.

And yeah, I know I can find a blacksmith, but I'm more interested in the
making than in having a wheel.

Well, you could get a big tank of propane and/or other gas and just
heat up
the whole thing. I would think tha it would take a fair amount of gas and
time.

As for a charcol pit, that would probsbly work. How about just making a
circular pit? Dig a hole in the ground a bit bigger than the wheel, but
leave the middle intact. So you are just heating the steel itself and
not a
big unrelated area.

This seems like a whole lot of work and bother for a little authenticity.
Is it really worth all this trouble?

It's about the journey, not the destination. I'd like to do it just so
I know I can.
Id go down the propane route.as follows by making a vertical furnace.
Get your weed killer big as you can afford.
use bricks to make 2 walls 2in apart by 2ft long by 2 ft tall. blockoff
one end and the top all bar say a 2in part.
put your iron wheel inside between the 2 walls.
In the opposite bottom corner leave a 2in gap. Light your propane burner
apply flame to bottom hole. Heat steadily for probably 30 mins till the
whole of the inside is red hot inc the iron wheel.
Have your wooden wheel supported flat on some bricks and your tongs at
the ready. Take out the redhot iron place on the wheel and hammer down.
Pour lots of cold water on it ant it will shrink up well.all youll get
is lot of steam.
hope this helps.
Ted
Dorset in UK.

On Jul 31, 9:06*am, "J. Clarke" wrote:
Working on a decorative wagon wheel in wood, but I'd really like to put
a metal tire on it. *Now, that's no trick if it's just for looks--make a
steel ring that's close enough to the dimension that a little epoxy
under it will hold it, but the devil in me wants to do a proper job and
shrink the thing.

Trouble is that this is a no-burn area so I can't just light a fire in
the back yard and heat the tire.

So, any ideas on how to go about this? *The wheel is 2 feet in diameter,
making the tire too big to fit in a barbecue or the like. *If I was
making a bunch of 'em I'd be tempted to just build a charcoal pit big
enough and call it a barbie, but that's a lot of work for one wheel.

And yeah, I know I can find a blacksmith, but I'm more interested in the
making than in having a wheel.

I've started searching YouTube directly. Google doesn't always find
pertinent videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjxWg...layer_embedded

R

Jim Wilkins wrote:
....

That's it! Just tell them you are resurrecting an ancient practice
that requires sacrificing a goat.

Not that ancient around here, it seems from the number entrails bags we
get in the fields and road ditches...

--

RicodJour wrote:
....
Or build a Morris Dovey solar collector and heat it up parabolically.
....

chuckle...

--

In article , "J. Clarke"
wrote:

On 7/31/2010 1:32 PM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In , "J.

wrote:

On 7/31/2010 12:21 PM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In ,
Tim wrote:

On 07/31/2010 08:26 AM, RicodJour wrote:
On Jul 31, 10:24 am, "J. wrote:
On 7/31/2010 9:44 AM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:



In ,
"J. wrote:

Working on a decorative wagon wheel in wood, but I'd really like to
put
a metal tire on it. Now, that's no trick if it's just for
looks--make
a
steel ring that's close enough to the dimension that a little epoxy
under it will hold it, but the devil in me wants to do a proper job
and
shrink the thing.

Trouble is that this is a no-burn area so I can't just light a fire
in
the back yard and heat the tire.

So, any ideas on how to go about this? The wheel is 2 feet in
diameter,
making the tire too big to fit in a barbecue or the like. If I was
making a bunch of 'em I'd be tempted to just build a charcoal pit
big
enough and call it a barbie, but that's a lot of work for one wheel.

And yeah, I know I can find a blacksmith, but I'm more interested in
the
making than in having a wheel.

A charcoal fire will do the trick, and most jurisdictions allow
grills.
It's
the smoke they object to.

How big is the tire?

sigh Count up four paragraphs.

I counted up four paragraphs and it said some thing about finding a
blacksmith, but nothing about the size of the wheel.

How big is the wheel? {ducking}

"The wheel is 2 feet in diameter, making the tire too big to fit in a
barbecue or the like."

The diameter (2') is only one of the three needed numbers. What is
thickness
and width?

An inch wide, 3/16 thick.

Ahh. That's reasonably substantial. Thinner would be harder to keep hot
using a torch. I bet a propane weedburner would do the job, especially if the
heat were confined with some firebricks.

That's another good idea, appeals to the small boy in me, and is cheaper
than an oxyacetylene rig.

Also, the heat content of acetylene is far less than that of propane, so propane
is better for bulk heating. I learned this from a book on brazing and silver
soldering. The author is a UK model builder, and he makes silver-soldered brass
boilers for model steam engines.


So should I go for the 500,000 BTU Red
Dragon, the 100,000, whatever Home Despot has, or the 12.99 Harbor
Freight jobbie?

I have a Home Despot weedburner, and while it does work, it is awkward to use
because it lacks a built-in lighter, so you cannot turn it on and off so easily.
An ordinary spark lighter didn't work, and I ended up using a small propane
torch as a lighter. Clumsy. So, I would recommend getting a unit with built in
lighter. I'll probably buy one someday.

I have no experience with the HF unit.

I would think that 100,000 BTU/hr is enough, but you will need the firebricks to
make a simple muffle to contain and focus the heat.

If you can manage the charcoal ring fire, that may be easier. Use the
weedburner to light the charcoal. Firebricks are still useful. Or half-bricks.


For doing hot work on my wooden workbench, I went down to a local brickyard and
bought $35 worth of ordinary firebricks and half-bricks. (Have the shape and
density of an ordinary red brick, but are yellow; used to line fireplaces.)
When I need to do some hot work, I make a cleverly arranged pile of bricks on
the bench and get to work. With a muffle, I can easily get small objects up to
a bright orange heat. After it all cools, the bricks go back to their storage
pile. The only scorch marks on the bench are where I didn't pile enough bricks
in place, and some flame spilled over the edge and impinged on the wood. The
backside of a full brick does not get hot enough to be a problem.


Wish I'd thought about using one of those when I was trying to get my
muffler off a while back, but I'd have probably just set the Jeep on fire.

Unh. Too much of a good thing.

For a muffler, I would guess that an air-acetylene turbotorch would work. Or
air-propane turbotorch. But I've never had to use a torch on a muffler. It was
cheaper in time to simply cut the entire old exhaust system off right up to the
cast iron manifold using a cold chisel, and replace all that rusty tin. At
least on the Volvos of the day, with care you could perhaps save the long pipe
(which ran the hottest and so corroded the least), but it was not worth the
trouble.

Joe Gwinn

On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 09:06:16 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

Working on a decorative wagon wheel in wood, but I'd really like to put
a metal tire on it. Now, that's no trick if it's just for looks--make a
steel ring that's close enough to the dimension that a little epoxy
under it will hold it, but the devil in me wants to do a proper job and
shrink the thing.

Trouble is that this is a no-burn area so I can't just light a fire in
the back yard and heat the tire.

So, any ideas on how to go about this? The wheel is 2 feet in diameter,
making the tire too big to fit in a barbecue or the like. If I was
making a bunch of 'em I'd be tempted to just build a charcoal pit big
enough and call it a barbie, but that's a lot of work for one wheel.

And yeah, I know I can find a blacksmith, but I'm more interested in the
making than in having a wheel.


Got a good rosebud for your torch?

Gunner


"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9

On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 15:32:44 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

On 7/31/2010 10:30 AM, Steve Lusardi wrote:
Simple, make the ring 1/8 small. Roll to shape and butt weld. Dress with
a grinder and heat with a rose bud acetylene torch . Set in place and
let it cool. No smoke, no noise and no problems.

Thinking on this yet more, any recommendation on a starter setup for
acetylene? Should I go with the Lincoln package that Lowes and Home
Despot and the like have, or find a welding store and ask for advice or
is there a standard first set that everbody has or what?

If I'm going to spend the money I may as well get set up with something
decent that can grow with me.

Check your local Craigslist or put on an add for a torch, tips, ROSEBUD
and gauges.

Most of the sets Ive found here in California are the tiny a/c service
bottles. Get the biggest set of bottles (and cart) you can find.

Gunner


"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9

On 7/31/2010 4:09 PM, Artemus wrote:
"J. wrote in message
...
Working on a decorative wagon wheel in wood, but I'd really like to put
a metal tire on it. Now, that's no trick if it's just for looks--make a
steel ring that's close enough to the dimension that a little epoxy
under it will hold it, but the devil in me wants to do a proper job and
shrink the thing.

Trouble is that this is a no-burn area so I can't just light a fire in
the back yard and heat the tire.

So, any ideas on how to go about this? The wheel is 2 feet in diameter,
making the tire too big to fit in a barbecue or the like. If I was
making a bunch of 'em I'd be tempted to just build a charcoal pit big
enough and call it a barbie, but that's a lot of work for one wheel.

And yeah, I know I can find a blacksmith, but I'm more interested in the
making than in having a wheel.

There's no need to dig a pit. Just set the rim on the ground and raise it
up about an inch or two with rocks or anything that won't burn. Cover
the entire rim with charcoal and light it. There's no need for charcoal in
the center of the circle. It shouldn't burn with any more smoke than a
bbq.

It's a no burn ordinance, not a no smoke ordinance. It's the fire not
in a fireproof container that's the issue, not the smoke.

Raising the rim gives room for air to get to the charcoal under it
and will heat it better. Underhill, the Woodwright, did a show years
back on this very subject. The actual fitting required some fine adjustments
with a sledgehammer, and be sure to have plenty of buckets of water handy
for when the fitting is done.
Art

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
On 7/31/2010 10:30 AM, Steve Lusardi wrote:
Simple, make the ring 1/8 small. Roll to shape and butt weld. Dress with
a grinder and heat with a rose bud acetylene torch . Set in place and
let it cool. No smoke, no noise and no problems.

Thinking on this yet more, any recommendation on a starter setup for
acetylene? Should I go with the Lincoln package that Lowes and Home
Despot and the like have, or find a welding store and ask for advice or is
there a standard first set that everbody has or what?

If I'm going to spend the money I may as well get set up with something
decent that can grow with me.

I used to make gym equipment and used acetylene to cut things. When I wanted
to heat something up to bend it I used propane. Now if you have other uses
for it, OK. But if this is the only thing you are going to do with it,
consider propane.

The welding rigs you get at the big box stores are cheapened to specs by the
stores. They wanted to sell something at a particular price point. The stuff
you buy at a real welding store is much better quality. Of course, you pay
for that quality.

I would, at the very least, go to a welding store or two and talk to them.
They are far more knowledgable and can steer you in the right direction.

Another thing to consider, the cost of tanks. Each area has their own
particular laws concerning tanks. Where I am, you cannot own them. You must
rent them. And they can only be transported in an upright position in a
secure carrier of some kind. There may be restrictions on even having tanks
at home. And if you do, you may need to post signs and notify the fire
department. Again, each area is different. This is another reason to talk to
the local welding store. They know all the regulations for the local area.
They need to if they want a viable business.

In article , "J. Clarke"
wrote:

On 7/31/2010 4:09 PM, Artemus wrote:
"J. wrote in message
...
Working on a decorative wagon wheel in wood, but I'd really like to put
a metal tire on it. Now, that's no trick if it's just for looks--make a
steel ring that's close enough to the dimension that a little epoxy
under it will hold it, but the devil in me wants to do a proper job and
shrink the thing.

Trouble is that this is a no-burn area so I can't just light a fire in
the back yard and heat the tire.

So, any ideas on how to go about this? The wheel is 2 feet in diameter,
making the tire too big to fit in a barbecue or the like. If I was
making a bunch of 'em I'd be tempted to just build a charcoal pit big
enough and call it a barbie, but that's a lot of work for one wheel.

And yeah, I know I can find a blacksmith, but I'm more interested in the
making than in having a wheel.

There's no need to dig a pit. Just set the rim on the ground and raise it
up about an inch or two with rocks or anything that won't burn. Cover
the entire rim with charcoal and light it. There's no need for charcoal in
the center of the circle. It shouldn't burn with any more smoke than a
bbq.

It's a no burn ordinance, not a no smoke ordinance. It's the fire not
in a fireproof container that's the issue, not the smoke.

A ring of firebrick laying on the ground is by definition a fireproof container.
That's what firebrick is made for. So would a sheet of steel qualify.

I would get a copy of the actual ordinance and see what it *really* requires.

Joe Gwinn

On 7/31/2010 6:00 PM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In , "J.
wrote:

On 7/31/2010 4:09 PM, Artemus wrote:
"J. wrote in message
...
Working on a decorative wagon wheel in wood, but I'd really like to put
a metal tire on it. Now, that's no trick if it's just for looks--make a
steel ring that's close enough to the dimension that a little epoxy
under it will hold it, but the devil in me wants to do a proper job and
shrink the thing.

Trouble is that this is a no-burn area so I can't just light a fire in
the back yard and heat the tire.

So, any ideas on how to go about this? The wheel is 2 feet in diameter,
making the tire too big to fit in a barbecue or the like. If I was
making a bunch of 'em I'd be tempted to just build a charcoal pit big
enough and call it a barbie, but that's a lot of work for one wheel.

And yeah, I know I can find a blacksmith, but I'm more interested in the
making than in having a wheel.

There's no need to dig a pit. Just set the rim on the ground and raise it
up about an inch or two with rocks or anything that won't burn. Cover
the entire rim with charcoal and light it. There's no need for charcoal in
the center of the circle. It shouldn't burn with any more smoke than a
bbq.

It's a no burn ordinance, not a no smoke ordinance. It's the fire not
in a fireproof container that's the issue, not the smoke.

A ring of firebrick laying on the ground is by definition a fireproof container.
That's what firebrick is made for. So would a sheet of steel qualify.

I would get a copy of the actual ordinance and see what it *really* requires.

And that is more effort than I want to go through for this project.
This is supposed to be recreation.

On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 09:14:13 -0700, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On 07/31/2010 08:26 AM, RicodJour wrote:
On Jul 31, 10:24 am, "J. wrote:
On 7/31/2010 9:44 AM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:



In ,
"J. wrote:

Working on a decorative wagon wheel in wood, but I'd really like to put
a metal tire on it. Now, that's no trick if it's just for looks--make a
steel ring that's close enough to the dimension that a little epoxy
under it will hold it, but the devil in me wants to do a proper job and
shrink the thing.

Trouble is that this is a no-burn area so I can't just light a fire in
the back yard and heat the tire.

So, any ideas on how to go about this? The wheel is 2 feet in diameter,
making the tire too big to fit in a barbecue or the like. If I was
making a bunch of 'em I'd be tempted to just build a charcoal pit big
enough and call it a barbie, but that's a lot of work for one wheel.

And yeah, I know I can find a blacksmith, but I'm more interested in the
making than in having a wheel.

A charcoal fire will do the trick, and most jurisdictions allow grills. It's
the smoke they object to.

How big is the tire?

sigh Count up four paragraphs.

I counted up four paragraphs and it said some thing about finding a
blacksmith, but nothing about the size of the wheel.

How big is the wheel? {ducking}

"The wheel is 2 feet in diameter, making the tire too big to fit in a
barbecue or the like."

How about one of these.

http://www.harborfreight.com/lawn-ga...rch-91033.html

Mark

On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 18:00:14 -0400, Joseph Gwinn wrote:

In article , "J. Clarke"
wrote:

On 7/31/2010 4:09 PM, Artemus wrote:
"J. wrote in message
...
Working on a decorative wagon wheel in wood, but I'd really like to put
a metal tire on it. Now, that's no trick if it's just for looks--make a
steel ring that's close enough to the dimension that a little epoxy
under it will hold it, but the devil in me wants to do a proper job and
shrink the thing.

Trouble is that this is a no-burn area so I can't just light a fire in
the back yard and heat the tire.

So, any ideas on how to go about this? The wheel is 2 feet in diameter,
making the tire too big to fit in a barbecue or the like. If I was
making a bunch of 'em I'd be tempted to just build a charcoal pit big
enough and call it a barbie, but that's a lot of work for one wheel.

And yeah, I know I can find a blacksmith, but I'm more interested in the
making than in having a wheel.

There's no need to dig a pit. Just set the rim on the ground and raise it
up about an inch or two with rocks or anything that won't burn. Cover
the entire rim with charcoal and light it. There's no need for charcoal in
the center of the circle. It shouldn't burn with any more smoke than a
bbq.

It's a no burn ordinance, not a no smoke ordinance. It's the fire not
in a fireproof container that's the issue, not the smoke.

A ring of firebrick laying on the ground is by definition a fireproof container.
That's what firebrick is made for. So would a sheet of steel qualify.

I would get a copy of the actual ordinance and see what it *really* requires.

They're probably concerned about sparks flying, catching the rest of the state
on fire.

How hot does it have to be?

The coefficient of thermal expansion for steel is 0.00000645in/in/deg F.

75 inches x 0.00000645 = 0.00048375 PER DEGREE INCREASE.

So, how much fit do you need?