If you heat it up, and then slide it onto the wooden wheel. Won't that
char the wheel some?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
On 7/31/2010 12:21 PM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:


The diameter (2') is only one of the three needed numbers. What is
thickness
and width?

An inch wide, 3/16 thick.

Six guys with six torches? When I was more actively doing HVAC. The
boss and I would chit chat while we used two torches and two rolls of
solder to assemble 1 1/4 copper pipe for boiler heat systems.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"J. Clarke"
wrote in message ...

Can the whole two foot diameter wheel be brought to temperature at
once
with a rose bud torch?

Thinking about it, this is probably the way to go. Push me off center
to get an oxyacetylene rig.

cavelamb fired this volley in
m:

So, how much fit do you need?

Well, it ain't much, really. If you heated it up 500F, you'd get a 1/4"
(roughly) circumferential expansion, which would be 1/4 over pi inches in
diameter, or roughly a bit more than 1/16" diametral expansion.

That's enough, I'd say, to get it over a well-sized wheel. If not - if
you wanted to pull the wheel together tighter than you built it - heat it
up 1000F for an 1/8" increase.

On a wooden wheel, what you really need to do is make sure it will shrink
down further than the amount it burns away the wood before it's below
450F. That's more dependent upon the skill of the wheelwright in
mounting and chilling the tire than it is upon the actual temperature to
which it's heated.

LLoyd

"J. Clarke" wrote in
:


No. 21 wide by 17 deep. There's also the question of whether it gets
hot enough for good take-up. The tire doesn't just have to fit, it
has to be a little undersized when cold so that it loads the wooden
parts in compression--that's where the strength of the wheel comes
from. 500F will give about a quarter inch of expansion with low
carbon steel, red heat will give close to a half inch. The various
1800s and early 1900s blacksmithing journals suggest that the iron in
use at the time would expand more than this.

By the way, the large pizza from the big chains is 14-15 inch, the
independents may go 18.


You've got 27" to work with if you put it in diagonally. There's a third
dimension to be concerned about, but it's faster to try it than to work
on all the calculations.

It doesn't matter if your oven tops out before the wheel has expanded
enough, though. (But you knew this.)

Puckdropper
--
Never teach your apprentice everything you know.

"Stormin Mormon" fired this volley in
:

If you heat it up, and then slide it onto the wooden wheel. Won't that
char the wheel some?

It does, indeed. The "art" is in having it char away less wood than the
amount it will shrink after cooling. There are ways.

LLoyd

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...

The diameter (2') is only one of the three needed numbers. What is
thickness
and width?

Joe Gwinn



In the time it has taken to discuss this, I would have dug a shallow hole,
filled it with charcoal and done it. This is a classic case of
overcomplicating things.

On 7/31/2010 9:58 PM, CW wrote:
"Joseph wrote in message
...

The diameter (2') is only one of the three needed numbers. What is
thickness
and width?

Joe Gwinn



In the time it has taken to discuss this, I would have dug a shallow hole,
filled it with charcoal and done it. This is a classic case of
overcomplicating things.

Not an option. If it was I would already have done it.

I'm with you on the ring. Should be real if possible.

How about a ring of charcoal brickets like used for the Bar-B-Que fires.
Maybe a small hill in the center of the main ring circle.

lay out the ring on the ground - make a row inside and outside - then
crunch them together, run a line of fire starter if you don't use auto-start ones.

So no real fire, just some bricks - and you can hose them down after wards.

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
"Our Republic and the Press will Rise or Fall Together": Joseph Pulitzer
TSRA: Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Originator & Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/

On 7/31/2010 8:06 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
Working on a decorative wagon wheel in wood, but I'd really like to put a metal
tire on it. Now, that's no trick if it's just for looks--make a steel ring
that's close enough to the dimension that a little epoxy under it will hold it,
but the devil in me wants to do a proper job and shrink the thing.

Trouble is that this is a no-burn area so I can't just light a fire in the back
yard and heat the tire.

So, any ideas on how to go about this? The wheel is 2 feet in diameter, making
the tire too big to fit in a barbecue or the like. If I was making a bunch of
'em I'd be tempted to just build a charcoal pit big enough and call it a barbie,
but that's a lot of work for one wheel.

And yeah, I know I can find a blacksmith, but I'm more interested in the making
than in having a wheel.

On 7/31/2010 9:28 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
"J. wrote in
:


No. 21 wide by 17 deep. There's also the question of whether it gets
hot enough for good take-up. The tire doesn't just have to fit, it
has to be a little undersized when cold so that it loads the wooden
parts in compression--that's where the strength of the wheel comes
from. 500F will give about a quarter inch of expansion with low
carbon steel, red heat will give close to a half inch. The various
1800s and early 1900s blacksmithing journals suggest that the iron in
use at the time would expand more than this.

By the way, the large pizza from the big chains is 14-15 inch, the
independents may go 18.


You've got 27" to work with if you put it in diagonally.

How do you figure? If I tilt it up front to back then I've only got the
21 width. If I tilt it side to side then I've only got the 17 depth.

There's a third
dimension to be concerned about, but it's faster to try it than to work
on all the calculations.

It doesn't matter if your oven tops out before the wheel has expanded
enough, though. (But you knew this.)

Puckdropper

On 7/31/2010 9:01 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Six guys with six torches? When I was more actively doing HVAC. The
boss and I would chit chat while we used two torches and two rolls of
solder to assemble 1 1/4 copper pipe for boiler heat systems.

Looking at this further, I may need a bigger tank than I'd want to
handle to get this whole thing to red heat with oxyacetylene. Mongo
weed burner is looking like the right tool.

On Jul 31, 10:24*pm, "J. Clarke" wrote:
On 7/31/2010 9:58 PM, CW wrote:

In the time it has taken to discuss this, I would have dug a shallow hole,
filled it with charcoal and done it. This is a classic case of
overcomplicating things.

Not an option. *If it was I would already have done it.

I don't understand something about this no-fire regulation. Where
exactly is it that you can't have a BBQ? Seems outlandish.

R

J. Clarke wrote:
On 7/31/2010 9:01 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Six guys with six torches? When I was more actively doing HVAC. The
boss and I would chit chat while we used two torches and two rolls of
solder to assemble 1 1/4 copper pipe for boiler heat systems.

Looking at this further, I may need a bigger tank than I'd want to
handle to get this whole thing to red heat with oxyacetylene. Mongo
weed burner is looking like the right tool.



Or maybe two of them.
One on each side would sure make for a quicker job.

--

Richard Lamb

On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 21:39:49 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
wrote:

On Jul 31, 10:24*pm, "J. Clarke" wrote:
On 7/31/2010 9:58 PM, CW wrote:

In the time it has taken to discuss this, I would have dug a shallow hole,
filled it with charcoal and done it. This is a classic case of
overcomplicating things.

Not an option. *If it was I would already have done it.

I don't understand something about this no-fire regulation. Where
exactly is it that you can't have a BBQ? Seems outlandish.

A *lot* of places have no *open* fire regulations, at least part of the time.
There are "Red Flag" warnings issued here on dry days (quite often in the
Winter). Some areas require a "burn permit" for an open fire.

CW wrote:

In the time it has taken to discuss this, I would have dug a shallow hole,
filled it with charcoal and done it. This is a classic case of
overcomplicating things.

But then I wouldn't have known the history of the wheelwright, would not
have watched LOX light a charcoal grill, would not have seen what
happens when a bowl of Liquid Nitrogen is dumped in a swimming pool
(spin off of the LOX) would not have known HF sells a propane weed
burner for $12.

On the other hand, if it were me, I would have likely screwed up a wheel
or two before asking, and another after asking before realizing there is
more toit than meets the eye...

--
Jack
Conservatives believe every day is the Fourth of July, Liberals believe
every day is April 15.
http://jbstein.com

J. Clarke wrote:
On 7/31/2010 6:00 PM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In , "J.

wrote:

On 7/31/2010 4:09 PM, Artemus wrote:
"J. wrote in message
...
Working on a decorative wagon wheel in wood, but I'd really like to
put
a metal tire on it. Now, that's no trick if it's just for
looks--make a
steel ring that's close enough to the dimension that a little epoxy
under it will hold it, but the devil in me wants to do a proper job
and
shrink the thing.

Trouble is that this is a no-burn area so I can't just light a fire in
the back yard and heat the tire.

So, any ideas on how to go about this? The wheel is 2 feet in
diameter,
making the tire too big to fit in a barbecue or the like. If I was
making a bunch of 'em I'd be tempted to just build a charcoal pit big
enough and call it a barbie, but that's a lot of work for one wheel.

And yeah, I know I can find a blacksmith, but I'm more interested
in the
making than in having a wheel.


You should talk to one of the local Amish smiths. In this area they are
using a neat wheel. They look like the standard wood/steel construction.
BUT they actually have a wood center/spokes/rim, Then they have a layer
of rubber glued to that and a steel ring around all of it. The rubber
gives a better ride and seems to lower the wear on the steel as well.

--
Steve W.

"Steve W." wrote in message
...



You should talk to one of the local Amish smiths. In this area they are
using a neat wheel. They look like the standard wood/steel construction.
BUT they actually have a wood center/spokes/rim, Then they have a layer
of rubber glued to that and a steel ring around all of it. The rubber
gives a better ride and seems to lower the wear on the steel as well.

--
Steve W.

Sounds a bit fancy and prideful to me...

"J. Clarke" wrote in news:i32np002bm0
@news6.newsguy.com:


You've got 27" to work with if you put it in diagonally.

How do you figure? If I tilt it up front to back then I've only got the
21 width. If I tilt it side to side then I've only got the 17 depth.

Pythagorean theorem. This only would work if you've got enough height to
stand the wheel vertically across the oven.

Puckdropper
--
Never teach your apprentice everything you know.

On 8/1/2010 2:09 PM, Steve W. wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
On 7/31/2010 6:00 PM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In , "J.

wrote:

On 7/31/2010 4:09 PM, Artemus wrote:
"J. wrote in message
...
Working on a decorative wagon wheel in wood, but I'd really like to
put
a metal tire on it. Now, that's no trick if it's just for
looks--make a
steel ring that's close enough to the dimension that a little epoxy
under it will hold it, but the devil in me wants to do a proper job
and
shrink the thing.

Trouble is that this is a no-burn area so I can't just light a fire in
the back yard and heat the tire.

So, any ideas on how to go about this? The wheel is 2 feet in
diameter,
making the tire too big to fit in a barbecue or the like. If I was
making a bunch of 'em I'd be tempted to just build a charcoal pit big
enough and call it a barbie, but that's a lot of work for one wheel.

And yeah, I know I can find a blacksmith, but I'm more interested
in the
making than in having a wheel.


You should talk to one of the local Amish smiths.

The nearest Amish smith to here is about 250 miles away and I have to
drive through NYC to get there.

In this area they are
using a neat wheel. They look like the standard wood/steel construction.
BUT they actually have a wood center/spokes/rim, Then they have a layer
of rubber glued to that and a steel ring around all of it. The rubber
gives a better ride and seems to lower the wear on the steel as well.

The layer of rubber is a thought.

J. Clarke wrote:

It's a no burn ordinance, not a no smoke ordinance. It's the fire not
in a fireproof container that's the issue, not the smoke.


So put the wheel, tire, a bag of charcoal, some matches, a few tools, and
firebrick in your car and drive down the road to somewhere that's not so
anal.

How hard could that be?

On 8/1/2010 10:30 PM, HeyBub wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:

It's a no burn ordinance, not a no smoke ordinance. It's the fire not
in a fireproof container that's the issue, not the smoke.


So put the wheel, tire, a bag of charcoal, some matches, a few tools, and
firebrick in your car and drive down the road to somewhere that's not so
anal.

How hard could that be?

That would likely be in another state.

In article ,
Jack Stein wrote:
CW wrote:

In the time it has taken to discuss this, I would have dug a shallow hole,
filled it with charcoal and done it. This is a classic case of
overcomplicating things.

But then I wouldn't have known the history of the wheelwright, would not
have watched LOX light a charcoal grill, would not have seen what
happens when a bowl of Liquid Nitrogen is dumped in a swimming pool
(spin off of the LOX) would not have known HF sells a propane weed
burner for $12.

On the other hand, if it were me, I would have likely screwed up a wheel
or two before asking, and another after asking before realizing there is
more toit than meets the eye...

of course there is, this is the *very* special case of a _round_ toit.

In article ,
cavelamb wrote:
How hot does it have to be?

The coefficient of thermal expansion for steel is 0.00000645in/in/deg F.

75 inches x 0.00000645 = 0.00048375 PER DEGREE INCREASE.

So, how much fit do you need?

Calculating the change in circumference is the 'hard way' to get the answer.

A 'hole' in a piece of 'something'(anything) expands at the *exactly* the
same rate as the material surrounding it.

So, the diameter will increase by 24*.00000645 inches per degree or,
..00015480 in/degree.

Assuming 70f ambient. heating to 500F gets 0.0665+" on the diameter, which
is almost exactly 1/15th of an inch. heating to 1000F gets 0.1439+" just over
1/7".

The tricky part is manhandling the two parts so the surfaces stay "parallel"
from inner side to outer side, and getting things in place before the tire
cools appreciably.

I'd be tempted to 'cheat', and subject the wooden wheel to a dry ice (or
similar) treatment, to -shrink- it as much as possible.

Also get the wood as _dry_ as possible before mounting the tire, and then
let it absorb moisture back to 'normal' level. every little bit helps.

In article ,
J. Clarke wrote:
On 7/31/2010 10:13 AM, Larry W wrote:
In ,
J. wrote:
Working on a decorative wagon wheel in wood, but I'd really like to put
a metal tire on it. Now, that's no trick if it's just for looks--make a
steel ring that's close enough to the dimension that a little epoxy
under it will hold it, but the devil in me wants to do a proper job and
shrink the thing.

Trouble is that this is a no-burn area so I can't just light a fire in
the back yard and heat the tire.

So, any ideas on how to go about this? The wheel is 2 feet in diameter,
making the tire too big to fit in a barbecue or the like. If I was
making a bunch of 'em I'd be tempted to just build a charcoal pit big
enough and call it a barbie, but that's a lot of work for one wheel.

And yeah, I know I can find a blacksmith, but I'm more interested in the
making than in having a wheel.

2 feet in diameter is about the size of a large pizza. Will it fit
in your oven?

No. 21 wide by 17 deep. There's also the question of whether it gets
hot enough for good take-up. The tire doesn't just have to fit, it has
to be a little undersized when cold so that it loads the wooden parts in
compression--that's where the strength of the wheel comes from. 500F
will give about a quarter inch of expansion with low carbon steel, red
heat will give close to a half inch. The various 1800s and early 1900s
blacksmithing journals suggest that the iron in use at the time would
expand more than this.

By the way, the large pizza from the big chains is 14-15 inch, the
independents may go 18.

Yeahbut applies. a standard commercial pizza oven holds typically
*six* minimum (16-18") and will hit into the 8-900F range if pushed.

Now, arranging to "borrow' a pizza place's oven, *that's* a whole nuther
level of complexity. grin

Similarly, it'd take a *really* big ceramics kiln to fit that tire in.

In article ,
J. Clarke wrote:
On 7/31/2010 4:09 PM, Artemus wrote:
"J. wrote in message
...
Working on a decorative wagon wheel in wood, but I'd really like to put
a metal tire on it. Now, that's no trick if it's just for looks--make a
steel ring that's close enough to the dimension that a little epoxy
under it will hold it, but the devil in me wants to do a proper job and
shrink the thing.

Trouble is that this is a no-burn area so I can't just light a fire in
the back yard and heat the tire.

So, any ideas on how to go about this? The wheel is 2 feet in diameter,
making the tire too big to fit in a barbecue or the like. If I was
making a bunch of 'em I'd be tempted to just build a charcoal pit big
enough and call it a barbie, but that's a lot of work for one wheel.

And yeah, I know I can find a blacksmith, but I'm more interested in the
making than in having a wheel.

There's no need to dig a pit. Just set the rim on the ground and raise it
up about an inch or two with rocks or anything that won't burn. Cover
the entire rim with charcoal and light it. There's no need for charcoal in
the center of the circle. It shouldn't burn with any more smoke than a
bbq.

It's a no burn ordinance, not a no smoke ordinance. It's the fire not
in a fireproof container that's the issue, not the smoke.

AH! if -that's- all. get some roofing 'gutter'. the galvanized variety.
tack pieces together to approximate a circle of the right diameter.

Add tire, charcoal, and torch it.

"Ve haf vays to make you tok."

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
"Stormin Mormon" fired this volley
in
:

If you heat it up, and then slide it onto the wooden wheel. Won't
that
char the wheel some?

It does, indeed. The "art" is in having it char away less wood than
the
amount it will shrink after cooling. There are ways.

LLoyd

On Aug 2, 3:58*am, (Robert Bonomi) wrote:
In article ,

By the way, the large pizza from the big chains is 14-15 inch, the
independents may go 18.

Yeahbut applies. *a standard commercial pizza oven holds typically
*six* minimum (16-18") and will hit into the 8-900F range if pushed.

Now, arranging to "borrow' a pizza place's oven, *that's* a whole nuther
level of complexity. *grin

Not at all. Stick a flat metal circle on it, tell the pizza guy that
you'll pay him $20 to test out your new invention - The Pizza Magic
Oven Ring. Then after the 'test', grab the thing, run outside and
start pounding the wheel together in his parking lot.

R

"Robert Bonomi" wrote in message
news
In article ,
Jack Stein wrote:
CW wrote:

In the time it has taken to discuss this, I would have dug a shallow
hole,
filled it with charcoal and done it. This is a classic case of
overcomplicating things.

But then I wouldn't have known the history of the wheelwright, would not
have watched LOX light a charcoal grill, would not have seen what
happens when a bowl of Liquid Nitrogen is dumped in a swimming pool
(spin off of the LOX) would not have known HF sells a propane weed
burner for $12.

I've seen Barbecuing with Liquid Oxygen. Where's the liquid nitrogen one?

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

In article unications,
Robert Bonomi wrote:
In article ,
Jack Stein wrote:
CW wrote:

In the time it has taken to discuss this, I would have dug a shallow hole,
filled it with charcoal and done it. This is a classic case of
overcomplicating things.

But then I wouldn't have known the history of the wheelwright, would not
have watched LOX light a charcoal grill, would not have seen what
happens when a bowl of Liquid Nitrogen is dumped in a swimming pool
(spin off of the LOX) would not have known HF sells a propane weed
burner for $12.

On the other hand, if it were me, I would have likely screwed up a wheel
or two before asking, and another after asking before realizing there is
more toit than meets the eye...

of course there is, this is the *very* special case of a _round_ toit.

Hey, by the way, HF sells a decorative wagon wheel, too! Problem solved!

--
Better to be stuck up in a tree than tied to one.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org

Steve B wrote:

Jack Stein wrote:
But then I wouldn't have known the history of the wheelwright, would not
have watched LOX light a charcoal grill, would not have seen what
happens when a bowl of Liquid Nitrogen is dumped in a swimming pool
(spin off of the LOX) would not have known HF sells a propane weed
burner for $12.

I've seen Barbecuing with Liquid Oxygen. Where's the liquid nitrogen one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2mj-Sq2oeo&NR=1

--
Jack
Got Change: Now CHANGE IT BACK!
http://jbstein.com

Robert Bonomi wrote:

In article ,
J. Clarke wrote:
On 7/31/2010 10:13 AM, Larry W wrote:
In ,
J. wrote:
Working on a decorative wagon wheel in wood, but I'd really like to put
a metal tire on it. Now, that's no trick if it's just for looks--make a
steel ring that's close enough to the dimension that a little epoxy
under it will hold it, but the devil in me wants to do a proper job and
shrink the thing.

Trouble is that this is a no-burn area so I can't just light a fire in
the back yard and heat the tire.

So, any ideas on how to go about this? The wheel is 2 feet in diameter,
making the tire too big to fit in a barbecue or the like. If I was
making a bunch of 'em I'd be tempted to just build a charcoal pit big
enough and call it a barbie, but that's a lot of work for one wheel.

And yeah, I know I can find a blacksmith, but I'm more interested in the
making than in having a wheel.

2 feet in diameter is about the size of a large pizza. Will it fit
in your oven?

No. 21 wide by 17 deep. There's also the question of whether it gets
hot enough for good take-up. The tire doesn't just have to fit, it has
to be a little undersized when cold so that it loads the wooden parts in
compression--that's where the strength of the wheel comes from. 500F
will give about a quarter inch of expansion with low carbon steel, red
heat will give close to a half inch. The various 1800s and early 1900s
blacksmithing journals suggest that the iron in use at the time would
expand more than this.

By the way, the large pizza from the big chains is 14-15 inch, the
independents may go 18.


Cassano's used to sell a 40" party pizza, but you had to order it
three days before the party. The price was about $30, 25 years ago. I
always wanted to see how much I could eat, in one try. When I was in my
20s, we used to have pizza eating contests. We had a half hour for
lunch, which gave us 20 minutes to eat. I could put away one and a half
18" thick crust pizza and two large glasses of Pepsi. I weighted 175
pounds. The only one in the group who ever beat me weighed close to 400
pounds.

http://cassanos.com/


Yeahbut applies. a standard commercial pizza oven holds typically
*six* minimum (16-18") and will hit into the 8-900F range if pushed.


A lot of places use belt drive ovens these days. They look like
early hot air reflow soldering machines.


Now, arranging to "borrow' a pizza place's oven, *that's* a whole nuther
level of complexity. grin

Similarly, it'd take a *really* big ceramics kiln to fit that tire in.

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Now, arranging to "borrow' a pizza place's oven, *that's* a whole
nuther level of complexity. grin

Similarly, it'd take a *really* big ceramics kiln to fit that tire
in.

nah, that's a pretty average one. mine will take a 21" round with about 1/2"
to spare on the sides.

you might call around to some ceramic or glass artists, a ceramic supply
store, or one of those paint on ceramics mall places, to 'borrow' some heat
for a while. the charge for a firing would be only a few dollars.

regards,
charlie
http://www.glassartists.org/ChaniArts

ATP wrote:

"Steve W." wrote in message
...

You should talk to one of the local Amish smiths. In this area they are
using a neat wheel. They look like the standard wood/steel construction.
BUT they actually have a wood center/spokes/rim, Then they have a layer
of rubber glued to that and a steel ring around all of it. The rubber
gives a better ride and seems to lower the wear on the steel as well.

Sounds a bit fancy and prideful to me...


Why? It sounds like less labor, for a longer useful life.

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...

ATP wrote:

"Steve W." wrote in message
...

You should talk to one of the local Amish smiths. In this area they are
using a neat wheel. They look like the standard wood/steel
construction.
BUT they actually have a wood center/spokes/rim, Then they have a layer
of rubber glued to that and a steel ring around all of it. The rubber
gives a better ride and seems to lower the wear on the steel as well.

Sounds a bit fancy and prideful to me...


Why? It sounds like less labor, for a longer useful life.

I'm kidding, but the Amish have an unusual take on things. I guess rubber
under the steel is OK, but rubber tires would be unholy. But whatever
they're doing seems to be working for them. I wonder if they're still busy
making those stoves...

On 8/4/2010 4:44 PM, ATP wrote:
"Michael A. wrote in message
m...

ATP wrote:

"Steve wrote in message
...

You should talk to one of the local Amish smiths. In this area they are
using a neat wheel. They look like the standard wood/steel
construction.
BUT they actually have a wood center/spokes/rim, Then they have a layer
of rubber glued to that and a steel ring around all of it. The rubber
gives a better ride and seems to lower the wear on the steel as well.

Sounds a bit fancy and prideful to me...


Why? It sounds like less labor, for a longer useful life.

I'm kidding, but the Amish have an unusual take on things. I guess rubber
under the steel is OK, but rubber tires would be unholy. But whatever
they're doing seems to be working for them. I wonder if they're still busy
making those stoves...

It's not that rubber tires are "unholy"--their rule is no powered
vehicles that can be driven on the highway and no rubber tires is a way
to enforce it.

Much of the Amish attitude toward technology is pragmatic--it's not that
it's "unholy", it's that they want to maintain a particular social
structure of their community and they're perfectly happy to go with
technologies that don't upset that social structure but they after due
consideration forbid those that do upset it.

On Wed, 4 Aug 2010 16:44:46 -0400, "ATP" wrote:


"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
om...

ATP wrote:

"Steve W." wrote in message
...

You should talk to one of the local Amish smiths. In this area they are
using a neat wheel. They look like the standard wood/steel
construction.
BUT they actually have a wood center/spokes/rim, Then they have a layer
of rubber glued to that and a steel ring around all of it. The rubber
gives a better ride and seems to lower the wear on the steel as well.

Sounds a bit fancy and prideful to me...


Why? It sounds like less labor, for a longer useful life.

I'm kidding, but the Amish have an unusual take on things. I guess rubber
under the steel is OK, but rubber tires would be unholy. But whatever
they're doing seems to be working for them. I wonder if they're still busy
making those stoves...

Don't know about stoves, but they're still doing some nice woodworking. We
have a couple of rooms and will be adding more this year.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
On 8/4/2010 4:44 PM, ATP wrote:
"Michael A. wrote in message
m...

ATP wrote:

"Steve wrote in message
...

You should talk to one of the local Amish smiths. In this area they
are
using a neat wheel. They look like the standard wood/steel
construction.
BUT they actually have a wood center/spokes/rim, Then they have a
layer
of rubber glued to that and a steel ring around all of it. The rubber
gives a better ride and seems to lower the wear on the steel as well.

Sounds a bit fancy and prideful to me...


Why? It sounds like less labor, for a longer useful life.

I'm kidding, but the Amish have an unusual take on things. I guess rubber
under the steel is OK, but rubber tires would be unholy. But whatever
they're doing seems to be working for them. I wonder if they're still
busy
making those stoves...

It's not that rubber tires are "unholy"--their rule is no powered vehicles
that can be driven on the highway and no rubber tires is a way to enforce
it.

Much of the Amish attitude toward technology is pragmatic--it's not that
it's "unholy", it's that they want to maintain a particular social
structure of their community and they're perfectly happy to go with
technologies that don't upset that social structure but they after due
consideration forbid those that do upset it.

That makes more sense.

On Aug 4, 7:11*pm, "J. Clarke" wrote:
On 8/4/2010 4:44 PM, ATP wrote:

I'm kidding, but the Amish have an unusual take on things. I guess rubber
under the steel is OK, but rubber tires would be unholy. But whatever
they're doing seems to be working for them. I wonder if they're still busy
making those stoves...

It's not that rubber tires are "unholy"--their rule is no powered
vehicles that can be driven on the highway and no rubber tires is a way
to enforce it.

I'm not sure I follow - I've seen Amish wagons on the road, both with
rubber wheels and without. What does that have to do with it being
powered? None of the Amish wagons are powered.

Much of the Amish attitude toward technology is pragmatic--it's not that
it's "unholy", it's that they want to maintain a particular social
structure of their community and they're perfectly happy to go with
technologies that don't upset that social structure but they after due
consideration forbid those that do upset it.

Different sects of the Amish have different takes on the rubber. Some
allow it, some don't. Least that's what I've read. And it's owning
things that creates the problem. The Amish can take public
transportation and they'll hire buses when necessary.

R

RicodJour wrote:
On Aug 4, 7:11 pm, "J. Clarke" wrote:
On 8/4/2010 4:44 PM, ATP wrote:

I'm kidding, but the Amish have an unusual take on things. I guess rubber
under the steel is OK, but rubber tires would be unholy. But whatever
they're doing seems to be working for them. I wonder if they're still busy
making those stoves...
It's not that rubber tires are "unholy"--their rule is no powered
vehicles that can be driven on the highway and no rubber tires is a way
to enforce it.

I'm not sure I follow - I've seen Amish wagons on the road, both with
rubber wheels and without. What does that have to do with it being
powered? None of the Amish wagons are powered.

If you saw a buggy with rubber wheels it was NOT Amish. More likely
Mennonite.

Basically there are different orders of plain folks.
Old order Amish - These are the ones who shun pretty much all modern
technology, no powered machinery on the farm and maybe a phone stuck on
a pole out in the middle of a field for all the "local" Amish to use.

New order Amish - These allow some modern technology like generators and
solar power as well as some powered machinery on the farm with maybe a
steel wheeled tractor or crawler allowed. They allow a phone in the barn
or greenhouse and some even have a drivers license even though they are
not supposed to drive cars.

Mennonite - The closest to what we take for normal people. They allow
tractors and rubber tires on the buggies, some even have cars. They do
some stuff the old ways but also have cell phones and electricity in
some places.



Much of the Amish attitude toward technology is pragmatic--it's not that
it's "unholy", it's that they want to maintain a particular social
structure of their community and they're perfectly happy to go with
technologies that don't upset that social structure but they after due
consideration forbid those that do upset it.

Different sects of the Amish have different takes on the rubber. Some
allow it, some don't. Least that's what I've read. And it's owning
things that creates the problem. The Amish can take public
transportation and they'll hire buses when necessary.

Yep, and they also hire out locals to take good to market sales and
such. One of the locals has me drive him or his wife around quite a bit
to different farmers markets. VERY nice folks. The neighbors are
currently selling out their farm and I'm hoping that some friends of the
Amish I know buy it.

--
Steve W.

On Aug 4, 11:08*pm, "Steve W." wrote:
RicodJour wrote:
On Aug 4, 7:11 pm, "J. Clarke" wrote:

It's not that rubber tires are "unholy"--their rule is no powered
vehicles that can be driven on the highway and no rubber tires is a way
to enforce it.

I'm not sure I follow - I've seen Amish wagons on the road, both with
rubber wheels and without. *What does that have to do with it being
powered? *None of the Amish wagons are powered.

If you saw a buggy with rubber wheels it was NOT Amish. More likely
Mennonite.

Basically there are different orders of plain folks.
Old order Amish - These are the ones who shun pretty much all modern
technology, no powered machinery on the farm and maybe a phone stuck on
a pole out in the middle of a field for all the "local" Amish to use.

New order Amish - These allow some modern technology like generators and
*solar power as well as some powered machinery on the farm with maybe a
steel wheeled tractor or crawler allowed. They allow a phone in the barn
or greenhouse and some even have a drivers license even though they are
not supposed to drive cars.

Mennonite - The closest to what we take for normal people. They allow
tractors and rubber tires on the buggies, some even have cars. They do
some stuff the old ways but also have cell phones and electricity in
some places.

I hang out on newsgroups - maybe too much - and I don't know if I know
what a 'normal' person is anymore!

Much of the Amish attitude toward technology is pragmatic--it's not that
it's "unholy", it's that they want to maintain a particular social
structure of their community and they're perfectly happy to go with
technologies that don't upset that social structure but they after due
consideration forbid those that do upset it.

Different sects of the Amish have different takes on the rubber. *Some
allow it, some don't. *Least that's what I've read. *And it's owning
things that creates the problem. *The Amish can take public
transportation and they'll hire buses when necessary.

Yep, and they also hire out locals to take good to market sales and
such. One of the locals has me drive him or his wife around quite a bit
to different farmers markets. VERY nice folks. The neighbors are
currently selling out their farm and I'm hoping that some friends of the
*Amish I know buy it.

I hope the Amish buy this place:
http://newsfeed.time.com/2010/08/02/...in-the-family/

I'd hate to be the one to make the decision to sell such a place.

R

"Steve W." wrote in message
...
RicodJour wrote:
On Aug 4, 7:11 pm, "J. Clarke" wrote:
On 8/4/2010 4:44 PM, ATP wrote:

I'm kidding, but the Amish have an unusual take on things. I guess
rubber
under the steel is OK, but rubber tires would be unholy. But whatever
they're doing seems to be working for them. I wonder if they're still
busy
making those stoves...
It's not that rubber tires are "unholy"--their rule is no powered
vehicles that can be driven on the highway and no rubber tires is a way
to enforce it.

I'm not sure I follow - I've seen Amish wagons on the road, both with
rubber wheels and without. What does that have to do with it being
powered? None of the Amish wagons are powered.

If you saw a buggy with rubber wheels it was NOT Amish. More likely
Mennonite.

Basically there are different orders of plain folks.
Old order Amish - These are the ones who shun pretty much all modern
technology, no powered machinery on the farm and maybe a phone stuck on
a pole out in the middle of a field for all the "local" Amish to use.

New order Amish - These allow some modern technology like generators and
solar power as well as some powered machinery on the farm with maybe a
steel wheeled tractor or crawler allowed. They allow a phone in the barn
or greenhouse and some even have a drivers license even though they are
not supposed to drive cars.

Mennonite - The closest to what we take for normal people. They allow
tractors and rubber tires on the buggies, some even have cars. They do
some stuff the old ways but also have cell phones and electricity in
some places.


Best auto mechanic I ever knew was Mennonite!