On 8/4/2010 11:08 PM, Steve W. wrote:
RicodJour wrote:
On Aug 4, 7:11 pm, "J. wrote:
On 8/4/2010 4:44 PM, ATP wrote:

I'm kidding, but the Amish have an unusual take on things. I guess rubber
under the steel is OK, but rubber tires would be unholy. But whatever
they're doing seems to be working for them. I wonder if they're still busy
making those stoves...
It's not that rubber tires are "unholy"--their rule is no powered
vehicles that can be driven on the highway and no rubber tires is a way
to enforce it.

I'm not sure I follow - I've seen Amish wagons on the road, both with
rubber wheels and without. What does that have to do with it being
powered? None of the Amish wagons are powered.

If you saw a buggy with rubber wheels it was NOT Amish. More likely
Mennonite.

Basically there are different orders of plain folks.
Old order Amish - These are the ones who shun pretty much all modern
technology, no powered machinery on the farm and maybe a phone stuck on
a pole out in the middle of a field for all the "local" Amish to use.

New order Amish - These allow some modern technology like generators and
solar power as well as some powered machinery on the farm with maybe a
steel wheeled tractor or crawler allowed. They allow a phone in the barn
or greenhouse and some even have a drivers license even though they are
not supposed to drive cars.

Mennonite - The closest to what we take for normal people. They allow
tractors and rubber tires on the buggies, some even have cars. They do
some stuff the old ways but also have cell phones and electricity in
some places.

I understand that a surprising number of Amish have cell phones. The
way I saw it explained by one who has one is that he went to the Bishop
or the elders or whatever they have (I forget the details) with this new
thing and asked if he could try it. He was told that he could, with the
understanding that he might have to give it up later if if was decided
that such things were not acceptable.

As to what makes a cell phone different from a wired phone, I suspect
the wires have a good deal to do with it.

Much of the Amish attitude toward technology is pragmatic--it's not that
it's "unholy", it's that they want to maintain a particular social
structure of their community and they're perfectly happy to go with
technologies that don't upset that social structure but they after due
consideration forbid those that do upset it.

Different sects of the Amish have different takes on the rubber. Some
allow it, some don't. Least that's what I've read. And it's owning
things that creates the problem. The Amish can take public
transportation and they'll hire buses when necessary.

Yep, and they also hire out locals to take good to market sales and
such. One of the locals has me drive him or his wife around quite a bit
to different farmers markets. VERY nice folks. The neighbors are
currently selling out their farm and I'm hoping that some friends of the
Amish I know buy it.

On Wed, 4 Aug 2010 19:35:44 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
wrote:

On Aug 4, 7:11*pm, "J. Clarke" wrote:
On 8/4/2010 4:44 PM, ATP wrote:

I'm kidding, but the Amish have an unusual take on things. I guess rubber
under the steel is OK, but rubber tires would be unholy. But whatever
they're doing seems to be working for them. I wonder if they're still busy
making those stoves...

It's not that rubber tires are "unholy"--their rule is no powered
vehicles that can be driven on the highway and no rubber tires is a way
to enforce it.

I'm not sure I follow - I've seen Amish wagons on the road, both with
rubber wheels and without. What does that have to do with it being
powered? None of the Amish wagons are powered.

Much of the Amish attitude toward technology is pragmatic--it's not that
it's "unholy", it's that they want to maintain a particular social
structure of their community and they're perfectly happy to go with
technologies that don't upset that social structure but they after due
consideration forbid those that do upset it.

Different sects of the Amish have different takes on the rubber. Some
allow it, some don't. Least that's what I've read. And it's owning
things that creates the problem. The Amish can take public
transportation and they'll hire buses when necessary.

There are some Amish here in Southern Illinois that drive pickup
trucks, John Deere tractors and such.

Mark

On Aug 5, 4:17*am, "J. Clarke" wrote:
On 8/4/2010 11:08 PM, Steve W. wrote:



RicodJour wrote:
On Aug 4, 7:11 pm, "J. *wrote:
On 8/4/2010 4:44 PM, ATP wrote:

I'm kidding, but the Amish have an unusual take on things. I guess rubber
under the steel is OK, but rubber tires would be unholy. But whatever
they're doing seems to be working for them. I wonder if they're still busy
making those stoves...
It's not that rubber tires are "unholy"--their rule is no powered
vehicles that can be driven on the highway and no rubber tires is a way
to enforce it.

I'm not sure I follow - I've seen Amish wagons on the road, both with
rubber wheels and without. *What does that have to do with it being
powered? *None of the Amish wagons are powered.

If you saw a buggy with rubber wheels it was NOT Amish. More likely
Mennonite.

Basically there are different orders of plain folks.
Old order Amish - These are the ones who shun pretty much all modern
technology, no powered machinery on the farm and maybe a phone stuck on
a pole out in the middle of a field for all the "local" Amish to use.

New order Amish - These allow some modern technology like generators and
* solar power as well as some powered machinery on the farm with maybe a
steel wheeled tractor or crawler allowed. They allow a phone in the barn
or greenhouse and some even have a drivers license even though they are
not supposed to drive cars.

Mennonite - The closest to what we take for normal people. They allow
tractors and rubber tires on the buggies, some even have cars. They do
some stuff the old ways but also have cell phones and electricity in
some places.

I understand that a surprising number of Amish have cell phones. *The
way I saw it explained by one who has one is that he went to the Bishop
or the elders or whatever they have (I forget the details) with this new
thing and asked if he could try it. *He was told that he could, with the
understanding that he might have to give it up later if if was decided
that such things were not acceptable.

As to what makes a cell phone different from a wired phone, I suspect
the wires have a good deal to do with it.

The Ohio Amish furniture company I bought my stuff from wasn't
connected to the grid but had cell phones, an took plastic. To power
the machinery they had a bank of three diesel generators. Other
furniture stores in the area had gas lighting. Rather surprising to
walk under a fixture in the middle of the summer.

On 8/5/2010 7:58 AM, Markem wrote:
On Wed, 4 Aug 2010 19:35:44 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
wrote:

On Aug 4, 7:11 pm, "J. wrote:
On 8/4/2010 4:44 PM, ATP wrote:

I'm kidding, but the Amish have an unusual take on things. I guess rubber
under the steel is OK, but rubber tires would be unholy. But whatever
they're doing seems to be working for them. I wonder if they're still busy
making those stoves...

It's not that rubber tires are "unholy"--their rule is no powered
vehicles that can be driven on the highway and no rubber tires is a way
to enforce it.

I'm not sure I follow - I've seen Amish wagons on the road, both with
rubber wheels and without. What does that have to do with it being
powered? None of the Amish wagons are powered.

Much of the Amish attitude toward technology is pragmatic--it's not that
it's "unholy", it's that they want to maintain a particular social
structure of their community and they're perfectly happy to go with
technologies that don't upset that social structure but they after due
consideration forbid those that do upset it.

Different sects of the Amish have different takes on the rubber. Some
allow it, some don't. Least that's what I've read. And it's owning
things that creates the problem. The Amish can take public
transportation and they'll hire buses when necessary.

There are some Amish here in Southern Illinois that drive pickup
trucks, John Deere tractors and such.

Are you sure those aren't Mennonites?

John Deere tractors could be New Order Amish, but pickup trucks don't
seem very likely unless there was some truly extraordinary situation.

In article , "J. Clarke" wrote:
On 8/5/2010 7:58 AM, Markem wrote:
On Wed, 4 Aug 2010 19:35:44 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
wrote:

On Aug 4, 7:11 pm, "J. wrote:
On 8/4/2010 4:44 PM, ATP wrote:

I'm kidding, but the Amish have an unusual take on things. I guess rubber
under the steel is OK, but rubber tires would be unholy. But whatever
they're doing seems to be working for them. I wonder if they're still busy
making those stoves...

It's not that rubber tires are "unholy"--their rule is no powered
vehicles that can be driven on the highway and no rubber tires is a way
to enforce it.

I'm not sure I follow - I've seen Amish wagons on the road, both with
rubber wheels and without. What does that have to do with it being
powered? None of the Amish wagons are powered.

Much of the Amish attitude toward technology is pragmatic--it's not that
it's "unholy", it's that they want to maintain a particular social
structure of their community and they're perfectly happy to go with
technologies that don't upset that social structure but they after due
consideration forbid those that do upset it.

Different sects of the Amish have different takes on the rubber. Some
allow it, some don't. Least that's what I've read. And it's owning
things that creates the problem. The Amish can take public
transportation and they'll hire buses when necessary.

There are some Amish here in Southern Illinois that drive pickup
trucks, John Deere tractors and such.

Are you sure those aren't Mennonites?

Or German Baptists (aka "Dunkers"). Their dress is almost identical to the
Amish, the men have the same beards, and they typically work in the same
occupations (chiefly farming, cabinetmaking, and teaching). Their theology is
very similar to the Amish, except that they're more accepting of modern
technology. They use electricity, telephones, cars, and tractors. They don't
watch television or listen to the radio, and usually remove the stereos from
their cars. (We used to live in a rural area of central Indiana, and had
several German Baptist neighbors. They're fine people, kind, hard working,
generous, and absolutely honest.)

On Aug 5, 9:22*am, (Doug Miller) wrote:

Or German Baptists (aka "Dunkers"). Their dress is almost identical to the
Amish, the men have the same beards, and they typically work in the same
occupations (chiefly farming, cabinetmaking, and teaching). Their theology is
very similar to the Amish, except that they're more accepting of modern
technology. They use electricity, telephones, cars, and tractors. They don't
watch television or listen to the radio, and usually remove the stereos from
their cars.

Hmmm, I think there must be some Dunkers living in the South Bronx.
Lots of stereos missing there.

R

In article , RicodJour wrote:
On Aug 5, 9:22=A0am, (Doug Miller) wrote:

Or German Baptists (aka "Dunkers"). Their dress is almost identical to the
Amish, the men have the same beards, and they typically work in the same
occupations (chiefly farming, cabinetmaking, and teaching). Their theology is
very similar to the Amish, except that they're more accepting of modern
technology. They use electricity, telephones, cars, and tractors. They don't
watch television or listen to the radio, and usually remove the stereos from
their cars.

Hmmm, I think there must be some Dunkers living in the South Bronx.
Lots of stereos missing there.

I meant from _their own_ cars. ;-)

In article , J. Clarke
wrote:

Working on a decorative wagon wheel in wood, but I'd really like to put
a metal tire on it. Now, that's no trick if it's just for looks--make a
steel ring that's close enough to the dimension that a little epoxy
under it will hold it, but the devil in me wants to do a proper job and
shrink the thing.

Trouble is that this is a no-burn area so I can't just light a fire in
the back yard and heat the tire.

So, any ideas on how to go about this? The wheel is 2 feet in diameter,
making the tire too big to fit in a barbecue or the like. If I was
making a bunch of 'em I'd be tempted to just build a charcoal pit big
enough and call it a barbie, but that's a lot of work for one wheel.

And yeah, I know I can find a blacksmith, but I'm more interested in the
making than in having a wheel.

I'm coming in late and you've probably already solved the problem. But,
if not, have you considered induction heating? No open flames, no
smoke, and I know it can be done with small pieces (bearings, e.g.)
with regular house current. Here's the relevant section from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_heating
"Heating to fit"
"Induction heating is often used to heat an item causing it to expand
prior to fitting or assembly. Bearings are routinely heated in this way
using mains frequency (50/60 Hz) and a laminated steel transformer type
core passing through the centre of the bearing."

It might require a little research and initial expense. Both the
engineering and the outlay might be beyond your reach. I know it is
beyond mine.

-Frank

--
Here's some of my work:
http://www.sharpbywarner.com

"Frank Warner" wrote

I'm coming in late and you've probably already solved the problem. But,
if not, have you considered induction heating? No open flames, no
smoke, and I know it can be done with small pieces (bearings, e.g.)
with regular house current. Here's the relevant section from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_heating

You can also make your own oven in the garage. I have stacked up bricks to
make an area as large as is needed, and put a piece of drywall on top of it.
Use a hot plate or burner from a scavanged stove for the heat.
--
Jim in NC

On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 08:18:32 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

On 8/5/2010 7:58 AM, Markem wrote:
On Wed, 4 Aug 2010 19:35:44 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
wrote:

On Aug 4, 7:11 pm, "J. wrote:
On 8/4/2010 4:44 PM, ATP wrote:

I'm kidding, but the Amish have an unusual take on things. I guess rubber
under the steel is OK, but rubber tires would be unholy. But whatever
they're doing seems to be working for them. I wonder if they're still busy
making those stoves...

It's not that rubber tires are "unholy"--their rule is no powered
vehicles that can be driven on the highway and no rubber tires is a way
to enforce it.

I'm not sure I follow - I've seen Amish wagons on the road, both with
rubber wheels and without. What does that have to do with it being
powered? None of the Amish wagons are powered.

Much of the Amish attitude toward technology is pragmatic--it's not that
it's "unholy", it's that they want to maintain a particular social
structure of their community and they're perfectly happy to go with
technologies that don't upset that social structure but they after due
consideration forbid those that do upset it.

Different sects of the Amish have different takes on the rubber. Some
allow it, some don't. Least that's what I've read. And it's owning
things that creates the problem. The Amish can take public
transportation and they'll hire buses when necessary.

There are some Amish here in Southern Illinois that drive pickup
trucks, John Deere tractors and such.

Are you sure those aren't Mennonites?

John Deere tractors could be New Order Amish, but pickup trucks don't
seem very likely unless there was some truly extraordinary situation.

Amish is what they say they are. The family (extended) has bought an
orchard and farm land in the area. I gather that they are an offshoot,
they are using modern things to make profit and improve the farm and
orchard.

Adapting to realities is how it was explained to me.

Mark

On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 19:36:39 -0500, Markem wrote:

On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 08:18:32 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

On 8/5/2010 7:58 AM, Markem wrote:
On Wed, 4 Aug 2010 19:35:44 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
wrote:

On Aug 4, 7:11 pm, "J. wrote:
On 8/4/2010 4:44 PM, ATP wrote:

I'm kidding, but the Amish have an unusual take on things. I guess rubber
under the steel is OK, but rubber tires would be unholy. But whatever
they're doing seems to be working for them. I wonder if they're still busy
making those stoves...

It's not that rubber tires are "unholy"--their rule is no powered
vehicles that can be driven on the highway and no rubber tires is a way
to enforce it.

I'm not sure I follow - I've seen Amish wagons on the road, both with
rubber wheels and without. What does that have to do with it being
powered? None of the Amish wagons are powered.

Much of the Amish attitude toward technology is pragmatic--it's not that
it's "unholy", it's that they want to maintain a particular social
structure of their community and they're perfectly happy to go with
technologies that don't upset that social structure but they after due
consideration forbid those that do upset it.

Different sects of the Amish have different takes on the rubber. Some
allow it, some don't. Least that's what I've read. And it's owning
things that creates the problem. The Amish can take public
transportation and they'll hire buses when necessary.

There are some Amish here in Southern Illinois that drive pickup
trucks, John Deere tractors and such.

Are you sure those aren't Mennonites?

John Deere tractors could be New Order Amish, but pickup trucks don't
seem very likely unless there was some truly extraordinary situation.

Amish is what they say they are. The family (extended) has bought an
orchard and farm land in the area. I gather that they are an offshoot,
they are using modern things to make profit and improve the farm and
orchard.

Adapting to realities is how it was explained to me.

As it was explained to me, they couldn't use modern conveniences to make their
lives easier, but business was business.