In article ,
Charlie Self wrote:
Ron Bean notes:

But in Wisconsin we can laugh at ourselves.

We once had a Governor who suggested that our license plates
should say "Eat Cheese or Die".

That must have been about the time I lived there. But if he'd been PC, he'd
have admitted, "Eat Cheese & Die" was more truthful.


"Mortality rate for non-cheese-eaters: 100%"

Bruce,
I do believe that you are taking some light hearted kidding a bit to =
seriously. Californians have been the butt of some jokes for a decade or =
2. Try being from Kentucky,Tennessee,Alabama.Georgia well you get the =
idea. As far as Kali oops sorry California being the "greatest state in =
the nation" I guess that's a matter of opinion and as my Grandpappy =
always said opinions are like assholes they all stink except mine!
Puff

"Bruce" wrote in message =
...
Heya all,
You know you *don't* live in California when...
=20
1. You believe every stereotype you've ever heard
about California.
=20
2. You're so geographically ignorant that you think that
the entire state is made up of the Los Angeles area
and the San Francisco area.
=20
3. You don't realize that California has the most geographical
variety of any state in the Union. It has the highest point
in the continental U.S., (Mt. Whitney) as well as the
lowest, (Death Valley). It has the largest trees. And on
a more subjective note, the most beautiful National parks
that include Yosemite. A huge number of lakes, rivers and
streams as well as on of the most beautiful coastlines in the
world. It also shares with Nv. one of the most beautiful
natural lakes in the world, Lake Tahoe.
=20
4. You're too ignorant to understand that the majority of the
people who "normal" people would call freaks came from
other states. Still, the majority of the people in California
are decent, hard working people who aren't like the people
that the shut-ins, (like Bob Schmall) have seen on T.V. or
in movies.
=20
5. You don't realize that California produces more food than
anywhere else in the U.S. The millions of acres of farmland
are just part of what makes California easily the most beautiful
state in the Union.
=20
6. You're ignorant of the fact that our governor can easily kick
the ass of any other governor in the Union or, for that matter,
any other world leader. (Jesse Ventura is no longer the
governor
of Minnesota)
=20
7. You don't realize that some of us Native Californians get rather
sensitive when our state is unjustly bad-mouthed...Sniff, Sob!
=20
Yeah, I know, it was just a joke and lighten up, right? Well, I've
spent way too much time in New York and Texas visiting in-laws
who think just like your retarded California-bashing list. As is
evidenced by the few responses that have shown up so far, it's
apparent that many of you non-Californians are under the same
misconceptions. All of you who really believe the list are quite
welcome to stay out of California and make sure you avoid all
of the products produced here. Better rent a big dumpster because
it's going to be *full*. Deposit your computer and it's software in
there too. Better get that garden growing while you're at it.
=20
Bruce,
A proud native Californian who's lived in many different states and
visited many more. I'll stay where I am thank you.
=20
=20
=20
=20

"Bruce" wrote in message
...
Heya all,
You know you *don't* live in California when...

2. You're so geographically ignorant that you think that
the entire state is made up of the Los Angeles area
and the San Francisco area.

Nope, that one won't work, more than a few residents of those
two cities would fail the test too.

3. You don't realize that California has the most geographical
variety of any state in the Union. It has the highest point
in the continental U.S., (Mt. Whitney) as well as the
lowest, (Death Valley). It has the largest trees. And on
a more subjective note, the most beautiful National parks
that include Yosemite. A huge number of lakes, rivers and
streams as well as on of the most beautiful coastlines in the
world. It also shares with Nv. one of the most beautiful
natural lakes in the world, Lake Tahoe.

Dang, I though it was Texans that claimed the biggest and bestest
of everything.

4. You're too ignorant to understand that the majority of the
people who "normal" people would call freaks came from
other states. Still, the majority of the people in California
are decent, hard working people who aren't like the people
that the shut-ins, (like Bob Schmall) have seen on T.V. or
in movies.

Right, California is the main gathering place for freaks.

5. You don't realize that California produces more food than
anywhere else in the U.S. The millions of acres of farmland
are just part of what makes California easily the most beautiful
state in the Union.

Maybe because California *isn't* more beautiful than, oh, Indiana,
Kentucky, Tennessee, Colorado, Wyoming, Washington state or
Alaska, just to name a few.

Which reminds me:
"You might be from California if:
You think it's better than most the rest of the country."

On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 14:30:15 -0700, "Bruce" wrote:

Southern California has very little to do with the majority of
the state. There's no smog problem where I live and the
same can be said with the majority of the state. At least
no more than around any other part of the country. Ever
been to Denver? The same goes for the crime/gang problem.
Gangs aren't a problem except in the major metro areas
and that would apply to *any* state. I lived in Portland, Or.
for a few years. I moved because I got sick of the gangs.
What do you mean by wall-to-wall cities? Did you ever
leave Southern California? Really. That's the only part of
the state that's really like that more than any other state
and that's mostly just the L.A. area. The S.F. Bay Area
is congested too but not as much as many areas on the
East Coast. Between that is lots of wide open spaces.
Dry, dead landscape??? This confirms that all you know
is the far southern portion of the state. The majority of
the state is green, either from trees or crops.

Bruce
Redding, Ca.



I agree with Bruce that Southern California (Los Angeles and parts south) is what an awful lot of people think of when the subject
of California arises. I know that I do. And I further agree that Northern California is a world apart from the southern part of the
state. There is much the same dichotomy in Louisiana. North of Baton Rouge is a totally different place than Southern Louisiana.
There is actually some dry ground up near Shreveport. I know there is, because I saw it! (Neither half of Louisiana is habitable
during the summer, but that's a different story.)

I was in Southern California (San Diego and Camp Pendleton) for a while before boarding a troop ship and heading for the setting
sun. It could very well be that association which causes me to say that I left nothing in California that I want to go back for.
But, at the same time, the most beautiful sight I've ever seen is that selfsame California - the Golden Gate Bridge and San
Francisco as seen from the deck of a returning troop ship. And, I'm sure that circumstance affected the beauty in the observation.
The point is that most frequently what people find in a place is what they bring with them.

I think that what it boils down to is that "Home" is the prettiest, best, ... , etc. regardless of where it might be physically
located. I've been in Wichita, Kansas for about the last 30 years. It is "Home" and, as a result, I'm sort of partial to this area.
Oh, no one will ever make any money running an Alpine Ski resort anywhere near here, and some folks might even think that the miles
and miles of nothing but miles and miles verge on being monotonous. Yet, there is beauty in the Flint Hills and the Gyp Hills and
the "Amber Waves of Grain", and everywhere else, in this state as in all states of the Union. But, you have to open your eyes and
look outside yourself to see it.

Now, where do I turn in the soapbox?


Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS USA

Hey, Bruce, first of all, lighten up.

Next, you got nothing on me, I live in New Jersey, the "original" butt
of all state jokes. "Oh, you live in Joisey, what Exit?" Or the
environmental jokes "the Meadowlands, yeah, I've seen it, it glows in
the dark." I got over it.

As a matter of fact, while NJ is the most densely populated state in
the union, has the most Superfund sites per capita, has a section of
Middlesex County known as "cancer alley" and has auto insurance rates
which would curl your hair, believe it or not it also has native trout
streams, farms, and a wonderful rural character (Northwest NJ, Sussex,
Warren counties; the Pine Barrens) and some of the nicest beaches
around (albeit crowded at times), and I can still drive for two hours
and get my rough sawn hardwood from mills in eastern PA for prices
equal to or cheaper than what I paid in western North Carolina when I
lived in Charlotte.

And, I voluntairly moved back to NJ from Charlotte, which to a lot of
folks is the promised land, but I found it stiflingly hot, crowded,
expensive (yes, in a relative sense) and gastronomically ethnically
challenged (i.e., you can't get a good pizza in the whole of
Mecklenberg County).

So, get over it. Mutt



"Bruce" wrote in message ...
See my previous responses with regards to humor.
I've got lots of humor. But I'm also very proud of
the greatest state in the Union and I'm tired of seeing
it bad-mouthed under the guise of a joke. Why don't
you tell some ethnic jokes, Bill. C'mon, it's just in fun,
right? I'll be you can think of all sorts of stereotypes
that will be a barrel of laughs. Can't see anything
going wrong with that.

Bruce
Redding, Ca.

"Bill Everette" wrote in message
...
Jeez! My wife told me that humor was in short supply in CA. You must
be
suffering from "Rolling Laughouts"!

In article , (Mutt) wrote:
Hey, Bruce, first of all, lighten up.

Next, you got nothing on me, I live in New Jersey, the "original" butt
of all state jokes. "Oh, you live in Joisey, what Exit?"

Which continues....

"The one next to the chemical plant."
"Which one?"
"The one that caught fire last week."
"Which one?"

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com

Mutt notes:


And, I voluntairly moved back to NJ from Charlotte, which to a lot of
folks is the promised land, but I found it stiflingly hot, crowded,
expensive (yes, in a relative sense) and gastronomically ethnically
challenged (i.e., you can't get a good pizza in the whole of
Mecklenberg County).

Still? When I first moved to VA, you couldn't get a decent pizza south of Fort
Lee, really, but that was a long time ago (and yes, the Ft. Lee I mean is in
NJ: I'm a New Yorker).

Now, the pizza even in central VA is pretty good, some even good (or my taste
buds have gone to pot along with the rest of my body). You can't do much in
Thai food, or even real Japanese food, but, IMHO, who wants to anyway?

If I weren't too lazy, I'd do a living cost comparison check on Lynchburg, VA
and Charlotte, NC. That will definitely show your theory of relativity is true.
But I am too lazy.

Not really. Living costs in Charlotte are 114% of what they are in Lynchburg.
I'm astounded they're that close.

Charlie Self
"It is not strange... to mistake change for progress." Millard Fillmore

Tue, Apr 6, 2004, 12:10am (Norman=A0D.=A0Crow) says:
'S' funny, I got exactly the same pics from a friend in OZ, claiming
they were about an oil pipeline being built from Mozambique to
Sasolburg, alongside the National Road to Komatipoort.
Who knows?

Huh! I got that from my sister, who got it from a friend.

I looked at the pictures again. The top one, the guy on the right
looks like he's wearing a sarong. And, I think that looks more like a
croc than a gator, so I'm thinking it might well have been taken in
Africa.

The other one looks like rattlers, to me. But, hard to tell.

I'm thinking someone just faked it. Probably never know tho. Oh,
ye of little faith. LOL I still don't care to life in Florida. Or
California.

JOAT
Don't e-mail me while I'm breathing.

Doug Miller wrote:
Next, you got nothing on me, I live in New Jersey, the "original" butt
of all state jokes. "Oh, you live in Joisey, what Exit?"

Which continues....

"The one next to the chemical plant."
"Which one?"
"The one that caught fire last week."
"Which one?"

Q: Why did Washington get all the lawyers and New Jersey all the toxic waste?
A: New Jersey got first dibbs.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN


http://www.mortimerschnerd.com

Bruce wrote...
3. You don't realize that California has the most geographical
variety of any state in the Union. It has the highest point
in the continental U.S., (Mt. Whitney) as well as the
lowest, (Death Valley). It has the largest trees. And on
a more subjective note, the most beautiful National parks
that include Yosemite. A huge number of lakes, rivers and
streams as well as on of the most beautiful coastlines in the
world. It also shares with Nv. one of the most beautiful
natural lakes in the world, Lake Tahoe.

Ahem. I think Alaska might be a candidate for most geographical variety.
It covers six climactic zones, IIRC. Maybe seven.

6. You're ignorant of the fact that our governor can easily kick
the ass of any other governor in the Union or, for that matter,
any other world leader. (Jesse Ventura is no longer the
governor of Minnesota)

Fact? I thought Arnie was a bodybuilder and actor. He knows how to
fight, too?

A proud native Californian who's lived in many different states and
visited many more. I'll stay where I am thank you.

Hey, we'd move there, too, if there weren't so many other people with the
same idea. (G)

Jim
who appreciates the climate of his Southern Arizona, but likes that of
SoCal even more.

Tom Veatch wrote in message . ..
On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 14:30:15 -0700, "Bruce" wrote:

Southern California has very little to do with the majority of
the state.
snip
I agree with Bruce that Southern California (Los Angeles and parts south) is what an awful lot of people think of when the subject
of California arises. I know that I do. And I further agree that Northern California is a world apart from the southern part of the
state. There is much the same dichotomy in Louisiana. North of Baton Rouge is a totally different place than Southern Louisiana.
There is actually some dry ground up near Shreveport. I know there is, because I saw it! (Neither half of Louisiana is habitable
during the summer, but that's a different story.)

I was in Southern California (San Diego and Camp Pendleton) for a while before boarding a troop ship and heading for the setting
sun. It could very well be that association which causes me to say that I left nothing in California that I want to go back for.
But, at the same time, the most beautiful sight I've ever seen is that selfsame California - the Golden Gate Bridge and San
Francisco as seen from the deck of a returning troop ship. And, I'm sure that circumstance affected the beauty in the observation.
The point is that most frequently what people find in a place is what they bring with them.

I think that what it boils down to is that "Home" is the prettiest, best, ... , etc. regardless of where it might be physically
located. I've been in Wichita, Kansas for about the last 30 years. It is "Home" and, as a result, I'm sort of partial to this area.
Oh, no one will ever make any money running an Alpine Ski resort anywhere near here, and some folks might even think that the miles
and miles of nothing but miles and miles verge on being monotonous. Yet, there is beauty in the Flint Hills and the Gyp Hills and
the "Amber Waves of Grain", and everywhere else, in this state as in all states of the Union. But, you have to open your eyes and
look outside yourself to see it.

Tom,

Yours is the most intelligent post in this entire thread. You live
where you choose to live and, thusly, don't feel compelled to deride
others' choices of home. What matters is that your home is the best
place for *you*. As a native Midwesterner who has spent the last 19
years in SoCal, I found Bob's original posts to be pretty
entertaining. Many of the items about CA are funny because there is
some truth to them. But those things don't stop thousands of people
from moving here each year, so SoCal must have something to offer in
their eyes. Every American is entitled to live where they choose.
Those who spend their energy grumbling about how awful it is to live
elsewhere probably aren't very secure with their own choice.

Now, where do I turn in the soapbox?

Nah, you should keep that soapbox and use it more often.

Cheers,
Mike - N. SD County

"Bruce" wrote in message ...
Heya all,
You know you *don't* live in California when...

Hmmmmmm.

Well, I've lived in two other states (Ahiyah, Northern Virginia), been
to all but Alaska, and I'd say this is still home. I gotta admit, the
traffic here in L.A. is getting downright ugly. Causes a feller to
become resourceful when picking his way home through the daily
gauntlet.

Some of my observations after four decades living here...

Most of California is farms, mountains, hills, deserts, lakes,
chapparal and coastline. There are about 8,000 lakes, most of them
inaccessible by road. It is home to the largest palm oasis in this
hemisphere - I'd bet most people in this state don't even know that.
Most of California could be mistaken for Oregon, Mexico, Colorado,
Alaska, Nebraska or Nevada, if you wandered outside of L.A. or San
Francisco. Matter of fact, there's good reason to believe that
Bakersfield is just a chunk of Oklahoma that broke off and popped up
a-straddle of state route 99. As much as I loath the traffic in S.F.,
there isn't a much more picturesque view of a city, as the view of San
Francisco from the Marin Headlands. Oh yeah, there's a bridge
obstructing the view a little bit.

http://www.pbase.com/image/20595697

It's a nice place to visit .

I guess what I like about "home," is that it's all here, from
Hollywood to the ghost towns, from Disneyland to sleepy little beach
towns like Encinitas. Why, we even have our own NASCAR track.

I don't mind the stereotypes... I mean, there's a reason some of my
friends refer to me as "O'Dude."

I'm outty.

O'Deen

In article , says...


'S' funny, I got exactly the same pics from a friend in OZ, claiming they
were about an oil pipeline being built from Mozambique to Sasolburg,
alongside the National Road to Komatipoort.

Who knows?

Well for one there are no alligators in Southern Africa, crocodiles yes
but they do not look like that and there are no rattlers here either.
No oil pipeline either. There was talk of a gas line though. Somebody
has their wires / facts crossed.
--

Phillip Hansen
Skil-Phil Solutions

Yeah, I loved the U.P. and MTU, unfortunately I wanted to get a job after I
graduated, so I moved back down state. One of the most telling differences
between when I lived in SOUTHERN California and in the U.P. is that in the
U.P. I *never* locked the door to the house I was living in. I didn't even
have a key because we had one key and there will 3 people living there. When
we would leave for breaks the last person would lock the door and leave the
key on the porch so the first person back could get in. I *never* worried
about anything getting stolen either. Hell, when I lived in SOUTHERN
California you couldn't go into a gas station for 30 seconds and leave your
bike unlocked without the possibility of it getting ripped off.

Yes, I lived in SOUTHERN California but we had plenty vacations to Northern
California when I was growing up. I never stayed long enough to get attached
to any of the northern areas but I can say that Northern and Southern
California are almost like completely different states. So, whenever I think
of California, I think of SOUTHERN California because that is where I lived.
Even so, I still prefer the Midwest, people just seem to be more laid back.
When I moved to Michigan I was amazed by how blue the skies were all the
time, how clean the bathrooms were at my High School, and that my High
School was surrounded by an orchard and cows even though downtown Grand
Rapids was only about 10 miles away. That's what I mean about wall-to-wall
cities. In SOUTHERN California you drive from city to city to city with no
space in between. On the other hand, in Michigan once you get out of Grand
Rapids you have to drive 30 or more miles to get to Cadillac, Holland, or
Kalamazoo and those cities aren't even that big.

Greg M


"George" george@least wrote in message
...
MTU, eh? Why did you leave da UP?

I spent time in Marysville, and it got so bad that you had to have a group
to camp out or risk the freaks even in the mountains. For my money, it's
still granola land.

Oh yeah, born a troll - Joy and Telegraph....

"Greg M" wrote in message
m...
I've been
living in the Detroit Metro area for the past year and before that I was
going to school for five years in Houghton, MI (in the U.P.). The
Detroit
suburbs remind me a lot of California, except for the significantly
lower
amount of import automobiles :-)

"Bruce" wrote in message ...
I do have a sense of humor, as can be seen by some
of my reply. However, how would you feel if we
start with some black jokes or some Jew jokes?
Maybe we can make fun of the stupid crazy folks from
Mexico! Yeah, sure is funny stuff! I'll bet you can't
see any comparison here. "Hey, I'm just kidding!"
The responses to the attempt at humor were evidence
that many people take the OP joke seriously. Just
out of curiosity, how would any of you folks from Canada
take it if we made a long list of derogatory and nasty
stereotypes about Canada. Don't worry, we'll make
some up. That's what was done with Ca.

Bruce
Redding, Ca.

Man, you need to chill and be thankful you don't come from a state
that folks actually make fun of like West Virginia (my beloved home
state) or Arkansas, etc. (it'a all "relative" ya know - that's a joke,
son).

Dave Hall

"Bruce" wrote in message
...
Heya all,
You know you *don't* live in California when...

Your car rust's out...
Snow Tires...
After a fishing trip, people say "You caught a what? [Marlin, Yellowtail,
Rooster, Ect.]
After a morning of snow boarding, people don't say, "Let's go surfing or
ride go our dirt bikes"
When your dog runs off, you can still see him after three days.
When the tallest thing in the state is a hill 2000 +/- ft and the locals
call it Mount so and so.
When the locals call a 20 minute backup the worst traffic they have seen in
months.
When the locals say "Head for the cellar! - A twister is approaching!"
When the locals refer to hail in sizes larger than a pea, hail nets, ect.
When the woodworker has his shop in the cellar, basement or talks about how
best to heat it.
When the weatherman says 90% humity and 90 today and the rest of the week.

And the list just keeps getting longer...

Dave




----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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Bay Area Dave wrote in
om:


I got right in at 5 PM tonight at Cheesecake factory at the
new Oakridge Mall. How's that for luck. We usually walk in
and walk out because the wait is so long.

dave

And that's why your blood sugar spiked, right?

Speaking as the spouse of a diabetic (type 2), I'm beginning to share the
problems with sleep habits, etc.

Take care of yourself.

Patriarch

(Patrick Olguin) wrote in
:

"Bruce" wrote in message
...
Heya all,
You know you *don't* live in California when...

Hmmmmmm.

Well, I've lived in two other states (Ahiyah, Northern Virginia), been
to all but Alaska, and I'd say this is still home. I gotta admit, the
traffic here in L.A. is getting downright ugly. Causes a feller to
become resourceful when picking his way home through the daily
gauntlet.

Some of my observations after four decades living here...

Most of California is farms, mountains, hills, deserts, lakes,
chapparal and coastline. There are about 8,000 lakes, most of them
inaccessible by road. It is home to the largest palm oasis in this
hemisphere - I'd bet most people in this state don't even know that.
Most of California could be mistaken for Oregon, Mexico, Colorado,
Alaska, Nebraska or Nevada, if you wandered outside of L.A. or San
Francisco. Matter of fact, there's good reason to believe that
Bakersfield is just a chunk of Oklahoma that broke off and popped up
a-straddle of state route 99. As much as I loath the traffic in S.F.,
there isn't a much more picturesque view of a city, as the view of San
Francisco from the Marin Headlands. Oh yeah, there's a bridge
obstructing the view a little bit.

http://www.pbase.com/image/20595697

It's a nice place to visit .

I guess what I like about "home," is that it's all here, from
Hollywood to the ghost towns, from Disneyland to sleepy little beach
towns like Encinitas. Why, we even have our own NASCAR track.

I don't mind the stereotypes... I mean, there's a reason some of my
friends refer to me as "O'Dude."

I'm outty.

O'Deen


Well, Paddy, you got that right. When the great grandparents came to
California in the fifties (that would be the 1850's), many of the locals
still spoke Spanish. Heck, in Mendocino County, there were still folks
around speaking Russian. (Ever been to Fort Ross, above Jenner?)

My ancestors came from Nova Scotia, from Western Pennsylvania, from Denmark
and from Germany. To the small towns and pretty places to try to make a
living, doing whatever they could. It was no easier to make a living in
the dairy business, or the lumber trade, or as a blacksmith here, then,
than anywhere else. But at least, to misquote Garrison Kiellor, here
Mother Nature doesn't make a serious attempt to kill you three or four
times a year.

Trying to find the balance between large enough for economic commerce, and
small enough for elbow room is an ongoing challenge. We've moved away
twice. We're back. Our kids are starting families. We don't want to be
too far from the grandkids. We've seen that before. As much as
grandparents spoil grandchildren, the converse is also true. Nothing
charges my batteries quite as well as a hug from the 'grandson in perpetual
motion'.

Home really is where the heart is.

So everyone come and visit! Spend a nickle or two. Take plenty of
pictures! Gawk at the locals. As you can see, there's all kinds here!

Patriarch

Dave Hall responds:


Man, you need to chill and be thankful you don't come from a state
that folks actually make fun of like West Virginia (my beloved home
state) or Arkansas, etc. (it'a all "relative" ya know - that's a joke,
son).


And it's a joke that sent Gov. Weasel into fits a couple weeks ago when it
turned up on Abercrombie & Fitch T shirts. He screamed so loud about it, that
the wind from the publicity sold tht printing out before A&F could even respond
about whether or not they'd pull the offending clothing from the shelves. The
store in Charleston (Capital of WV for the great unwashed out there) sold out
before any others.

West Virginians can take a joke even if their governor can't.

And that's from someone who would one helluva lot rather be someplace else, and
soon!

Charlie Self
"It is not strange... to mistake change for progress." Millard Fillmore

On 6 Apr 2004 09:56:58 -0700, (Patrick Olguin)
wrote:

snipatrocity

I guess what I like about "home," is that it's all here, from
Hollywood to the ghost towns, from Disneyland to sleepy little beach
towns like Encinitas. Why, we even have our own NASCAR track.

I don't mind the stereotypes... I mean, there's a reason some of my
friends refer to me as "O'Dude."


Jimmy Carville (sp?) says that Pennsyltucky is, "Pittsburgh in the
West, Philadelphia in the East, and Alabama in between. I've never
been in the great state of Alabama, but I believe I know what Mr.
Carville was trying to say.

The people from the middle of my state don't think that Philadelphia
and Pittsburgh are really part of Pennsylvania.

A lot of folks associate New York State with New York City and that's
just plain wrong.

I've hunted and fished in places in New York State that look like the
forest primeval. Same holds true for Pennsyltucky.

It's fun to break balls about States and such, but the real truth is
about the difference between the urban/suburban environment and what
goes on out in the sticks - which are often only a few miles away from
the megalopolis stuff.

My guess is that I have more in common with a guy from a rural section
of whatever State he's from than I do with the urban denizens of my
own area.


Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret)
Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...
Jimmy Carville (sp?) says that Pennsyltucky is, "Pittsburgh in the
West, Philadelphia in the East, and Alabama in between. I've never
been in the great state of Alabama, but I believe I know what Mr.
Carville was trying to say.

The people from the middle of my state don't think that Philadelphia
and Pittsburgh are really part of Pennsylvania.

A lot of folks associate New York State with New York City and that's
just plain wrong.

I've hunted and fished in places in New York State that look like the
forest primeval. Same holds true for Pennsyltucky.

It's fun to break balls about States and such, but the real truth is
about the difference between the urban/suburban environment and what
goes on out in the sticks - which are often only a few miles away from
the megalopolis stuff.

My guess is that I have more in common with a guy from a rural section
of whatever State he's from than I do with the urban denizens of my
own area.

Right on the money as always Tom. I live in NY, but just about as far as you
can get from the "Rotten Apple" and still be in the same state. Jamestown is
approx. 40-45K population(maybe less by now). I can drive 5mi. in any
direction to find dairy country. Within 10mi. @ least 5 or 6 Maple Syrup
producers. Within 20mi good hunting, our own Chautauqua Lake where the ice
fishing just ended a week or so ago, the "bullhead" are warming up, and
before we know it, Crappie & Walleye will be in full swing. Used to be very
well known for Muskie, and they claim about half the Muskie lakes all over
the Northeast were "seeded" from Chautauqua lake stock. Muskie are fading
out though, as the Walleye are taking over.

Think about it - look @ a NY state map. Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse,
Binghamton, Albany, & that big cancr down there @ the mouth of the Hudson
River! The rest is mostly little & middlin' size stuff with a whole lot of
nothin' in between.

--
Nahmie
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving
safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, 'WOW! What A
Ride!'"




---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.639 / Virus Database: 408 - Release Date: 3/22/2004

Norm Crow writes:

Think about it - look @ a NY state map. Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse,
Binghamton, Albany, & that big cancr down there @ the mouth of the Hudson
River! The rest is mostly little & middlin' size stuff with a whole lot of
nothin' in between.


I've always tried to explain to Virginians that NY had most of its people in
the areas you name, leaving huge empty tracts for the rest of the 17 million.
What is it, roughly 14 million in the areas of huge population, 6 million acres
for the Adirondack Preserve, and on and on. IIRC, the Adirondack Preserve is
the largest of its kind in the world.

The only problems noted with mid-state and true upstate NY are the still fairly
high sales tax, and the fairly high state tax are still in place. Everything
else is like real life.

Charlie Self
"It is not strange... to mistake change for progress." Millard Fillmore

"Tom Watson" wrote in message

My guess is that I have more in common with a guy from a rural section
of whatever State he's from than I do with the urban denizens of my
own area.

I believe you're right.

Uncle Teet was here from Gurdon, Arkansas a couple of weeks back. He's right
about 80 (an age that doesn't seem all that out of reach anymore), was a
woodworker his entire life (apparently out of necessity for part of it), and
often waves that badge of an old time woodworker, the stub of a ring finger,
to punctuate a remark. Although he can only move about enough to make bird
houses and turkey calls these days, he makes them "by the dozens", to hear
Aunt Marianne tell it.

Uncle Teet's lived in rural Arkansas his entire life - outside a town most
folks pass though without ever realizing they've been there - and you could
tell he couldn't quite figure out what to make of Houston, although he
blamed his anxiety (out of country politeness, I am certain) on "passing
that big kidney stone last week". After all, he'd only made the trip to
these parts to see, almost certainly for the last time, a dying half-sister
he hadn't seen in 30 years over in San Antone, and Houston was a necessary
evil of a stopover on the way back. Everyone said you'd never get him to
stay past the next day.

That first evening SWMBO showed him through the house, pointed out my
furniture and stuff, as she's wont to do, and Uncle Teet kept his counsel
and didn't' say much, until I offered to take him out to the shop the next
morning. Shucks ... a stick of dynamite couldn't of moved him out of there
for the next two days. When he wasn't sitting on a stool in the shop knee
deep in sawdust, he was looking out the kitchen window to see if that was
where I was ... like a kid looking out the window to see if his neighborhood
pal was let out of the house for the day. I think he was disappointed the
second morning when I wasn't out there at 5 AM sharp.

Thinking back on his visit, I can't remember when I've enjoyed anything as
much as having Uncle Teet sitting in my shop. He didn't talk a lot, mostly
just sat and watched, but he had a look of approval in his eye that was, as
they say on the commercials, priceless. When he left to go back home, two
days later (reluctantly, I do believe), he was carrying a chunk of my
cocobolo that was about the right size for a couple of "turkey call
experiments", and he promised me a truckload of white oak, if he had to
bring it down here himself.

You gotta understand that, until this visit, Uncle Teet was not blood kin
.....

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/02/04

On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:54:10 -0500, "Swingman" wrote:

snipped - reluctantly - for brevity

You gotta understand that, until this visit, Uncle Teet was not blood kin
....

Hot Damn! That was a good one, Swing.

Hope you get that load of White - but you know as well as I do - it
don't really matter if you don't - the good stuff was already there.

Thanks.



Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret)
Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

"Swingman" wrote in message
Thinking back on his visit, I can't remember when I've enjoyed anything as
much as having Uncle Teet sitting in my shop. He didn't talk a lot, mostly
just sat and watched, but he had a look of approval in his eye that was,
as
they say on the commercials, priceless.

You gotta understand that, until this visit, Uncle Teet was not blood kin

Nice story. The old guy probably felt 50 years younger sitting out in the
shop. You can bet he enjoyed it immensely. Everyone should have an uncle
like that in their life.
Ed

I ate all the things I shouldn't have: Philly cheese steak
sandwich, fries, and a monster desert. I was doing fine for
about 5 hours, then it started to rise. I stayed up until I
knew it wouldn't go any higher, around 2:30 AM.

thanks!

dave

patriarch wrote:

Bay Area Dave wrote in
om:



I got right in at 5 PM tonight at Cheesecake factory at the
new Oakridge Mall. How's that for luck. We usually walk in
and walk out because the wait is so long.

dave


And that's why your blood sugar spiked, right?

Speaking as the spouse of a diabetic (type 2), I'm beginning to share the
problems with sleep habits, etc.

Take care of yourself.

Patriarch

On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:37:55 -0400, "Norman D. Crow"
wrote:


snipped only to appease the bandwidth gods.


Think about it - look @ a NY state map. Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse,
Binghamton, Albany, & that big cancr down there @ the mouth of the Hudson
River! The rest is mostly little & middlin' size stuff with a whole lot of
nothin' in between.


I hear ya, Nahmie - and Charlie Self, too - in the following post.

I'm going to use this opportunity to get on my high horse about
something that has always ****ed me off.

Most of the people who do the making and baking - the hunting and
fishing - the child raising and life making - the saving and the
scraping to get by - don't live in urban areas.

Yet, the media, which allegedly holds the "mirror up to nature", is
mostly located in highly urbanized centers.

I kinda don't figger that I'm the reflection in that mirror.

People in urban areas don't hold the same values as those who live
outside those areas. They never have - and they never will.

I'm guessing this goes back at least to the Roman times - when a Pagan
(pagano) was a country fella - in contradistinction to those who were
saved - by being city fellas.

What a crock.

I don't like the fact that my twelve year old daughter thinks that she
has to be like B. Spears - just because she's on TV. I don't like
those people that my wife watches on "Survivor", nor any of the little
pricks who are on the shows that pass as Family Hour Entertainment.

I'm not ready to go totally Amish, but I'd damned sure like to shut
off the city media and its influence on people who should know better
- and who already live better.

I guess I've gotten too curmudgeonly over the years - Andy Rooney
seems like a moderate to me - but this whole culture - as it is
presented to us on the mass media - is a total POS in my estimation.

We are no longer a culture involved in the making of things.

We are only interested in managing the making of things.

At least, that's what I see on my television, my
used-to-be-local-but-now-a-part-of- blah blah publications newspaper -
and the gay and lesbian stations on the radio (formerly PBS).

Tired of it.

There are still vast areas of this country where a man's word is his
bond - won't see that much on TV. There are still huge sectors of our
country where a neighbor will be helped out of common human decency -
but I don't see that reflected in that media mirror.

This rant is wandering a good bit - and so I'll shut it off. I still
meet good people - and I meet them in all kinds of places - but the
culture (writ large) that I live in - doesn't give them the respect or
encouragement that they deserve.

This saddens me greatly.




Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret)
Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

Swingman writes:

snip of a great start

Thinking back on his visit, I can't remember when I've enjoyed anything as
much as having Uncle Teet sitting in my shop. He didn't talk a lot, mostly
just sat and watched, but he had a look of approval in his eye that was, as
they say on the commercials, priceless. When he left to go back home, two
days later (reluctantly, I do believe), he was carrying a chunk of my
cocobolo that was about the right size for a couple of "turkey call
experiments", and he promised me a truckload of white oak, if he had to
bring it down here himself.

You gotta understand that, until this visit, Uncle Teet was not blood kin

There are never enough days like that in our lives. But maybe if there were
more, we'd appreciate them less.

Charlie Self
"It is not strange... to mistake change for progress." Millard Fillmore

Tom Watson writes:

There are still vast areas of this country where a man's word is his
bond - won't see that much on TV. There are still huge sectors of our
country where a neighbor will be helped out of common human decency -
but I don't see that reflected in that media mirror.

And you'll find in future fewer and fewer of those good people because of it.

A quick question: there's a show, such as it is, called American Idol. I've
watched parts of it twice. There's a little Brit accented prick on there who is
the nastiest piece of work I've ever seen on the idjit box--real life style,
sorta. Don't know his name, but he's easy enough to spot once the mouths move.

Dop they pay that little piece of ****, or do they just refrain from torturing
and killing him.

Charlie Self
"It is not strange... to mistake change for progress." Millard Fillmore

"Tom Watson" wrote in message

I kinda don't figger that I'm the reflection in that mirror.
snip

I don't like the fact that my twelve year old daughter thinks that she
has to be like B. Spears - just because she's on TV.

much of felt frustration snipped

You speak for many, and you speak well!

I am not a religious man, but I thank God daily that my 18 year old
daughter, raised in one of the biggest cities in the county, sees through
that crap like she was born with x-ray vision.

I've tried hard since she's been sentient to teach her to know the
difference, and I can't help but think that the fact that she "got it" early
on can be laid directly at the feet of my own "rural roots".

Not to say that you have to be from the country to raise a good citizen, but
I pity the kids who never have had the opportunity to see life through a
lens unclouded by the noise of "urban pop culture".

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/02/04

On 07 Apr 2004 01:18:46 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:


A quick question: there's a show, such as it is, called American Idol. I've
watched parts of it twice. There's a little Brit accented prick on there who is
the nastiest piece of work I've ever seen on the idjit box--real life style,
sorta. Don't know his name, but he's easy enough to spot once the mouths move.

Dop they pay that little piece of ****, or do they just refrain from torturing
and killing him.


That's another one that my wife and daughter watch. I've seen some of
it and the little *******'s name is Simon.

He wouldn't have lasted two minutes around where I grew up.



Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret)
Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

you sound more angry than sad...

dave

Tom Watson wrote:
snip rant

This saddens me greatly.




Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret)
Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

In article , says...


'S' funny, I got exactly the same pics from a friend in OZ, claiming they
were about an oil pipeline being built from Mozambique to Sasolburg,
alongside the National Road to Komatipoort.

Who knows?

Well for one there are no alligators in Southern Africa, crocodiles yes
but they do not look like that and there are no rattlers here either.
No oil pipeline either. There was talk of a gas line though. Somebody
has their wires / facts crossed.
--

Phillip Hansen
Skil-Phil Solutions

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 20:54:36 -0400, Tom Watson
brought forth from the murky depths:

I'm going to use this opportunity to get on my high horse about
something that has always ****ed me off.

Does the Condo Owners' Association know about your fertilizer
plant there, Tawm?


Most of the people who do the making and baking - the hunting and
fishing - the child raising and life making - the saving and the
scraping to get by - don't live in urban areas.

That's right, we don't. (Well, "we" except for the hunting,
fishing, child raising, and life making" part.)


I kinda don't figger that I'm the reflection in that mirror.

People in urban areas don't hold the same values as those who live
outside those areas. They never have - and they never will.

I'm guessing this goes back at least to the Roman times - when a Pagan
(pagano) was a country fella - in contradistinction to those who were
saved - by being city fellas.

What a crock.

I don't like the fact that my twelve year old daughter thinks that she
has to be like B. Spears - just because she's on TV. I don't like
those people that my wife watches on "Survivor", nor any of the little
pricks who are on the shows that pass as Family Hour Entertainment.

I fixed that here. When I had to move to Satellite TV, I chose to
opt out of the local channels and network channels. You wouldn't
believe ho much peace there is in NOT having those. I still turn
on the local weather report on occasion, and when I watch a full
half hour of the news, complete with 'lebenty seven commercials
for penis wash/vaginal stoppers/NewImprovedSolidSugarFlakes cereal
and all the other goodies, I realize just how good I have it. I
can turn it off and not go back for a month. Whew! Besides, the
Weather Channel has nice jazz music background and really cute
chicks. What more could a guy ask for? (No, no, no, _besides_ a
real weather report.)



I'm not ready to go totally Amish, but I'd damned sure like to shut
off the city media and its influence on people who should know better
- and who already live better.

Wow, a steam-powered, overhead line, leather-belt driven Normite
shop like this? http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/edhtml/shop.jpg
Got GIFs or JPGs yet?


I guess I've gotten too curmudgeonly over the years - Andy Rooney
seems like a moderate to me - but this whole culture - as it is
presented to us on the mass media - is a total POS in my estimation.

Y'mean Andy's -not- a moderate?


We are no longer a culture involved in the making of things.

We are only interested in managing the making of things.

Most of us on the Wreck are of the former culture. Ditto the
rec.metalheads and most of the .sci readers.


At least, that's what I see on my television, my
used-to-be-local-but-now-a-part-of- blah blah publications newspaper -
and the gay and lesbian stations on the radio (formerly PBS).

Tired of it.

Me, too. If the idiotic media would just stop feigning iration
(izzat a word?) over any given 2 people in love, the "problem"
would simply go away. Psychology, history, and human behavior
tell us that banning things doesn't work and usually has an
increased opposite effect.


There are still vast areas of this country where a man's word is his
bond - won't see that much on TV. There are still huge sectors of our
country where a neighbor will be helped out of common human decency -
but I don't see that reflected in that media mirror.

No, "nice" doesn't sell advertising. That's what drives the
media nowadays. "News" is secondary to exploitation and selling
SUVs and fake pizza. Have you seen what a small 3x5" display ad
in the local newspaper costs nowadays? In Vista, it was over a
GRAND A WEEK, and that was if I provided camera-ready art. I don't
even want to think what a NYT or LATte ad costs. How many mil to
put half a minute on the Stupor Bowel?


This rant is wandering a good bit - and so I'll shut it off. I still
meet good people - and I meet them in all kinds of places - but the
culture (writ large) that I live in - doesn't give them the respect or
encouragement that they deserve.

This saddens me greatly.

Hear, hear! And when you look around and see the corruption in
politics (both sides of the aisle), Faith-Based preemptive wars
being started over oil, Americans being herded, rights being taken
away in the name of totally false "security", it's obviously time to

REBOOT AMERICA!






-------------------------------------------------
- Boldly going - * Wondrous Website Design
- nowhere. - * http://www.diversify.com
-------------------------------------------------

otforme (Charlie Self) wrote in
:

Swingman writes:

snip of a great start

Thinking back on his visit, I can't remember when I've enjoyed
anything as much as having Uncle Teet sitting in my shop. He didn't
talk a lot, mostly just sat and watched, but he had a look of approval
in his eye that was, as they say on the commercials, priceless. When
he left to go back home, two days later (reluctantly, I do believe),
he was carrying a chunk of my cocobolo that was about the right size
for a couple of "turkey call experiments", and he promised me a
truckload of white oak, if he had to bring it down here himself.

You gotta understand that, until this visit, Uncle Teet was not blood
kin

There are never enough days like that in our lives. But maybe if there
were more, we'd appreciate them less.

Charlie Self
"It is not strange... to mistake change for progress." Millard
Fillmore


Sunday evening, I'm whipped & tired, from a long weekend of everything,
plus a little. I'm sitting in the most comfortable chair in the house,
falling asleep to Norm on the Tivo, about 8:30. My wife is at her sister's
place, playing Scrabble, when the telephone rings. I almost didn't answer
it, but it's Stanley.

Stanley's a little like Uncle Teet. Well out of warranty, if you know what
I mean. He just wants to drop by for a couple of minutes - he's got
something for me. By the time we get done visiting, he's brought me a
piece of mahogany veneer, hand cut, and a box of brass knobs he won't ever
have a use for, but mostly he's cheered me up, and nudged me forward, and
helped me realize how much I've learned in the last couple of years.

We all need Stanley's in our life.

Patriarch

The difference is, California deserves it.

"Bruce" wrote in message
...
I do have a sense of humor, as can be seen by some
of my reply. However, how would you feel if we
start with some black jokes or some Jew jokes?
Maybe we can make fun of the stupid crazy folks from
Mexico! Yeah, sure is funny stuff! I'll bet you can't
see any comparison here. "Hey, I'm just kidding!"
The responses to the attempt at humor were evidence
that many people take the OP joke seriously. Just
out of curiosity, how would any of you folks from Canada
take it if we made a long list of derogatory and nasty
stereotypes about Canada. Don't worry, we'll make
some up. That's what was done with Ca.

Bruce
Redding, Ca.

Greatest state in the union? I thought the subject was California.

"Bruce" wrote in message
...


But I'm also very proud of
the greatest state in the Union

Tom Watson wrote:

We are no longer a culture involved in the making of things.

You know better than that. If you don't, then it's time to start
following the links you find in rec.woodworking.

We are only interested in managing the making of things.

I think you know better than that, too.

At least, that's what I see on my television, my
used-to-be-local-but-now-a-part-of- blah blah publications
newspaper - and the gay and lesbian stations on the radio
(formerly PBS).

Have you forgotten to apply Sturgeon's Law? Ninety percent of the
stuff on TV /is/ crap. If you're not selective, then ninety
percent of the time spent watching TV is wasted. If you /are/
selective, you can shrink the waste considerably.

[BTW, this bit of insight might be one of the most useful you
could share with your 12-year old.]

There are still vast areas of this country where a man's word
is his bond - won't see that much on TV. There are still huge
sectors of our country where a neighbor will be helped out of
common human decency - but I don't see that reflected in that
media mirror.

Yabbut it's not geographical. There are good people everywhere
and bad apples everywhere, with the huge majority of people
trying to be the best they know how to be. If you're trying to
see the world though the filter of television, you might miss
this important observation. The media realize sales by peddling
the /unusual/.

I still meet good people - and I meet them in all kinds of
places - but the culture (writ large) that I live in - doesn't
give them the respect or encouragement that they deserve.

Of course not. It never has. How do we fix that?

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA

Tom Watson wrote:

On 07 Apr 2004 01:18:46 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:




A quick question: there's a show, such as it is, called American Idol. I've
watched parts of it twice. There's a little Brit accented prick on there who is
the nastiest piece of work I've ever seen on the idjit box--real life style,
sorta. Don't know his name, but he's easy enough to spot once the mouths move.

Dop they pay that little piece of ****, or do they just refrain from torturing
and killing him.




That's another one that my wife and daughter watch. I've seen some of
it and the little *******'s name is Simon.

He wouldn't have lasted two minutes around where I grew up.



Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret)
Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1


Then he's done his job! That's what they pay him to do. That's what
folks tune in for. Off camera, he's pretty quiet. Me? I'm looking
forward to baseball season to provide background noise while making
sawdust. Other than that, I don't have much use for TV nor do I have
much time for it either. It is evil and has already taken up too much
time in my life! Oh, I could sit in front of it. But it's more fun
gathering up my little ones and taking them out to experience some of
what this country has to offer.

I think I started noticing TV was evil when I saw that cars now have
little screens to watch stuff on. Ask any of the kids in the car how
they got to their destination! Bet they won't know! That'll come in
handy when they get seperated from their folks! Create a whloe
generation that can't find their way!

Mark and Kim Smith remarks:

Then he's done his job! That's what they pay him to do. That's what
folks tune in for. Off camera, he's pretty quiet.

Maybe that's why he's lived this long. His job is to drive people with a brain
off the couch? You'er right, maybe he should be paid for that.

don't have much use for TV nor do I have
much time for it either. It is evil and has already taken up too much
time in my life! Oh, I could sit in front of it.

I fyou can sit in front of it mroe than a half hour, you're a better man than
me, Gunga Din.

Charlie Self
"It is not strange... to mistake change for progress." Millard Fillmore