Nutz. So I finally have something moderately productive to do with this
new $35 gadget. I've got a 3+ inch deep dado in a 4x4, the side of
which were cut on the bandsaw. And rather than chop out the waste, I
figured my new multitool would make short work of it. It zapped thru
the first half inch like the hot knife thru butter, then the blade
loosened. OK, I mustn't have torqued it enough. So for the next 30
minutes, there was more in and out than I had on my wedding night. A
few seconds of cutting then the blade came loose. I finally resorted to
the old hammer and chisel. Multimaster? Not.

Any tips from any of you guys who went for the same deal?

Larry

On Mon, 01 Jun 2009 21:35:50 -0500, TD Driver
wrote:

Nutz. So I finally have something moderately productive to do with this
new $35 gadget. I've got a 3+ inch deep dado in a 4x4, the side of
which were cut on the bandsaw. And rather than chop out the waste, I
figured my new multitool would make short work of it. It zapped thru
the first half inch like the hot knife thru butter, then the blade
loosened. OK, I mustn't have torqued it enough. So for the next 30
minutes, there was more in and out than I had on my wedding night. A
few seconds of cutting then the blade came loose. I finally resorted to
the old hammer and chisel. Multimaster? Not.

Any tips from any of you guys who went for the same deal?

Larry

....$35 Multimaster...er...yeah. I bought the real thing when it was
expensive and some of the situations that it's handled for me in the
field have made it worth 4 times as much.

cg

TD Driver wrote:

snip HF tale of woe

You got what you paid for.

What's to bitch about?

Lew

Charlie Groh writes:


...$35 Multimaster...er...yeah. I bought the real thing when it was
expensive......

What? It's got cheap while I wasn't looking?

nb

TD Driver wrote:

Nutz. So I finally have something moderately productive to do with this
new $35 gadget. I've got a 3+ inch deep dado in a 4x4, the side of
which were cut on the bandsaw. And rather than chop out the waste, I
figured my new multitool would make short work of it. It zapped thru
the first half inch like the hot knife thru butter, then the blade
loosened. OK, I mustn't have torqued it enough. So for the next 30
minutes, there was more in and out than I had on my wedding night. A
few seconds of cutting then the blade came loose. I finally resorted to
the old hammer and chisel. Multimaster? Not.

Any tips from any of you guys who went for the same deal?

Larry
I bought one just to see if it worked. Used it the other day to cut out
drywall for electrical boxes, worked great. Then tried it on some baseboard
I needed to trim for wider case molding, worked great except the blade did
loosen. I did have to tighten it a few times. Would have been better if the
designer would have used the metal dowels to hold blade in place. But for
35 dollars it worked with some frustration.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/

TD Driver wrote:
Nutz. So I finally have something moderately productive to do with
this new $35 gadget. I've got a 3+ inch deep dado in a 4x4, the side
of which were cut on the bandsaw. And rather than chop out the
waste, I figured my new multitool would make short work of it. It
zapped thru the first half inch like the hot knife thru butter, then
the blade loosened. OK, I mustn't have torqued it enough. So for
the next 30 minutes, there was more in and out than I had on my
wedding night. A few seconds of cutting then the blade came loose. I
finally resorted to the old hammer and chisel. Multimaster? Not.

Any tips from any of you guys who went for the same deal?


Suggestions:
* Did you use the grippy washer thingy?
* You have really honk the bolt down double-tight (spot welding helps). A
long-shaft allen wrench might help.
*Use less pressure - let the tool do the work.
* Perhaps the depth of the cut was so great that the wood was grabbing the
blade. You're holding the tool. Something's got to give.
* Try a 3/8" lock washer as part of the setup.

TD Driver wrote:
Nutz. So I finally have something moderately productive to do with
this new $35 gadget. I've got a 3+ inch deep dado in a 4x4, the side
of which were cut on the bandsaw. And rather than chop out the
waste, I figured my new multitool would make short work of it. It
zapped thru the first half inch like the hot knife thru butter, then
the blade loosened. OK, I mustn't have torqued it enough. So for
the next 30 minutes, there was more in and out than I had on my
wedding night. A few seconds of cutting then the blade came loose.
I finally resorted to the old hammer and chisel. Multimaster? Not.

Any tips from any of you guys who went for the same deal?

If the motion of the blade is constrained by its knocking against an edge or
the like then the blade on the original Multimaster comes loose too. I've
had that happen more than once. Fein recognized the problem and changed the
blade mount on the second or third generation to one that is star shaped.
There is an adapter that has carbide teeth on the back to bite into the
platen and prevent such loosening when using newer blades, but it would only
work with Fein brand blades, not Harbor Freight which I Ibelieve have the
round hole--the adapter is available for about ten bucks from Woodcraft. If
you're willing to use only Fein blades you can have it spot welded so that
there's no possibility of it moving, but a three pack of Fein E-cut blades
costs more than the whole Harbor Freight tool so you may not want to do
that.

The real trick though on deep plunges is to make sure that the cut is always
wide enough to allow the blade full movement. That means cutting it a half
inch or so deep then moving to a different spot until you've cut the whole
width a half inch or so, then coming back and cutting another half inch or
so until you're done.

If you've got some reaction wood that is binding the blade you may need to
make a clearance cut as well, taking out little wedge shaped pieces, but
that's rare.

Incidentally, if you decide to get Fein blades it pays to shop around--I
don't know what gives with the pricing but it's bizarre. What's expensive
one place is cheap another and vice versa (with "cheap" being a relative
term--Fein blades are all ludicrously expensive for what they are).

"HeyBub" writes:


Suggestions:
* Did you use the grippy washer thingy?

heh heh..... Is that the official manual term?

* You have really honk the bolt down double-tight (spot welding
helps).

This thing only come with one blade/cutter?

* Try a 3/8" lock washer as part of the setup.

Sounds like a classic case of you get what you pay for.

nb

On Jun 1, 10:35*pm, TD Driver wrote:
Nutz. *So I finally have something moderately productive to do with this
new $35 gadget. *I've got a 3+ inch deep dado in a 4x4, the side of
which were cut on the bandsaw. *And rather than chop out the waste, I
figured *my new multitool would make short work of it. *It zapped thru
the first half inch like the hot knife thru butter, then the blade
loosened. *OK, I mustn't have torqued it enough. *So for the next 30
minutes, there was more in and out than I had on my wedding night. *A
few seconds of cutting then the blade came loose. *I finally resorted to
the old hammer and chisel. *Multimaster? *Not.

Any tips from any of you guys who went for the same deal?

Larry

Where did you find a Fein Multimaster for $35??

BTW, I need more blades right now, anyone know a good inexpensive
place to buy them online. None of my local suppliers carry them.

Thanks,
David

Amigo108 wrote:
On Jun 1, 10:35 pm, TD Driver wrote:
Nutz. So I finally have something moderately productive to do with
this new $35 gadget. I've got a 3+ inch deep dado in a 4x4, the side
of which were cut on the bandsaw. And rather than chop out the
waste, I figured my new multitool would make short work of it. It
zapped thru the first half inch like the hot knife thru butter, then
the blade loosened. OK, I mustn't have torqued it enough. So for the
next 30 minutes, there was more in and out than I had on my wedding
night. A few seconds of cutting then the blade came loose. I finally
resorted to the old hammer and chisel. Multimaster? Not.

Any tips from any of you guys who went for the same deal?

Larry

Where did you find a Fein Multimaster for $35??

BTW, I need more blades right now, anyone know a good inexpensive
place to buy them online. None of my local suppliers carry them.


I believe the Dremel blades will fit.

HF has an assortment of blades for their tool. A five-pack is $6.95 or
thereabouts. They may fit your high-priced model.

wrote:
"HeyBub" writes:


Suggestions:
* Did you use the grippy washer thingy?

heh heh..... Is that the official manual term?

No, but I couldn't pronounce the Chinese name.


* Try a 3/8" lock washer as part of the setup.

Sounds like a classic case of you get what you pay for.


No, but if you're handicapped, you have additional concerns and expenses.

I learned to tighten the bolt as far as it would go, then 1/8th turn more. I
assumed the OP had a strength problem and could use some mechanical help.

I cranked down on that sumbitch as hard as I could, but I'm getting to
be an old guy. I was thinking of having SWMBO come out and yell at it
some. As someone noted, ya gets what ya pays for. I'll reserve this
for thinner stuff and break out hammer and chisels for this piece of work.

Larry

HeyBub wrote:
wrote:
"HeyBub" writes:


Suggestions:
* Did you use the grippy washer thingy?
heh heh..... Is that the official manual term?

No, but I couldn't pronounce the Chinese name.

* Try a 3/8" lock washer as part of the setup.
Sounds like a classic case of you get what you pay for.


No, but if you're handicapped, you have additional concerns and expenses.

I learned to tighten the bolt as far as it would go, then 1/8th turn more. I
assumed the OP had a strength problem and could use some mechanical help.

On Jun 1, 10:35*pm, TD Driver wrote:
Nutz. *So I finally have something moderately productive to do with this
new $35 gadget. *I've got a 3+ inch deep dado in a 4x4, the side of
which were cut on the bandsaw. *And rather than chop out the waste, I
figured *my new multitool would make short work of it. *It zapped thru
the first half inch like the hot knife thru butter, then the blade
loosened. *OK, I mustn't have torqued it enough. *So for the next 30
minutes, there was more in and out than I had on my wedding night. *A
few seconds of cutting then the blade came loose. *I finally resorted to
the old hammer and chisel. *Multimaster? *Not.

Any tips from any of you guys who went for the same deal?

Larry

hi, got the same problem.

$35 from:


SISTERS OF ST. FRANCIS HOUSE OF PROSTITUTION

"J. Clarke" writes:


had that happen more than once. Fein recognized the problem and changed the
blade mount on the second or third generation to one that is star shaped.
There is an adapter that has carbide teeth on the back to bite into the
platen and prevent such loosening when using newer blades......

I'm surprised the shaft is not keyed in some way. A couple of
opposing parallel flats on the shaft end with similarly keyed blades
and washer or cupped washer would seem a simple solution.

nb

wrote:

"J. Clarke" writes:


had that happen more than once. Fein recognized the problem and changed
the blade mount on the second or third generation to one that is star
shaped. There is an adapter that has carbide teeth on the back to bite
into the platen and prevent such loosening when using newer blades......

I'm surprised the shaft is not keyed in some way. A couple of
opposing parallel flats on the shaft end with similarly keyed blades
and washer or cupped washer would seem a simple solution.

nb
I'd say a stupid simple solution! But Nooooooooo Idiots designing tools
that never use them.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/

evodawg writes:


I'd say a stupid simple solution! But Nooooooooo Idiots designing tools
that never use them.

Do you have good opposing argument or are you just an obnoxious ass?

nb

evodawg wrote:
wrote:

"J. Clarke" writes:


had that happen more than once. Fein recognized the problem and
changed the blade mount on the second or third generation to one
that is star shaped. There is an adapter that has carbide teeth on
the back to bite into the platen and prevent such loosening when
using newer blades......

I'm surprised the shaft is not keyed in some way. A couple of
opposing parallel flats on the shaft end with similarly keyed blades
and washer or cupped washer would seem a simple solution.

nb
I'd say a stupid simple solution! But Nooooooooo Idiots designing
tools that never use them.

Flats wouldn't work--they'd lock you into a single blade orientation.
That's why the star, it allows a range of blade orientations.

"J. Clarke" writes:


Flats wouldn't work--they'd lock you into a single blade orientation.
That's why the star, it allows a range of blade orientations.

DOH!

Of course you are right. I didn't even consider. Thanks for the
clue.

nb

wrote:

evodawg writes:


I'd say a stupid simple solution! But Nooooooooo Idiots designing tools
that never use them.

Do you have good opposing argument or are you just an obnoxious ass?

nb
Yeah I do but nothing you'd be interested in. And Yes I'm an obnoxious ass.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/

J. Clarke wrote:

evodawg wrote:
wrote:

"J. Clarke" writes:


had that happen more than once. Fein recognized the problem and
changed the blade mount on the second or third generation to one
that is star shaped. There is an adapter that has carbide teeth on
the back to bite into the platen and prevent such loosening when
using newer blades......

I'm surprised the shaft is not keyed in some way. A couple of
opposing parallel flats on the shaft end with similarly keyed blades
and washer or cupped washer would seem a simple solution.

nb
I'd say a stupid simple solution! But Nooooooooo Idiots designing
tools that never use them.

Flats wouldn't work--they'd lock you into a single blade orientation.
That's why the star, it allows a range of blade orientations.
You could put dowels in the holder at different locations and holes in the
blade that would allow you to turn the blade and lock it to a desired
position. Not the entire 360 degree but points in between.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/

On Jun 1, 9:35*pm, TD Driver wrote
Multimaster? *Not.

Any tips from any of you guys who went for the same deal?

Larry

Larry

IME HFT are great about returns. Take it back, get your money or try a
replacement unit. Low mfg tolerances may be the reason they sell a
high number of duds in this design or it could be they don't have a
good design. I would take it back for an exchange if I thought it was
a matter of tolerances or similar and for money back if I determined
it was a poor design.

evodawg writes:


Yeah I do but nothing you'd be interested in.

If dowels is the best you can do, you're right.

And Yes I'm an obnoxious ass.

Well then, ESADA!

nb

On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 09:01:09 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Jun 1, 9:35*pm, TD Driver wrote
Multimaster? *Not.

Any tips from any of you guys who went for the same deal?

Larry

Larry

IME HFT are great about returns. Take it back, get your money or try a
replacement unit. Low mfg tolerances may be the reason they sell a
high number of duds in this design or it could be they don't have a
good design.


....and the low price affects *all* of this, eh?


I would take it back for an exchange if I thought it was
a matter of tolerances or similar and for money back if I determined
it was a poor design.

....so, you buy a knockoff tool for a *much* lower price than you know
the original to sell for. Then take it home and use it until
frustration sets in; and the realization that maybe it doesn't work
all that well. Then take it back and ask for a refund. What a waste
of time...and, of course, there's no ethical question here, either...

cg

evodawg wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:

evodawg wrote:
wrote:

"J. Clarke" writes:


had that happen more than once. Fein recognized the problem and
changed the blade mount on the second or third generation to one
that is star shaped. There is an adapter that has carbide teeth on
the back to bite into the platen and prevent such loosening when
using newer blades......

I'm surprised the shaft is not keyed in some way. A couple of
opposing parallel flats on the shaft end with similarly keyed
blades and washer or cupped washer would seem a simple solution.

nb
I'd say a stupid simple solution! But Nooooooooo Idiots designing
tools that never use them.

Flats wouldn't work--they'd lock you into a single blade orientation.
That's why the star, it allows a range of blade orientations.
You could put dowels in the holder at different locations and holes
in the blade that would allow you to turn the blade and lock it to a
desired position. Not the entire 360 degree but points in between.

That's what Dremel does.

I don't know why Fein didn't originally put some kind of positive blade
retention on their tool, but they didn't. The round shaft works well enough
most of the time. As I said, they ultimately fixed it and provided a
retrofit accessory for 10 bucks that should also work on the HF.

I can't really fault Harbor Freight because they seem to have been going for
a clone and not a new improved design, and the only way they can make a
completely compatible clone with positive retention is to use the star
retention, which Fein has patented.

I don't know if Dremel has patented the dowel-based retention or not.

Charlie Groh wrote:
On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 09:01:09 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Jun 1, 9:35 pm, TD Driver wrote
Multimaster? Not.

Any tips from any of you guys who went for the same deal?

Larry

Larry

IME HFT are great about returns. Take it back, get your money or try
a replacement unit. Low mfg tolerances may be the reason they sell a
high number of duds in this design or it could be they don't have a
good design.


...and the low price affects *all* of this, eh?


I would take it back for an exchange if I thought it was
a matter of tolerances or similar and for money back if I determined
it was a poor design.

...so, you buy a knockoff tool for a *much* lower price than you know
the original to sell for. Then take it home and use it until
frustration sets in; and the realization that maybe it doesn't work
all that well. Then take it back and ask for a refund. What a waste
of time...and, of course, there's no ethical question here, either...

No, there isn't. He's doing exactly what Harbor Freight's refund policy is
intended to do--you find out that their cheap tool doesn't do what you need
you take it back and then go buy something somewhere else that does.

wrote:

evodawg writes:


Yeah I do but nothing you'd be interested in.

If dowels is the best you can do, you're right.

And Yes I'm an obnoxious ass.

Well then, ESADA!

nb
Oh yeah I forgot you had a better idea. Whatever! Stop wasting my time.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/

Charlie Groh wrote:


...and the low price affects *all* of this, eh?


I would take it back for an exchange if I thought it was
a matter of tolerances or similar and for money back if I determined
it was a poor design.

...so, you buy a knockoff tool for a *much* lower price than you know
the original to sell for. Then take it home and use it until
frustration sets in; and the realization that maybe it doesn't work
all that well. Then take it back and ask for a refund. What a waste
of time...and, of course, there's no ethical question here, either...


1. As long as you're going to HF, it's not a waste of time to get your money
back. I don't make a trip to HD to return a hinge set - I toss it in the
return bin. When the return bin gets full, I take everything back at once,
usually when I'm about to make a big purchase.
2. I don't think there's an ethical question if the tool doesn't function as
you expected.
3. HF's return policy is more than generous. I took back a $9.95 plastic air
hose that burst and they replaced it with a $35, rubber, top-of-the-line
model. I was more than satisfied.

J. Clarke wrote:

evodawg wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:

evodawg wrote:
wrote:

"J. Clarke" writes:


had that happen more than once. Fein recognized the problem and
changed the blade mount on the second or third generation to one
that is star shaped. There is an adapter that has carbide teeth on
the back to bite into the platen and prevent such loosening when
using newer blades......

I'm surprised the shaft is not keyed in some way. A couple of
opposing parallel flats on the shaft end with similarly keyed
blades and washer or cupped washer would seem a simple solution.

nb
I'd say a stupid simple solution! But Nooooooooo Idiots designing
tools that never use them.

Flats wouldn't work--they'd lock you into a single blade orientation.
That's why the star, it allows a range of blade orientations.
You could put dowels in the holder at different locations and holes
in the blade that would allow you to turn the blade and lock it to a
desired position. Not the entire 360 degree but points in between.

That's what Dremel does.

I don't know why Fein didn't originally put some kind of positive blade
retention on their tool, but they didn't. The round shaft works well
enough
most of the time. As I said, they ultimately fixed it and provided a
retrofit accessory for 10 bucks that should also work on the HF.

I can't really fault Harbor Freight because they seem to have been going
for a clone and not a new improved design, and the only way they can make
a completely compatible clone with positive retention is to use the star
retention, which Fein has patented.

I don't know if Dremel has patented the dowel-based retention or not.

I looked at Dremel at a trade show and the allen screw would not stay tight.
Have heard they have a fix. I'm using the HF a lot and I'm satisfied with
it. It's loosened a couple of times but hey what do you expect for 35.00.
It's still better then using a Japanese saw to undercut and nothing but a
Multi Tool works for cutting baseboard already attached to accommodate
wider door casings.

--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/

wrote:
"J. Clarke" writes:



had that happen more than once. Fein recognized the problem and changed the
blade mount on the second or third generation to one that is star shaped.
There is an adapter that has carbide teeth on the back to bite into the
platen and prevent such loosening when using newer blades......


I'm surprised the shaft is not keyed in some way. A couple of
opposing parallel flats on the shaft end with similarly keyed blades
and washer or cupped washer would seem a simple solution.

nb

I often use my Fein with the blade set to an offset angle due to
clearance problems. The limited access was why I was using the Fein in
the first place.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

evodawg wrote:



Flats wouldn't work--they'd lock you into a single blade orientation.
That's why the star, it allows a range of blade orientations.

You could put dowels in the holder at different locations and holes in the
blade that would allow you to turn the blade and lock it to a desired
position. Not the entire 360 degree but points in between.

I'd try either an internal or external "star" washer of the appropriate
size.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 15:57:28 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Charlie Groh wrote:


...and the low price affects *all* of this, eh?


I would take it back for an exchange if I thought it was
a matter of tolerances or similar and for money back if I determined
it was a poor design.

...so, you buy a knockoff tool for a *much* lower price than you know
the original to sell for. Then take it home and use it until
frustration sets in; and the realization that maybe it doesn't work
all that well. Then take it back and ask for a refund. What a waste
of time...and, of course, there's no ethical question here, either...


1. As long as you're going to HF, it's not a waste of time to get your money
back. I don't make a trip to HD to return a hinge set - I toss it in the
return bin. When the return bin gets full, I take everything back at once,
usually when I'm about to make a big purchase.

HD is my 7/11 and I'm there 3,4,5 times a week...I do the same thing.
My "waste of time" comment referred to the whole dang process... ;0)

2. I don't think there's an ethical question if the tool doesn't function as
you expected.

....all well and good...my point being, I think, just what the hell
*do* you expect? I'd like to think that there's a kernal of "what's
right" in most people, hooked-up to a modicum of intelligence...so,
just for the record, I, personally, wouldn't take back a $35
Multimaster under the circumstances described by the OP...it would be
an object lesson and in the trash can. I *should have* known better.
(believe me, plenty of times I've gone beyond with a tool or whatever
and not tried to get my money back...just as I wouldn't sue Starbux
for hot coffee *I* spilled in my lap).


3. HF's return policy is more than generous. I took back a $9.95 plastic air
hose that burst and they replaced it with a $35, rubber, top-of-the-line
model. I was more than satisfied.

....well, this is perfectly legit, and I think very cool on HF's part
(at least that store)...not the same thing, though, the Multimaster
in question didn't truly break, it just didn't live up to
expectations.

cg

J. Clarke wrote:
had that happen more than once. Fein recognized the problem and
changed the blade mount on the second or third generation to one
that is star shaped. There is an adapter that has carbide teeth on
the back to bite into the platen and prevent such loosening when
using newer blades......
I'm surprised the shaft is not keyed in some way. A couple of
opposing parallel flats on the shaft end with similarly keyed blades
and washer or cupped washer would seem a simple solution.

nb
I'd say a stupid simple solution! But Nooooooooo Idiots designing
tools that never use them.

Flats wouldn't work--they'd lock you into a single blade orientation.
That's why the star, it allows a range of blade orientations.


Used mine, today, to cut 2x4's flush to another 2x.
No loosening.

I looked at it and thought of drilling a hole in the round part that
receives the blade, Then sticking a pressure pin in there to line up
with the holes in the blades. (The Dremel's have a lot of them, evenly
spaced, 360 degrees.)

Just an idea.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

evodawg wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:

evodawg wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:

evodawg wrote:
wrote:

"J. Clarke" writes:


had that happen more than once. Fein recognized the problem and
changed the blade mount on the second or third generation to one
that is star shaped. There is an adapter that has carbide teeth
on the back to bite into the platen and prevent such loosening
when using newer blades......

I'm surprised the shaft is not keyed in some way. A couple of
opposing parallel flats on the shaft end with similarly keyed
blades and washer or cupped washer would seem a simple solution.

nb
I'd say a stupid simple solution! But Nooooooooo Idiots designing
tools that never use them.

Flats wouldn't work--they'd lock you into a single blade
orientation. That's why the star, it allows a range of blade
orientations.
You could put dowels in the holder at different locations and holes
in the blade that would allow you to turn the blade and lock it to a
desired position. Not the entire 360 degree but points in between.

That's what Dremel does.

I don't know why Fein didn't originally put some kind of positive
blade retention on their tool, but they didn't. The round shaft
works well enough
most of the time. As I said, they ultimately fixed it and provided a
retrofit accessory for 10 bucks that should also work on the HF.

I can't really fault Harbor Freight because they seem to have been
going for a clone and not a new improved design, and the only way
they can make a completely compatible clone with positive retention
is to use the star retention, which Fein has patented.

I don't know if Dremel has patented the dowel-based retention or not.

I looked at Dremel at a trade show and the allen screw would not stay
tight. Have heard they have a fix. I'm using the HF a lot and I'm
satisfied with it. It's loosened a couple of times but hey what do
you expect for 35.00.

If it's only loosened a couple of times then it's doing about as well as the
original Fein.

It's still better then using a Japanese saw to
undercut and nothing but a Multi Tool works for cutting baseboard
already attached to accommodate wider door casings.

I would take it back for an exchange if I thought it was
a matter of tolerances or similar and for money back if I determined
it was a poor design.

...so, you buy a knockoff tool for a *much* lower price than you know
the original to sell for. Then take it home and use it until
frustration sets in; and the realization that maybe it doesn't work
all that well. Then take it back and ask for a refund. What a waste
of time...and, of course, there's no ethical question here, either...

cg

Or, you find it works just fine for what you do with it and you keep it.

Or you take it back for a refund, like you said.
They have a return policy, where's the ethical dilemma.

As for time... all I have is time. I use it to build stuff with tools I
buy. :-)

By the way, I've taken back planty of expensive, name-brand tools,
because they sucked.
Quality isn't inherent in higher priced tools, though yeah, the odds are
higher.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

J. Clarke wrote:
No, there isn't. He's doing exactly what Harbor Freight's refund policy is
intended to do--you find out that their cheap tool doesn't do what you need
you take it back and then go buy something somewhere else that does.


They have a giant sign is every store that reads, "100 Percent
Satisfaction Guaranteed" followed by smaller print explaining their very
liberal, customer friendly return policy.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Nova wrote:

evodawg wrote:



Flats wouldn't work--they'd lock you into a single blade orientation.
That's why the star, it allows a range of blade orientations.

You could put dowels in the holder at different locations and holes in
the blade that would allow you to turn the blade and lock it to a desired
position. Not the entire 360 degree but points in between.

I'd try either an internal or external "star" washer of the appropriate
size.

I agree, next time I'm at the hardware store picking up a few.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/

-MIKE- wrote:

J. Clarke wrote:
had that happen more than once. Fein recognized the problem and
changed the blade mount on the second or third generation to one
that is star shaped. There is an adapter that has carbide teeth on
the back to bite into the platen and prevent such loosening when
using newer blades......
I'm surprised the shaft is not keyed in some way. A couple of
opposing parallel flats on the shaft end with similarly keyed blades
and washer or cupped washer would seem a simple solution.

nb
I'd say a stupid simple solution! But Nooooooooo Idiots designing
tools that never use them.

Flats wouldn't work--they'd lock you into a single blade orientation.
That's why the star, it allows a range of blade orientations.


Used mine, today, to cut 2x4's flush to another 2x.
No loosening.

Dang did the same thing today and used a power planner. Should have use the
Multi tool,damn. I have to remember all this thing does!!!

I looked at it and thought of drilling a hole in the round part that
receives the blade, Then sticking a pressure pin in there to line up
with the holes in the blades. (The Dremel's have a lot of them, evenly
spaced, 360 degrees.)

Just an idea.



--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/

evodawg wrote:
Dang did the same thing today and used a power planner. Should have use the
Multi tool,damn. I have to remember all this thing does!!!

Nah, you were right with the planer.
I would've done the same thing, but I was inside and didn't want all the
chips.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Here's an update on this from the OP: I believe that my plan of attack
"trapped" the blade. I chose another angle of attach, supplemented by a
bit of hammer and chisel, and got the job done without much fuss.
Conclusion: the tool is worth the $35 and most of the problem was found
in the dummy operating it.

Larry

Charlie Groh wrote:
On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 15:57:28 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Charlie Groh wrote:

...and the low price affects *all* of this, eh?


I would take it back for an exchange if I thought it was
a matter of tolerances or similar and for money back if I determined
it was a poor design.
...so, you buy a knockoff tool for a *much* lower price than you know
the original to sell for. Then take it home and use it until
frustration sets in; and the realization that maybe it doesn't work
all that well. Then take it back and ask for a refund. What a waste
of time...and, of course, there's no ethical question here, either...

1. As long as you're going to HF, it's not a waste of time to get your money
back. I don't make a trip to HD to return a hinge set - I toss it in the
return bin. When the return bin gets full, I take everything back at once,
usually when I'm about to make a big purchase.

HD is my 7/11 and I'm there 3,4,5 times a week...I do the same thing.
My "waste of time" comment referred to the whole dang process... ;0)

2. I don't think there's an ethical question if the tool doesn't function as
you expected.

...all well and good...my point being, I think, just what the hell
*do* you expect? I'd like to think that there's a kernal of "what's
right" in most people, hooked-up to a modicum of intelligence...so,
just for the record, I, personally, wouldn't take back a $35
Multimaster under the circumstances described by the OP...it would be
an object lesson and in the trash can. I *should have* known better.
(believe me, plenty of times I've gone beyond with a tool or whatever
and not tried to get my money back...just as I wouldn't sue Starbux
for hot coffee *I* spilled in my lap).


3. HF's return policy is more than generous. I took back a $9.95 plastic air
hose that burst and they replaced it with a $35, rubber, top-of-the-line
model. I was more than satisfied.

...well, this is perfectly legit, and I think very cool on HF's part
(at least that store)...not the same thing, though, the Multimaster
in question didn't truly break, it just didn't live up to
expectations.

cg

*What a waste of time...and, of course, there's no ethical question
here, either...

Ethical Question? Let me address that snide comment first.

Regardless the price offered by HFT, the tool is warranted to work as
described and the offer provides for the customer's satisfaction with
the tool for ten days or so. More often than not, the tool lives up to
one's expectations and dies a peaceful death in the bottom of his or
her tool box some distant day after the initial purchase and use.

On the other hand, the experience I read from the OP seemed to
describe a situation in which the tool did not work as advertised,
promised and warranted to.

So suggesting he return it to exchange it or claim a refund is hardly
unethical one my part nor would it be on his.

Every such transaction include, in effect (an often at law) a contract
between vendor and vendee and each has a right to expect the other
will fully comply with the stated terms as well as any law (26 USC, I
believe) that applies.

Last I checked, every product sold comes with an implied warranty of
suitability for intended use (United States Code), though things may
have changed since last I applied same in (Palm Beach, FL) County
Court (Senf vs., General Motors & Adams Chevrolet).

As to the "waste of time issues, you may have a point. If you are
employed and earning sixty-five dollars per hour it would be difficult
to justify an hour round trip and visit to the local HFT much less an
expected return visit to collect the refund as the cost in your time
when added to the price of the discount item will likely approach the
cost of the brand name gizmo.

But if the fine tool costs nearly ten times the price of the HFT
competition and you're an average Joe who visits HFT as much for the
pure shopping enjoyment and picks up generic stuff and expendables as
well as "serious" tools, there was no "cost" to visit as you were
going anyway. And the return-it visit is often combined with a special
coupon or "deal" you've been waiting for.

As I said, my experience with HFT Return Policy has been favorable and
they have often excused the delayed return when the item was in
original packaging, in "as new" condition even when I could no longer
produce the receipt.

If they had a "no returns" policy, they would go out of business in
three weeks. The returns policy is part and parcel of their business
plan and is accounted for generously under "Returns and Allowances."

I've several HFT tools about my shop that I seldom use. A Heat Gun and
a pneumatic file come first to mind although there are lots of others
that fit this category. It is likely that, were I employed in some way
where the use of a heat gum or an air-file were part of my daily
routine, these two would have been tossed or returned and fine
replacements purchased at a significant premium.

You can't look down your nose at the OP for taking HFT up on their
(well-advertised) offers.

If they offer it, try it. If it "works for you," keep it. If not,
exercise the Returrn Policy clause in the implied contract and get a
credit on your Mastercard.