wrote:
If they offer it, try it. If it "works for you," keep it. If not,
exercise the Returrn Policy clause in the implied contract and get a
credit on your Mastercard.

I agree with everything you wrote and just want to point out that their
policy isn't implied, it's specific.

There's a big sign in every store that reads "100 Percent Satisfaction
Guaranteed," along with their generous and clearly worded return policy.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Thu, 4 Jun 2009 18:27:13 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

*What a waste of time...and, of course, there's no ethical question
here, either...

Ethical Question? Let me address that snide comment first.

Regardless the price offered by HFT, the tool is warranted to work as
described and the offer provides for the customer's satisfaction with
the tool for ten days or so. More often than not, the tool lives up to
one's expectations and dies a peaceful death in the bottom of his or
her tool box some distant day after the initial purchase and use.

On the other hand, the experience I read from the OP seemed to
describe a situation in which the tool did not work as advertised,
promised and warranted to.

So suggesting he return it to exchange it or claim a refund is hardly
unethical one my part nor would it be on his.

Every such transaction include, in effect (an often at law) a contract
between vendor and vendee and each has a right to expect the other
will fully comply with the stated terms as well as any law (26 USC, I
believe) that applies.

Last I checked, every product sold comes with an implied warranty of
suitability for intended use (United States Code), though things may
have changed since last I applied same in (Palm Beach, FL) County
Court (Senf vs., General Motors & Adams Chevrolet).

As to the "waste of time issues, you may have a point. If you are
employed and earning sixty-five dollars per hour it would be difficult
to justify an hour round trip and visit to the local HFT much less an
expected return visit to collect the refund as the cost in your time
when added to the price of the discount item will likely approach the
cost of the brand name gizmo.

But if the fine tool costs nearly ten times the price of the HFT
competition and you're an average Joe who visits HFT as much for the
pure shopping enjoyment and picks up generic stuff and expendables as
well as "serious" tools, there was no "cost" to visit as you were
going anyway. And the return-it visit is often combined with a special
coupon or "deal" you've been waiting for.

As I said, my experience with HFT Return Policy has been favorable and
they have often excused the delayed return when the item was in
original packaging, in "as new" condition even when I could no longer
produce the receipt.

If they had a "no returns" policy, they would go out of business in
three weeks. The returns policy is part and parcel of their business
plan and is accounted for generously under "Returns and Allowances."

I've several HFT tools about my shop that I seldom use. A Heat Gun and
a pneumatic file come first to mind although there are lots of others
that fit this category. It is likely that, were I employed in some way
where the use of a heat gum or an air-file were part of my daily
routine, these two would have been tossed or returned and fine
replacements purchased at a significant premium.

You can't look down your nose at the OP for taking HFT up on their
(well-advertised) offers.

If they offer it, try it. If it "works for you," keep it. If not,
exercise the Returrn Policy clause in the implied contract and get a
credit on your Mastercard.


....I stand chided and humble. Good points and many missed by me...


cg

wrote in message
...
snip


As to the "waste of time issues, you may have a point. If you are
employed and earning sixty-five dollars per hour it would be difficult
to justify an hour round trip and visit to the local HFT much less an
expected return visit to collect the refund as the cost in your time
when added to the price of the discount item will likely approach the
cost of the brand name gizmo.

Cannot agree here with this analogy. Even if one is employeed and earining
$1000 per hour it is a very likely chance that he is buying this product
during his "Free Time" Free time does not pay. Regardless of the price if
you are on free time and not being paid, returning the product for a refund
results in you being financially better off providing the cost of the trip,
ware, tear, and gasoline to return the product, does not exceed the value of
the refund.

On Jun 1, 10:35*pm, TD Driver wrote:
Nutz. *So I finally have something moderately productive to do with this
new $35 gadget. *I've got a 3+ inch deep dado in a 4x4, the side of
which were cut on the bandsaw. *And rather than chop out the waste, I
figured *my new multitool would make short work of it. *It zapped thru
the first half inch like the hot knife thru butter, then the blade
loosened. *OK, I mustn't have torqued it enough. *So for the next 30
minutes, there was more in and out than I had on my wedding night. *A
few seconds of cutting then the blade came loose. *I finally resorted to
the old hammer and chisel. *Multimaster? *Not.

Any tips from any of you guys who went for the same deal?

Larry

I had the same loosening problem but I read a thread somewhere about
putting a rubber O-ring on it. I did and it cured the problem.

It may not be a MultiMaster but I sure have gotten my $35 dollars
worth.

Jim

Haven't kept up with the thread. Was using loctite mentioned?


"blackemmons" wrote in message
...
On Jun 1, 10:35 pm, TD Driver wrote:
Nutz. So I finally have something moderately productive to do with this
new $35 gadget. I've got a 3+ inch deep dado in a 4x4, the side of
which were cut on the bandsaw. And rather than chop out the waste, I
figured my new multitool would make short work of it. It zapped thru
the first half inch like the hot knife thru butter, then the blade
loosened. OK, I mustn't have torqued it enough. So for the next 30
minutes, there was more in and out than I had on my wedding night. A
few seconds of cutting then the blade came loose. I finally resorted to
the old hammer and chisel. Multimaster? Not.

Any tips from any of you guys who went for the same deal?

Larry

I had the same loosening problem but I read a thread somewhere about
putting a rubber O-ring on it. I did and it cured the problem.

It may not be a MultiMaster but I sure have gotten my $35 dollars
worth.

Jim

GouldsofDerbyshire wrote:
Haven't kept up with the thread. Was using loctite mentioned?


Not mentioned, but wouldn't Locktite interfere with changing blades?

"HeyBub" wrote:

Not mentioned, but wouldn't Locktite interfere with changing blades?

Not if you pick the right grade.

Lew

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
GouldsofDerbyshire wrote:
Haven't kept up with the thread. Was using loctite mentioned?


Not mentioned, but wouldn't Locktite interfere with changing blades?

Loctite generally causes more problems than it solves. The need is for
getting the fastener tight, not gluing it in a loose position (such as with
loctite).
To get tight and remain that way, the screw is run in until the head
contacts the part to be held and is then turned somewhat further, putting
the screw in tension. Due to the large surface area of the thread
engagement and the 60 degree angle of the threads, they will gal and seize
well before the body of the screw comes under tension. Buy using a high
pressure lubricant on the threads,the screw can be turned enough to put it
under proper tension and it will hold much tighter than it would dry. The
lubricant used must be a high pressure type (Lubriplate, Antisieze, etc.).
Something like 3 in 1 oil will not do it. Putting the body of the screw
under tension is the same way a lock washer works. Though the screw may not
be really tight(due to the galling), the spring pressure of the washer holds
the screw under tension preventing it from loosening. In addition, anyone
that has worked with black pipe will tell you, the pipe will not seal
without the application of Teflon tape or pipe dope before assembly. Pipe
dope and Teflon tape is NOT a sealer. It is a lubricant which enables you to
tighten the threads enough for the threads to make a seal.
The point? Use some anti seize on the screw.

"CW" writes:

Loctite generally causes more problems than it solves. The need is for
getting the fastener tight, not gluing it in a loose position (such as with
loctite).

Fasteners using loctite are not meant to be loose, but tightened to spec.

To get tight and remain that way, the screw is run in until the head
contacts the part to be held and is then turned somewhat further, putting
the screw in tension. Due to the large surface area of the thread
engagement and the 60 degree angle of the threads, they will gal and seize
well before the body of the screw comes under tension.


There is galling and there is GALLING. Torquing a fastener to spec is
putting it under tension and is what holds it and what torque specs
and torque wrenches are for. This causes galling on a microscopic
level whichs is acceptable and does not prevent fasteners from being
torqued to spec multiple times. This is common with many fasteners of
varied materials. Stainless steel IS highly prone to galling, but can
still be torqued to spec without lube and without major galling, but
it's a crap shoot. When SS really galls, you'll know it. That sucker
is welded and will have to be broken to remove.

under proper tension and it will hold much tighter than it would dry. The
lubricant used must be a high pressure type (Lubriplate, Antisieze, etc.).

Good quality lubricants like motor oil, graphite, etc, can
provide adequate lubrication.

Something like 3 in 1 oil will not do it.

Not a great choice, but better than a poke in the eye with a sharp
stick. Also, WD40 is NOT a lubricant.

Putting the body of the screw
under tension is the same way a lock washer works. Though the screw may not
be really tight(due to the galling), the spring pressure of the washer holds
the screw under tension preventing it from loosening.

Lock washers work only partially by tension. The primary
locking mechanism is by the washer digging into and deforming the
fastener/contact points into a nonslip surface.

without the application of Teflon tape or pipe dope before assembly. Pipe
dope and Teflon tape is NOT a sealer. It is a lubricant which enables you to
tighten the threads enough for the threads to make a seal.

You can turn bare pipe threads beyond their max engagement and they
will still leak. You can turn bare pipe threads to optimum
engagement and they won't seal, but upon adding tape/dope and turning
to same level of engagement, sealing occurs. Yes, it is a sealer.
And, yes, it is also a lubricant.

The point? Use some anti seize on the screw.

At the very least, some sort of lubricant is preferred. Even alcohol
is better than nothing. OTOH, using no lubricants whatsoever is
acceptable practice under required conditions, regardless of the
fastener material. Depends on the application.

nb

On Jun 7, 9:13*pm, "CW" wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in message

m... GouldsofDerbyshire wrote:
Haven't kept up with the thread. Was using loctite mentioned?

Not mentioned, but wouldn't Locktite interfere with changing blades?

Loctite generally causes more problems than it solves. The need is for
getting the fastener tight, not gluing it in a loose position (such as with
loctite).
To get tight and remain that way, the screw is run in until the head
contacts the part to be held and is then turned somewhat further, putting
the screw in tension. *Due to the large surface area of the thread
engagement and the 60 degree angle of the threads, they will gal and seize
well before the body of the screw comes under tension. Buy using a high
pressure lubricant on the threads,the screw can be turned enough to put it
under proper tension and it will hold much tighter than it would dry. The
lubricant used must be a high pressure type (Lubriplate, Antisieze, etc.)..
Something like 3 in 1 oil will not do it. * Putting the body of the screw
under tension is the same way a lock washer works. Though the screw may not
be really tight(due to the galling), the spring pressure of the washer holds
the screw under tension preventing it from loosening. In addition, anyone
that has worked with black pipe will tell you, the pipe will not seal
without the application of Teflon tape or pipe dope before assembly. Pipe
dope and Teflon tape is NOT a sealer. It is a lubricant which enables you to
tighten the threads enough for the threads to make a seal.
The point? Use some anti seize on the screw.

So could you just use teflon tape?

"Kevin" wrote in message
...
On Jun 7, 9:13 pm, "CW" wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in message

m... GouldsofDerbyshire
wrote:
Haven't kept up with the thread. Was using loctite mentioned?

Not mentioned, but wouldn't Locktite interfere with changing blades?

Loctite generally causes more problems than it solves. The need is for
getting the fastener tight, not gluing it in a loose position (such as
with
loctite).
To get tight and remain that way, the screw is run in until the head
contacts the part to be held and is then turned somewhat further, putting
the screw in tension. Due to the large surface area of the thread
engagement and the 60 degree angle of the threads, they will gal and seize
well before the body of the screw comes under tension. Buy using a high
pressure lubricant on the threads,the screw can be turned enough to put it
under proper tension and it will hold much tighter than it would dry. The
lubricant used must be a high pressure type (Lubriplate, Antisieze, etc.).
Something like 3 in 1 oil will not do it. Putting the body of the screw
under tension is the same way a lock washer works. Though the screw may
not
be really tight(due to the galling), the spring pressure of the washer
holds
the screw under tension preventing it from loosening. In addition, anyone
that has worked with black pipe will tell you, the pipe will not seal
without the application of Teflon tape or pipe dope before assembly. Pipe
dope and Teflon tape is NOT a sealer. It is a lubricant which enables you
to
tighten the threads enough for the threads to make a seal.
The point? Use some anti seize on the screw.

So could you just use teflon tape?

Yes.

On Tue, 02 Jun 2009 15:42:48 -0500, the infamous TD Driver
scrawled the following:

I cranked down on that sumbitch as hard as I could, but I'm getting to
be an old guy. I was thinking of having SWMBO come out and yell at it
some. As someone noted, ya gets what ya pays for. I'll reserve this
for thinner stuff and break out hammer and chisels for this piece of work.

Here ya go:

Use with a 3/8" breaker bar and wrench on the tool shaft
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=93203

Use these longer allens with a wrench on the tool head:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=96645

And, if you use it only with that blade, try some of this Loctite on
the screw: http://fwd4.me/1Hk If the medium strength (blue, 243)
doesn't hold, try the red (272) schtuff.

--
The only reason I would take up exercising is
so that I could hear heavy breathing again.