The foundation was poured by a contractor in the summer of 02. I've
done almost all the rest of the building myself with help from my son
and friends.

Below is a link to some photos of the place.

http://www.granite.mb.ca/~lorence/

I retired last year and moved in to a somewhat unfinished interior.

Good enough for an old bachelor and a few critters but not quite
complete in the eyes of my new significant other.

I'm about to start the kitchen cupboards. I've done a few small
cabinetry projects in the past with reasonable success. This will be
the biggest I have ever attempted.

I've drawn up the plans, have the time, wood, tools, ambition and just
enough knowledge to make me dangerous.

I am considering ordering drawer slides from Lee Valley. They have
several choices with a significant price difference.

Having been a Lee Vally customer for many years I believe their
products are of good or better than average quality. I have no doubt
that their cheapest drawer slides will be adequate for the job I'm
doing or they wouldn't sell them.

What makes the top end slides worth the extra money?

Are the Tandem plus slides

http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/pa...614,43616&ap=1

that much better than these?

http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/pa...614,43616&ap=1

Are the Blumotion dampers on Tandem slides worth the additional ten
dollars a pair.

I could drive into town and get slides at Home Depot for a lot less
but I doubt they will give me a lifetime guarantee.

I really don't know what to expect with these products. I have limited
experience with them other than to say I have opened and closed
drawers with sliders. I have also opened and closed drawers without
sliders.

Any advice would be appreciated.

LdB

Let me say first I am not a cabinet guy, I build furniture but much of
my work over the years has been done in cabinet shops and I have used
slides on my own projects and had side work and comissions where I
also used them, All that to say, I am no expert.

The two links you show are for two very different things. The
expensive Tandems are undermount slides. They are totally hidden and
haev some more enginerrng and a few more complex parts. The others are
pretty much the industry standard of what I see mounted in all cabs
standard being built today. For folks that pay for dovetailed drawers,
they like the undermounts so you don't see the slides.

On Dec 14, 9:34*pm, LdB wrote:
The foundation was poured by a contractor in the summer of 02. I've
done almost all the rest of the building myself with help from my son
and friends.

Below is a link to some photos of the place.

* *http://www.granite.mb.ca/~lorence/

I retired last year and moved in to a somewhat unfinished interior.

Good enough for an old bachelor and a few critters but not quite
complete in the eyes of my new significant other.

I'm about to start the kitchen cupboards. I've done a few small
cabinetry projects in the past with reasonable success. This will be
the biggest I have ever attempted.

I've drawn up the plans, have the time, wood, tools, ambition and just
enough knowledge to make me dangerous.

I am considering ordering drawer slides from Lee Valley. They have
several choices with a significant price difference.

Having been a Lee Vally customer for many years I believe their
products are of good or better than average quality. I have no doubt
that their cheapest drawer slides will be adequate for the job I'm
doing or they wouldn't sell them.

What makes the top end slides worth the extra money?

Are the Tandem plus slides

http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/pa...&cat=3,43614,4...

that much better than these?

http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/pa...&cat=3,43614,4...

Are the Blumotion dampers on Tandem slides worth the additional ten
dollars a pair.

I could drive into town and get slides at Home Depot for a lot less
but I doubt they will give me a lifetime guarantee.

I really don't know what to expect with these products. I have limited
experience with them other than to say I have opened and closed
drawers with sliders. I have also opened and closed drawers without
sliders.

Any advice would be appreciated.

LdB

"LdB" wrote in message
...
The foundation was poured by a contractor in the summer of 02. I've done
almost all the rest of the building myself with help from my son and
friends.

Below is a link to some photos of the place.

http://www.granite.mb.ca/~lorence/

I retired last year and moved in to a somewhat unfinished interior.

Good enough for an old bachelor and a few critters but not quite complete
in the eyes of my new significant other.

I'm about to start the kitchen cupboards. I've done a few small cabinetry
projects in the past with reasonable success. This will be the biggest I
have ever attempted.

I've drawn up the plans, have the time, wood, tools, ambition and just
enough knowledge to make me dangerous.

I am considering ordering drawer slides from Lee Valley. They have several
choices with a significant price difference.

Having been a Lee Vally customer for many years I believe their products
are of good or better than average quality. I have no doubt that their
cheapest drawer slides will be adequate for the job I'm doing or they
wouldn't sell them.

What makes the top end slides worth the extra money?

Are the Tandem plus slides

http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/pa...614,43616&ap=1

that much better than these?

http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/pa...614,43616&ap=1

Are the Blumotion dampers on Tandem slides worth the additional ten
dollars a pair.

I could drive into town and get slides at Home Depot for a lot less but I
doubt they will give me a lifetime guarantee.

I really don't know what to expect with these products. I have limited
experience with them other than to say I have opened and closed drawers
with sliders. I have also opened and closed drawers without sliders.

Any advice would be appreciated.

LdB


I built my house and cabinets 20 years ago. I didn't make the drawers and
simply installed cupboard doors over the openings. Worked fine until a
woman moved in recently. I have been busy making about 60 drawers since.
Home Depot slides were fine for me.

My slides were good for 75 pounds. The slides you are considering carry 100
pounds. They also are full extension where as mine are not. The Tandem
Plus slides have only a 3/8" gap at the sides compared to a more normal 1/2"
gap. They would not be my choice for a face frame cabinet which is the type
of cabinet I build. The lifetime guarantee may not mean much.

I don't know what you think you will get out of a lifetime warranty or
why you will need one, but I don't think I would worry much about
that. I would look for slides that 1) work well under load when
installed, 2) are finished (epoxy, chrome, etc.) so they don't rust
and can be cleaned, 3) affordable and 4) easy to install.

Check out this recent thread. It has hinge and slide information and
links on it.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.w...se_frm/thread/
b0c00327207133d2

Robert

wrote in message
I don't know what you think you will get out of a lifetime warranty or
why you will need one, but I don't think I would worry much about

Maybe he's optimistic about living (and never moving) for a long, long,
time.

that. I would look for slides that 1) work well under load when
installed, 2) are finished (epoxy, chrome, etc.) so they don't rust
and can be cleaned, 3) affordable and 4) easy to install.

Yup, all good suggestions. And something else that I'd look into if it was
me, are self closing drawer slides and soft close drawer slides or a
combination of both. Nothing peeves me off more than cracking a body part on
the corner of a drawer that I'd thought I'd shoved hard enough to close.

They're fairly new technology within the last few years as far as drawer
slides go, but technology marches on.

LdB wrote:

I am considering ordering drawer slides from Lee Valley. They have
several choices with a significant price difference.

Having been a Lee Vally customer for many years I believe their
products are of good or better than average quality. I have no doubt
that their cheapest drawer slides will be adequate for the job I'm
doing or they wouldn't sell them.

What makes the top end slides worth the extra money?

They move heavy loads smoothly. You don't need them.
___________________

I could drive into town and get slides at Home Depot for a lot less
but I doubt they will give me a lifetime guarantee.

You don't need one.
__________________

Any advice would be appreciated.

Do yourself a favor and buy your slides here...
http://wwhardware.com/catalog.cfm/gr...rawer%20Slides
Both KV and Blum are decent brands.

There are two basic types of slides...those with ball bearings and those
with acetal rollers. Both require rather close tolerances in drawer to
opening width but IME the latter are a bit more forgiving. I think their
action is smoother too. I'd suggest the Blum 230M...
http://wwhardware.com/catalog.cfm/Gr... ated%20Slides

Those are side mount but are "L" shaped...the bottom of the "L" goes under
the drawer side which means you don't have to worry about mounting the slide
parallel to it.

Full extension is nice but not often truly necessary. Ditto self closing.
Ditto "stay closed" (if the drawer is level it isn't going to open by
itself).
____________________

The real keys in having drawers that operate smoothly is having the case and
drawer slides parallel and the correct amount of space for the slides. That
slide space has a 1/16" tolerance so you might want to consider making the
drawer widths undersize by 1/8 - 1/4 and shimming the slides to fit. That
works really well if you have a way - like a drum sander - to easily make
shimming strips to a needed thickness.

And if you want maximum utility from the drawers, partition them.
Preferably with moveable partitions. An easy way to do that is to set a
3/16" dado blade at 45 degrees and cut opposing "V" grooves in each drawer
side. Strips of 1/4" ply with the ends sanded to a matching "V" will then
fit nicely and be moveable.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

"LdB" wrote in message
...
The foundation was poured by a contractor in the summer of 02. I've done
almost all the rest of the building myself with help from my son and
friends.

Below is a link to some photos of the place.

http://www.granite.mb.ca/~lorence/
Snip



I am considering ordering drawer slides from Lee Valley. They have several
choices with a significant price difference.

Having been a Lee Vally customer for many years I believe their products
are of good or better than average quality. I have no doubt that their
cheapest drawer slides will be adequate for the job I'm doing or they
wouldn't sell them.

You can normally trust products from Lee Valley however you can also trust
products from other manufacturers also. If you can find Blum, KV, or
Accuride you should be sattisfied. Ther are other fine brands however these
typically are in the affordable range and easily found.


What makes the top end slides worth the extra money?

Smother action, other features like self closing, soft closing, extra weight
capacity, positive tracking.


Are the Tandem plus slides

http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/pa...614,43616&ap=1

that much better than these?

http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/pa...614,43616&ap=1


Better? "Maybe" they are under mount IIRC so your drawer can be built
wider and they are probably self closing and soft close. None of these make
the slide better however they are very nice features.


Are the Blumotion dampers on Tandem slides worth the additional ten
dollars a pair.

Regardless of brand the soft close features are kind of a cool feature and
pretty much guarantee that you will never hear a drawer slam shut regaudless
of how much effort you use to close it.



I could drive into town and get slides at Home Depot for a lot less but I
doubt they will give me a lifetime guarantee.

I have not installed as many slides as some people however I have probably
installed a couple hundred over the past 20 years. I have never had a "full
extension" drawer slide fail regardless of features.




I really don't know what to expect with these products. I have limited
experience with them other than to say I have opened and closed drawers
with sliders. I have also opened and closed drawers without sliders.

Any advice would be appreciated.

For kitchen cabinets I would advise slides. Because they are easy to
install, I prefer "full extension" side mount slides. Because they hold the
drawer closed, self closing full extension side mount slides are nice.
Because they keep the drawer from slamming, self closing with soft close,
full extension side mount slides are even nicer.
If you don't want to see the slides, the under mount disappear and they
allow you to have a drawer that is approximately 1" wider than the side
mount style slide. Typically however with Full Extension side mount slides
you cam make the drawer deeper, front to back than normal because you can
open the whole drawer as opposed to 2/3's extension slides. With that in
consideration the loss of 1" in width for the side mount slide is recovered
and then some in the form of a deeper drawer.

One thing to certainly watch out for would be the ball bearings. I have
seen plastic or nylon ball bearing on the cheaper slides. Try to stay with
steel ball bearings.

LdB wrote:

Are the Tandem plus slides

http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/pa...614,43616&ap=1

that much better than these?

http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/pa...614,43616&ap=1

The self-closing full extension slides close fairly abruptly and
noisily. Probably not necessary for most purposes. For a more direct
comparison to the TandemPlus in side-mount slides, take a look at these:

http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/pa...614,43616&ap=1

I'm considering these in my own kitchen because I'm retrofitting
existing drawers and the undermount slides require additional height,
making the existing openings a bit short for the desired contents.

Are the Blumotion dampers on Tandem slides worth the additional ten
dollars a pair.

The damped slides are really sweet, especially if there are going to be
people (kids or careless adults) that like to just bump the drawer with
a hip to close it.

Chris

Chris Friesen wrote:
LdB wrote:

Are the Tandem plus slides

http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/pa...614,43616&ap=1


that much better than these?

http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/pa...614,43616&ap=1


The self-closing full extension slides close fairly abruptly and
noisily. Probably not necessary for most purposes. For a more direct
comparison to the TandemPlus in side-mount slides, take a look at these:

http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/pa...614,43616&ap=1



These were an addition on the last page of the catalog. I may not have
seen them without your message. They seem to have all the features of
the more expensive slides.

I'll have to decide on side or bottom mount slides. I bought a
dovetail jig for this project. I hadn't concidered using bottom
sliders to show off the woodwork. I suppose that when you do the work
you have the right to show it off.

A few responses picked up on my interest in a lifetime warranty.
I build things to last a lifetime and then some. Building to code is
the minimum I will accept. With a bit of maintenance this house will
be standing a few hundred years after I'm gone. I intend to build a
set of cupboards that will last as long as the house does. Some of you
may not agree with that philosophy but it has done well for me.

Thanks to all that responded. You helped getting me on track.

LdB

"LdB" wrote

I'll have to decide on side or bottom mount slides. I bought a dovetail
jig for this project. I hadn't concidered using bottom sliders to show off
the woodwork. I suppose that when you do the work you have the right to
show it off.

On the practical side, ... just be aware that under mount slide systems most
often require more precision in drawer building.

IOW, it is good practice to decide upon and buy your slides _before_ you
build your drawers, then pay _very_ particular attention to the required
drawer dimensions in the spec sheet.

A few responses picked up on my interest in a lifetime warranty.
I build things to last a lifetime and then some. Building to code is the
minimum I will accept.

Don't look now, 'building to code' _is_ building to 'minimum standards'.

With a bit of maintenance this house will
be standing a few hundred years after I'm gone. I intend to build a set of
cupboards that will last as long as the house does. Some of you may not
agree with that philosophy but it has done well for me.

You'll do alright then ... I expect all the kitchens I build to outlast the
houses they go in, even though I try to build the houses they go in with the
same attitude that I build the kitchens.

However, don't expect today's buyer to appreciate that philosophy ....

--
Karl ...
Cell 281-414-0127
Fax 713-664-1393

On Dec 16, 8:01*am, "Swingman" wrote:

IOW, it is good practice to decide upon and buy your slides _before_ you
build your drawers, then pay _very_ particular attention to the required
drawer dimensions in the spec sheet.

Oh my, oh my.

The voice of experience is being heard there, eh?

I am gun shy enough the last time I actually made a cabinet with a
couple of drawers in it I bought the slides and built a test drawer
and opening.

Once bitten, twice shy.

Robert

"LdB" wrote:

I am considering ordering drawer slides from Lee Valley.

If money is no object, sounds like a plan.

As an alternate, check out the Accuride web site.

(SFWIW, I use their 100 lb, plated steel slides)

Select your slides, then develop a bill of material allowing about
3%-5% for spares.

Find the distributor in your area.

You will probably need a "Company Name" for billing purposes.

Since you have a boat, how about "Keel Haul Marine" or maybe "Kreative
Kitchen Koncepts" or some other creative name.

Pay with cash or credit card, forget a personal check.

Haven't bought any for a while, but best guess is no more than about
$8-$9/pair.

SFWIW, I'd buy slides first.

Have fun.

Lew

wrote
On Dec 16, 8:01 am, "Swingman" wrote:

IOW, it is good practice to decide upon and buy your slides _before_ you
build your drawers, then pay _very_ particular attention to the required
drawer dimensions in the spec sheet.

Oh my, oh my.

The voice of experience is being heard there, eh?

I am gun shy enough the last time I actually made a cabinet with a
couple of drawers in it I bought the slides and built a test drawer
and opening.

Once bitten, twice shy.

Yep ... the shop dummy here once made a half dozen nice dovetail drawers and
I ended up having to cut them down in height by 5/8" just to get them to
work with the already purchased, expensive, under mount slides.

Helluva way to treat dovetails ...

Tried to fire the SOB, but every time I looked in the mirror, there he was
again.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" wrote

Yep ... the shop dummy here once made a half dozen nice dovetail drawers
and I ended up having to cut them down in height by 5/8" just to get them
to work with the already purchased, expensive, under mount slides.

Helluva way to treat dovetails ...

Tried to fire the SOB, but every time I looked in the mirror, there he was
again.

Aw come on Swingman, you can't fire family!

"Swingman" wrote in message news:l-
Helluva way to treat dovetails ...

Tried to fire the SOB, but every time I looked in the mirror, there he was
again.

Har! You make me laugh buddy. Instead of trying to fire the guy next time,
tell him to go have a drink on me.

On Dec 16, 6:32*pm, "Swingman" wrote:

Helluva way to treat dovetails ...

Ouch!

Tried to fire the SOB, but every time I looked in the mirror,
there he was
again.

I know the feeling. Every morning's shave I see that ugly sombitches
mug, no matter how hard I try to run him off. But he keeps telling me
that he MUST be just about at the end of making all the mistakes that
can be made.

Noting the volume of same, I am inclined to agree. He should be on
the other side of the curve any day now.

Robert

On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 19:54:44 -0600, LdB wrote:

Swingman wrote:


IOW, it is good practice to decide upon and buy your slides _before_ you
build your drawers, then pay _very_ particular attention to the required
drawer dimensions in the spec sheet.


My wood is from a local sawmill. It's still piled up in the garage.
I will start feeding it into the machinery by new year. I will be
ordering the sliders this week.


Don't look now, 'building to code' _is_ building to 'minimum standards'.

Sadly there are many that believe code is too much, too expensive and
unnecessary. They are the tarpaper shack crowd that inspectors love so
much.

I have one for a neighbor. Truly an amazing man. He actually undid
work ordered by the the inspector, after his place finally passed
inspection. He said it was a waste of lumber. World class redneck.


....and apparently doesn't value his personal time very highly,
either...codes are simply standards (UBC, Uniform Building Code, was
one, but it is a part of the Legacy codes that comprise the
International Code Council where the IBC, International Building Code,
was developed and now constitutes the code most approved by US state
governments. Whew...and that ain't all, there's another player in the
code wars NFPA, National Fire Protection Association, that at this
time is kinda the Beta vis a vis VHS...head hurting now...) that
allow structures to be built in a more-or-less uniform way and can get
very "local" depending on where your building. *Always* pays to check
because municipalities are trump in many ways...

cg


However, don't expect today's buyer to appreciate that philosophy ....


The container ships keep get larger and larger. These days quality is
only skin deep.

All the best of the season

LdB

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 00:16:05 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

"LdB" wrote:

I am considering ordering drawer slides from Lee Valley.

If money is no object, sounds like a plan.

As an alternate, check out the Accuride web site.

....I use Accuride...good stuff.

(SFWIW, I use their 100 lb, plated steel slides)

Lew, I promise I'll never ask again: What is SFWIW? ;O)

cg

Select your slides, then develop a bill of material allowing about
3%-5% for spares.

Find the distributor in your area.

You will probably need a "Company Name" for billing purposes.

Since you have a boat, how about "Keel Haul Marine" or maybe "Kreative
Kitchen Koncepts" or some other creative name.

Pay with cash or credit card, forget a personal check.

Haven't bought any for a while, but best guess is no more than about
$8-$9/pair.

SFWIW, I'd buy slides first.

Have fun.

Lew

"Charlie Groh" wrote:

Lew, I promise I'll never ask again: What is SFWIW? ;O)

Strictly For What It's Worth

Lew

Swingman;1473860 Wrote:
"LdB" wrote
-
I'll have to decide on side or bottom mount slides. I bought a
dovetail
jig for this project. I hadn't concidered using bottom sliders to show
off
the woodwork. I suppose that when you do the work you have the right
to
show it off.-

On the practical side, ... just be aware that under mount slide systems
most
often require more precision in drawer building.

IOW, it is good practice to decide upon and buy your slides _before_
you
build your drawers, then pay _very_ particular attention to the
required
drawer dimensions in the spec sheet.
-
A few responses picked up on my interest in a lifetime warranty.
I build things to last a lifetime and then some. Building to code is
the
minimum I will accept.-

Don't look now, 'building to code' _is_ building to 'minimum
standards'.

With a bit of maintenance this house will-
be standing a few hundred years after I'm gone. I intend to build a
set of
cupboards that will last as long as the house does. Some of you may
not
agree with that philosophy but it has done well for me.-

You'll do alright then ... I expect all the kitchens I build to outlast
the
houses they go in, even though I try to build the houses they go in
with the
same attitude that I build the kitchens.

However, don't expect today's buyer to appreciate that philosophy ....


--
Karl ...
Cell 281-414-0127
Fax 713-664-1393



this is good info thanks for this kind of topic,





___________________
Great thing to know about 'busby seo test'
(http://pinayspeak.com/pinaytest/).




--
jams002

"Swingman" wrote in message
...

Tried to fire the SOB, but every time I looked in the mirror, there he was
again.


Damn! Are those sole inserts still working that good that you are looking
in the mirror more often? LOL

On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 20:05:42 -0800, Charlie Groh
wrote:

...and apparently doesn't value his personal time very highly,
either...codes are simply standards (UBC, Uniform Building Code, was
one, but it is a part of the Legacy codes that comprise the
International Code Council where the IBC, International Building Code,
was developed and now constitutes the code most approved by US state
governments.

'International' - as in just the USA? The Wikipedia entry on the IBC
seems to think so.

Residents of the USA often call ISO or IEC standards 'European'
despite them being used in over 150 countries worldwide - including
the USA. Why? probably because they think 'it wasn't invented here'
except ANSI along with many other National Standards Organisations had
an input.

FFS why did they not call it the USA ***National*** Building Council
or sling the word Federal in there or something? Maybe it's yet
another case of 'World Series' syndrome.



--

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 16:28:20 +0000, Mike wrote:

On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 20:05:42 -0800, Charlie Groh
wrote:

...and apparently doesn't value his personal time very highly,
either...codes are simply standards (UBC, Uniform Building Code, was
one, but it is a part of the Legacy codes that comprise the
International Code Council where the IBC, International Building Code,
was developed and now constitutes the code most approved by US state
governments.

'International' - as in just the USA? The Wikipedia entry on the IBC
seems to think so.

Residents of the USA often call ISO or IEC standards 'European'
despite them being used in over 150 countries worldwide - including
the USA. Why? probably because they think 'it wasn't invented here'
except ANSI along with many other National Standards Organisations had
an input.

FFS why did they not call it the USA ***National*** Building Council
or sling the word Federal in there or something? Maybe it's yet
another case of 'World Series' syndrome.

....Heh!

cg