Hello,

I am going to spend some money on a new dust collector for my cellar shop.
I am looking at either the JDS or the Oneida. My longest run may be 30
feet. I am just a hobby guy so I would only be using one machine at a time.
Not sure of the size of the main run yet, maybe 6".

My question is about location:

I was thinking of having the collector outside in a shed and run the pipe
through a modified cellar window. Since the window is 6 ft from the floor
and the collector input will be 4 or so feet from that I am worried that I
am trying to suck the dust to high (far)? Is it worth it to put it out
there or should I just put it under the stairs. Has anyone ever had the
same sort of setup?

I live in North East Mass if that matters.

Thoughts or suggestions.

Thanks

Larry C

On Sun, 07 Sep 2008 22:37:10 GMT, "Larry C"
wrote:

Hello,

I am going to spend some money on a new dust collector for my cellar shop.
I am looking at either the JDS or the Oneida. My longest run may be 30
feet. I am just a hobby guy so I would only be using one machine at a time.
Not sure of the size of the main run yet, maybe 6".

My question is about location:

I was thinking of having the collector outside in a shed and run the pipe
through a modified cellar window. Since the window is 6 ft from the floor
and the collector input will be 4 or so feet from that I am worried that I
am trying to suck the dust to high (far)? Is it worth it to put it out
there or should I just put it under the stairs. Has anyone ever had the
same sort of setup?

I live in North East Mass if that matters.

Thoughts or suggestions.

Thanks

Larry C



A 30-foot run and a 5 foot lift says you will need at least a 2 HP DC.
Venting to the outside during the cold winter months will make your
shop cold and/or put a strain on the furnace. A central location for
the DC might make the best sense.

Phisherman wrote:
On Sun, 07 Sep 2008 22:37:10 GMT, "Larry C"
wrote:


Hello,

I am going to spend some money on a new dust collector for my cellar shop.
I am looking at either the JDS or the Oneida. My longest run may be 30
feet. I am just a hobby guy so I would only be using one machine at a time.
Not sure of the size of the main run yet, maybe 6".

My question is about location:

I was thinking of having the collector outside in a shed and run the pipe
through a modified cellar window. Since the window is 6 ft from the floor
and the collector input will be 4 or so feet from that I am worried that I
am trying to suck the dust to high (far)? Is it worth it to put it out
there or should I just put it under the stairs. Has anyone ever had the
same sort of setup?

I live in North East Mass if that matters.

Thoughts or suggestions.

Thanks

Larry C




A 30-foot run and a 5 foot lift says you will need at least a 2 HP DC.
Venting to the outside during the cold winter months will make your
shop cold and/or put a strain on the furnace. A central location for
the DC might make the best sense.

Also the air that is exhausted to the outside has to be replaced.
Placing the DC outside may cause a down draft in the chimmney flue while
the DC is running.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

Larry C wrote:
Hello,

I am going to spend some money on a new dust collector for my cellar
shop. I am looking at either the JDS or the Oneida. My longest run may
be 30 feet. I am just a hobby guy so I would only be using one machine
at a time. Not sure of the size of the main run yet, maybe 6".

My question is about location:

I was thinking of having the collector outside in a shed and run the
pipe through a modified cellar window. Since the window is 6 ft from
the floor and the collector input will be 4 or so feet from that I am
worried that I am trying to suck the dust to high (far)? Is it worth it
to put it out there or should I just put it under the stairs. Has
anyone ever had the same sort of setup?

I live in North East Mass if that matters.

Thoughts or suggestions.

Thanks

Larry C



While your situation is vastly different from mine when talking about
heating as I am in a very temperate location, I'd think about putting it
in the shop if possible, because a decent dust collector moves a lot of
air, and if you are exhausting it outside, you are also sending a
boatload of heat out with it. Needless to say, if you exhaust outside
in the winter, you will need to provide makeup air, and you will have to
heat that air or your shop will soon be at outside temperature. The
heating costs can easily exceed all other costs (including electricity
to run tools and the DC, wood, supplies and the like). Thus, you may
wish to put the DC in the shop with you, or provide some way for the
heated air to be ducted back into the shop from the outside shed.

Ignoring the heating problem the real issue is going to be the air flow
of the system, not the height you have to run the ducts.

For any reasonable system, you shouldn't have any real issue with the
"lift". On my last shop, the initial installation had 4" PVC pipe
ductwork at 10.5 feet from the floor, and used a simple 1.5hp dust
collector with a "trash can cyclone" style pre-filter. With the
pre-filter, almost nothing ever collected in the filter bags, so after
awhile I just left them off because it allowed for more air flow. I was
exhausting the air outside, and never had a visible dust on the ground
or outside wall of the shop as a result, so the cyclone was really doing
it's job. The longest run (to a wood lathe) was about 50 feet plus
another 10 for up from the lathe and 5 down to the Cyclone at the other
end, and it really didn't perform as I'd have liked, but lathes are
really difficult to deal with. Table saw and 12" planer were about 30
feet plus the up and down and did pretty well, but If I were pushing the
planer hard I could plug up the duct. At something under $300 including
the PVC ducting, it was a low budget approach to DC and did pretty well
for the cost. Swapped out the DC and trashcan cyclone for a "real one"
without significantly changing performance, though it was quieter and it
did look a lot nicer. All in all, it worked pretty good and I'm not
complaining, but sold the place before I had a chance to move to larger
main ducts. My biggest mistake was not really looking at the restriction
of the ducting I was using.

If you're looking at sucking up small shavings and sawdust, a Dust
Collector might work, but I'd personally not use anything that doesn't
have some sort of cyclone or pre-separator, so nothing but fine dust
ever gets to the impeller... (memories of wood shop and kids dropping
chunks of wood into the ductwork to hear them rattle all the way to the
impeller, and the whack they made when they hit it still make me cringe.
How it ever withstood repeated freshman wood shop classes I'll never
know.)

Since I had some time before I get the space in the new place back to
use as a full workshop, I did some additional homework. One web site
worth visiting is the following:

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm

He's got a lot of information and some really good points, and even has
plans on his site if you want to make your own from scratch. He took the
approach of determining the needed airflow based on duct size and feet
per minute air flow required to keep things moving, and eventually
figured out a cyclone with an inclined input is more efficient overall.
Most manufacturers don't seem to pay any attention to this, and though
I'm not totally convinced the other ones are that much worse than his
approach, I'm still looking at my total costs for delivery. As I'm in a
"delivery challenged" location, shipping costs can be a significant
problem, so I may be much more sensitive to the shipping costs than
where you are.

The new shop will have a main run with 35' of 6 inch ducting at the
truss level (10') feeding a 3HP cyclone (very possibly the clear-vue).
I would expect it to keep up with all of my needs, as my shop is
primarily also a single man operation. Only occasionally do I have any
help, though I'm thinking on offering some sort of internship to
somebody nearby if I could [con - - -] convince them that learning
sanding first is the real way to learn how to become a woodworker... [sigh]

Good Luck!
--Rick

"Larry C" wrote in message
news:qIYwk.766$sq3.307@trnddc07...
Hello,

I am going to spend some money on a new dust collector for my cellar shop.
I am looking at either the JDS or the Oneida. My longest run may be 30
feet. I am just a hobby guy so I would only be using one machine at a
time. Not sure of the size of the main run yet, maybe 6".

My question is about location:

I was thinking of having the collector outside in a shed and run the pipe
through a modified cellar window. Since the window is 6 ft from the floor
and the collector input will be 4 or so feet from that I am worried that I
am trying to suck the dust to high (far)? Is it worth it to put it out
there or should I just put it under the stairs. Has anyone ever had the
same sort of setup?

I live in North East Mass if that matters.

Thoughts or suggestions.

Thanks

Larry C


As some have said, a bunch of air and heat will leave your house, if DC is
outside. But, you could return that air thru large furnace filters. Double
stack or hi efficiently

as far as figuring uot the size you need, Oneida used to spec a system for
you (including a duct parts list) iof you sent them a shop drawing (size,
machine locations, etc).

I also live in the NE, and I put my DC outside the shop. Mostly because of
noise (I have a 3HP oneida, and it roars)... In order to keep heat loss
minimal, I have a return duct so the air comes back tot he shop after going
through the DC. A couple of furnace filters in the return pick up a bit more
of the dust (although not much gets through the super fine bags). If you go
for this option, make the return duct really bog 0as big as you can amange.
There is a lot of air moving through the DC, and the less back pressure you
have the better. If you generate any real amount of back pressure, the warm
air will escape out of the vents and leaks in the DC shed anyway... If you
are really adventurouse, you could power your return duct - old furnace fans
are cheap, especially if you know someone that reapairs/tunes furnaces.

Given teh option of doing it again, I'd keep the DC out of the shop.About
the only disadbantage is that you ahve to remember to chreck the barrels - a
busy day of planing can fill them up, and if they clog, the chips will back
up into the DC fan, which will chuck them into the filter (cleanout is a
major PITA)....

-J



"Larry C" wrote in message
news:qIYwk.766$sq3.307@trnddc07...
Hello,

I am going to spend some money on a new dust collector for my cellar shop.
I am looking at either the JDS or the Oneida. My longest run may be 30
feet. I am just a hobby guy so I would only be using one machine at a
time. Not sure of the size of the main run yet, maybe 6".

My question is about location:

I was thinking of having the collector outside in a shed and run the pipe
through a modified cellar window. Since the window is 6 ft from the floor
and the collector input will be 4 or so feet from that I am worried that I
am trying to suck the dust to high (far)? Is it worth it to put it out
there or should I just put it under the stairs. Has anyone ever had the
same sort of setup?

I live in North East Mass if that matters.

Thoughts or suggestions.

Thanks

Larry C

"Larry C" wrote in message
news:qIYwk.766$sq3.307@trnddc07...
Hello,

I am going to spend some money on a new dust collector for my cellar shop.
I am looking at either the JDS or the Oneida. My longest run may be 30
feet. I am just a hobby guy so I would only be using one machine at a
time. Not sure of the size of the main run yet, maybe 6".

My question is about location:

I was thinking of having the collector outside in a shed and run the pipe
through a modified cellar window. Since the window is 6 ft from the floor
and the collector input will be 4 or so feet from that I am worried that I
am trying to suck the dust to high (far)? Is it worth it to put it out
there or should I just put it under the stairs. Has anyone ever had the
same sort of setup?

I live in North East Mass if that matters.

Thoughts or suggestions.

Thanks


FYI I use a 1100 cfm Jet with canister filter. I only use a 20' run of
"4""clear flexible hose. Because like you I only use one tool at a time
the hose is totally portable and is not fixed to a particular tool. For
half my operations including catching waste from a 15" stationary planer the
hose exits the DC about 18" from the floor goes straight up to a ceiling
hook 12" from the ceiling then comes back down to the Planer about 6' away.
Similarly the hose exits the DC goes up to the ceiling hook and back down to
about 4" above the floor to my Laguna BS. Same situations for the Drum
Sander, DP, and Router table.

For longer runs to the other side of the shop the hose comes down from the
ceiling hook to go to an OS Sander, Disk Sander or my TS up to 16' away from
the DC.

With the hose going up to the ceiling I see no drop in performance and I
have never had to clear a clog. The DC seldom looses any debris from the
high volume planer or drum sander.

On Sun, 07 Sep 2008 22:37:10 GMT, "Larry C" wrote:

I went through a lot of research when I moved and was designing the new shop..
In my case, putting the unit outside would have caused the same problems that
others have, plus future building in my area will eventually include neighboring
houses.. I didn't want noise abuse to folks nearby..
(We also have the AC in the shop running every day for almost 6 months a year)

I have a Harbor Freight unit that does the job well for me... It sits in the
corner furthest from the rest of the house (my shop is a large room in the
house) with a 20' run of 4" hose between the DC and a shop-built separator, with
a Y on the separator making short runs to the band saw and lathe, each with a
blast gate..

I also added a DC muffler, which was a GREAT investment:
http://www.pennstateind.com/store/SUP1000.html



Hello,

I am going to spend some money on a new dust collector for my cellar shop.
I am looking at either the JDS or the Oneida. My longest run may be 30
feet. I am just a hobby guy so I would only be using one machine at a time.
Not sure of the size of the main run yet, maybe 6".

My question is about location:

I was thinking of having the collector outside in a shed and run the pipe
through a modified cellar window. Since the window is 6 ft from the floor
and the collector input will be 4 or so feet from that I am worried that I
am trying to suck the dust to high (far)? Is it worth it to put it out
there or should I just put it under the stairs. Has anyone ever had the
same sort of setup?

I live in North East Mass if that matters.

Thoughts or suggestions.

Thanks

Larry C



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"mac davis" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 07 Sep 2008 22:37:10 GMT, "Larry C" wrote:

I went through a lot of research when I moved and was designing the new
shop..
In my case, putting the unit outside would have caused the same problems
that
others have, plus future building in my area will eventually include
neighboring
houses.. I didn't want noise abuse to folks nearby..
(We also have the AC in the shop running every day for almost 6 months a
year)

I have a Harbor Freight unit that does the job well for me... It sits in
the
corner furthest from the rest of the house (my shop is a large room in the
house) with a 20' run of 4" hose between the DC and a shop-built
separator, with
a Y on the separator making short runs to the band saw and lathe, each
with a
blast gate..

I also added a DC muffler, which was a GREAT investment:
http://www.pennstateind.com/store/SUP1000.html


SNIP

mac

Seems like that muffler would be pretty simple to make. Now granted I don't
know what's in it, but seems like to me that you could get the same effect
from a can of something crappy like Yuban, drilling a hole in both ends of
the can and sliding a piece of exhaust venting through the hole. You could
pack the can with fiberglas or steel wool or heck even leave the dried out
Yuban in the can to act as packing.

I don't know, sure would be interesting to see what is in that muffler they
offer.

You need to check the heights on those
machines and make sure you can get it
in your basement. Many basements are
quite low.

The Oneida is http://www.oneida-air.com/v2000.php
is 87" tall.

The Dust Gorilla is 90"

http://www.oneida-air.com/gorilla_2.5high.php.

Stepping up to 3hp is 95"

http://www.oneida-air.com/gorilla_3hp.php

Larry C wrote:
Hello,

I am going to spend some money on a new dust collector for my cellar
shop. I am looking at either the JDS or the Oneida. My longest run may
be 30 feet. I am just a hobby guy so I would only be using one machine
at a time. Not sure of the size of the main run yet, maybe 6".

My question is about location:

On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 23:37:10 +0100, Larry C wrote
(in article qIYwk.766$sq3.307@trnddc07):

I live in North East Mass if that matters.

That's a relief. Remember that as you move further south, you need to add
more coils to your dustpipe, otherwise you'll be fighting the natural cyclone
action appropriate to latitude in the northern hemisphere, Once you cross the
equator, you have to reverse the direction of twist otherwise you'll be in
_real_ trouble.

On the equator itself you can get away with straight pipe. but try to keep it
running east-west.

Feel pity for those in northermost Alaska who must have their DC mounted
_directly_ below them, with minimal horizontal runs as they have far more
latitude than longitude up there, with the obvious effect you'll all be
familiar with - (which I suppose is better than all the south polar
woodworkers who have to have theirs built on towers to keep the line going
directly UP.)


I hope this helps.

























:-)

I did quite a bit of buying when I did my dust collector and plumbed
my entire garage for each tool. I did quite a bit of reading and the
one thing I never paid attention to was that a LOT of people just move
the hose from tool to tool as they work. My JET dust collector was
far under powered for what I was asking it to do, and have since moved
to just moving the hose from Jointer to TS to Planer. I like the
setup I have now and wish I had not spent the extra 200-300 bucks on
the stuff I recently sold at a garage sale for maybe 20 bucks. The
money was not as big a deal to me as the countless days trying to get
it to work.

Mark

BTW - I did the same thing with my compressor. I have a lot of black
iron to sell at the next garage sale....now I just use a long hose.

On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 08:11:01 -0700, "Eigenvector" wrote:

snip

I also added a DC muffler, which was a GREAT investment:
http://www.pennstateind.com/store/SUP1000.html


SNIP


Seems like that muffler would be pretty simple to make. Now granted I don't
know what's in it, but seems like to me that you could get the same effect
from a can of something crappy like Yuban, drilling a hole in both ends of
the can and sliding a piece of exhaust venting through the hole. You could
pack the can with fiberglas or steel wool or heck even leave the dried out
Yuban in the can to act as packing.

I don't know, sure would be interesting to see what is in that muffler they offer.

No idea, maybe fiberglass, like a glass pack? wow.. flash back!

Not being a welder or sheet metal guy, I'm happy with this one...
I'd spend more than $100 worth of time just getting the hose fittings the right
size and round.. lol

It was less than $100 with shipping, it works well and I didn't lose turning
time designing and building one..
(As if the first one of ANYTHING that I design & build works well)


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

mac davis wrote:
On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 08:11:01 -0700, "Eigenvector"
wrote:

snip

I also added a DC muffler, which was a GREAT investment:
http://www.pennstateind.com/store/SUP1000.html


SNIP


Seems like that muffler would be pretty simple to make. Now
granted
I don't
know what's in it, but seems like to me that you could get the same
effect
from a can of something crappy like Yuban, drilling a hole in both
ends of
the can and sliding a piece of exhaust venting through the hole.
You could
pack the can with fiberglas or steel wool or heck even leave the
dried out
Yuban in the can to act as packing.

I don't know, sure would be interesting to see what is in that
muffler they offer.

No idea, maybe fiberglass, like a glass pack? wow.. flash back!

Not being a welder or sheet metal guy, I'm happy with this one...
I'd spend more than $100 worth of time just getting the hose
fittings
the right
size and round.. lol

It was less than $100 with shipping, it works well and I didn't lose
turning
time designing and building one..
(As if the first one of ANYTHING that I design & build works well)

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/Muffler.cfm


--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

In article 49b223b3-b747-4aae-b9ae-772ff6ae4049
@v16g2000prc.googlegroups.com, says...
I did quite a bit of buying when I did my dust collector and plumbed
my entire garage for each tool. I did quite a bit of reading and the
one thing I never paid attention to was that a LOT of people just move
the hose from tool to tool as they work. My JET dust collector was
far under powered for what I was asking it to do, and have since moved
to just moving the hose from Jointer to TS to Planer. I like the
setup I have now and wish I had not spent the extra 200-300 bucks on
the stuff I recently sold at a garage sale for maybe 20 bucks. The
money was not as big a deal to me as the countless days trying to get
it to work.

Thanks. I was considering doing the same in my new shop. I was
thinking about putting the DC downstairs in the garage and running a
vertical down to it. I'll have to think about that some more.

BTW - I did the same thing with my compressor. I have a lot of black
iron to sell at the next garage sale....now I just use a long hose.

I did that in my last basement and garage. It worked quite well,
though I left 150' of copper and more than a dozen disconnects when
I moved. I understand the issue with the DC though.

--
Keith