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Default Radial Arm Saw Table - Help, please

I have seen RAS mounted on long tables and finally brought my old
Craftsman RAS up with the idea of building a long (10') table to mount
it on.

Please, I want to do this so spare me tha comments about altenatiives
like buying a sliding mitre saw, etc.

I began by building a frame out of 4 x 4 legs and 2 x 10's to form a
"table." unsing 1 x 3 "stretchers" near the bottom - to support a
planned "shelf" as well as tie the legs together.

So, I have this table frame 10' long and 26" deep and, now, need to
figure out how best to mount the saw to it.

I "discovered" the height adjusting crank last night and realized I
would have to extend it through the front (2x10) support member. So
this is an issue - how to best do that.

I also want teh table top to be all in one plane, but want the section
the blade will travel to be removable (when I cut too deep and scar it
- or plow slots into it!

Ideas, plans, pictures of someone else's table would be appreciated.
(Links to same?)

Thanks in advance.
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Default Radial Arm Saw Table - Help, please

On Thu, 29 May 2008 07:30:31 -0700 (PDT), Hoosierpopi
wrote:


I also want teh table top to be all in one plane, but want the section
the blade will travel to be removable (when I cut too deep and scar it
- or plow slots into it!

You can route an insert for a piece of hardboard, but I wouldn't do it..

You NEED to cut deeper than the piece that you're cutting, just as you adjust
the blade height on a table saw higher than your work..

You'll find that if you don't "pre-shape" the cutting area by rotating the
blade, (not safe in MHO), you'll develop a 90 degree cut in the table and
possibly a 45 degree cut, though most folks leave the head at 90 degrees and
unless ripping, and use a jig to keep the work at a 45 degree angle..

If you keep your saw tuned, you'll find yourself using the saw kerf(s) in the
table as guides to where the blade passes.. YMWV

BTW.. On my RAS, the elevation handle slides over the rod and locks with a pin
in the rod and slots in the handle..
I extended it with a piece of water pipe with matching holes and slots and it
worked fine for years.. (I recently gave the saw to a friend)


mac

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Default Radial Arm Saw Table - Help, please

Hoosierpopi wrote:
....
So, I have this table frame 10' long and 26" deep and, now, need to
figure out how best to mount the saw to it.

....

I simply cut an opening in the table the size of the saw's sacrifical
table--in reality, I actually just butted the table tops to it on the
sides and left it proud at the front by about 6" or so.

To mount the saw I used angle iron (1-1/2 x 1 x 3/16) and drilled (the
1" side) for mounting using the provided holes in the saw for its stand.
Mounted the angles so that had room for a nut on either side of the
bolts to use for leveling the saw to the table.

--
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Default Radial Arm Saw Table - Help, please

On May 29, 9:30 am, Hoosierpopi wrote:

Please, I want to do this so spare me tha comments about altenatiives
like buying a sliding mitre saw, etc.


I probably wouldn't have responded but for that remark. Hilarious. I
have noticed that when a lot of questions are asked around here
sometimes, the answers have absolutely nothing to do with a solution.

I began by building a frame out of 4 x 4 legs and 2 x 10's to form a
"table." unsing 1 x 3 "stretchers" near the bottom - to support a
planned "shelf" as well as tie the legs together.


That is good so far. I have owned a couple of the old Sears RAS, as
they were the rage years ago. Before the offered bases for them, we
always built a strong square box on which to mount the saw and base.
We found the best solution was to make two smaller tables to fit on
either side of the saw's table, making it easier to align and level.

So, I have this table frame 10' long and 26" deep and, now, need to
figure out how best to mount the saw to it.


I am thinking that your saw base already has some holes in it so that
you can lag or bolt the base to a wood frame.

I "discovered" the height adjusting crank last night and realized I
would have to extend it through the front (2x10) support member. So
this is an issue - how to best do that.


See mac's post above.

I also want teh table top to be all in one plane, but want the

section
the blade will travel to be removable (when I cut too deep and scar it
- or plow slots into it!


The tops on these saws are easily removed. You can replace it
easily. Also, a lot of folks never knew that most of these had room
in the hold down bolts to shim the top level. This was something we
did often as the tops were a low quality MDF on our saws.

With the adjustable screws on the back of the top, you can also bring
the backstop on the saw into square with a framing square and some
patience.

Ours always looked a lot like this, where you can see the original
equipment (note the bolt down holes in the top) mated to two tables:

http://tinyurl.com/6m3hd7

Easy to imagine this one with a couple of tables
flanking it:

http://tinyurl.com/5nvuml

I still have my radial saw, but never really use it as it goes out of
adjustment so often. But when I was building bookshelves, etc., it
was nice to have a machine ready to go that would make an 11" cut with
no fussing after a quick alignment. I could cut out the sides,
shelves, and molding in no time for built ins. For me, it was also
impossible to beat for shelf dados on those cases. I liked putting
the blade on the mark and buzzing out the dado with no fixtures or
fuss.

I keep it thinking one day I might do it again, so that's why it is
around now.

Robert
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Default Radial Arm Saw Table - Help, please

On May 29, 2:21*pm, "
wrote:
On May 29, 9:30 am, Hoosierpopi wrote:

Please, I want to do this so spare me tha comments about altenatiives
like buying a sliding mitre saw, etc.


I probably wouldn't have responded but for that remark. *Hilarious. *I
have noticed that when a lot of questions are asked around here
sometimes, the answers have absolutely nothing to do with a solution.

I began by building a frame out of 4 x 4 legs and 2 x 10's to form a
"table." unsing 1 x 3 "stretchers" *near the bottom - to support a
planned "shelf" as well as tie the legs together.


That is good so far. *I have owned a couple of the old Sears RAS, as
they were the rage years ago. *Before the offered bases for them, we
always built a strong square box on which to mount the saw and base.
We found the best solution was to make two smaller tables to fit on
either side of the saw's table, making it easier to align and level.

So, I have this table frame 10' long and 26" deep and, now, need to
figure out how best to mount the saw to it.


I am thinking that your saw base already has some holes in it so that
you can lag or bolt the base to a wood frame.

I "discovered" the height adjusting crank last night and realized I
would have to extend it through the front (2x10) support member. So
this is an issue - how to best do that.


See mac's post above.

* I also want teh table top to be all in one plane, but want the
section

the blade will travel to be removable (when I cut too deep and scar it
- or plow slots into it!


The tops on these saws are easily removed. *You can replace it
easily. *Also, a lot of folks never knew that most of these had room
in the hold down bolts to shim the top level. *This was something we
did often as the tops were a low quality MDF on our saws.

With the adjustable screws on the back of the top, you can also bring
the backstop on the saw into square with a framing square and some
patience.

Ours always looked a lot like this, where you can see the original
equipment (note the bolt down holes in the top) mated to two tables:

*http://tinyurl.com/6m3hd7

Easy to imagine this one with a couple of tables
flanking it:

*http://tinyurl.com/5nvuml

I still have my radial saw, but never really use it as it goes out of
adjustment so often. *But when I was building bookshelves, etc., it
was nice to have a machine ready to go that would make an 11" cut with
no fussing after a quick alignment. *I could cut out the sides,
shelves, and molding in no time for built ins. *For me, it was also
impossible to beat for shelf dados on those cases. *I liked putting
the blade on the mark and buzzing out the dado with no fixtures or
fuss.

I keep it thinking one day I might do it again, so that's why it is
around now.

Robert


Thank you for the "on-point" responses. Eveyone was serious this time
out!

I'll have to take some pictures of what I'm working on / with so far
but I gleaned several ideas for these responses.

Particularly interesting was the combination of the mitre saw into the
same table as the RAS. I have a 12" Combination Mitre saw that I could
fit into this project to kill another bird with the effort.

Thank you (all).


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Default Radial Arm Saw Table - Help, please


"Hoosierpopi" wrote

Particularly interesting was the combination of the mitre saw into the
same table as the RAS. I have a 12" Combination Mitre saw that I could
fit into this project to kill another bird with the effort.

I don't know if you can get pictures/illustrations of Norm's setup on the
Old Yankee Workshop. His table goes a considerable distance down the side
of his workshop/barn. He includes both his radial arm saw and the miter saw
in the extended tables. They are in two different locations. But both use
the same table. He has some extensive storage underneath the tables as
well.



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Default Radial Arm Saw Table - Help, please

Lee Michaels wrote:
"Hoosierpopi" wrote

Particularly interesting was the combination of the mitre saw into
the
same table as the RAS. I have a 12" Combination Mitre saw that I
could
fit into this project to kill another bird with the effort.

I don't know if you can get pictures/illustrations of Norm's setup
on
the Old Yankee Workshop. His table goes a considerable distance
down
the side of his workshop/barn. He includes both his radial arm saw
and the miter saw in the extended tables. They are in two different
locations. But both use the same table. He has some extensive
storage underneath the tables as well.


FWIW, he rebuilt that table a while back and did a show on the
building. You can order the video and measured drawing for 40 bucks.
http://www.newyankee.com/getproduct.php?0201

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to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)


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Default Radial Arm Saw Table - Help, please


"J. Clarke" wrote

Lee Michaels wrote:

I don't know if you can get pictures/illustrations of Norm's setup
on
the Old Yankee Workshop. His table goes a considerable distance
down
the side of his workshop/barn. He includes both his radial arm saw
and the miter saw in the extended tables. They are in two different
locations. But both use the same table. He has some extensive
storage underneath the tables as well.


FWIW, he rebuilt that table a while back and did a show on the
building. You can order the video and measured drawing for 40 bucks.
http://www.newyankee.com/getproduct.php?0201


I don't know what I was thinking. Nahm has been around so long that I must
be thinking of him as an ancient history woodworking guy. Hence the OLD
yankee workshop reference.

I wonder what that makes me??

Reminds me of that old George Burns line. When asked how it was to be so
old, he replied that he would rather be 18.



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Default Radial Arm Saw Table - Help, please

I just finished doing the same thing. Here are pictures of the
construction of the bench, mounting the metal frame and crafting a new
adjustment knob. Haven't done the final tuning yet and I don't know
how effective the dust collection will be.

http://www.mike-land.com/Woodworking...workbench.html

Mike Brown.

On May 29, 7:30 am, Hoosierpopi wrote:
I have seen RAS mounted on long tables and finally brought my old
Craftsman RAS up with the idea of building a long (10') table to mount
it on.

Please, I want to do this so spare me tha comments about altenatiives
like buying a sliding mitre saw, etc.

I began by building a frame out of 4 x 4 legs and 2 x 10's to form a
"table." unsing 1 x 3 "stretchers" near the bottom - to support a
planned "shelf" as well as tie the legs together.

So, I have this table frame 10' long and 26" deep and, now, need to
figure out how best to mount the saw to it.

I "discovered" the height adjusting crank last night and realized I
would have to extend it through the front (2x10) support member. So
this is an issue - how to best do that.

I also want teh table top to be all in one plane, but want the section
the blade will travel to be removable (when I cut too deep and scar it
- or plow slots into it!

Ideas, plans, pictures of someone else's table would be appreciated.
(Links to same?)

Thanks in advance.


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Default Radial Arm Saw Table - Help, please

On May 30, 6:24 pm, wrote:
I just finished doing the same thing. Here are pictures of the
construction of the bench, mounting the metal frame and crafting a new
adjustment knob. Haven't done the final tuning yet and I don't know
how effective the dust collection will be.

http://www.mike-land.com/Woodworking...kbench/workben...


Mike - I like your website. Nicely done!

Robert


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Default Radial Arm Saw Table - Help, please

On May 30, 7:24*pm, wrote:
I just finished doing the same thing. *Here are pictures of the
construction of the bench, mounting the metal frame and crafting a new
adjustment knob. *Haven't done the final tuning yet and I don't know
how effective the dust collection will be.

''
That looks good. Nice pictures and descriptions. One thing I may help
with-YOU WROTE

Now that the bench is in place, I can go back and complete the
installation of the Radial Arm Saw. It's a 1960's vintage Craftsman
model, that I bought in Austin for $50 at a garage sale. I switched
the motor to 220V, and installed new round black wire. The height
adjustment shaft just sticks through the front of the bench, but the
stock handle doesn't have enough clearance to turn, so I had to come
up with the different plan. I bought a 2" diameter pulley, a small V
belt and a octagonal-shaped PVC end cap. I cut a section of V-belt
just the right size to fit around the pulley, then epoxied it into
place. I then epoxied the end cap and pounded it down onto the pulley
- the V-belt acts as a gasket of just the right size to make
everything fit tightly. The new adjustment knob then fits onto the
end of the shaft."

I had similar concerns and investigated the shaft. On My (Vintage
Craftsman) it is 1/2" in diameter plain steel rod. It can easily be
removed from the saw. My intention is to cut it underneath the saw
base and add a longer section to it using a steel 5/8" O.D. 1/2" I.D.
bit of steel "tubing" from Lowes' hardware drawers - about 1.25" long
and either sweat it with the brazing torch (or solder it) or drill two
small holes through the (Lowes) sleeve and rod (one in each section)
and use cotter pins to hold it together. I found an old store display
hook thing that employed a fitting designed to hold the 1/2" chrome
hook in the end of the rack's square tubing and will use that fittin
(about 7/8" x 7/8" x 2.5" as a collar/bearing for the adjusting rod as
it comes through the bench frame.

I am torn, now that I see all the benches built on cabinet/drawer
bases! I was using old salvaged (from construction sites) lumber to
build the frame (2 x 10 x 10' and four 4x4's) and, now have to decide
to dismantle and rebuild or try and slip cabinets under!

Thank you again!

I am still working on the base leveling system - I liked that approach
- and have gathered some all-thread and he appropriate nuts.
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Default Radial Arm Saw Table - Help, please

On May 30, 2:21*pm, "J. Clarke" wrote:
Lee Michaels wrote:
"Hoosierpopi" wrote


Particularly interesting was the combination of the mitre saw into
the
same table as the RAS. I have a 12" Combination Mitre saw that I
could
fit into this project to kill another bird with the effort.


I don't know if you can get pictures/illustrations of Norm's setup
on
the Old Yankee Workshop. *His table goes a considerable distance
down
the side of his workshop/barn. *He includes both his radial arm saw
and the miter saw in the extended tables. They are in two different
locations. But both use the same table. *He has some extensive
storage underneath the tables as well.


FWIW, he rebuilt that table a while back and did a show on the
building. *You can order the video and measured drawing for 40 bucks.
http://www.newyankee.com/getproduct.php?0201

--
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to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Wow, nice bench Norm's got there. Sorry I missed that show! Sorrier,
too that he wants $40 bucks for the plans! After all Public TV did for
him!

Budget demands preclude contributing further to Norm's net worth!

I've been shopping at Habitat for Humanity Re-stores to get cabinets.
My shop will never look as neat as Norm's (or you fellas') but it
should approach the level of functionality.

Who was the fella with the INSTEON Switch? That was intriguing. I use
X-10 stuff to control lighting, but have yet to use the feedback
features or computer interface thing effectively. Would like to know
more!
Thanks for all the +feedback. Feel free to add more - I'm a sponge.
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On Fri, 30 May 2008 16:24:45 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

I just finished doing the same thing. Here are pictures of the
construction of the bench, mounting the metal frame and crafting a new
adjustment knob. Haven't done the final tuning yet and I don't know
how effective the dust collection will be.

http://www.mike-land.com/Woodworking...workbench.html

Mike Brown.


I agree with Robert, nicely done.

Your shop screams for representation at ShopTours.org
(http://www.shoptours.org). Want me to add it?

email me: LRod at pobox dot com



--
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Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net
http://www.normstools.com

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.
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Default Radial Arm Saw Table - Help, please

Hey thanks Robert!

Mike Brown

On May 30, 10:59 pm, "
wrote:
On May 30, 6:24 pm, wrote:

I just finished doing the same thing. Here are pictures of the
construction of the bench, mounting the metal frame and crafting a new
adjustment knob. Haven't done the final tuning yet and I don't know
how effective the dust collection will be.


http://www.mike-land.com/Woodworking...kbench/workben...


Mike - I like your website. Nicely done!

Robert


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Default Radial Arm Saw Table - Help, please

I got lucky with the length of my shaft. Wow, that sounds really
wrong! :^)

I think your plan will work. Just make sure the joint is strong, as
it takes a bit of strength to raise and lower, but you shouldn't have
to do it very often.

Mike Brown

On May 31, 7:40 am, Hoosierpopi wrote:
On May 30, 7:24 pm, wrote: I just finished doing the same thing. Here are pictures of the
construction of the bench, mounting the metal frame and crafting a new
adjustment knob. Haven't done the final tuning yet and I don't know
how effective the dust collection will be.


''
That looks good. Nice pictures and descriptions. One thing I may help
with-YOU WROTE

Now that the bench is in place, I can go back and complete the
installation of the Radial Arm Saw. It's a 1960's vintage Craftsman
model, that I bought in Austin for $50 at a garage sale. I switched
the motor to 220V, and installed new round black wire. The height
adjustment shaft just sticks through the front of the bench, but the
stock handle doesn't have enough clearance to turn, so I had to come
up with the different plan. I bought a 2" diameter pulley, a small V
belt and a octagonal-shaped PVC end cap. I cut a section of V-belt
just the right size to fit around the pulley, then epoxied it into
place. I then epoxied the end cap and pounded it down onto the pulley
- the V-belt acts as a gasket of just the right size to make
everything fit tightly. The new adjustment knob then fits onto the
end of the shaft."

I had similar concerns and investigated the shaft. On My (Vintage
Craftsman) it is 1/2" in diameter plain steel rod. It can easily be
removed from the saw. My intention is to cut it underneath the saw
base and add a longer section to it using a steel 5/8" O.D. 1/2" I.D.
bit of steel "tubing" from Lowes' hardware drawers - about 1.25" long
and either sweat it with the brazing torch (or solder it) or drill two
small holes through the (Lowes) sleeve and rod (one in each section)
and use cotter pins to hold it together. I found an old store display
hook thing that employed a fitting designed to hold the 1/2" chrome
hook in the end of the rack's square tubing and will use that fittin
(about 7/8" x 7/8" x 2.5" as a collar/bearing for the adjusting rod as
it comes through the bench frame.

I am torn, now that I see all the benches built on cabinet/drawer
bases! I was using old salvaged (from construction sites) lumber to
build the frame (2 x 10 x 10' and four 4x4's) and, now have to decide
to dismantle and rebuild or try and slip cabinets under!

Thank you again!

I am still working on the base leveling system - I liked that approach
- and have gathered some all-thread and he appropriate nuts.




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Default Radial Arm Saw Table - Help, please

Wow, nice bench Norm's got there. Sorry I missed that show! Sorrier,
too that he wants $40 bucks for the plans! After all Public TV did for
him!

Budget demands preclude contributing further to Norm's net worth!

I assume you are just being facecious here and that you do realize that the
40 bucks goes to PBS and not into Norm's tool pouch (and that the New Yankee
Workshop belongs to the producer, not Norm himself).

Lee


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_________________________________
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http://www.leegordonproductions.com


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Default Radial Arm Saw Table - Help, please

Lee Gordon wrote:
Wow, nice bench Norm's got there. Sorry I missed that show!
Sorrier,
too that he wants $40 bucks for the plans! After all Public TV did
for
him!

Budget demands preclude contributing further to Norm's net worth!

I assume you are just being facecious here and that you do realize
that the 40 bucks goes to PBS and not into Norm's tool pouch (and
that the New Yankee Workshop belongs to the producer, not Norm
himself).


Further, it's 16 for the plans, the 40 gets you the show (two
episodes) as well.

One hopes that Nahm gets residuals.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)


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All good points Larry and I have put some thought into them.

I was planning on adding a fence which will be tightened down with
wingnuts or something, through oblong holes, allowing for a certain
amount of freedom of alignment.

I was planning on making the saw arm parallel to the table top using
thin metal shim plates. The only reason to have it *dead* parallel is
when doing dados - I see Norm do that a lot but I wonder how much I
will.

Replacing the top is most problematic. I'll likely cut the "retired"
section out and lightly glue another into place. The hardboard sits
on a 3/4" ply sub-base. I've seen some more complex ideas (Shopnotes
#16) but I could go years without feeling the need to replace it.

Mike Brown

On Jun 2, 7:59 pm, Larry Kraus wrote:
wrote:
I just finished doing the same thing. Here are pictures of the
construction of the bench, mounting the metal frame and crafting a new
adjustment knob. Haven't done the final tuning yet and I don't know
how effective the dust collection will be.


http://www.mike-land.com/Woodworking...kbench/workben...


I looking at building a similar wall of cabinets incorporating my RAS,
possibly with flip up tables for my bench top planer and scroll saw.
Since I may want to rearrange the shop at some point I will probably
build individual cabinets with leveling adjusters. Like yours, some of
my inspiration came from Norm's workstation.

I hate to mention this now, since I can see you have a lot of work
invested in your bench, but I can see problems with it for RAS use.

Where is the fence? To use a RAS safely you have to have a solidly
mounted fence, which can be easily shifted and replaced, and which
will maintain alignment with respect to the saw arm.

Mounting the saw base directly to the table top means that you have no
way to align the top parallel to the saw arm.

The top surface of a RAS table should be considered sacrificial, as
the blade has to cut into it in order to cut through the work piece.
Replacing yours looks kind of involved, and putting another piece on
top means you lose the benefit of a long uninterrupted top.

It has been a while since I watched my tape of norm's project, but I
think he left the RAS on its own base, and aligned the workstation
with the saw...
Hmm... didn't he extend the fence onto the workstation? How did that
work?
Guess I'll have to find that tape...


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Default Radial Arm Saw Table - Help, please

Mac, are you saying two layers of hardboard over the plywood
foundation? I could do that with some reword but at this point I
think I'm content with what I have. The hardboard top layer is
sacrificial but is in the same plane as the rest of the long
workbench, so I'll just cut out the used-up section. I've made a note
of your idea of double stick tape and/or screws.

Mike Brown

On Jun 2, 10:55 pm, mac davis wrote:
On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 21:36:08 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
Replacing the top is most problematic. I'll likely cut the "retired"
section out and lightly glue another into place. The hardboard sits
on a 3/4" ply sub-base. I've seen some more complex ideas (Shopnotes
#16) but I could go years without feeling the need to replace it.


How firm are your plans for how and where to attach the saw?

Can you mount it 1/4" higher?

I allow a bit over 1/4" on all my benches, work stands, etc.. then use a "cap"
of 1/4" hardboard for the actual work surface..
Most are held down with double-sided tape, but the RAS top was 3/8" ply with
leveling screws..

mac

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Default Radial Arm Saw Table - Help, please

Great idea LRod, I've made a note about your toggle clamp idea.

My local tool store - Outlet Tool Supply in Atascadero, CA - is having
its yearly blowout sale on Saturday and now I know I'll be walking out
with some goodies. Well, that and a bandsaw resaw blade, and ....

Mike Brown

On Jun 3, 8:43 am, LRod wrote:
On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 21:36:08 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
All good points Larry and I have put some thought into them.


I was planning on adding a fence which will be tightened down with
wingnuts or something, through oblong holes, allowing for a certain
amount of freedom of alignment.


One of the ideas I've had for a redesign of my old Sears RAS (while
not quite as old as yours, it's a similar construction), is to replace
the wing bolt/key (which clamps the fence parts to the main table from
behind--those with Sears RASes will know what I mean) with horizontal
toggle clamps. I even picked up a pair at Woodcraft a while back. I
still think it'll be a nice adaptation (and convenient). You might
want to give that a thought.

--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.nethttp://www.normstools.com

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