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#1
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Fastening to metal studs
Hi all,
I'm builing a cherry mantle for some friends, the floating type, made to be fastened directly to the wall above the fireplace. There are no sides, so no support from the floor. It weighs about 25 lbs or so. I had planned to use French cleats to hang it from the wall, but they just found out from the builder that the house is built with metal studs, and not wood as we had expected. Can you hang that much weight from metal studs, and if so, what sort of fastening system would be best? There are basically 4 studs along the length of the mantle. Thanks, Bob |
#2
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Fastening to metal studs
On May 9, 8:38 am, "giga" wrote:
I'm builing a cherry mantle for some friends, the floating type, made to be fastened directly to the wall above the fireplace. There are no sides, so no support from the floor. It weighs about 25 lbs or so. I had planned to use French cleats to hang it from the wall, but they just found out from the builder that the house is built with metal studs, and not wood as we had expected. Can you hang that much weight from metal studs, and if so, what sort of fastening system would be best? There are basically 4 studs along the length of the mantle. That shouldn't be a problem - then again, it depends on how much crap the owners put on the mantle. The weight of their stuff could easily exceed the weight of the mantel if there's a reasonable size shelf top. You should use expanding metal anchors into the studs such as a Molly anchor or toggle bolt, and you might want to consider making the french cleat on the wall taller so you could get a couple of fasteners in each stud. You could also use some construction adhesive, but that's belt and suspenders and probably not necessary. R |
#3
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Fastening to metal studs
giga wrote:
Hi all, I'm builing a cherry mantle for some friends, the floating type, made to be fastened directly to the wall above the fireplace. There are no sides, so no support from the floor. It weighs about 25 lbs or so. I had planned to use French cleats to hang it from the wall, but they just found out from the builder that the house is built with metal studs, and not wood as we had expected. Can you hang that much weight from metal studs, Sure. You could hang it from just the drywall too. ___________ and if so, what sort of fastening system would be best? You could use any sort of expanding fastener or just screws meant for fastening drywall to metal studs...there is very little "out" force, mostly it is "down". -- dadiOH ____________________________ dadiOH's dandies v3.06... ....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico |
#4
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Fastening to metal studs
"giga" wrote in message Hi all, I'm builing a cherry mantle for some friends, the floating type, made to be fastened directly to the wall above the fireplace. There are no sides, so no support from the floor. It weighs about 25 lbs or so. I had planned to use French cleats to hang it from the wall, but they just found out from the builder that the house is built with metal studs, and not wood as we had expected. Can you hang that much weight from metal studs, and if so, what sort of fastening system would be best? There are basically 4 studs along the length of the mantle. BEWA Mantles end up being the resting place of expensive "objects d'art" (if not for this resident, perhaps for the next) and because of this fact you may well be doing yourself a favor to "over engineer" ... you do NOT want any unpleasant call backs from "friends". What material is the wall? This information is important to an effective solution. Self tapping screws can be used into the metal studs, but, depending upon the wall material, I would also routinely throw in a few molly bolts in between the studs for the wall half of the French cleat. As others have mentioned, and depending again upon the wall material, a bit of construction adhesive would also add to the "belt and suspenders" approach, which is certainly justified in this particular situation due to first above. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 3/27/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#5
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Fastening to metal studs
"Swingman" wrote in message ... "giga" wrote in message Hi all, I'm builing a cherry mantle for some friends, the floating type, made to be fastened directly to the wall above the fireplace. There are no sides, so no support from the floor. It weighs about 25 lbs or so. I had planned to use French cleats to hang it from the wall, but they just found out from the builder that the house is built with metal studs, and not wood as we had expected. Can you hang that much weight from metal studs, and if so, what sort of fastening system would be best? There are basically 4 studs along the length of the mantle. BEWA Mantles end up being the resting place of expensive "objects d'art" (if not for this resident, perhaps for the next) and because of this fact you may well be doing yourself a favor to "over engineer" ... you do NOT want any unpleasant call backs from "friends". What material is the wall? This information is important to an effective solution. Self tapping screws can be used into the metal studs, but, depending upon the wall material, I would also routinely throw in a few molly bolts in between the studs for the wall half of the French cleat. As others have mentioned, and depending again upon the wall material, a bit of construction adhesive would also add to the "belt and suspenders" approach, which is certainly justified in this particular situation due to first above. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 3/27/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) what would the adhesive do attaching the cleat to drywall? the paper isn't very strong, and that's all you're gluing to. |
#6
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Fastening to metal studs
"Swingman" wrote: BEWA Mantles end up being the resting place of expensive "objects d'art" (if not for this resident, perhaps for the next) and because of this fact you may well be doing yourself a favor to "over engineer" ... you do NOT want any unpleasant call backs from "friends". What material is the wall? This information is important to an effective solution. Self tapping screws can be used into the metal studs, but, depending upon the wall material, I would also routinely throw in a few molly bolts in between the studs for the wall half of the French cleat. If I were doing this job, shear load is not going to be a problem; however, cantilever loading could be. As someone suggested, the wider the French Cleat, the better. 6"-8" would be a good starting point, 12" if there is room. I would attach this cleat using #14, coarse thread, self tapping, S/S, flat head, sheet metal screws (At least 2-3 per stud) along with construction adhesive. Just you're basic belt and suspenders design approach. Allow the adhesive to cure 10-14 days before using. Lew |
#7
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Fastening to metal studs
charlie took a can of maroon spray paint on May 9, 2008 10:15 am and wrote
the following: "Swingman" wrote in message ... "giga" wrote in message Hi all, I'm builing a cherry mantle for some friends, the floating type, made to be fastened directly to the wall above the fireplace. There are no sides, so no support from the floor. It weighs about 25 lbs or so. I had planned to use French cleats to hang it from the wall, but they just found out from the builder that the house is built with metal studs, and not wood as we had expected. Can you hang that much weight from metal studs, and if so, what sort of fastening system would be best? There are basically 4 studs along the length of the mantle. BEWA Mantles end up being the resting place of expensive "objects d'art" (if not for this resident, perhaps for the next) and because of this fact you may well be doing yourself a favor to "over engineer" ... you do NOT want any unpleasant call backs from "friends". What material is the wall? This information is important to an effective solution. Self tapping screws can be used into the metal studs, but, depending upon the wall material, I would also routinely throw in a few molly bolts in between the studs for the wall half of the French cleat. As others have mentioned, and depending again upon the wall material, a bit of construction adhesive would also add to the "belt and suspenders" approach, which is certainly justified in this particular situation due to first above. what would the adhesive do attaching the cleat to drywall? the paper isn't very strong, and that's all you're gluing to. That is what I was wondering, if the mantle is thick enough, I would consider removing some of the drywall, and adding 2by4 cross braces between the metal studs. Bit of ply or drywall to bring it back to level and then adding the cleat. -- Lits Slut #9 Life would be so much easier if we could just look at the source code. |
#8
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Fastening to metal studs
"charlie" wrote what would the adhesive do attaching the cleat to drywall? the paper isn't very strong, and that's all you're gluing to. How do you know the OP is attaching to drywall? Nonetheless, much of the "fastening" of chair rails, wainscotting paneling, to drywall is done with at least some construction adhesive. Later down the road, when trying remove same, you gain a quick understanding as why it is not a bad idea to include in it in a "belt and suspenders" approach. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 3/27/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#9
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Fastening to metal studs
"charlie" wrote: what would the adhesive do attaching the cleat to drywall? the paper isn't very strong, and that's all you're gluing to. The adhesive increases the surface area of the cleat in contact with the drywall. The increased surface area reduces the load/square inch on the joint. Lew |
#10
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Fastening to metal studs
"Lew Hodgett" wrote If I were doing this job, shear load is not going to be a problem; however, cantilever loading could be. Precisely ... and the width of the mantle from front to back is an important component of this particular force, and, like the wall material, is unknown at present. Nothing like trying to offer solutions when most of the important factors are unknown. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 3/27/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#11
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Fastening to metal studs
On May 9, 10:21*am, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
"Swingman" wrote: BEWA Mantles end up being the resting place of expensive "objects d'art" (if not for this resident, perhaps for the next) and because of this fact you may well be doing yourself a favor to "over engineer" ... you do NOT want any unpleasant call backs from "friends". What material is the wall? This information is important to an effective solution. Self tapping screws can be used into the metal studs, but, depending upon the wall material, I would also routinely throw in a few molly bolts in between the studs for the wall half of the French cleat. If I were doing this job, shear load is not going to be a problem; however, cantilever loading could be. As someone suggested, the wider the French Cleat, the better. 6"-8" would be a good starting point, 12" if there is room. I would attach this cleat using #14, coarse thread, self tapping, S/S, flat head, sheet metal screws (At least 2-3 per stud) along with construction adhesive. Just you're basic belt and suspenders design approach. Allow the adhesive to cure 10-14 days before using. Lew It also depends on the gauge of the metal stud. I hang entire rows of wall cabinets on metal studs with toggles if they're thin gauge studs and self tapping screws if we're dealing with thick metal... even then we pre-drill with a 1/16 bit. The load on cabinets is more shear, and Lew is right about the load being very different if the shelf protrudes from the wall and creates a cantilevered load. One brass statue and Swing's caution should be heeded. ( Or one arm of my ex with a beer in her hand leaning on it...MUCH more serious than a brass Rodin.) Toggles. When in doubt, I always use properly installed toggles. The plastic expanding ones will cut themselves on the inner edge of a metal stud hole, so use metal ones. This building doesn't have a bd-ft of wood, to screw into, in it: http://www.marinervillage.ca/photos.htm We have installed many kitchens in here and toggles are my friend. |
#12
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Fastening to metal studs
On May 9, 10:40*am, Robatoy wrote:
On May 9, 10:21*am, "Lew Hodgett" wrote: "Swingman" wrote: BEWA Mantles end up being the resting place of expensive "objects d'art" (if not for this resident, perhaps for the next) and because of this fact you may well be doing yourself a favor to "over engineer" ... you do NOT want any unpleasant call backs from "friends". What material is the wall? This information is important to an effective solution. Self tapping screws can be used into the metal studs, but, depending upon the wall material, I would also routinely throw in a few molly bolts in between the studs for the wall half of the French cleat. If I were doing this job, shear load is not going to be a problem; however, cantilever loading could be. As someone suggested, the wider the French Cleat, the better. 6"-8" would be a good starting point, 12" if there is room. I would attach this cleat using #14, coarse thread, self tapping, S/S, flat head, sheet metal screws (At least 2-3 per stud) along with construction adhesive. Just you're basic belt and suspenders design approach. Allow the adhesive to cure 10-14 days before using. Lew It also depends on the gauge of the metal stud. I hang entire rows of wall cabinets on metal studs with toggles if they're thin gauge studs and self tapping screws if we're dealing with thick metal... even then we pre-drill with a 1/16 bit. The load on cabinets is more shear, and Lew is right about the load being very different if the shelf protrudes from the wall and creates a cantilevered load. One brass statue and Swing's caution should be heeded. ( Or one arm of my ex with a beer in her hand leaning on it...MUCH more serious than a brass Rodin.) Toggles. When in doubt, I always use properly installed toggles. The plastic expanding ones will cut themselves on the inner edge of a metal stud hole, so use metal ones. This building doesn't have a bd-ft of wood, to screw into, in it:http://www.marinervillage.ca/photos.htm We have installed many kitchens in here and toggles are my friend. (suite 114 is one of our jobs) |
#13
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Fastening to metal studs
"charlie" wrote in message ... what would the adhesive do attaching the cleat to drywall? the paper isn't very strong, and that's all you're gluing to. Have you ever tried to suck the paper off the wall before? ;~) The strength would be in the huge adhesion area and while not sufficient by itself would add considerable stability to other fasteners. I have seen large pictures hung on those removable 3M adhesive hook strips and those do not cover much area by comparison. |
#14
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Fastening to metal studs
"Robatoy" wrote Toggles. When in doubt, I always use properly installed toggles. The plastic expanding ones will cut themselves on the inner edge of a metal stud hole, so use metal ones. Interchangeable terminology for a "molly bolt" down here in Tejas ... -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 3/27/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#15
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Fastening to metal studs
"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message news:R5ZUj.5$%X1.1@trnddc08... "Swingman" wrote: BEWA Mantles end up being the resting place of expensive "objects d'art" (if not for this resident, perhaps for the next) and because of this fact you may well be doing yourself a favor to "over engineer" ... you do NOT want any unpleasant call backs from "friends". What material is the wall? This information is important to an effective solution. Self tapping screws can be used into the metal studs, but, depending upon the wall material, I would also routinely throw in a few molly bolts in between the studs for the wall half of the French cleat. If I were doing this job, shear load is not going to be a problem; however, cantilever loading could be. As someone suggested, the wider the French Cleat, the better. 6"-8" would be a good starting point, 12" if there is room. I would attach this cleat using #14, coarse thread, self tapping, S/S, flat head, sheet metal screws (At least 2-3 per stud) along with construction adhesive. Just you're basic belt and suspenders design approach. Allow the adhesive to cure 10-14 days before using. Lew I should have elaborated a bit... The wall is garden variety drywall. The mantle itself is 8" deep and about 4" thick. It's done with a torsion box, so it's not solid cherry, but it sure ain't balsa wood. It's the cantilever force I'm concerned about. That's a lot of weight hanging as far as 8" out from the wall, with only 4" of surface area against it. I'm not sure that adhesive would be much of an aid in this case. The cleat itself is Lee Valley's aluminium Z-clips (http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/pa...41308&p=41869), two sections of 2' each. It's not very wide, but I reckon I could drill pairs of holes instead of singles in each location, but maybe not #14. Bob |
#16
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Fastening to metal studs
On May 9, 10:53*am, "Swingman" wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote Toggles. When in doubt, I always use properly installed toggles. The plastic expanding ones will cut themselves on the inner edge of a metal stud hole, so use metal ones. Interchangeable terminology for a "molly bolt" down here in Tejas ... The ones I use have two spring-loaded wings that deploy after insertion. So whatsitgonna be? A pop and sub or a soda and a hoagy? G |
#17
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Fastening to metal studs
On May 9, 11:00*am, "giga" wrote:
"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message news:R5ZUj.5$%X1.1@trnddc08... "Swingman" wrote: BEWA Mantles end up being the resting place of expensive "objects d'art" (if not for this resident, perhaps for the next) and because of this fact you may well be doing yourself a favor to "over engineer" ... you do NOT want any unpleasant call backs from "friends". What material is the wall? This information is important to an effective solution. Self tapping screws can be used into the metal studs, but, depending upon the wall material, I would also routinely throw in a few molly bolts in between the studs for the wall half of the French cleat. If I were doing this job, shear load is not going to be a problem; however, cantilever loading could be. As someone suggested, the wider the French Cleat, the better. 6"-8" would be a good starting point, 12" if there is room. I would attach this cleat using #14, coarse thread, self tapping, S/S, flat head, sheet metal screws (At least 2-3 per stud) along with construction adhesive. Just you're basic belt and suspenders design approach. Allow the adhesive to cure 10-14 days before using. Lew I should have elaborated a bit... The wall is garden variety drywall. The mantle itself is 8" deep and about 4" thick. It's done with a torsion box, so it's not solid cherry, but it sure ain't balsa wood. It's the cantilever force I'm concerned about. That's a lot of weight hanging as far as 8" out from the wall, with only 4" of surface area against it. I'm not sure that adhesive would be much of an aid in this case. The cleat itself is Lee Valley's aluminium Z-clips (http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/pa...,41308&p=4...), two sections of 2' each. It's not very wide, but I reckon I could drill pairs of holes instead of singles in each location, but maybe not #14. Bob I suppose it is a bit late for this idea, but I would have approached it a little differently. I would have built a torsion box with a tapered (45-degree) removable front and screwed the back part of the box directly (and flush) into the studs, with a long screwdriver, and then re-inserted the front 'panel'.... even before applying the finish....maybe. Those cleats are going to keep your box away from the wall, aren't they? Or are you letting them in? (I'm not trying to belabour a point here, but I do run into these situations, so I'm keeping an eye on this thread.) |
#18
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Fastening to metal studs
dadiOH wrote:
: giga wrote: : no support from the floor. It weighs about 25 lbs or so. : Sure. You could hang it from just the drywall too. The weight of the mantle is not what you worry about. You need to estimate the load of a 300 lb 6'6" guy leaning on it with his fore-arms. Or maybe two such guys. Or, worst case, someone standing on it to put the star on the top of the Christmas tree. If it looks big and solid and it's attached to the wall, people will assume that it can take load like a step-stool. True story: A guy was making some pull-down stairs for a hay-loft, and asked my father to check the design. My father recommended beefing up a cross bar, and the guy asked why, since it didn't have any load on it. My father explained that sooner or later some guy was going to use it as a chin-up bar. The day after it was installed, the guy was showing it to his neighbor, a big football player type. As soon as he saw the bar he jumped up and chinned himself on it. --- Chip |
#19
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Fastening to metal studs
"Robatoy" wrote So whatsitgonna be? A pop and sub or a soda and a hoagy? G An R'erC and a moonpie, thanks! -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 3/27/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#20
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Fastening to metal studs
"Robatoy" wrote Toggles. When in doubt, I always use properly installed toggles. The plastic expanding ones will cut themselves on the inner edge of a metal stud hole, so use metal ones. "Swingman" wrote: Interchangeable terminology for a "molly bolt" down here in Tejas ... Guys, give me a large enough cleat and a notched trowel to apply the adhesive, and the ONLY purpose of the fasteners is to hold the cleat snug while the adhesive cures. After the adhesive cures, remove the fasteners and plug the holes if you like. There purpose has been served. BTW, SFWIW, major difference between Toggle and Molly bolts in my part of the country. Lew |
#21
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Fastening to metal studs
"Lew Hodgett" wrote BTW, SFWIW, major difference between Toggle and Molly bolts in my part of the country. That I may well have to stand corrected is a distinct possibility, due to my coonass upbringing where the translation doesn't always coincide with the Anglais. The ones I'm talking about are the ones with the "wings on springs" that pop out after being poked through a pre-drilled hole. They are by far the strongest "wall anchors". Reflecting on it, they are more "toggle" like in their description, so Boudreau probably don't know what da hell he talking about, him. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 3/27/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#22
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Fastening to metal studs
"Swingman", the Registered CoonAss, wrote: The ones I'm talking about are the ones with the "wings on springs" that pop out after being poked through a pre-drilled hole. They are by far the strongest "wall anchors". Those are "toggle bolts". I try to avoid them at all costs. They require a large clearance hole to install, and are a single use item. "Molly Bolts" have a stamped steel cage around the self contained screw that expands and grabs the back side of the drywall when snugged up. Lighter duty than toggle bolts but very useful for hanging full length draw drapes for example, and they are reusuable. Lew |
#23
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Fastening to metal studs
"giga" wrote: I should have elaborated a bit... The wall is garden variety drywall. The mantle itself is 8" deep and about 4" thick. It's done with a torsion box, so it's not solid cherry, but it sure ain't balsa wood. It's the cantilever force I'm concerned about. That's a lot of weight hanging as far as 8" out from the wall, with only 4" of surface area against it. I'm not sure that adhesive would be much of an aid in this case. The cleat itself is Lee Valley's aluminium Z-clips two sections of 2' each. It's not very wide, but I reckon I could drill pairs of holes instead of singles in each location, but maybe not #14. I'd forget the Lee Valley stuff and build an exposed cleat at least 8" high with a reverse 45 on top which then gets glued to the dry wall. Using a large cleat will spread the load. Probably require some time back on the drawing board, but worth it. Lew |
#24
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Fastening to metal studs
Chip Buchholtz wrote:
dadiOH wrote: giga wrote: no support from the floor. It weighs about 25 lbs or so. Sure. You could hang it from just the drywall too. The weight of the mantle is not what you worry about. You need to estimate the load of a 300 lb 6'6" guy leaning on it with his fore-arms. Or maybe two such guys. Or, worst case, someone standing on it to put the star on the top of the Christmas tree. If it looks big and solid and it's attached to the wall, people will assume that it can take load like a step-stool. True story: A guy was making some pull-down stairs for a hay-loft, and asked my father to check the design. My father recommended beefing up a cross bar, and the guy asked why, since it didn't have any load on it. My father explained that sooner or later some guy was going to use it as a chin-up bar. The day after it was installed, the guy was showing it to his neighbor, a big football player type. As soon as he saw the bar he jumped up and chinned himself on it. When you hang doors, always assume such a use. -- -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
#25
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Fastening to metal studs
On May 9, 11:20*am, "Swingman" wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote So whatsitgonna be? A pop and sub or a soda and a hoagy? G An R'erC and a moonpie, thanks! Moonpie.... errrmmm.... maybe I shouldn't elaborate. ( but it had to do with da girlfriend, walking on the beach at night.. then she'd check the laces on her sneakers....alas I said too much already.......) Molly Bolts, eh? Yes, Those flare out like a star and are some tough. One use only. The toggles, you can take out the screw and have the wing part fall down and re-insert the a new toggle. Lew is right about them being a sloppy hole, but used in conjunction with a french cleat, they are very solid. Long cleats have the problem of walls being not-flat. r |
#26
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Fastening to metal studs
"Robatoy" wrote in message ... On May 9, 10:53 am, "Swingman" wrote: "Robatoy" wrote Toggles. When in doubt, I always use properly installed toggles. The plastic expanding ones will cut themselves on the inner edge of a metal stud hole, so use metal ones. Interchangeable terminology for a "molly bolt" down here in Tejas ... The ones I use have two spring-loaded wings that deploy after insertion. So whatsitgonna be? A pop and sub or a soda and a hoagy? G Down here it usta be Sody Water. |
#27
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Fastening to metal studs
On May 9, 12:02 pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
"giga" wrote: I should have elaborated a bit... The wall is garden variety drywall. The mantle itself is 8" deep and about 4" thick. It's done with a torsion box, so it's not solid cherry, but it sure ain't balsa wood. It's the cantilever force I'm concerned about. That's a lot of weight hanging as far as 8" out from the wall, with only 4" of surface area against it. I'm not sure that adhesive would be much of an aid in this case. The cleat itself is Lee Valley's aluminium Z-clips two sections of 2' each. It's not very wide, but I reckon I could drill pairs of holes instead of singles in each location, but maybe not #14. I'd forget the Lee Valley stuff and build an exposed cleat at least 8" high with a reverse 45 on top which then gets glued to the dry wall. Using a large cleat will spread the load. Probably require some time back on the drawing board, but worth it. Lew I would have loved to have done that, and was going to to begin with, but they decided they really didn't want the mantle to be thicker than 4", and swore up and down they would never put anything heavy on it. They were also sure the studs were wood, until I insisted they verify with the builder. Oh well, maybe I'll suggest they hang it from the cathedral ceiling with very long wires.... Bob |
#28
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Fastening to metal studs
On May 9, 7:15*am, "charlie"
wrote: what would the adhesive do attaching the cleat to drywall? the paper isn't very strong, and that's all you're gluing to. One important advantage is that a fixed item doesn't pry up its fasteners one at a time as it flexes. I've used construction adhesive and masking paper to make a tight conformation of a cleat to a wall: tape up the masking paper to protect the wall, put down a bead of glue on the cleat, affix the cleat over the paper, then trim any paper away when it's dry. It's easier than coping an oak board to a plaster wall... With all the gaps filled, the board and wall move together. Wood around screw threads can crumble with shock: glue can be strong enough (a mantle cleat can have square feet of glue area) to hold normal loads, then when a shock comes along the screws get only a momentary load. The screws could work loose under sustained load, we all see this in doors with poorly mortised hinges. OK, it is a small effect, but wood DOES give way under sustained stress that a strong metal screw is likely to apply. It's advantageous, where possible, to use large contact areas where wood is stressed; a lap joint with dowels holds more shear than the same joint with screws, because the dowel surface area in contact with the wood is much larger than the screw cross-section. |
#29
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Fastening to metal studs
wrote in message I would have loved to have done that, and was going to to begin with, but they decided they really didn't want the mantle to be thicker than 4", and swore up and down they would never put anything heavy on it. They were also sure the studs were wood, until I insisted they verify with the builder. Oh well, maybe I'll suggest they hang it from the cathedral ceiling with very long wires.... If you use the French cleat(s) with as many screws into the studs as you can get with self tapping screws, and also fastened to the sheetrock with "toggle bolts" in between the metal studs, AND, if possible, some construction adhesive to bond the back of the mantel to the drywall, you should be in pretty good shape. Even without the construction adhesive, and providing all your screws prove to have a solid hold, my estimation from your description thus far is that you'll be just fine. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 3/27/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#30
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Fastening to metal studs
wrote: I would have loved to have done that, and was going to to begin with, but they decided they really didn't want the mantle to be thicker than 4", and swore up and down they would never put anything heavy on it. They were also sure the studs were wood, until I insisted they verify with the builder. Oh well, maybe I'll suggest they hang it from the cathedral ceiling with very long wires.... Will the client buy into the idea of the cleat being an architectural item that serves as background for the mantle since it would be larger than the mantle? Lew |
#31
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Fastening to metal studs
On May 9, 4:08 pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
wrote: I would have loved to have done that, and was going to to begin with, but they decided they really didn't want the mantle to be thicker than 4", and swore up and down they would never put anything heavy on it. They were also sure the studs were wood, until I insisted they verify with the builder. Oh well, maybe I'll suggest they hang it from the cathedral ceiling with very long wires.... Will the client buy into the idea of the cleat being an architectural item that serves as background for the mantle since it would be larger than the mantle? Lew Well, that's exactly what I was thinking, and I think they would. A nice, matching cleat visible behind and below the mantle itself could actually look OK and be a pretty good solution. The back of the thing is recessed 1/4" to accommodate the Z-clips, as is the back edge of the bottom, but I could fairly easily build up the back edges of the top and sides by another 1/2" to shroud the cleat, maybe in walnut or some other accent wood. This can definitely be saved...I think... Bob |
#32
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Fastening to metal studs
wrote:
This can definitely be saved...I think... Have fun G Lew |
#33
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Fastening to metal studs
On May 9, 5:00*pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
wrote: This can definitely be saved...I think... Have fun G Lew I built a kitchen table, per request of a dear client of mine, which protruded 8 feet from the wall of her kitchen, no support, and 28" wide. It became a torsion box, Baltic birch and WEST epoxy. The anchor inside the wall was a simple doubling up of baltic birch. *I* figured, that if that stuff was good enough for Mosquito bomber, it was okay for my application. When *I* sat on the end of that table with my ample weight, the downward deflection was somewhere between 3/8 and 1/2 inches. It was only 3" thick. I luuuuuv torsion boxes. |
#34
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Fastening to metal studs
"Robatoy" wrote: I luuuuuv torsion boxes. Moment of Inertia (I) = (B)(H^3)/12 + 1/2(A)(D^2) Moment of Inertia is your friend and easy to increase with a torison box. Lew |
#35
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Fastening to metal studs
On May 9, 8:43*pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote: I luuuuuv torsion boxes. Moment of Inertia (I) *= (B)(H^3)/12 + 1/2(A)(D^2) Moment of Inertia is your friend and easy to increase with a torison box. Lew I used 1/2" BB all around, but I could have used 1/8" for the skins. |
#36
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Fastening to metal studs
"Robatoy" wrote:
I used 1/2" BB all around, but I could have used 1/8" for the skins. There is a reason they're called "door skins". If you can read a newspaper thru them, they are probably thick enoughG. Lew |
#37
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Fastening to metal studs
"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message news:La2Vj.314$T1.281@trnddc01... wrote: I would have loved to have done that, and was going to to begin with, but they decided they really didn't want the mantle to be thicker than 4", and swore up and down they would never put anything heavy on it. They were also sure the studs were wood, until I insisted they verify with the builder. Oh well, maybe I'll suggest they hang it from the cathedral ceiling with very long wires.... Will the client buy into the idea of the cleat being an architectural item that serves as background for the mantle since it would be larger than the mantle? Lew Well, as an update for them what's interested, I'm going to attach a wide cleat to the wall, glued, screwed, toggled, etc and hang the mantle on that. The twist is that the visible edges of the cleat will be bevelled, and the cleat will be painted same colour as the wall. That way, rather than looking like a piece of wood fastened to the wall, it will look more like wall feature. It will aslo be much easier to hide the bolt and screw heads, as they will be countersunk, filled, and painted. Bob |
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