A couple months ago the motor on my bandsaw went up in smoke. It
seemed pretty simple to just trot down to the local farm supply and
pick up a new motor. I couldn't get the exact base plate, but it will
work.

Got it home and set out to remove the old motor pulley to put on the
new motor. As soon as I put any pressure on the puller it just
snapped. The old pulley was made out of some sort of pot metal with
essentially zero strength. So it's back to the farm supply for a
pulley, all they have are these strange stamped sheet metal things,
but what the hey. When I tried to install it there was no way I could
get it on the shaft, the fit was just too tight. I managed to work it
partway before it jammed and then the puller reduced this new pulley
to a rather interesting free-form metal sculpture when I tried to
remove it.

Now I have in hand a proper cast iron pulley. The shaft and bore both
are supposed to be 5/8", but I still can't get the pulley to go on. So
what do I do next? I'm thinking that I could heat the pulley with my
heat gun then slip it quickly in place, but I'm not sure that will
really work. Otherwise I could buff a few thou. off the shaft - it
seems to be a bit rough, so that might be a good idea anyway.

What do you all think? I'm already torqued at having to replace the
motor on a saw that I'm going to upgrade out of in a few months, but
the saw was free and I need it sometime between *now* and *real soon*,
and I'm not going to have the long green for the new saw until at
least into the new year... soooo........

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

Definition of a teenager: God's punishment for enjoying sex.

"Tim Douglass" wrote in message
really work. Otherwise I could buff a few thou. off the shaft - it
seems to be a bit rough, so that might be a good idea anyway.

If you're going to resize anything, I'd be resizing the bore of the hole in
the pulley, certainly not buffing down the motor shaft. There's potential
for damaging one or the other. Which one do you really want to risk?

In article , Tim Douglass wrote:

Now I have in hand a proper cast iron pulley. The shaft and bore both
are supposed to be 5/8", but I still can't get the pulley to go on. So
what do I do next? I'm thinking that I could heat the pulley with my
heat gun then slip it quickly in place, but I'm not sure that will
really work. Otherwise I could buff a few thou. off the shaft - it
seems to be a bit rough, so that might be a good idea anyway.

Agree with Upscale that if you're going to mod anything, it should be the
pulley arbor and not the motor shaft.

Do you have access to a good dial caliper, to measure the OD of the shaft and
the ID of the arbor? You may have a 16mm motor shaft (0.6299") instead of
5/8".

If they're close (within a couple thousandths) you can pop the pulley on by
heating it -- but probably not with a heat gun. Think torch, and heavy leather
gloves.

If they're not close... what you do next depends on what you measured with the
caliper. If the motor shaft is really supposed to be 5/8 (0.625) and it's
actually 16mm, either you take it back to the point of purchase, or you get a
16mm pulley. If the pulley is undersize, you could ream or bore it out.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
t...
In article , Tim Douglass
wrote:

Now I have in hand a proper cast iron pulley. The shaft and bore both
are supposed to be 5/8", but I still can't get the pulley to go on. So
what do I do next? I'm thinking that I could heat the pulley with my
heat gun then slip it quickly in place, but I'm not sure that will
really work. Otherwise I could buff a few thou. off the shaft - it
seems to be a bit rough, so that might be a good idea anyway.

Agree with Upscale that if you're going to mod anything, it should be the
pulley arbor and not the motor shaft.

Do you have access to a good dial caliper, to measure the OD of the shaft
and
the ID of the arbor? You may have a 16mm motor shaft (0.6299") instead of
5/8".

If they're close (within a couple thousandths) you can pop the pulley on
by
heating it -- but probably not with a heat gun. Think torch, and heavy
leather
gloves.

If they're not close... what you do next depends on what you measured with
the
caliper. If the motor shaft is really supposed to be 5/8 (0.625) and it's
actually 16mm, either you take it back to the point of purchase, or you
get a
16mm pulley. If the pulley is undersize, you could ream or bore it out.


And if you don't have a set of calipers, you can always haul the motor down
to the bearing supply house and plunk it up on the counter. I have seen
this done before. In one case, there was an odd diameter shaft. The
bearing guys fixed him right up too.

Just a comment about bearing supply houses. They have saved my ass again and
again. And I have only been to them about 20 times in my life. I have
friends who have been to those places literally hundreds of times. Of
course, they work on engines, tools and old machinery much more than I do.

Sooooo......, bearing supply houses are GOOOOOOD!!

Damn, I feel philosophical today. :-)

"Lee Michaels" wrote in message

Damn, I feel philosophical today. :-)

Am I recalling correctly, or did you not post some picture on abpw on a
project you did with some pretty good size timber and a helluva lot of
joints?

If so, did you ever post the finished results? I might have missed it.

Inquiring minds ... and all that.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/8/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" wrote in message

"Lee Michaels" wrote in message

Damn, I feel philosophical today. :-)

Am I recalling correctly, or did you not post some picture on abpw on a
project you did with some pretty good size timber and a helluva lot of
joints?

If so, did you ever post the finished results? I might have missed it.


No, that wasn't me. I don't have a digital camera.

In fact, I am getting together batteries, film, etc. to do some pictures
that need to be posted locally. Hopefully I will no longer be a JPEG net
virgin by next week.

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 23:04:00 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , Tim Douglass wrote:

Now I have in hand a proper cast iron pulley. The shaft and bore both
are supposed to be 5/8", but I still can't get the pulley to go on. So
what do I do next? I'm thinking that I could heat the pulley with my
heat gun then slip it quickly in place, but I'm not sure that will
really work. Otherwise I could buff a few thou. off the shaft - it
seems to be a bit rough, so that might be a good idea anyway.

Agree with Upscale that if you're going to mod anything, it should be the
pulley arbor and not the motor shaft.

Do you have access to a good dial caliper, to measure the OD of the shaft and
the ID of the arbor? You may have a 16mm motor shaft (0.6299") instead of
5/8".

I went after them with my better dial calipers (the ones I use for
reloading rather then the shop ones) I got .625 for the pulley and
..627 for the shaft. That is probably within tolerance for the
low-budget-no-name Chinese motor maker. The shaft is pretty rough -
like it wasn't final ground after the lathe or something.

If they're close (within a couple thousandths) you can pop the pulley on by
heating it -- but probably not with a heat gun. Think torch, and heavy leather
gloves.

That's what I wondered, just how hot I would need to get things.

If they're not close... what you do next depends on what you measured with the
caliper. If the motor shaft is really supposed to be 5/8 (0.625) and it's
actually 16mm, either you take it back to the point of purchase, or you get a
16mm pulley. If the pulley is undersize, you could ream or bore it out.

I don't have the equipment to bore out the pulley that precisely, but
wouldn't be hard to take the shaft down those couple thou. with some
silicon carbide paper and a metal backing block against the spinning
shaft. I'll think about it a bit and see what other suggestions crop
up on here.

Thanks all.

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

Warning: Spelling errors in this message are the product of a poor school system. Pay teachures more than athletes.

Tim Douglass wrote:
....

I went after them with my better dial calipers (the ones I use for
reloading rather then the shop ones) I got .625 for the pulley and
.627 for the shaft. That is probably within tolerance for the
low-budget-no-name Chinese motor maker. The shaft is pretty rough -
like it wasn't final ground after the lathe or something.

If they're close (within a couple thousandths) you can pop the pulley on by
heating it -- but probably not with a heat gun. Think torch, and heavy leather
gloves.

That's what I wondered, just how hot I would need to get things.
....

I don't have the equipment to bore out the pulley that precisely, but
wouldn't be hard to take the shaft down those couple thou. with some
silicon carbide paper and a metal backing block against the spinning
shaft. I'll think about it a bit and see what other suggestions crop
up on here.
....

Way _too_ hot to make it the way to proceed...I'd do the latter --
although I'd probably just go for the carbide cloth-backed "tape" emery
cloth as the easier way. As you say, a couple thou is pretty easy that
way unless the shaft is really, really hard (which you'll find out quite
quickly)...

--

Tim Douglass wrote:
I went after them with my better dial calipers (the ones I use for
reloading rather then the shop ones) I got .625 for the pulley and
.627 for the shaft. That is probably within tolerance for the
low-budget-no-name Chinese motor maker. The shaft is pretty rough -
like it wasn't final ground after the lathe or something.


Heat the pully with a propane torch and quickly measure it. Is it up to,
like, 0.630?

If so, you know what to do.

"Tim Douglass" wrote

I went after them with my better dial calipers (the ones I use for
reloading rather then the shop ones) I got .625 for the pulley and
.627 for the shaft. That is probably within tolerance for the
low-budget-no-name Chinese motor maker. The shaft is pretty rough -
like it wasn't final ground after the lathe or something.


Clean up the shaft with a little emery paper, then take motor an
sheave to
the nearest machine shop and have them use an adjustable reamer to
clean
up the sheave bore.

It will take longer to do the set up than the task.

Lew

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 18:11:21 -0700, Tim Douglass
wrote:

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 23:04:00 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , Tim Douglass wrote:

Now I have in hand a proper cast iron pulley. The shaft and bore both
are supposed to be 5/8", but I still can't get the pulley to go on. So
what do I do next? I'm thinking that I could heat the pulley with my
heat gun then slip it quickly in place, but I'm not sure that will
really work. Otherwise I could buff a few thou. off the shaft - it
seems to be a bit rough, so that might be a good idea anyway.

Agree with Upscale that if you're going to mod anything, it should be the
pulley arbor and not the motor shaft.

Do you have access to a good dial caliper, to measure the OD of the shaft and
the ID of the arbor? You may have a 16mm motor shaft (0.6299") instead of
5/8".

I went after them with my better dial calipers (the ones I use for
reloading rather then the shop ones) I got .625 for the pulley and
.627 for the shaft. That is probably within tolerance for the
low-budget-no-name Chinese motor maker. The shaft is pretty rough -
like it wasn't final ground after the lathe or something.

First, run up the motor and touch the shaft with a strip of emery for
a few seconds while it is running. That will knock off the burrs,
nibs, and even out the natural machining lobes to make it more "round"
.. It won't hurt it, but it won't remove much material if it is at the
correct hardness. Then make sure the pulley is chamfered on the end
of the bore, if not do so. if it still won't go on, gentle heat to
the pulley.

Frank

If they're close (within a couple thousandths) you can pop the pulley on by
heating it -- but probably not with a heat gun. Think torch, and heavy leather
gloves.

That's what I wondered, just how hot I would need to get things.

If they're not close... what you do next depends on what you measured with the
caliper. If the motor shaft is really supposed to be 5/8 (0.625) and it's
actually 16mm, either you take it back to the point of purchase, or you get a
16mm pulley. If the pulley is undersize, you could ream or bore it out.

I don't have the equipment to bore out the pulley that precisely, but
wouldn't be hard to take the shaft down those couple thou. with some
silicon carbide paper and a metal backing block against the spinning
shaft. I'll think about it a bit and see what other suggestions crop
up on here.

Thanks all.

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

Warning: Spelling errors in this message are the product of a poor school system. Pay teachures more than athletes.

On Sep 4, 6:17 pm, Tim Douglass wrote:
A couple months ago the motor on my bandsaw went up in smoke. It
seemed pretty simple to just trot down to the local farm supply and
pick up a new motor. I couldn't get the exact base plate, but it will
work.

Got it home and set out to remove the old motor pulley to put on the
new motor. As soon as I put any pressure on the puller it just
snapped. The old pulley was made out of some sort of pot metal with
essentially zero strength. So it's back to the farm supply for a
pulley, all they have are these strange stamped sheet metal things,
but what the hey. When I tried to install it there was no way I could
get it on the shaft, the fit was just too tight. I managed to work it
partway before it jammed and then the puller reduced this new pulley
to a rather interesting free-form metal sculpture when I tried to
remove it.

Now I have in hand a proper cast iron pulley. The shaft and bore both
are supposed to be 5/8", but I still can't get the pulley to go on. So
what do I do next? I'm thinking that I could heat the pulley with my
heat gun then slip it quickly in place, but I'm not sure that will
really work. Otherwise I could buff a few thou. off the shaft - it
seems to be a bit rough, so that might be a good idea anyway.

What do you all think? I'm already torqued at having to replace the
motor on a saw that I'm going to upgrade out of in a few months, but
the saw was free and I need it sometime between *now* and *real soon*,
and I'm not going to have the long green for the new saw until at
least into the new year... soooo........

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

Definition of a teenager: God's punishment for enjoying sex.

I'll add one more vote for the torch on the pulley. If needed you can
put the motor in the freezer for an hour also. This method also makes
easy work of putting your pistons on the rods.

Tim,
BEFORE you start mucking about with the shaft . . . does it have a keyway?
Does the pulley have a keyway? If neither have a keyway, how is the pulley
locked to the shaft?

The point is IF the SHAFT has a keyway, almost everything else can be easily
{relatively ?} solved. The shaft is the problem . . . hardened material and
relatively inaccessible to hand tools. A decent machine shop - or better
yet - a motor repair shop - can cut a keyway. {I wouldn't necessarily have
them turn the shaft - unless it was an *non-standard* size. Will you 'junk'
the saw when you 'up-grade' & keep useful parts? Or sell it off? }

Pulleys are available with keyways already cut, or you could cut them
yourself - by hand. Then you don't need an 'interference fit', or a
'set-screw on a flat'. Either a true 'Woodruff Key' ?} or a bit of square
stock. Isolation from any slight imbalance could be taken care of with one
of those 'sectional-adjustable drive belts'.

Just my 'engineers mind' given free-reign . . .

Regards & Good luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
{Everybody seems to have one of those convenient 'Farm Stores' near-by. I
even see the 'Tractor Supply Store' commercials on the local channels . . .
where's mine? }


"Tim Douglass" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 23:04:00 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , Tim Douglass
wrote:

Now I have in hand a proper cast iron pulley. The shaft and bore both
are supposed to be 5/8", but I still can't get the pulley to go on. So
what do I do next? I'm thinking that I could heat the pulley with my
heat gun then slip it quickly in place, but I'm not sure that will
really work. Otherwise I could buff a few thou. off the shaft - it
seems to be a bit rough, so that might be a good idea anyway.

Agree with Upscale that if you're going to mod anything, it should be the
pulley arbor and not the motor shaft.

Do you have access to a good dial caliper, to measure the OD of the shaft
and
the ID of the arbor? You may have a 16mm motor shaft (0.6299") instead of
5/8".

I went after them with my better dial calipers (the ones I use for
reloading rather then the shop ones) I got .625 for the pulley and
.627 for the shaft. That is probably within tolerance for the
low-budget-no-name Chinese motor maker. The shaft is pretty rough -
like it wasn't final ground after the lathe or something.

If they're close (within a couple thousandths) you can pop the pulley on
by
heating it -- but probably not with a heat gun. Think torch, and heavy
leather
gloves.

That's what I wondered, just how hot I would need to get things.

If they're not close... what you do next depends on what you measured
with the
caliper. If the motor shaft is really supposed to be 5/8 (0.625) and it's
actually 16mm, either you take it back to the point of purchase, or you
get a
16mm pulley. If the pulley is undersize, you could ream or bore it out.

I don't have the equipment to bore out the pulley that precisely, but
wouldn't be hard to take the shaft down those couple thou. with some
silicon carbide paper and a metal backing block against the spinning
shaft. I'll think about it a bit and see what other suggestions crop
up on here.

Thanks all.

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

Warning: Spelling errors in this message are the product of a poor school
system. Pay teachures more than athletes.

On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 13:36:16 GMT, "Ron Magen"
wrote:

Tim,
BEFORE you start mucking about with the shaft . . . does it have a keyway?
Does the pulley have a keyway? If neither have a keyway, how is the pulley
locked to the shaft?

No keyway on the shaft, just a flat. The pulley has a setscrew.

The point is IF the SHAFT has a keyway, almost everything else can be easily
{relatively ?} solved. The shaft is the problem . . . hardened material and
relatively inaccessible to hand tools. A decent machine shop - or better
yet - a motor repair shop - can cut a keyway. {I wouldn't necessarily have
them turn the shaft - unless it was an *non-standard* size. Will you 'junk'
the saw when you 'up-grade' & keep useful parts? Or sell it off? }

The saw is maybe worth $100 with a working motor. I'll probably pull
the motor to build something else and give the saw away. It's an old
10" Rockwell with plastic wheels (and I suspect a rubber frame).

I really want to stay out of a machine shop just because I could
easily drop more getting the pulley on the shaft than the entire saw
is worth.

Since I don't have the motor mounted yet the shaft is very easy to
work on. I'm leaning toward the polish down a bit and see how it
works. Can't get to it until Friday probably, so I'll let everyone
know then.

{Everybody seems to have one of those convenient 'Farm Stores' near-by. I
even see the 'Tractor Supply Store' commercials on the local channels . . .
where's mine? }

I am surrounded by a thousand "hobby farms" of about 5 acres each with
one horse and a small tractor. The farm supply does a big business
selling to the wannabe farmers. Me, I just shop there because they
happen to stock some of this stuff and it's darn hard to find
otherwise. Well, that and the fact they have the lowest price around
on Wranglers.

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

Definition of a teenager: God's punishment for enjoying sex.

Tim,

I'm still of the advice to work on the pulley.

If you insist on taking down the shaft . . . 'fire up' the motor and start
with a medium mill file, then Crocus cloth, etc. Less work & get 'there'
quicker.

Regards & Good Luck,
Ron

"Tim Douglass" wrote
"Ron Magen" wrote:

Tim,
BEFORE you start mucking about with the shaft . . . does it have a
keyway?
Does the pulley have a keyway? If neither have a keyway, how is the
pulley
locked to the shaft?

No keyway on the shaft, just a flat. The pulley has a setscrew.
SNIP
I really want to stay out of a machine shop just because I could
easily drop more getting the pulley on the shaft than the entire saw
is worth.
SNIP

Ron Magen wrote:
Tim,

I'm still of the advice to work on the pulley.

If you insist on taking down the shaft . . . 'fire up' the motor and start
with a medium mill file, then Crocus cloth, etc. Less work & get 'there'
quicker.


The flat instead of the key slot makes that a lot more problematical to
keep it round, though...

Despite my earlier suggestion during which I was assuming there would be
a key, I'm leaning towards the "pulley is better" camp now, too...

--

You'd have to get the pulley glowing slightly (adding about 800 degrees)
to get it that big, then it would cool enough to bind on the shaft
before getting to the correct point.

Pete Stanaitis
-------------------

HeyBub wrote:
Tim Douglass wrote:

I went after them with my better dial calipers (the ones I use for
reloading rather then the shop ones) I got .625 for the pulley and
.627 for the shaft. That is probably within tolerance for the
low-budget-no-name Chinese motor maker. The shaft is pretty rough -
like it wasn't final ground after the lathe or something.



Heat the pully with a propane torch and quickly measure it. Is it up to,
like, 0.630?

If so, you know what to do.

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 13:55:26 -0500, spaco
wrote:

You'd have to get the pulley glowing slightly (adding about 800 degrees)
to get it that big, then it would cool enough to bind on the shaft
before getting to the correct point.

Yeah, that's what I found when I played with it a bit. There isn't
enough expansion for a sweated fit. I'm going to get back to work on
it this next week and take the shaft down a bit more. At this point I
only need to go another thou.

Oh, in case anyone is still wondering, that shaft is *hard*. I didn't
expect that on a cheap Chinese motor.

--
"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

You'd have to get the pulley glowing slightly (adding about 800 degrees)
to get it that big, then it would cool enough to bind on the shaft
before getting to the correct point.

Yeah, that's what I found when I played with it a bit. There isn't
enough expansion for a sweated fit. I'm going to get back to work on
it this next week and take the shaft down a bit more. At this point I
only need to go another thou.

The method we used to put bearings on 3 and 4 inch shafts was to put the
bearing in a bucket of oil.
We would heat the oil as hot as possible then pace the bearing on the shaft.
This method heated the bearing without damage.
You have to be very careful handling the part to prevent getting burned.
Once you start the bearing on the shaft you have to work fast.
The only way we could remove the bearing was with a cutting torch.

Virgle

HeyBub wrote:

Heat the pully with a propane torch and quickly measure it. Is it up to,
like, 0.630?

If so, you know what to do.


Shove it?

;-)